Tariq al Hashimi - Vice President of Iraq HARDtalk


Tariq al Hashimi - Vice President of Iraq

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all day. The conflict in Syria is fuelling

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sectarion tension across the Middle East.

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It is no coincidence that neighbouring Iraq's chronic

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security crisis has deepened in the last year and at the heart of the

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right's instability, my guest today, Tarek al Hashimi. He is normally

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the vice-president of the country but, right now, add the fact of

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fugitive in Turkey, being tried in absentia when charges are

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sponsoring death squads in Iraq. What hope is there for justice or

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peace in the region in the grip of -- a de facto fugitive. Tarek al

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Hashimi, will come to HARDtalk. -- welcome to HARDtalk. The thank you.

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You are officially vice-president of Iraq but, as I have just said,

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at the fact of fugitive from justice from your own courts system.

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How do you explain what is happening to you? -- a de facto.

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Thank you. I am vice-president but am being deprived of my normal

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authorities. I am still officially the Vice President of Iraq. I am

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not a fugitive. I left my country officially with the authority of

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civil officio Sion. -- with the authority of the several of us. I

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want to return to get a fair trial in a fair court. I want to present

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myself to the court, providing a fair trial is provided. But the

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Iraqi authorities insist there is indeed a fair trial and that is

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already happening. You are not in the dock because you refuse to

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return. It has been televised. We have seen the defence and

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prosecution going through various motions. Why do you not, as vice-

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president, a man who swore to uphold the Iraqi constitution and

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judicial system, go home and face that system yourself? The charges

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are politically motivated and have been fabricated. I lost three

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siblings, two brothers and one sisters, -- one sister, for one

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reason and that was the political process. In 2011, I received the

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same message, that I should leave the country and leave the political

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process or I would see what was going to happen to me. Within a

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couple of days, this case was fabricated, my bodyguards were

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arrested and this has been broadcast did over the Iraqi TV

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channels. I could stay at this stage that Article Number 93 of the

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constitution and offered me immunity. If there are any charges,

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including the charges that they are talking about, the court

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specialised in dealing with my taste is the supreme court, not the

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crime court. -- my case. There is a constitutional violations. On top

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of that, Article Number 55 of the law, give me a legitimate trial.

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Transfer the case. If I am not happy about the trial, the accused

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person, still in opposition, to request to transfer the case.

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understand you are making technical arguments. Let's get down to the

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basic facts. The charges against you are very grave. They suggest

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that you orchestrated, sponsored and financed death squads running

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from 2006 until the very recent past. It is alleged that a host of

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your own security team were involved in assassinations of

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senior Shi'ite officials and many other people as well. Given the

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gravity of those crimes and given that we know the court case will be

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conducted under the full glare of publicity, we did not be the best

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thing for you, and, more particularly, the best thing for

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Iraq, for you to go home and face the court? The accused person

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should receive and should be offered at least as security. Where

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is my security? I have my guards being arrested. Others have left

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the country. I do not have immunity or protection. I am a vice-

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president. I am not a normal citizen. Where is my protection?

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With respect, some of your own senior security team have been in

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court, telling the court that you gave them thousands of dollars to

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organise and carry out assassinations and we have had

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chapter and verse from your former deputy security chief which has

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described how you ordered the assassination of the son of a Sunni

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cleric because he went off message, given all of the evidence in the

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courtroom, whatever your desires for protection, isn't it imperative

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that you stand in the dock and face the Iraqi court and the Iraqi

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people? This is why I am asking the United Nations to get involved in

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my case and try to take all of these allegations. Don't forget

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that a lot of this has been ascertained under severe torture.

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One of my bodyguards was killed by torture. For the record, the

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authorities say he died of kidney failure. You cannot know. No. The

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gentleman is a 33 years old. What sort of kidney failure? He is very

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active and healthy. I checked his record. I know him very well.

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Believe it or not, until now, the Ministry of Health, his attempt to

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issue a death certificate, they cannot tell why he died. He died

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from severe torture. Neither of us can actually know that. What you

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have not done well the cause of this interview is answer the basic

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question, did you run death squads and are you responsible for the

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deaths of many Shia people within your own country? No way. I would

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start a revenge for those who killed my family, who killed my

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sister, who killed my general, killed other people. I did not.

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This case has been left pending according to an instruction. I do

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not make any sort of protest. If I do desire in fact to kill anybody

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from Iraq, or outside Iraq, I should start killing the people he

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killed my family. You have mentioned $1,000, there was a trial

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in August, they said I have paid them 200 US dollars just to take

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the risk. Their salaries range from $750 up to $1,500. A final question

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on the detail. Explain to me how come there were silences that your

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home when -- pistol silencers at your home and when it was raided.

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It is a pistol that cannot be silenced. There was a technical

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problem. They are an awkward position. They cannot in fact tell.

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This is one of the major loopholes and the trial. The trial is

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supposed to continue in the next few weeks but you will not be there.

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Because you are such an important figure, the most important Sunni

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Arab member of the government inside Iraq, currently outside Iraq,

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have you spoken to the Americans about your current situation? Are

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the encouragingly to go home? If they did? What? What sort of

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message do they have? We know what sort of message. Not long ago, Joe

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Biden issued a general statement on Iraq saying he wanted to see the

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leaders of all the different sectarian groupings, the different

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confessional groupings coming together to work together for the

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good of Iraq. The Americans are worried about the crisis in Iraq

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today. They clearly believe that you sitting in Istanbul is a part

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of the problem. This message is specifically not to me. This is to

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another man's who made the political process fragile. He

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monopolised power. He has caused problems. He maintained the

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corruption. This message from Joe Biden is not directed towards me,

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it is directed to the Prime Minister. I have a feeling we are

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about to get involved in a circuitous argument. In the end,

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each side can blame the other for creating the more a sectarian

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hatred. You have just condemned the actions of the Shia Prime Minister

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of your country. He has been called a number of names, including a Shia

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Saddam Hussein. Recently, it was said that he was running a harsh,

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backward dictatorship without a shred of wisdom. If you in the

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Sunni community are seeing the sort of things about the Prime Minister,

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you yourself are ratcheting up the sectarian tensions and hatred in

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your own country and that is irresponsible. Could you just

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highlight what sort of behaviour and conduct I have adopted or were

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the past six years? I have been in the peaceful process. The most

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obvious one, the one we have discussed. You refused to go home

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to face justice, claiming that the justice system is loaded against

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you. You are the vice-president and have sworn oath of loyalty to the

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state. If you were serious about your own olds, you would want to go

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back and be part of the system, albeit as a defendant in a trial.

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am ready, provided I am guaranteed, by the international community and

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the United Nations affair court and enough protection is rendered to

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myself and my bodyguards are released from unbelievable torture.

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I am driving at the wider question. You made your point about your

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satisfaction of the way the trial is being conducted. The wider

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question, there was supposed to be a unity approach to governance and

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policy in Iraq after the 2010 election but, as I understand, co-

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operation has been withdrawn from the Government's insure exile in

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Turkey. Your communications minister and the Sunni committee

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are withdrawn their co-operation He should not blame us for that. --

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you. The agreement create the foundations of the current

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government, based on certain criteria. The starting with power-

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sharing. There was a coup against power-sharing and power

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consolidation. He managed to turn his eyes blind on his publications

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according to an agreement. Should we be blamed because we're not co-

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operating with the Prime Minister? Tom Lee we were talking about the

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relationship between them? And Biden to take the relationship

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between the central government and the other group? The hectic

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relationship. They were trying to come -- can find the problem

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between the Shi'ite Sen the sore knees. It comes in the context of

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the even worse chaos we see in Syria. All the intelligence

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suggests that there are increasing flows of arms, weapons and militant

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fighters crossing between Iraq and Syria. Militant Sunni fight is

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going into Syria from Iraq and others coming back the other way.

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We see a rise in Al-Qaeda related violence inside Iraq, particularly

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this summer. Is it not incumbent upon you as a senior Sunni

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political figure to calm things down? To try and figure out a way

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to reach out? We tried our best. We spent months in talks trying to

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reach some sort of compromise. I have been involved before this

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crisis. I tried to bring some sort of joint understanding destabilise

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the political process and pushed things ahead. And to concentrate on

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serving our people end enhancing economic development. But

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regardless, we have reached an impasse. He keeps promising and at

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the end of the day, he delivers nothing. So he has lost the

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confidence of politicians in this government. We have made that

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message very clear. -- you have be. We're open-minded and are prepared

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to sit down again and look for any opportunities to put an end to this

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political stagnation. I weather -- wonder whether you are being used

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as a political pawn in Turkey. Al Nallet key still has a deal of

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sympathy with the Assad regime. The Turks clearly what a start gone. It

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seems quite useful for Turkey to use you in their original game. --

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their regional game. I'm not an instrument in any party. I'm here

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in Turkey as a politician. I have my own opinions about what is going

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on in Turkey but I'm not a part of any body's agenda. Do you think the

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chaos we see is inevitably going to further destabilise what is already

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a deeply fragile situation in your country? I don't want to follow the

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people. They have their sectarian limitations. I think Syrian

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citizens are interested in getting what they are legitimate they

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deserve. It is not a sectarian civil war between the Syrian people

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and the Assad regime. This is why are we should be supportive of the

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initiative taken by those people and try to assist them in changing

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their dictatorship and turning their autocratic -- autocratic

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regime in to a democratic one. As you are fully aware, the previous

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regime has been toppled. We were unable to conclude the second phase

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of the change - establishing a regime of alternatives. You say we

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should not characterise what is happening in Syria as a sectarian

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war, but there is no question that inside Iraq, sectarian tensions and

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hatreds are at the heart of so many of the problems we have discussed.

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Do you believe now that the only way forward for Iraq is full

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autonomy? Is that what must happen in your view? We do have a problem

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about the style of rule in my country. We have a constitution and

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a political process and everyone is interested in keeping Iraq United.

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In addition, there is a legitimate Rights for them to turn themselves

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into a region. This is a constitutional desire. I am not

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afraid of the country being broken into two part. To not relate this

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subject to the sectarian strife. There is currently a problem and it

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is related to the way of governing Iraq. When he leaves power, and it

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used to the criteria of the political process, there will be no

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fear about the unity of Iraq. want to put a final thought to you

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about the Americans. America were in your country for so long and I

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wonder if you believe they were that the American administration

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can afford to wash their hands of Iraq or authorities likely to be a

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damaging strategy in the long run. I am upset when the hero American

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officials saying the US has have felt their mission and left Iraq

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stable and democratic and independent. This is false. I think

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the US and Western countries should fulfil their commitment, keep

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