Jean-François Copé - President, UMP Party, France HARDtalk

party wins the election. That's all from me. No it is time

Will come to HARDtalk. France is one of the political heavyweights

of the European Union. A key world economy and a major global player.

Neil Jean-Francois Cope, the leader of the UMP Party has lurched

further to the right on issues like a game marriage. He has also made

comments about the French Muslim community that have led to

accusations that he is threatening cultural harmony. Is he in danger

of concerning his party to the political dustbin at home and on

Jean-Francois Cope, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you.Are you

perhaps not too right-wing for the party at which? We are the right

wing as opposed to the left wing of the Socialist Party. I considered

the right wing in France has to be open to the world, open to the big

challenges that we have to face. Competitiveness, integration of

immigrants, and also a question of identity for the country. How can

Europe face the crisis that we have to face? Taking into account the

evolutions of the world. China, America and Africa. The main

challenge is to modernise the country. The talk about the

importance of the integration of immigrants in France. But I want to

put it to you that when you have made so can comments about some

Muslim communities in France, perhaps you have achieved the

opposite of integration. In April 2011 new launch a public debate

about Islam in secular France. Many people are concerned by the fair

views of integration. Even other members of your own party, people

like the former prime minister, they stayed part of the debate.

had this debate in France you should be. But we have now reached

a common point. One of the most important challenges that we have

to face is a capacity to be successful and integration. Culture,

education, housing, employment, all of these things are very important

for them. And for the country as well. This is not a French problem.

It is a problem for everyone in Europe. We should make sure that

the people who are coming into France are adapting to common

values. For instance, the capacity to respect each religion, to

respect each religion. The condition is that everybody

respects the religion of the other one and respects the walls of the

French Republic. That is why we for -- ban to the broker. That is why

parties across the political spectrum. I was not saying that you

were anti- immigration. You are the product of immigrants. The problem

is that we need to be successful. You have made some comments that

are controversial. Specifically directed at the Muslim community in

France. October last year you want about and I white racism in France.

You made an anecdote about a child who had its chocolate taken away by

the thugs. You sit there were needed Woods who cannot passionate

you said there were neighbourhoods which children could not eat the

chocolate because it was Ramadan. There are places in France...

you know for sure this had happened in your constituency and in other

places? What I wanted it to mean, and let us forget the anecdote, is

that France, like everyone in Europe, we have to respect the

religion of everybody. Each person has to respect the religion of the

others. That means not to instrumental lines the practice of

a religion in order to be violent. This can be the beginning of

extremism. Arab Party and the common produced in France, but also

in Europe, is to make sure that we are against all kinds of extremists.

It is very important for us to keep on the same values. That is why it

was a way from me and many other people to say that people belonging

to Republican Party's are very respectful with the rules of

democracy has saying people to be cautious. People in the far-right

with the Phar Lap. But that anecdote particularly of the child

being robbed by thugs is quite an evocative example. Was it the right

thing for you as a senior politician for you to talk about?

Which can make a long story about that. I will tell you why. The

Minister of women's rights call to a Commons ridiculous. And more than

at, a danger to harmony in France. A book was written two years before

me. She was talking of that it in exactly the same words. This is an

argument between right and left. I am sorry, but just to tell you,

this is an all story. I have said many time afterwards what is at

stake for all of us. You are concerned as he and concerned. It

is overcapacity in France and the United Kingdom, everywhere in

Europe to be cautious to put all kinds of extremism. You talked of

that people not agreeing with me. But many French people, using some

people, are totally convinced that the necessity about being cautious.

That was the only message of the story. You brought up the issue of

and a white racism. 2000 and Haughey wrote a book about it,

saying that it is a growing problem in French towns. It is something

that nobody talks about. People do or not French are being painted as

the victims of racism. But it is the white people who are suffering.

This book I wrote a long page on the question of racism. And the

necessity for us to be very tough against all kinds of xenophobia. I

wrote a but that in the book. I was totally informed about what I wrote.

If you do not talk about the totality of what I said, it is not

the reality. But could you tell us what to think about that snail?

There and in the suburbs with this kind of problem exists. Eight years

ago a group of French philosophers wrote an article about the problem

of racism. They woo calling to opinion defect that this is

dangerous. Could do you accept that this is a much greater problem a

month the non-white community? Cases for entire Muslim racism rose

last year by 30%. That is still very high. A disproportionate

number of France's ethnic minorities might become unemployed.

Discrimination is in practice, making a difference. You accept

that? I have a no problem with all that. I am here in your country,

visiting a prime minister. I am not totally sure it is necessary to

make half of the interview about this. This was a book I wrote a

year ago. It was an important debate. I think all of us should

take into account the fact that we like democracy. We have to be very

cautious with all kinds of racism and intolerance. You have in front

of you somebody who has talked about tolerance and respect. At the

start of the into the EU brought up the importance of integration.

David Cameron is on the record many times saying things about the

immense contribution that British Muslims make to society. But

looking at... I did a lot for this in my city. Looking that perhaps

you are more right-wing than the vast majority of people in France,

let us look at the issue of gay marriage. We saw the war on the gay

marriage and adoption being passed in February. -- will Mac. Were you

on the wrong side of history? me emphasise, there is no real

problem with gay marriage in France. The question is about adoption. Let

us be precise on this question. The majority of people are all right

and in favour with the gay marriage. But the majority are against

adoption. Medically assisted procreation. On these this --

issues, I was opposed to that. you are not opposed to gay

marriage? But you were. The real problem was not the problem of

marriage. Most of us said that we can find a Civil Union or marriage,

whatever, to make sure that there are equal rights between

heterosexual and homosexual. The main question, the question is at

stake, is the question of affiliation and adoption. And the

government accepted a compromise on that. When it comes to assisted

reproductive technology, fertility treatment f?I ? treatment fuples,

will be no state assistance for such medical treatments. It is

accepted that the vast majority of people were opposed to that step.

The government's position is a bit ambiguous. It has at least

recognised were to have said. has included in the more Mac that

full adoption, that is the adoption of the right wing. I said to

specifically gay marriage. Second, there is an ambiguity in the

question about medically assisted And gay rights activists say they

adoption, they want it to go further, to get a government

assistance, so they can get their own biological children. Going back

to gay marriage specifically, because I except the issue of

adoption and assisted reproduction is something that is still being

debated, but on gay marriage, you were on the wrong side that the

vast majority in people accepted gay marriage. Why are you supposed

to do it? I would not say that wrong. I think that we can respect

each other. All the message that I tried to convey all along this

debate, which was a very difficult debate, was to say, please, respect

each other. Do not consider whether you are for the marriage, you are

modern, or whether you are against, you are right take. Do not say that

one is right or wrong. -- archaic. I condemned all sorts of violence.

I hate home a phobia. I said we had a real difficulty with the question

of affiliation, and this question, has not been debated. But on gay

marriage, you were out there on the streets protesting with the

demonstrators, and there were people like Francois Fillon, who

was your rival for the leadership, who has now buried the hatchet and

staying in the United Party, but even he said he was not going out

on the streets. If you have an issue with this, you are a

parliamentarian, I do it out in parliament. There were 150

parliamentarians that went on the street. He said he would not do it

because he was the former prime minister and that's all. That he

was respecting the people. This is not a debate between us. We

respected each other. One wanted to be on the street and one did not.

It is a question of values. This debate was important. It is now

over. Explain to us, the French justice minister, at it addresses a

situation of flagrant inequality in the condition of marriage goes

unchanged, nothing will change for heterosexual couples. Explain why

you are so it a poster to gay marriage. I was not a poster to gay

marriage, I was a poster to the question of adoption. A gay

marriage is all right for a big part of my own party. There is no

debate. Sorry about that again. That is good and we want to know

where you stand on it. I told you and hold you, the French media, it

is not a real debate. Have you been out protesting on the gay marriage

and adoption law, given the terrible situation in the economy?

Isn't that a huge headache for everyone? I am very mobilised on

this question in Parliament and the media and everywhere. All the

countries in Europe are worried. The high level of unemployment, the

members in Europe is a problem. That is why we are thinking about

the future of free up. We had this discussion with David Cameron. --

future of Europe. I am interested in the speech that he delivered in

January. I do not agree with everything that he says, but I

share with him and Angela Merkel the idea that we need to thing

together about the way we can to transform this fantastic

construction which is the European Union, but it has to face new

challenges. We need to modernise it. I think we must transform Europe in

order to say, how can we be more efficient in competitiveness, in

protection of our citizens. It is a question of immigration,

integration, security. I want to ask you on this issue of taxation.

When you have President Francois Hollande saying that anyone who

earns over one million euros in you back hi?I ? you back hi am

in the opposition party. I was interviewed, a big honour, at the

BBC, I would not be too critical of the President of my country, but

the only th?I ? the only that I do not agree with the choice that

he made to increase taxes. 32 billion euros of taxes. On the high

earners. It is not realistic. It will be very difficult for him,

constitutionally, to pass this law, as it is, it is difficult. But he

has advanced it. And that your party, or you're in a posing it, I

tried to subscribe to the idea that a lot of people have about your

party, that it is the courtyard bling bling. It caused a great deal

of problems for President Nicolas Sarkozy. Perhaps you are too close

to the rich and famous and wealthy. This debate is not a good one. The

problem is not to say whether we are close to the beach or not, the

question is how we can bring back jobs or fairness. -- the wealthy.

How can we be more attractive, more family onshore? This is exactly the

programme that we are building now. -- more value. To show that France

has put it -- fantastic potential, industrial potential, Nuclear

Engineers, centres of research, and what we need now is to implement

structural reforms. We need to decrease public spending, been more

flexibility in the labour market. He is taking those steps. The IMF

Chief of for France has up plaudit President Hollande for the number

of things he has initiated. He says that France needs to be reformed.

He has been applauded for at least acknowledging that. When Mr

Hollande delivered at this beach, I said that if he accepts a sheet to

change the policy and to implement structural reforms, I will support

him. -- a shift. But it is not the situation at the moment. Coming

back to Francois Fillon which was your rival, he is on the record as

saying that in 2017, he will stand for President no matter what. If

Nicolas Sarkozy were to make a comeback, you would stand aside for

him. Is that still the situation? Definitely. But 2017 is a long time.

We will have primaries in every it -- just like every country in the

world. And we will have to win many mid-term elections, and local

elections. We also have European elections. We have decided to work

together with David Cameron. My party and the Conservative Party

have to think about what we can do with Europe in the future. So you

are not ruling it out? You may stand in the 2017 elections? I am

sharing my party until the end of 2015. Many local elections before

that. So it is a possibility. So we could see you both running side by

side, splitting the vote? Maybe. But we will have primaries before

that. Then we will only have one candidate. Am I talking to the

future President of France, briefly? We never know. My task is