Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister of Bangladesh HARDtalk

improve Bangladesh's conditions. Welcome to HARDtalk. It seems that

when you won your big election victory, you had a choice. You

could either stick with the politics as usual in Bangladesh,

which is really about confrontation and political vendetta, or you

could try and heal and unify the country. It seems to me you have

chosen politics as usual. Why? Since we formed government, we

tried to reconcile everybody. Perhaps for the first time, our

people are enjoying their fundamental rights, their

constitutional rights. The opposition and other political

parties, everyone is enjoying the democracy we have ensured. At the

top, people will look at one simple relationship. The one between you

and your predecessor. It's fair to say that you have been enemies for

a long time. When she was in power, she tried to persecute you. Now you

are in power, you are seeking to prosecute her on corruption charges,

seeking to charge her sons, extradite them from abroad. You are

chasing her in the way she chased you. We did not file any case

against her or her sons. It was done by the previous government.

The law will take its own course. It is the continuation of those

investigations. Our judiciary is totally independent. Could you not

to take this opportunity to say that you want to reach out to her?

You would like to bury the differences that have dogged the

country for so long because you would like to heal and reconcile?

Of course we have. Only, you don't see what we have done. We have been

trying to make sure that they should enjoy their fundamental

rights, constitutional rights, democratic rights. It is nothing

personal. Of course not. This is nothing personal. It is completely

ideological. We believe in democracy, secularism, constitution.

There is a very big difference. Their party is a military

dictator's party. The formation of the party is totally different from

mine. Why has the UN Human Rights Council issued a recent report on

your country saying human rights violations continue unabated in

Bangladesh, including extra- judicial death, torture and cruel

treatment in law enforcement custody? It was during the time of

my predecessor. But you are now in charge and have been for 2.5 years.

All the evidence says that the abuses are continuing. They're not

continuing. Once it has been established and during that time,

how many people have been killed? We have reduced it. We have given

training in how to keep human rights. We have been giving them

training. If anybody makes any kind of mistake, immediately we book

them. If that is true, how can 22 people have disappeared this year

alone? Including a significant Labour and trade union activist. He

was tortured and ended up dead. is not true. How many people

disappear from London every year? Political prisoners disappearing? I

would say no-one is taken away from society because of their political

activities. I don't know if he is a political activist or not. Nobody

knows. People do know. They know that he has been involved and

labour rights campaigning for years. Nobody knew. His dead body was

found by our law enforcement agency. Who do you think killed him? I

don't know. Even if he was an activist, we had never heard of him

before. His dead body was found by our police. Suddenly, it appeared

that he was a big leader. You keep talking about the police. Perhaps

the biggest concern in Bangladesh is that you have completely failed

to rein in elements in the military which you used to criticise. You

criticised a unit repeatedly when you were in opposition for human

rights abuses. Now, today, on the euro parity, that unit is still

described by human rights groups as a death squad. It is not true. That

unit was established during the previous government and they killed

people. I opposed it. So why haven't you reigned them in?

you should see the number of deaths. It has been significantly reduced.

We never encouraged them to do this kind of thing. Then why are they

doing it? You are the Prime Minister. Shouldn't you dismantle

the unit if you think it is rotten? It was started in 2004. Once it has

started, it takes time to stop it. You can't stop it overnight. We

have been in power for three years. We significantly reduced it. We are

careful about it. If anybody commits any misdeed, we immediately

punish them. That has never happened before. The question is

one of fulfilling promises. Your Foreign Minister famously said that

when the new government came to power that there would be zero

tolerance for abuses. Right now, you are not operating a zero

tolerance policy. Of course we are. We believe in zero tolerance for

this kind of killing or terrorism. What about zero tolerance of

corruption? Of course zero tolerance. The public in your

country wants to believe in the integrity of government, both in

terms of respecting human rights, but also in terms of fundamental

integrity and honesty amongst public servants. We do not see that

in your government. Listen, long time in our country, military rule

has ruled the country. They indulged in corruption. I can

assure you that we're not involved in corruption. If we were, how

could we have made so much progress in the country? We are keeping our

GDP above 6%. We increased our literacy rate and power generation.

We have increased our food production. Economy is growing and

your figures of growth are impressive but the question is who

is benefiting from the money coming in from your economic progress.

of course not. I'm doing politics for the sake of the people. If that

is true, why has the World Bank lost confidence in your

government's ability to deliver on clean government? The World Bank

wanted to put more than $1 billion of funding into one of the most

important infrastructures your country has seen for many years - a

key bridge project. They withdrew the funding because they had

alerted you government to corruption in the handing out of

contracts, they wanted action and were not satisfied with the action

you talk. Suddenly they raised the issue. I ask them and my Finance

Minister, give us proof. They could not give us any substantial proof

there was corruption. Are you denying that there has been

corruption and the handing out of contracts for this bridge project?

Of course. I'm puzzled because one of the key ministers who stands

accused of involvement in this has just quit their government. Why is

that? Many people accused him. So he resigned. He has done a brave

thing. The question is a simple one. The World Bank sent a letter

outlining their concerns. There were four different itemised

concerns about corruption. You had the opportunity to publish that

letter and tell the Bangladeshi people what went wrong. You have

consistently refused to do that. You can't do that because there is

an embargo. It is not true. It is true. They say they can't publish

but you can. That is the way the World Bank's relationship with

individual states works. You have the right to do it, they don't.

letter does not mean anything. They should have proof and they could

not supply any substantial proof. A letter can't prove that there is

corruption. The opposition says that letter points a finger at you

and other senior members of government. You can point at

anybody. Our Anti-Corruption Commission are investigating. They

asked the World Bank to send any proof. They have denied it. If they

have substantial proof, why have they denied it? I personally want

it. They send two letters to me and that was not my problem. The

previous government, I pointed out this is not my government or my

minister. Twice they did it, they could not prove. It seems a shame

for the Bangladeshi people, many of whom are living in dire poverty,

that your relationship with the World Bank has soured so badly. It

also seems a shame that your relationship with one of the most

respected business leaders in your country, a Nobel laureate, has also

soured so badly. Why did you call You go to Bangladesh, then you will

see. Did I mention his name? I didn't. Why in your mind... Are you

now denying that you see him as a bloodsucker? No. You do? I am

putting the question to you. Why in your mind is that him? You are

misunderstanding me. I am reading the Bangladeshi press. Everybody in

the media believes you referred directly to him when you used this

phrase, "A bloodsucker of the poor". If you want to retract it or you

didn't mean him, that's fine. Listen, I am telling you one thing.

Is it fair, 40% poor people? It is not. How can those poor people

stand by themselves? So the entire model built by the Grameen Bank and

Muhammad Yunus, that has been celebrated around the world as a

way of lifting poor people out of poverty, you say you do not accept

or want it? There should be an inquiry as to how many people come

out of poverty because of it. How many? Poverty reduction is done by

my government. Within three years, we reduced to 10% poverty. So it is

our government. About this bank, it is a government statutory body, a

government established... Is it true you forced Muhammad Yunus out

of his role in the bank after he tried to set up an independent

political party in 2007? That is why you turned against him? That is

when I was in custody, in jail, when he tried to form his political

party. I know. And you have never forgiven him for it. Well, he

failed. He had every opportunity. Why did he form his party? Have you

ever thought about it? I didn't oust him from the bank, he did it

himself. I am telling you. According to the law, he can remain

till he is 60. How old was he? 70 or 71. He is perhaps the most

celebrated Bangladeshi of modern times. I know that. And you tell

him he has to leave the bank because he is too old? That is a

misconception. No. His age did not permit him. But he went to the

court. He filed a case against my government. The Governor-General of

the Bangladeshi bank filed the case. Because of this, he defected. When

you talk about Muhammad Yunus, and others, there is a sense of

animosity. A sense that the divisions in Bangladeshi society

have not healed, which tells me that you have not achieved your aim

of unifying your country. country is unified. If you go

through the result of the election, you can see this. You have seen an

attempted coup in your country in the last 12 months. You have seen

the opposition put hundreds of thousands of people on the street

and say that they may not contest the next election because of

constitutional changes that you have made which they say

fundamentally threaten democracy. How can you tell me that your

country is unified? We amended the constitution that ensured

democratic rights for our people, the fundamental rights of our

people. Because unconstitutional governments cannot continue in the

future. They cannot capture power illegally. That we made sure in the

constitution. We ensured our people's democratic right. Before

we finish, let's stick with this idea that you believe you are on a

long-term trajectory to real economic improvement and progress.

There is one fundamental problem facing your country, which goes far

beyond party politics for some of the other issues we have discussed.

That is, the threat of climate change. Yes. We now have experts in

your own country saying that, and I quote from the Bangladesh Centre

for Advanced Study, more than 30 million Bangladeshis are liable to

lose everything from climate change and rising sea levels in the next

30-50 years. What is your strategic plan to counter that potential

catastrophe? Already we have adopted mitigation plans. We have

adapted... We are now waiting for assistance or foreign funding. In

our own budget, we have already taken many steps for mitigation and

already we have started implementing it. We have a small

fund but we need more support from the world so that those who are

responsible for this climate change, for global warming, those countries

should come forward and assist us. Because we are the worst sufferer.

Our people are the worst sufferers. They should come forward and place

funding so that we can assist our people. You should see what we have

done and what we have started. How to save our people. How to save our

country. We have started building vents. We have started raising our

rivers. We have started building shelters, flood shelters, for our

people. Already in the southern part, work has started. Final

question. You came to office after a substantial election victory with

very high hopes that you really could change Bangladesh. Do you

believe you have changed it? Yes, I believe so. Already, we have an

action plan. A long-term and short- term plan. We have a vision until

2021. Already, we have adapted our programme. This five to six year

plan for economic development. We have already started implementing

it. We have a mission to develop the country. I believe only I can

make change for the poor people of our country. I do politics to not

only bring change to our people's lives but also to make sure that

our people should get their basic needs, fundamental rights, so for

that we are working. I believe only I can do it. My party. That has

prompted another question. "Only I can do it", you say. Does that mean

you intend to run again? Some Bangladeshis say it is time for a

generational change. For all the long-term struggle between you and

your parties, the best thing for Bangladesh in the next election

would be for both of you to leave the stage and introduce a new

generation of leaders. Do you want to run again? Of course I do. If my