Browse content similar to Tariq al Hashimi - Vice President of Iraq. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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all day. The conflict in Syria is fuelling | :00:08. | :00:15. | |
sectarion tension across the Middle East. | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
It is no coincidence that neighbouring Iraq's chronic | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
security crisis has deepened in the last year and at the heart of the | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
right's instability, my guest today, Tarek al Hashimi. He is normally | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
the vice-president of the country but, right now, add the fact of | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
fugitive in Turkey, being tried in absentia when charges are | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
sponsoring death squads in Iraq. What hope is there for justice or | :00:46. | :00:56. | |
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peace in the region in the grip of -- a de facto fugitive. Tarek al | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
Hashimi, will come to HARDtalk. -- welcome to HARDtalk. The thank you. | :01:26. | :01:33. | |
You are officially vice-president of Iraq but, as I have just said, | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
at the fact of fugitive from justice from your own courts system. | :01:39. | :01:49. | |
:01:49. | :01:49. | ||
How do you explain what is happening to you? -- a de facto. | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
Thank you. I am vice-president but am being deprived of my normal | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
authorities. I am still officially the Vice President of Iraq. I am | :02:01. | :02:11. | |
:02:11. | :02:12. | ||
not a fugitive. I left my country officially with the authority of | :02:12. | :02:22. | |
:02:22. | :02:23. | ||
civil officio Sion. -- with the authority of the several of us. I | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
want to return to get a fair trial in a fair court. I want to present | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
myself to the court, providing a fair trial is provided. But the | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
Iraqi authorities insist there is indeed a fair trial and that is | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
already happening. You are not in the dock because you refuse to | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
return. It has been televised. We have seen the defence and | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
prosecution going through various motions. Why do you not, as vice- | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
president, a man who swore to uphold the Iraqi constitution and | :03:01. | :03:11. | |
:03:11. | :03:14. | ||
judicial system, go home and face that system yourself? The charges | :03:14. | :03:23. | |
are politically motivated and have been fabricated. I lost three | :03:23. | :03:30. | |
siblings, two brothers and one sisters, -- one sister, for one | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
reason and that was the political process. In 2011, I received the | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
same message, that I should leave the country and leave the political | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
process or I would see what was going to happen to me. Within a | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
couple of days, this case was fabricated, my bodyguards were | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
arrested and this has been broadcast did over the Iraqi TV | :04:02. | :04:10. | |
channels. I could stay at this stage that Article Number 93 of the | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
constitution and offered me immunity. If there are any charges, | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
including the charges that they are talking about, the court | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
specialised in dealing with my taste is the supreme court, not the | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
crime court. -- my case. There is a constitutional violations. On top | :04:32. | :04:42. | |
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of that, Article Number 55 of the law, give me a legitimate trial. | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
Transfer the case. If I am not happy about the trial, the accused | :04:50. | :04:58. | |
person, still in opposition, to request to transfer the case. | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
understand you are making technical arguments. Let's get down to the | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
basic facts. The charges against you are very grave. They suggest | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
that you orchestrated, sponsored and financed death squads running | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
from 2006 until the very recent past. It is alleged that a host of | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
your own security team were involved in assassinations of | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
senior Shi'ite officials and many other people as well. Given the | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
gravity of those crimes and given that we know the court case will be | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
conducted under the full glare of publicity, we did not be the best | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
thing for you, and, more particularly, the best thing for | :05:42. | :05:52. | |
:05:52. | :05:53. | ||
Iraq, for you to go home and face the court? The accused person | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
should receive and should be offered at least as security. Where | :05:59. | :06:09. | |
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is my security? I have my guards being arrested. Others have left | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
the country. I do not have immunity or protection. I am a vice- | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
president. I am not a normal citizen. Where is my protection? | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
With respect, some of your own senior security team have been in | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
court, telling the court that you gave them thousands of dollars to | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
organise and carry out assassinations and we have had | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
chapter and verse from your former deputy security chief which has | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
described how you ordered the assassination of the son of a Sunni | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
cleric because he went off message, given all of the evidence in the | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
courtroom, whatever your desires for protection, isn't it imperative | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
that you stand in the dock and face the Iraqi court and the Iraqi | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
people? This is why I am asking the United Nations to get involved in | :07:03. | :07:13. | |
:07:13. | :07:15. | ||
my case and try to take all of these allegations. Don't forget | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
that a lot of this has been ascertained under severe torture. | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
One of my bodyguards was killed by torture. For the record, the | :07:26. | :07:34. | |
authorities say he died of kidney failure. You cannot know. No. The | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
gentleman is a 33 years old. What sort of kidney failure? He is very | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
active and healthy. I checked his record. I know him very well. | :07:46. | :07:56. | |
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Believe it or not, until now, the Ministry of Health, his attempt to | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
issue a death certificate, they cannot tell why he died. He died | :08:03. | :08:10. | |
from severe torture. Neither of us can actually know that. What you | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
have not done well the cause of this interview is answer the basic | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
question, did you run death squads and are you responsible for the | :08:19. | :08:28. | |
:08:29. | :08:29. | ||
deaths of many Shia people within your own country? No way. I would | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
start a revenge for those who killed my family, who killed my | :08:34. | :08:43. | |
sister, who killed my general, killed other people. I did not. | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
This case has been left pending according to an instruction. I do | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
not make any sort of protest. If I do desire in fact to kill anybody | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
from Iraq, or outside Iraq, I should start killing the people he | :09:00. | :09:10. | |
:09:10. | :09:13. | ||
killed my family. You have mentioned $1,000, there was a trial | :09:13. | :09:22. | |
in August, they said I have paid them 200 US dollars just to take | :09:22. | :09:32. | |
:09:32. | :09:39. | ||
the risk. Their salaries range from $750 up to $1,500. A final question | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
on the detail. Explain to me how come there were silences that your | :09:47. | :09:57. | |
home when -- pistol silencers at your home and when it was raided. | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
It is a pistol that cannot be silenced. There was a technical | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
problem. They are an awkward position. They cannot in fact tell. | :10:08. | :10:17. | |
This is one of the major loopholes and the trial. The trial is | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
supposed to continue in the next few weeks but you will not be there. | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
Because you are such an important figure, the most important Sunni | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
Arab member of the government inside Iraq, currently outside Iraq, | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
have you spoken to the Americans about your current situation? Are | :10:35. | :10:45. | |
:10:45. | :10:46. | ||
the encouragingly to go home? If they did? What? What sort of | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
message do they have? We know what sort of message. Not long ago, Joe | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
Biden issued a general statement on Iraq saying he wanted to see the | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
leaders of all the different sectarian groupings, the different | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
confessional groupings coming together to work together for the | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
good of Iraq. The Americans are worried about the crisis in Iraq | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
today. They clearly believe that you sitting in Istanbul is a part | :11:13. | :11:22. | |
of the problem. This message is specifically not to me. This is to | :11:22. | :11:32. | |
:11:32. | :11:37. | ||
another man's who made the political process fragile. He | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
monopolised power. He has caused problems. He maintained the | :11:43. | :11:50. | |
corruption. This message from Joe Biden is not directed towards me, | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
it is directed to the Prime Minister. I have a feeling we are | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
about to get involved in a circuitous argument. In the end, | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
each side can blame the other for creating the more a sectarian | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
hatred. You have just condemned the actions of the Shia Prime Minister | :12:12. | :12:22. | |
:12:22. | :12:23. | ||
of your country. He has been called a number of names, including a Shia | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
Saddam Hussein. Recently, it was said that he was running a harsh, | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
backward dictatorship without a shred of wisdom. If you in the | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
Sunni community are seeing the sort of things about the Prime Minister, | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
you yourself are ratcheting up the sectarian tensions and hatred in | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
your own country and that is irresponsible. Could you just | :12:51. | :13:00. | |
highlight what sort of behaviour and conduct I have adopted or were | :13:00. | :13:10. | |
:13:10. | :13:11. | ||
the past six years? I have been in the peaceful process. The most | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
obvious one, the one we have discussed. You refused to go home | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
to face justice, claiming that the justice system is loaded against | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
you. You are the vice-president and have sworn oath of loyalty to the | :13:25. | :13:32. | |
state. If you were serious about your own olds, you would want to go | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
back and be part of the system, albeit as a defendant in a trial. | :13:37. | :13:45. | |
am ready, provided I am guaranteed, by the international community and | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
the United Nations affair court and enough protection is rendered to | :13:52. | :14:01. | |
myself and my bodyguards are released from unbelievable torture. | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
I am driving at the wider question. You made your point about your | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
satisfaction of the way the trial is being conducted. The wider | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
question, there was supposed to be a unity approach to governance and | :14:20. | :14:27. | |
policy in Iraq after the 2010 election but, as I understand, co- | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
operation has been withdrawn from the Government's insure exile in | :14:32. | :14:42. | |
:14:42. | :14:43. | ||
Turkey. Your communications minister and the Sunni committee | :14:43. | :14:53. | |
:14:53. | :14:55. | ||
are withdrawn their co-operation He should not blame us for that. -- | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
you. The agreement create the foundations of the current | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
government, based on certain criteria. The starting with power- | :15:04. | :15:14. | |
:15:14. | :15:21. | ||
sharing. There was a coup against power-sharing and power | :15:21. | :15:28. | |
consolidation. He managed to turn his eyes blind on his publications | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
according to an agreement. Should we be blamed because we're not co- | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
operating with the Prime Minister? Tom Lee we were talking about the | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
relationship between them? And Biden to take the relationship | :15:45. | :15:55. | |
:15:55. | :15:58. | ||
between the central government and the other group? The hectic | :15:58. | :16:06. | |
relationship. They were trying to come -- can find the problem | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
between the Shi'ite Sen the sore knees. It comes in the context of | :16:11. | :16:20. | |
the even worse chaos we see in Syria. All the intelligence | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
suggests that there are increasing flows of arms, weapons and militant | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
fighters crossing between Iraq and Syria. Militant Sunni fight is | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
going into Syria from Iraq and others coming back the other way. | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
We see a rise in Al-Qaeda related violence inside Iraq, particularly | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
this summer. Is it not incumbent upon you as a senior Sunni | :16:45. | :16:54. | |
political figure to calm things down? To try and figure out a way | :16:54. | :17:04. | |
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to reach out? We tried our best. We spent months in talks trying to | :17:05. | :17:15. | |
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reach some sort of compromise. I have been involved before this | :17:15. | :17:25. | |
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crisis. I tried to bring some sort of joint understanding destabilise | :17:27. | :17:35. | |
the political process and pushed things ahead. And to concentrate on | :17:35. | :17:44. | |
serving our people end enhancing economic development. But | :17:44. | :17:53. | |
regardless, we have reached an impasse. He keeps promising and at | :17:53. | :18:02. | |
the end of the day, he delivers nothing. So he has lost the | :18:02. | :18:12. | |
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confidence of politicians in this government. We have made that | :18:13. | :18:22. | |
message very clear. -- you have be. We're open-minded and are prepared | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
to sit down again and look for any opportunities to put an end to this | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
political stagnation. I weather -- wonder whether you are being used | :18:32. | :18:42. | |
:18:42. | :18:45. | ||
as a political pawn in Turkey. Al Nallet key still has a deal of | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
sympathy with the Assad regime. The Turks clearly what a start gone. It | :18:51. | :19:01. | |
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seems quite useful for Turkey to use you in their original game. -- | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
their regional game. I'm not an instrument in any party. I'm here | :19:10. | :19:20. | |
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in Turkey as a politician. I have my own opinions about what is going | :19:25. | :19:35. | |
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on in Turkey but I'm not a part of any body's agenda. Do you think the | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
chaos we see is inevitably going to further destabilise what is already | :19:43. | :19:53. | |
:19:53. | :20:04. | ||
a deeply fragile situation in your country? I don't want to follow the | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
people. They have their sectarian limitations. I think Syrian | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
citizens are interested in getting what they are legitimate they | :20:16. | :20:26. | |
deserve. It is not a sectarian civil war between the Syrian people | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
and the Assad regime. This is why are we should be supportive of the | :20:32. | :20:42. | |
initiative taken by those people and try to assist them in changing | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
their dictatorship and turning their autocratic -- autocratic | :20:49. | :20:59. | |
:20:59. | :21:00. | ||
regime in to a democratic one. As you are fully aware, the previous | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
regime has been toppled. We were unable to conclude the second phase | :21:05. | :21:15. | |
:21:15. | :21:17. | ||
of the change - establishing a regime of alternatives. You say we | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
should not characterise what is happening in Syria as a sectarian | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
war, but there is no question that inside Iraq, sectarian tensions and | :21:25. | :21:32. | |
hatreds are at the heart of so many of the problems we have discussed. | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
Do you believe now that the only way forward for Iraq is full | :21:37. | :21:47. | |
:21:47. | :21:52. | ||
autonomy? Is that what must happen in your view? We do have a problem | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
about the style of rule in my country. We have a constitution and | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
a political process and everyone is interested in keeping Iraq United. | :22:04. | :22:14. | |
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In addition, there is a legitimate Rights for them to turn themselves | :22:16. | :22:25. | |
into a region. This is a constitutional desire. I am not | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
afraid of the country being broken into two part. To not relate this | :22:33. | :22:42. | |
subject to the sectarian strife. There is currently a problem and it | :22:42. | :22:52. | |
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is related to the way of governing Iraq. When he leaves power, and it | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
used to the criteria of the political process, there will be no | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
fear about the unity of Iraq. want to put a final thought to you | :23:14. | :23:23. | |
about the Americans. America were in your country for so long and I | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
wonder if you believe they were that the American administration | :23:25. | :23:32. | |
can afford to wash their hands of Iraq or authorities likely to be a | :23:32. | :23:42. | |
damaging strategy in the long run. I am upset when the hero American | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
officials saying the US has have felt their mission and left Iraq | :23:46. | :23:56. | |
:23:56. | :23:57. | ||
stable and democratic and independent. This is false. I think | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
the US and Western countries should fulfil their commitment, keep | :24:02. | :24:07. |