Hugo Chavez, late president of Venezuela HARDtalk


Hugo Chavez, late president of Venezuela

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with the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez.

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Welcome to the Miraflores presidential palace in Caracas

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and a special edition of HARDtalk.

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My guest is one of the most polarising leaders in

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the world today.

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President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is committed to socialism

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and the anti-imperialist struggle.

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For decades Fidel Castro was the keeper of Latin America's

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revolutionary flames.

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Well, now it is Chavez.

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But are Venezuela's people beginning to tire of their firebrand

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President?

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President Hugo Chavez, welcome to HARDtalk.

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Thank you very much.

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I want to begin by asking you about the Venezuelan economy.

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You have a serious problem with inflation.

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You have a currency that has been devalued and your country

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is still in recession.

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Is it fair to say that socialism right now is not working?

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You had growth.

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But now you do not have growth.

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You're the only Latin American country that this year,

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as well as last year, is not growing at all and is in recession.

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Is it possible, you say it's possible, to have some form

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Is it possible, you say it's possible, to have some form

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of capitalism with in a socialist system.

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Is it possible to have genuine democracy and respect for the rule

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of law within your socialist system?

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You are absolutely right that you have won elections,

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and you have won them very easily.

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But democracy is more than about just winning elections.

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Can I put one case to you that suggests you perhaps do not adhere

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to the wider rule of law and the independence

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of the judiciary.

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Let me mention the case here, a judge in Venezuela,

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Maria Afiuni.

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She made a decision to release a man who you regarded as...

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As a corrupt opponent of your regime.

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But the fact was the judge decided after two years in detention

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she followed the law and she released him from detention.

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You then made a speech in which you said her actions had

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been worse than those of an assassin.

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You demanded she be put in jail for 30 years,

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and she is currently in a prison.

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What does that say about your respect for the independence

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of the judiciary?

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But many independent observers look at what you have done,

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in that case and others, and have concluded, and I'm quoting

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the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, "The political

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system in Venezuela is fundamentally undermined by the lack

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of judicial independence."

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But Mr President, there are many different international groups...

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Latin American groups, who have questioned your commitment

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to the rule of law.

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When Human Rights Watch wrote a report about this subject

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you threw out the two people that wrote the report.

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It seems whenever people are critical of your record

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you do not accept it.

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You said that you would not listen to the Inter-American Commission

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on Human Rights, you said they had no credibility.

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Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, other

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Latin American organisations have said you do not respect

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the rule of law.

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But when you hear the criticism you react against the critics.

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You threw out two of the people from Human Rights Watch who wrote

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a report about you.

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It is difficult to have a credible opposition in this country,

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and I'm sure you agree opposition is a big part of democracy,

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if when an opponent becomes a very loud critic you lock them up.

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It's very difficult then to be in opposition.

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Yes, of course.

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There are some people...

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But the point is there are many people who can't insult

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you on the TV because they're in prison.

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For example, Raul Baduel, he used to be a very good colleague

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of yours, he used to be your defence minister.

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But when he became a critic of yours and joined the opposition

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you had him locked up.

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I know that but you only decided he was corrupt when he became

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an opponent of yours.

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There are many examples...

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You say give me examples...

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We obviously could go through every example,

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Mr President, but one more example...

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Let's talk about one more example, the former presidential candidate,

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Oswaldo Alvarez Paz, you have now charged him as well.

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He is another leading opponent of yours and he is also

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now facing charges.

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I've been used.

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How have I been used?

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How have I been used?

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I sense your frustration that you feel that you're misunderstood

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in the world beyond Venezuela and Latin America.

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I want to ask you about some of your international policies,

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your policies looking outward beyond Venezuela's borders.

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In the last decade it's fair to say you have made a lot of headlines

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with your powerful criticism of the United States,

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of US imperialism, and George W Bush in particular.

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But Bush is gone, he left the picture more than a year ago.

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President Obama is now President of the United States.

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Do you now see a very different United States?

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What signals do you see right now?

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Do you see signals that would lead you to still use

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the word 'imperialism?'

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Do you still see imperialism coming out of Washington?

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Are you determined to do what you can to undermine it

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and to destroy it?

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Can I take it from your answer that your axis of unity

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with Iran will continue?

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In the past, you have said that you will be with the Iranians.

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You said that to President Ahmadinejad in 2006.

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Do you stand by those words?

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You have a very deep relationship with Iran.

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Trade, military intelligence, there are many aspects

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to the relationship.

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Are you saying you will ignore any new sanctions?

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Does that mean if the Iranians want to trade uranium with you,

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you would be prepared to do that?

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Before we finish, I want to ask you about your view of Latin America

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and South America's future.

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You have been a beacon and a leader for many countries in this region.

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They have adopted many of the same socialist ideas.

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South America is divided.

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There are other countries, Colombia, Chile, that do not share your vision

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of where South America should go.

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You have talked about the Grand Union for South America.

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You have spoken about having a common currency, maybe even

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a common government.

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Do you believe it can happen?

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It is not happening with Colombia.

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Not so long ago, your troops were gathering on the border

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as though war was a possibility.

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A final point.

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Many people have likened you to Fidel Castro.

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You have now become the carrier of the torch for the socialist

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revolution in Latin America.

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Fidel Castro built his revolution over 40 years.

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How long will it take you to build yours?

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So you will definitely run again in 2012?

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You can now, you have removed the term limits.

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You are determined to keep running for President.

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President Hugo Chavez, thank you for coming on HARDtalk.

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Hello.

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This is the shape of things to come rather than what we saw for many,

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at least, during the course of Sunday, which was a decent enough

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day for many.

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