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were unfairly treated. Now it is time for HARDtalk. | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
If football is the world's global sport then sitting atop that, year | :00:10. | :00:16. | |
after year, is the English Premier League. No other league has the | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
money or the international following that has transformed it | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
into the biggest of the lot. But as the new season gets underway, is | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
football's health a cause for rejoicing? Or does its enormous | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
wealth contrast with a poverty of good behaviour? HARDtalk's Tim | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
Franks speaks to Gordon Taylor. What does the boss of the players' | :00:36. | :00:46. | |
:00:46. | :01:11. | ||
Will come too hot Matt. Are you surprised by the backlash there has | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
been against football since the Olympics? Are not. I expected it. | :01:18. | :01:28. | |
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We had some problems last year and problems with lyricism. But it has | :01:29. | :01:37. | |
been a long time since the problems of the 80s with health and safety. | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
The game has moved on a great deal. It is the price of football has to | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
pay for being so much in the spotlight. The players have become | :01:50. | :01:57. | |
celebrities. When they step out of line, there is a very big torch on | :01:57. | :02:07. | |
:02:07. | :02:08. | ||
them on and off the field. Is it justified? There is a perception at | :02:08. | :02:17. | |
times that you forget. In the replace you never have any problems | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
and others to always seemed to be in trouble. -- who always seemed. | :02:26. | :02:35. | |
Should footballers be role models? The Olympics were really uplifting | :02:35. | :02:45. | |
:02:45. | :02:47. | ||
but that is once every four years and for two weeks. Football is | :02:47. | :02:57. | |
woven into the tapestry of our social history. We have good times | :02:57. | :03:07. | |
:03:07. | :03:10. | ||
and also bad times. But it is more than personal bad times? | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
fairness with the Olympics, it was brilliant to see the inclusive | :03:13. | :03:21. | |
nature of the opening ceremony. The still had your problems like with | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
Badminton. But those were the exception. How much do you have | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
sympathy with the view of a sports writer Mike James Lawton who said | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
that -- said, "Lets hope Arafat's of overpaid footballers have been | :03:40. | :03:48. | |
watching the games." any sympathy with that? No. He makes his living | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
from watching football, it has always been there for him. He has | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
written books on football. So he knows what he's talking about. | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
does, but he is at times like myself. Sometimes, you forget that | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
even in his day, there were the characters who did not get lone | :04:12. | :04:22. | |
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don't like the modern media dollars. -- lampooned. If anything, Tommy | :04:27. | :04:37. | |
:04:37. | :04:42. | ||
Smith and Norman Hunter were idolised. I do understand the | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
contrast with the sporting nature of the Olympics and football can | :04:45. | :04:54. | |
learn from that. We can't be in an ivory tower and not see the effect. | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
But we saw around may when football came together because football is | :05:01. | :05:10. | |
very tribal. At times, I have referred to problems in the 80s | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
when that blew up and everyone said, we will never deal with hooliganism | :05:15. | :05:25. | |
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and racism. We have worked at that. Players, staff, her crowds all got | :05:34. | :05:44. | |
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behind Fabrice Muamba in support. People have not forgotten the | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
affair with John Terry and the allegation that he racially abused | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
a black player. There was a criminal trial a few months ago and | :05:58. | :06:06. | |
he was found not guilty. He is currently facing a misconduct | :06:06. | :06:16. | |
:06:16. | :06:19. | ||
charge for racist behaviour. What do you think should happen to him? | :06:19. | :06:29. | |
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I don't want to comment. They have a new code of conduct now, but on | :06:30. | :06:40. | |
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the other hand, you have to be careful with litigation. It was | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
almost ironic that the Crown prosecution Service chose to say, | :06:44. | :06:54. | |
:06:54. | :06:57. | ||
hold off. I feel we should deal with these matters. Often the | :06:57. | :07:07. | |
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penalties are much worse than any court imposes. I want to get to the | :07:10. | :07:20. | |
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ways Suarez. The fine is so much heavier than any court imposes. | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
Piano asking specifically about John Terry. He was selected to play | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
for England last week. Roy Hodgson said he had no interest in a debate | :07:31. | :07:41. | |
:07:41. | :07:41. | ||
as to whether he should be plain. The EU agree it is immaterial | :07:41. | :07:49. | |
whether he be selected now for England? I think it is a very | :07:49. | :07:59. | |
:07:59. | :08:02. | ||
difficult one. I think taking the captaincy of him was something they | :08:02. | :08:12. | |
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need to do. When you have seen how protracted that process became | :08:16. | :08:26. | |
because they all got involved, suddenly, the main court did not | :08:26. | :08:35. | |
find him guilty. It has impacted on the judgement of the manager | :08:36. | :08:45. | |
:08:46. | :08:50. | ||
because they took the captaincy of them. I'm asking what your view is. | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
It is difficult to take a player out of 18 no matter what the | :08:56. | :09:06. | |
:09:06. | :09:10. | ||
charges. -- out of a team. This is a charge of races them. I remember | :09:10. | :09:20. | |
:09:20. | :09:23. | ||
when there was a charge against Alan Smith. In relation to the | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
crowd. He was left out of the team as a result. Then he was found not | :09:28. | :09:38. | |
:09:38. | :09:41. | ||
guilty. The quality of justice is very hard to get right. What should | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
happen to players found guilty of racism? It -- it depends on | :09:48. | :09:58. | |
:09:58. | :10:00. | ||
circumstances of the particular case. There was something we would | :10:00. | :10:10. | |
:10:10. | :10:13. | ||
like to highlight in the contract with Barcelona. Gross misconduct | :10:13. | :10:22. | |
worthy of termination. We have rolled out education lessons and | :10:22. | :10:32. | |
:10:32. | :10:32. | ||
worked with various organisations. If you're talking about terminating | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
contracts, if John Terry is found guilty of gross misconduct, should | :10:37. | :10:44. | |
he play football for Chelsea again? That his side had the poetical | :10:44. | :10:54. | |
:10:54. | :10:59. | ||
question. It is a reasonable one. - - that is a hypothetical question. | :10:59. | :11:09. | |
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Everybody knows his defence was not beyond reasonable doubt. That is on | :11:15. | :11:25. | |
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a balance of probabilities. We had 80 process of law and that was | :11:30. | :11:40. | |
:11:40. | :11:42. | ||
taken up by the Crown prosecution Service. It is not for me while the | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
process is going on to say what I think should happen. Let me I'll | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
ask you about money. There was Suarez was found guilty. We saw how | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
difficult it was. He was still maintaining his innocence. That | :12:03. | :12:12. | |
caused a big problem. I would like to move on. If you don't want to | :12:12. | :12:22. | |
:12:22. | :12:25. | ||
accept it, you can appeal against it. Do you think -- de had any | :12:25. | :12:35. | |
:12:35. | :12:35. | ||
sympathy at all with people who love the game who say that | :12:35. | :12:42. | |
footballers are simply paid too much these days? Every labourer his | :12:42. | :12:52. | |
:12:52. | :13:01. | ||
work has higher. -- his higher. It is about supply and demand. You | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
lose 50 players Priya with permanent injury. Out of the 600 he | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
joined the club at 16, 500 will be out by the tape -- age they -- time | :13:13. | :13:23. | |
:13:23. | :13:30. | ||
there are 21. It would be ideal if they were role models. Let me ask | :13:30. | :13:37. | |
you about this, you say every labourer is worth his or her wage. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
The point that is made more and more the club owners is that it is | :13:42. | :13:52. | |
:13:52. | :13:55. | ||
unsustainable. And paying out 80% of the club's income on wages is | :13:55. | :14:02. | |
unsustainable. Many football clubs are going to the wall over this. | :14:02. | :14:12. | |
:14:12. | :14:13. | ||
Footballers used to be under a maximum wage. They weren't able to | :14:13. | :14:23. | |
:14:23. | :14:28. | ||
We are in favour of the financial fair-play rules. Satellite | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
television has come in. It offered amazing money compared to what | :14:32. | :14:41. | |
happened in the past. Football players are getting a lot less to | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
what they were getting. Then the satellite television people came in. | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
You have seen the power of television and the power of | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
football. They have been good for each other. The Premier League gets | :14:54. | :15:04. | |
criticised. At times in England it is really strange. In America, they | :15:04. | :15:11. | |
would be looked up to. Let me ask you specifically about broadcast | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
rights. The latest three-year deal, just within the UK, has seen it go | :15:17. | :15:27. | |
:15:27. | :15:30. | ||
up nearly 80%. Should those wagers... Should that increased go | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
into their wages? The game is about players. That is what the crowds | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
and their four. Decried is there to support their club. If they feel | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
like their club is going to the wall... I am not inventing does. | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
Why should film stars... Why should Elton John get $500,000 for a | :15:53. | :16:00. | |
concert? The thing that is concerning... I will quote it to | :16:00. | :16:08. | |
you. It is about the journey men, for all players, the mediocre | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
football players who are being turned into instant multi- | :16:11. | :16:21. | |
:16:21. | :16:25. | ||
millionaires. I am not talking about the lower divisions. England, | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
50 million population, more full- time clubs, more full-time players | :16:31. | :16:41. | |
:16:41. | :16:43. | ||
- we should be proud of that. Morgan, the owner of Wolverhampton, | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
he says, mid- ranking on lower my dragging clubs of mind 60% of their | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
turn over of wages is not sustainable. What are they thinking | :16:54. | :17:03. | |
of? It is not fair to need to be critical. I cannot tell Steve | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
Morgan about how he should run the football club. It is not just him. | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
They are managing to survive, the income is going up. Manchester | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
United work out about 60% of their income on wages. And yet they are | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
so highly valued, their stock market price goes up and up. | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
Because they are successful. Do you have any sympathy to the idea that | :17:32. | :17:42. | |
:17:42. | :17:46. | ||
some sort -- to some sort of salary cap. We have the sympathy... We | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
have sympathy to financial propriety. We have spent three | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
decades dealing with the likes of Portsmouth to have not been handled | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
well financially. Clubs over commit. That is the nature of sport, to | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
speculate, to dream, to think you can get up there. From that point | :18:07. | :18:17. | |
:18:17. | :18:17. | ||
of view, we don't want to see clubs going into administration. I don't | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
think any young player should be denied and his ability to | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
capitalise on his talent. One thing that erasures fans, especially | :18:26. | :18:34. | |
these days... Or the media and everybody liked to call it. You | :18:34. | :18:44. | |
:18:44. | :18:45. | ||
join the crowd? One of the antics that enrages France, more these | :18:45. | :18:55. | |
days than any other day... Is the culture of shooting. What can you | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
do about cheating, about diving, about this epidemic of feigning | :19:00. | :19:10. | |
injury on the pitch? We work with the FA, the Premier Football Nick, | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
and the referees to try to make sure the game is played in the best | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
possible spirit. Is it working? you asked the referees, they will | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
say yes. They say the conduct of the players are far better than it | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
is low on the scale. That is not to say it is perfect. When you say it | :19:32. | :19:40. | |
is not working, it is a physical and fast-moving game. Wayne Rooney | :19:40. | :19:49. | |
was very fortunate the other week. But was a real injury. That is what | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
happens. Sometimes you wonder how a player can go down. It is at such | :19:54. | :20:01. | |
speed. When it is blatant that a player has feigned injury... | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
have suggested in the past you have certain sympathy for those who do | :20:05. | :20:14. | |
feign injury. No, I did not. As a player, if you touch in the box, | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
the manager says you should have gone down because if you do try to | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
stay on your feet, the referee is faced with a difficult decision. | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
You think that is reasonable? think contact is made. In order to | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
get that decision, players will go down. Do you think clubs should | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
face disciplinary actions for misbehaviour by their players? | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Should they be docked points if they have been deemed, | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
retrospectively, to have cheated their way to victory? If you are | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
talking about technology, Maradona was hailed a hero when Argentina... | :20:55. | :21:04. | |
When he handled the ball. It was very hard to live with. You feel | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
like if another player had done Mark -- done that, he would have | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
told the referee. You do have good sportsmen and women. Eating clubs | :21:14. | :21:20. | |
should be docked points? -- do you think. I think clubs with bad | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
disciplinary records should be warned. They should initially be | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
fine. That happens. If the record does not improve, they are fined | :21:29. | :21:37. | |
again. And then they should be threatened with. Deductions. -- | :21:37. | :21:47. | |
:21:47. | :21:47. | ||
with point Productions. DC... This is a game that has an extraordinary | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
number of followers around the world. At the same time, there are | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
lots and lots of people who are very worried about the nature of | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
the game. About the cheating, about the mining, about the attendant | :22:03. | :22:12. | |
problems. -- the money. Should we be happy or should we be worried? | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
It is creating such wealth. It is the responsibility for everybody in | :22:16. | :22:26. | |
it. They should be Social responsibility. The billionaire's | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
in the IT would have given money back for good causes. What is not | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
always appreciated are the community programmes that are in | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
existence. Do you feel let down by your own members? Of course I do. | :22:40. | :22:50. | |
That is human nature. It would be a strange world otherwise. If you had | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
a team of choirboys, you would not expect them to it all be brilliant. | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
That his life. It is a class of children. You have good, bad, in | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
different. You'll have the ones you can reliant. Last year, the FA | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
players made 40,000 visits to good causes. Their work with the | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
government on initiatives to combat obesity, to try and combat knife | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
crime. There are millions put in by the Premier League, the Football | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
Association, the Football League into social responsibility | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
programmes and grassroots football. My local club, a Methodist Sunday | :23:31. | :23:38. | |
School, was transformed by grants. I unveiled a plaque to after warden | :23:38. | :23:47. | |
who played in that area. -- for a player. People do not always | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
appreciate what football gives back to the community. I cannot think of | :23:52. | :23:56. |