Pyotr Verzilov - Russian artist and political activist HARDtalk

the year. That is the summary of now it is time for HARDtalk.

Goodnight. Welcome to HARDtalk with me, Zeinab

Badawi. To their critics they're publicity hungry blasphemers. To

rockers rockers protesting against what

Vladimir Vladimir Putin's authoritarianism

and sexism. When three members of the Russian band Pussy Riot were

international outcry. They were found guilty of hooliganism for

staging an illegal performance early this year in Moscow's

guest today is Pyotr Verzilov, the Is Pussy Riot's high media profile

rather Pyotr Verzi

to to HARDtalk. Good to be here.

wife is in prison now, does she other two girls don't have any

regrets for what has happened. We has happened, and the response to

happened happened for a very good reason.

feelin analysis

analysis and the critique which action,

action, after the girl's' performance, it has helped to

illustrate what is happening in Russia. They do feel they are

paying the price for a statement. them

in your

your wife, Nadya, is paying is that often does

often does she see her? She is The

The last time she saw Nadya was six months ago. How does that make Hera

makes up a feel? She feels very worried. She

makes up a lot of things for herself. Sh

locked princess, a

princess, and she draws all these plans with tractors and trolley

buses and other kinds of equipment she Friis an idea. This is very

important for her -- she Friis Nadya. She has still got 14 months

to serve, although she got a 2-year since

since February/March was taken into account. It is a long time to be

separated from your child. It is, especially for this age when your

time you wi time you will see her will be when

she is six years old. It has a huge impact on a child's development. It

is a very big trauma. Nadya and the other Bachmann members, what did

they think they were going to achieve? They went into this

cathedral in Moscow and sang this song, Virgin Mary Kick Out Putin.

They brought attention to issues that had been seen as secondary in

Russian society. That was firstly the unacceptably close connection

of the Church and the state. And secondly the near sacred status of

state power in been

last 12 yea last 12 years of Putin's rural.

and and religion, but as Putin said in

an interview in September on Russian te has

to protect the feelings of believers. He said, "You know

Russians still have painful memories of the early years of

Soviet rule. The Soviet authorities brutally repressed the clergy, many

churches were destroyed, the attacks had a devastating effect on

exactly this same attitude is being recalled by a main the Liberal

people inside Russia's Orthodox Church. For example the Church's

most renowned thinker, Father Andrey Kuraas been

constantly saying that it is unbelievable how quickly people

have forgotten all of the pain done to the church and how quickly

people are ready to put handcuffs on other people in the name of

incredible incredible to seek how absolutely

all memory of State repressions have disappat is

not exactly true, looking at the over, she said that it severely

insulted believers. And in a RIA Novosti poll, it said it insulted

them as well. The. Putin makes is a valid one, but in effect all they

achieved their was to defend people's religious sensibilities.

If you look from the point of view of Christian philosophy and

Christianity as a religion it really is impossible to defend

one's Christian feelings. It i the other hand possible to attend

one's feelings of deep respect towards certain traditionalist

Conservative rituals, which have long been nurtured in your country.

And so when people refer 2000 year- old Russian values, which have been

supposedly insulted, they are not referring to Christian values. They

ideas which exist in people's minds, and which will have a very bleak

and distant relationship to the values that Christianity has stood

up for in the last 2000 years. you think that Christianity stands

for the kind of values that would allow three young women to go into

the Cathedral in Moscow, perform their songs, high kicks at the

Alter and so long, because that would not be allowed in a lot ies.

countries. I doubt you would be able to do able to do estminster

Cathedral, St Paul's Cathedral, in public order offence. Obviously in

mentio or

church and they would have charges brought against them. But in no

country wou substantialtime

for this. Anyone in any Western country for getting something in

excess of a month or two weeks in prison for this is completely

unlikely. That is a different point you're making, when the band wrote

a letter to the Times of London saying that what they did was a

another band member, Yekaterina Samutsevich, said the whole world

is saying we are not guilty. That is not what the whole world is

did did should be seen as a public

order offence, but the sentence was disproportionate. In most countries

Can Can you clarify for us, what Pussy

was it was it legal and legitimate? Or was

it simply that they were given a disproportionate sentence? In my

opinion, and obviously I have to treat this as an artist first of

all because I am an artist, when a court of law reduce a certain case

absolutely all reasons why a reviews. Here we see that people,

action, they did not do it because of certain considerations for

did it for precisely stated and clearly understood political

reasons. In this instance a court of law in my opinion should give a

they did was illegal? You're what

what they did was illegal basically? I'm saying that if you

say it is illegal under the administrative code of the Ratten

Federation, I can except that what was done was illegal under the

Federation -- accept, under the Article 5.2 the girls should have been given,

Article 5.2 Administrat

There's a Mac maximum fine of 1000 say you describe yourself as an

idea, were part of a wider political art movement, will

We have seen things like this with these actions as crude, aggressive,

to be crude, aggressive and provocative because it has a very

important goal are the wakening a people in the situation when they

can't be awoken by anything else. So this is what art is supposed to

creating hi creating his paintings in the

beginning of the 20th century seemed very disturbing to a lot of

people that were used to the traditional approach to art. But at

the same time they did open the dissented u

dissented up until that point that the role of people was changing at

that point in history. Political art can be used to counter state

propaganda But in what way do you think that

the actions that you and your wife took part in in 2008, when you were

amongst couples at Moscow's YELLOW biological Museum, actually.

Sorry. And you were having public sex as a group. And she was very

heavily pregnant at the time. In what way does that advance

That action was done for a very the

the presidential elections in Russia, it was done after we

decided a certain metaphor would describe what is happening in

Russia. Just as you have an act of physical love, which can be called

sex, existing. An imitation of that Act, pornography, in the same way

approaches approaches and a very bleak

imitation of that which existed and still exists in Russia. When we saw

situation, we decided it was our duty to make this quite shocking.

In what way does it help to protest Medvedev, V

Medvedev, Vladimir Putin's protege in 2008. In what way did public

group sex make a protest against his election? You cannot call this

exactly a protest. In this particular action, which is a work

of art, it is a wakening call. A lot of people started to analyse

what was In

In 2008 we saw something very strange happening in Russia's

electoral system. What evidence do The cost -- the impact on the

of of photography, but this action

provoked serious debates and discussions. That was the goal.

Didn't it play into Vladimir Putin's hands? He said, it is OK if

you want to do this privately, but I would not be certain about

uploading your actions on the you can tur

in in Russia, who are not happy about

with your tactics, these shock tactics. I often have discussions

always always asking, why does Vladimir

Putin allow himself to see these incredible comments? -- Western

friends. He referred to the Israeli president awer

and all of us praise him for raping several women. There was no regret

was off mic Putin has shown... I do not... That

was off mic is

is known to use rather fruity rather

rather crude phraseology. Nevertheless, the point I making,

your group sex allowed Vladimir Putin to depict Pussy Riot and

Voina as people going for publicity and higher profile actions witng

advancing a political cause. Russia this is a very usual

argument that the government accuses everyone. Everyone who

critiques, talks negative of Vladimir Putin at his policies

simply going for publicity. -- and his policies. JPR and gathering

comments on the internet. -- PR. emphasise

emphasise how chauvinistic Russian society is. Nadezhda Tolokonnikova

says we do not want people to focus on us as individuals, we want

people to look at us as an idea. TUC the irony, she blatantly uses

advance The ironic situation is that her

youth, beauty and sexuality was uncovered by the police and courts.

If the situation went on in any democratic country the authorities

show trial show trial

world. world. Nobody would bring up her

a involved in the public orgy and

uploaded it on the internet. That particul

particular particular action was not made in a

way that exploits sexuality. It is very different from pornography. No

art expert, and a person who has seen pornography thinks it

resembles any type... Another message that was the right -- Pussy

Riot talk about, they are Against capitalism. They got a great deal

of support from capitalist Western countries like the US, you have

you you are railing against Western

capitalism at the same time. cannot say that rail

Western capitalism is been number one issue right now. All of us have

a lot of questions towards how certain elements of the politi

and economic system work in the West, but we consider that a

secondary issue right now compared to the main

achiev achieve in battling Vladimir

Putin's sys Putin's sys. Vadim Nikitin said what wsy

Riot once represents a threat to the esta the established order and the West.

Threats to the establishment and the West? Real power for art is

always a threat to the establishment. -- powerful. In this

threat. How do you see ourselves as part of the wider opposition

movement to Vladimir Putin? -- yourselves. You have got Alexei

keep their distance from the Western media, had the EU fit into

the movement? We see ourselves as a creative in the opposition. How do

you fit. We have been quite successful in drawing these images.

You personalise your criticisms in recent poll from the Levada-Centre,

63% of Russians approved of regional bodies, the oligarchs and

other officials. Even if Vladimir Putin was taken out of the picture

for the sake of argument, Russia would not be fixed. We honestly, as

well as most of the people in the Russian opposition, we believe

today's political system depends on Vladimir Putin. Vladimir Putin over

the last 12 years has become a symbol that the system is

indestructible and not changeable. We believe that after such a symbol

is dismantled and gone from Russia's political scene, that the

path for change will really open. These people who feel secure with

corporate corporate wrongdoing, when they

commit the -- illegal acts, they feel they are protected by the

system. Briefly, when your wife is released from prison, what is she

going to do? Carry on with the protests? Definitely. They are very

certain that once they believe they will fight and oppose Russia's

system and do everything they can to make Russia a better country at

any price. Risk of being imprisoned again? If you really love your

do everything that you can to change it, you have to risk

everything. They will continue with their focus on Vladimir Putin?