On the Road in Honduras (1/3) HARDtalk

American country has become the main transit centre for drug

traffickers transporting cocaine to the United States.

HARDtalk is on the road in Honduras, a country being torn apart by crime

and violence, much of it fuelled by the drug trade. As much as 75% of

the cocaine in the United States comes through Honduras. It comes by

air and by sea. The US government is now pushing Honduras to crack

down on the narcotics traffickers. In this country, which is driven by

corruption, it is a war on drugs going to prove counter-productive?

Honduras is mosquito-coast. The most remote, sparsely populated

corner of the country. The only way in is by aeroplane or by boat.

Across this expanse of marsh and Forest, the indigenous people speak

their own language and create a living fishing and farming. Here

there is one activity that promises a way out of poverty. Smuggling

cocaine. (Latin music). This is the biggest town in the region. The

Caribbean heat hangs heavy here, so, too, does the taint of drugs. In

recent years, the streets have seen shootings, murders and vendettas

between rival traffickers. The waters off the coast are on the

smuggling route from Colombia and Venezuela. I joined a Honduran Navy

patrol tasked with disrupting the flow of cocaine. Within minutes,

agents bought in a fishing boat heading for Puerto lempira. The

forces get training from American advisers and they get you s

intelligence support. -- US. But the odds are still stacked against

them. This search turned up nothing, but tons of cocaine is getting

through every month. Colonel, how sophisticated are the narcotics

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traffickers that you are dealing Colonel, as you described to me,

the submarines and sophisticated navigation systems that these

narcotics traffickers have, it strikes me that they have more

resources than you do? (speaks Penetrating Honduras' drug-

trafficking gangs is not easy. We journeyed to a remote

rehabilitation centre which can offer a way out for some of the

country's most hardened criminals. The young men here have turned

their backs on their gains. Many face death of their return to their

old neighbourhoods. In his grave, we found an assortment of users,

dealers, middlemen and murderers. - - in this group. One young man, we

call him my lawn, agreed to talk. I would like you to tell me when you

first got involved in the drugs business? TRANSLATION: After first

being a recruit I became a gang member, then I became second-in-

command. Later, I gained control of the gang. Him games, the one who is

control is the one who is most aggressive -- in gangs. I became

unscrupulous, I had no love for anyone, I even hated myself.

old were you when you first killed someone? TRANSLATION: 12. We are

trained to kill? How did you know, as a young boy, how to go about the

business of murdering people? TRANSLATION: It was an instinct

that a work within me. The rage, the hatred I felt within led me to

doing that. Then, like everything else, it became an addiction. Then

it became easy. After being a gang leader here I joined a criminal

grouping Mexico. I was trained to kill, and later that also became

normal to me. Many times I had to do horrendous things. There was a

lot of money, yes, a lot of money, and good women. Good cars, good

hotels. You were part of the MS 13 network. You work in the United

States, he went to Mexico to be trained to be a killer. You work in

Honduras. All of this time, were you aware that there were people at

the top of this network who were using you to help them create this

narcotics trafficking network right across the Americas? TRANSLATION:

Yes, of course. I knew there were people using me, but like everyone

in gangs, everyone in the trafficking movement, we all know

we are being used, but we all want to climb to a higher position to be

like them. Regardless of who you must kill, it doesn't matter, even

if you have to kill someone from your own family. It becomes an

obsession, trying to get to that position. Trying to be someone of a

higher rank. Someone who gives the orders instead of receiving them.

How easy is it going to be for the Honduran authorities, working with

the US, to beat the narcotics traffickers? TRANSLATION: It will

be hard because there are people involved inside the government

itself. If nothing is done within the government it will be useless.

They themselves are the promoters. They cover the big criminals. They

are the big criminals. You make it sound like the drugs traffickers

have almost brought up everything that matters inside Honduras, that

they almost alone the country. Is that how you feel about it?

TRANSLATION: Of course. They have taken control of everything. Narco

trafficking is everywhere. In Congress, in politics, even in

church. This is how it is, it's involved in everything. Narcotics

trafficking has taken control of our country in an extreme way.

There have been recent successes in Honduras' war on the traffickers.

Drug busts are trumpeted in the local media. But the amount of

cocaine passing through the country is still rising. The traffickers

continue to bite off or a cure for their enemies. -- buy off or kill.

This is the new head of the Drug trafficking agency. His predecessor

was killed. Welcome to HARDtalk. In the conflict between the drug

traffickers and the Honduran state, would you except that the drugs

traffickers are winning? TRANSLATION: (speaks Spanish).

TRANSLATION: (speaks Spanish). me tell you something that a

narcotics trafficker told to meet a couple of days ago. I ask him if he

thought the Honduran government will ever take on and defeat their

gains and the traffickers. And he laughed, he said to me "the

traffickers have so much money, they have so much money and so much

power they can buy whoever and whatever they want." if that's true,

how can you beat them? (speaks Americans. They are putting

enormous pressure now on you and your government to do more to stop

the cocaine as it moves up from South America. Do you believe the

Americans themselves could be doing much more in terms of helping you?

consumption, the demand side of this equation. Right now they are

very focused on the supply side, and stopping the supply. I know

there are increasing numbers of armed US drug enforcement agent on

your territory. They have some operating bases. They are

conducting joint operations with arms on your territory. Some people

worry it's becoming a little like a new era of US imperialism. (SPEAKS

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into the tiny settlement. Its airstrip is no more than a clearing

This neglected village has come to symbolise a new phase in the war on

drugs. The river is the main means of transport in this remote corner

off the coast line. You find farmers, fishermen and Traders

going up and down the waters by day and by night. The problem is - so

too do the market traffickers. Two months ago, Honduran forces

launched a night-time raids on suspected traffickers on this

stretch of river. They did not act alone. US military helicopters and

personnel were heavily involved in a joint operation which targeted a

river boat believe to have picked up a stash of drugs from a remote

airstrip. What happened next is the To get an eye witness account, I

paid a visit to the home of a lady who was on the boat which came

under heavy fire. She took a bullet through her and remains seriously

ill. Her son-in-law and two pregnant woman were killed. She

insists all were innocent victims. They were not drugs or because,

simply because she's coming back from a trip down river.

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Tell me what happened on the night The Americans have said they

believe that there was gunfire aimed at their agents and they

believe there was a boat that was trafficking drugs on the river that

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night -- and their agents. Do you For decades, the US military has

maintained a presence in Honduras. Hundreds of American troops are

stationed at this base. Their focus used to be the war against

communism, in neighbouring Nicaragua was. Now it is the war on

drugs. The Americans are using sophisticates in supposed to

intercept the trafficking flights into eastern Honduras. This bussed

on local television left one man dead and three captured -- asked.

In the last month he was struck enforcement agents have killed

suspected traffickers in an operation similar to walk this one

-- American. The crackdown is intense fine but given the recent

history in the country, endemic corruption and persistent

allegations of human rights abuses, as Washington have a reliable

partner? Ambassador, will come to HARDtalk.

Thank you. When you deal with the June government do you believe you

can trust it? -- Honduran. In any government you have different parts

of a government. If you talk about the President, the way you

articulates his goals, many programmes we have seen him put in

place, are things that we see as good for the country and also of

mutual interest for the US. If you ask me about the police force, it

was the one to mince who uncovered how ugly the problems were in the

police force -- the people of Honduras. What we have done his

whole parts of the police force and the units out side it to clean up.

Here you have said how hot it is to imagine people to trust the police?

-- how hard. I have said it is extremely important for the police

force to be trustful and are to -- and to be honest and one to

investigate crimes. You have a country in which the institutions

of government have not worked as well as they should have. They are

fragile. As well as supporting the police, the US is giving extra

support to the Honduran military and to bring its own up on Asians

in the field. I must talk to you about one thing -- its own agents.

In a small remote village where we visited, US and Honduran on agents

fired up on a boat on the river, which is now clear was full of

civilians. Is the US now prepared to say that was a terrible error?

Those are not the facts as we know them. What we understand and was

that a plane with drugs, almost half a time of drugs, came in and

landed, unloaded, but the drugs on a boat to go down the river.

this boat. Let me get there. They push the boat into the river. The

authorities would after it to seize the drugs. -- went after it. They

were fired upon and they were returning the FA. Let me finish.

Having said that, they is a Honduran government investigation

under way as well as well as the US Drug Enforcement Agency

investigation. -- the fire. have your age has not spoken to the

lady we spoke to who was on the boat -- your investigation? They

are two investigations going on right now. The response that -- the

responsibility we feel we have is to understand all the facts of the

case. If you have mentioned somebody who was not in too cute,

by the government or by us, that is information I can take back -- not

been too few. Until we know all the facts of the case it is

inappropriate to comment -- not interviewed. They have suggested

there was no wrongdoing. The context is that last year there

were more than 100 planes come into the country with drugs. The

government's highest roti is to prevent drugs from coming into the

country. -- priority. Injuries and death are not the norm. Thank you

for being on HARDtalk. My pleasure. Honduras's geography is a curse.