Adonis Georgiadis - Minister of Health, Greece HARDtalk

Welcome to HARDtalk. Those who think the worst of the risen Christ is is

happening in Greece. Public sector job cuts at prompted a new wave

extremist violence threatened the strikes. A bailout seems likely

is Greece's controversial health Minister. Adonis Georgiadis. Is

Minister, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank Minister. Adonis Georgiadis. Is

Minister, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank optimists want to believe that

Greece has turned the corner in these last couple of years. It is

not true, is it? It is not only true, we are totally turning a

are clearly an optimist. But if true, we are totally turning a

particularly the crucial figure about Greece's burden of national

debt, the latest figures show that it now stands at well over 300

billion euros. Well over 160% of GDP. That is not sustainable. What

happened, when the crash began, GDP. That is not sustainable. What

billion. But we have saved the banks. Secondly, if we did not have

this programme, we would be over 500 billion euros. What we consider

this programme, we would be over 500 that we are already 200 billion

euros less than we should be at that we are already 200 billion

period of time. If we do our job and keep our agreement, then we will

keep our agreement and we will deliver the European partners what

we promised. They will keep their deliver the European partners what

already had two bailouts from the EU and the IMF. Certain elements of the

agreement have not been kept. For and the IMF. Certain elements of the

example, on privatisation. He said he would raise 20 billion euros

example, on privatisation. He said privatisation. So far you have

raised 3.5 billion. It was out of privatisation. So far you have

raised 3.5 billion. It was out of business from the beginning. I said

publicly that we could not gather 50 billion euros. But this is not the

main problem of the economy. The main problem is to spend less money

for the first year after almost main problem is to spend less money

decade, Greece will spend less money than it should have. This is a clear

and good message that the economy is starting to turn over. You are

bookkeeping is rather rose tinted. burden, your claim that you have

you say that you're going to keep your promises, that says you are

committing yet another round of drastic public sector job cuts.

committing yet another round of you have said that he will resign if

one health sector worker loses their job. I am struggling to see how

one health sector worker loses their are keeping the promises. Let us

take it one by one. Our promise are keeping the promises. Let us

not to have more money totally in our budget, but more money for our

own expenses. This is a different figure. Everybody knows that the

debt is huge. Nobody would believe figure. Everybody knows that the

we needed. But what our European that we could bring more money

we needed. But what our European partners wanted was to see that

we needed. But what our European the first time after many years

Greece would not produce new debt. This is happening for the first

time. Our friends in Europe know that the Greek people made a great

to you, in the health sector we sacrifice. We did not produce any

to you, in the health sector we business in firing people from the

health. The problem is that if everyone of your around the Cabinet

table takes the same attitude, you will never slimmed down the state in

demanded. If I were not Minister of health and if I were Minister in

another office, I would have two fires of people. It is a private

companies. This is happening to fires of people. It is a private

BBC, it is happening to Apple, it is happening to all the businesses

BBC, it is happening to Apple, it is the world. It is not such a problem.

It is a problem for the people losing their jobs. We know that

It is a problem for the people Greek public—sector workers are

It is a problem for the people strike yet again. The high school

service is going on strike this problem. The public is not prepared

to take any more austerity. The teachers, the percentage of the

people who strike were 80% of the first day and today it was less

people who strike were 80% of the Practically nobody was in a strike.

austerity measures. But this is Our society is under Apec pressure.

austerity measures. But this is something that was really amazing,

more trouble. Everybody wants to something that was really amazing,

more trouble. Everybody wants to understands that the money coming

seems to be that you will need understands that the money coming

the short term, some people think it will be more in the long—term. But

for the troika to deliver that, will be more in the long—term. But

are clearly going to ask for new austerity measures. There is talk of

you having to eliminate the state defence altogether. There is also

talk of having to foreclose on people behind on their mortgages.

Are you prepared to take that step? Yesterday I met with the troika

Are you prepared to take that step? discussion on the economy. I said we

could not take any more horizontal austerity measures. Society would

not tolerate them. I am totally convinced that they will not ask

horizontal austerity measures. What they want to see is greater progress

of reforms. Minister, I am sure they want to see is greater progress

you have watched what has happened in Germany likely. Angela Merkel,

says there will be absolutely no change in Germany policy towards the

bailouts. That means the Germans are still going to be demanding of

Greece. I will just grow to you still going to be demanding of

words of your former party leader when you are in a more right—wing

show his feelings? Of course not. party. He said that we can survive

show his feelings? Of course not. That is why I left the party. What

he said is nonsense. Angela Merkel and the German people are friends of

Greece. They have given us the last three years more than 60 billion

euros. Nobody else has given us British people have. But you did

money. I would like to say that taxpayers why she has given so much

not. We understand Angela Merkel. taxpayers why she has given so much

distant people and we will always pay our debt. We will give our money

back to the German people and we can. This will make our friendship

stronger. We have no doubt about that. They believe that Greece would

be bankrupt and they would lose their money. I have to say to the

British people, they have to be totally sure that Greece is and

British people, they have to be still be a member of the Rose and

for the decades that will come. still be a member of the Rose and

more public sector jobs by the end of the year. We know that your own

health Ministry is in the process of downsizing a significant number

health Ministry is in the process of hospitals in cities like Athens

health Ministry is in the process of the Salonika. How much more do you

believe you can take this process? Before the fabric of the quick

economy and the social services begins to collapse? —— Greek. I

economy and the social services speaking to an expert from Britain.

He said that all the programmes speaking to an expert from Britain.

the hospitals were the same as those in Great Britain in the 1980s. I

remember Margaret Thatcher did that. in Great Britain in the 1980s. I

will finish in two weeks. Not even the 80s. It is not a big deal.

collapse. You are the Minister What have seen the suicide rate doubled

since the beginning of the crisis. There are many different indicators

that suggest your people are not feeling well being. They are feeling

increasingly sickened by austerity. I will not pretend that the times

are reasonable. They are difficult. austerity measures. It is a very

hard time. All of these problems are not only from the crisis. I will

have an increase of HIV. But it not only from the crisis. I will

increased not only from the economic crisis, but through many people

increased not only from the economic came illegally to Greece. Greece is

in an area where everyone can enter Europe through Greece. This has

nothing to do with the economic crisis. It is a public problem.

nothing to do with the economic truth is, we have problems but for

country. We believe that in a couple the first time we have hope in this

country. We believe that in a couple of months we will see some great

progress in Greek society. Let us of months we will see some great

progress in Greek society. Let us stick with HIV. Which you have

raised. Why was your first decision to reinstate a law which had been

people in your country? A hope —— a suspended with allow the police

people in your country? A hope —— a whole host of groups have condemned

medical ethics. —— HIV—AIDS. What I that as a fundamental challenge

medical ethics. —— HIV—AIDS. What I did, I put the law again on track. I

called into the offers all of the people for human rights and all

called into the offers all of the the people in the medical ward to

discuss the new law and we are now putting before Parliament a new

discuss the new law and we are now that says that the police can make

it easy examination is because many people in Athens are worried but

think that with this court order, we can respect the human rights of

think that with this court order, we these people that may be infected by

HIV or other diseases but at the same time, we will protect our

population from a very grave danger. Let us be blunt and honest. It was a

populist measure you talk which essentially stigmatises some of

populist measure you talk which most vulnerable people living in

Greece today. It has been condemned by Amnesty International, by Human

Rights Watch, by doctors of the World, even by the medical journal

as being fundamentally antithetical to medical ethics. It has already

been changed by a new law that says now that we have to have a court

examinations from the police. Nobody felt that we did not respect the

concerns of all the people you felt that we did not respect the

concerns of all the people you mentioned before, in the real world,

they did not have anything to do. I have to ask you another question.

all the other people, the majority have to ask you another question.

all the other people, the majority of the population, that they work

there and live in the centre of of the population, that they work

there and live in the centre of minister, I have to respect the

have to respect the human rights of minister, I have to respect the

worrying issue of extremism in your middle. This new law will be on

worrying issue of extremism in your brutally murdered. Since then, your

those responsible for his killing brutally murdered. Since then, your

those responsible for his killing as, and I quote, "the descendants of

the Nazis." How could you about as, and I quote, "the descendants of

rise of violent extremism in Greece the truth is that I am concerned.

The truth is that this crisis gave birth to a real monster. Golden

The truth is that this crisis gave democracy and everyone in Greece

understand that we cannot tolerate Nazism. What our government is doing

political system, we try to find measures to stop them by polluting

our society with hate. Many people in Greece have lost their jobs.

our society with hate. Many people people in Greece are furious about

the system. Many people in Greece have lost hope about our democracy

and we have to gain them back. It will not be an easy task at we are

determined to do it. Let us talk about the allegations that we have

seen in the press in recent days that there are connections between

activists in Golden Dawn, the very far right grouping, and elements

within the police and the security forces. Do you believe that to be

I believe that at some points, it is I believe that at some points, it is

true. I understand that some people in the police were not Nazis or

something like that but they felt a little bit sympathetic to this

understood how dangerous the party party. I believe it was because

understood how dangerous the party was. What our government did, Alan

Minister took a very tough decision and a very fast decision. —— Power

Minister. That our democracy would not tolerate Golden Dawn. Golden

and we will do it. You say that Dawn is not the far right. It is a

and we will do it. You say that clearly to me and yet you sit in a

significant number of MPs. If they Parliament where Golden Dawn has a

significant number of MPs. If they are what you say they are, Nazis,

and other members of your government have described it as a criminal

alongside them in the Parliament? What do you propose? To beat them

out? I would suggest that many people watching this would suggest

that you render them illegal. It is not an easy way to do it. First

that you render them illegal. It is all, our Constitution does not

permit that. As you know... Your own Deputy Prime Minister has described

organisation! How can you have a criminal organisation sitting in

your Parliament? Betsy, we say that it is a criminal organisation but in

order to be banished, a court might this —— must decide that they are

understand that we are still a What we did as the government is

that we put them in the court and the court will decide if they are a

criminal organisation. If the court said that they are, then they will

be out of Parliament. But this are not a tyranny. We are not a

dictatorship and the Prime Minister cannot decide by himself. We must

respect the Constitution and our acceptable that the state continues

to provide funding for Golden Dawn as, right now, one of the biggest

parties in Greece, the third biggest party in Greece by some measures?

State funding for them is still acceptable in your view? There is

already a proposal from the Minister for interior affairs to take the

in a difficult position, speaking think that this will happen. We

in a difficult position, speaking against extremists in Golden Dawn

people from the far left say that against extremists in Golden Dawn

these years and know that I was for me as an accusation. All of

these years and know that I was never even sympathetic to these

ideas. This is the reason that the people from Golden Dawn had hit

ideas. This is the reason that the twice in the past and hate me even

more than anyone else. They may twice in the past and hate me even

that you have betrayed value that you want presented? You cannot deny

that you were once a member of the Allows political party for a long

time, and the leader of which was known as an anti—immigrant speaker?

There are many quotes to back that up. For example, in 2000, he said

"we are the only wheel bricks, not communists. " He was the party

leader to whom you gave your loyalty for eight or nine years. —— the

leader to whom you gave your loyalty real Greeks. The people from Golden

Dawn had hit on me twice. Twice real Greeks. The people from Golden

was look the member of the last party. Not because I betrayed the

They had hit on me as a member of the Laos party. That was not a Nazi

party. In 2000, they did not exist. He was a Member of Parliament with

new democracy. His party in the He was a Member of Parliament with

I was there, never said anything anti—Semitic and me personally,

I was there, never said anything anti—Semitic in my life. Minister,

you must appreciate the difficulty. extraordinary concerned about the

rise of what you have described extraordinary concerned about the

Nazi element in your country. You stand accused by the Central board

of Jewish communities in Greece stand accused by the Central board

insulting, anti—Jewish views. That is a direct quote from the Jewish

organisation. You have a problem. No, no. You can call the president

questions you do now. You can read For two months, he was asked by

questions you do now. You can read what the Jewish president of the

Jewish committee said and read it to what the Jewish president of the

extremists. How do you believe that your people that are now watching.

extremists. How do you believe that your government is going to overcome

it? I believe that since we exited started solving the problem of the

people, we will be able to defend our democracy, extremism. The real

democracy. And more hope and believe that democracy is for the people. It

more democracy produces another significant result for Golden Dawn

elections, I use an me that they are, in future, will not be allowed

to be represented in the Greek Parliament? —— are you saying to

me. That there are time is over Parliament? —— are you saying to

Greek democracy? Lynn Win Nye I Parliament? —— are you saying to

totally sure that our democracy Parliament? —— are you saying to

is ready to defend herself from Golden Dawn. —— I'm totally sure.

Adonis Georgiadis, thank you very much for being on HARDtalk. Thank