Larry Hagman - actor HARDtalk


Larry Hagman - actor

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the Liberal Democrats came eighth. Never more famous than when he was

:00:31.:00:35.

short on screen, my guest was the central figure in the Dallas TV

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series, the one everybody loved to hate. As JR, he became known

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worldwide and could still draw a crowd at a bus stop. Like JR, he

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was a tough negotiator when it came to contracts. What does it mean to

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be a TV legend, and what did he say to Bill Clinton about all those

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women? Larry Hagman, you look puzzled.

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your last comment, I don't remember what I said. Did you not meet him

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in a receiving line at one point? Yes. It was at the height of Monica

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Lewinsky. Oh, yes. I was doing a film called Primary Colors and I

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had just finished it. He had not seen it and I had a friend, Max

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Cleland, a triple amputee from the Vietnam war. At that time, he was

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the Junior Senator from Georgia and he said, let's go and meet Bill.

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There was a line with 300 people. I said, we cannot stand in line. I

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have a plane to catch. He said, they will not kick out a triple

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amputee, we will go to the head of the line. We did. I had met him

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once before and he said, hello, how are you doing. I said, I am doing

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fine, how are you? He said, how do I come off in Primary Colors? I

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said, you'll be pleased or stop this is handled well and he worries

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sympathetic character. You did not tell him the truth. He said, what

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do you think I ought to do right now? I said, get the hell out of

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town. The next day, he went to Africa. He took my advice. I'm sure

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he had planned it months before but he got out of town. Over the years,

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you have loved the Fein, the adulation. What are the best

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moments? What do you cherish? Walking down the street and having

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people say, hello, JR. You actually watched every episode religiously.

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Did you watch it critically? hopelessly. Sometimes they cut out

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your best scenes. -- helplessly. Narcissistically? I like to see

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what other people were doing. were never disappointed, were you?

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On occasion, yes. You did not think you had risen to the occasion?

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had words with them about cutting certain things out of scenes that I

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liked. They finally came around to my view. You made them an offer

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they could not refuse. I did. were tough on the set. You did not

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do as you were told. You were difficult. Not at all. You were not

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the character on screen at all? at all. I'm a pussycat. When I

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thought something was best for the show, talk to the people who

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handled that, producers and directors. I got on well with

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everyone. And you never took it seriously. Only one year. The

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producer I loved, and the guy was really responsible for the success

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of the show, he left. He had friction with other guy he was

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working under, another producer who took over and was a disaster. It

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got down to me saying, it is me or him, and get the other guy back. So

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they did. I could see it going down the tubes because of the taste of

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the man. So I got rid of him, got my guide back and we lasted four

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more years. You don't believe you quite made it. I made it to a

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degree that I am quite happy with. Bigger than you ever thought

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possible, wasn't it? Yes, about as big as you can do on television.

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You can even claim some credit for getting rid of the Communists in

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Eastern Europe. The final boot in the backside. I had a Russian

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friend, a director from Russia, and he would bring big jugs of beluga

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caviar. I would trade him for some VCR tape recorders and players. And

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about 50 or 100 tapes of Dallas. He would take them back, clone them,

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they would spread around his circle of friends and out from there in an

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ever-widening circle. People would see that and they would say,

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because they did not have information about the West, they

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would see Dallas and see how we live, a little higher than most, of

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course. It gave them an idea that they were missing out on what was

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happening in other parts of the world. I think it had a real

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influence on the taste and the information that the Soviet Union

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got. Romania as well. I was walking down the street there one day. I

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was their supposedly to help children with AIDS, which they have

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a major problem with. A man came up with tears in his eyes and he said,

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JR, you saved our country. Two or three other people did. Not Larry

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Hagman, but JR. Apparently, Churchers School, the terrible

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dictator over there for 20 years, had three television shows on the

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air, two of political speeches and one of Dallas, to show how morally

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corrupt America was. People saw that. -- Nicolae Churchers School.

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They saw they were missing out on things and they took him out and

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shot him. What about when they shot you? Give me a sense of how big

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that was. I could not understand it. It was huge. Mary Crosby shot me,

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Bing Crosby's daughter, by the way. She was playing the sister of Sue

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Ellen, who while -- who I was having a fling with. You had 106

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flings. Did you count? Somebody counted. I wondered whether you had

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forgotten how to do it for real. what for real? Oh, yes! Where were

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we? 380 million people. Yes, it was phenomenal. I don't know why. That

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year, we finished shooting the show, almost. We were doing so well that

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CBS wanted to do four more to capitalise on it and they could not

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come up with anything other than having the shot. They said, what

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will we do after that? They did not figure it out, had no idea. And

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then this phenomenon came along and the world picked up on it. It was

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very unusual. And so, when they finally exposed who shot me it was

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380 million people. I think that was a conservative estimate,

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because many people in other parts of the world saw it, too. More

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people than voted in the presidential election that year.

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That is not unusual. It was issued to boost for the show, wasn't it?

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Yes. And a huge boost for you personally. I was negotiating my

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new contract. You decided to milk it. I came to London to get away

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from Hollywood and away from people who said I would never work again.

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I was pushing 50. You breached your contract. I told them I would not

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work unless I got a raise. What did your mother think of that, Mary

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Martin? I left the country because she would say, you must on your

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contract. Contracts are all very well. They made money and I made

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money, I wanted my share. Greedy? Of course. But you had everything

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at that point, didn't you? I did not have a good salary. It was not

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a bad one. I was making about 17,000 a week. $17,000 a week. Not

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bad. Nowhere near what I was worth at the time. You decided to hold

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out for how much? At the time, I think it was 150,000. I did not get

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that but I got very close to that. And then it went up in increments.

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They would Saini for three years and we would go past that. Finally,

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I was making about a quarter of a million dollars per episode, which

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is nothing now, but it was in those days. There are kids now making

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$750,000 an episode. You blazed a trail. I did, and I should get a

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piece of their action. Kelsey Grammer and Friends. Yes, where is

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my piece. This was a high-risk tactic. I would never have worked

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again if I did not pull it off. They could have just said, you have

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been shot. Yes, and they did. They hired somebody to play my part.

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They were shooting for 10 days before we reached a contract. I was

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here in London, getting all the publicity, and it got back to them

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back there. You were using the publicity. Your agent's idea?

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my agents were too timid. Your agents never work for you, they

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work for the main man. So make as much of a storm as you can, as much

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publicity and put pressure on the studio. Yes. I had agents and

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publicity people going in for these meetings and I bought them each a

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white stetson. I said when you go in there, you wear a white stetson

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and you will get what you want. enjoyed it, playing it close to the

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line. It was a rush. This was your big moment. And if it had gone the

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other way? I would have been just another actor out of work, which I

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am now. Tell me how Dallas started in the late 1970s. Well, I was

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going to see my mother and Ethel Merman, a great star in those days,

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to do a benefit for the New York library. We had to go to this

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studio and we got these two scripts, one a comedy - I had done I Dream

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of Jeannie before which was a big success. They are doing re runs now.

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Here, even, I think. It is all over the United States. I read a comedy

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script, thinking that was what they had me in mind for. My wife went to

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her bedroom and was reading Dallas. I heard, Larry, this is it, come

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and read this. I went inside and everybody was a bad character. They

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were all dreadful people. Bobby, Victoria, everyone. I said, this is

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my kind of show. It filters down over the six weeks, the six

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episodes we did to begin with, to me being the bad character. And you

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were running the show. The show was JR. Well, it was, but it was a

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communal effort. Without the other characters, it would not have meant

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anything. I did not do much. They would build it up to say, what will

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JR think, he will be angry. Instead of being angry, I would be smiling

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and that put the fear of God into them. He brought in some champagne.

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On the first day, brought in a case of cold, chilled champagne and

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opened it at the Reading, to the consternation of the producers. It

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broke the ice and got us friendly. Lifelong friendships emerged.

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Gray is a great friend. Linda Gray is in The Graduate in London at the

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moment. What was it like? Were the cast as nice as you said? You do

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not use your book to settle scores, like some. This is not a kiss-and-

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tell book. No, and also, I do not have a lot to tell. We got along

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wonderfully. Everybody on the show was a great family, for 13 years.

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Patrick dropped out for a year because he wanted his career to go

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in another direction. I said, don't do that. People do not trust you

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when you leave a successful show like this. They think you are nuts.

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Sure enough, after another year, we got him back. It led to the most

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unlikely reappearance ever. Right. When he left and was coming back,

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we could not figure out how to get him back. That was the year that my

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producer left and another to go over and I was very unhappy. So we

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made it a dream that did not happen. Well, we lost a lot of viewers but

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we had enough to maintain for It was fine. Wonderful. Everybody

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got raises after that. It wasn't just me. Everybody did. A piece of

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the pie. A big piece of the pie. Everybody was happy, I think. They

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are still friends, we go hunting and fishing together.

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You didn't approve of the smoking, did you? Barbara Bel Geddes, you

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followed her around. She smoked a couple packs a day. I objected to

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it, of course. I said, a lot of people in here don't smoke, so she

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would have her own make-up person and go to her own dressing room.

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She didn't like that very much, but then she had a massive heart attack

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and almost died. Now she can't stand anyone smoking around her.

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You hated smoking, but you were drinking a lot. Yes, but it wasn't

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affecting anybody. Five bottles of champagne a day? Why? I don't know.

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You get on a level, you just kind of keep that level. Not drunk

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obstreperous or angry. You were an amiable drunk? Yes. I was fun. I

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enjoyed it. But I destroyed my liver. You were bored, weren't you?

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It was so easy for me, maybe the drink made it more difficult, more

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of a challenge. The character was easy? Yes, once I had my character,

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I didn't have to do anything. They wrote it and I did it. I think

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perhaps on reflection, it was so easy that I wanted it to be more

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difficult so I drank to make it more of a challenge. I think.

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you could be a drunk, you could take drugs, but there was one rule

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that you couldn't break on set. Never be late. Ever. And hang your

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own clothes up. Yes. That's what Mother said. Never be late. Know

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your lines, hang your clothes up. Try and be reasonably sober.

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last one... I didn't do that one very well. You have been married

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for 47 years. Almost a record in the entertainment...? Yes, up there

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with Jimmy Stewart and people like that. How did your wife cope with

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all of it? I was not abusive. She floated along with me, I guess.

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Champagne during the day and vodka during the night. She's a

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workaholic. When she's got time on her hands, she designs clothes, or

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builds a house. She's tough? She lays down rules. Yes, I suppose so.

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I do what she tells me. That's why we've been married 47 years.

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she travels with you? Yes, everywhere. Tell me about the time

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you met the Queen Mother. You went to the 80th gala command

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performance. Yes. The greatest performance of your life? It was

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the most interesting performance of my life. I had done a song. A

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single. And to promote it, I came over to be in the Palladium with

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Mother. They asked me to do the single. I had read the lyrics and

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recorded it. They introduced me and I came on. # Oom-Pah-Pah...

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# I got halfway through and all of the lines just went out of my head.

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I turned to the conductor who was one of the most pre-eminent

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conductors in the world and I said, can we start over again? I don't

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know. We have to tell everybody in the chorus as well. Everybody is

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out of the audience going what is the matter with that guy? So we

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started again. I started singing again, sure enough, got to the same

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place and it was gone. I turned to the Queen Mother in the box and I

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said, I'm sorry, ma'am, but if you're going to blow it, blow it

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big. That got a laugh. Without further ado, I'm going to introduce

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my mother, Peter Pan. And she came on, did a couple of numbers, and we

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did a duet. It was kind of exhilarating, really. I wasn't

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nervous, I was just, like, having fun. You talked about that that in

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the receiving line afterwards with Prince Charles? I met the Queen

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Mother and she said I don't suppose so I said, not even you. Lauren

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Bacall, you were working on a TV movie with her. I was told that

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Lauren did not like people to touch her. And there were scenes where I

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would have to kiss her. Well, you don't touch her. I said, what does

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that mean? Make it look like you're kissing her. I had never worked

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with her before and I worked for two weeks with the understudy being

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warned all the time. I finally came to meet her and she was grandly

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sitting, she's a wonderful woman. She was sitting in her dressing

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room. She offered me her hand. And it just came over me and I licked

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her hand and wrist right up to her elbow. Just ran my tongue up her

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arm. It was just the most disgusting thing. And she was just

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looking at me like that. I don't know why I did it. That is the most

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extraordinary thing. I was embarrassed when I was doing it,

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but I couldn't stop. She dismissed me and finally we did the show.

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must have been shocked. She did not know what to do. Was anybody else

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there? No, luckily, just she and I. never did it to anybody else? I got

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it out of my system. You knew several years before Dallas finally

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ended that it was on the way out. Was it tough? Well, we have ouir

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peaks and valleys in life. I knew it was inevitable. I wanted to keep

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it going because I knew I'd be typecast as that character for the

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rest of my life. You wanted to be typecast? I was typecast. You don't

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want to keep that when you are looking for other work. But I

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stored up enough... Cash? Cash to ride out the rest of my storm.

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it ended, did the phones start ringing? Did you get a lot of

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offers? I got offers to play bad guys. You were in Dallas, smoking a

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cigar with your feet on the table. Wait, I never smoked anything. We

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didn't allow smoking on the set. Yes, you smoked cigars. I did not.

:20:11.:20:14.

They equate bad guys with cigar smoking. So I turned down those

:20:14.:20:24.
:20:24.:20:24.

jobs. If it was an interesting bad guy, I would do it. But I didn't

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find anything interesting. So far. A year later, you mentioned a

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little while ago, cirrhosis of the liver. A few years later. Out of

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the blue? You were drinking at such a rate, you must have known? I said

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if the doctors tell me to stop drinking, I would stop. The doctors

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did tell me to stop. I was working out with my workout lady. Every day,

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I would do an hour. She said, you don't have the energy you used to

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have. I went to see the doctor and he did a lot of blood tests. He

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called me when I was home, having a vodka and orange and he said, are

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you drinking? I said, yes. He said, I suggest you pour it down the

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drain. You have chronic cirrhosis of the liver and your next drink

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could kill you. I said, you are kidding?! He said, no, it's true.

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So I did, I poured it down the drain and I never had another drink.

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Never from that day on? No, but I didn't have any withdrawal or

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anything like that. It was very lucky. I just said, I'm not going

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to do this any more, so I didn't. You got a transplant. I got a

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transplant. That was two and a half years before my transplant and I

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thought stopping might save it, but I'd done so much damage to my liver

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that it was irreperable. Scared you. No. Why not? I'm not scared of

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death, I'm scared of pain and there was no pain connected with it so I

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just floated off into encephalopathy, in your brain,

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things don't meet so it was getting harder to remember... I wasn't

:22:08.:22:12.

working at that time, so I didn't have any lines to learn. But it was

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hard to put things together. So I didn't mind. And they recommended a

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liver transplant and I said, no, I'm 65, I've had a wonderful life

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and I'd rather not, I don't want to be a cripple. And they said, you

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won't be a cripple, you can live a normal life. They introduced me to

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a guy called Dallas Taylor, the drummer for Crosby Stills and Nash,

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and he had ruined his liver with all kinds of things and had a

:22:40.:22:44.

successful transplant and came to talk to me. He introduced me to a

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12 step program, which I still go through, and got me involved in

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searching for another way of facing life. And it worked. It worked, a

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new lease of life? I had my transplant and I felt wonderful

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immediately afterwards. I remember a girl, her phone number from when

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I was 16 years old. All these things were coming to mind. Do you

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look forward or back in life? Forward now. This is the cream on

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the top. It's all wonderful. I look backwards in my book and that's as

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far I want to go. Good to have got it off your chest? I think so, yeah.

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I'd never write another book. That's for sure. Would you do

:23:35.:23:41.

Dallas again? I'd do a reunion again. The bloom is off the rose

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