Browse content similar to Damian McBride - Special Adviser to the British Prime Minister (2005 - 2009). Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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in Britons suggests public faith in plummeted in the last decade. Why? A | :00:00. | :00:26. | |
lot of powerful reasons lying on the pages of a dark political memoir | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
written by my guests today. Damian McBride was the spin doctor for | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
former British prime minister Gordon leaks and a host of dirty tricks to | :00:36. | :00:45. | |
serve his master's interests and undermine his enemies. In the past, | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
Damian McBride never let the truth stand in his way. So what about | :00:52. | :01:28. | |
HARDtalk. You disappeared from British politics in 2009. It is | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
HARDtalk. You disappeared from to say it was in disgrace. You have | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
now reappeared, revealing a great deal about a very sordid political | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
you done that? During that period, life that you were living. Why have | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
you done that? During that period, for around 1.5 years I had my tail | :01:48. | :01:48. | |
between my legs. I guess wanted for around 1.5 years I had my tail | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
disappear and start a new life. for around 1.5 years I had my tail | :01:54. | :02:02. | |
they reconcile the person I am now interested in what I had done. The | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
they reconcile the person I am now with what I did. In having that | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
about it myself. They started to with what I did. In having that | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
about it myself. They started to think about what I had been through. | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
You had not thought about each and the time? You were telling me you | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
never thought about it? I did not the time? You were telling me you | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
never thought about it? I did not reflect on it. In the moment I would | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
think about how it had gone. I did reflection, being outside of that | :02:34. | :02:42. | |
life and not being able to justify it myself as politics. I did start | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
out saying to people, that is just political life, they would say, | :02:48. | :02:56. | |
out saying to people, that is just differently. I wanted to tell the | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
story from that point of view. We look at the story in detail. A lot | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
of people will not know what you did and why you did it. I want to be | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
blunt, because your profession has been that over the years. It seems | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
that you did this mostly for money. You have been desperately short | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
that you did this mostly for money. money. We have written it in a way | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
that is guaranteed you a lot of through serialisation rights, a | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
that is guaranteed you a lot of of money. I came into this with | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
that is guaranteed you a lot of expectations about generating money. | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
I said I would generate the sales to publishers that I could expect to | :03:36. | :03:47. | |
get somewhere between £20,000 and £30,000. You got much more than | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
that? I received £100,000. That £30,000. You got much more than | :03:50. | :04:05. | |
Party. How on earth can you take who professes loyalty to the Labor | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
Party. How on earth can you take their money? When it comes down | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
Party. How on earth can you take things, it is to the highest bidder. | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
judgement if you want. Once you things, it is to the highest bidder. | :04:13. | :04:22. | |
expecting a lot of money. It has a deal with the publisher, it said | :04:22. | :04:45. | |
expecting a lot of money. It has done well. I have been taken by | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
surprise as much as anyone. One understand it, the Catholic relief | :04:51. | :04:58. | |
charity that you work for, that understand it, the Catholic relief | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
wanted to give the money to from the royalties, they say they do not | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
wanted to give the money to from the to touch it. They regard it as dirty | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
because of the revelations you have delivered about the way you live to | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
political life. That must be, at the understand it from their point of | :05:17. | :05:30. | |
organisation. Many of the supporters had read what they read a did not | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
want the charity associated with it. Many of them have voiced complaints | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
about that. The charity, which is driven by supporters, said they | :05:39. | :05:46. | |
about that. The charity, which is a distance. Does it make you feel | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
so many of the supporters feel they do not want to take your money, | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
so many of the supporters feel they their good causes, it must make | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
so many of the supporters feel they feel that you have no future in | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
so many of the supporters feel they organisation? From my point of view, | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
that is a judgement based on what I did in the past. If this book is | :06:10. | :06:10. | |
unacceptable, they do not want the money. Based on what I have done the | :06:10. | :06:18. | |
separately. They say they are still money. Based on what I have done the | :06:18. | :06:30. | |
reviewing your future employment in reviewing your future employment | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
future. I will do my job every day the association. It sounds to me as | :06:34. | :06:48. | |
future. I will do my job every day recognise that. We would get into | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
politics operated around Gordon what you have revealed about the way | :06:50. | :06:57. | |
politics operated around Gordon Brown and what you did. You launched | :06:57. | :06:58. | |
the book to coincide with the Labour Party Conference. At the conference, | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
people who read the extracts in Party Conference. At the conference, | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
newspapers, former friends of yours unconscionable. Many of them former | :07:08. | :07:18. | |
friends. Were you taken aback by their reaction? I say worse things | :07:18. | :07:33. | |
conduct. The thing I was taken aback by, from a media point of view, | :07:33. | :07:46. | |
conduct. The thing I was taken aback then to add to that with some over | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
the top hysterical reactions, it did not help play down. You chose to go | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
in that and make a big moisture not help play down. You chose to go | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
that and make a big noise to Rio conference. You knew, because you | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
are the master spinner, you knew it would cause an enormous destruction. | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
These things always go both ways. You generate a story because there | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
is some sense of conflict. If the reaction had been to play it down, | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
as I did in different parts of my career, we would always try to play | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
a book down, we did not want to addressing now is the content of the | :08:19. | :08:30. | |
book. It is a litany of leaks, smears, dirty tricks. It is lies, | :08:30. | :08:40. | |
told by you, to further the interest of your boss, Gordon Brown. Did | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
told by you, to further the interest see yourself at the time as a serial | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
the most part that I did not do liar? No, I was quite careful for | :08:49. | :09:06. | |
the most part that I did not do do things in extreme. They give | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
the most part that I did not do premiership is on a knife edge. | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
the most part that I did not do amongst union delegates that if | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
the most part that I did not do walked out there would be civil | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
the most part that I did not do in the Labor Party. They way I did | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
that was going around saying that David Miliband is saying this, those | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
things are made up. I was only able established credibility. I can count | :09:28. | :09:37. | |
on one hand over the years when journalist would render the day | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
after I had done a story and say, mindset. You are quite conflicted | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
about how you explain to yourself what you were doing. On one hand you | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
say the whole system encourages politicians and their staff to | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
greed, hypocrisy. You say you were sucked in. In a sense, you are | :09:58. | :10:05. | |
blaming the system. At other times, you have been flat out honest, | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
seeing that you told lies, you computer, I am much if it was with | :10:09. | :10:19. | |
confidential information, you cast slanders and smears of various | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
people. Which wasn't, was at the well—developed dark side before | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
people. Which wasn't, was at the went anywhere near politics. A | :10:29. | :10:38. | |
recognise that. I was already a function and alcoholic for a got | :10:38. | :10:38. | |
anywhere near the political system. function and alcoholic for a got | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
anywhere near the political system. The longer I was in politics, the | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
but a dark side is an interesting worst may be heavy came. I recognise | :10:44. | :10:58. | |
but a dark side is an interesting phrase. You were a bad person? I had | :10:58. | :11:07. | |
but a dark side is an interesting see it as a form of combat between | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
Gordon Brown's and Tony Blair's camp, it was dangerously corruptive | :11:08. | :11:22. | |
key point. Were you a bad person with malign instincts? Do not think | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
it is all I was, but I had that with malign instincts? Do not think | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
to me. To the extent I did not care about some of the people I was | :11:31. | :11:38. | |
affecting. Hurting in a very real way. Some people were collateral | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
damage. They got hurt as a result of use to say to myself was, I was | :11:45. | :11:56. | |
first by myself by seeing how was doing a lot of good work. I drove | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
through a lot of reforms of the doing a lot of good work. I drove | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
system which were intrinsically good. I would balance this in my own | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
head, I would say I do good things and bad things, but it balances | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
head, I would say I do good things I could not look back on any of | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
head, I would say I do good things because of the bad things. For | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
people who are not familiar with the record, some of the people you went | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
after using all of these dirty tricks, including senior labour | :12:23. | :12:32. | |
figures, he who cast aspersions about his past, drinking, Ivan | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
Lewis, a junior minister who you taught a lesson because he tried to | :12:36. | :12:48. | |
leaked allegations against you. stand up to you one. —— once. He | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
leaked allegations against you. These stories alone. They give an | :12:54. | :12:54. | |
indication of how low you went. These stories alone. They give an | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
are going after enemies of Gordon Brown. Gordon Brown you wish you | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
the mafia don. The mafia dons is not the mafia don. The mafia dons is not | :13:06. | :13:30. | |
somebody. I never had orders to the mafia don. The mafia dons is not | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
up these people. His attitude over the years was that he was a take out | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
a rival, this book would have been stories full of taking on Alan | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
Johnston. How often do you speak to Gordon Brown? Everyday. Several | :13:43. | :13:53. | |
times a day. So when these keep moments happens, the press were | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
times a day. So when these keep of stories, you obviously talked to | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
him? The Ivan Lewis will stand out. That was very obvious that I was | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
responsible. He knew you had done. It was obvious to a large number of | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
people. They complain about that story. I like to his face. When | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
people. They complain about that came back to base, having carried | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
out the hit, whether it be on John Reid or Charles Clarke. Gordon Brown | :14:21. | :14:34. | |
knew who was behind it. It was you. newspapers and then there would | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
knew who was behind it. It was you. that kind of discussion. I did not | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
come back and told Gordon... The issue is that they are not of moral | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
practices you we using. It is now it is inconceivable that Gordon | :14:48. | :15:00. | |
practices you we using. It is now terribly damaging to him that he is | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
to resign, nobody has said that not coming out addressing the issue | :15:04. | :15:14. | |
to resign, nobody has said that Gordon Brown and new... You should | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
not have been in a job in 2009, frankly. When Gordon Brown realise | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
the result. He liked the results of that this sort of practices you | :15:20. | :15:32. | |
results of you destroying people who everything else I did. He liked | :15:32. | :15:44. | |
results of you destroying people who would be his speech splashing in the | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
Times and the Guardian. That is white I delivered. What I said in | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
the book, or while there was a lot of criticism of me at the time, | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
the book, or while there was a lot what stage was this post is a all | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
that positive briefing you do, getting my story and the gender | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
that positive briefing you do, in the media, you know, at what | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
point should he say, I will give all complaints about the things you | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
point should he say, I will give all been accused of but I do not know if | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
you have done them not. Your version of logic — the people you work close | :16:17. | :16:25. | |
to — they utterly deny having any inkling of what you were about | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
whereas, other people quite clearly Milliband complained. There were | :16:30. | :16:39. | |
people in the press who knew exactly what you are about. The only people | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
who did not know where those closest to you and that is incredible, isn't | :16:43. | :16:52. | |
it? There was a huge premium about producing stories about what I | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
is because I have chosen to make people know about these stories | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
is because I have chosen to make them public. There were certain | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
legal issues which made people very Balls, senior Chancellor, when he | :17:10. | :17:22. | |
says what you did was hideous, wrong, unconscionable, I have never | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
seen people behave in this way, wrong, unconscionable, I have never | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
statement really credible? It is all correct. I say it in the book, in | :17:28. | :17:41. | |
April 2009, when told this story correct. I say it in the book, in | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
about my resigning, a bull was the only person who screamed at me —— | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
about my resigning, a bull was the of the staff. Have you been doing | :17:53. | :17:53. | |
well? Gino... You know, you are of the staff. Have you been doing | :17:53. | :18:10. | |
is therefore difficult for me to sit here and take absolutely at face | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
value everything you say about Gordon Brown and Ed. If people like | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
Miliband and new and in different activities, it is frankly stretching | :18:23. | :18:31. | |
credibility be on breaking point they did not know. Ed Milliband | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
credibility be on breaking point that after the election, I was | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
responsible for our briefing about They knew that was untrue. Even | :18:41. | :18:49. | |
though that became the source of Ed Milliband's complained, they were | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
not willing to accept that because they knew I was not capable of | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
that. In some ways, part of the reason I wrote this book is I was | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
frankly tired of being blamed lots of things I had not done. In some | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
ways, I could only say, this is of things I had not done. In some | :19:01. | :19:10. | |
truth. I explained the things I did. Even in this interview you | :19:10. | :19:18. | |
truth. I explained the things I you are still labour through a | :19:18. | :19:18. | |
through. You have done an enormous you are still labour through a | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
through. You have done an enormous amount of damage to the party and | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
continue to do it. That is not show in the opinion polls, frankly. This | :19:26. | :19:26. | |
will be forgotten by the time the in the opinion polls, frankly. This | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
will be forgotten by the time the election comes around. You have | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
will be forgotten by the time the this money, why do you give it to be | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
the money I get will be going to this money, why do you give it to be | :19:36. | :19:50. | |
the money I get will be going to good causes. I do not think Liberal | :19:50. | :19:50. | |
voters would want the money to go to good causes. I do not think Liberal | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
voters would want the money to go to the Labor Party. Frankly, I am | :19:53. | :19:54. | |
service, you got in the Treasury thinking about the money and what to | :19:54. | :20:07. | |
service, you got in the Treasury very young people thought you were | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
very good. You ended up with a self—confessed alcoholic with a | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
political career in ruins. What self—confessed alcoholic with a | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
it say about the political culture in Britain in light of your demise? | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
Did not spot these problems early enough. When I got invited to the | :20:26. | :20:33. | |
political side, it was at a point when I did something within the | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
civil servant —— service. At that point, the should be to collect | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
civil servant —— service. At that saying this guy has bad instincts. | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
This guy will do things and cut corners. There should have been | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
This guy will do things and cut intervention. It then became a | :20:58. | :20:58. | |
political problem. Is there not intervention. It then became a | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
bigger problem here? In a way, you are succeeding in politics. Your | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
memoir is completely divorced from IDS, beliefs, the bigger picture is | :21:08. | :21:15. | |
— all you were obsessed about was tomorrow's headlines as were your | :21:15. | :21:22. | |
something very wrong with that. That is not the way I thought about it. I | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
knew with all the talks had with Gordon Brown and others... That | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
knew with all the talks had with not the way you betrayed Gordon | :21:33. | :21:34. | |
Brown. He is absolutely upset with not the way you betrayed Gordon | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
Brown. He is absolutely upset with tomorrow's papers. They were not of | :21:40. | :21:40. | |
the kinds of discussions I had. tomorrow's papers. They were not of | :21:40. | :21:50. | |
Blair and Brown and the feuding tomorrow's papers. They were not of | :21:50. | :21:51. | |
infighting was about aspiration tomorrow's papers. They were not of | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
issues. The euro, the Constitution power. How for its own sake. I do | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
issues. The euro, the Constitution and everything else. Do you really | :22:04. | :22:05. | |
believe that? There were occasions like August 2006 where it was just | :22:05. | :22:14. | |
about who got into power. But till headlines and the media is that | :22:14. | :22:24. | |
about who got into power. But till was my job to win him the space | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
about who got into power. But till needed to succeed to the top job and | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
then bring his vision to bear. Did think anything has changed — the | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
journalists, the degree to which politicians regard politics as a | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
game — has that changed? Did danger is that it does not and we repeat | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
those mistakes. To the extent that there will be any benefit to their | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
political system is that it will be very difficult for politicians and | :22:53. | :23:02. | |
their advisers act the way I acted. Have you ended up a bitter man? | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
their advisers act the way I acted. was struck by a thing he wrote — I | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
subsumed my life to Gordon for a long time and I have nothing to | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
subsumed my life to Gordon for a for it? It was a long time. 13 | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
years. My life could have gone in a different direction, my personal | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
life as well. You have made some terrible decisions. Do you feel | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
life as well. You have made some can get your life back? Have you | :23:27. | :23:28. | |
basically blown it? I cannot take those years back. You can not get | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
has been the case since 2009. The your reputation back, really. That | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
has been the case since 2009. The starting point for any of that, | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
has been the case since 2009. The building any kind of future is to be | :23:40. | :23:41. | |
honest about what you have done religious man, you work within the | :23:41. | :23:50. | |
the past. I measure myself with religious man, you work within the | :23:50. | :24:10. | |
cathartic process. I started out maker? Much more than before I | :24:10. | :24:18. | |
cathartic process. I started out thinking, what lies to I tell in | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
when it came to it, when I found order to be able to get this book | :24:20. | :24:30. | |
when it came to it, when I found myself glossing over the truth and | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
the stories and the people I had hurt and damage, I thought, you | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
the stories and the people I had not being honest with yourself and | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
you will not be able to look friends who know how you behaved in the | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
you will not be able to look friends Damian McBride, we have to end it | :24:45. | :24:45. |