General Sher Mohammad Karimi - Head of the Afghan National Army HARDtalk


General Sher Mohammad Karimi - Head of the Afghan National Army

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HARDtalk. International forces are pulling out

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of Afghanistan. By the end of next year, they will be gone completely.

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I am in Kabul at the headquarters of the new Afghan National Army, which

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is taking on the job of keeping the peace here. My guest is the head of

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that army, General Sher Mohammad Karimi. Does he think his troops are

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General Sher Mohammad Karimi, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you.

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Thank you for the invitation. your troops keep Afghanistan safe?

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I'm positive that they can. They have proved knit the last two

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months. Some of the operations will be conducted independently. That is

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a good evidence it will work. some comments, in March from General

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Dunsfor, who said, they are not ready yet. We are ready. What do we

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have? The infrantry forces of the A and A have been really used in

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battle, as a test independently and they proved it. Yes, we are still

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waiting for a lot of equipment. Maybe what he meant that we are not

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ready, he meant which some of the enablers. You see you are aware of

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the mobile strike forces that we have. Three battalions already in

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the field and the fourth one is coming. The forces we are using

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against enemy forces are very, very effective, policing the Army and

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they have proved that. We do have a situation where only last week we

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had the Taliban attacking the building next door to here, right in

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what is meant to be the heart of the safest place in Afghanistan.

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see, if you go into the details of that incident, you will be convinced

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yourself that that was such a sophisticated attack, with all the

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documents they had prepared to deceive all the people guarding.

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They will not let me in without checking my documents if they come

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to that gate. It was a good lesson for all of us. They were defeated.

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You were talking about your fight with the Taliban, yet, at the same

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time, there are plans talks with the Taliban. Unfortunately the Taliban

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are not alone. There are many individuals, organisations, even

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countries supporting the Taliban. We will get on to that in a moment.

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You have said in the past this is a fight about ideas, a fight about a

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way of life. I wonder if that is your belief about the Taliban,

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whether there are any talks that can find some agreement. You see, what I

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hear now, after the issues - there is a lot of changes in the voices of

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the Taliban. They are talking about democracy,

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they are talking about organised Governments. They are talking about

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schools. So, maybe they are either changed positively, or maybe they

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are still under some kind of pressure from the international

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community. Ideally the Taliban are people who

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do not believe in democracy, who do not believe in women's rights and so

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on. But after too many years of fighting, they may have developed as

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well, you know, which is a good well, you know, which is a good

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sign. The answer is to bring them into Government? Yes, I have no

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objection to that, provided they are not against the constitution,

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provided they are not against democracy and they are not against

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women's rights in particular. Human rights as a whole, but particularly

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women's rights. If you think about how you would bring them into

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Government that means ministry, giving them governorships, and

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suddenly you have the Taliban controlling parts of the country.

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they come in, even if they were running for presidency and they get

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all the votes required, I am fully obedient to that leadership F the

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people really choose them. This is the main question. The people, if

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the people of Afghanistan vote to any of the Taliban to run this

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country, through democracy, why not? What support do you think there is

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in the country for the Taliban? What percentage would you put it a at?

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would not put it at a very high percentage. Give us an idea.It

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would be difficult. You have to go district by district and see the

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present situation. Even now in the areas where the Taliban are

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dominate, people stand against them. And the people are really standing

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up to them because they are tired of their atrocities, tired of the

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tyrannies, people are people. They cannot afford - they cannot and the

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public don't have much support. President Karzai calls them "our

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brothers." You often heard disenchanted brothers. It is

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interesting, because at one stage you were imprisoned for a year

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during the Soviet occasion. -- occupation. And then the Taliban

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came along, were you relieved when they came? ? I was relieved before

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they came in. During that regime that I was put in jail, they

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released me after a year-and-a-half and they were still in power.

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hand hurst trained officer, you with were advising... That was a later

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stage and this very building where the Taliban took over, they gathered

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us, the people who were here because I didn't follow any faction. I did

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not follow any factions. I stayed here and they, the Taliban gathered

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the officers and said, you are no longer required, if we want any of

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you, we will call you. After some time they called me to guide them,

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help them on some of the Government issues, particularly and... And how

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did you find it? I hadment no option. I had no option because I

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lived here with miff family. I was forced to wear a turban, forced to

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grow a beard. That was compulsory. Not just for me, for everyone. It

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was not a situation of choice and because I had to stay here with my

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family, for the sake of my family, I could not resist or object to any of

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their wishes to help them. But the thing is, after a while, probably

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they found out that I was fm educated. They took after me. I was

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lucky enough to get away. And here we are in a situation where there

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are prospects of talk wss the Taliban again. I wonder -- prospects

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of talks with the Taliban again. I wonder wonder if it is not a

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betrayal of women. We want to have negotiations with the Taliban. We

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want to share everything with the Taliban, but the question is, the

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main question is not just for us for the whole international community,

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that there should -- they should agree to agree, to accept the

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constitution, because there is nothing in the constitution against

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religious, against Islam. Perhaps part of the reason they are getting

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support is there are doubts about the Afghan National Army N the words

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of ening General Dunsford, hedging behaviour. People don't want to side

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with you for fear of when international forces go, you will

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not be up to the job. You see, it is up to the leadership to convince the

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soldiers, who are to believe, and that is what I am doing. And the

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competition is doing? My soldiers know that why they are fighting for.

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And this is requested from the politicians as well. I have been

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asking from the President all the way down to even the Parliament to

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support it. And how do you... support have you got? How to get

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support, so to see their training, operation, to see their way of life.

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To see their ordeals. You will know the minister for energy and water,

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who was one of the most powerful muj what dean commanders in the country

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is quoted in a number of places saying there are parts of the

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country where Government forces can not operate and there locals should

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step forward, take arms and defend the country. Is he right? You see,

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yes and no. Is it is right his people... If there is a danger of

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attack from outside. Say, if there was an invasion then the Army may

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not be sufficient, then you call on the people. It is the honest duty of

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every individual to defend their country. In that sense... If it is a

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call to arms and be ready. In that sense I agree with him. If we are

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only deelting the enemy, that we are -- dealing the enemy that we are

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dealing with now, we have the Army and the police. It has to be better

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organised, which is organised. We have to improve on that T the rule

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of the Army, the rule of the police and use them in a better way.

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Therefore there is no need for people... Is he right in saying

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there are parts of the country where the Government cannot operate?

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Presently, I do not agree there are four districts that are not in the

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hand of the Government. And you are witness to them that we liberated

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about three or four weeks ago and those four districts will be also

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Lieberman rated in time. We have -- liberated in time. We have all

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plans. I must admit that the enemy's activities have increased. They have

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been told to come and fight in Afghanistan and are ar, very

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extended and vast and the majority are massing the Taliban in different

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places and that is a, a reason for that is political. The political

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reason is, since we have had the Doha and Qatar peace talks, they

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would like to have a better position. To have a better position,

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they have to increase air attacks... And it will get worse? Probably in

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the next two months. OK. Let's talk about the capabilities of the army.

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You have said they have been very successful. We had problems with

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desession, but the police and the Army are getting -- desertions, but

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the police and the Army are getting strong. . I don't have dissergs.

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There is a different between AWOL and dissergs. I have never had any

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deserted from the battlefield. You are very relaxed about when they

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return to work. When they go on leave, when they go home, because of

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some of the transportation problems they may be late. Stiemss they make

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a decision under fam -- sometimes they make a decision under family

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pressure. That is for me... That is not a problem. What do you think is

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the big problem? The big problem, right now for me is some of the

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enablers. The biggest challenge that I have today, but it may not be

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there by 2014 because the plan I have been told, that is going on

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means a lot of transportation and helicopters... Air support.The big

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problem for me right now, the biggest challenge for me is the lack

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of air transportation and air The US is planning to give 40th

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Newt aircraft, but you do not have pilots trained to fly them. You as

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I do. -- yes I do. From the time the programme has started, I am not

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criticising, but it should have started many years ago. It started

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late, so the result will be late. To run the Air Force, the

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helicopters, up I have got good pilots to run them.

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international forces are packing up, everything is being removed, do you

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think they should leave everything? I have asked for some of the

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equipment. I have said to the Russian community they should leave

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some of their equipment because it will be better for them. Some of

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the areas, some of the issues, they are thinking that the equipment is

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sophisticated and it might be difficult for us to use it.

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they are worried they will fall into the wrong hands. Unfortunately,

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that is under estimates -- under estimating the Afghan soldiers. I

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do not agree with them, but I cannot force them to think

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otherwise. There is talk to bring back heavy weapons around the

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border. The threat could be anywhere if you do not have enough

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equipment or enough support. The enemy has heavy weapons as well.

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Up until a couple of years ago there were no thoughts that the

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enemy could shoot aircraft. In that case, when the enemy is getting

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such equipment from somewhere, I have to have the same kind of

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equipment, better equipment, to defend it and think about that. I

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will do anything. I will ask anybody, any country, to help. I

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will ask NATO to give help. I will try to ask my government to provide

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me with some of the equipment. For the army, to solve the problem of

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the army, I would do anything I can. To fight the enemy, and I wonder

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who you think that enemy is? When you think about the Taliban, you

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also think about it being Pakistan? I am trying my best to have good

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relations with Pakistan. Is it hard? The question is, whatever

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policy they have, they don't honestly trust what I am saying to

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them. They still think I may be a threat to them. I am not a threat

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to anybody. I'm not a threat to Pakistan or anybody else. Are they

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a threat to you? Presently, yes. You see it. The Taliban has been

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unleashed to Afghanistan. Is this deliberate policy on the part of

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Pakistan? If it is not deliberate, why are they doing it? Is there a

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question like that if somebody is doing wrong against you. Do you

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think it is a mistake? Can I ask you about the... We have the

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Americans funding the Pakistan government and funding Afghanistan.

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We have this tension along the border. I wonder what you see is

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the way out. I see the way out as the US acting equally on both sides.

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Americans are helping Afghanistan in all different ways. I'm talking

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about military. If you think about the best help that could be given

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to you, would your fight with the Taliban effectively be over if

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Pakistan decided to make it so? it would be done in weeks. You see,

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right now if Pakistan sincerely tries to help the peace process,

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because the Taliban is under their control. The leadership is in

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Pakistan. If they put pressure on the leadership or convince them

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what they should do, it would help a lot. The role of Pakistan we

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cannot deny. Nobody can deny that. It is very important. Pakistan had

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influence in the affairs of Afghanistan since 1978. Up until

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today, they are involved in the political life of Afghanistan.

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talks should be with Pakistan? I have tried. Every meeting has

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been on co-operation along the border against the common enemy.

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The enemy or the terrorists that are hurting me or are today

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suffering through their own creation. Pakistan is suffering

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internally from terrorists as much as I do. We can work together to

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fight this menace, provided they are all sincere in what they are

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doing. There is pressure on the US to stop drone attacks into Pakistan

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and of course the strikes elsewhere. Would you like them to stop? The US

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has not started drone attacks on their own. Pakistan has to ask. No

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country would ever attack another country without some relation.

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Whatever they say in public, privately Pakistan is giving it the

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nod? Of course they have. They have given permission to the US to

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attack the targets of their choice. Pakistan is choosing the target?

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They have given a list already. The people have been killed. Why didn't

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they attack others? What is the answer to that question? I am

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asking you. Drones are used against Taliban who are from Pakistan. They

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are never used against Afghan Taliban members. That is one of the

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issues when I am saying that the peace to Afghanistan can come if

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the US and Pakistan both desire to have peace. Peace is in the hands

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of the US and Pakistan in Afghanistan. And Afghanistan. Of

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course. Afghanistan is the subject. Let's turn to Robert Bales. This

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was the American soldier who has been convicted of killing 16

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civilians, attempted murder of more. You investigated it. We learnt

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recently that yes he has been convicted but the prosecutors will

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not be seeking the death penalty. I wonder how you feel about that.

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you talk to those families that lost their children, their wives,

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their sisters, their fathers, they should tell you what should be done.

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He admits that he doesn't even know why he did it. I saw the children

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in the area. The women who were killed, very brutally. I don't

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think these people will pardon him. I don't think the people will say

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that a life sentence is enough for him. They want the death penalty?

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They want the death penalty. years ago international forces came

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to this country, not only to make Afghanistan safer but to make the

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rest of the world safer. There has been so many tragic stories in the

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time, but do you think they have succeeded in that objective? Yes,

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in certain ways. By coming to Afghanistan, they defeated the

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Taliban, but they did not pursue the Taliban in time. They thought

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the Taliban was finished. They thought Al-Qaeda was finished in

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Afghanistan. Should they have talked to them ten years ago?

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personally talked to many Americans. I said they should not

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underestimate the Taliban. They were tactically defeated, but they

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will reorganise and they would start fighting again. Nobody seemed

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to believe me. Are other countries no safer as a result of what has

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been done here? Had this not happened, they may have been a lot

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of bomb attacks, terrorist activities in many countries. It

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was necessary and has made the world a safer place? It made a

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safer place for Afghanistan. The whole world was going in one

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direction and Afghanistan was going in another direction. Is that

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direction, the direction of democracy and stability, is it

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secure now? From my point of view, yes. It is very, very fragile.

:23:47.:23:50.

Because of the enemy situation, because of what is going to happen

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politically after this. If we are clever enough to handle the

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