Nelson Mandela - Former President of South Africa HARDtalk


Nelson Mandela - Former President of South Africa

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decisions on what we pay for. Now onto it be seen News, a special

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HARDtalk from the archives, an interview with Nelson Mandela from

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1997. Nelson Mandela, the first black

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president of South Africa and a figure of towering moral authority

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has died. His extraordinary life has been remembered and celebrated, not

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just in South Africa, but around the world. Ten years ago, I interviewed

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President Mandela for a special edition of HARDtalk, when he was in

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Britain for the Commonwealth conference. We told about his life,

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his love and his earliest days in South Africa's liberation trial.

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his love and his earliest days in South Africa's liberation trial

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You statesman of renown. Perhaps one of the most highly respected

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politicians on the planet. I am just an old man, I thank you. Reading

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your book, you talk about an early light as they heard ball it in the

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rolling hills. `` and heard boy. rolling hills. `` and heard boy

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When you look out, is this what you thought would happen? It is

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collective leadership. Right from the early days of joining the

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organisation, the problems of liberation, and of returning the

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power of liberation... Can never be the achievement of a single

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individual. Essentially, the type of problems that can be addressed, it

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is through teamwork. Of people who understand that a collective effort

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is absolutely necessary. He is a man, I was with him. We were

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from the Youth League together. I have all respect. If they clashed

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with them I know I was in the wrong because he was such a perfect

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gentleman and so a never thought of me being a president of the country

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because I was satisfied and satisfied with the principle of

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connection and also I had a great deal of respect for Oliver Tambo

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because he was a highly gifted person. You described a as by ``

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diabolical. Can you remember back to a time when you felt the full force

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of apartheid. I don't wind as the politician but personally. `` don't

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mean as a politician. How humiliating apartheid has been in

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the past. I spent 4.5 years as an accused in court and mighty economic

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position was completely undermined. The fact that I was sent to jail for

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life, I spent 27 years the. There are things that affected me, and I

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had experiences. You were put away for 27 years, 27 of the best years

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of your life. What is the cost of that incarceration to Nelson

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Mandela, the man? I would like to thank our bit and not in terms of

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cost, I like to think in terms of the advantages which I gained from

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being, for serving a long sentence. The ability to sit down and to think

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about your past. The present. The future. The ability to be able to

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see yourself in action in the past and the mistakes and weaknesses

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which you committed and witnesses in the course of your work and she look

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back. The excitement for the future, and I found it very

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rewarding. But look at the sacrifice, wouldn't you say your

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family life suffered, your marriage is offered? No, but I am not the

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only one. There were thousands of people in similar and even worse

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positions. At least I made a lot of friends and when I was in jail, many

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people inside and outside the country supported my family. But if

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I may say so, as a married man, the thought that I couldn't provide,

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I may say so, as a married man, the thought that I couldn't provide

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care and tendered to the people that I love, would fetch me an

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enormously. It must have been horrible for 27 years. Oh yes. This

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was one of the things. My wife, Winnie, was without security. She

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was undergoing humiliation, persecution by the regime. My

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children also subjected to such persecution. They go to school and

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the police, look, he is an African child, he has no rights in the

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school. I have watched you these last few years and South Africa, the

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last few years and South Africa the way you build bridges, the way you

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are able to see people, the way they work, you did so much, but there is

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one man and a sea that chemistry. `` I don't see that chemistry. The

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click. That is not a correct position.

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He is a businessman. He was criticised and I got up and they

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said, he has made a lot of mistakes, some of them fundamental as all of

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us have done. He was never forgetting the role he played in

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this country. He ensured that he mobilises his own lobby to join the

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process of peaceful transformation. Had it not been for the contribution

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that he made, the process of transformation in this country would

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have taken... Then all the more difficult. Whether over camp or not,

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I must acknowledge what he has achieved, the contribution he has

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made and I can say with all humility. You made reconciliation

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one of the central themes of your presidency, your presidency and

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South Africa. The youth feel the white people of South Africa have

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travelled the same distance as the black people ? `` do you feel. If

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the white people and this country were not travelling on the same

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distance, we have achieved it because of the cooperation we have

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got from all of them. I am telling you about specifically the fact that

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I was able to build, use your resources, old schools, `` build. I

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am talking about as individuals. am talking about as individuals

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Secondly, we have now posted a 13 Secondly, we have now posted a 13

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separate education departments, we have one Education Department. We

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have opened the doors of learning to everyone. The whites have been very

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educated at losing this. We had 11 languages on the same races. Where

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does this idea come from that the whites have not made the same

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sacrifices that we have? And you consider this, you have done

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everything you can to reconcile this country, this country that has the

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more divided and yesterday it any other we can think of. You have done

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that with great flair and success. There are some people who say that

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was the easy part, that you are leaving for your successor, the hard

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business of redistribution, the hard business of taking from one group

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and giving to the other. Well, that is a misconception. To imagine that

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I was acting alone, we must get rid of this. I have on countless

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occasions said I have been working with a team and in that team that

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our men and women who are more capable than I, and I say this not

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from the point of view of any humility. I am stating a fact. Some

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of them are more capable than I am and what I do is not something that

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a thought of. It is something that we discussed and the leadership of

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that will remain behind. They have been in the centre of what is

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happening in this country. I also admired my audiences. Especially

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after my Nobel Peace Price. `` Nobel Peace Prize. Nobody knew of Oliver

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Tambo. He disappeared. Oliver Tambo emerged and put the Congress in a

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position they had never reached before. It became a movement and we

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were able to protect South Africa. He has done very well. He has been a

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disciple of Oliver Tambo and a don't doubt that. If he is elected, as

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president of ANC and the decision lies with them, we don't have

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successes but it appears to me that this is one of the most talented

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people who could easily bring about a lot of respect for the position of

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the presidency. I don't know anyone better qualified than himself to

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occupy this position. I said on several occasions that the fact of

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the President of South Africa... Now the President of South Africa.. Now

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a ceremonial president and he has done very, very well because I am

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pushing important duties to him. done very, very well because I am

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pushing important duties to him. It sounds like a blessing. Last in the

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Africa. The very month that your people found the freedom, the people

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of Rwanda were caught in the midst of genocide. Which is the real

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Africa? We must not exaggerate. It has taken place in Europe throughout

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history. It has taken place, it is just taking place in Yugoslavia. You

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just taking place in Yugoslavia You have the case of Pol Pot in Asia.

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Thousands of people were slaughtered. And you have had a

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clash between Russia and Chechnya, in which a lot of people died. We

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are having the same thing in Afghanistan. And there have been

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disturbances in places like India and elsewhere. So, these problems

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are not confined to Africa. And Rwanda is a comparatively small

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country in relation to the rest of Africa. Africa is doing very well.

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They are addressing their problem. They have now rediscovered, with the

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annihilation of colonies and that racism, African Unity. It embraces

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all countries. That organisation has produced eminent people, like the

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Secretary general. These are outstanding statesman, not only in

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relation to Africa but in relation to the entire world. And they are

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addressing such problems as happened in Rwanda. They persisted, for

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example, in ensuring that very big continent has now been given a

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government that is democratic. When you talked of and African

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Renaissance, can you really call it that when Nigeria isn't democratic,

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where there has been a coup d'etat. Is that really a Renaissance? It

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depends who you are and how you look at events. If they are going to pick

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up isolated events, and now, the positive developments that are

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taking place, you can be concerned. But if you look at the entire

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canvas, then you will have no other conclusion than to say, Africa is

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rising to its challenges. President Mandela, you are coming towards the

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end of your presidency of your party and later the country. How do you

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want to be remembered? It is better to leave that to the public. It

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would be arrogant for me to say, to leave that to the public. It

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would be arrogant for me to say, this is how I want to be remembered.

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Throughout my life, I have made my mistakes. I hope I have made

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achievements as well. But it is for the world to decide how they will

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remember me. And the basis of my record `` on the basis. It would be

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arrogant for me to say, this is how I want to be remembered. Will you

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miss the struggle, the politics When I am dead or now? When you step

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down. Given that I will still be participating. I will remember a

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member of the ANC in whatever service they want before. So, I will

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be right there, except I won't have any office. Now, for the future You

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are a man in love? As I told you, we don't discuss these things in

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public, from the point of view of my culture. But it is wonderful for

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me, as anybody else, to be in love. Mr Mandela, thank you very much for

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talking to us. You are welcome. Things are turning a little bit

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milder. For most of us, the weekend will be dry but cloudy. It will be a

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drab affair but it won't be as stormy as it has been over the past

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48 hours. The low pressure is well away from the UK. Bringing stormy

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conditions to other parts of northern Europe. This warm front is

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moving in. 12 degrees in Milford Haven on Friday. We still have the

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cold air across the extreme north`east. Minus in Shetland on

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Friday. Still cold here. There could be a few centimetres of snow in

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places. The risk of icy conditions in parts of northern England and

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Scotland. Still little bit of snow to come in the extreme north`east

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during Saturday but I'm up for most places, it will be great. With a

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little bit of

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