Browse content similar to 27/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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have been problems with that contract in its early days. We | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
believe this situation is improving but there still to be made. Order. | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
Point of order, Mr Speaker. A plethora of points of order. Last | :00:14. | :00:20. | |
Friday after debates on Private Members' Bills, the honourable | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
member for Redcar left the chamber and briefed to the media at large | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
that my speech on the Istanbul convention had stopped her bill from | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
being debated and had in effect blocked it, despite me saying I | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
supported her bill. This has led to my office receiving some widespread | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
and unjustified abuse that they should not be subjected to. The | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
honourable lady for Redcar's bill was the eighth to be considered on | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
Friday. You have a better memory for parliamentary proceedings the mates | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
but perhaps you could tell me the last time the eight Bill was | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
received for debate. I have asked the library to tell me, so far they | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
have gone back 12 years and have not found one example of when the eighth | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
bill for debate was reached. If I had not spoken, we would still not | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
have reached that Bill but by this logic, the honourable lady for Banff | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
and Buchan should be blamed for blocking it by refusing to have her | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
report stayed. The animal cruelty Bill... The honourable gentleman | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
must come to a point of order for me, but he equally must be heard. It | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
could still have been nobbled at the end of the day but must have been | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
blocked by sombre day, I was not in the chamber at the time, so could | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
you confirm that no analysis of the procedure is good believe my speech | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
on the first bill could have prevented the eighth bill from | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
taking place, and I could not have blocked the bill as I was not in the | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
chamber when it was objected to by somebody else? Could to confirm I am | :02:17. | :02:25. | |
straightforward, if I say I support a bill then I support it, and could | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
you finally make it clear that it is irresponsible for members to give | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
the public a false picture of proceedings and dangerous because it | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
encourages some violent abuse on our stuff which can have some dangerous | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
consequences? I am grateful to him for his point of order and advance | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
notice of it. First, nothing disorderly occurred on Friday. | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
Secondly, although I understand the disappointment of the honourable | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
member for Redcar at the failure to progress of her bill, it would be | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
extremely unusual for the eighth bill to make progress. Thirdly, the | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
record shows that when mood, the bill was objected to at the point at | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
which business was interrupted, namely to 30 PM. I have been | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
informed by the honourable gentleman and I do not disputed that he was | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
not present and could not have objected to wood. Let me conclude by | :03:33. | :03:40. | |
saying this in response to the honourable gentleman. He has on a | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
number of occasions explicitly block bills, possibly by shouting objects | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
and certainly I developing his arguments at a leisurely pace on | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
bills which she thinks require his forensic scrutiny, in other words he | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
has by one means or another blocked many bills. He did not block this | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
bill, and as a point of fact, because I believe in the | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
intelligibility of our proceedings and people not running away with the | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
wrong idea, he did not block the honourable member's Bill, and the | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
last point I would make, to the honourable gentleman and to other | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
members, I think it would help if members in all parts of the House | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
would treat each other with courtesy. I don't want to have to | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
arbitrate in matters like this but where I have been asked fact you | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
will questions I have given fact answers. Having heard the point of | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
order and responded, I think it only fair to hear the honourable member | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
for Redcar. I would like to thank the honourable member for advanced | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
foresight of his comments. There is never any excuse to abuse MPs and | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
his staff should not have had to wade through these messages. | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
Feelings around animal cruelty run high but I would like to clarify | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
that in what I've put out to the media I was clear it was the Tory | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
whips to block the bill, and I would like to say to the honourable | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
gentleman, being my first Private Members' Bill and having had | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
positive comments from colleagues on the other side of the House | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
discussing whether it would go through, I still believe there is a | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
matter of record that the honourable gentleman spoke for over 90 minutes | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
on the first bill and everyone in the House should be aware of the | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
consequences of their actions on bills further down the order vapour. | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
I don't think I should adjudicate on that because the honourable | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
gentleman was in order speaking as he did, but he has made his point | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
and she has made hers and some will agree with her. With reference to | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
what she said about the grips of Jacqueline, I was not here but I was | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
here to see the success of the Istanbul convention bill, then I had | :06:20. | :06:27. | |
to go to make own constituency. Whips do tend to object, it is quite | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
commonplace, they think it is one of their functions from time to time, | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
amongst other miscellaneous functions, sometimes subterranean | :06:40. | :06:41. | |
functions but we should not well on that. I should not make such a | :06:42. | :06:51. | |
disobliging opinion on grips. It always based on trust and | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
understanding, I didn't trust them and they didn't understand me. In a | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
written statement last Thursday, ministers announced restrictions on | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
eligibility payment and then at the weekend a minister made, which it | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
isn't the needs of people mental health problems. Have you had any | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
notice of a request from the minister to explain those changes to | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
entitlement to PIP? If there hasn't been such a request, can you advise | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
how we ensure ministers answer questions on what they are doing and | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
why, given the importance of the matter which I know you understand | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
as well as any member. I am grateful to him for putting me in the | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
picture. I understand there was a written statement last Thursday, | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
maybe that doesn't satisfy the palate of the right honourable | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
gentleman or of other members, that is where matters stand at present. I | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
mustn't leave the witness, he is an assiduous member of this House, if | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
he is dissatisfied and wishes to use a parliamentary vehicle to shine | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
further a light on this matter, he must deploy his wits and sagacity to | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
ensure he has that opportunity. I get the impression he feels there | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
has been insufficient attention to the matter. I am not aware of | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
insulting remarks being made and I am sorry if that is the case, I | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
cannot adjudicate on the matter because I am not familiar with them | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
but I hope he will pursue the matter if he wishes to do so through the | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
use of the table office and such mechanisms are as are provided. | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
Further point of order. Would it not be normal convention given that my | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
honourable friend for Mid Norfolk is not present to elucidate his views | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
and they have been impugned by inadvertently, by the right | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
honourable gentleman for his time, would it not be normal that he would | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
have given advance notice given he has mentioned my honourable friend | :09:19. | :09:27. | |
before he must quote seven? As I have been advised and would have | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
been inclined to say, no one in this case, because there has been no | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
imputation of dishonour against an individual. The requirement to | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
notify applies where a particular personal attack is intended to be | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
directed. Where there is a MoD generalised complaint, no prior | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
notification is required. Through a speedy swivelling around by the | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
clerk of the House to advise me, I am fortified by my conviction based | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
on his 30 years experience, but I thank the member for raising his | :10:09. | :10:16. | |
concern. My constituency is due to be expelled from the UK tomorrow, | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
deported to Sri Lanka from her she and her family fled. In three | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
months' time she could complete her degree in engineering at Bangor | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
University and with the expected to get a first. Her head of School | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
describes her as exceptionally diligent and there is a worldwide | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
shortage of graduates in her subject. She followed regulations | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
meticulously but when she was called to Caernarvon police station last | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
week she was arrested and then transferred to your own sweat. I | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
contacted the Immigration Minister to ask him to exercise discretion in | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
her case, which are support in the public with 30,000 people signing a | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
petition, and support from this House. So far the minister has not | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
replied. She is due to leave tomorrow. What advice can you give | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
me so I as a backbencher can hold the Government to account on the | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
scandalous case? For notice of this point of order, he has spoken with | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
his customary eloquence in support of his skin to joint. This is not a | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
point of order for the chair but his remarks on this serious and pressing | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
matter will have been heard on the Treasury bench and I hope they will | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
have been noted. If the honourable gentleman seeks my advice, it would | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
be that he should seek to contact the Immigration Minister, from | :12:00. | :12:07. | |
memory of the honourable member for Scarborough and Whitby, personally | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
today. If the raw no further points of order, we can now to the motion | :12:14. | :12:22. | |
on the supplementary estimate for the Department for environment, Food | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
and Rural Affairs. To move the motion formally... I beg to move. | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
The question is as on the order paper. To initiate the debate I | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
called the chair of the environment, Food and Rural Affairs select | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
committee to the House. It's a pleasure to open this debate on the | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
estimate stay on the future of flood prevention. Flooding is an issue you | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
rarely consider until it happens. When it's dry in the we talk about | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
direct and when it starts to rain we have to deal with flood. In the | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
round we have to deal with both. It can be tempting to disregard flood | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
defences and resilience measures when the weather is dry but I | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
believe and the select committee believes that this would be a grave | :13:21. | :13:22. | |
error. Defences are a vital part of this | :13:23. | :13:33. | |
countries infrastructure. With our experience of more severe storms as | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
climate change continues, flooding is only likely to get worse. We have | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
seen recently in the high tides back came down the eastern side of the | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
country, fortunately they did not cause massive flooding but can in | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
future. I was flooded back in the 1980s and we lost a lot of sheep | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
with huge tidal floods on the west of the country and when these | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
barriers are overcome, you need the right infrastructure. The committee | :14:04. | :14:13. | |
report in November 2016 published its future floods prevention report. | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
The report found flood prevention in the UK is fragmented. It can be | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
inefficient and sometimes ineffective and has let people down. | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
The winter of 2015 and 2016 broke rainfall records and storms Desmond, | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
Eva and Frank disrupted communities in the north, Cumbria and York in | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
particular. Storm Desmond cost of the UK more than ?5 billion and the | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
impact is not just economic. It is also about the individual businesses | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
and residents and all of those who are affected by flooding and | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
sometimes the amount of time it can be to get people back in their homes | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
or businesses up and running again. Many communities live in fear a | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
disaster is just one downpour away. There is no doubt we seem to be | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
getting now huge periods where we have a long period of dry weather | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
and then a huge amount of rain, two or 300 millimetres in 20 or 30 hours | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
and this is... I do not blame the minister or the government for this | :15:31. | :15:39. | |
amount of rainfall coming so quickly! But what we do need to be | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
aware of and ready to try and mitigate some of the worse of the | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
disasters that happen when we have these high levels of rainfall over a | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
quick time. I personally do understand the concerns of many | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
parts of the country when they are underwater for many months and you | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
can only see what happens in the past and I am sure my honourable | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
friend from Taunton will talk about it later, what happened in Somerset | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
where you saw a huge amount of water for three months and more that was | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
devastating for property and the land because it not only stayed | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
there for a long time but created a huge amount of debris, vegetation | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
was lost, the wildlife was lost and so it was a disaster for residents | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
and farmers but also from a conservation point of view. While | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
front line flooding and rescue service work tirelessly to help | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
those affected, our system for managing flood risk can and does | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
fail on occasions. I want to talk about the importance of the | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
recommendations we make in the future flood prevention report. I | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
then want to touch briefly on what the government's response has been | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
and what action Defra has so far taken. I will then conclude by | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
outlining what the committee believes the government must do to | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
prove the situation further. -- improve the situation. Our | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
recommendations, what were they? The Defra committee report made | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
recommendations reducing the risk to 5 million people of flooding, we | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
also looked into the one in 100 years flood and the way we deal with | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
risk because one of the problems is that if you have been flooded now, | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
and you are in a one in 100 years risk of people think another 99 | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
years and there will be safe from floods but that is not the case. It | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
is a case if you are in a high flood risk area, you remain in that area | :18:08. | :18:16. | |
until better defences are created or there is resilience measures put in | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
place but you will always remain in a pretty high risk area. I give way. | :18:21. | :18:30. | |
I thank him and he brings back many memories of these terrible floods | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
but would he agree communication is important in the flooding case, one | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
thing that came from the Select Committee report was we should not | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
use this terminology any more calling things a 100 year flooding | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
incident, we should have a different way of warning people about how | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
serious floods are without these years attached to them because it is | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
misleading. I thank her very much for the intervention and she is | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
right and what the evidence we took and saw from individuals that talk | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
to us was where the communities get together and where they warn each | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
other what is happening, it really does help because the environment | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
agency and others can give the warnings and there are the fire | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
brigade and the environment agency and local authority staff help but | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
in the end it is the communities themselves where they have been | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
flooded, they have built up a resilience and that does help in | :19:31. | :19:38. | |
warning for the future. I give way. Would you join with me in the paid | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
tribute to flood wardens who in many towns like my constituency is | :19:44. | :19:53. | |
waiting for three schemes this year. All the work of volunteers do is so | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
important to the response when floodwaters rise. I thank him very | :19:58. | :20:05. | |
much for his intervention because he is right. Yes, the local authorities | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
and the environment agency, the drainage board but it is the local | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
people when they come together, they know exactly what is happening on | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
the ground, they know they can react quickly and if you have flood | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
wardens then you can deal with it quickly. In Axminster I had an | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
incident where a shopping trolley went into a culvert, the whole place | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
flooded, bungalows and flooded and if we had someone there that could | :20:37. | :20:47. | |
serve taken out the shopping trolley locally, that flood would have been | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
stopped. This is what we are learning all the time. It makes sure | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
the resources go further as well. One of the most important | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
recommendations we must take more of our holistic approach, it sounds | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
obvious but we need to work with nature rather than against it. If we | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
slow the flow of the water by using natural remedies like planting trees | :21:11. | :21:20. | |
we will see more and better flood prevention. We must allow water to | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
naturally flood fields on a natural flood plain instead of urban areas, | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
this would be a much cheaper and more cost-effective way of | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
preventing floods. I will give way. I thank him for giving way. Does he | :21:40. | :21:48. | |
agree that as we look towards how we spend farming subsidies in the wake | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
of Brexit that we ought to look at them to address the issues he | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
mentioned perhaps allowing farmers to allow the fields to flood | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
sometimes as a form of natural flood defence. I think she must have X-ray | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
site because my next paragraph of my notes here very much talks about how | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
we deal with farming and farmers and she is right and we have an | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
opportunity now when we do not have to follow the common agricultural | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
policy to have something that is cost-effective to allow farmers to | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
store water when they are able to store it and it has to be one of | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
these systems where if farmers have to do is store water for a short | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
period and it is on grassland, it will have little effect on their | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
crop and profitability but if they store it on arable land and for a | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
long period, they need greater compensation so in some respects we | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
need to look in detail at how we do this and we will have that | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
opportunity. I give way. I'm grateful. Is he familiar with the | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
practice by some local authorities diverted water from roads onto | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
farmers fields without permission that's washing away topsoil of the | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
sortie is about to touch on in his and introducing into sensitive | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
sites? He makes an important point because if you are going to allow | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
water to go out on land to save a town or village from flooding, then | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
the farmer needs the land owner needs doubt about it, needs to | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
manage it properly, and it does have to be done in agreement so some | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
times these things are done naturally in exceptional | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
circumstances but once done, there needs to be a plan if they need to | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
be done again in future. He raises a good point. In the end, agricultural | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
land can be useful for storing water but you must remember it is also | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
used the growing crops and keeping stock and therefore you have to be | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
sure the farmer can farm that land as well as manage it for water and | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
that's why we need to deal with this by agreement. We had bad severe | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
flooding in the Ribble Valley and drank and share in 2015, he mentions | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
agricultural land on Friday with Woodland Trust and revocable trust I | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
planted trees on the river bank, does he agree with me that we need | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
to look again at the amount of trees being planted and the usefulness of | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
planting trees in stopping soil erosion and indeed holding a lot of | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
the water that otherwise goes to ground? He makes a very good point | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
because it is not just about planting trees, it is where we plant | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
the trees. Every plant them along the field or banks and rivers we can | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
hold back the water and hold back the soil because often it is the | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
soil and debris washed from the field which contributes to the | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
flood. It is not just the number of trees, it is making sure we are | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
smart in where we plant them and the way we plant them because when we | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
visited the North of England, when the Forestry Commission were | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
planting trees, they turned soil up and put it into a furrow and planted | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
a tree on the top of the furrow, the trouble is you then have two gullies | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
either side which allows the water to run down quickly if the trees are | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
planted on a slope so over the years there are many things we can do but | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
he makes a good point, planting trees, holding the soil back and | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
holding the water back for long enough for the major flood to go | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
through, that is what much of the work was done. I thank him for | :25:53. | :26:03. | |
giving way. I cannot let the moment pass not to intervene, soil is such | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
an important part of the ecosystem and would he agree we lose it in | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
flood water at our peril because that is the lifeblood we use to grow | :26:13. | :26:20. | |
the crops. Also she will be aware many fields only have so much | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
topsoil on them and it is the topsoil that is fertile and that you | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
grow your crop in the so if you lose the topsoil into the streams and | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
rivers, you have lost a lot of your fertile soil on your field so I | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
think most farmers when presented with a plan to save their soil and | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
the way they manage their fields can see a big advantage but we need to | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
work together with the farming community rather than sometimes | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
imposing our will upon them. If we can persuade them there are good | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
reasons for managing soil in a different way then perhaps we can | :26:58. | :27:05. | |
get further with it and use carrots and not sticks! I am sure the | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
minister has many carrots to offer today and it will be interesting to | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
see when she sums up. However, we need to take a closer look at | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
developments in built-up areas affected by flood risk. I have said | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
this before, it is not only... Naturally we have laws we hope will | :27:29. | :27:36. | |
restrict most building in flood plains and sometimes it is breached | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
but on the whole it is not. But there is a need in my view, most | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
areas that are flooded very little of that water actually that floods | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
those areas lands on that area that is flooding. It usually comes from | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
above and therefore if you are building in the future, we need to | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
actually look at not stopping the building but is looking if you are | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
building a housing development, several hundred houses or a | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
thousand, then you can look to capture the run-off of water and | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
everything that comes from that estate including the roads and | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
capture that in ponds and underneath reservoirs and tanks underneath the | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
homes and you can build properly Brazilian measures to make sure the | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
situation... -- resilience measures. And make the situation better rather | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
than worse. We can develop but we do not always given of consideration | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
further downstream as what is to happen when we can build. | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
There is a lot of house building going on where part of the condition | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
was to tank to go in prior to the building of the houses that they | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
seem to have started building and occupying the houses before they | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
have that tanks. Does he agree that as part of planning conditions | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
developers need to abide by rules set out local authorities because of | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
the imagery this can cause? He makes a good point again because sometimes | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
with planning conditions, they flout them or they are not enforced | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
properly and then they will say due to the economic situation we cannot | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
put in these measures. We want to make sure these are in place and | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
houses should not be built unless they are in place and that is key. I | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
know the Defra Minister will pass that on because this is a planning | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
matter but if we're going to plan for future development, we need to | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
plan it properly because I don't think any of us are against | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
development but we need the right development, and if we can make a | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
feature of this, we could have leisure facilities as well as the | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
building, so there is a planning game. The recommendation in our | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
report includes a need for a new governor 's model to deal with | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
flooding. As part of our inquiry the committee visited the Netherlands to | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
see how they had managed flooding. 25% of land is below sea level, half | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
of the population live in flood prone areas so they know a lot about | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
flooding. The threat of flooding and to water management being | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
administered hand in hand as early as the 13th century. As the threat | :30:48. | :30:55. | |
in the UK grows, we need to borrow ideas from the Dutch and mirror | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
their local focus on how they deal locally and nationally with floods. | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
We need only look at the fence of this country that were drained by | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
Dutch engineers and the part of Somerset where I still have my farm | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
was also drained by Dutch engineers, so they do know exactly how to deal | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
with water because if they don't, they don't have a contrary. I | :31:22. | :31:31. | |
certainly will. Does he share my disappointment that many of the | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
things talked about in this report were being discussed in this House a | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
dozen years ago and have still not been implemented, for example of the | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
building back better recommendation of paragraphs 60? I disgusted with | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
the Association of British insurers in 2006. During that time the Labour | :31:55. | :32:01. | |
and coalition government cut spending on flood defences. The | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
honourable gentleman makes a good point because one of the points we | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
tried to make is not necessarily a party political one. If you look at | :32:13. | :32:20. | |
the last Labour government, the spending on flooding went down into | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
right times and up in wet times and the same happened with the coalition | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
and we can argue today about the figures but they very much follow | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
the same pattern and I think that is what we are trying to do with this | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
report is put in the proper resilience measures and learn from | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
what's happening, so I'd take his point. We therefore talk about the | :32:44. | :32:55. | |
Dutch system, the ADF would be to set up a regional flood and coastal | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
waters that then moves down to local authorities, to local drainage | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
boards where the exist and landowners and businesses to have a | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
broad catchment races. Government should undertake to overhaul flood | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
risk management, including a new English rivers and coastal | :33:18. | :33:19. | |
authorities accountable for delivering flood protection, because | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
again in the Netherlands they have a flood commissioner who goes to the | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
Dutch parliament, is answerable to Parliament and also at a local | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
level, and it gives a real focus. We may not have to go through to the | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
full management of the system of the Dutch but we could learn many things | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
from it, even if we did that through the Environment Agency and others | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
altering how that runs and how it is more answerable to Parliament and to | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
the local authorities and drainage boards and landowners because I am | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
convinced until we get a system that works from the top and then from the | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
bottom up as well, we won't make the best use of our resources because | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
resources will always be pressed. The Commissioner could also hold | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
those carrying out flood prevention works to recount because you have to | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
get the best value for money. I will give way. He will be aware because | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
his report clearly says that firefighters provide the first line | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
service and a vital service to flooded areas. Does she agree with | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
me and could he give a report on how further the Government is going to | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
getting this to be a statutory duty of the Fire Service, something that | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
has been asked for it through the last 12 years, why can we not do | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
this? Scotland and Northern Ireland have done it and Wales are about to | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
do it. The honourable lady from Vauxhall makes a good point and the | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
gentleman behind her from popular will be making some good points as | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
far as the Fire Service is concerned. We took evidence from the | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
Fire Service and it is not always recognised the work and the amount | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
of time the Fire Service contribute to floods and I think the | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
Environment Agency have large pumps that can move huge volumes of water | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
short distances at the fire brigade have all those puns and can pump out | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
properties and deal with it on the ground, and it is not recognised | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
enough within the system and there is work to be done there and it will | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
be interesting to see the point made and the reply from the minister. | :35:58. | :36:06. | |
Final point on management is that by overhauling the way we manage the | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
whole system we can go a long way to minimise them devastating toll and | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
affect on local areas and local people. I now move on to the | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
Government's response to our report. Unfortunately the response which was | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
published last month was, in my view, a little disappointing. We | :36:31. | :36:37. | |
found the response to be not of two standard as it addressed our key | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
recommendations in only a cursory way. We then asked for more | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
information from ministers in time for this debate and in fairness the | :36:50. | :36:56. | |
minister today wrote to that committee on February 16. We welcome | :36:57. | :37:06. | |
her commitment to record and report from 2018 to 2019 onwards on how | :37:07. | :37:14. | |
many schemes will be included in the natural flood management and that | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
will be very important because I believe we need to make sure that | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
more natural flood management is carried out. The minister, we | :37:26. | :37:33. | |
welcome this step and your commitment to refresh the National | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
Flood and coastal erosion management strategy for England and we hope it | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
will reflect many of the findings of our inquiry. The actions we would | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
like to see in our report, to be fair to the Government Defra has | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
made progress on some of the issues raised including catchment scale and | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
approaches, flood management being embedded more firmly in plans, local | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
partnerships have also made progress in coordinating action in river | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
basins and I think the Government also believes this, we need to make | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
sure that not all flood areas fit neatly into local authority | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
boundaries, you need a whole catchment area that you bring in to | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
hold the water. Some areas you will need to speed up the water to get it | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
out to sea, other areas you will have to slow it down and we will | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
need to put in leaking dams and to hold that water in some areas, some | :38:41. | :38:49. | |
areas will need to be dredged or silted, whatever the language you | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
want to use in order to get the water flowing more quickly. He is | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
making an impassioned speech. Which he recognised the work of the | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
Environment Agency along the Medway River and the work they have done in | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
bringing stakeholders together so we have a continuous theme of progress | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
rather than areas were one area is fixed only to flood an area | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
downstream? I welcome the work of the Environment Agency in Medway, | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
where Walker can move quite quickly so if you're not careful it will | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
move too quickly and flood further downstream, and that will be | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
essential as we do our work and I think the one thing we sort through | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
the whole report is that one size does not fit all because some areas | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
need the water slowed down, other areas need it speeded up and we have | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
to deal with it catchment area by catchment area, and what will be | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
fascinating now is that we are moving into more of a drought | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
situation before too long and will be looking about how we use our | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
rivers to move the water around, because for the first two years I | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
was in this House, the select committee talked about nothing but | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
drought and only when it started raining in 2012 and didn't stop did | :40:18. | :40:26. | |
we think much about flood. Funding for flood risk management, | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
government has committed to a six-year programme with a capital | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
probe -- budget of 2.5 billion. While we welcome this, it is | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
unlikely to deliver sufficient protection in future decades. By the | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
end of this year the Government must publish its 25 year ambition for | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
flood risk reduction and the costs of securing this against climate | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
change scenarios. The Government rejected this recommendation. The | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
public needs to know how communities will be affected and plans need to | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
be put in place to do with flood risk, not just from fresh water that | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
falls in the wake of rain will also coastal flooding. We initially | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
recommended that catchment scale measures be adopted on a wider | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
scale, Defra is doing more to promote these approaches, trying | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
natural flood measurement measures like the restoring of leaky dams and | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
tree planting. We welcome this and the additional funding of 15 million | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
in the Autumn Statement, but we need more detail on how much of the 2.5 | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
billion capital programme for flood management will use natural flood | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
management. Ministers' commitment to include this in their report is | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
therefore welcome but we would welcome more information on how you | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
plan to make sure every catchment area uses natural flood management | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
to maximise the extent appropriate to that river basin because there is | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
no doubt, going back to the Netherlands, we saw very much that | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
they meandered some rivers, they are restoring more water in the rivers | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
as well as farmland, and I therefore look forward to the debate and | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
members' contributions and to the minister summing up at the end. | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
Before I call Mary Cray to respond to the motion, there are a lot of | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
people in the next debate, twice the number as this debate, so I suggest | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
an informal speaking limit of six minutes. We will see how we get on | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
that otherwise there are twice the number of speakers in the next | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
debate, so they get even more squeezed. | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
I rise to introduce the environment committee who have done a report in | :43:11. | :43:19. | |
flooding and we found a lack of long-term strategic planning for | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
flood risk, we found the government had not been doing enough to ensure | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
the resilience of nationally significant infrastructure and | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
crucially a stop, start approach to flood defence funding and a lack of | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
support for local councils. We called on government to take a | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
proactive approach to funding, to make companies operating keep | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
digital energy and transport infrastructure report on their | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
preparedness levels for flooding and the resilience targets and we call | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
for more support for councils to prepare plans to deal with flooding | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
and to publish a 25 year plan for flooding alongside the long-awaited | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
and much delayed 25 year plan for the environment. We are still | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
waiting. Before I move on, I want to say a few words about climate | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
change. Flooding is the greatest risk our country faces from climate | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
change and the risks are all that is significant as honourable members | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
have said and will increase as a result of climate change. If global | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
temperatures are kept below 2 degrees, the UK faces a rising | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
threat from surface water in those intense rainfall patterns, and | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
coastal erosion and tidal surges and an alluvial flooding and cities like | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
Harle, it is important to stress face a threat from all three | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
sources, there are some aerials that are more vulnerable than others. The | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
forecasts for sea level rises very between 50 and 100 centimetres by | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
the end of the century making tidal surges bigger, and we saw how | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
exposed the North Sea coast is and East of England coast, in January | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
the coastal town of Jay Wick in Essex which suffered so previously | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
in the 1950s was evacuated by the army it is good to see there is a | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
faster response time from government in these very fast moving | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
life-and-death situations but we need to be able to scale back up in | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
the event that the North Sea surge happens simultaneously along the | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
whole of the eastern coast. Various predictions say rainfall could be 20 | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
to 30% higher over the next ten years, according to the forecasts | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
and the government flood resilience review. So planning for our | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
children, we need to think about the next ten years. There are risks to | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
all nations and all sectors of the economy and in the latest risk | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
assessment, the committee said current levels of adaptation are | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
projected to be insignificant to avoid, insufficient, sorry, to avoid | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
coastal erosion risks so we are not yet doing what we need to do to | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
match the scale of the risk. I will give way. I hope she shares my | :46:16. | :46:24. | |
disappointment at the slow rate of progress, the adaptation measures in | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
the climate change act are a direct result of a private members bill I | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
introduced about ten years ago on this issue and we have made almost | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
no progress. There has been some progress but we need to move much | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
further and faster as the scale and nature of the risk becomes more | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
apparent and as the science develops in this area and my concern is that | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
government policy is not changing fast enough to meet the change in | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
the scientific forecasts. Does she share my concern that when the | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
floods hit Cumbria and other areas in Christmas 2015, the government | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
was using out of date modelling to predict, they were not using the | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
most up-to-date modelling and that is the most important thing so we | :47:14. | :47:21. | |
can try to predict what will come next? She is absolutely right. Her | :47:22. | :47:29. | |
expertise on the committee has been invaluable. What the committee is | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
saying is increased flood risk will affect property values, business | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
revenues and threatens the viability is of some communities. If we look | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
at a worse scenario, from the risk assessment, if global temperatures | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
rise by 4 degrees, the number of UK households at significant risk of | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
flooding will double from 860,000 to 1.9 million in 2050. These are stark | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
and concerning figures. I know from my constituency the misery flooding | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
can bring, the 2007 floods, we had a thousand homes were flooded in | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
Wakefield and after that, my friend the Northampton, Wolverhampton, said | :48:20. | :48:21. | |
successive governments cut funding and that was a year when funding was | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
cut and labour cut it but they cut the flood defence programme and I | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
lobbied hard to get the money put back in, we got ?15 million for | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
cities, the defences were completed in 2012 and thanks to those | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
differences grow Wakefield escaped the worst of the 2015 storms which | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
is important. But nationally we have had a roller-coaster approach to | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
funding, in the last Parliament flood funding was initially cut by | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
27% and then it was put back after the 2013 floods and we know from the | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
review flood defences which was eventually published by my committee | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
that these government cuts resulted in a decline in the condition of | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
critical flood defences so that review showed the proportion of key | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
flood defence assets that met the required condition fell from 99 | :49:22. | :49:30. | |
cents in 2011 and 12 to 94% in 2013 so in those three years, you had a | :49:31. | :49:37. | |
pretty large decline in mission critical flood defence assets that | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
were all ready built -- 99%. We believe it is an unacceptable risk | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
for communities that think they have defences can sleep easy in their | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
beds when it is raining so the more flood defences the government causes | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
to be built, the more maintenance budget needs to increase in line | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
with that, you cannot keep spending more on capital and cutting the | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
revenue budgets. So, the failure of the barrier in York shows what | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
happens when critical flood assets fail, it was built on the cheap in | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
the 1980s, not build the correct height with only two mechanisms so | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
when one mechanism, the electrics were overtopped and water got in, | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
they were left, the local flood engineers were left with no choice | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
but to raise the barrier with little notice and to flood hundreds of | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
homes in the city and my honourable friend for York will have a great | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
deal to say on that afterwards. The government is talking about spending | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
more on flood defences and one mechanism they are using is the | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
partnership funding but my committee looked into the sources of the | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
partnership funding and said actually 85% is coming from public | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
sector bodies so we are robbing Peter, government cuts centrally and | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
then we go to hard-pressed council budgets who have seen their budgets | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
for and say do you fancy stumping up for some flood defence assets for | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
your town or city and leaving them with no choice but to say yes. 15% | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
is coming from the private sector and it is not an equal playing field | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
because any private sector company that gives government money get tax | :51:23. | :51:32. | |
relief on that so-called donation. The government announces at the | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
Spending Review the amount they will spend and we had that in 2015, the | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
government said two point, 2.5 million and then we have the floods, | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
storm Desmond and Frank and the government says it isn't adequate, | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
we will give you an extra 700 million. Stop, start. Cut when it is | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
dry, spend when it rains. And then the member for Penrith and Defra | :52:01. | :52:08. | |
minister said the extra 700 million would be spent according to a | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
political calculation. I will give way. We have increased spending, we | :52:12. | :52:25. | |
have not cut anything. The coalition budget in 2010, she was a new member | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
of Parliament then, cut the flood defence budget by 27%. And of course | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
the way she is raising the money, the extra ?700 million announced in | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
the budget in March 2016 came from a staff tax so the money comes from an | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
increase in insurance premium tax and that raises ?200 million a year | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
on every insurance policy in the country, car drivers pay for flood | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
defences, people who own pets pay for flood defences and we can argue | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
whether that is the most transparent way of raising money for flood | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
infrastructure. I want to talk about the committees report and the | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
criticisms on infrastructure resilience, we saw before Christmas | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
Storm Angus causing landslips and ballast water ways and on railway | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
lines in Devon and Scotland. As storms always do, bringing travel | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
disruption and last winters floods in Leeds showed key energy, digital | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
and transport infrastructure and the bridge being washed away in | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
Tadcaster only just reopened over a year after the floods. It is not | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
well protected and roads and railways going down has a huge | :53:50. | :53:58. | |
impact on the economics of the area. The governments own national flood | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
resilience review found 500 sites with nationally significant | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
infrastructure vulnerable to flooding. And in Yorkshire in the | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
winter floods of 2015 nine electricity substations and 110 | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
water pumping stations were affected by flooding and keeping the water | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
supply going and sewage under control is absolutely vital bust up | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
my committee recommended that the government mandate energy companies | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
and water companies to meet a one in 200 year flood resilience target for | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
brisk and I'm afraid the government response was disappointing saying we | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
do not think that is the best way of doing it but it does not say what is | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
the best way. I'm interested to hear, we cannot have tumbleweed as a | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
strategy listing to the wind and hoping it is not coming our way. We | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
think the minimum standards for energy company transport | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
infrastructure companies and digital telecommunications companies is | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
vital, let's not forget in Leeds the railway lines were flooded out of | :55:06. | :55:12. | |
Leeds, the police radios went down so West Yorkshire Police were unable | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
to work out where to send their emergency response vehicles in the | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
middle of a civil emergency and this is simply not good enough and if | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
that happens on Boxing Day, on a normal working day we would have had | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
tens of thousands of people stranded in the city centre of Leeds with | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
nowhere to spend the night and a bigger civil emergency response. We | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
had the long-awaited national flood resilience review published in | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
September, it was good to hear some of the things happening, the mobile | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
flood defences but we think flood defences is a sticking plaster | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
solution, but they fail in one third of the time they use so they will | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
only work two times out of three and they did not say anything about the | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
risk from heavy rainfall overwhelming sewers. No one likes to | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
talk about sewage though some people might think there is a lot of it | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
goes on in his place! But not in this current debate. We need this | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
comprehensive long-term strategy to properly deal with the really | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
granular issues around flood risk. None more important than the way | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
local authorities have to deal with flood planning and prevention. 30% | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
of local authorities in September 2016 simply did not have the | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
completed plan flood risk and a quarter of lead authorities did not | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
have a strategy. How are we as the public and members of this placement | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
to scrutinise whether the plans are adequate and the response is | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
adequate if they simply do not exist? We also know the environment | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
agency provides advice to local councils about where new housing | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
developments should be built to minimise flood risk and we heard | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
usually the advice is followed but in 2013 almost 10,000 homes were | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
built in high flood risk areas and the extent to which the environment | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
agency's advice on where or whether to build is systematically | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
monitored, reported followed up to the system is simply not known and | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
there was nothing wrong with building new homes, Southwark and | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
this place is at risk of blood but people are still building new homes | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
in London because there is the Thames Barrier. There was nothing | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
wrong with building in flood risk areas if they are protected. This is | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
not systematically monitored. We want more help going from Defra and | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
DCLG to help councils adopt those local flood plans and then follow | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
the map. In the wake of the winter storms in 2015, the then Prime | :58:07. | :58:15. | |
minister appointed flood envoys to coordinate a response, the member | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
for Penrith and The Border in Cumbria and the Mentha Scarborough | :58:19. | :58:19. | |
and Whitby Yorkshire. There was some question raised about | :58:20. | :58:31. | |
whether these posts transferred with the new government and the new Prime | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
Minister. I wrote to the Secretary of State for Defra injure light, she | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
responded in September at saying she was thinking about it and in January | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
we got a reply saying they were still in post. It should not take | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
six months to reply to a committee chair to let us know whether in the | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
event of a flood these two ministers are still coordinating the response. | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
What would have happened there flooding had taken place? This is | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
not acceptable. On insurance, last winced's devastating cost across the | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
whole economy, Mike committee visited Leeds we had particular | :59:18. | :59:24. | |
access around access to insurance. We had people coming from Calderdale | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
were up to 80% of businesses were affected by the flooding, Osman | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
annual basis by a fluvial flooding and surface flooding. The floods | :59:36. | :59:46. | |
cost SMEs over ?40 million. The floods in Leeds were the worst since | :59:47. | :59:54. | |
1866 and Leeds University told Mike committee that 60% of local | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
businesses had been unable to obtain a quotation for insurance since last | :00:00. | :00:06. | |
winced's floods. We heard one business whose access had risen from | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
?1000 to 20 by -- 250,000 after the floods. Another business's premium | :00:14. | :00:22. | |
had risen, the excess increased 40% to ?10,000 but they would only get | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
that insurance if they stumped up ?400,000 to build new flood | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
defences. When the committee on climate change says the economic | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
viability of some areas is being threatened, the way incher runs | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
companies are failing to rise to this risk and stamped with | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
communities is putting hold parts of our country at risk of becoming | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
economically unviable, so I will give way. Thank you, and I wonder if | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
she has looked at the other report we are discussing and the assertion | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
with another that there is not market failure when it comes to | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
providing affordable insurance flood risk businesses. If these excesses | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
are not flood -- market failure, I wonder what is. She is right, there | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
is market failure, businesses are advised to shop around, there are | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
community schemes which tried to use market power to purchase schemes | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
effectively, and one of those is running in Calder Valley, but it | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
shouldn't have to come to this. We want to see insurance company | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
standing alongside this. They lobbied long and hard to mitigate | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
their risk from climate change and the Government set up a scheme, | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
another insurance tax on contents premiums and buildings premiums, so | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
every homeowner in the country is stumping up for that so insurers | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
don't have to pay bed and transferred that risk to the | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
Government. I think they need to cut businesses some slack and rise to | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
these challenges. I have had a few businesses head, one in particular | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
which is relatively small yet because it has been hectic couple of | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
times by flooding the insurance premium is now way into the | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
thousands, it makes it more complicated because they live on the | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
same premise as where the business is. Surely where the flood really | :02:40. | :02:49. | |
kicks in to protect businesses, it should protect premises and if it is | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
suitable to pool risks for houses, it should be the same for | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
businesses. It is important we don't end up with every taxpayer | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
subsidising the private sector but I think they government needs to look | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
at innovative mechanisms which do not place another burden on the | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
already hard-pressed householder or a car driver who have seen their | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
insurance premiums go up as a result of mitigating this risk, so to | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
conclude, failing to adequately fund flood defences is playing Russian | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
roulette with people's homes and businesses. I talked about my | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
committee's concerns, the roller coasters funding instead of | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
steady-state funding, vague targets, vulnerable transport and energy | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
infrastructure where the Government lacks the will to work with these | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
companies to get them to have flood resilient assets and local councils | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
who are left to get on with it by themselves. The storms may have | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
receded for now at the clean-up in some areas across the country is | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
still going on, and the lessons we draw from these two committees' | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
reports will shape our winters and our summers for decades to come. The | :04:13. | :04:22. | |
financing of flood defences is paramount importance to my | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
constituency as my borough has been hit on a number of occasions, most | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
devastating in 1953, which caused a loss of life with 58 residents and | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
the evacuation of the population. The island is now protected by a | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
concrete wall which runs 28 kilometres to protect the current | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
population. It is still just good for a one in every thousand years | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
event. I noticed the residents were not encouraged to evacuate in the | :04:59. | :05:06. | |
event of a tidal surge. It is judged to be sound until the end of this | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
century provided there is regular monitoring and maintenance, which is | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
where the concern always from residents is to make sure the money | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
is there to make sure we are upgrading maintenance. | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
Notwithstanding how good the sea was art, other parts of my borough | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
remain subject to a risk of surface water flooding, as occurred in 2013 | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
and 2014 when homes across the borough were flooded, including 1000 | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
homes on the island alone, so it is a serious problem for an island that | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
remains one metre below sea level at high tide and is entirely flat. It | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
prevents a problem for affective surface water drainage, said there | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
was an outcry that the second significant flooding event in less | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
than 11 months could not be dismissed as an act of God and | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
whether serious failures were at fault and what could be done to | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
reassure residents, so a grateful to Cabinet Office ministers and the | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Secretary for Defra who agreed to an investigation by the Government's | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
chief scientist to make recommendations locally. His report | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
found that extreme rainfall, problems with drainage, a power cut | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
and pumps tripping and cutting out were foreseeable, many of which | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
could be avoided, and he made a number of recommendations. An | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
extraordinary amount of work has taken place, none has been spent on | :06:49. | :06:57. | |
improvements and mitigation measures, the Environment Agency has | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
invested in sluices and pumping stations, over ?500,000 for Harriers | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
which are key to protecting South Bentley. Webcams have been installed | :07:10. | :07:18. | |
to monitor comes and ditches, floodgates are expected to be | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
completed by the end of the year. Blockages are being removed and | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
faults identified. Anglian Water has invested millions and have been | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
proactive in a public awareness campaigns to raise the importance | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
locally of free-flowing water courses. They have undertaken a huge | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
programme with grants up to ?50,000 for homes affect did previously. The | :07:44. | :07:55. | |
partnership has become exemplary and resulted in a national reward, while | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
the investigation is focused on the island, multi agency corporations | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
had improvements for the entire borough. The partnership concluded a | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
study to look at problems underground and model what they | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
could be in future, whether they could see what they need going | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
forward to make sure this does not happen again, whether stored ditches | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
on roadsides, increased pipe sizes or whatever it may be, and they will | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
shortly come forward with bids for South Essex local enterprise | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
partnerships and local governments. Defra ministers have offered support | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
to was in bits and I hope the woman will continue to support us in | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
recognising the economic importance and stressing to mine and other | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
local enterprise partnerships of deviations games in making sure | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
communities remain economically viable. It is key to the | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
regeneration of my borough that it is protected from nontidal and tidal | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
flood water, especially given likely events in the future. I would also | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
like to say how grateful my borough of our for the scheme making sure | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
residents are not priced out but I note it is not available for | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
businesses and I hope we can do some work there, nor does it apply for | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
new builds and I urge the Government to do more to press planning | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
departments to incorporate more surface water protection, perhaps | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
even reversing the current rate of connection to the Seward system as | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
it doesn't incentivise developers to consider sustainable drainage | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
systems. I would in which the minister to visit Castle Point to | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
see the work that has been done and also to meet local agencies to | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
discuss what more is needed and how we can help the borough going | :09:57. | :10:06. | |
forward. I want to start by referring to my own interest in | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
flooding, which began in 2007 when South Yorkshire was partly flooded, | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
and those events led to the Pitt review which recommended better, | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
more corded and planning, improved resilience and a more strategic set | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
of planning decisions as far as water is concerned, and I'm talking | :10:29. | :10:37. | |
there are about local authority planning, but the challenges | :10:38. | :10:39. | |
relating to flooding remained. Pete River flows could be more than twice | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
current levels in some English regions died 2017 -- 2070 and many | :10:45. | :10:55. | |
people in England are at risk of flooding. It is plausible that | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
rainfall between 20 and 30% higher than normal could be experienced | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
over the next ten years. It was always likely that the select | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
committee of which I am a member would return to this important topic | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
and I think that decision was accelerated by the 2015 floods which | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
impacted on computer, Yorkshire and Somerset. We need to look at this | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
again, the need became imperative in the context of the Government's | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
phone flood resilience review. I want to focus my remarks on one | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
aspect of the recommendations, the strategic approach to the management | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
which we need to take with a special focus on the need for catchment | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
scale planning. The visit to Holland, of which I was a member of | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
the delegation, was critical in terms of framing the | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
recommendations. We focused in our report on that fact-finding visit | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
and every member was impressed by the rigorous manner with which the | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
Dutch organise this its risk management approaches. The Dutch | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
system is clear, accountable locally, regionally and nationally, | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
and I am disappointed that the Government has dismissed so quickly | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
recommendations, especially given the evidence we received to the | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
effect that too much of what we do in England is still badly | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
disjointed. What is particularly impressive with the Dutch model is | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
its placement of water at the heart of the approach, not just water | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
supply but spatial and economic planning, in other words hot water, | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
its management and use as a major environmental resource is seen as a | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
number one priority and so it should be in the UK. They start with the | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
aim or catchment scale approach to planning for flood risk management | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
which would involve an integration of the widest possible range of hard | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
and soft engineering measures, including natural flood management. | :13:24. | :13:33. | |
Support given to the committee underlines this point. The agency | :13:34. | :13:46. | |
did not bring that into consideration as a means of | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
preventing floodwaters building up at source. Natural England also told | :13:50. | :14:00. | |
the committee that prevention and serious measures must be accompanied | :14:01. | :14:09. | |
by action. All the emphasis that the government is not taking enough | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
seriously the need for investment. The flood review programme looked at | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
its pilot, which refer principally, and I quote, flood resilience in | :14:24. | :14:36. | |
urban area will bring redevelopment and regeneration for the area. No | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
mention of the need for a catchment scale response. The development of | :14:44. | :14:53. | |
this alternative scheme, for one in some respects, does not meet the | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
recommendations. No evidence that people get the cooperation required. | :15:03. | :15:12. | |
Mentions of tree-planting and water catchment source where negligible. | :15:13. | :15:22. | |
This is not a catchment scale scheme. If we do not stop prevent | :15:23. | :15:30. | |
the flow in Barnsley, what is the point of placing this in Sheffield? | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
All you will do is push the water for the loan scheme to Doncaster. -- | :15:36. | :15:45. | |
further demonstrates stream. I do not blame Sheffield. It has been | :15:46. | :15:56. | |
encouraged to do so. They are more interested in leveraging private | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
finance than delivering traditional approaches to flood risk management. | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
It seems more interested and evading up pots of money than looking at the | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
increasing evidence, which we saw at the committee, to support the | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
recommendations and the needs for a large catchment scale scheme which | :16:22. | :16:31. | |
would go with all the emerging aspects of evidence. I would like to | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
go into the other aspects of the Defra report, with regard to | :16:38. | :16:45. | |
resilience. Time will prevent me. I look forward to the minister's | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
response and I hope she will address the need for them a proper catchment | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
scale response to this issue, to have a more integrated approach to | :16:55. | :17:04. | |
flood management in this country. I was on the Defra enquiry and was | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
part of the flooding committee report. I am pleased that we are | :17:14. | :17:28. | |
addressing this. I must start that they have committed an incredible | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
?2.5 billion to flood prevention. Some excellent schemes are in place. | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
It does represent a real terms in increasing capital from 1.7 billion | :17:42. | :17:49. | |
pounds in the last Parliament. But they do want to raise some of the | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
issues which have been addressed in these enquiries we are discussing. I | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
will start with Somerset. In the Somerset levels, we are used to | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
winter flooding. Not to the degree which was witnessed in the severe | :18:06. | :18:14. | |
weather conditions in 2012, 2015 in 2014. We saw the whole area tongued | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
effectively into an inland sea. I witnessed this at first hand some | :18:21. | :18:31. | |
incredible 11,500 hectares of land under millions of cubic water. But | :18:32. | :18:41. | |
the drainage tunnels had not been dealt with effectively since the | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
1960s when they were installed. The knock-on effect was significant. The | :18:45. | :18:58. | |
economic impact cost the local economy ?147 million. 50% of | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
businesses were affected. I welcome the fact the government did react | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
and we are optimistically looking ahead to never such serious | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
consequences of being suffered again in Somerset. He has been ?20 million | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
project by the government to improve flood defences. Every ?1 spent on | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
flood defences is of benefit of between ?4- ?9. It is money well | :19:29. | :19:38. | |
spent. The Somerset rivers authority is working with many organisations. | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
It is going forward to run and manage the easier. It is finding a | :19:46. | :19:55. | |
precept on council tax bills and I welcome the government continuing to | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
work with them on its long-term funding arrangements and I do urge | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
that the claim is know to get it onto a statutory basis. I believe it | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
is a model which could also be copied elsewhere. It is not just | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
dredging. It is so much other important work. It involves a range | :20:18. | :20:28. | |
of organisations who I must praise. The lakes of farmers, who are | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
encouraged to do so much forward planning. It is essential we allow | :20:33. | :20:42. | |
it to continue to operate. Some areas that have been mentioned with | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
regard to the club catchment areas. We were fairly dilated to have a | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
good friend from Tiverton to speak to this gathering at the environment | :20:56. | :21:05. | |
Forum. We discussed this new frock approach to flooding. There is an | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
awful lot of positive seedy about how we could engage this approach on | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
a much wider basis, using it tree-planting and soil management. | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
There are a whole raft of traditional and modern techniques, | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
working with science, in order to slow down the flow of water. It will | :21:31. | :21:39. | |
not work everywhere, but it is an approach which could be part and | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
parcel of everything else. With Brexit heading our way, we have a | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
marked opportunity to have a whole new way of thinking about line | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
management. I was heartened to read the response of the Defra board on | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
flood prevention that the government is very much thinking of a catchment | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
approach for the environment plan. I think it is very good at something | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
we should work with. How much positive good is done from flood | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
prevention. I would urge the Minister to do some early work to | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
calculate how we can surely value this approach. If farmers know if | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
the store water on the learned short-term or long-term, what would | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
it cost, to achieve and what they should be paid. Farmers, and I will | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
list the clearly a slight interest, I come from a farming background, | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
they are cautious people. They do not want to use land unless there is | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
a very good reason for it. I would urge the Minister to look at | :22:57. | :23:04. | |
bringing in a large steel catchment project. This came up as a | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
recommendation from Defra, so we can gather evidence as to what could | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
happen on the weight scale with catchment alias. There are many | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
small-scale projects working. We have heard many examples of today. | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
But we do not have a large-scale operation. I would urge the Minister | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
to see if she can have a look at running one of those projects. I | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
would throw when that would it be possible to engage water companies | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
more in this approach to how we handle flooding? After all, the | :23:43. | :23:51. | |
dealing with water the NGO. -- the end, the boat. | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
He did recommend a large catchment approach. It is definitely an idea | :23:57. | :24:06. | |
which is coming into the public domain. I just want to touch on | :24:07. | :24:17. | |
hosting. We need a huge increase in house-building, but let's make sure | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
these are not exacerbating the flooding problem. Sustainable | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
drainage can make such a contribution to both the environment | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
and to put preventing flooding. I would urge that other departments | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
work that into the plans, as well. It has no boundaries and we need to | :24:38. | :24:47. | |
look at all aspects of it. Finally, I may be biased towards Somerset, | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
but there is a lot of knowledge galloped with regard to flooding and | :24:52. | :25:02. | |
a lot of data is being improved every day with regard to river | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
possibly expanding this up across possibly expanding this up across | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
the country. Brexit gives us this opportunity to look at how we run | :25:13. | :25:19. | |
our land and we could have a whole new effective approach to flooding | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
which would benefit us all. The cadence is six minutes, not name | :25:28. | :25:39. | |
minutes. -- name. It is a pleasure to follow the member from Somerset. | :25:40. | :25:47. | |
The flooding from 2015 is still being felt in Rochdale and | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
surrounding areas. For many in my constituency, the recovery is still | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
ongoing. Many businesses at the operation severely disrupted. Many | :26:00. | :26:07. | |
farmers lost stock. The cost of insurance will force some of these | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
businesses to close or relocate. I am grateful for the assistance given | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
so far, in particular the flood resilience community Pathfinder | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
which has helped in distressful claims. I hope the involvement with | :26:24. | :26:31. | |
the community will continue. I commend efforts by Rochdale Council | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
to address the problem caused by heavy rainfall last November. | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
Fortunately, fewer people were affected than in previous years, but | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
nevertheless, Rochdale Council were quick to provide emergency funding | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
to residents under the programme. By late welcome efforts to alleviate | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
the suffering of those affected and efforts to quickly restore | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
emergencies, it is seen real flood prevention must be delivered. In | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
Rochdale, we all know this remain fit is the river and its | :27:16. | :27:23. | |
tributaries. They are committed to reducing flood risk. We want to see | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
a successful flood alleviation programme implemented as soon as | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
possible. We are working with the Environment Agency to put that in | :27:35. | :27:43. | |
place. They have also committed ?7 million and that will protect at | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
least 800 homes and 400 businesses. In addition, the council have | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
completed the flood storage the scheme. They need more support from | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
central government. Funding from central government would allow more | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
storage sites, which we badly need. I appreciate the governments drive | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
to invest in flood defences across the country and I am grateful for | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
the projects launched so far in Rochdale. | :28:18. | :28:25. | |
An eye on this are grateful for her response. However I am dismayed that | :28:26. | :28:33. | |
we need to find further funding. Rochdale have been working | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
extensively with the Environment Agency to maximise funding and I'm | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
sure such efforts will continue. However, I believe such an urgent | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
scheme as we have there should be eligible for more central Government | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
funding. We also need momentum. An early decision on committing funding | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
for this scheme is essential. Such programmes are complicated and have | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
a long lead in time. For it to progress further we need a decision | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
from the Government on future investment. Finally, I hope that | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
Defra and Treasury will bear this in mind and ensure that Rochdale is | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
given the priority it deserves. Last year during the Chancellor's Autumn | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
Statement, many in Rochdale had anticipated extra funding to tackle | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
flooding in the town but were left disappointed. I hope the Minister | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
will act now to ensure the fears of residents and local businesses are | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
no longer prolonged. Thank you. Thank you. May I start by thanking | :29:31. | :29:38. | |
the Government for listing this debate so conveniently, because it | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
follows on from the monumental event of my second Flood Forum on Friday | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
evening. I hope it will help the rest of the house with the | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
conclusions with drawn from that event. The reason I hold forums in | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
my constituency is it provides a chance to bring experts together | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
with local residents so they can raise issues with those experts and | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
together we can find solutions. We know that flooding is a real risk in | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
my constituency, both on the magnificent Lincolnshire coast line | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
and also further inland in the beautiful Walt 's. Sadly that threat | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
was demonstrated all too keenly on Friday the 13th of January this | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
year, when a state of civil emergency was declared on the | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
Lincolnshire coast line because weather forecasts suggested that a | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
tidal surge could overtop the already pretty substantial sea | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
defences putting many tens of thousands of people's lives at risk. | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
As soon as that state of emergency was declared, more than 30 | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
organisations, locally and nationally, pulled together to try | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
to ensure that residents were kept as safe as possible. I'm extremely | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
grateful to the minister who sits on the front bench today and to the | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
Minister for the Armed Forces, who put together a plan to bring more | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
than 200 soldiers from Catterick to land from the surrounding area, so | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
they could not an more than 1000 doors during a 72 hour period to | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
ensure the most vulnerable people were offered the option of | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
evacuation if they wanted to do that. I had better mention the Burma | :31:19. | :31:26. | |
and Qu bec 2nd Battalion of the Yorkshire Regiment. The fire | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
officers, police officers, and Linz teams, as well as volunteers all | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
played a vital role. The emergency rescue centres that were set up in a | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
matter of hours I had the pleasure of visiting the rescue centre at the | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
Meridian Centre in Louth and sort the comfort that vulnerable | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
residents west receiving. Finally, at the Gold command centre in | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
Lincoln, led very capably by the Chief Superintendent. I had the | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
privilege of visiting it on Friday night to see all the teams working | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
together as they reached the decision, locally and nationally, | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
that happily the weather had turned and the risk had been averted. I | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
would like to place on record my thanks to everyone involved in that | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
huge effort. And to say I am rather proud of the fact that Lincolnshire | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
showed the rest of the country how we can respond calmly and | :32:26. | :32:27. | |
professionally to those threats when they arise. And it is as I said, | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
better to be safe than sorry in those circumstances. But of course | :32:36. | :32:37. | |
today we are talking about future flood prevention, and I am grateful | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
to the Government that in the last five years, to 2015, more than ?50 | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
million has been provided in grants and aid to protect more than 23,000 | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
households from flooding along the coast. I am delighted that this | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
scheme is continuing under the current front Government with a ?39 | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
million programme of Grant and eight capital to extend protection to a | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
further fall team and a half thousand households. The future is | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
an interesting one when it comes to flood prevention on the coast. We | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
discussed in the Flood Forum on Friday night the possibility of | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
building groins into the coastline which in turn can provide marinas | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
and interesting environments for tourists to enjoy even more the | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
wonders of the Lincolnshire coast line. The role of smaller investment | :33:30. | :33:37. | |
schemes and the full product protection scheme are important, ?1 | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
million is being spent on replacing the pumping station and 300 --. All | :33:42. | :33:53. | |
these measures play these roles in making sure my constituency remains | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
resilient. Inland flooding, not many people know that Lincolnshire has | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
hills! Indeed, Lincolnshire has some beautiful hills. With that beauty, | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
sadly, comes some rainfall and the market towns and villages in the | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
waltz have to deal with flooding from time to time. That is why a new | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
flood alleviation schemes are welcome overwhelmingly wife by local | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
communities. It is particularly important as developers seek to | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
build yet more houses between there and the coast, something I know my | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
honourable friend for Taunton Deane is concentrating on, may I therefore | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
joined the voices of colleagues who have urged the Minister to encourage | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
insurance businesses to look not just as households when | :34:49. | :34:56. | |
protecting... In terms of insurance policy protections, but also to | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
extend the protection to businesses? It is critical to small businesses | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
in my constituency, including pubs and restaurants, that rely on the | :35:05. | :35:12. | |
beautiful architecture of the market towns, we need the insurance to | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
protect businesses as much is homes. And I'm extremely grateful for | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
having had the opportunity as I say to share the delights of my | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
constituency and the thoughts of constituents from the second Flood | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
Forum, and I look forward to holding many more. I will hold a rolling | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
programme of them over the years so that constituents can come to me | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
with problems and Afrikaans sort them out then I will write to the | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
Minister hoping she can do so. I end by wishing all my constituency and | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
everyone living in flood risk areas, wishing we also they safe and dry | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
for the rest of the year. I'm grateful the opportunity to | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
contribute to this debate. I am pleased to follow the honourable | :35:59. | :36:07. | |
lady. I will focus on recommendation 15, a statutory duty for the Fire | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
and Rescue Service that the select committee have proposed. This | :36:14. | :36:15. | |
recommendation is consistent with our other recommendations 16 to 21 | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
which will raise concern about governments can demanding control | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
structures and relationships. The committee heard, evidence leading us | :36:24. | :36:32. | |
to the recommendation. Sadly the Government disagrees. Recommendation | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
15, says we recommend the Government places a statutory duty on the Fire | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
Service and garden whirls to provide emergency response and commits the | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
additional funding and resources to support the delivery of this | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
responsibility. Come back to that. The Government's response says Fire | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
And Rescue Services in England have already discretionary powers they | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
need and goes on to say a statutory duty would potentially reduce | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
flexibility with a one size fits all approach and Iraqi advantages to a | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
permissive regime. That is doublespeak and euphemism if I have | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
ever heard it! I am grateful to Pat Strickland and the library from | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
their beef ring. Should the Fire Services have a statutory duty to | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
deal with flooding, it outlines the Pitt review in 2008 into the 2007 | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
floods said there should be fully funded national capability for flood | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
rescue underpinned as necessary by a statutory duty. In 2017, the | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
policing and Fire Minister said the good response of the Fire Services | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
to flooding in that year suggested there was no need for redo. And the | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
Government arrived at the same decision. But we have seen more and | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
more serious flood events since then so the situation is changing. The | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
briefing paper details the law as it stands. It says the axe does not | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
place a statutory duty to respond to floods although there is a power | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
that the act sets out for statutory core functions of the Fire and | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
rescue authorities to provide fire safety, fire fighting, the rescuing | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
of protecting people from harm and road traffic incidents. The law in | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
Scotland is different. There has been a statutory duty since 2013. | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
The Pitt review took a similar view to that that now exist in Scotland. | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
It says the review believes that clarifying communicating the role of | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
each would improve in response to flooding. The concerns that the | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
system structures and protocols developed to support national of | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
multi-flood rescue assets remains ad hoc. We believe the Fire and Rescue | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
Service should take on a leading role in this area, based on a fully | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
funded capability. This would be the most effective as supported by a | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
statutory duty. That is the core recommendations. Nothing much has | :39:06. | :39:12. | |
changed. The library briefing goes on to examine the history of the | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
proposal and the debates of the house. I would like to focus on the | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
history of the Fire and Rescue Service statutory duties. I suspect | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
colleagues might suspect that the Fire Service has always had a duty | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
to attend fires. It was part of the fire that destroyed most of the | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
powers of Westminster that led to the creation of the London Fire | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
Brigade. Most colleagues would also probably expect the Fire and Rescue | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
Service has a duty to prevent fires. I suspect most would consider the | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
role of the Fire Service in dealing with road traffic collisions would | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
be a statutory duty. That is not the case. On fire, the statutory duty | :39:52. | :40:00. | |
was only created in 1938. The Fire safety it was 1947 full stop and for | :40:01. | :40:09. | |
road crashes, it was 2004. So, when the Government says the Fire and | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
Rescue Service will deal with floods because it has and it does and it | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
will. That was also the case for fires, fire prevention and road | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
traffic collisions until the prevailing wisdom decided that an | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
expectation was not enough and the Government had to do more than just | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
expect. They not only has to be a legal requirement to a duty, it has | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
to be Resorts and paid for, the Government needs to legislate for | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
that outcome. The report makes a case for changes in structures. Part | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
of the recommendation is for better preparedness, better governments and | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
stronger resilience, to confer a duty on the Fire Service to boost | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
always elements. The Government clear leaders not wish to proceed in | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
this direction at present. Does my Oracle friends share my suspicion | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
that the Government's refusal to create a statutory duty in this | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
regard is driven by the Dutchman's not to commit resources to this area | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
of endeavour? He perfectly anticipates the next point I am | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
going to make. The statistic I wanted to quote is that | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
demonstrating the Government does not want proceed in this direction, | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
is because Fire And Rescue Services staff reductions since 2010 are | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
significant. Nearly 7000 jobs up and lost which is about 20% of the Fire | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
Service, has disappeared since 2010 and those numbers are worrying. The | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
transfer of responsibilities of the Fire And Rescue Services to more and | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
police and combine commissioners means for many of us there is a real | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
fear that more reductions can be expected. The Fire And Rescue | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
Services to be able to maintain the staff and equipment to be able to | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
continue to play the prominent role in not only dealing with floods but | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
helping prepare for them and mitigate against them. To do that | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
they need recognition in law, the singlets committee believes it needs | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
to be done, it is an issue that will not go away, I suspect that some | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
point, maybe not now, but at some point the Government will get the | :42:19. | :42:26. | |
message. From the floods of storm either, we know that 453 residential | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
properties and many commercial operatives were flooded in York but | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
with extreme flooding we know it could rise to as how as 7200 | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
properties. Therefore the city is saying what is happening next? We | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
have just had our own flood enquiry report. Just last month with around | :42:47. | :42:55. | |
90 recommendations. No framework yet with how it will Government process. | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
But we have to look back on what has happened after every flood, it seems | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
the resources dry up and then we don't seem to move further forward. | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
And as we have heard from my honourable friend, the services | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
which should be in there between the flooding, not just addressing the | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
issues flooding itself but also dealing with the issues of flood | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
literacy, prevention and lit resilience, which the Fire authority | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
would be well placed to address, those issues seem not to be | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
addressed. That has been my real disappointment in the Government's | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
responds to the excellent reports by both the effort select | :43:36. | :43:43. | |
One of the things which has come to light is that we need to look at | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
resilience. The team looks at a emergency response but does not look | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
at resilience measures in dry seasons. We need to look at how this | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
could be used more proactively to make sure resilience measures are | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
incentivised to make sure they are built into properties when the sun | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
is shining, rather than waiting for the next flight to occur. I would | :44:13. | :44:20. | |
like to ask the Minister when she plans to review the flood prevention | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
scheme? Many people do not have access to insurance since the floods | :44:26. | :44:36. | |
in 2009. We also continue to see there is still such the need for a | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
scheme for businesses. We think there could be a matrix model in | :44:41. | :44:48. | |
scheme in place for businesses. What progress has the Minister made in | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
examining opportunities for this? Businesses still have not heard of | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
it. What is she doing to promote the scheme in the interim of putting a | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
proper scheme in place? In your work, emergency measures have been | :45:04. | :45:11. | |
put in place with regard to the flood barrier. ?17 million of | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
investment. This should have taken place over the past 30 years. We | :45:17. | :45:24. | |
were able to shift 50 tonnes of whatever sick and should the belly | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
of the need to put into operation. But we are seeing more needs to be | :45:30. | :45:36. | |
done. I am not talking about building defences. I am talking | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
about flood protection and management. What the Environment | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
Agency has said is that we are waiting till 2021 until the next | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
spending review. The Minister boasts about ?15 million being spent. That | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
is a drop in the ocean when it comes to building resilience measures. We | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
need proper investment no instant stead of mapping out the catchment | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
areas and working out what needs to be done in the future. We have seen | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
the lack of ambition from the government with regard to the tree | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
planting programme. We need to look at how forestry can play a major | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
part in flood management. Europe is looking at our catchment and the | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
work being done by the University of York. I have urged the Minister to | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
commit today to fully fund the seven phases of this research. This better | :46:37. | :46:38. | |
land management will take water and have it moving | :46:39. | :46:52. | |
upstream rather than downstream. Does the Minister went to address | :46:53. | :47:02. | |
the fact that it will appear in need 25 year environment plan. It is | :47:03. | :47:09. | |
already late. Or will it take 25 years to be written? We are waiting | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
to see what it has got to say. There is a real need in the budget next | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
week to make sure proper investment is made no, not waiting until 2021 | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
for proper catchment management. The other issue I want to touch on is | :47:29. | :47:37. | |
the issue of governments. In your work, we were left without a plan | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
for managing the floods. Your work was badly let down by the lack of | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
action the City Council was able to make. There is also poor governments | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
with regard to the Environment Agency mismanaging the process. What | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
governance structures as the Minister putting in place to make | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
sure local authority plans have professional oversight and risk | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
assessed to make sure the fit for purpose? Cannot expect local | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
authorities to sit over this when the waves could be at risk. | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
Resilience planning is so important to do that in the dry season and not | :48:19. | :48:26. | |
to it when it rains and it floods. I want the Minister to see what | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
further steps she would take note to make sure we have a resilient nation | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
when it comes to flooding? This debate follows major enquiries of | :48:37. | :48:43. | |
the social, environmental and economic impact of flooding. It was | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
made with the help of two separate committees. I sat in one of them. I | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
took a close interest in developing the committee 's conclusions in | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
preparation for the final report. The committee report called for the | :49:04. | :49:11. | |
government to strengthen policies to protect communities in England from | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
increasing flood risk. Last November, when the environment | :49:16. | :49:23. | |
committee published its report, we criticise the government 's lack of | :49:24. | :49:30. | |
approach to flood management. This was the product of a great deal of | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
work spent visiting areas of England badly affected by flooding. We also | :49:36. | :49:44. | |
reported from the Netherlands, where we observed a number of government | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
organisations getting involved in flood prevention in order to | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
understand how flood prevention was managed in that country. That | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
evidence collected was in stark contrast to that collected in | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
England. Many places in England were badly affected by three successive | :50:06. | :50:17. | |
storms. We had risk management systems which could only be tingly | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
regarded as reactive. There was nothing I observed in England and | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
was left with the impression that Community Shield that this | :50:29. | :50:30. | |
appointment and the level of concern. The overall view is that | :50:31. | :50:40. | |
flooding is received with an inadequate emergency response. In | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
the Netherlands, the situation could not be more different. The idea with | :50:46. | :50:57. | |
much quicker. The expats highlighted many innovative methods with regard | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
to management control to the flood and flow of water to the prevention | :51:05. | :51:12. | |
of flooding. The people of the Netherlands regard flooding as I | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
feel we are of these agencies. The Netherlands use flood prevention is | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
a social issue. The cake a strategic approach to guarantee correct water | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
management and the protection of life and property. We consider | :51:29. | :51:39. | |
flooding and unpredictable and inevitable coincidence of changing | :51:40. | :51:46. | |
weather conditions. The Defra select committee looked not at bowing more | :51:47. | :51:56. | |
pompous, but a bigger model of recognising flooding as a social | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
problem. They want more coordinated action and a better approach to | :52:04. | :52:10. | |
flood prevention. We think the government has two point floods | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
Minister to be responsible for longer term flood protection | :52:15. | :52:23. | |
schemes. The video of others through regional and coastal boards and an | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
integrated national plan, in partnership with the government. | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
They would take on lead local authority rules and would assume the | :52:36. | :52:47. | |
current Environment Agency role to delivery efficient and natural flood | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
prevention plan. This business model would streamline responsibilities, | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
coordinate resources and pool expertise, to allow each body to go | :52:58. | :53:05. | |
with funding from Lee linked to outcomes, including the financial | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
ones. This was intended to deliver an auction of catchment areas on a | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
much wider scale, including the installation of drainage systems, | :53:18. | :53:25. | |
flood risk communication and to organisational and regional boards, | :53:26. | :53:33. | |
covering insurance, prevention and emergency response. This was | :53:34. | :53:44. | |
directed at flood management, rather than an individual approach. The | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
committee 's recommendations were to make use of natural resources and | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
recognise the negative impact of flooding on funding. The UK | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
Government pattern of spending is as unpredictable as the flooding | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
itself. The fluctuation in spending -- spending has seen some budgets | :54:05. | :54:20. | |
topped up beyond expected levels. The environmental audit committee | :54:21. | :54:30. | |
say that the death committee initial report was a very disappointing | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
response from the United Kingdom government. It was summed up in one | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
sentence. I quote, we do not believe there is a need for substantial | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
change to local government provisions for flood risk | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
management. When challenged on that inadequacy, the said later from | :54:49. | :54:58. | |
undersecretary from the Ministry which noted that although we do not | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
agree there is a need for substantial structural change, we | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
are always looking for a wheeze to improve to meet current and future | :55:07. | :55:14. | |
demand. The United, government wants improvement, but just not the | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
improvement recommended by two select committees. By ignoring the | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
detailed reports from these two committees, the government is | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
missing an opportunity to bring in wide-ranging changes which would | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
help the government to meet current and future demands. The failure to | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
do that is not only a waste of money, the other losing households, | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
communities and businesses across the country facing possible | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
disaster. The measures fall far short of what is required. This | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
debate takes place as part of the supply process. This is a way in | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
which the government may take authority for government spending | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
plans. In practice, the debates are CDs of general debate whether one | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
thing is not discussed is the original estimates. There is | :56:11. | :56:17. | |
generally also not any vote. This house has abandoned all | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
opportunities to take control of public expenditure by means of | :56:21. | :56:27. | |
debate presented to the house. This is particularly important to | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
Scottish members of Parliament. The estimates process meant that the | :56:32. | :56:47. | |
English votes for English laws excluded them from. It feels to | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
factor in an effective mission method of scrutinising the | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
government. That is to the detriment of everyone. 241 from the workshop | :56:56. | :57:05. | |
by honourable colleague, I have not seen this produced, but this is the | :57:06. | :57:12. | |
estimates Bill. The estimates for Defra that we are meant to be | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
debating today are included with them. I rather confused by the | :57:18. | :57:25. | |
proceedings today. I have not heard any discussion surrounding the | :57:26. | :57:33. | |
figures. I have heard no critical analysis of the departmental | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
spending. It was made very clear this is a stage we're Scottish MPs | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
are supposed to analyse this to deal with the consequences of policy on | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
UK legislation. There appears to be little or no discussion. I want to | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
discuss a few points from the estimates. I am afraid, it is not in | :57:55. | :58:06. | |
order. If you could discuss the topic on the order vapour which was | :58:07. | :58:13. | |
chosen by the liaison committee. We had this issue last time. If the | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
honourable gentleman could move on to what is on the order paper. I was | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
not hear the last time these estimates were discussed. I am not | :58:27. | :58:37. | |
allowed to do that? What we are discussing is flood prevention | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
specifically. That was chosen by the liaison committee. We did have this | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
subject last year. I am sure we can find other avenues to discuss than | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
later. But no, it is simply flood prevention. | :58:54. | :59:31. | |
Is it the ruling of the chair that in fact the contents of HC 946 as | :59:32. | :59:40. | |
real rating to Defra are not for debate in this debate? If the | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
honourable gentleman has a read of the order paper, if he looks at the | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
notes, it says this estimate is to be considered insofar as it relates | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
to flood prevention, resolution of 21st of February. The question is | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
necessary to dispose of proceedings will be deferred until 7pm. That is | :00:01. | :00:09. | |
what the critical element you. Thank you. I'm from a constituency like | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
many members that his susceptible to flooding and has flooded quite | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
dramatically over the last few years. I have been interested many | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
of the points made by the members. It has been a very informed debate | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
and there have been many excellent points made. The chair of the audit | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
committee who is no longer in her place, talked about a stop start | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
nature of the process to flood management cross the rest of the UK. | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
And a lack of strategic planning which has been at apparent in this | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
debate. She talked about businesses being affected by flooding and I | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
have some specific issues which I know I have questioned the Minister | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
on before and she has given me helpful answers which I will touch | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
on later. The honourable member from Castle Point, I was pleased to hear | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
that she joined my cause and expressed some concern about the | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
availability of affordable insurance to small businesses, something I | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
will mention later. Share the honourable member from Taunton | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
Deane, talked what about land management and contribution that | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
land management techniques can make to reduce the risk of flooding, and | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
I think is worth pointing out at this juncture was major debates in | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
my constituency has been surrounding the extent to which these land | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
management techniques can actually mitigate the risk of flooding. When | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
towns in my constituency have flooded with find it difficult to | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
find an expert that can say that felling trees or tidying the river | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
banks or dredging a particular river would have made a significant | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
difference. It appears the one thing that contributes most to the risk of | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
flooding, that is not really in a public's mind, is the huge amount of | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
rainfall. There is some way to go in terms of the debate in public | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
consciousness about the things that contribute to the risk of flooding | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
and the things that can mitigate the risk. I was interested to hear the | :02:07. | :02:15. | |
comments from my honourable friend, talking about bringing people | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
together, and I think she is right, and I think all MPs in such | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
constituencies will be impressed by how members of the public come | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
together. She brought the record for plugging her constituency and plug | :02:34. | :02:42. | |
congratulating the front bench. There was an excellent summary of | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
the committee report and focusing on the commit experiences learned in | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
Holland, where the principle is proactivity and strategic | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
management, whereas the strategy in the UK seems to be very | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
unpredictable and seems to be about managing consequences of emergency | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
situation, I think that tax needs to change. Within the relevant | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
documents listed on the order paper to which this debate is restricted | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
today, there is a section at page 23 on business insurance. The situation | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
in many other towns in my constituency is that there are 30 to | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
40 small businesses on either side of the high street and the high | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
street has flooded. These businesses have tried to get affordable | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
insurance, they can get a policy with manageable premiums but the | :03:32. | :03:40. | |
access is completely unmanageable, from ?15,000 upwards. If the main | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
street was to flood again none of those businesses could deal with | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
that access. I'm concerned to see the assessment at page 23 to 24 | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
which says in the opinion of Defra they do not consider there has been | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
a market failure in respect of business insurance for those in | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
flood risk areas. It talks only about cost of policies and | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
availability of policies, not excesses. I wonder if the Minister | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
could inform the house as to whether manageable accesses is one of the | :04:12. | :04:13. | |
criteria the department considered when it made the judgment that there | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
had not been a market failure. I was surprised of course read the figures | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
from the Federation of small business and other organisations | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
that they thought there was a small percentage of businesses that have | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
these problems. That does not meet with my understanding of what has | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
happened in my constituency. This is a very difficult issue and one that | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
has the potential to put swathes of our high street out of business. I | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
accept the arguments that perhaps the participants in the scheme | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
should not be made to paper businesses. But there is clear | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
market failure of it is to be dealt with. In conclusion, the approach in | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
Scotland is not perfect but it seems to be more advanced than in the rest | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
of the UK. We have a statutory basis for a flood management plan. We | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
passed the act in 2009 which compelled all 32 was 40s across | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
Scotland to come up with plans. They have done so. 80% of the money has | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
been committed by the Scottish Government. I am looking forward to | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
the conclusion of that process in 2022 when all of these flood | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
defences shall be built and we look at the next round of strategic | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
planning in Scotland. Thank you. It has been a really interesting | :05:32. | :05:40. | |
debate. Admirably opened by the chair of the Defra select committee, | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
who opened with some interesting information from the report. It was | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
followed by the chair of the environmental audit committee who | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
talked about the huge impact that that climate change is having on our | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
communities. The member for Penistone and Stockbridge spoke | :06:00. | :06:01. | |
knowledgeably about the importance of catchment planning of the Dutch | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
model, and the honourable member used his knowledge of working with | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
the Fire And Rescue Services to show why statutory duty is needed. The | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
member for York Central shared her considerable experience on this | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
issue is stressed the importance of funding research being carried out | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
as universities like York. Making communities truly flood resilient is | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
great of one of our greatest challenges. Flooding varies greatly. | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
The flooding in Somerset was not the same as on the use closed, and was | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
very different to Cumbria. This house is aware of the devastating | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
affect the storm Desmond had on my community last winter as well as the | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
previous flooding. Flooding is not just about water. In Cumbria it | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
roars down the fells, carrying everything in its path. Drains | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
overflow and a huge amount of rocks and gravel and trees race along in | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
the water. Floods are incredibly destructive. We had roads and | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
bridges completely destroyed. What do we do? We need, as has been | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
discussed, to look at the whole river catchment, we need to invest | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
in sustainable drainage systems, and I believe we need to stop talking | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
about flood prevention. We can't prevent flooding, but we can manage | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
it and we can make our communities properly resilient. People are | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
nervous, frightened, it is time we took seriously the effect on mental | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
health. Every time it rains heavily, in Cumbria that is not rare, people | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
are scared it will happen again. The University of Cumbria is carrying | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
out a survey into mental well-being, an important piece of work in | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
understanding better the effect of flooding and repeated flooding on | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
our communities. We'll so need to look at how we improve emergency | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
planning across the country. Flooded communities pull together in | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
extraordinary way the crisis, but they feel there is insufficient | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
progress, due partly to a lack of leadership, both locally and | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
nationally, we have local Flood action groups with a wealth of | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
knowledge and experience but who feel kept out of the loop when it | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
comes to decision-making and information sharing. This is deeply | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
frustrating for smaller communities who feel they are not important | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
because of their small populations. Why should small areas be left out | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
because there is only a few homes? There have been calls in this report | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
for a national flood authority, perhaps this is what is needed. But | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
if so, local communities must have a clear route into it. Can the | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
Minister assure me that local Flood action groups and communities | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
including local farmers will be properly consulted and listened to | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
when developing the truly holistic approach to flood management that we | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
need? The Environment Agency told me after the floods in Cumbria that the | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
flood defences that were installed after 2009 did what they were | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
designed to do, and they did. But this was not sufficient for the | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
scale of the floods in 2015, as was the case in the areas such as York. | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
They made a big difference to some areas and to some families, but this | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
was little comfort to the many people made homeless at Christmas | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
time. The Government has promised more funding for defences, but the | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
cast for Comrie alone is it estimated that ?500 million and | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
solutions we need a much more than building higher and higher walls. | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
The water has to go somewhere. If we are not careful, we will build flood | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
defences which protect one area but damages another. We have to look at | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
flooding planning. There has simply been too much building over the | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
years on flood plains. The Government says this is known of a | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
problem, as the law was changed in 2009 to prevent the building on | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
flood plains, but I've edited two separate areas where houses that had | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
never flooded before were flooded after new housing developments have | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
been those close by. We have to consider the potential impact of all | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
proposed developers on other properties. Perhaps we need a | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
solution looking at revising flood impact planning regulations. And | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
gravel also causes huge damage to infrastructure, to farmland and two | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
river banks. Parishes and landowners used to keep the water courses | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
Clearasil and daybreak, but since this management has stopped, local | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
farmers and residents tell me this has not only raise the height of the | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
rivers but also the bridges have huge deposits of gravel around them. | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
Bridges can be extreme pitch points and can end up as dams and become | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
clogged with all this debut which then backs the water up again. Then | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
you get huge deposits of gravel on farmland is next to the river. One | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
farmer I know, after the 2009 floods, he had ?35,000 Bill for | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
clearing up and have the same Bill in 2015. How will diminish in short | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
upper river Leishman takes place, and as she prepared to look at an | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
incentive scheme to pay farmers to allow storage of floodwater on-farm | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
land to reduce risk? Household insurance has been discussed a lot. | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
Often it is offered as we have heard with huge accesses or not at all. | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
Flood rias welcomed but it is in its infancy and has does not work | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
everyone. I welcomed the new schemes to cover businesses. This is | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
something I have been pressing for, but it is in its infancy and these | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
schemes need to be monitored very closely. Business flood claims tend | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
to be philosophy trade which can be significant. The consequences for | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
small businesses who might not be able to get insurance again can be | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
catastrophic. We have to get to grips with this or bankruptcies will | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
increase and businesses will close. After 2015 flooding David Cameron | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
said money was no object. The Government must honour this and | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
provide the resources needed to tackle flooding and provide the | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
resilience communities are so desperate for. Since the floods we | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
have been promised additional capital expenditure, but | :12:37. | :12:38. | |
unfortunately little in the way of spades in the ground. We do not have | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
time to waste on this. Flooding is not going away. We need a | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
comprehensive plan in place for every community at risk of flooding, | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
covering the whole of the flood Bain and drainage basin. There is no one | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
size fits all solution. Decision-makers must talk to the | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
people on the ground. There is so much experience in local | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
communities, especially farmers who have knowledge dating back | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
generations. It would be criminal not to use this at our disposal. If | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
the Government does not act immediately, we face the severe risk | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
of communities like those in my constituency becoming ghost towns. | :13:20. | :13:34. | |
Finally, will the Minister assurers that the funds will be made | :13:35. | :13:45. | |
available? I would like to congratulate my honourable friend | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
for opening this baby. Also, for the many members who contributed, often | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
from personal experience of people in the constituencies. It was also a | :13:58. | :14:08. | |
pleasure to be in her constituency recently visiting the toy shop on | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
the high street of one of her principal towns. Flood management is | :14:15. | :14:25. | |
a priority for the government. It presents significant risk. We are | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
putting in place robust, long-term strategies to protect the nation. In | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
terms of the impact flooding can have on the community. I am fairly | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
and of that. In severe cases, it can lead to loss of life, but even in | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
less dramatic circumstances, it can lead to loss of property, business | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
and have a major effect on homes and schools. We are looking at the major | :14:58. | :15:08. | |
impact of coastal erosion and I am grateful to the cheer of the local | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
special interest group. It is a level of experience which is working | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
together with the Environment Agency and others, the likes of local | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
councils, to make good local decisions. I will give way. Will she | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
pressed the Environment Agency clear that there's a lot of new house | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
building in our area, which we believe the contribute to flooding, | :15:38. | :15:48. | |
with the be a drive for retrofitting is to be attached to new houses. I | :15:49. | :16:01. | |
am trying to find out and establish to discuss flooding challenges and | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
the area. I have another intervention. Could the Minister: | :16:06. | :16:15. | |
from that point Lookout major builders who can eat into the system | :16:16. | :16:25. | |
knowing there will be one-way valves in this causes the system to flood. | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
The taxpayers have to pay that bill. The developers ought to be paying | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
that. We should not be putting new houses at risk. The honourable lady | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
speaks very passionately about this because it affects people near her | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
constituency. I would stress that the Environment Agency does work | :16:50. | :16:51. | |
with local councils and that is clear guidance in the national | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
planning policy network when you building comes in, they follow the | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
advice of the Environment Agency is accepted 98% of the claim that it is | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
the clear duty to consider the risk on existing housing stock as well as | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
the new housing. I am aware of the situation she referred to and I have | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
revealed this back with regard to how we make it clear that | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
permissions granted in the first place. I am pleased to hear about | :17:25. | :17:33. | |
representations. Could she do the same about making it my dad today | :17:34. | :17:44. | |
mandatory for the new systems to be earmarked? The development of ten | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
houses are more, the councils are expected to do that. I hope she will | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
see progress in our own area locally. She referred to the | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
situation in Sheffield. When I met a member of the businesses and people | :18:01. | :18:09. | |
talking about the future in Sheffield, that was not what I hear | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
it. It was one of the outcomes that we wanted to see Sheffield being | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
pioneered with the combination of public and private investment. I | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
need to make progress. I will not give way at this moment. Returning | :18:24. | :18:35. | |
to funding, part of this is that the government continues to improve the | :18:36. | :18:43. | |
prevention and identification of flood risk. Coastal erosion is | :18:44. | :18:51. | |
resulting in a substantial increase in the spending. One of the key | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
changes is that the hand to mouth existence, having this long-term | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
approach to spending will allow the Environment Agency to do the | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
appropriate planning and get on with their work, rather than guessing | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
along something will take. We have also increased maintenance spending. | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
It will be over ?1 billion. The honourable leader of four Wakefield, | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
it used to be the case that it was all or nothing funding. There was no | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
latitude for a number of schemes to be considered. I think it matters | :19:32. | :19:41. | |
that there have been beds need to increase the development and to | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
partner that funding. With regard to Rochdale, I would say that I have | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
here carefully what he said today and I will look at the particular | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
issue he raised. With regard to the catchment approach, I welcome the | :19:57. | :20:07. | |
support this approach is received. I am pleased that my honourable friend | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
is welcome the fact that we are introducing a new reporting measure | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
on natural flood management in future years. It has been referred | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
to the fact that we have set aside ?15 million for natural flooding | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
schemes. I have not seen the candidates for this year, but I know | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
the Environment Agency are looking at this. I know about the | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
recommendations from the select committee. Some of these are already | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
being used in certain flood schemes, but I think it is important to | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
haven't criteria on which we can measure. With regard to future and | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
past experience, her committee report, it referred to the fact that | :20:57. | :21:04. | |
the house can see it is better prepared than it has been before to | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
deal with particular issues. The honourable member said they could | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
not change the weather. I am not divine in that regard, but we're | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
working hard to make sure that lessons taken from previous floods | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
came into the national budgetary review. I have been cheering the | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
weekly meetings in the run-up to this which have only just finished. | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
We are making progress with what is happening with the individual | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
funding providers. We are meeting all those with an interest in flood | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
prevention. We are also looking at the Environment Agency agency | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
investing in mobile defences which can be deployed flexibly around the | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
country. This has been referred to, the role of the Army in recent | :22:00. | :22:09. | |
flooding. They were deployed in both Lincolnshire and Norfolk at the | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
request of the local resilience Forum. Mid Sussex and Essex decided | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
they did not need the help of the Armed Forces. This will mean the | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
country will be better protected than protect our communities and | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
make them more resilient against flooding. We intend to look surface | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
flooding, which is a problem in urban areas. We will talk to other | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
stakeholders with regard to managing the risk. In terms of the risk of | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
bringing things together, we all recognise that flooding affects many | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
aspects of our lives. We do consider carefully the recommendations of the | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
report on structures, but we did not agree there was a need for | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
substantial change. That does not mean we could not always find ways | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
to make it work even better. I think the local action plan published by | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
the government in January is a good example of a name to put forward | :23:11. | :23:18. | |
Best practice is effectively and efficiently as possible. I think we | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
are at this stage we eat councils have not started their plan. I have | :23:24. | :23:33. | |
written to them. I have said if action is not undertaken by the end | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
of next month, we will use force to get the plans moving forward. In | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
terms of working together, we should recognise that the current system | :23:43. | :23:50. | |
means we have, since 2005, more than half a million properties are better | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
defender Danny Gavin. One of the things I want to get is the | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
structural change right now. We are getting a wee of delivering flood | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
prevention and resilience measures which are being undertaken in the | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
next few years. I am not convinced that changing the names of who does | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
what is going to actually change the wee different bodies work together. | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
In terms of the Fire Services, which the honourable member referred to, I | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
can confirm the government has no plans for a statutory duty for these | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
services to deal with flooding. We normally already respond to flooding | :24:33. | :24:42. | |
under the Fire Services act. This is under the risk assessment and flood | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
management plans. In the recent postal search incident, I would pay | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
tribute to the fire authorities who don't involve themselves around the | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
country. I saw the firefighters from Hampshire who went up to help those | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
in Suffolk. That shows it is working well. They recognise the government | :25:03. | :25:13. | |
are not intending moving on this, but that she axed accept the | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
statistic that there has been eight 7000 reduction in firefighters in | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
the past seven years alone. Does she not agree this is not a role the | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
Fire Service has two legally carry out. Would she talk to colleagues in | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
the Home Office to make sure that the numbers do not fall any further. | :25:37. | :25:44. | |
We will have nobody to do the job. I know that in my own area there are | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
fewer firefighters than there were some years ago. It is an opportunity | :25:51. | :26:04. | |
to pay tribute to them. But I can assure him there have been | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
conversations with the Home Office with regard to that. With regard to | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
sustainable drainage, we do expect these new developments. In regard to | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
elements about government, I would fly got the role of the regional | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
coastal board. I think a lot is covered by that committee, which | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
comprises a number of different stakeholders. With regard to | :26:31. | :26:38. | |
insurance, which was raised by several members. The scheme has been | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
a good success. But I understand what people are saying about | :26:47. | :26:56. | |
business. I would as members to make businesses are weird of this. Being | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
offered a quotation for specialist insurance, if they are still | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
struggling, they should be made aware of it. It is something I want | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
to look at in detail. But I am not going to be able to make promises | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
today that we will have a scheme for businesses. FloodRe Is time-limited. | :27:20. | :27:28. | |
We are looking to sheer resources around the country and it has, to | :27:29. | :27:43. | |
some extent been extended. I visited the Calder Valley and saw that some | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
businesses are moving. They are 200 yards. In my constituency, there is | :27:50. | :28:07. | |
a development of 12 apartments. The cost is only ?30,000 because of the | :28:08. | :28:16. | |
flooding. The image to be a market opportunity for insurance companies. | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
I would be elated and she would look into this. | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
The point of leasehold companies is they tend to be under freehold or | :28:25. | :28:32. | |
management. But if I level friend wants to give me more details I will | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
do that. Of course I will be delighted to meet the member for | :28:38. | :28:46. | |
Castle Point. And it is good to have the role of emergency services | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
pointed out. In regards to York, the Honourable member for York Central, | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
hopefully I have answered some of her queries about this this is, | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
maybe not to her satisfaction, but I would point out that FloodRe does | :29:00. | :29:08. | |
not apply to businesses after 2009. In regards to the member for | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
Dumfries Galloway, the statutory base of the flood management plan, | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
we have that in this country as well, and in regards to the | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
estimates procedure... I will not give way. In regards to that I'm | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
sure he's aware of the enquiry under way. The member for Cockermouth will | :29:26. | :29:33. | |
be aware the action plan was supported by local communities. I | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
have met the Keswick Flood action group three times since becoming | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
member for this area, and at times I have to admit I have in courage the | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
Environment Agency to say a Little less conversation a little more | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
action. It's important that we get on with these schemes, recognising | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
we will not please everyone. People will be better protected than they | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
were this time last year and this will continue right across the | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
country, and so I commend the estimates in the name of Defra to be | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
supported in the votes tomorrow night. I would just like to sum up | :30:10. | :30:20. | |
in this debate. I welcome those last comments from the Minister that she | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
asked the Environment Agency to talk less and do more, and I think that | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
would be great. In fairness, I pay tribute to the work they have done | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
throughout the floods we've had. But our report states we need to have | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
action from top to bottom, and I would like to thank the member from | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
Wakefield for the contributions for the audit committee, for the members | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
of the audit committee of that were here today, the members of Defra | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
that we hear today that have spoken and all other members, because | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
flooding is so important to us. When it rains, people flood, businesses | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
flood. We have to make sure every pound we spend, we spend well | :31:00. | :31:08. | |
centrally and locally. Local people can do a lot more in alleviating | :31:09. | :31:16. | |
floods. I look forward to working altogether in this house to deliver | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
better flood protection in future. Thank you. Order, order. Stands over | :31:20. | :31:33. | |
until seven o'clock tomorrow. Understanding order number 54. We | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
now come to the motion on the supplementary estimate for that of | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
health. I beg to move. The question is, as on the order paper. I call | :31:48. | :31:56. | |
the children of the health select committee. Thank | :31:57. | :31:57. |