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Three have come to New York City for an exclusive interview with the | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
President of Burma, U Thein Sein, who has undergone a remarkable | :00:32. | :00:40. | |
transformation. From former stalwart of a military junta into | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
the reformist leader of a nation desperate to end its international | :00:43. | :00:52. | |
isolation. Burma's authoritarian rulers used to vilify the western | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
media, but now they are ready to talk. How far down the road to | :00:56. | :01:05. | |
democracy are they prepared to travel? | :01:05. | :01:15. | |
Welcome to HARDtalk. Let me begin by talking about what he said at | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
the UN a few days ago. You said your country is making amazing | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
changes. Irreversible steps towards democracy. And yet, for decades, | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
year, a loyal member of a military dictatorship - what has made you | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :02:05. | ||
Let me ask you about one particular citizen of your country - Aung San | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
Suu Kyi. She spent almost two decades under house arrest, | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
confined to her own house as a result of her political opposition | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
to your military dictatorship. Are you prepared to say sorry to her | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
and to the thousands of others who were imprisoned by your military | :02:27. | :02:37. | |
:02:37. | :02:55. | ||
But the point is, for people to believe your commitment to | :02:55. | :03:03. | |
democracy is genuine, they also want to hear you say that you | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
regret what happens in the past. You regret the repressive policies | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
of the military government. Are you prepared to say that you now regret | :03:14. | :03:24. | |
:03:24. | :03:44. | ||
But what about regret? Do you have How would you describe the | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
relationship with Aung San Suu Kyi now? You had met her three times. | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
At least once in New York over the past few days. How would you | :03:56. | :04:06. | |
:04:06. | :04:32. | ||
describe the relationship with her Here is where she said in the US a | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
few days ago: Yes, there has been changed in my country but not all | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
of the changes necessary to make sure that we're going to be a | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
genuinely democratic society. The question is, are you prepared to go | :04:51. | :05:01. | |
:05:01. | :05:15. | ||
all the way to create a truly Let's talk about a few of those | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
things. Let's talk about the constitution. Right now, it would | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
be impossible for Aung San Suu Kyi to become President of your country | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
because there are clauses in the constitution that says no President | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
could, for example, have a spouse or children who were nationals of a | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
foreign country which of course she has. Are you prepared to change the | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
constitution in order to allow her, if she is elected by the people, to | :05:44. | :05:54. | |
:05:54. | :06:32. | ||
I understand, Mr President, that you cannot change the constitution | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
single-handed. Budgie has sent very important symbolic gestures already. | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
He could send another one right now. Ie prepared to say that you | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
personally believe it is time to change the constitution, not least | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
to and now Aung San Suu Kyi the possibility of becoming President, | :06:51. | :07:01. | |
:07:01. | :07:15. | ||
if she is elected by the people in But you did choose to praise Aung | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
San Suu Kyi at the United Nations and in other told she had given in | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
America. He had praise her efforts for democracy, he congratulated her | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
on the Nobel Peace Prize, D believe she would make it a good leader of | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
your country? Are you prepared to imagine working with her if she | :07:37. | :07:46. | |
:07:47. | :08:06. | ||
So to be clear about it, if the people what her, and we has seen in | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
recent by-elections and local elections in your country that the | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
national need for democracy has swept the board, they have won a | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
series of by-elections. If the people won her, you say then she | :08:20. | :08:29. | |
:08:30. | :08:57. | ||
As we have already discussed, you have made a remarkable | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
transformation in your own life from senior general member of the | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
military regime to now a President talking of reform. But some people | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
in your country do wonder whether the military is prepared to give up | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
so many of the powers it has enjoyed. For example, right now, | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
the military still has 25% of the seats in the parliament reserved | :09:25. | :09:35. | |
:09:35. | :09:57. | ||
I understand what you're saying about the constitution. I am not | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
just talking about the politics and the constitution. I am also | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
thinking about the economy. To quote the most recent analysis of | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
your country's economy, they say is: Wealth from the country's and | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
poor natural resources is concentrated on the hands of an | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
elite group of military leaders and their associates. Should that | :10:23. | :10:33. | |
:10:33. | :10:39. | ||
It is not true? How come when we look at who owns the mines, who | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
profits from the timber industry, and from vast tracts of | :10:45. | :10:54. | |
:10:55. | :11:23. | ||
agricultural land, it is the When we look at the economy in your | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
country, we have seen in the last 20 years or so, that the key | :11:28. | :11:36. | |
strategic partner has been China. You have been talking to US | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
officials. You have persuaded them to ease the embargo on imports | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
coming from your country into the US. Is it your view that | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
increasingly there is going to be a shift of this strategic | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
relationship and that no country is increasingly looking to the West | :11:59. | :12:09. | |
:12:09. | :12:37. | ||
But from what you have heard in the US from US officials, D believed | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
this is the beginning of a new era in relations between your country | :12:42. | :12:52. | |
:12:52. | :13:12. | ||
There are people in Beijing who are worried about the changes in your | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
country, not least there were upset by one key decision you took when | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
it decided to suspend your work on the dam. A key project worth | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
billions of dollars which was going to give a lot of power to China. | :13:29. | :13:37. | |
You stopped that project. Do you believe it is in your country's | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
interest to have a different, maybe a less close relationship with | :13:42. | :13:52. | |
:13:52. | :14:15. | ||
We have talked a lot about political change and you say to me | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
that you, personally, have changed because you recognise the will of | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
the people. It seems to me that one of the desires of your people is to | :14:26. | :14:35. | |
have an accounting. As sense of justice for past wrongs. We know | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
that tens of thousands of people were imprisoned by the military | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
government. Hundreds, probably thousands, of people were killed | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
during violence perpetrated by in military government. I knew now | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
prepared to investigate the past and deliver accountability and just | :14:55. | :15:05. | |
:15:05. | :15:25. | ||
But, Mr President, what about justice for things that were done | :15:25. | :15:35. | |
:15:35. | :15:38. | ||
Let me be clear about one thing. In the last few weeks, he announced | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
another prisoner release. Hundreds of political prisoners have been | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
released in the past year but human rights groups say there are still | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
perhaps a couple of hundred political prisoners inside Ewood | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
jails. I'd you prepared to tell me here and now that all political | :15:57. | :16:07. | |
:16:07. | :16:07. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds | :16:07. | :16:49. | |
prisoners will be released and country. You say that the country | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
has never really enjoyed complete security since independence. The | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
truth is, it still doesn't today. If we look at the latest reports | :16:59. | :17:09. | |
:17:09. | :17:09. | ||
from some of the border areas of your country, for example captain, | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
quoting a human rights report, the Burmese army is still committing | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
unchecked abuses including rape, razing villages and torturing | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
civilians. You have said here in the United States that you will | :17:21. | :17:29. | |
bring piste your country. That means you have to tell the military | :17:29. | :17:39. | |
:17:39. | :18:08. | ||
to behave in a different way. -- I have to ask you about one other | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
issue, which has caused deep concern at the United Nations and | :18:12. | :18:19. | |
around the world. That is the fate of the Muslim population in your | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
country. And this summer we saw terrible clashes, violence, which | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
left more than 80 civilians dead, including women and children. And | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
around the time of those clashes, you said this about that Muslim | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
population. He said, "we can't accept them. They are not our | :18:42. | :18:52. | |
:18:52. | :18:52. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds | :18:52. | :20:35. | |
ethnicity. Refugee camps or Mr President, you know that | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
powerful figures at the UN and around the world have criticised | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
you and your government for your policy towards them. It seems you | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
are now going to be judged by a very high standard. You say that | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
your country is on a path to genuine democracy and to real | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
freedom for all its citizens. So you are going to be judged by a | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
high standard. Do you believe that new, and more particularly the | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
people in the military, that you have been so close to, can meet | :21:11. | :21:21. | |
:21:21. | :21:22. | ||
It strikes me there are perhaps some similarities between your | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
position and that of Gorbachev, who led the transition in the Soviet | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
Union. He was the architect of so much change. But when the change | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
came, he got swept away. Q You think you might get swept away as | :21:38. | :21:48. | |
:21:48. | :22:13. | ||
your country becomes a democracy? - Hang on, last point. You say it is | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
irreversible, this move to democracy. How long is it going to | :22:17. | :22:24. | |
take for your country to become a full-fledged democracy and to | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
Qatar... Catch up with the other nations of South East Asia, which | :22:31. | :22:35. |