13/03/2017 House of Commons


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13/03/2017

Live coverage of Monday's proceedings in the House of Commons, including a Ten Minute Rule Bill and consideration of Lords amendments to the EU (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill.


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ayes to the right, 331, the noes to the left, 232. The ayes to the

:00:00.:00:32.

right, 331, the noes to the left, 102, so the ayes have it, the ayes

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have it. The clerk will now read the waters for the day. I should inform

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the house that neither a Lords amendment engages financial

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privilege. Queens consent is required in respect of the Lords

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amendment number two, queens consent. We will take the government

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motion to disagree with Lords amendment number one with which we

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will consider a Lords amendment number two and a government motion

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to disagree. To move the motion to disagree with the Lords amendment

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number one I called the Secretary of State for Exiting the European

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Union, David Davis. I beg to move that this House disagrees with the

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Lords amendments one and two. We introduced the most straightforward

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possible bill necessary to enact the referendum results and respect the

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Supreme Court's judgment. This bill has a simple purpose, to allow the

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Prime Minister to notify under article 50 and start the two-year

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negotiation process. The House of Commons has already accepted this,

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voting overwhelmingly to pass this bill on end of last month. The house

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accepted that the majority of people now want the Prime Minister to get

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on with the job at hand and do so without any strings attached.

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Despite the simple purpose of this bill it has generated many hours of

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debate across both houses and quite properly so, I should say. Over the

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last five weeks we have seen Parliament at its best. Honourable

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and right honourable members and peers have spoken with passion,

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sincerity and conviction. However I was disappointed that the House of

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Lords voted to amend this bill. This bill is just the next step in the

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long democratic process surrounding our exit from the European Union. It

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will continue with future legislation, there will be a range

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of specific bills on immigration and customs arrangements, for example.

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Parliament will be closely involved with all of these important

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discussions and decisions. As we embark. IIMACRO1 second. As we

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embark on the forthcoming negotiations are guiding approach is

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simple. We will not do anything which will undermine the national

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interest, and we will not enter the negotiations with our hands tied.

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This is not to say I don't appreciate the concerns that lie

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behind these amendments. It is the means we disagree on and I will try

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to address these individually. The Secretary of State will have heard

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many members wanting to have a meaningful vote on the government's

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terms of negotiation which he defined yesterday as either accept

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the governments terms or WTO terms. When does he expect this vote to

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come to this place and to all the other parliaments, when roughly

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within the two-year period, does he expect the house to get the vote

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open on his terms? I will come to the detail of the answer to that

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later. In broad terms, the form of words which I crafted before it was

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we intend and inspected to be before the European Parliaments votes on

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the same matters. It will fit within the ratification process at the

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beginning but as soon as we get the negotiation complete. It is too soon

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to know when that will be. Amendment one that seeks to require the

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government to act unilaterally to bring forward plans within three

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months to secure the status of European Union and EEA citizens and

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family members living in the United Kingdom. On this matter the

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government has been clear, we want to secure the status of EU citizens

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already living in Britain and the status of British nationals living

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in other member states as early as we can. There will be a time limits

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and many people want to speak so I will limit the number of

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interventions I take. As somebody who you is married to an EU citizen

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without a British passport can I say I wholeheartedly support Discover

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and's approach to it and it is rightly get reciprocity before the

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go-ahead with any agreement with the rest of the EU. I thank the

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honourable gentleman both for his intervention and warming the house

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up. European citizens already resident in the United Kingdom neck

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a vital contribution to our economy and society. Including working in

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crucial public services like the national health service. Without

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them we would be poorer and public services... However, the European

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Union has been clear that we can't open these discussions until the

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Prime Minister has given formal notification that the UK which is to

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withdraw from the European Union. We must pass this bill without

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delays or the Prime Minister can get to work on the negotiations and we

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can secure a quick deal that secures the status of EU citizens in the UK

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and UK national living in the EU of which there are 1 million. I take

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very seriously our modern responsibility to all 4 million

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United Kingdom and European citizens. This will be one of the

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top priorities. I welcome the encouraging words from across the

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Channel, Poland and Sweden, which fill me with confidence that we will

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reach a swift agreement. As the Polish Prime Minister said, these

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guarantees will need to be reciprocal. It is important the

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guarantees of British citizens are hard. I did undertake to give way to

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the honourable gentleman and I will come back. Is he aware of the survey

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showing two thirds of EU doctors are thinking of leaving and EU citizens

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tend to be younger, wouldn't he accept there is a need to act in

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good faith to set -- to set the agenda. As I said before, these

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issues are serious and important and people hold their views passionately

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and with good reason but the simple truth is the government has been

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very plain in what it intends. It intends to guarantee the rights of

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British and European citizens and it will do that as quickly as possible.

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I'm delighted to hear what he had to say about prioritising the

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negotiations as far as EU citizens are concerned. He said the

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negotiations could stretch out for up to two years. There's no reason

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why an agreement should not come a lot earlier as far as this is

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concerned. Will he give a guarantee that once an agreement is made it

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will be made public in order to put out of misery the trauma these

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people may be facing. He makes a good point. When it changes and is

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putting law. , I would aim to get all the member states to commit an

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exchange so everybody knows what the rights will be. Deal with the issue

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the honourable gentleman raised, quite properly, that people are

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afraid of things they should not be afraid of. This is very dependent on

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the commitment of other member states as well as ourselves. The

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Polish Prime Minister has made the point publicly that every single

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minister of every member state I've spoken to has reinforced the point

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that they want this to be top of the agenda, dealt with first. That is

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what we intend to do. Forgive me, I have to make some progress. This

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amendment may force the UK to set out unilateral plans. Such an

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approach would only serve to undermine and what I've been talking

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about. I want to reassure people Parliament will have a clear

:10:17.:10:19.

opportunity to debate and vote on this issue before anything else

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happens. We will not change the situation. Nothing will change for

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any EU citizen in the UK without Parliament's explicit approval

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beforehand. Given the government track record on contingency planning

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is as bad as the handling of the Brexit process, I wonder if I can

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ask the Secretary of State that if it is the case that they will not

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protect the position of EU nationals, has the Secretary of

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State given consideration as to deportation process?

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The honourable lady knows me very well. I think it is incredible that

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anybody would imagine I would sign up to deportation. The answer is

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simple and I make the point again. I take, as a moral responsibility, the

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future guarantees of the future of all four of the European citizens.

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If I may move onto the next issue, let me be clear from the outset,

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this amendment does not seek to put what we've promised on the face of

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the bill as was suggested by some. It seeks to go further. Let me begin

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with subclauses, which do seek to put our commitment on the face of

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the bill. I will repeat our commitment. We will bring forward a

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motion on the final agreement to be approved by both houses of

:12:28.:12:30.

Parliament before it is concluded. We expect and intend that this will

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happen before the European Parliament debates and votes on the

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final issue. This commitment could not be clearer and so the subclauses

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are wholly unnecessary. This is our clear intention, and intentions

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stated more than once, and by far the most likely outcome that will

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bring a deal back to the house of parliament for them to improve --

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approve. I am grateful to the Secretary of State. If he is so

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confident about this why can't he allow the rest of us to be confident

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by agreeing to the second amendment from the House of Lords? It is

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unnecessary. When a minister gives an undertaking at this dispatch box

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in this house that is binding on the government. Understand that? I do

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not. We should not. Just on the more general point of thoughts, we should

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not underestimate, I say this with some personal interest, we should

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not underestimate the mechanisms at Parliament's disposal to ensure that

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its voice is heard. To paraphrase Lord Howard's words, this place will

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have its say. We do not need to put this into legislation. He is a

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member of long standing in this files and he recognises that

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Parliament will find a way to have a say in whether a deal is reached or

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whether no deal is reached. If he recognised that would he agree with

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me that it would be better if the government officially recognised

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that position? I recognise the point. That is often -- that is a

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matter for Parliament. It is not for a minister to do do that. Let me get

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to the point behind this. I agree with her on that but what we cannot

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have is what I'm coming to about the second aspect of this motion or this

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amendment, any suggestion that the votes in either house will overturn

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the result of the referendum. That's the key point. I give way. It would

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completely cripple the government trying to get a good deal for the

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UK. This is the time for Parliament to get behind the country that made

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the decision, and get the best deal. You cannot do that if they can

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undermine us. That brings me to the sub-clause. Let me deal with that.

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This effectively seeks to prohibit the Prime Minister from walking away

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from negotiations even if the Prime Minister thinks they are offering

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her a very bad deal. The impact of this is unclear but even the -- the

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intent goes far beyond what we could accept. The government will be

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undertaking the negotiations and must have the freedom to walk away

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from a deal which will punish the UK as some have suggested. We are

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thinking a mutually beneficial relationship can and will work for

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everyone but tying the government's hands in this way could be the worst

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way to achieve that. Let's not forget in December this house passed

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a moment that nothing should be done to undermine the negotiating

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position of the government. I thank the Minister. He is asking us to

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take him at his word. Given the record of the party opposite

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recently on manifesto commitments, does the same principle of trust

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apply? I said before and I will say it again, I take statements at this

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dispatch box as binding. The idea that Parliament could force

:17:06.:17:12.

government to accept a bad deal will only incentivise those on the other

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side of the negotiating table to deliver that deal. As the select

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committee said, the government will conduct the negotiations on behalf

:17:26.:17:29.

of the United Kingdom and will need room to manoeuvre if it is to secure

:17:30.:17:35.

a good outcome. I'm grateful to my right honourable friend forgiving

:17:36.:17:42.

way. Nobody in this house wishes to fetter the government's hand in

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negotiations or their right to walk away from negotiations. The issue in

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sub-clause for is about the question of whether the government comes back

:17:54.:17:58.

to this house to explain its plan on policy in the event of that

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happening. I would expect that to be inevitable and yet when we've sought

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assurances from the government that they would do that which seems to me

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to be blinding obvious we are told they will not give that assurance. I

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find that a bit awed and I wonder if you could clarify. My right

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honourable friend is making a good point. The simple truth, as I've

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said before is that nothing can constrain this house's right to

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debate and vote on anything it sees fit. What I'm dealing with here is

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sub-clause for. During the debate, the author of the house admitted he

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did not know what would happen if Parliament voted against leaving the

:19:03.:19:06.

EU without a deal. This is a strong argument against this but a

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significant number of Lords supported this amendment, and they

:19:12.:19:24.

made their intentions clear. If Parliament were to vote against

:19:25.:19:31.

leaving without a deal the UK should seek to remain in the EU and reverse

:19:32.:19:35.

the result of the referendum. The European Union member states and

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institutions Read the proceedings of this house very closely and they

:19:42.:19:46.

will have read that and it will have raised their interest because that

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is what they would like to see happen. The reality is some would

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seek to use this to overturn the result of the referendum. The

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government. Good idea, comes from across the floor. That is exactly

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what concerns us. The government and the Prime Minister have been crystal

:20:08.:20:11.

clear. The people of the UK have decided to leave the European Union.

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The government will seek to implement this decision in a way

:20:15.:20:20.

that is most beneficial to both the United Kingdom and the European

:20:21.:20:25.

Union. What we will not do is accept anything that will put the intention

:20:26.:20:31.

to leave the UK in doubt. Will my honourable friends forgive me

:20:32.:20:35.

because I'm coming to the end of my comments? Any prospect we might

:20:36.:20:40.

actually decide to remain in the European Union will only serve to

:20:41.:20:43.

encourage those on the other side to give us the worst possible deal.

:20:44.:20:59.

I reiterate the three points, first to respect the Supreme Court, seven

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days a moment or unnecessary as the government has a ready-made firm

:21:11.:21:14.

commitments in regards to both of the two issues, third these

:21:15.:21:18.

amendments will undermine the government position in the

:21:19.:21:22.

negotiations to get the best deal for Britain. It is clear to the

:21:23.:21:28.

government that we should send back to the House of Lords a clean bill.

:21:29.:21:35.

I ask us all to repeat that support once more. The question is that this

:21:36.:21:40.

House disagrees with the Lords in there amendment number one. I rise

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to support both of the amendments passed on the other players. They

:21:52.:22:06.

committee stage in this House. They committee stage in this House. They

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will be supported by Labour MPs here today. The question is of Honourable

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members opposite will listen to the arguments in favour of the

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amendments which I know many are sympathetic to have concerns about.

:22:19.:22:21.

Or will they go along with the Prime Minister's increasing obsession to

:22:22.:22:26.

pass a clean bill on amended, even if that means ignoring amendments

:22:27.:22:30.

that would improve the bill and provide much better protection. I

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will make some progress because I know lots of members want to speak.

:22:38.:22:45.

The government is about to embark on the most complex and challenging

:22:46.:22:49.

undertaking of any British Government since the Second World

:22:50.:22:53.

War. The deal is the government strikes will have profound

:22:54.:22:55.

consequences upon almost every aspect of British life it is

:22:56.:22:59.

therefore essential that government does not feel or take the country

:23:00.:23:04.

down the wrong path. Starting negotiations by guaranteeing the

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rights of EU nationals and ending negotiations with a meaningful vote

:23:09.:23:15.

will help guard against that fate. On the amendment on EU nationals, my

:23:16.:23:21.

question is, what is the problem? This is not about delay. The way to

:23:22.:23:25.

prevent delay is to accept the Emma Pengelly on the pit. Secondly, what

:23:26.:23:32.

is the amendment? It is to bring forth proposals within three months

:23:33.:23:37.

of exercising the power to trigger article 50. The Secretary of State

:23:38.:23:41.

says we want an early deal. If it is within three months, no problem with

:23:42.:23:47.

the amendment. The amendment only affects the government's approach of

:23:48.:23:51.

doesn't get an early deal. To convey or betrayed this as a delaying

:23:52.:23:58.

tactic is not to read the amendment or what it says. Within three months

:23:59.:24:07.

to bring forward proposals. I have listened carefully to the argument

:24:08.:24:12.

he is making. 4 million people are affected by this. I would put to him

:24:13.:24:16.

that all 4 million should be dealt with fairly and on a level playing

:24:17.:24:21.

field and you'd only get that from reciprocity and this amendment is

:24:22.:24:28.

not bad. Of course there is a shared concern about UK citizens living in

:24:29.:24:34.

the EU, but this is a matter of principle. Are we prepared to use

:24:35.:24:48.

one set of people, those that are here, as a bargaining chip to get

:24:49.:24:53.

the right settlement for people in the EU? That is exactly what it is.

:24:54.:24:59.

The whole argument about reciprocal rights is about bargaining, saying

:25:00.:25:04.

we will not do what we should do until we get something in return for

:25:05.:25:14.

it. That is a bargaining chip. The Minister seeks to persuade us that

:25:15.:25:20.

it be because he has stated from the dispatch box that this will all be

:25:21.:25:23.

fine and dandy but that is the end of the matter because as he said

:25:24.:25:28.

several times quite inaccurately and ministerial statement from the

:25:29.:25:31.

dispatch box as legally binding. Surely the truth is that it is no

:25:32.:25:37.

more a legally binding them to say that it is legally binding from the

:25:38.:25:49.

dispatch box. The Secretary of State said it was binding as far as he was

:25:50.:25:52.

concerned. That is not the same as a legal commitment. Secretary of State

:25:53.:25:58.

can change and governments can change. That is why we need a

:25:59.:26:12.

commitments. Let me fast forward to the second Amendment on that point

:26:13.:26:15.

because if there is really no problem with clauses one, two and

:26:16.:26:20.

amendment to Clause four and put amendment to Clause four and put

:26:21.:26:24.

them on the face of the bill? This is becoming an obsession with a

:26:25.:26:30.

clean bill. Are built us not be amended even when it is right and

:26:31.:26:36.

proper to do so. I will make progress because it is not fair...

:26:37.:26:47.

How does he have said the Brexit Secretary's point this afternoon,

:26:48.:26:51.

that was if and when we pass this bill and it is given Royal assent,

:26:52.:26:56.

the first priority of the government will be to negotiate both the rights

:26:57.:27:02.

of people here who are from Europe and also our citizens abroad? Does

:27:03.:27:08.

he not accept that if we pass this tonight and give those rights the

:27:09.:27:12.

European citizens here there is no incentive whatsoever for the other

:27:13.:27:17.

European countries to conceded two hours? I think it is important to

:27:18.:27:30.

focus on the words in the amendment which is to bring forward proposals

:27:31.:27:33.

within three months, that doesn't tie the hands of anybody. If this is

:27:34.:27:41.

resolved within three months, and I hope it is for the sake of EU

:27:42.:27:48.

citizens living here, then this represents no problem. It only

:27:49.:27:51.

presents a problem if the government doesn't succeed in an early

:27:52.:27:54.

settlement. The Labour Party has been pushing the government to

:27:55.:28:00.

A Labour motion was tabled back in A Labour motion was tabled back in

:28:01.:28:08.

but the government has refused to but the government has refused to

:28:09.:28:14.

take unilateral action. The international trade Secretary said

:28:15.:28:17.

last year that are guaranteed these rights the EU citizens would be to

:28:18.:28:21.

hand over one of our main cards in the negotiations. We do not believe

:28:22.:28:31.

EU National Football Centre bargaining chips and I think many

:28:32.:28:36.

honourable members agree. There are 3.2 EU National Football Centre who

:28:37.:28:40.

have made their home in the United Kingdom, thousands doing vital jobs

:28:41.:28:45.

in the NHS, our universities, our public sector. They are our friends,

:28:46.:28:53.

colleagues and neighbours. They are also our society. This is a matter

:28:54.:28:58.

of principle and decency and we should not bring unnecessary

:28:59.:29:05.

uncertainty and distress. That is exactly what is happening as a

:29:06.:29:09.

result of the government's approach. Let me read to the house an extract

:29:10.:29:12.

from the Brexit Select Committee's report what they said they had heard

:29:13.:29:18.

a wide range of concerns of EU nationals since the referendum

:29:19.:29:21.

including stress and anxiety and feelings of depression, to practical

:29:22.:29:26.

concerns about pension, health care, children being abused in school

:29:27.:29:30.

playgrounds and worries about ability to work in the UK in the

:29:31.:29:34.

future. What have we come to if we can't deal with that level of

:29:35.:29:40.

anxiety and stress? Many members in this House would have seen this in

:29:41.:29:46.

their own constituencies surgeries, I know I have. It is time for the

:29:47.:29:57.

government to act. Increasingly, it is only the Prime Minister and

:29:58.:30:02.

government to think otherwise. Trade unions have made a powerful and

:30:03.:30:06.

compelling case for this to be dealt with now, as of course has the

:30:07.:30:09.

Brexit Select Committee in its conclusions. Labour support this

:30:10.:30:16.

amendment not only because it is the right thing to do in principle but

:30:17.:30:20.

also because it would help of the negotiations by setting the right

:30:21.:30:24.

to. We have to make it clear to our European partners that although we

:30:25.:30:28.

are leaving the EU we are not severing our ties. We want to have a

:30:29.:30:33.

cooperative future with our European partners. We want our nearest allies

:30:34.:30:38.

to be strong and put the European Union to succeed and prosper. We

:30:39.:30:43.

know that in the future citizens will be richer and happier if we

:30:44.:30:46.

work together with EU partners to meet common challenges. The message

:30:47.:30:56.

is vital. Does he agree with me that given the mixed record of our

:30:57.:31:07.

Foreign Secretary both in terms... Both under ?350 million a week

:31:08.:31:12.

savings promise, that it is right that we should choose leadership and

:31:13.:31:18.

commitment by standing up for EU migrants in supporting this

:31:19.:31:24.

amendment? I do agree and I have said a number of occasions that the

:31:25.:31:29.

two and the government sets is very important as we go up to the

:31:30.:31:32.

beginning of the negotiations. From my direct discussions with those

:31:33.:31:37.

representatives in Brussels from other countries I can tell the house

:31:38.:31:40.

that some of the jokes that have been made about the reasons why our

:31:41.:31:44.

EU partners feel so strongly about the EU have not been well received.

:31:45.:31:49.

Passing this amendment tonight would help sell the right tone. I will

:31:50.:31:55.

move on to the question of the meaningful vote on the second

:31:56.:32:02.

Amendment. I remind the house that as recently as December the Prime

:32:03.:32:07.

Minister was refusing to guarantee that Parliament would be able to

:32:08.:32:11.

vote on what every agreement the government reaches with the EU

:32:12.:32:14.

Commission. Under pressure, that position changed earlier this year

:32:15.:32:17.

but it was only when Labour tabled an amendment to the bill during

:32:18.:32:21.

committee that the government made a set of commitments on the floor of

:32:22.:32:29.

the house. They were set out at the member and repeated by the Secretary

:32:30.:32:32.

of State that Parliament would be able to vote on the final draft

:32:33.:32:36.

agreement, second that Parliament would get a vote not just on the

:32:37.:32:40.

so-called divorce settlement, but also on a future agreement with the

:32:41.:32:48.

European Union, and thirdly that the vote in this Parliament would take

:32:49.:32:52.

place before any votes in the European Parliament. The Lords

:32:53.:32:56.

amendments we are considering simply put these commitments on to the face

:32:57.:33:02.

of the bill. That is why it is so wrong in principle for the

:33:03.:33:08.

government to accept them. Is he aware of the poll published in the

:33:09.:33:14.

last two hours which should a clear majority of the British public

:33:15.:33:17.

support and meaningful vote on this, with 52% supporting it, only 27%

:33:18.:33:27.

saying the other way? I had seen that poll. That is important but

:33:28.:33:33.

this is a matter of principle. This is the question of whether this

:33:34.:33:40.

House should be able to vote on the deal reached in two years before the

:33:41.:33:45.

European Parliament votes and to have a meaningful say. That is what

:33:46.:33:50.

it has been in principle from start to finish. This amendment does not

:33:51.:34:00.

simply give the right to this House to vote on these matters, it gives

:34:01.:34:04.

rights to the other place to vote on these matters. What would happen if

:34:05.:34:10.

this House was the two except for the government wanted to do, but the

:34:11.:34:14.

other place dug in and rejected it? What would happen then? There is a

:34:15.:34:24.

reason that that amendment spells that I can that data because that is

:34:25.:34:29.

precisely what was said from their last time this was debated, what was

:34:30.:34:33.

said by the Minister should be the position. This carefully reflects

:34:34.:34:38.

what the government says it is -- is its assurance so the question about

:34:39.:34:44.

the membership be put to the Secretary of State who has agreed...

:34:45.:34:56.

Would he agree with me that given the high level of uncertainty this

:34:57.:35:00.

is the only stage and proper thing to do to give us one more chance

:35:01.:35:03.

before the European Parliament has an opportunity?

:35:04.:35:12.

I would not put it as one last chance. What I would say is this.

:35:13.:35:21.

These negotiations will lead to first, I hope, and Article 50

:35:22.:35:28.

agreement. Second, I hope, transition arrangements, and third,

:35:29.:35:33.

a final agreement between ourselves and the EU. That will define the

:35:34.:35:39.

future of the UK for generations in Europe and beyond Europe. It is

:35:40.:35:44.

imperative that this House has a vote on that before the end of the

:35:45.:35:50.

two years. I will give way. I'm grateful to my honourable friend.

:35:51.:35:55.

The discussion so far has been about the parliamentary vote in the view

:35:56.:36:00.

of the government reaching a deal. Can I ask, is it his interpretation

:36:01.:36:07.

of State's speech today that in the event of no deal, the government is

:36:08.:36:14.

seeking the authority to default to WTO rules which are not rules used

:36:15.:36:22.

by any major economy alone to trade with the EU. When it defaults to

:36:23.:36:26.

those rules without this House having a say? I'm grateful for that

:36:27.:36:33.

intervention. If that is the interpretation it causes me concern.

:36:34.:36:37.

We need to be clear, Mr Speaker no deal is the worst of all possible

:36:38.:36:43.

outcomes for Britain. The president of the CBI has described it as "The

:36:44.:36:50.

worst case scenario" for which many firms cannot even prepared because,

:36:51.:36:55.

"The cost of too high to even consider it". Just yesterday the

:36:56.:36:59.

director of the CBI emphasised that no deal should not be plan B but

:37:00.:37:08.

Plan Z. I could not agree more. Research published today by Open

:37:09.:37:11.

Britain wants that leaving without a deal would cause great harm to trade

:37:12.:37:17.

with the EU than with any due 20 country. And as the cross-party

:37:18.:37:23.

committee warned on Sunday, a complete breakdown in negotiations

:37:24.:37:28.

represent a very destructive outcome leading to mutually assured to

:37:29.:37:33.

damage the EU and the UK. Both side could suffer economic losses and

:37:34.:37:36.

harm to its reputation. This is why having a vote not only on a deal but

:37:37.:37:43.

having a vote on no deal represents a check against the Prime Minister

:37:44.:37:49.

trying to take this country down the most dangerous pass. That is why I

:37:50.:37:56.

will ask those opposite to vote for the amendment, not against it. I

:37:57.:38:02.

will give way. I thank the honourable member forgiving way.

:38:03.:38:07.

Does he at least accept in principle that this Parliament made a contract

:38:08.:38:11.

with the British people at the last referendum, a contract that we would

:38:12.:38:19.

respect their wishes with or without a deal, and that those wishes would

:38:20.:38:25.

be respected in this place. Does he agree with that or not? There was

:38:26.:38:32.

one question on the ballot paper, should we stay in the EU leave.

:38:33.:38:38.

There was no second question. It's impossible to extrapolate but I

:38:39.:38:41.

would be staggered if most people thought this house should not have a

:38:42.:38:47.

proper grip over the available options in two years' time and

:38:48.:38:51.

hopefully beyond two years. I would expect that they said of course we

:38:52.:38:55.

want Parliament to be fully involved, we expect accountability

:38:56.:38:58.

and scrutiny and we expect a vote. Mr Speaker, I am going to conclude

:38:59.:39:05.

because we only have to hours and other people want to come in. These

:39:06.:39:09.

are simple amendments that would improve the Article 50 process, they

:39:10.:39:14.

have achieved cross-party support and large majorities in the Lords,

:39:15.:39:18.

they are vital amendments on important issues and the obsession

:39:19.:39:22.

of an amended bill should not triumph over decency and principle.

:39:23.:39:27.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. -- the obsession of an amended bill. Mr

:39:28.:39:35.

Oliver Letwin. It's about amendments to that I want to speak. The

:39:36.:39:41.

operative clause, as my right honourable friend said, is

:39:42.:39:46.

sub-clause four. I just want to remind the house of this because

:39:47.:39:53.

prior approval of Parliament should be required in relation to any

:39:54.:39:57.

decision by the Prime Minister that the UK shall leave the European

:39:58.:40:00.

Union without an agreement. I have already argued what my right

:40:01.:40:05.

honourable friend argued today in past debates, namely if that is

:40:06.:40:09.

sub-clause wouldn't have its intended effect it would be inimical

:40:10.:40:12.

to the interests of this country because it would have the undoubted

:40:13.:40:17.

effect of providing a massive incentive for our EU counterparts to

:40:18.:40:23.

give us the worst possible agreement. I agree but I think the

:40:24.:40:29.

situation is worse than the Secretary of State describes, far

:40:30.:40:32.

worse. Because this operative sub-clause is deeply deficient as a

:40:33.:40:38.

matter of law. And the reason for that is not just the one that Lord

:40:39.:40:44.

Pannick half admitted to in the House of Lords but because under

:40:45.:40:47.

plausible circumstances this sub-clause will have nothing like

:40:48.:40:52.

its intended effect. I just want briefly to illustrate why that is

:40:53.:40:59.

the case. Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union is for once in

:41:00.:41:05.

treaties entirely clear in the third clause of that article, it says the

:41:06.:41:11.

treaties shall cease to apply to the state in question. To years after

:41:12.:41:18.

the notification, unless the European Council unanimously decides

:41:19.:41:24.

to extend this period. Unless the European Council unanimously decides

:41:25.:41:29.

to extend the period. Let us imagine what I help and what the Secretary

:41:30.:41:34.

of State and the government and I suspect, and in fact why we are at

:41:35.:41:45.

it all members opposite, all negotiations for a proper trade

:41:46.:41:48.

agreement breakdown. We all hope that will not happen yet we cannot

:41:49.:41:53.

exclude the possibility that it may. If it does I think all members on

:41:54.:41:57.

either side of the house must have the emotional intelligence to

:41:58.:42:01.

recognise that in probability that would be in circumstances of

:42:02.:42:06.

acrimony. How likely is it, I ask, that under circumstances of the

:42:07.:42:11.

agreement having broken down in some acrimony, that the EU council will

:42:12.:42:17.

be able to achieve unanimous agreement to allow the UK to remain

:42:18.:42:22.

a member beyond the two-year period? I speculate that this is very

:42:23.:42:27.

unlikely. If we assume that that were to occur and we ask ourselves,

:42:28.:42:31.

what would happen under those circumstances, one thing we can

:42:32.:42:34.

predict with certainty is that there would be litigation. And the

:42:35.:42:39.

litigation would ask the Supreme Court ultimately to decide the

:42:40.:42:44.

question, what has happened here. As the Prime Minister made a decision

:42:45.:42:50.

or has the Prime Minister not made a decision. The courts could decide

:42:51.:42:56.

that in one of two ways. I think members on all sides would agree

:42:57.:43:00.

with me that the court would either decide that the Prime Minister has

:43:01.:43:04.

made the decision or not. Let's suppose that they decide that the

:43:05.:43:08.

Prime Minister has not because the decision has been made instead by

:43:09.:43:12.

the European Council. It is a plausible outcome of the court

:43:13.:43:16.

proceedings. In that case clause four has no effect whatsoever

:43:17.:43:20.

because what it does is to prevent the Prime Minister making a decision

:43:21.:43:23.

without a vote. If the Prime Minister has come in the running of

:43:24.:43:27.

the court, made no decision then it is not possible for her to have made

:43:28.:43:31.

a decision that a vote, therefore it does not give Parliament any ability

:43:32.:43:38.

to vote on the matter. I entirely agree with what might Wright friend

:43:39.:43:43.

says. There is a further point which is, in relation to the competing

:43:44.:43:47.

legislation at that point, it would be a question for the courts as to

:43:48.:43:53.

whether or not the provisions in the Lisbon Treaty, which deal with the

:43:54.:44:00.

question of Article 50, had somehow been amended or repealed by

:44:01.:44:09.

subsequent enactment. I agree with my right honourable friend about

:44:10.:44:12.

that but it seems to me that for this purpose we do not even need to

:44:13.:44:15.

raise that question because there's only one other possibility in this

:44:16.:44:19.

court action. And that is that the court decides that the Prime

:44:20.:44:22.

Minister has implicitly made the decision. I don't know how the court

:44:23.:44:28.

would get to that answer but they might speculate that had the Prime

:44:29.:44:32.

Minister acted differently in the negotiations, the council would have

:44:33.:44:37.

acted differently. Under those circumstances sub-clause forward

:44:38.:44:40.

purportedly come into effect. And that is, I suppose, what its authors

:44:41.:44:46.

intended. However, if the European Council had not, by the two-year

:44:47.:44:51.

period made a unanimous decision, and the court decided that the Prime

:44:52.:44:55.

Minister thereby implicitly decided, then the courts would require

:44:56.:44:58.

Parliament to do something impossible to do. Namely, to get the

:44:59.:45:03.

Prime Minister to reverse a decision which is a matter of ordinary

:45:04.:45:07.

language the Prime Minister wouldn't have made, at a time when the Prime

:45:08.:45:11.

Minister couldn't undo a decision because the European Council had

:45:12.:45:18.

made it! I am perfectly aware, Mr Speaker, that it is of the greatest

:45:19.:45:22.

importance that members of this house should show due deference to

:45:23.:45:27.

the Other Place. And I also genuinely admire the skills of those

:45:28.:45:30.

who are the authors of this amendment. But and put it to them

:45:31.:45:35.

that even the House of Lords in all its majesty cannot compel the Prime

:45:36.:45:41.

Minister to do something that is impossible -- I put it to them. That

:45:42.:45:46.

is beyond the scope of any human agency! I give way to my honourable

:45:47.:45:51.

friend. By Lord Patrick himself arguing in court that this is

:45:52.:45:58.

irreversible. Again I agree with my right honourable friend although the

:45:59.:46:03.

Supreme Court went to great pains not to refer that the ECJ. My point

:46:04.:46:11.

is, this sub-clause, the important one and we are debating today,

:46:12.:46:15.

either would have its intended effect, if it did it would be

:46:16.:46:19.

inimical to the interests of this country because it would induce the

:46:20.:46:22.

worst possible agreement to be offered, it will not have that

:46:23.:46:27.

effect and the worst possible circumstances and if it doesn't it

:46:28.:46:30.

is bad law. I put it to you Mr Speaker that there is House should

:46:31.:46:35.

not pass legislation inimical to the interests of this country or

:46:36.:46:38.

constituting Bradlaugh, so we should reject it. Mr Stephen Gethins. Thank

:46:39.:46:47.

you, Mr Speaker. This is a very timely debate over these amendments

:46:48.:46:50.

that go to the heart of the situation we find ourselves in.

:46:51.:46:55.

First, the SNP have been clear that we wanted to see much more detailed

:46:56.:47:01.

reassurance, maybe the occasional detail from the government and this

:47:02.:47:04.

is the parliamentary scrutiny should have come in. They should also be

:47:05.:47:08.

having a debate about the kind of country in which we want to live,

:47:09.:47:12.

and the kind of country that Scotland and the UK becomes and that

:47:13.:47:19.

is with the amendment on EU National 's comment. The Secretary of State

:47:20.:47:23.

may have caught the statement by the First Minister today in which she

:47:24.:47:26.

made it very clear that this is not the situation in which we wanted to

:47:27.:47:33.

find ourselves. In fact the Scottish Parliament voted across political

:47:34.:47:40.

parties, 92-0, that we should look at ways to secure our relationship

:47:41.:47:44.

with Europe. It is a critical relationship that we have the boss,

:47:45.:47:50.

European partners, one that impacts on and benefits each and every of

:47:51.:47:55.

us. And yet almost nine months on from the EU referendum we still

:47:56.:48:00.

don't have that much in the way of detail from an increasingly clueless

:48:01.:48:04.

government. The most detailed response we have so far to the EU

:48:05.:48:08.

referendum came in the form of a compromise from the Scottish

:48:09.:48:15.

Government just before Christmas. This was a compromise, let's not

:48:16.:48:19.

forget this, that when it meant Scotland leaving the EU against its

:48:20.:48:23.

will to protect our place in the single market, that has a big

:48:24.:48:26.

compromise, that took a lot from this side of the House to put that

:48:27.:48:30.

Ford, especially given that Scotland voted overwhelmingly,

:48:31.:48:36.

overwhelmingly, to remain part of the European Union. But we did that

:48:37.:48:41.

to protect our place in the single market as a way of protecting jobs

:48:42.:48:46.

and the economy and opportunities for young people and the environment

:48:47.:48:54.

in the face of a hard Tory Brexit. It has been suggested that we could

:48:55.:48:58.

lose up to 80,000 jobs in Scotland alone as a result of the plans on

:48:59.:49:03.

the government side. We have a responsibility to protect those

:49:04.:49:05.

jobs, to think about opportunities for young people, to think about the

:49:06.:49:12.

rights we get from our memberships of the European Union. We have a

:49:13.:49:15.

responsibility to protect those jobs, and not just roll over in the

:49:16.:49:20.

face of a disastrous Tory plan. I will give weight to my honourable

:49:21.:49:25.

friend. Last Friday met with major bus company in Scotland who said 70%

:49:26.:49:30.

of their drivers were made of EU immigrants. He said the only reason

:49:31.:49:38.

they won not seeing the same haemorrhaging of talents as their

:49:39.:49:41.

counterparts down south was because of the First Minister's reasonable

:49:42.:49:45.

and inclusive message that EU National 's are welcome. Does he

:49:46.:49:49.

agree that the UK Government could also benefit from... My honourable

:49:50.:49:54.

friend makes an excellent point, I will come onto EU marginals shortly.

:49:55.:49:59.

She makes the point that it is not just Scotland where jobs are

:50:00.:50:04.

threatened. In Parliament we have a responsibility to scrutinise, I will

:50:05.:50:10.

give way... I thank the honourable gentleman. Perhaps he could tell us

:50:11.:50:15.

on the same basis, how many jobs in Scotland would be lost if it left

:50:16.:50:21.

the United Kingdom? This is an extraordinary basis... My honourable

:50:22.:50:26.

colleague from the Foreign Affairs Committee forgets that it is his

:50:27.:50:29.

government that is already tell the people of Ireland that they need not

:50:30.:50:34.

to choose between the European Union and the UK, just as Scotland need

:50:35.:50:37.

not to choose between trading and the rest of the European Union. I

:50:38.:50:46.

want. I will make progress. -- I won't. There's a possibility that if

:50:47.:50:51.

we pass this today we are passing this government a blank cheque. A

:50:52.:50:54.

blank cheque on one of the most crucial issues that this parliament

:50:55.:50:59.

has ever discussed and one that will have an impact on each and every one

:51:00.:51:07.

of us and each and every one of our constituents. Let's not forget Mr

:51:08.:51:12.

Speaker we are handing a blank cheque to a government forced to

:51:13.:51:17.

deny its own tweets, correcting a White Paper not published and

:51:18.:51:20.

bringing out yet another shambolic budget. That is a government that

:51:21.:51:24.

you are handing a blank cheque to and this place would be handing a

:51:25.:51:28.

blank cheque to. Frankie Mr Speaker I am not sure we can trust them to

:51:29.:51:36.

run a bath, never mind very complex set of negotiations! The Secretary

:51:37.:51:40.

of State said that he had seen the best of parliamentary debate in this

:51:41.:51:43.

place and over the course of this bill. It is nice to say that he had

:51:44.:51:47.

seen the best of debates because he's spent millions trying to

:51:48.:51:52.

prevent us from having it in the first place! The basis of a

:51:53.:51:58.

democracy is that we can scrutinise and not acquiesce in the face of

:51:59.:52:01.

damaging plans which is what we will be doing by facing up to a blank

:52:02.:52:06.

cheque. It's the House of Lords of all places who have given us another

:52:07.:52:13.

opportunity today to save the House of Commons's blushes. We will be

:52:14.:52:18.

voting for and meaningful vote today although of course we would also

:52:19.:52:23.

have wanted to see a greater role for the devolved administrations as

:52:24.:52:29.

well. The lack of respect for devolved administrations and the

:52:30.:52:32.

promises made and subsequently broken during the independence

:52:33.:52:39.

referendums and EU referendums have led us to where we are today. Giving

:52:40.:52:44.

the independence referendum we were told the only way Scotland could

:52:45.:52:48.

guarantee to remain part of the EU was to vote against independence. We

:52:49.:52:52.

were told the only way to bring powers of immigration was to vote in

:52:53.:52:56.

favour of leaving the European Union.

:52:57.:53:02.

That is why the First Minister is right to be looking at the electoral

:53:03.:53:09.

mandate that the SNP were given last year the hold another independence

:53:10.:53:13.

referendum. The government may not be big on manifesto commitments, but

:53:14.:53:20.

the SNP are. The SNP were returned to power with more votes, the

:53:21.:53:27.

largest number of votes since devolution was established, with 47%

:53:28.:53:31.

of the constituency vote, compared to a Tory government to have brought

:53:32.:53:35.

this to the situation on a 36% of the votes, and less than 15% of the

:53:36.:53:44.

vote in Scotland. Let me move on to EU nationals. We must not forget the

:53:45.:53:57.

human elements of this. My honourable friend is talking about

:53:58.:54:01.

the human element for EU nationals. On Friday afternoon a Lithuanian

:54:02.:54:09.

attended my surgery saying the uncertainty caused by this

:54:10.:54:13.

government and this Parliament is making her feel worse about personal

:54:14.:54:18.

situation in Britain than she did in Lithuania under the Soviets. Does he

:54:19.:54:27.

agree with me... It is the words of a constituent. Does he agree with me

:54:28.:54:35.

that this Parliament should be ashamed is to be causing such

:54:36.:54:41.

uncertainty? I would like to thank her for raising that point. Many of

:54:42.:54:46.

us have listened to EU nationals who contribute so much financially and

:54:47.:54:50.

culturally, who would be a loss to the whole of the UK if we were to

:54:51.:54:57.

lose them. Therefore, I am not entirely sure why the government

:54:58.:55:04.

cannot give us the basis. I feel very passionate about EU citizens

:55:05.:55:07.

living in the United Kingdom being allowed to do so. The ad so much and

:55:08.:55:14.

it would be a human tragedy if they were forced to leave, but there are

:55:15.:55:19.

hundreds and thousands of Scottish people living in other EU countries.

:55:20.:55:24.

Doesn't he believe that they too want to be given the same guarantee

:55:25.:55:31.

at exactly the same time? He makes my point for me, the Scottish

:55:32.:55:35.

Government is looking to protect Scotland's relationship with Europe.

:55:36.:55:40.

If EU nationals are so important to them they will vote with us tonight

:55:41.:55:44.

to give them the certainty that they need and the certainty that they

:55:45.:55:48.

deserve and I look forward to him joining me. EU nationals who have

:55:49.:55:55.

made Scotland or the rest of the UK there home contribute so much. It is

:55:56.:55:58.

a better place in which to live and work. It makes our communities

:55:59.:56:03.

better. These are people with families and jobs. To give them

:56:04.:56:08.

certainty there is something simple that this side of the house can do,

:56:09.:56:15.

join us for a change. This goes to the heart of the kind of country,

:56:16.:56:20.

and normal members would do well to listen to this this time, goes to

:56:21.:56:26.

the heart of the kind of country we want to live in. We want to live in

:56:27.:56:33.

an open, inclusive country, or Age UK that is increasingly isolated in

:56:34.:56:38.

Europe and abroad? It seemed that this is a choice that people in

:56:39.:56:43.

Scotland are going to get. Today we are sitting on the edge of the abyss

:56:44.:56:48.

with this vote. The question is whether or not Scotland is going to

:56:49.:56:52.

be taken into the abyss with this Tory government. I'm glad that we on

:56:53.:56:59.

this side of the house have an alternative. The alternative is

:57:00.:57:02.

clear and respects the will of the people of Scotland, that seeks to

:57:03.:57:08.

work with our partners on these islands and across Europe and

:57:09.:57:11.

prosper as an equal and normal partner in the international

:57:12.:57:15.

community of nations and therefore we will be opposing the government

:57:16.:57:26.

tonight. Anna Sue Brie. I will keep my comments as short as possible so

:57:27.:57:29.

as many people as possible can speak. Can I just say this, it is

:57:30.:57:39.

surely perverse that we are in a situation whereby if there is a deal

:57:40.:57:45.

it comes back to this place and this place can debated and voted on it.

:57:46.:57:51.

But if there is the worse scenario, which is no deal, we are not

:57:52.:57:56.

entitled to that say or that vote. That simply cannot be right.

:57:57.:58:04.

actually isn't a debate about actually isn't a debate about

:58:05.:58:15.

voted against my conscience so that voted against my conscience so that

:58:16.:58:16.

I would honour the result and I voted for us to leave

:58:17.:58:17.

Union. We have had that one and are Union. We have had that one and are

:58:18.:58:23.

moving on. This is about Parliamentary sovereignty and there

:58:24.:58:26.

are some uncomfortable truths need to be said. It took a few brave

:58:27.:58:31.

souls, and the worst brief, to go to the High Court and Supreme Court to

:58:32.:58:34.

establish parliamentary sophistry and that is why we have this bill,

:58:35.:58:40.

not because we did it in this place, and history will record these

:58:41.:58:43.

things, but because of what they did. To the credit to the government

:58:44.:58:48.

they accepted that. I understand there is a good argument to be made

:58:49.:58:55.

that this is a short and simple bill. The difficulty is because of

:58:56.:59:03.

this inability to accept that in the worst case scenario this place is

:59:04.:59:10.

not allowed to have a say. This Secretary of State, of all members

:59:11.:59:15.

of this place, with his fine track record of establishing and fighting

:59:16.:59:18.

at every opportunity for the sovereignty of Parliament to be

:59:19.:59:22.

standing up and denying the stats on this particular item is ironic. Does

:59:23.:59:34.

she not accept that this place made a contract with the British people

:59:35.:59:39.

at that referendum, the SNP might not like it is true, therefore

:59:40.:59:46.

whatever the deal, if there is a good deal we will take it if there

:59:47.:59:50.

isn't the Prime Minister has made it clear we will not accept the bad

:59:51.:59:54.

deal, we move on and be moved out of the EU. The honourable gentleman

:59:55.:00:00.

forgets there was one question on the ballot paper, are we remaining

:00:01.:00:07.

or leaving the EU? That people voted to leave, and that is what we are

:00:08.:00:12.

doing. Some on the side have honoured that result and have voted

:00:13.:00:17.

for us to leave. Now we are talking about the sovereignty of this

:00:18.:00:20.

Parliament and what happens in the event that our Prime Minister

:00:21.:00:24.

doesn't strike that deal? I trust our Prime Minister to do everything

:00:25.:00:30.

that she can. Let us make no mistake about this and be under no

:00:31.:00:34.

illusions, if she doesn't get to strike that deal there will be no

:00:35.:00:43.

other alternative but WTO tariffs and regulation and rules and the

:00:44.:00:48.

people in my constituency certainly did not vote for that. The

:00:49.:00:51.

honourable gentleman from a secondary place says, so? I can

:00:52.:00:57.

assure the honourable gentleman it is not just me but my Prime Minister

:00:58.:01:01.

he takes the view that falling off the cliff edge is the worst possible

:01:02.:01:06.

outcome for the people of this country and it is the one thing we

:01:07.:01:13.

must, we must make sure doesn't happen. This place that event must

:01:14.:01:23.

help and assist the government. What I really say to some honourable

:01:24.:01:27.

members opposite is this, that we know that there is in the event of

:01:28.:01:34.

no deal, and it would be a remarkable set of the gutsy agents

:01:35.:01:39.

to get three bespoke deals within what will be an 18 month time frame,

:01:40.:01:44.

but let us say that worst-case scenario happens and there are no

:01:45.:01:47.

deals, what I would say to honourable members opposite

:01:48.:01:52.

especially those in the north of Ireland is, in Northern Ireland, the

:01:53.:02:01.

honourable gentleman is... The real danger we face is that cliff edge

:02:02.:02:05.

and in that event the hard border that none of us wants an arrogant,

:02:06.:02:11.

and it may well be that in two years' time things will have changed

:02:12.:02:14.

remarkably in our country, not just politically but economically.

:02:15.:02:18.

Economic and we could find that having had the buoyancy of the

:02:19.:02:22.

devalued pound and people spending on the basis of their savings, that

:02:23.:02:27.

inflation has kicked in and our economy is not in the fine fettle in

:02:28.:02:32.

which it looks like it is now. Politically, we will find that it

:02:33.:02:38.

had a great home of our nation that we will be facing the break-up of

:02:39.:02:42.

this union with the possibility of the Scots going there a way with a

:02:43.:02:48.

referendum and, tragically, for Northern Ireland, talk of a united

:02:49.:02:53.

Ireland or a breakdown of the peace that has been left some years. In

:02:54.:02:59.

that event, all options must remain open for us to debate and the side

:03:00.:03:03.

because it could be we decide to restore the free movement of labour

:03:04.:03:08.

and brief look at the benefits of the single market, which will solve

:03:09.:03:12.

the problem for Northern Ireland and is for Scotland. Would she agreed

:03:13.:03:20.

there is not only an issue of principle here of parliamentary

:03:21.:03:24.

sophistry. There is also an issue of good practice and we shouldn't

:03:25.:03:28.

swallow this incentive to offer the worst possible deal argument at all.

:03:29.:03:32.

An amendment number two would instead -- would instil

:03:33.:03:45.

accountability to the government. Interventions must be brief. ID find

:03:46.:03:54.

that absolutely the idea that if we do the right thing, which is the

:03:55.:03:59.

lies to have a say in the event of no deal, that somehow we weakened

:04:00.:04:05.

Prime Minister's because the hand. All the divisions that still exist

:04:06.:04:07.

in our country, they are not being reported throughout the whole of

:04:08.:04:13.

Europe, as if that isn't happening. They know how divided our nation is.

:04:14.:04:17.

They know about the deliberations in this place and the other place and

:04:18.:04:23.

the also know that of those who voted, it was only 52% that voted

:04:24.:04:28.

for us to leave the European Union. I would urge the government for the

:04:29.:04:36.

sake of bringing unity, not just in these benches, but also to the

:04:37.:04:40.

country at large, that they allow Parliament sovereignty to rain and

:04:41.:04:43.

in the event of no deal we have a boat and a say. I declare an

:04:44.:04:50.

interest because on the issue of EU citizens in the United Kingdom for

:04:51.:04:54.

me the political is personal, as I expected this from any other

:04:55.:04:58.

members. The two most important women in my life, my mother who is

:04:59.:05:02.

Dutch are my Spanish wife are affected by this. Whilst there are

:05:03.:05:07.

special to me I think that their and the uncertainty which which they

:05:08.:05:13.

have endured is typical for many of our constituents. My mother has

:05:14.:05:17.

lived here for more than 50 years, raised four children, work as a

:05:18.:05:23.

teacher, Peter taxes, my wife loves this country, not the weather but

:05:24.:05:27.

she loves this country, is raising children here, pay taxes and works

:05:28.:05:34.

here. It simply beggars belief that people like them and millions like

:05:35.:05:39.

him have had a question placed over their status, their peace of mind,

:05:40.:05:44.

there well-being in our great country because of the action or the

:05:45.:05:47.

shameful inaction of this government.

:05:48.:05:53.

The? Is placed there by the EU not by the Government. If the EU said

:05:54.:06:01.

our citizens abroad I received some or all of the EU citizens here. And

:06:02.:06:06.

honourable member would stop blaming the back traffic on the EU, it is

:06:07.:06:10.

absurd. We picked a fight, not the EU. One observation to be Secretary

:06:11.:06:17.

of State, even if he gets the deal, which I by the way believe he wishes

:06:18.:06:23.

to seek on this issue EU citizens here and EU citizens there, even if

:06:24.:06:30.

that goes smoothly and quickly, I would press him on this point, there

:06:31.:06:36.

is no earthly way that this Government can separate the 3

:06:37.:06:39.

million EU citizens which are already here from the millions who

:06:40.:06:43.

may after a certain cut-off date want to come and live and study and

:06:44.:06:48.

work in the future without creating in mountainous volume of red tape.

:06:49.:06:52.

Reminds me, that wasn't one of the principal reasons we were told by

:06:53.:06:56.

the honourable member and so many others that we should leave the

:06:57.:07:00.

European Union to free ourselves from red tape, yet this Government

:07:01.:07:03.

is going to create tsunami wave of red tape which EU citizens,

:07:04.:07:08.

including my mum and my wife in the future, will rightly resent just as

:07:09.:07:12.

much as the always resented red tape in Brussels. In particular irony is

:07:13.:07:17.

that the Right honourable member and myself worked very closely together

:07:18.:07:22.

as an opposition party spokespeople 12 years ago in this chamber against

:07:23.:07:27.

the then Government's attempt of opposing ID cards and I predict he

:07:28.:07:31.

and his Government will have to introduce something not identical

:07:32.:07:35.

but strikingly similar to trailer behind ID cards. And finally, Mr

:07:36.:07:44.

Speaker, to the other and perhaps more meaningful amendment, Mr

:07:45.:07:46.

Speaker, the double standards we have just heard on red tape is

:07:47.:07:51.

duplicated several times over by the double standards of Brexit he was

:07:52.:07:58.

saying we should free ourselves from the lack of Deco dad-mac Democratic

:07:59.:08:02.

accountability, the first thing they do is undermined and weaken the

:08:03.:08:06.

principle of democratic accountability in this House. I

:08:07.:08:10.

listened closely to the Government's is projecting an amendment,

:08:11.:08:14.

including today, there is no first principal argument against it

:08:15.:08:17.

because we didn't concede the principle of a vote, they just don't

:08:18.:08:21.

like us to have the freedom to decide what that vote should be on.

:08:22.:08:26.

They have come up with some laughable argument we have heard

:08:27.:08:29.

repeated here today, but if we have just the bog-standard plain vanilla

:08:30.:08:34.

accountability exerted by the House of Commons and the other planes to

:08:35.:08:39.

any announcement made by the Prime Minister in two years, it will serve

:08:40.:08:44.

an incentive for the EU to give us a bad deal. By that logic, Mr Speaker,

:08:45.:08:50.

the only Government that can successfully negotiate international

:08:51.:08:54.

agreements are dictatorships. They are democracies, democracy can

:08:55.:08:57.

coexist with a good international agreements. Mr Speaker, I have come

:08:58.:09:04.

to the conclusion that the reason why the Government is digging its

:09:05.:09:08.

heels in as stubbornly as it is it because it think it's going to strut

:09:09.:09:15.

its stuff and impress our soon EU negotiating partners by indulging in

:09:16.:09:19.

this Parliamentary and procedural machismo here. You didn't think

:09:20.:09:23.

there are kidding? Doublethink angler Michael has put everything a

:09:24.:09:26.

fight to look at the debate this afternoon? Look at the week number

:09:27.:09:33.

ten is unceremoniously evicted Lord Heseltine. We better give them a

:09:34.:09:39.

good deal! Does the Secretary of State think that a hard EU

:09:40.:09:48.

negotiator, we better lower the price tag because they are being

:09:49.:09:52.

sold half with their own people. It is a ludicrous assertion. I simply

:09:53.:09:56.

cede to the Government benches at this last 59 seconds of the 11th

:09:57.:09:59.

hour of this debate on this amendment is this, stubbornness can

:10:00.:10:08.

be a sign of suspicion and weakness, not strength. Rejecting the rightful

:10:09.:10:12.

conventional role of the House of Commons and the other place to apply

:10:13.:10:17.

democratic accountability to the actions and decisions of the

:10:18.:10:21.

executive can be a sign of weakness, not strength. And this specious

:10:22.:10:26.

argument that condemns the lack of democratic accountability in

:10:27.:10:30.

Brussels, whilst undermining it in here, in the mother of all

:10:31.:10:34.

parliaments, is a slight of hand, which should not be lightly

:10:35.:10:42.

forgotten! I am grateful, it is a particular pleasure to follow the

:10:43.:10:45.

right honourable gentleman as he and I spent a number of years working

:10:46.:10:50.

together in coalition Government, which I know it wasn't enormously

:10:51.:10:54.

fruitful for all on my site and I think for his remarks. Mr Speaker,

:10:55.:10:59.

let me just deal with the one opening point and then I will refer

:11:00.:11:04.

to these specific amendments. Rather than making a general speech. One

:11:05.:11:09.

observation would be that we said to be House of Lords, coming back to

:11:10.:11:12.

the right honourable gentleman's point about process, in the short

:11:13.:11:19.

and well drafted and tightly focused villa. The House of Lords's usual

:11:20.:11:24.

argument and criticism of this House is that we send long, badly draft

:11:25.:11:30.

did legislation which they have to be improved. It seems to me in this

:11:31.:11:34.

case that we sent them a short tightly focused well drafted Bill

:11:35.:11:40.

does one very specific thing and they made the Bill longer, poorly

:11:41.:11:45.

drafted and reduced the quality of the legislation and he should help

:11:46.:11:49.

them out this afternoon by getting rid of their poorly drafted

:11:50.:11:53.

amendments and sending it back to them in the same expertly drafted

:11:54.:11:59.

form it started. The simple truth is best, Deal or no Deal, vote or no

:12:00.:12:03.

vote, positive vote or negative vote, this process is irreversible,

:12:04.:12:09.

we are leaving the EU and that's what the people want. I am grateful

:12:10.:12:15.

to my honourable friend. Let me deal now, Mr Speaker, with the two

:12:16.:12:20.

amendments before us, which my right honourable friend the Secretary of

:12:21.:12:22.

State is inviting the House to disagree with lordships. The first

:12:23.:12:29.

one on EU nationals, I listen very carefully to the debate that we have

:12:30.:12:34.

just had on this and I think I heard while the debate was underway the

:12:35.:12:40.

member for pressure suggesting to the Secretary of State he could put

:12:41.:12:44.

people's mind at rest by accepting the amendment. I disagree with that.

:12:45.:12:50.

If you read what the amendment says, as opposed to what people have

:12:51.:12:53.

asserted it says, all it says is that the Government should bring

:12:54.:12:57.

forward proposals within three months to deal with people who are

:12:58.:13:03.

legally resident in Britain. Here is why I think this is faulty. First of

:13:04.:13:08.

all, three months pits an arbitrary time limit which will be decided by

:13:09.:13:13.

judges, if people challenge it. Which may be in the middle of the

:13:14.:13:16.

negotiation process that the Secretary of State will carry out to

:13:17.:13:20.

secure the rights of British citizens and could well disrupt that

:13:21.:13:24.

process. Second and more importantly, it talks about those

:13:25.:13:28.

who are legally resident in the country today and there are two

:13:29.:13:32.

groups, one I would like to be more generous to, and one would like to

:13:33.:13:36.

be less generous two. The first group, those we have discovered

:13:37.:13:41.

perhaps didn't understand European Union legislation which says you are

:13:42.:13:45.

legally resident here if are a student by self-sufficient, only if

:13:46.:13:49.

you have comprehensive health insurance. Many people fail that

:13:50.:13:54.

test. I think it would be sensible for us to take a generous approach

:13:55.:13:58.

when we are legislating for people to be able to stay here. The

:13:59.:14:03.

amendment, as drafted, does not suggest that we do that. I think the

:14:04.:14:08.

Government could be more generous to EU nationals who are here making

:14:09.:14:12.

their lives here and that amendment suggests. I think that would be

:14:13.:14:17.

welcome. Does my right honourable friend agree with me that if we get

:14:18.:14:21.

to the point where all our proceedings have to be put into

:14:22.:14:27.

legislation on the subject we cannot proceed, we will cease to be

:14:28.:14:30.

sovereign? That point is very well made. It leads me onto my second

:14:31.:14:38.

point. There is another group of EU nationals, unlike the EU nationals

:14:39.:14:42.

we have already been talking about who we all want to protect, those

:14:43.:14:47.

who has here working and contributing, there are a

:14:48.:14:50.

significant number, a small percentage, but a significant number

:14:51.:14:55.

of EU nationals in Britain who have broken the criminal law. There are

:14:56.:14:58.

four and a half thousand EU nationals in prison. They are

:14:59.:15:04.

legally resident in this country. That amendment, as drafted, would

:15:05.:15:08.

mean that when they are released from prison after serving their

:15:09.:15:11.

sentence it would be very difficult for my right honourable friend the

:15:12.:15:17.

Home Secretary, very difficult for her to remove their right to stay in

:15:18.:15:22.

this country and deport them back to their home country, which frankly is

:15:23.:15:25.

what I want to see us do. What I would like us to do as a country is

:15:26.:15:28.

the more generous to those who come here to work and to contribute and

:15:29.:15:33.

to study but I would like is to be less generous to those who come here

:15:34.:15:36.

to break our laws, violate the welcoming trust we gave them. I

:15:37.:15:41.

don't want to fetter the hands of ministers in doing that. The

:15:42.:15:45.

amendment is poorly drafted, doesn't provide that reassurance and I ask

:15:46.:15:49.

the House to rejected. The final thing on EU nationals referring to

:15:50.:15:55.

the point the honourable and loaded lady from Edinburgh 's south-west,

:15:56.:15:57.

all I would say, I listened very carefully to what she said about her

:15:58.:16:01.

Lithuanian constituent, I hope your constituents will forgive me that I

:16:02.:16:07.

didn't catch her name. I hope the honourable Leonard lady when she was

:16:08.:16:09.

talking to her constituent was able to reassure her by explaining to her

:16:10.:16:17.

the very clear assurances that a Prime Minister of her country has

:16:18.:16:20.

placed on the record about wanting to make sure that constituent, I

:16:21.:16:24.

hope she is able to confirm to the home she did say. I am happy to

:16:25.:16:29.

confirm exactly what my constituents said. She cannot apply for permanent

:16:30.:16:42.

residency because she does not have comprehensive sickness insurance. I

:16:43.:16:45.

advised her the committee of which I am part, the exiting EU select

:16:46.:16:50.

committee, has asked the Government to rectify that matter and they have

:16:51.:16:57.

not as yet done so. I am very pleased actually the honourable lady

:16:58.:17:00.

made that point because if she'd listened any remark that I need I

:17:01.:17:05.

said there were constituents who thought they were here legally but

:17:06.:17:09.

because they don't have comprehensive health insurance are

:17:10.:17:13.

not actually legally resident. The amendment, as drafted, wouldn't

:17:14.:17:20.

provide them with reassurance. But I actually said is a former

:17:21.:17:24.

Immigration Minister I would be generous to constituents like her,

:17:25.:17:28.

which is why I want that deal and I want my right honourable friend the

:17:29.:17:32.

Home Secretary to bring forward that immigration legislation to sort that

:17:33.:17:35.

out. This amendment doesn't do any such thing and people shouldn't

:17:36.:17:40.

mislead people by telling people it does. I would say to my honourable

:17:41.:17:43.

friend is that they should reject it. Let me just move on to the

:17:44.:17:50.

second point. I am conscious there are others who want to speak. The

:17:51.:17:55.

second amendment about a meaningful vote, it falls into two parts. There

:17:56.:18:00.

are those parts where the Government has already said it would bring

:18:01.:18:05.

forward decisions before the house if the Prime Minister strikes a good

:18:06.:18:11.

deal. Both on our article 50 divorce negotiations but also on our future

:18:12.:18:16.

trade relationships. There is a very good reason for not putting it in

:18:17.:18:21.

statute. As soon as you put it in statute, you enable people to

:18:22.:18:26.

challenge the process, to go to quoits, and to frustrate the ability

:18:27.:18:32.

of this House and our Government to conclude those negotiations. The

:18:33.:18:36.

final point, Mr Speaker, I would make reference to the final part of

:18:37.:18:41.

that second amendment which my right honourable friend the member for

:18:42.:18:45.

West Dorset set out very carefully. There are two parts to my

:18:46.:18:50.

objections. The first part is I don't agree with the party opposite.

:18:51.:18:58.

I do think if we say that either the House of Commons or the House of

:18:59.:19:02.

Lords is able to frustrate us leaving the European Union by

:19:03.:19:06.

getting a deal which we do not think is a good one, then I think they

:19:07.:19:11.

will absolutely do so. I listened carefully to what my honourable

:19:12.:19:16.

friend, the member for Broxton said, I couldn't help think that the

:19:17.:19:21.

conclusion to her remarks, if we got a bad deal, was that she wanted us

:19:22.:19:26.

to stay in the European Union. That seems to be the conclusion of what

:19:27.:19:32.

she said. What I am seeing as if we don't get a deal, we should come

:19:33.:19:37.

back here, consider all options, given the circumstances that we

:19:38.:19:41.

would get ourselves in and it may well... I am so sorry. I thought we

:19:42.:19:49.

lived in a democracy. It is unlikely to see how we would go back on our

:19:50.:19:56.

decision to leave the EU. I listened carefully to what my honourable

:19:57.:20:00.

friend says. It seems to me if I consider the question that was paid,

:20:01.:20:04.

I have said this before in this House in a referendum, it was an

:20:05.:20:08.

unconditional question about whether we should remain on whether we

:20:09.:20:12.

should leave. We didn't see to the public, some people think maybe we

:20:13.:20:15.

should have done, but we didn't. We didn't say if we get a fabulous

:20:16.:20:20.

deal, and we should leave. It said, should we leave remain? I was on the

:20:21.:20:26.

remaining side of the argument. But I accept that the people of the

:20:27.:20:31.

United Kingdom made a different decision and it behoves us all,

:20:32.:20:37.

balloons us to support the Prime Minister in getting the best

:20:38.:20:42.

possible deal given that we are leaving, even if there is a bad deal

:20:43.:20:46.

that we can't accept, we are still leaving the European Union, that is

:20:47.:20:51.

why and would urge my honourable friend to disagree with the Lloyd's,

:20:52.:20:56.

both of the amendments before us today. Only 40 minutes to remain. I

:20:57.:21:00.

do need members to help each other. All all the arguments of supporting

:21:01.:21:11.

these amendment be suggesting we should not do because they are got

:21:12.:21:17.

back on that basis everything we put the legislation we might as well

:21:18.:21:24.

pack up and go home. Mr Speaker I rise to support the two amendments.

:21:25.:21:30.

I wish to draw the house's attention to the unanimous recommendation of

:21:31.:21:34.

the select committee which I chaired, which said the Government

:21:35.:21:39.

should now make a unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of

:21:40.:21:43.

EU National is in the United Kingdom and I say to the Secretary of State,

:21:44.:21:47.

the only argument for not doing that, is if someone is prepared to

:21:48.:21:59.

put the status of those 3 million EU citizens into play in the

:22:00.:22:03.

negotiations. That is the only argument because it raises the

:22:04.:22:06.

question how would that be done and to what purpose? It is precisely

:22:07.:22:10.

because the Minister and the Prime Minister have been so clear in

:22:11.:22:15.

saying to the house, we intend to ensure the status and their rights,

:22:16.:22:19.

but nobody in this chamber believes the Government would be prepared to

:22:20.:22:24.

do that. If you are not prepared to put their status into play in

:22:25.:22:27.

negotiations why not now do the right thing and tell them they can

:22:28.:22:35.

stay? I will give way briefly. Is it not the case the Government's

:22:36.:22:42.

position on EU citizens is based on a fiction because if they were not

:22:43.:22:47.

to grant status to stay, presumably they would remove those who cannot

:22:48.:22:52.

stay from the UK but the current Immigration Minister has said they

:22:53.:22:57.

do not know where EU citizens are in order to remove them from the UK. It

:22:58.:23:03.

is an empty threat so why cause all this stress? I agree with my friend

:23:04.:23:08.

back entirely. It cannot be contemplated, the whole house knows

:23:09.:23:12.

it cannot be contemplated under for the Government should follow the

:23:13.:23:16.

advice of the select committee. Or the second Amendment, I listen

:23:17.:23:20.

carefully to the arguments the Secretary of State advanced, but I

:23:21.:23:23.

gently say to them I don't think they would have persuaded the right

:23:24.:23:27.

honourable gentlemen himself in his previous incarnation before he

:23:28.:23:31.

became the Secretary of State. On this point that the honourable

:23:32.:23:38.

member for Sheffield, Hallam raised about incentive to offer a bad deal,

:23:39.:23:45.

just pause for a moment. If that argument holds any sway whatsoever

:23:46.:23:50.

it holds sway when ministers got up to the dispatch box and said, we

:23:51.:23:55.

will give you a vote on a draft deal. It cannot be the case that if

:23:56.:24:00.

the Government offers a vote on the draft of it does not raise the

:24:01.:24:05.

possibility of a bad deal being offered, whereas in this house if we

:24:06.:24:10.

choose to put back vote on the statute book it does raise the

:24:11.:24:14.

possibility of there being a bad deal offered. The two are wholly

:24:15.:24:19.

inconsistent as arguments and the house, I think, is not persuaded. My

:24:20.:24:25.

final point, I listened so carefully to the language used by the

:24:26.:24:30.

Secretary of State who I see is engaged in earnest conversations,

:24:31.:24:34.

and talk about being able to act with out our hands being tied. The

:24:35.:24:39.

top about being able to pass the bill without any strings attached. I

:24:40.:24:45.

just say to them, this house, we are not strings, we are part of our

:24:46.:24:54.

democracy and we are very attached to that democracy. And this

:24:55.:24:59.

amendment, the second one, is not about seeking to reverse a decision

:25:00.:25:04.

of the referendum. I and many others who voted, as the honourable member

:25:05.:25:08.

for Broxtowe did, for this legislation because we respect the

:25:09.:25:11.

outcome of the referendum, but it is about Parliament deciding how we

:25:12.:25:22.

leave the EU. There is a terrible irony in hearing voices of those who

:25:23.:25:26.

are in the course of the referendum used as one of the principal

:25:27.:25:29.

argument we should vote to leave to restore sovereignty, for them now to

:25:30.:25:37.

see their enthusiasm for that sovereignty disappear in a puff of

:25:38.:25:42.

smoke, when the house is asked to put that sovereignty on the statute

:25:43.:25:46.

book. Finally, I say to the right honourable gentlemen, it is now time

:25:47.:25:51.

to put behind without we voted leave or remain in the referendum, come

:25:52.:25:56.

together and put aside division, including resisting the division

:25:57.:26:00.

that is now being urged upon us by others in this chamber. I say to

:26:01.:26:06.

him, having Parliament behind you in these negotiations and knowing in

:26:07.:26:09.

the end the Government was to come to Parliament for what they are able

:26:10.:26:14.

to achieve in negotiations, is not a weakness for this country, it is a

:26:15.:26:17.

strength and the sooner the Government recognises this the

:26:18.:26:23.

better. I campaign for remain in the

:26:24.:26:28.

referendum last year, believing it was in the best medium-term economic

:26:29.:26:32.

interests of my constituents. I did this having stood in a manifesto

:26:33.:26:35.

that promised the British people they can vote on membership of the

:26:36.:26:39.

EU and which would honour the result of the referendum what about the

:26:40.:26:43.

outcome. We must remember in this place a record number of people

:26:44.:26:50.

turned out to vote, bottling of recent electoral trends. There were

:26:51.:26:54.

a massive 72% of electors who turns out, many of my constituents who had

:26:55.:27:00.

never ever voted before because they thought until then there are voices

:27:01.:27:04.

and votes did not count. They did so for the first time. Contrary to what

:27:05.:27:09.

commentators on both the left and the right may say, these people are

:27:10.:27:13.

not simpletons, they are not children, they are adults would have

:27:14.:27:18.

much right to vote as you and I. They knew the risks of voting to

:27:19.:27:23.

leave and did so anyway and we must respect that decision not undermine

:27:24.:27:29.

it. The bill before us... I will not give way because so many members

:27:30.:27:35.

wish to speak. The bill before us is the legal mechanism to begin

:27:36.:27:39.

negotiations. All members, which ever side of the house they sit on

:27:40.:27:44.

and which information they represent, must wish these

:27:45.:27:49.

negotiations are successful. There is no doubt there will be protracted

:27:50.:27:54.

and they will be difficult. It is only in the best interests of all

:27:55.:27:58.

others and the best interests of our constituents, we must give the Prime

:27:59.:28:02.

Minister and her team of ministers the whole negotiating team the

:28:03.:28:09.

strongest hand possible. The noble lord's second amendment hampers

:28:10.:28:16.

this. The precondition... If the honourable Regulus and I will

:28:17.:28:20.

elucidate. The preconditions mean whatever the negotiating team were

:28:21.:28:24.

to say, our EU counterparts would think they could frustrate, delay or

:28:25.:28:30.

even veto. Certainty was the number one priority and the Prime

:28:31.:28:33.

Minister's Lancaster house speech and how can there be any certainty

:28:34.:28:39.

for businesses, constituents or our European partners if there is the

:28:40.:28:42.

prospect for endless review by this place. I will not give way. As the

:28:43.:28:48.

noble lord Hill said on the debate on this bill, a man of great

:28:49.:28:55.

experience, he said this of all European counterparts. They need to

:28:56.:29:00.

know what our negotiators say they can deliver. I therefore urge all

:29:01.:29:05.

members to reject the Lord' amendment and give the Prime

:29:06.:29:07.

Minister the strongest possible hand.

:29:08.:29:16.

The I have only three points to make in terms of the time available. I

:29:17.:29:21.

thought early and missed the bit when my friend from South Perthshire

:29:22.:29:27.

asked the secretary of state whether he would be prepared to deport these

:29:28.:29:30.

European national in our midst, he said of course not. Somebody... Of

:29:31.:29:38.

course that is the case and that would be the case for every member

:29:39.:29:42.

with perhaps one or two exceptions. But the vast majority would not

:29:43.:29:49.

countenance ever doing that which is exactly why they cease to be any

:29:50.:29:54.

sort of bargaining chip, even if we thought the international trade

:29:55.:29:57.

Secretary was right to say they were an important card we must play, even

:29:58.:30:02.

if that were acceptable language, it is not a card. It is like nuclear

:30:03.:30:06.

deterrent, if you're not going to press the button it is not a

:30:07.:30:09.

deterrent and if you're not prepared to follow through or to use people

:30:10.:30:13.

in that way then it cannot be a bargaining chip or a card to play.

:30:14.:30:17.

Therefore, the correct course of action for the Government has

:30:18.:30:22.

unilaterally to accept and to secure the position of our fellow citizens

:30:23.:30:27.

working and contributing among others, there is no possibility of

:30:28.:30:32.

them being effectively used as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Do

:30:33.:30:38.

the right thing. Accept the Lord' amendments. Yesterday the nation was

:30:39.:30:42.

transfixed as we tried to interpret the latest Government policy on a

:30:43.:30:46.

Brexit. Should we follow in one channel that the advice of the

:30:47.:30:51.

Foreign Secretary when he said there will be no problem if we resort to

:30:52.:30:56.

WTO terms, or should it be the advice of the international trade

:30:57.:31:00.

secretary who admitted on another channel indeed it would be a

:31:01.:31:04.

problem. We were all watching the wrong people. We should have been

:31:05.:31:09.

watching the Brexit secretary on the Andrew Marr show when he was getting

:31:10.:31:15.

to the guts of the problem we have. Andrew Marr, so what happens if they

:31:16.:31:20.

do not accept it? Meaning if we vote down the deal the Government brings

:31:21.:31:26.

to us in our meaningful vote. And so, well, then, that is what is

:31:27.:31:31.

called the most favoured deal, what the World Trade Organisation. When

:31:32.:31:37.

we had the committee stage of this debate they were trying to tempt out

:31:38.:31:41.

of the Minister of State when he appeared at the dispatch box in a

:31:42.:31:47.

flourish, or as much as a flourish of the minister does, then told us

:31:48.:31:52.

the Government would have a meaningful vote. Member after member

:31:53.:31:57.

said what happens in this vote if we reject the Government's terms?

:31:58.:32:02.

Yesterday we had the answer from the Brexit secretary. Then it is WTO

:32:03.:32:08.

terms. Our Deal or no Deal. Other way or the highway. It is absolutely

:32:09.:32:13.

clear and no fault can be asked back no vote can be described as

:32:14.:32:18.

meaningful if the alternative is the damage of WTO terms. Lastly,

:32:19.:32:22.

thinking about the injunction of different with us to be brief, that

:32:23.:32:28.

is we are asked why should we not just accept the words of the Brexit

:32:29.:32:33.

secretary and these other chaps in the Government when they tell us

:32:34.:32:37.

things and we do not need to put things into legislation. Can I quote

:32:38.:32:41.

a bit of the history of the assurances we have been given in

:32:42.:32:43.

Scotland in terms of this legislation? Telegraph, Theresa May

:32:44.:32:50.

indicated and said she will not trigger the formal process for

:32:51.:32:54.

leaving the EU until there is an entry to UK approach backed by

:32:55.:32:58.

Scotland. 15th of July last year. I admit, that is not an answer but

:32:59.:33:03.

surely the Daily Telegraph is the nearest the Tories can carve to an

:33:04.:33:09.

official report? That promise has been swept away and that commitment

:33:10.:33:14.

are broken. As indeed was the reaction to the Scottish

:33:15.:33:17.

Government's action to keep us all in the single market. Not even

:33:18.:33:22.

regarded seriously or consulted before the Prime Minister dismissed

:33:23.:33:26.

that as an alternative. Then the compromise, that Scotland stay

:33:27.:33:29.

within the single market place even if this Government is determined to

:33:30.:33:35.

drag the rest of the UK out. Not even given serious consideration.

:33:36.:33:40.

Over the last three months no substantive reply because in their

:33:41.:33:45.

arrogance this Government believes the 48% across the UK, the members

:33:46.:33:50.

of the House of Lords, the people of doubts on the own backbenchers, the

:33:51.:33:53.

nations in this country, two of which voted for remain, our view

:33:54.:34:00.

does not matter. It can be swept aside as we proceed headlong to be

:34:01.:34:05.

heard Brexit cliff edge. Today in Scotland is perhaps the Government

:34:06.:34:08.

were disabused of that notion because there might not be a real

:34:09.:34:13.

vote in meaningful vote in this chamber but there shall be a

:34:14.:34:20.

meaningful vote in Scotland to protect our millennium long history

:34:21.:34:25.

as a European nation. With extreme brevity is now on both sides of the

:34:26.:34:35.

house. This is a very simple bill, it is as

:34:36.:34:42.

simple as triggering. The second thing as far as the question of

:34:43.:34:49.

judicial review is concerned, the plain fact is this will be a gift to

:34:50.:34:56.

the courts and the gift to the lawyers. It is completely

:34:57.:34:59.

inappropriate. The third point regarding the question of

:35:00.:35:02.

sovereignty of Parliament, the fact is that this is not this issue today

:35:03.:35:07.

about parliamentary sovereignty, in fact, it is about undermining a

:35:08.:35:15.

decision made by a referendum of the British people which was itself

:35:16.:35:19.

confirmed by sovereign act of Parliament. That is the distinction

:35:20.:35:24.

and what we need to concentrate on. The next point and the last point I

:35:25.:35:31.

wanted to make this simply this, we cannot tie the Prime Minister's

:35:32.:35:37.

hands. It is inconceivable we would actually legislate and make it

:35:38.:35:41.

judicially reviewable and that the same time passed amendments to the

:35:42.:35:50.

effect that introduce committee of Parliament deciding questions which

:35:51.:35:55.

have to be decided by Government. We are it constitutional constitution

:35:56.:36:02.

that works by governments, not by committee of Parliament or otherwise

:36:03.:36:06.

we would go back to the 17th century and I invite people to look at the

:36:07.:36:08.

bare-bones Parliament. How these two make two brief points.

:36:09.:36:19.

The first is if we don't deal with the issue of EU nationals here or UK

:36:20.:36:25.

nationals in the EU 27 now in the next three months, they will get

:36:26.:36:29.

caught up in the negotiations because the council is due to

:36:30.:36:35.

respond to the trigger an Article 50 in May or June after we have the

:36:36.:36:40.

French elections on the 7th of May. We are expecting the council to give

:36:41.:36:47.

a mandate around that time. If the Government continues to drag its

:36:48.:36:51.

heels on this important issue and it is important for not only EU

:36:52.:36:55.

nationals here but for our National is elsewhere, if they continue to

:36:56.:37:00.

drag their heels, these people, their livelihoods, the certainty and

:37:01.:37:03.

uncertainty this will provoke will cause them for two years. What is

:37:04.:37:09.

the Government going to do once the formal negotiations and article 50

:37:10.:37:13.

on the money and all the things that is going to be so much acrimony

:37:14.:37:16.

about, how is the Government going to avoid EU nationals here and UK

:37:17.:37:24.

nationals in the EU being part of that negotiation. I don't think the

:37:25.:37:29.

Secretary of State provided an answer to that question. We have a

:37:30.:37:33.

short window and it will probably start tomorrow and end sometime in

:37:34.:37:37.

May or June. The second point I wanted to make was to reiterate

:37:38.:37:43.

something be right honourable lady for Broxton said in her very

:37:44.:37:50.

eloquent speech. I find it difficult actually impossible to concede and I

:37:51.:37:54.

knows of the honourable member is benches want us to leave without a

:37:55.:37:59.

deal, but what is the deal that is worse than no Deal? There isn't a

:38:00.:38:04.

deal that is worse than no deal. She said it very clearly. Falling out on

:38:05.:38:10.

WTO rules, with all the tariffs, with the obstructions to trade, is

:38:11.:38:17.

that worse than, sorry better, than some other deal they can conceive

:38:18.:38:22.

of? What is this weird deal they are talking about? There isn't one. This

:38:23.:38:26.

hounds needs to have the same whether there is a deal or not a

:38:27.:38:32.

deal. House. The Government has given clarity as to what happens if

:38:33.:38:36.

and I have been to the are preparing for this eventuality, but what if

:38:37.:38:43.

there isn't a deal that between the UK and our European partners cosmic

:38:44.:38:47.

that would be the very worse still, I think, and I think in terms of

:38:48.:38:52.

Parliamentary scrutiny, something the Secretary of State has spent his

:38:53.:38:57.

political career espousing and promoting, used to before his

:38:58.:39:02.

current position, in terms of Parliamentary sovereignty, could we

:39:03.:39:05.

really leave the EU without a deal, without this parliament having a

:39:06.:39:09.

say? Of course we couldn't. Why doesn't the Government admit this

:39:10.:39:13.

includes new phase of the Bill? Aye easily minute limit on the back

:39:14.:39:18.

bench will now apply. I want to support the Government in carrying

:39:19.:39:22.

out an official and effective Brexit. Listening to some of the

:39:23.:39:25.

contributions this afternoon, I do think I am living in Wonderland. The

:39:26.:39:29.

first point and I want to focus solely on the second amendment and

:39:30.:39:35.

Queloz four. The first thing to understand is that as matters stand

:39:36.:39:41.

at the moment, there is to be not resolutions from this house but

:39:42.:39:44.

primary legislation to complete the process. There is going to be a need

:39:45.:39:49.

for primary legislation, even I suggest to the House, if we have no

:39:50.:39:53.

deal at all. I don't know when the Government wants to deal with that,

:39:54.:39:57.

it could conceivably try and do it during the course of the great

:39:58.:40:00.

repeal bill but it hasn't suggested that the great repeal Bill, and

:40:01.:40:07.

intended Bill, is all about. In those circumstances, it seems to me

:40:08.:40:11.

at the end of the process, if there is no deal, there is going to have

:40:12.:40:14.

to be primary legislation by this house of this hasn't already been

:40:15.:40:20.

done. Fire from the Lloyds trying to lead to great litigation, the

:40:21.:40:24.

amendment, if the Government bothers to read Lord Hope's speech, was of

:40:25.:40:28.

the view that by tabling this amendment to providing for a

:40:29.:40:32.

resolution mechanism at the end, litigation could be avoided. My

:40:33.:40:37.

right honourable friend is to think that there is some way of getting

:40:38.:40:41.

round litigation, I can promise them, they don't follow proper

:40:42.:40:46.

constitutional process, there will be litigation and that litigation

:40:47.:40:50.

will hold matters up. I am not go so concerned about these amendments,

:40:51.:40:53.

the second Amendment, I am concerned about getting an assurance that at

:40:54.:40:58.

the end of the process that there is no deal, which will be a very

:40:59.:41:02.

significant moment in this country's history, Parliament has an

:41:03.:41:05.

opportunity to debate and vote on that. - that being an obstruction to

:41:06.:41:10.

the process, I would expect it to be part of the normal constitutional

:41:11.:41:14.

process and the Government to be seeking the endorsement of the House

:41:15.:41:18.

for that very significant act. I worry that my right honourable

:41:19.:41:20.

friend who I think personally may well agree with me, has been

:41:21.:41:24.

prevented from seeing that in the dispatch box. I am not prepared to

:41:25.:41:31.

follow processes which appear to need to be frankly deranged. There

:41:32.:41:37.

is a clear way of doing things, and if we follow them up with the right

:41:38.:41:42.

decisions at each point, and if we don't, we're going to mire

:41:43.:41:45.

ourselves... Very reluctantly, because I want to support the

:41:46.:41:50.

Government, if we persist with this, I am going to have to say on the

:41:51.:41:54.

second Amendment I cannot support the Government this evening. I am

:41:55.:41:57.

very sorry about that. I would like to be able to do so because the

:41:58.:42:01.

critique raised of the Lords amendment has some flaws, but

:42:02.:42:04.

somebody has got to put down a marker that we have to follow a

:42:05.:42:07.

proper process in the way in which we carry it on the Mac. I commend

:42:08.:42:16.

him on his speech, notwithstanding my support for the Lords amendment

:42:17.:42:20.

about EU nationals. I would urge honourable member is opposite to

:42:21.:42:24.

think very carefully about what they are being asked to do by ministers.

:42:25.:42:30.

In the bill, the Lords have inserted this amendment to give Parliament

:42:31.:42:33.

the meaningful vote and ministers are asking them to avenge that out

:42:34.:42:41.

of the Bill, to delete it. So the bill as it stands provides that

:42:42.:42:44.

Parliamentary scrutiny and authority and I think they should ask

:42:45.:42:49.

themselves, do they really want to actively go through the lobbies and

:42:50.:42:54.

delete that from the text as the bill currently stands? Ministers

:42:55.:43:00.

opposite has asked honourable member is to do a number of things. They

:43:01.:43:05.

have said, don't tie the hands of the Prime Minister. Whatever you do,

:43:06.:43:10.

it gave her unfettered power to negotiate in whatever way she likes.

:43:11.:43:14.

I would save only to those ministers urge honourable members but we

:43:15.:43:19.

shouldn't be doing is putting power entirely in the hands of one person

:43:20.:43:25.

in the Prime Minister without any insurance policy whatsoever, because

:43:26.:43:28.

with the greatest respect to ministers, prime ministers decide

:43:29.:43:33.

who are on her front bench and Parliamentary democracy is the

:43:34.:43:37.

insurance policy that we need throughout this process, something

:43:38.:43:42.

we shouldn't be frightened of, we shouldn't be shy and that, we should

:43:43.:43:44.

welcome it, it is a strengthened part of the process. They say take

:43:45.:43:51.

back control, Mr Speaker, and yet at the same time they are asking us to

:43:52.:43:56.

muzzle Parliament for the next two year period to say, well, even if we

:43:57.:44:01.

have no deal, whatever happens, Parliament may not have a say on

:44:02.:44:05.

that. We could find ourselves in a circumstance where the European

:44:06.:44:09.

Union offer a really good deal, but the Prime Minister, on her own,

:44:10.:44:15.

singularly, or his home, depend that is in years' time, could see

:44:16.:44:18.

absolutely no deal. And we in this Parliament have no choice but to

:44:19.:44:25.

accept it, no say. The ministers say they accept our verbal assurances.

:44:26.:44:29.

Ministers are here today and can be gone tomorrow. Might I even

:44:30.:44:35.

speculate, Mr Speaker, that we could even have a different by Minister,

:44:36.:44:38.

who goes by the time we get to spring 2009, the Foreign Secretary

:44:39.:44:44.

nonetheless, it is possible he could be by Minister one day. He said on

:44:45.:44:49.

the weekend, it would be perfectly OK if we weren't able to get an

:44:50.:44:54.

agreement. It would be perfectly OK if we weren't able to get an

:44:55.:44:58.

agreement. He could be Prime Minister. The honourable members

:44:59.:45:02.

don't know opposite and would be the situation we would have to face, no

:45:03.:45:06.

vote, no right for Parliament, verbal assurances are not

:45:07.:45:13.

sufficient. I am going to be brief under your instructions. I rise to

:45:14.:45:19.

deal with specifically the first Amendment. I thought the second

:45:20.:45:22.

Amendment was well dealt with by my right honourable friend, member of

:45:23.:45:28.

the Dorset side, and also for Forest of Dean. We have heard a lot in this

:45:29.:45:31.

debate and we have heard a lot in the other place of the emotional end

:45:32.:45:37.

of what it was to give EU citizens some kind of reassurance. I have

:45:38.:45:41.

been on record saying I would like to have done that by this particular

:45:42.:45:47.

point. Can I remind people that we also have UK to citizens and I for

:45:48.:45:54.

one Soviet leader of the Liberal Democrats going on about his own

:45:55.:45:57.

family, but I have a sister who has lived and worked in Italy all her

:45:58.:46:01.

life and she remains there and has retired there. I don't think it is

:46:02.:46:06.

on this place to dismiss their concerns and worries quite so

:46:07.:46:10.

lightly as dismissed in the other place and have been dismissed here

:46:11.:46:15.

today. I heard the reason why we shouldn't, from the other side

:46:16.:46:18.

today, be so concerned about them is because many of them are older and

:46:19.:46:21.

therefore pensioners and less important. That is wrong. Therefore,

:46:22.:46:27.

I encourage the Government to stick to their plans to try and deal with

:46:28.:46:31.

this together. The thing about this amendment, it's not actually what

:46:32.:46:35.

all the regional -- emotional argument is for. People who want to

:46:36.:46:39.

guarantee these rights, this is not the amendment. This amendment does

:46:40.:46:45.

the opposite. For two reasons, first, actually it doesn't reassure

:46:46.:46:51.

EU nationals over here. I have had conversations with various EU

:46:52.:46:53.

nationals who don't feel the slightest bit reassured by the idea

:46:54.:46:56.

you are going to call the Government back in three months' time at the

:46:57.:46:59.

triggered Article 52 ask them what they planned to do. That is no

:47:00.:47:05.

reassurance. -- Article 50. You are not voting to reassure them. The

:47:06.:47:09.

second point is that it damages the Government's position in the

:47:10.:47:13.

negotiation. There has been no agreement about what to do with UK

:47:14.:47:20.

citizens. Now the Government on the three month mark, the EU commission

:47:21.:47:23.

knows full well, they would be dragged back to the House, no

:47:24.:47:27.

dramatic claim publicly what their plans are, regardless of what those

:47:28.:47:31.

discussions and negotiations are. I can think of nothing worse than to

:47:32.:47:35.

bind their hands in the worst way and make sure that UK nationals do

:47:36.:47:40.

not get reciprocal arrangements. My point here is that whatever the

:47:41.:47:45.

realities of what people want, both amendment, neither of them, satisfy

:47:46.:47:50.

the requirement to protect either EU nationals or to give this Parliament

:47:51.:47:54.

a vote that is made up without damaging the prospects of the

:47:55.:47:56.

Government's negotiations. I would urge the house not to vote for

:47:57.:48:02.

these. I remind those in the other place to talk endlessly about

:48:03.:48:05.

parliamentary sovereignty for 25 years, I have sat in this place, and

:48:06.:48:10.

have had all the arguments about EU dismissed on the bases we were not

:48:11.:48:13.

allowed to amend a single European treaty. Thank you. I wish to speak

:48:14.:48:23.

particularly to amendment number two, very similar to the new clauses

:48:24.:48:29.

99 and 110, which we debated a month ago. Honourable member 's opposite

:48:30.:48:37.

have complained about the drafting by Lloyds panic. I feel that when

:48:38.:48:41.

ministers meet back complaints, it can be disingenuous because they had

:48:42.:48:45.

the opportunity to amend the amendment. If they really felt that

:48:46.:48:51.

the other place shouldn't be involved, we could have changed the

:48:52.:48:56.

drafting to say not both Houses of Parliament but the houses of

:48:57.:49:00.

comments only. They could have taken a subsection for Mac, which provides

:49:01.:49:04.

for what we do if there isn't an agreement with the EU. We haven't

:49:05.:49:12.

done that and therefore making the bar more difficult, I suspect, for

:49:13.:49:15.

their colleagues sitting behind them. Either it is a problem that

:49:16.:49:22.

the house of Lloyds has a veto because they are unelected chamber

:49:23.:49:26.

or it is not a problem. It seems the Prime Minister made a promise that

:49:27.:49:31.

the vote would come to both houses. She doesn't seem to think that is a

:49:32.:49:35.

problem, I don't know why this is being put up as a problem now. The

:49:36.:49:42.

honourable member for Dorset west took us on a long perambulation

:49:43.:49:46.

about what might or might not happen. That was completely

:49:47.:49:50.

unnecessary. If we were to put this on the face of the bill, we would be

:49:51.:49:55.

making this part of the constitutional arrangements, which

:49:56.:50:00.

under article 50, has to be respected by the EU counterparties

:50:01.:50:07.

in the negotiations. She makes a very good point, because it seems to

:50:08.:50:11.

me in the last debate we had we discuss the possibility of being up

:50:12.:50:16.

against the wire. It seems to me on reflection if our own constitutional

:50:17.:50:20.

processes are not finished, then in those circumstances we couldn't

:50:21.:50:23.

simply fall off the edge of the cliff until we've done so. I believe

:50:24.:50:28.

that a DVD of the lawyers in the European Commission as well.

:50:29.:50:34.

I am grateful for that intervention and my point was it is obviously

:50:35.:50:44.

reasonable for us in this house to have a vote, not just because we all

:50:45.:50:51.

believe in democracy or just because the campaigners for leaving argued

:50:52.:50:55.

on the basis of parliamentary sovereignty, but also because the EU

:50:56.:51:00.

parliament will have a vote. How can ministers stand at the dispatch box

:51:01.:51:04.

and say it is all right to have constitutional arrangements which

:51:05.:51:09.

give MVP is a vote and do not give us a vote? There is one final thing

:51:10.:51:14.

I want to see about leaving without an agreement. The honourable member

:51:15.:51:19.

for Broxtowe set out what the problems are. I think they could be

:51:20.:51:23.

even worse and I think it would be even worse than leaving on WTO

:51:24.:51:30.

terms. For us to have an agreement with the WTO requires ever the

:51:31.:51:35.

member of the WTO to agree we should have that. After everything that has

:51:36.:51:39.

happened does the Minister really think the president of Russia is

:51:40.:51:45.

going to do is that favour? It is not compulsory to speak for

:51:46.:51:49.

the three full minutes and there is a prize for anyone who can do it in

:51:50.:51:53.

one minute. Until the member for Gordon spoke I

:51:54.:51:58.

was afraid I was only one who was having a flashback to the endless

:51:59.:52:03.

nuclear arms control negotiations of the 1980s and there are indeed a

:52:04.:52:06.

couple of parallels to which I will briefly alluded. The first is on

:52:07.:52:11.

Amendment one, the question we are asking is should we make it one side

:52:12.:52:17.

the gesture regardless of the fact it would leave our own citizens

:52:18.:52:22.

exposed? We made it clear from the outset we would agree to guarantee

:52:23.:52:26.

the rights of EU citizens here if other countries would do the same

:52:27.:52:30.

for other citizens in other countries. Why is it that suggestion

:52:31.:52:37.

has not been seized with both hands? The answer one has to say is that

:52:38.:52:44.

indicates to us there are some problems with the way in which the

:52:45.:52:47.

EU intends to go about the process of negotiations because the way

:52:48.:52:55.

forwards would have been for them to say straightaway, yes, you are

:52:56.:52:59.

making this offer, we accept that, no problem. The second point on the

:53:00.:53:04.

second Amendment is the more important one. We have repeatedly

:53:05.:53:08.

heard it said the opposition front bench and elsewhere in the chamber

:53:09.:53:13.

no deal is the worst possible outcome for Britain. Put another

:53:14.:53:20.

way, that is like saying any deal is better than no deal and I would just

:53:21.:53:27.

like to draw a parallel to those arms negotiations in the 1980s

:53:28.:53:31.

because the most successful negotiations were the ones that led

:53:32.:53:36.

to the treaty in 1987 when we got rid of all the cruise missiles on

:53:37.:53:43.

our side and the Russians got rid of their missiles. How that happens was

:53:44.:53:51.

this, we carried out our threat in the negotiations, the other side

:53:52.:53:54.

walked away from the negotiating table when they saw what we meant

:53:55.:53:58.

that they came back and they gave us a better deal. So what we have to

:53:59.:54:03.

remember is this, no deal may lead to a better deal one or two years

:54:04.:54:09.

down the road. If you are determined to take any deal rather than no deal

:54:10.:54:14.

you will end up with a much worse deal than you might otherwise have.

:54:15.:54:21.

I shall vote against all the amendments on the simple bases this

:54:22.:54:26.

bill has one purpose only, that is to give legal effect to the decision

:54:27.:54:31.

of the people on the 23rd of June. Any amendments beyond that are

:54:32.:54:35.

inappropriate for that bill. However, I would like to say to the

:54:36.:54:39.

Secretary of State I look to him to give the firm assurances his first

:54:40.:54:46.

priority will be the rights of EU citizens and he acknowledges it will

:54:47.:54:51.

require a bespoke right to remain to accommodate such problems like

:54:52.:54:55.

health insurance and we will do that as our opening gesture as we open

:54:56.:55:01.

negotiations to set the right tone. Two speeches of two minute speech.

:55:02.:55:08.

I will vote against the amendment and want to address the second one.

:55:09.:55:15.

As others said it is quite wrong for the noble lords to abrogate for the

:55:16.:55:19.

other place a right of unelected peers to veto Brexit at the 11th

:55:20.:55:24.

hour but more than that I think it would be entirely counter-productive

:55:25.:55:29.

as a matter of diplomatic practice. With Jean-Claude Jahnke are talking

:55:30.:55:33.

about the possibility of the UK rejoining the EU, to start

:55:34.:55:38.

negotiations are signalling a poor deal might lead us to the best

:55:39.:55:42.

decision and that would be the surest way to elicit the worst

:55:43.:55:49.

terms. I want to say I understand the legitimate concerns on all sides

:55:50.:55:52.

of the house at this very delicate moment. The truth is, we cannot

:55:53.:56:01.

legislate away legitimate concerns we have whether you voted leave

:56:02.:56:05.

remain and we cannot legislate for every permutation of these

:56:06.:56:09.

negotiations and we have to trust the Government, supported the

:56:10.:56:14.

Government, yes, scrutinise it but do not weaken it, for heaven's sake,

:56:15.:56:20.

at the outset of these negotiations. Mr Speaker, we have debated the one

:56:21.:56:25.

clause bill for six weeks and I want to draw approvingly on the view from

:56:26.:56:33.

the other place of the noble lord who headed up the remain campaign,

:56:34.:56:38.

Lord act-mac Rose, who made it clear in his view the Government should be

:56:39.:56:43.

given the flexibility it needs and deserves to get the best deal for

:56:44.:56:48.

the country and it is incumbent on all politicians of all sides to

:56:49.:56:51.

rally behind the Government to get the best deal for the whole country.

:56:52.:56:55.

I commend the noble lord and will vote against the amendments tonight.

:56:56.:57:00.

The secretary of state would like one minute wind up. Caroline Lucas.

:57:01.:57:10.

We live in a very strange times. The campaign to leave the EU was based

:57:11.:57:15.

on great extent on the idea of restoring sovereignty to Parliament

:57:16.:57:19.

and the White Paper reassert the sovereignty of Parliament is a

:57:20.:57:22.

fundamental principle of the UK constitution yet ministers seems set

:57:23.:57:26.

on opposing any attempt to guarantee a meaningful role for Parliament in

:57:27.:57:31.

the process of EU withdrawal. We have asked instead to write a blank

:57:32.:57:35.

cheque and give ministers power to withdraw the country from the EU on

:57:36.:57:39.

whatever terms they liked or worse, no terms at all. Ministers seem to

:57:40.:57:45.

regard the colleagues as little better than lemmings, faced with the

:57:46.:57:48.

prospect of falling off a cliff edge we are apparently meant to suspend

:57:49.:57:52.

all judgment and blindly follow wherever they lead. Mr Speaker, to

:57:53.:57:57.

allow ministers to proceed in this way would be an extraordinary and

:57:58.:58:03.

unforgivable abdication of parliamentary responsibility. The

:58:04.:58:06.

manner and terms on which we withdraw from the EU will have

:58:07.:58:09.

implications for the rights and interests of every citizen and

:58:10.:58:14.

business for many years to come and Parliament must take responsibility

:58:15.:58:18.

for those decisions. The final deal on trade with the EU will almost

:58:19.:58:22.

certainly need to be ratified at both national and federal level of

:58:23.:58:28.

each EU member state. Number two amendment simply give the UK

:58:29.:58:31.

Parliament at the same power. The ministers are they want Parliament

:58:32.:58:36.

to be single most underpowered of all European Parliament during the

:58:37.:58:41.

process? Finally, I appeal to my colleagues today to defy the whipped

:58:42.:58:44.

up anger of the anti-European press, stand up to the ridiculous notion

:58:45.:58:49.

that any and every attempt to get Parliament a role in the Brexit

:58:50.:58:54.

process is some hope a betrayal of the people. It is no such thing. It

:58:55.:59:00.

is simply the exercise of the judgment we were elected bring to

:59:01.:59:06.

this house, we were not elected to be a lemmings. David Davis.

:59:07.:59:15.

What the Leader of the House I will start by thanking members for the

:59:16.:59:20.

valuable contributions. We have had some formidable speeches. It the

:59:21.:59:28.

most important and more -- some of the more important issues I want to

:59:29.:59:33.

quickly deal with. Several members spoke passionately of the rights of

:59:34.:59:38.

the three million and I agree. I am equally passionate about the four

:59:39.:59:41.

million and do not agree with the chairman of the Brexit committee or

:59:42.:59:46.

indeed the member for Gordon when he says we are using these people as

:59:47.:59:50.

bargaining chips. We are not. We are stopping any of them being

:59:51.:59:54.

bargaining chips and getting an outcome that will reflect well on

:59:55.:00:00.

this house and the EU. With respect to amendment to, I think the member

:00:01.:00:04.

for West Dorset had a brilliant exposition of the Alice in

:00:05.:00:10.

Wonderland consequences of that amendment and the member for Forest

:00:11.:00:17.

Dean was also right in this. The simple truth we in this house passed

:00:18.:00:24.

this Bill amended last time by a 372 majority and they hope we sent it

:00:25.:00:29.

back by similar majority and the House of Lords respect that

:00:30.:00:34.

rejection of the amendments. I must now bring to a conclusion

:00:35.:00:39.

proceedings on consideration of Lords' amendments. The question is

:00:40.:00:45.

this house disagrees with the Lords in their amendment number one. As

:00:46.:00:49.

many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

:00:50.:00:56.

Division! Clear the lobby. The question is this house disagrees

:00:57.:03:17.

with the Lords in their amendment number one. As many as are of the

:03:18.:03:19.

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". . Tellers for the ayes HE

:03:20.:03:28.

READS Order! Auditor! The ayes TV rights,

:03:29.:14:51.

335, the nos to the left, 287. -- to the right. The ayes tonight, 335,

:14:52.:15:04.

the nos to the left, 287. The "aye" habit, the ayes habit. I must now

:15:05.:15:10.

put the question on the motion to disagree with Lords amendment number

:15:11.:15:16.

two. The minister to move formally. Thank you. The question is that this

:15:17.:15:21.

House disagrees with Lords in their amendment number two. As many as are

:15:22.:15:29.

of that opinion it's a "aye". On the contrary, no. Division, clear the

:15:30.:15:34.

lobby. Order. The question is that this

:15:35.:18:38.

House disagrees with the Lords in their amendment number two. As many

:18:39.:18:42.

as are of that opinion it's the "aye". On the contrary, no. Heather

:18:43.:18:52.

Wheeler and Jackie Dail prize, for the ayes, Jeff Smith for the nos.

:18:53.:28:53.

Order! The ayes to the right 331, the noes to the left 286.

:28:54.:29:21.

The ayes to the right 331, the noes to be left 286. The ayes have it.

:29:22.:29:30.

The ayes have it. Unlock! Order! Ministered to move a committee be

:29:31.:29:37.

appointed to draw up reasons. I beg to move the committee be appointed

:29:38.:29:41.

to draw up reasons to be assigned to the Lords were disagreeing to the

:29:42.:29:53.

amendments one and two. That James Berry Paul Field, Stephen Geffen,

:29:54.:29:58.

David Jones, Jessica Morton and Jeremy Quin be members of the

:29:59.:30:03.

committee. David Jones be the chair of the committee. Three B the

:30:04.:30:10.

quarter of the committee and the committee do withdraw immediately.

:30:11.:30:18.

The question is that a committee be appointed to draw up reasons to be

:30:19.:30:24.

assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to the amendments one

:30:25.:30:31.

and two to the European union Notification Of Withdrawal Belle.

:30:32.:30:35.

HE READS NAMES. David Jones be the chair of the

:30:36.:30:55.

committee. Three Billy Corgan of the committee. The committee do withdraw

:30:56.:31:04.

the immediately. The ayes have it. The ayes of it. Order. We now come

:31:05.:31:17.

to the continuation of the budget debate. Ways and Means adjourned a

:31:18.:31:26.

debate on question. Thank you. To open, I call the

:31:27.:31:38.

secretary of state, when his whip us past, the Secretary of State for

:31:39.:31:43.

Foreign Commonwealth Affairs, Secretary Boris Johnson. Thank you,

:31:44.:31:48.

Mr Speaker. I feel it is entirely right that at this pivotal and

:31:49.:31:57.

exciting moment in this country's... Just before the right honourable

:31:58.:32:01.

gentlemen develops his speech, just gently say to those members quite

:32:02.:32:08.

unaccountably are leaving the chamber before the oratorical

:32:09.:32:14.

fireworks to be volunteered by the secretary of state it would be

:32:15.:32:17.

appreciated if they could do so quickly and quietly so we can

:32:18.:32:20.

proceed with the debates and the right honourable gentlemen can enjoy

:32:21.:32:26.

the certainly quiet and possibly even if he is lucky, respectful

:32:27.:32:32.

audience that he seeks. Foreign Secretary. As I was saying before

:32:33.:32:36.

your kind advice, it is entirely right at this pivotal and exciting

:32:37.:32:42.

moment in our economic relations, international relations, not just

:32:43.:32:46.

with the EU but also with the 93% of the world out with the EU, shortly

:32:47.:32:55.

to be 94%, I should be the first Foreign Secretary and more than ten

:32:56.:32:59.

years to be opening a budget debate. I do so with pride is because this

:33:00.:33:03.

is a budget that will sustain the momentum of what is already one of

:33:04.:33:07.

the fastest-growing economies in the West with unemployment at the lowest

:33:08.:33:13.

for 11 years of the stock market 1000 points higher than it was on

:33:14.:33:20.

June 23, to pick a date entirely at random. More people in work in this

:33:21.:33:30.

country... I will give weight many times but let me get to the end of

:33:31.:33:35.

my second sentence. More people and work than ever before. This is a

:33:36.:33:41.

budget that continues and enables the biggest programme of

:33:42.:33:43.

infrastructure investment this country has seen since Victorian

:33:44.:33:50.

times. It offers other young people in the funding and technical

:33:51.:33:54.

qualifications to enable them to realise their full potential. And as

:33:55.:34:06.

our country prepares for re-entry, to re-enter the global economy and

:34:07.:34:09.

forge new relationships around the world, this budget... I will give

:34:10.:34:17.

way. On the point of forging new relationships, can the Foreign

:34:18.:34:19.

Secretary explain how he will do that when the budget is going to be

:34:20.:34:27.

cuts -- sodden eyes budget is going to be cut substantially? As the --

:34:28.:34:35.

the FOC budget is going to be cut. We run a world-class network, the

:34:36.:34:40.

most developed diplomatic network in the world on two thirds of the

:34:41.:34:45.

budget the French spend and we will continue to exercise the greatest

:34:46.:34:52.

prudence in managing our budget. I am fortified in the support I have

:34:53.:34:55.

an nap from the current Chancellor of the Exchequer who was my

:34:56.:35:02.

predecessor. It is thanks to his was dumb the Chancellor's was them, in

:35:03.:35:07.

his budget, -- the Chancellor's which thou Leave wisdom that young

:35:08.:35:14.

people will be able to compete with confidence. This is a budget for

:35:15.:35:19.

global Britain. It is this Government's argument that Britain

:35:20.:35:26.

is not only more outward facing by history and by instinct than any

:35:27.:35:30.

comparable economy, it is our argument that global character of

:35:31.:35:36.

Britain is profoundly in the interests of the British people

:35:37.:35:43.

because they truly global Britain is a prosperous Britain. It is

:35:44.:35:47.

Britain's engagement with the world. That means this country plays an

:35:48.:35:52.

extraordinary and indispensable role in the security, stability and

:35:53.:35:56.

prosperity of the world. I will happily give way on that point.

:35:57.:36:03.

Thank you. Specifically on the issue of global Britain and a renewed

:36:04.:36:09.

trading relationship, would he not acknowledge that one of the ultimate

:36:10.:36:14.

ways in which we can project the soft power of Britain and the

:36:15.:36:19.

prestige of Britain and around the globe is to recommission a new Royal

:36:20.:36:25.

yacht for Her Majesty the Queen as a floating trade mission to be used by

:36:26.:36:30.

industry around the globe in the interest of our nation? Can I say,

:36:31.:36:34.

Mr Speaker, how much I admire my honourable friend for his campaign

:36:35.:36:41.

he is running to create such a vessel and it is my view that it

:36:42.:36:48.

would indeed add greatly to the soft power of this country, soft power

:36:49.:36:58.

which is already... The new Britannia should not be a call on

:36:59.:37:04.

the taxpayer, if it can be done privately, I am sure it would

:37:05.:37:08.

attract overwhelming, overwhelming support. And I believe that

:37:09.:37:21.

measures... Measures such as a new Royal yacht... Order! Auditor! Why

:37:22.:37:30.

are people making such a noise when the Foreign Secretary is seen things

:37:31.:37:34.

that might be important? Order! I would like to hear him. Foreign

:37:35.:37:42.

Secretary. I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is one of a

:37:43.:37:48.

number of measures I am assured that this Government will be able to

:37:49.:37:52.

consider. In the meantime, we have before if a budget that is helping

:37:53.:37:57.

to create the conditions in which this economy can continue to

:37:58.:38:04.

flourish. The first of the conditions, if the members opposite

:38:05.:38:07.

will allow me, are just the couple more sentences. The first of the

:38:08.:38:11.

conditions that are essential for the prosperity of global Britain is

:38:12.:38:19.

security. And unlike the party opposite, whose idea of a nuclear

:38:20.:38:24.

deterrent is to send our submarines to see without a nuclear missile

:38:25.:38:27.

about them so the whole nation is literally firing blanks, this

:38:28.:38:35.

Government sees the vital importance of maintaining our defences. This

:38:36.:38:44.

budget provides, once again, for the United Kingdom to set an example to

:38:45.:38:51.

our European partners by spending 2% of our GDP on our Armed Forces,

:38:52.:38:55.

thereby giving vital credibility to Nato which serves as the guarantor

:38:56.:39:02.

of the security of all our major trading partners on either side of

:39:03.:39:11.

the Atlantic. I might say that after decades... I will give way. I am

:39:12.:39:15.

very grateful to the Foreign Secretary forgiving way. On this

:39:16.:39:19.

point about our treaty relationships, on the weekend he

:39:20.:39:23.

said it would be perfectly OK for the UK to leave the European Union

:39:24.:39:29.

with no deal for -- to fall back on world organisation trade rules. Lord

:39:30.:39:35.

Heseltine said that is rubbish. Is it rubbished? I repeat what I said

:39:36.:39:39.

at the weekend. I am delighted he was paying attention. It is my

:39:40.:39:46.

view... I don't believe we will come to that, because I think in the next

:39:47.:39:51.

couple of years we will have no difficulty in doing, as I will come

:39:52.:39:55.

onto. And no difficulty in doing a deal that is in the interests of

:39:56.:40:02.

both sides. To get back to the defence of the planet, let me just

:40:03.:40:09.

remind the House, we are not all are committed to transatlantic... Just

:40:10.:40:16.

kill it. Transatlantic defences, we will also be spending ?3 billion in

:40:17.:40:27.

the Gulf region over the next ten years. In fact, we are restoring our

:40:28.:40:36.

rural for the first time since 1967, reopening a naval base in Bahrain.

:40:37.:40:41.

It makes perfect economic sense as well, as members opposite, if they

:40:42.:40:46.

cared about these things would understand, there is an absolute

:40:47.:40:51.

connection between them our security and our economic prosperity because

:40:52.:40:55.

that region, the Gulf, which you probably don't know, that region,

:40:56.:40:59.

the Gulf, is our largest and fastest-growing export market, apart

:41:00.:41:08.

from the EU and the US. And it doesn't end that. Because we are

:41:09.:41:13.

also committed, of course, to the security of the wider world, of Asia

:41:14.:41:19.

as well. Last year, as the House will know, the RAF Saint Typhoon

:41:20.:41:26.

fighters to Japan, South Korea and Malaysia, proving that Britain

:41:27.:41:30.

remains a handful of countries able to deploy air Power 7000 miles from

:41:31.:41:38.

our shores. And soon the Royal Navy will have two giant aircraft

:41:39.:41:43.

carriers, each of them longer than the Palace of Westminster, the

:41:44.:41:47.

biggest worship this country has ever possessed, HMS Queen Elizabeth,

:41:48.:41:51.

HMS Prince of Wales, I don't know whether the honourable member

:41:52.:41:54.

opposite of those as those as well, perhaps he does. Perhaps he would

:41:55.:42:01.

enlighten us! I am grateful. As much as I am enjoying this travelogue,

:42:02.:42:04.

can you get back to the business in hand, which is the budget? Couldn't

:42:05.:42:10.

Foreign Secretary confirm that we are going to see leather trade and

:42:11.:42:15.

less economic activity as a result of Brexit and we are going to borrow

:42:16.:42:21.

an extra ?100 billion as a direct consequence of Brexit? With great

:42:22.:42:26.

respect, we have talked about that sort of stuff for the last Euro

:42:27.:42:34.

symbol, proving them wrong. As for the deficit, which he mentions, we

:42:35.:42:40.

are bringing it under 3% of the first time since 2007, thanks to the

:42:41.:42:47.

prudent management of this country's finances and thanks to the

:42:48.:42:50.

Conservative led administration, which had to take over because of

:42:51.:42:56.

this catastrophic mess we had to clear up when his party was in

:42:57.:43:01.

office. I would be obliged if the honourable gentleman would resume

:43:02.:43:04.

his seat because I do not intend to give way to him again. It is thanks

:43:05.:43:12.

to the Chancellor's... Would you give way to new? I will give way.

:43:13.:43:19.

Thank you. Can I say how much I support the Government's position to

:43:20.:43:24.

the 2% minimum on defence spending, but would he not agree we're going

:43:25.:43:32.

to need every penny of that given that in particular the Chinese are

:43:33.:43:35.

seeking to colonise militarily a number of uninhabited atoms in the

:43:36.:43:40.

south China Sea and this is destabilising the region. My right

:43:41.:43:46.

honourable friend, do not agree we need to take action there and

:43:47.:43:50.

increase the defence budget, not stay when it is? I am delighted my

:43:51.:43:55.

right honourable friend make that point because he reminds me, it was

:43:56.:43:59.

the leader of the Labour Party, the current Leader of the Opposition,

:44:00.:44:02.

who said he did not think he discontinued a defence policy at

:44:03.:44:06.

all. He said he said he don't even need an army. I remind my honourable

:44:07.:44:18.

friend that 25% at the world's trade goes through those streets and it is

:44:19.:44:22.

more vital than ever we have a truly global commitment. Any moment or

:44:23.:44:30.

two. I wish to return... I wish to return to the budget. Order, order,

:44:31.:44:41.

order. Mr Gibbs. Foreign Secretary. I will give way in due course. I

:44:42.:44:45.

just wish to make this point, because I have been asked to return

:44:46.:44:50.

to the budget and I do with absolute pleasure, it is thanks to the

:44:51.:44:54.

careful stewardship of this country's finances that we are able

:44:55.:44:59.

to deploy not only hard power on the scale that I have mentioned, the

:45:00.:45:02.

second biggest military contributor to Nato, but we have soft power

:45:03.:45:11.

thanks to this Government's careful management finances on a scale

:45:12.:45:14.

unmatched by any other European partners. The BBC, the British

:45:15.:45:24.

Council, an absolute gem of this country, and unsung gem of this

:45:25.:45:33.

country, the give the United Kingdom a cultural penumbra across the world

:45:34.:45:39.

that is of massive economic value. Thank you. He has referred to the

:45:40.:45:44.

British Council. The British Council, as he knows, is no longer

:45:45.:45:48.

going to receive any funding from the British Government. At the same

:45:49.:45:54.

time, there are going to be continuing pressures on our

:45:55.:46:00.

diplomatic missions around the world as a result of the budget crisis

:46:01.:46:04.

that the Foreign Office has had to deal with. Can he Putallaz how many

:46:05.:46:14.

additional diplomats are going to be appointed to increase the budget of

:46:15.:46:19.

the FCO so he is able to deal with the consequences are Brexit? As the

:46:20.:46:24.

Foreign Affairs Committee called for any recent report. I am deeply

:46:25.:46:33.

disappointed I finally did give way to the gentleman opposite, because

:46:34.:46:35.

he showed the most staggering ignorance of the British Council and

:46:36.:46:43.

Foreign Office spending and... If I may say so, I will give you the

:46:44.:46:53.

answer, which is that in response to the challenging opportunities we

:46:54.:46:57.

have, we are increasing our representation in our European posts

:46:58.:47:03.

by 50 diplomats and 25 new trade experts have been recruited. Just to

:47:04.:47:09.

give him the answer. We are expanding a fantastic network. That

:47:10.:47:16.

is on top of the anonymous stockpile, hard power we have. We

:47:17.:47:24.

are, as the House will know, after the United States and the European

:47:25.:47:31.

Union, the UK is the third biggest contributor to development Finance

:47:32.:47:38.

and the world, and it is quite an extraordinary record which I think

:47:39.:47:43.

everybody in this House Conservative Government should be proud. Thank

:47:44.:47:51.

you. I am glad to hear him talking about soft power and Britain's

:47:52.:47:57.

global reputation. Will he agree he is the biggest risk to Britain's

:47:58.:48:03.

soft power's by putting his foot in mouth too many occasions. I miss the

:48:04.:48:17.

second half of that question. If the assertion was that British diplomacy

:48:18.:48:23.

is in any way falling short, I believe in the last few months we

:48:24.:48:28.

have seen an understanding of what this country wants and a growing

:48:29.:48:33.

warmth towards our objectives because they are sheared objectives

:48:34.:48:36.

with our European friends and partners. One of the things I say is

:48:37.:48:41.

most admired by our colleagues around the table and not just in

:48:42.:48:51.

Brussels but in the UN is that they realise this Government has an

:48:52.:48:55.

extraordinary record in giving development aid. As we sit here and

:48:56.:49:03.

I'm, Madam Deputy Speaker, my honourable friend the Secretary of

:49:04.:49:06.

State for International Development is matter, is helping the Pakistani

:49:07.:49:10.

Government to pick together a 6 million girls through school in the

:49:11.:49:15.

Punjab alone. I think everybody appreciates that is the best way of

:49:16.:49:20.

promoting economic growth, of curbing infant mortality and

:49:21.:49:23.

reducing the pressures of a growing population. We spend this aid

:49:24.:49:33.

budget, 0.7%, not because it is the just the right thing to do, though

:49:34.:49:38.

surely it is morally right thing to do, I am not embarrassed to say it

:49:39.:49:42.

is also the best way of promoting development of those economies and

:49:43.:49:48.

thereby of sparring the growth of our export markets, Madam Deputy

:49:49.:49:53.

Speaker. In that sense, global Britain... I didn't think they'd

:49:54.:50:01.

like that. The are not interested in any policy that is so busily of

:50:02.:50:06.

economic benefit to this country. That is one of the reasons why we

:50:07.:50:13.

are doing it. I speak as a defender and a believer in globalisation,

:50:14.:50:19.

because millions of people in our country, tens of millions, depend

:50:20.:50:23.

for their jobs and livelihoods on the benign force of global free

:50:24.:50:30.

trade. And that in turn requires the shipping lanes, clear rules and

:50:31.:50:36.

effective institutions. I've given way before. None of that can be

:50:37.:50:41.

taken for granted. I am sorry, I haven't. Go on.

:50:42.:50:46.

In terms of global free trade and the judgment of the international

:50:47.:50:52.

financial markets, with the acceptance June 20 of our economy

:50:53.:50:55.

has slipped from the fifth biggest the six biggest and the value have

:50:56.:51:03.

-- has been deflated, which is why we have devalued and therefore

:51:04.:51:10.

everybody's wages and assays are 15% down. That is a failure. -- is not a

:51:11.:51:17.

success. You think they would learn that there is no point in

:51:18.:51:21.

continually standing up and running our country down when what has

:51:22.:51:28.

happened is we are back up at number five, we have seen records

:51:29.:51:34.

investment in the UK and we continue to see the fundamentals of the

:51:35.:51:39.

British economy are strong and getting stronger. One of the reasons

:51:40.:51:49.

for that, as I say, is we play a very active role in protecting and

:51:50.:51:57.

insisting upon the rules -based international law and on that I give

:51:58.:52:00.

weight to my right honourable friend.

:52:01.:52:05.

Will he was talking about the importance of the development

:52:06.:52:08.

project and what it brings us, will he at least accept there is an issue

:52:09.:52:12.

about how that money gets invested in things like the British Council,

:52:13.:52:18.

that policy can only be applied to the developing world as we present

:52:19.:52:23.

global Britain it is rather more important he has the tools to

:52:24.:52:26.

present global left and across the whole world policy should not be

:52:27.:52:30.

constrained by the source of the expenditure.

:52:31.:52:35.

My honourable friend speaks with wisdom and authority on this and I

:52:36.:52:39.

know his committee has made some very useful recommendations about

:52:40.:52:44.

how to maximise our overseas spending and so to coordinate our

:52:45.:52:48.

spending that it helps to deliver not only our security but also our

:52:49.:52:53.

economic objectives, as I have just been saying to members, and I

:52:54.:53:00.

totally accept that point. In the pursuit of the system we want to

:53:01.:53:07.

see, our diplomats and intelligence officers are backed up by... They

:53:08.:53:16.

are striving every day to preserve the essentials of the rules -based

:53:17.:53:19.

system and thereby helping to protect jobs and the safety of our

:53:20.:53:25.

constituents here in the UK. I will conclude this thought by pointing

:53:26.:53:36.

out back in 1990, about 37% of our fellow human beings worldwide lived

:53:37.:53:41.

in absolute poverty. Today, that figure has fallen to less than 10%,

:53:42.:53:46.

which is all the more remarkable when you consider in the interim the

:53:47.:53:52.

world population has gone up by 1.8 billion people. That dramatic fall

:53:53.:53:58.

in property unparalleled in history, coincided with the biggest expansion

:53:59.:54:03.

of free trade and open markets the world has ever seen. It policy the

:54:04.:54:07.

site of the house believes implicitly. I think the right

:54:08.:54:14.

honourable gentlemen opposite will agree with me when I say the rules

:54:15.:54:20.

-based international border which we uphold and global Britain, is

:54:21.:54:26.

overwhelming benefit for the world as a whole. I will give way to the

:54:27.:54:30.

member opposite. Of course I agree with the Foreign

:54:31.:54:34.

Secretary, it is just a pity on some occasions he does not seem to

:54:35.:54:39.

project that when he travels abroad. That is another problem. Can I just

:54:40.:54:43.

say, a moment ago when my honourable friend for Ilford asked him some

:54:44.:54:48.

questions he dismissed them as ignorant. When the chair of the

:54:49.:54:52.

Foreign Affairs Committee asked exactly the same questions he said

:54:53.:54:55.

he agreed with his right honourable friend. He cannot be right in both

:54:56.:55:00.

cases. I must, with great trepidation I

:55:01.:55:07.

must correct... We travelled abroad together and I seem to remember...

:55:08.:55:16.

The reality is, alas, the gentleman opposite, he revealed the

:55:17.:55:25.

profoundest misunderstanding about the exact state of the finances of

:55:26.:55:28.

the British Council and I thought that was a regrettable, and worth

:55:29.:55:35.

correcting. Thanks to my right honourable friend the Chancellor, we

:55:36.:55:40.

are able to continue to support an active global Britain through this

:55:41.:55:43.

budget but there is of course much more to be done. Because once we

:55:44.:55:50.

leave the EU and the governments, we all, regain a power that this

:55:51.:55:55.

country has not been able to deploy for 44 years, and that is the

:55:56.:56:02.

ability to include free trade -- conclude free trade agreements. The

:56:03.:56:05.

first and most important of those deals with B with our friends and

:56:06.:56:11.

partners in the EU because as the Prime Minister revealed we are

:56:12.:56:13.

leaving the EU but we are not leaving Europe. To those who

:56:14.:56:18.

seriously doubt we can pull it off in the next two years let me just

:56:19.:56:24.

remind the essential point, this is profoundly in the interests of our

:56:25.:56:28.

friends and partners on the other side of the channel who have a

:56:29.:56:33.

massive net balance of trade with us. They are optimistic and

:56:34.:56:37.

determined, I sometimes wish we could have a little bit more of the

:56:38.:56:41.

same spirit from the party opposite. Perhaps from the gentleman opposite

:56:42.:56:46.

real Europe, perhaps he will now say he is abandoning his gloom and he

:56:47.:56:53.

will come up with something supportive of the British

:56:54.:56:54.

negotiating position. The other will seek to support the

:56:55.:56:58.

Foreign Secretary in getting one spot back to the question of the

:56:59.:57:03.

budget, he talks about trade is being increased in the future as a

:57:04.:57:08.

result of Brexit, can he therefore tell us if he disagrees with the

:57:09.:57:15.

Independent Tory created Office For Budget Responsibility, and there are

:57:16.:57:19.

a few trade will be reduced as a result of our leaving the EU?

:57:20.:57:25.

I must respectfully say to the member opposite I think he is being

:57:26.:57:31.

too pessimistic and I believe if you look at the UK trade with the rest

:57:32.:57:40.

of the EU over the last 20 years, regrettably, it has been declining

:57:41.:57:44.

as a proportion of our export and I would like to see increasing again.

:57:45.:57:48.

But I would also like to see my right honourable friend, I am

:57:49.:57:53.

delighted to say who was sitting next to me, doing those free-trade

:57:54.:57:59.

deals around the world. As the house will know, there is massive

:58:00.:58:04.

excitement and enthusiasm amongst our global partners to do just that.

:58:05.:58:10.

There is literally a queue of countries that want to do

:58:11.:58:13.

significant and substantial free-trade deals. I will happily

:58:14.:58:20.

give way. Will you agree with the foreign

:58:21.:58:24.

select committee who just yesterday said the possibility of no deal is

:58:25.:58:27.

real enough to justify planning for it. And not to plan would be a

:58:28.:58:32.

mistake and constitute a serious dereliction of duty by the

:58:33.:58:35.

administration. That issue of foreign subcommittee. No, it is not.

:58:36.:58:42.

It is the Foreign Secretary's select committee.

:58:43.:58:52.

If I made, I will remind the honourable lady of my previous, and

:58:53.:59:01.

it would urge members opposite to contain their pessimism because I

:59:02.:59:07.

think it is true, absolutely true, members opposite asked me to name

:59:08.:59:11.

the countries that wish to do free-trade deals and there are

:59:12.:59:17.

dozens but I will see, you have heard the United States of America

:59:18.:59:20.

and what they want to do and it would be hugely in the interests of

:59:21.:59:23.

every part of this country because it is the case at the moment,

:59:24.:59:32.

members mean not know this, but the United States not only still has an

:59:33.:59:35.

embargo on British beef, but on Scottish haggis as well. And I think

:59:36.:59:41.

it would be fine thing. I do not know whether members of the Scottish

:59:42.:59:45.

parties agree with that but there is no other way of doing a free-trade

:59:46.:59:53.

deal and liberating the haggis to travel across the Atlantic again

:59:54.:59:55.

unless be doing a free-trade deal the United States.

:59:56.:00:05.

I appreciate order. This point might be about haggis and

:00:06.:00:12.

the house must listen to it. I appreciate the Foreign Secretary's

:00:13.:00:16.

concern for foreign exports, does he still believes a pound spent in

:00:17.:00:21.

Croydon is far more value to a pound spent on Strathclyde? I certainly

:00:22.:00:26.

believe a free-trade deal with the United States and free-trade deals

:00:27.:00:31.

for this country would be of profound benefit to the whole of the

:00:32.:00:35.

United Kingdom. Since he is interrupted me, let me remind the

:00:36.:00:44.

member on those benches that today is Commonwealth Day. Which provides

:00:45.:00:48.

an opportunity for us to celebrate this remarkable institution which

:00:49.:00:54.

embraces one third of humanity and now includes some of the

:00:55.:00:58.

fastest-growing economies in the world. A free association of 52

:00:59.:01:03.

countries spread across every continent, dedicated to advancing

:01:04.:01:07.

values we share and I am proud to say Britain will host the

:01:08.:01:10.

Commonwealth heads of Government summit next year and though we may

:01:11.:01:18.

not be able to know sign free-trade agreements with our Commonwealth

:01:19.:01:24.

friends, we can see them and see them taking shape. Let me remind our

:01:25.:01:29.

friends from the Scottish Nationalist party, who seems so

:01:30.:01:37.

determined to turn themselves, wrench themselves apart from the UK,

:01:38.:01:42.

even though they have every decisive referendum on this matter, as

:01:43.:01:48.

members will recall, only a couple of years ago. Let me remind them,

:01:49.:01:54.

never mind haggis, the Scotch whiskey exports to India, a

:01:55.:02:02.

potentially huge market, the Indian first whiskey is colossal, currently

:02:03.:02:06.

running at only 4% of Scotch whiskey sales in India or the account for 4%

:02:07.:02:11.

of the Indian whiskey market. That is because currently without a

:02:12.:02:16.

free-trade deal the Indian Government currently imposes a 150%

:02:17.:02:21.

tariff on Scotch whiskey. Imagine a free-trade deal lifted the exports

:02:22.:02:28.

of Scotch to India by only a few percent. To say 10%. Dare to dream

:02:29.:02:34.

that Scotch whiskey, which I think everybody in this house would

:02:35.:02:38.

concede is the original and authentic whiskey, there to dream

:02:39.:02:50.

that Scotch whiskey was just 15% of the gigantic Indian first for

:02:51.:02:54.

whiskey. We would be talking of an increase in the profits for the

:02:55.:02:59.

Scotch whiskey industry for this country and above all for Scotland,

:03:00.:03:04.

every year, running at that time running into hundreds of millions of

:03:05.:03:08.

pounds. That means jobs and growth and investment for Scotland. It

:03:09.:03:13.

means prosperity that comes with having a truly global outlook but

:03:14.:03:17.

unfortunately members opposite seemed to lack. In that global...

:03:18.:03:25.

Whitby make progress. In that global marketplace, this budget will allow

:03:26.:03:30.

young Britons to compete with the best by investing in the talents and

:03:31.:03:33.

skills of the rising generation. More than 100 new free skills

:03:34.:03:39.

provided, 1000 more Ph.D. Places for science, technology, engineering and

:03:40.:03:44.

mathematics. Another ?270 million for biotechnology, robotics and

:03:45.:03:50.

electric vehicles. ?60 million for five G mobile technology. That is

:03:51.:03:58.

building on and fostering a global reputation for innovation that is

:03:59.:04:05.

now the third in the world. We are -- we are one place above America,

:04:06.:04:10.

seven places ahead of Germany, suggesting higher than France and 21

:04:11.:04:16.

places ahead of China. That is a measure of the extraordinary

:04:17.:04:22.

fecundity, intellectual fecundity of this country. Cambridge University

:04:23.:04:27.

alone has produced more Nobel laureates and every university in

:04:28.:04:33.

Russia and China are added together and multiplied by two. Where there

:04:34.:04:39.

breakthroughs take place and that's part of innovation takes place, we

:04:40.:04:44.

fostered it and encourage it and give business every possible

:04:45.:04:50.

incentive to turn those doomed ideas into world beating products. From

:04:51.:04:56.

next month -- those brilliant ideas. We will cut corporation tax to 19%

:04:57.:05:02.

next year, 17% by 2020, the lowest of any G20 economy. It is by

:05:03.:05:11.

creating the right business environment and investing in

:05:12.:05:15.

infrastructure, skills, housing and technology, as I say, that we are

:05:16.:05:21.

not only building a platform for sustainable growth, we are creating

:05:22.:05:27.

a launch pad for the most extraordinary exports. As I never

:05:28.:05:31.

tire of telling my friends, we export to you to China. We export

:05:32.:05:39.

data France. We export bicycles to Hollands. We export TV aerials to

:05:40.:05:45.

South Korea. Boomerang is to Australia. I think we have at least

:05:46.:05:49.

once in the past export of sand to Saudi Arabia and Nigel Farage to

:05:50.:05:53.

America, I am delighted to say. The only mark the entrepreneurial

:05:54.:06:11.

spirit, but let me tell you... Madam Deputy Speaker, let me tell you that

:06:12.:06:18.

on Friday... Order, order. The Foreign Secretary will give way when

:06:19.:06:21.

he is ready to give away, meanwhile, no shouting. I will conclude with

:06:22.:06:31.

these thoughts. I was asked last Friday in my own constituency in

:06:32.:06:36.

Oxbridge and I am proud to say I've visited a business that has, on a

:06:37.:06:46.

backstreet, it has cornered the market in manufacturing the fancy

:06:47.:06:50.

display cabinets that are used to sell delicacies such as Toblerone in

:06:51.:07:01.

every airport in Saudi Arabia. And we are expanding, thanks to the

:07:02.:07:06.

ingenuity and enterprise. If you go to a Saudi Arabian airport, and you

:07:07.:07:10.

buy a Toblerone, he would buy it over a counter made in Oxbridge.

:07:11.:07:17.

Given the ingenuity, I will not give way... I will not every way. I

:07:18.:07:22.

believe we have every reason to be confident in what we can achieve

:07:23.:07:28.

together as one United Kingdom. This is a nation that in the last 300

:07:29.:07:35.

years has become prosperous and successful, precisely because it

:07:36.:07:42.

adopted a uniquely global outlook. Active, engaged and trading with

:07:43.:07:46.

every corner of the planet. Not as for the benefit of the people of

:07:47.:07:49.

this country, but I do to savour the benefit of the entire world. And

:07:50.:07:53.

this is once again the course on which we are now embarked. This

:07:54.:07:58.

budget will help us to fulfil our entire potential for a truly global

:07:59.:08:10.

Britain. Wright thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me start by

:08:11.:08:13.

saying that like many other members of this house, it was my privilege

:08:14.:08:18.

was afternoon to attend this celebration for the Commonwealth at

:08:19.:08:22.

Westminster Abbey in her presence of the Majesty the Queen. It was a

:08:23.:08:27.

reminder in the context of tonight's to beat of the powerful ties and

:08:28.:08:32.

historic ties that enjoys all over the world. We only country that will

:08:33.:08:35.

face outwards another tenant on ourselves and like the Secretary of

:08:36.:08:40.

State on that next year's service we will have another member of the

:08:41.:08:44.

Commonwealth present as a democratic Gambia completes the process of

:08:45.:08:49.

readmission. I would like to thank the Secretary of State for opening

:08:50.:08:51.

this even's debate on Britain's place in the world. An issue of

:08:52.:08:58.

vital importance and yet one that hasn't exactly been centrestage in

:08:59.:09:01.

the last five years RAC debate on the budget. If someone had told us

:09:02.:09:07.

last summer, that going into Article 50 week it would be the Prime

:09:08.:09:11.

Minister and the Chancellor who would be at each other's throats, at

:09:12.:09:17.

worst to the media, engaged in some desperate blaming game, it would be

:09:18.:09:22.

the Secretary of State for foreign Commonwealth Office who will be sent

:09:23.:09:24.

into the television studios to act for the Government as the voice of

:09:25.:09:27.

calm and unity, no one would have believed that. But if that is going

:09:28.:09:33.

to be his new role, if he is going to be the new figure, or the new

:09:34.:09:41.

comedy and I see it, John Prescott, I congratulate him and wishing the

:09:42.:09:44.

best of luck and wish them the best of luck in the future. There would

:09:45.:09:46.

be some unkind souls who would look at the row between number ten and 11

:09:47.:09:52.

and think that it is exactly what the Secretary of State needed this

:09:53.:09:55.

weekend because in their cynical mindset had it not been for that

:09:56.:09:58.

row, much more attention would have been focused on Sunday's will

:09:59.:10:01.

heavyweight contest, the one that the public really wanted to see

:10:02.:10:05.

explode, the one between the two Tory blond heavyweights, Tarzana

:10:06.:10:12.

versus the zip glider, the dog killer versus... We were denied a

:10:13.:10:19.

true fight, Mr Speaker, what we were left with these immortal words from

:10:20.:10:24.

Lord Heseltine. When I listen to borrowers he has turned the article

:10:25.:10:27.

in the political committee into a science of using waffle, time and

:10:28.:10:32.

Dillane, anything to stop actually answering questions. Madam Deputy

:10:33.:10:38.

Speaker, in the rest of my speech I intend to ask some very

:10:39.:10:41.

straightforward and simple questions on the budget and Britain's place in

:10:42.:10:45.

the world and I hope these are ones which the Secretary of State will be

:10:46.:10:49.

able to answer without waffle, orderly, and with you more time than

:10:50.:10:55.

he feels is absolutely necessary. It is striking we are here to debate a

:10:56.:10:59.

budget that is almost nothing to say that Britain's place in the world,

:11:00.:11:02.

with even less to offer for it. I am sure we can all predict some of the

:11:03.:11:09.

rhetoric we have already heard from the honourable member tonight, about

:11:10.:11:14.

re-entering into the world market, a truly global Britain, and active

:11:15.:11:18.

global Britain and I predict that we will hear more about brand Britannia

:11:19.:11:21.

and dynamic, adult cutting-edge global powers and global influence,

:11:22.:11:34.

etc, about exploiting boomerangs, but the question is really best.

:11:35.:11:38.

What is the strategy for achieving that ambition? And how does the

:11:39.:11:42.

budget provide the resources to back it up? So far, we have seen no

:11:43.:11:47.

evidence of either. Madam Deputy Speaker, it isn't enough to simply

:11:48.:11:50.

want a relationship with Europe that has all the benefits and none of the

:11:51.:11:55.

costs and to be a leading global power at the same time, or to say,

:11:56.:11:59.

like Tinkerbell, that we have to do to make it happen is to believe that

:12:00.:12:03.

it is possible and, indeed, the honourable gentleman on the seems to

:12:04.:12:06.

be implying that if we don't believe, if we ask awkward

:12:07.:12:08.

questions, somehow these things would happen and the fairies will

:12:09.:12:13.

start falling from the skies. But it has to be said in this debate and no

:12:14.:12:20.

doubt it will be said again, the Government is meeting its

:12:21.:12:23.

commitments to spend with 2% of GDP on defence and 0.7% on development,

:12:24.:12:29.

but whilst these seem like the commitments, when you scratch the

:12:30.:12:32.

surface there are many unanswered questions about how funding is split

:12:33.:12:37.

between the F seal MoD and about how, where, why and what this money

:12:38.:12:42.

is actually spent on. It seems likely a large part of the Foreign

:12:43.:12:45.

Office budget over the next few years will come from funding streams

:12:46.:12:49.

which are nominally shared across departments, most of them with

:12:50.:12:55.

blandly unobjectionable names, the prosperity funds, and the idea of

:12:56.:13:01.

shared funding is a valid one in principle, but we need to know how

:13:02.:13:05.

these funds are going to be used by the Foreign Office. How much is

:13:06.:13:08.

going to be classed as aid spending's how much is defence? How

:13:09.:13:14.

much is going to be classed as both? We need to know why there is so

:13:15.:13:17.

little transparency on this issue and what kind of oversight there is

:13:18.:13:23.

to make sure these are funded responsibly. One might F they were

:13:24.:13:27.

of the suspicious frame of mind conclude the Government is being

:13:28.:13:32.

wilfully opaque on this matter, but the secretary of the state will do

:13:33.:13:37.

all he can to dispel such thoughtful debate and the reliance of the phone

:13:38.:13:43.

's office, from finding out how does budget settlement, is automatically

:13:44.:13:45.

much larger and much more damaging trend under this Government. Unlike

:13:46.:13:52.

defence or overseas aid, our diplomatic service lacks the

:13:53.:13:54.

financial security that politically and legally binding spending target.

:13:55.:14:00.

I am sorry to say that it shows. Of the three departments vision was

:14:01.:14:03.

most of responsibility for Britain's place in the world, the foreign and

:14:04.:14:09.

the Ministry of Defence, the FCO's budget accounts for just 3% of the

:14:10.:14:15.

-- combined total. It is every bit as essential as the other two. I

:14:16.:14:22.

ensure the honourable gentleman saw the Financial Times on Friday, which

:14:23.:14:31.

highlighted the real change between... It is no surprise and

:14:32.:14:35.

there is a great deal of fuss about this there has been a cut of 37.2%

:14:36.:14:42.

TDC LG, local Government budgets. What is the one department, Madam

:14:43.:14:46.

Deputy Speaker, that has the largest cut for the Department and

:14:47.:14:50.

Government? The Foreign Commonwealth Office, which has

:14:51.:14:56.

8-38.1% changes to its budget. The honourable gentleman may shake his

:14:57.:15:00.

head and if I am wrong, Tallis, I would be interested to see you take

:15:01.:15:06.

battle the Financial Times. For a department whose budget is already

:15:07.:15:10.

very small, it comes as no surprise these cuts have had serious

:15:11.:15:14.

consequences for our standing in the world and for our global reach and

:15:15.:15:18.

influence. There was a lot of expertise, we have seen the

:15:19.:15:22.

Government repeatedly caught by surprise that global significance.

:15:23.:15:27.

Whether the Arab Spring the crisis in Ukraine, or the attempted coup in

:15:28.:15:31.

Turkey, there has been hollowing out of expertise on these critical

:15:32.:15:37.

areas, not to mention the loss of skilled linguists. If the Secretary

:15:38.:15:40.

of State and tells what progress has been made in recovering Russian and

:15:41.:15:43.

Arab language disabilities, for example, I should be very grateful.

:15:44.:15:50.

She is making a very powerful case about the hollowing out of the S C L

:15:51.:15:56.

budget. On the question of linguists, has she seen the report

:15:57.:16:00.

of the foreign select committee, which we published last week about

:16:01.:16:09.

Russia and the lack of expertise there now is within the FCL a lot

:16:10.:16:13.

about looking at Russia and does she agree with me and with the foreign

:16:14.:16:16.

affairs select committee that the FCO needs more resources to confront

:16:17.:16:22.

and understand the problems caused by Russia and its behaviour towards

:16:23.:16:27.

its neighbours? It was for that reason after reading that report

:16:28.:16:30.

that I mentioned the Russian language capabilities. For my own

:16:31.:16:35.

view, the reports from the foreign affairs select committee are very

:16:36.:16:39.

thoughtful and informative and I recommend them to the Secretary of

:16:40.:16:43.

State, because there are a number of flags raised by this select

:16:44.:16:49.

committee, that you need to be considered very carefully, because

:16:50.:16:52.

it does seem to me the changes happening at the moment to our

:16:53.:16:58.

precious Foreign Office are the ones where we are losing capability and

:16:59.:17:01.

it would be very difficult to develop it again. Thank you. She was

:17:02.:17:12.

making a reasonably cogent case. LAUGHTER

:17:13.:17:16.

She is most welcome, Madam Deputy Speaker. Order, order. Honourable

:17:17.:17:20.

members must not object when a member is polite to someone on the

:17:21.:17:28.

other side. He is being honourable. In respect of the honourable lady,

:17:29.:17:35.

Madam Deputy Speaker. On a serious point, isn't it only fair to recall

:17:36.:17:40.

that under the previous labour Government, those of us who travel

:17:41.:17:43.

occasionally to Central and South America witnessed a shrinking of the

:17:44.:17:48.

footprint, a shrinking of that soft power as we closed many embassies in

:17:49.:17:53.

Central America and in South America. We downgraded scholarships

:17:54.:17:57.

and that is something major review urgently as we go through post

:17:58.:18:05.

Brexit. I am surprised to find myself agreeing with the honourable

:18:06.:18:08.

gentleman to the extent that I do. It is important that we stop and

:18:09.:18:14.

have a review. We need to look very carefully at these 38% cuts which

:18:15.:18:16.

are currently being implemented by his Government. At this crucial time

:18:17.:18:22.

for Britain. That is the pond haymaking in this budget debate and

:18:23.:18:26.

I do think that these are issues that need to be seriously addressed

:18:27.:18:30.

and questions and answers about haggis or not sufficient when it

:18:31.:18:35.

comes to dealing with cuts of 38% to the Foreign Commonwealth Office.

:18:36.:18:38.

It isn't just language skills that have suffered, consider BBC

:18:39.:18:44.

monitoring, and absolutely vital service which monitors and

:18:45.:18:47.

translates foreign news reports, serving as an indispensable source

:18:48.:18:49.

of intelligence for Government departments including the Foreign

:18:50.:18:53.

Office, by transferring the responsibility for its funding from

:18:54.:18:56.

the taxpayer to the BBC itself, the Government has left BBC monitoring

:18:57.:19:01.

up into cuts which last year saw an announcement of 96 job losses and

:19:02.:19:05.

the closure of 20% of its posts overseas, at a time like this, is

:19:06.:19:10.

this responsible behaviour? Cut such as these will continue to have

:19:11.:19:14.

effects as incalculable as the are far-reaching. It turns out that

:19:15.:19:19.

about a Government chooses to fund and not a fund can tell you a great

:19:20.:19:23.

deal more than just the short-term spending priorities of the

:19:24.:19:26.

Government of the holder. For the Foreign Office, those decisions can

:19:27.:19:29.

tell you that the most basic principles underlying the

:19:30.:19:30.

Government's foreign policy approach. Perhaps the best example

:19:31.:19:37.

of this, we need to look no further than the downgrading of human rights

:19:38.:19:42.

as a priority for the department. So that is now considered far less

:19:43.:19:44.

important than the so-called prosperity agenda. I hear from a

:19:45.:19:50.

position that people are saying that is entirely untrue, let me say that

:19:51.:19:56.

the permanent Secretary to the Foreign Commonwealth Office who

:19:57.:19:59.

has said precisely that. A decision that confirms was more or less a

:20:00.:20:04.

direct consequence of the cuts imposed by the party opposite. It

:20:05.:20:09.

wasn't so long ago the Tory Foreign Minister, William Hague, was able to

:20:10.:20:16.

say with a straight face that they would be no downgrading of human

:20:17.:20:19.

rights under this Government. He argued it was neither in our

:20:20.:20:23.

interests nor our nature to have what he called a foreign policy

:20:24.:20:27.

without a conscience. I couldn't agree more. He must know sure our

:20:28.:20:31.

disappointment to see the Thule Foreign Secretary and the Tory Prime

:20:32.:20:34.

Minister practically tripping over each other to cosy up to the likes

:20:35.:20:38.

of Donald Trump. We used to think there was some world leaders who

:20:39.:20:42.

would always unite the opinion of this House and members on both sides

:20:43.:20:47.

would never give up the courage to speak out against those who did not

:20:48.:20:50.

share our values. These days, the Government's values are obscure, to

:20:51.:20:59.

be polite. Beyond being in favour of trade. The question isn't just how

:21:00.:21:04.

much the Government is prepared to spend on a world-class diplomatic

:21:05.:21:08.

service, the service that at once, but important as that is, what is

:21:09.:21:12.

the Government prepared to do with the resources that it has?

:21:13.:21:17.

If you she is making her points but does she not agree the Government

:21:18.:21:23.

has made important strides in freedom of religion, holding a

:21:24.:21:28.

conference in a few months ago to promote this globally. As a member

:21:29.:21:34.

of the group for freedom of religion I appreciate that sort of action and

:21:35.:21:38.

it is very important and should not be downgraded.

:21:39.:21:45.

That is to be acknowledged but if you look at what is happening with

:21:46.:21:50.

the various missions and posts being stripped out so those whose job was

:21:51.:21:56.

to make with human rights activists and civil society within various

:21:57.:22:05.

countries, those posts... If the honourable gentleman wishes to

:22:06.:22:07.

intervene I have no problem with intervening but if he's not going to

:22:08.:22:14.

if you would be quiet and let me finish, I would appreciate it. I was

:22:15.:22:18.

good to talk about what in essence the purpose of foreign policy is.

:22:19.:22:24.

Ministers are fond of speaking of the opportunity is leaving the EU

:22:25.:22:27.

may provide modern foreign policy is a fundamental rethink of the

:22:28.:22:30.

Government's approach could be one of those opportunities. In fact, it

:22:31.:22:35.

is more than that, it is absolutely imperative we do so. As the

:22:36.:22:39.

Government starts to think, however belatedly, about the kind of the

:22:40.:22:49.

world and we need to have more than just warm words from the Government,

:22:50.:22:52.

we need a plan. I believe our Foreign Office has been at its very

:22:53.:22:56.

best when it has been allowed to get proper weight to the values of

:22:57.:23:00.

Britain in its foreign policy as well as British interests, and I

:23:01.:23:03.

hope the Secretary of State will look to that legacy, embrace it and

:23:04.:23:07.

build on it, not undermine it any further than he already has. In more

:23:08.:23:12.

immediate terms, we need the Government to start thinking

:23:13.:23:15.

sensibly about Europe as a matter of urgency. We know little more about

:23:16.:23:19.

the minister 's intentions than that they are prepared to break the

:23:20.:23:22.

British economic model if they feel that is needed if we do not get a

:23:23.:23:28.

deal. I hope the Secretary of State said it would probably OK it would

:23:29.:23:32.

be better deal, so after saying that, why is the Chancellor briefing

:23:33.:23:38.

he will order ?60 billion because Brexit? Perhaps that is to fund the

:23:39.:23:43.

extra ?350 million a week the Secretary of State promised for the

:23:44.:23:46.

NHS? I hope the Secretary of State has asked the Chancellor because if

:23:47.:23:51.

that is right ?60 million will pay for three years, three months and

:23:52.:23:55.

one week worth of extra money for the NHS. At the moment he seems to

:23:56.:23:58.

be doing just no more than simply crossing his fingers and hoping for

:23:59.:24:03.

the best. This is serious situation. We need clear thinking about the

:24:04.:24:07.

future, our future in Europe and the wider world and simply talking about

:24:08.:24:14.

Toblerone display cabinets and Saudi Arabia is not sufficient. We need a

:24:15.:24:17.

clear plan, clear thinking and we need it without any further delay.

:24:18.:24:26.

It will be obvious to colleagues that a great many people want to

:24:27.:24:31.

speak and although we have plenty of time, I am going to set a time limit

:24:32.:24:37.

immediately for that, otherwise, like last week, the people at the

:24:38.:24:41.

beginning will take three times the amount of time as those at the end.

:24:42.:24:45.

We will start with a time limit of eight minutes. Mr James Morris.

:24:46.:24:52.

Where I totally agree with the Foreign Secretary is weak at this

:24:53.:24:58.

moment are presented with a massive opportunity to create a new form of

:24:59.:25:02.

global Britain and I particularly agree with the Foreign Secretary's

:25:03.:25:06.

point about Britain's soft power. To clarify the point about the amount

:25:07.:25:13.

of FCO funding for the British Council figures show by 2020 there

:25:14.:25:19.

will be 43% rise in FCO funding which I think is reflective of the

:25:20.:25:24.

seriousness with which we do take the opportunities for Britain's

:25:25.:25:29.

sovereign power. The opportunities of global Britain are of particular

:25:30.:25:39.

importance to my constituents. The announcement in the budget for the

:25:40.:25:44.

Midlands engine strategy is a significant moment for the people of

:25:45.:25:51.

the Black Country. The budget set aside ?55 million of new investment

:25:52.:25:56.

to the Black Country which builds on the significant investment that was

:25:57.:26:00.

made in the last Parliament is where, through the City deals, we

:26:01.:26:05.

had significant ?1 million investment in advance of science

:26:06.:26:12.

technology and engineering sector. Significant progress has already

:26:13.:26:16.

been made in terms of investing in the Black Country. The Black Country

:26:17.:26:21.

today is one of the fastest-growing regions, sub regions, in the UK,

:26:22.:26:24.

with more jobs and better skills, but the job is not done. There is

:26:25.:26:33.

more we need to do. As we build the global Britain which the Foreign

:26:34.:26:38.

Secretary talk about, areas like the Black Country which I partially

:26:39.:26:43.

represent, have five key challenges. The first challenge we face is

:26:44.:26:49.

around skills. Even though young people not in education or training

:26:50.:26:54.

is actually below the national average in the Black Country we have

:26:55.:26:59.

made significant progress, there are still skill gaps in the area I

:27:00.:27:06.

represent. I welcome the ?7 million of new capital investment announced

:27:07.:27:10.

in the budget as part of the Midlands engine strategy for further

:27:11.:27:17.

education. More is needed. It is for investment and technical skills and

:27:18.:27:21.

to tackle historic levels of educational underperformance in the

:27:22.:27:23.

Black Country and wider West Midlands. Skill gaps are still

:27:24.:27:30.

holding the Black Country back as we seek to develop this global Britain.

:27:31.:27:35.

The second significant challenge is around transport and infrastructure.

:27:36.:27:43.

That historic underinvestment in transport infrastructure is a

:27:44.:27:48.

holding in the West Midlands back. I welcome the ?25 million that was in

:27:49.:27:53.

the budget for the Midlands engine to tackle congestion, what we need

:27:54.:27:58.

to have a longer term focus on the potential benefits of HS2, the

:27:59.:28:04.

development of Birmingham Airport and other rail and road network

:28:05.:28:07.

across the Black Country and West Midlands. The third big challenge

:28:08.:28:12.

addressed in the budget and what we need to think about for the

:28:13.:28:16.

long-term is about rates of innovation in areas like the Black

:28:17.:28:22.

Country. The Black Country is becoming a world leader in some

:28:23.:28:29.

specific sectors in automotive, aerospace, advanced manufacturing.

:28:30.:28:34.

With specific design products like Bugatti breaks, even match of the

:28:35.:28:41.

Day chairs being produced in the Black Country. The Black Country is

:28:42.:28:45.

developing a worldwide reputation for design and product

:28:46.:28:49.

manufacturing. The fourth key challenge which is the cumulative

:28:50.:28:54.

impact of these is a relative low productivity. This is a bit of a

:28:55.:28:59.

puzzle. One we have yet to solve. We need to tackle by approaching it

:29:00.:29:05.

from all angles. Improving skills, improving education at primary and

:29:06.:29:09.

secondary level and investing in our transport infrastructure and the

:29:10.:29:15.

wider social realm. The first challenge for the Black Country is

:29:16.:29:21.

around exporting inward investment and the potential opportunities for

:29:22.:29:26.

Brexit. The West Midlands export performance has in recent times been

:29:27.:29:30.

excellent, better than many other regions in the UK. With an increase

:29:31.:29:38.

of 49% in exporting since 2010. We need to be positive about the future

:29:39.:29:43.

of the West Midlands and position the West Midlands front and centre

:29:44.:29:49.

of our global trade plans. To take advantage of the opportunities that

:29:50.:29:53.

the Brexit presents. That is why I welcome as part of the Midlands

:29:54.:30:00.

Engine Strategy moves to creating an Midlands trade and investment

:30:01.:30:02.

programme to put the West Midlands front and centre, looking to develop

:30:03.:30:07.

markets with the West Midlands is not currently exporting. A good

:30:08.:30:12.

record in China, the United States and many other countries where we

:30:13.:30:15.

have an opportunity to open up and exploit new markets.

:30:16.:30:26.

Witty agree with me one of the most important skills we still lack in

:30:27.:30:31.

teaching is that of foreign languages? That is intimately

:30:32.:30:38.

associated with our performance in the past. Most are better teaching

:30:39.:30:41.

and learning a foreign languages to penetrate those new markets. He is

:30:42.:30:46.

absolutely right. The foreign languages is the key component of

:30:47.:30:52.

lack but the challenge in an area like the Black Country is to raise

:30:53.:30:55.

the level of educational performance more broadly. Our standards need to

:30:56.:31:02.

be improved and renewed focus on technical education, be weeded the

:31:03.:31:05.

West Midlands to be an outward facing region taking advantage of

:31:06.:31:10.

the global presented. -- we need the West Midlands.

:31:11.:31:16.

One of the critical thing is too often the Black Country and West

:31:17.:31:20.

Midlands is talked about as if it were a relic of Britain's industrial

:31:21.:31:27.

past. That is wrong. Increasingly, the Black Country is in the vanguard

:31:28.:31:34.

of our industrial future. It is a leading player in high-tech

:31:35.:31:38.

manufacturing and has an increasingly competitive and

:31:39.:31:44.

productive economy. What we need to focus on is not somehow managing

:31:45.:31:48.

decline, the Black Country is not some kind of industrial Museum that

:31:49.:31:56.

we look back on with fondness for Britain's industrial greatness.

:31:57.:32:00.

Increasingly, the Black Country is becoming a place which is a world

:32:01.:32:04.

leader in critical parts of our economic future. It is vitally

:32:05.:32:13.

important, as we take A forward review about global Britain, that we

:32:14.:32:21.

don't focus just on London and the south-east, part of our long-term

:32:22.:32:24.

strategy should be the rebalancing of the economy, taking a long time

:32:25.:32:30.

but we have made a lot of progress in achieving that rebalancing and

:32:31.:32:35.

now we need to redouble that effort in order to invest in the

:32:36.:32:40.

appropriate skills, invest in the future of the businesses of areas

:32:41.:32:44.

like the West Midlands and take away barriers to growth. Those barriers

:32:45.:32:48.

are around transport infrastructure, it is simply too difficult to get

:32:49.:32:53.

around the Black Country and the wider West Midlands at the moment.

:32:54.:32:57.

The evidence is because of those transport bottlenecks it is

:32:58.:33:03.

increasingly difficult for the West Midlands to achieve it economic

:33:04.:33:07.

potential and achieve the productive growth it can. As I said, we are not

:33:08.:33:14.

managing decline in the Black Country, nor nostalgically looking

:33:15.:33:18.

back to the mythical golden age, we are seeking to embrace the future,

:33:19.:33:23.

which is the future of the Black Country and future of the area at

:33:24.:33:26.

the future of our young people in a global Britain.

:33:27.:33:37.

It is a pleasure to speak in this budget debate. I had the pleasure of

:33:38.:33:41.

the same thing last year and I really appreciate the opportunity. I

:33:42.:33:44.

want to talk about quite a few things. The Foreign Secretary talk

:33:45.:33:50.

about global Britain. In fact, what we are looking at is a broken Brexit

:33:51.:33:56.

Britain. We are looking at a package of unfairness, not just in this

:33:57.:34:01.

budget, but in the austerity this Government has followed four years

:34:02.:34:07.

in the way ordinary working people have not been supported. Not by this

:34:08.:34:15.

Government and past Government. The UK Government has got its ahead in

:34:16.:34:20.

the sand. Actually, it has got its head in the sand from what I'm sure

:34:21.:34:25.

for it are two very good reasons. Firstly, the UK Government does not

:34:26.:34:28.

have the faintest idea what the Brexit will mean, and the stuff it

:34:29.:34:39.

does no about Brexit is it will be bad. So it does not want to tell us

:34:40.:34:43.

of things. The other thing is the Government part all the paperwork

:34:44.:34:46.

ordinary working people and how this will impact them -- ordinary working

:34:47.:34:53.

people, most of the side or of the people on that side of the chamber

:34:54.:34:57.

do not a clue actually what it is like to be an ordinary working

:34:58.:35:01.

person and the part a clue what it is like to push a trolley round the

:35:02.:35:06.

supermarket and feel the price of inflation going up over the past

:35:07.:35:10.

three months. The price of inflation has gone the highest level than in

:35:11.:35:15.

ages. People are seeing a 15% increase in the price of butter, 6%

:35:16.:35:22.

increase in the price of tea. Those things have a real impact on

:35:23.:35:27.

families budgets because those things are real everyday essentials

:35:28.:35:31.

people regularly buy. The disproportionate affect Windows

:35:32.:35:36.

things go up in price. In Scotland 48.4% of adults have less than ?100

:35:37.:35:43.

in savings. Across the UK families will on average -- O on average more

:35:44.:35:49.

than 2007 the balance. That is the family debt. This is a very tight

:35:50.:35:54.

situation for people and people are struggling and not able to save and

:35:55.:36:00.

have got levels of debt. People who have a mortgage in the past eight

:36:01.:36:06.

years have never seen interest rates above 0.5%. If the Bank of England

:36:07.:36:09.

decides to raise interest rates because of the weakness of the pound

:36:10.:36:14.

these people will be hit by increased mortgage costs they did

:36:15.:36:17.

not expect because they never seen it and therefore have not plan for

:36:18.:36:22.

it. This Government are doing nothing to help the budgets of these

:36:23.:36:29.

people. The actual... I spoke to some of my friends about how they

:36:30.:36:34.

are feeling the impact on the economy and how it hits them and the

:36:35.:36:40.

too many of them said to me, I lie awake at night worrying because I

:36:41.:36:44.

have no savings. What are my partner has laid off? We have no money, no

:36:45.:36:50.

slack in our budgets. With rising inflation because of Brexit, with

:36:51.:36:54.

the fact the UK Government is not willing to take action now to combat

:36:55.:36:59.

this, people's budgets will be squeezed further and we have seen

:37:00.:37:05.

wage stagnation as part of a package of unfairness. The average earnings

:37:06.:37:08.

in 2022 will be no higher than the average earnings in 2007. The UK

:37:09.:37:14.

Government needs to take action and needs to be spending in order to

:37:15.:37:19.

counter this, in order to make sure people's invalided budgets and

:37:20.:37:20.

family incomes balance. I just put it into perspective, the

:37:21.:37:29.

forecast is for inflation to be 2.6%, coming down to 2%, which is

:37:30.:37:35.

higher than we would like, it is above target but it is not the kind

:37:36.:37:38.

of information we have seen in the past under other governments. The

:37:39.:37:42.

honourable lady is talking about a fiscal reflation am putting more

:37:43.:37:47.

money into the economy. That would increase the amount of information.

:37:48.:37:53.

The idea behind the comedy idea is putting more money into things like

:37:54.:37:55.

infrastructure putting money into things that create jobs, research

:37:56.:38:01.

and development, what we have seen in the UK is pitiful productivity

:38:02.:38:04.

and actually in Scotland we are managing to counter that. Our

:38:05.:38:08.

productivity process has been much faster than the growth in the rest

:38:09.:38:13.

of the UK and part of that, I think, if because of the level of

:38:14.:38:18.

infrastructure spending, the fiscal stimulus in terms of infrastructure

:38:19.:38:20.

packages we have put in. We have made a difference in terms of

:38:21.:38:24.

productivity and if the UK Government intends to take us out of

:38:25.:38:28.

the single market, if the UK Government intends to have this

:38:29.:38:32.

situation where it is more difficult task to have trading relationships

:38:33.:38:35.

to export them they are going to need to make sure they are

:38:36.:38:38.

increasing productivity in order to counter that other wise we will see

:38:39.:38:45.

a wage stagnation. A few more things, I want to mention the oil

:38:46.:38:49.

and gas industry. The Chancellor stood up and said it is fabulous

:38:50.:38:52.

what we are doing for the oil and gas industry, we're going to make it

:38:53.:38:57.

easier for oil and gas installations and companies to transfer their

:38:58.:39:02.

assets. This is important. The oil and gas industry will continue to

:39:03.:39:05.

take oil out of the ground for a very long time into the future. What

:39:06.:39:09.

we have is some fields that are nearing maturity and those fields

:39:10.:39:14.

are operated by one of the big operators and what we need to do is

:39:15.:39:18.

we need to make it easier for those assets to be transferred to some of

:39:19.:39:23.

the new operators, some of the smaller operators, in order that

:39:24.:39:27.

they can sweat that asset, get maximum economic recovery out of

:39:28.:39:31.

that asset. The problem that I have with what the UK Government

:39:32.:39:34.

announced is they announced this last year and did not do it. They

:39:35.:39:39.

announced this exact thing last year and it has not been done. Forgive me

:39:40.:39:45.

if I am not dancing around in excitement that there is going to be

:39:46.:39:48.

a panel of experts to look at this thing they announced last year. It

:39:49.:39:51.

would have been nice if they had done it back then. The other couple

:39:52.:39:55.

of things I wanted to mention, I wanted to mention that ?350 of extra

:39:56.:40:04.

money that is going to Scotland. -- ?350 million. It was kind of the

:40:05.:40:09.

Chancellor to say we are giving ?350 million extra to Scotland and

:40:10.:40:11.

actually at is rubbish, that is happening at all. What they are

:40:12.:40:15.

doing if they spending more money in England and Wales and it so happens

:40:16.:40:18.

Scotland gets an extra slice because of that. The thing is, the

:40:19.:40:23.

Chancellor cannot stand up and pretend he is being, you know,

:40:24.:40:28.

giving money to Scotland in the face of asking departments to make 6%

:40:29.:40:33.

cuts, in the face of continuing austerity. The thing is that he

:40:34.:40:39.

can't stand up and say we are giving Scotland all of this money when we

:40:40.:40:42.

have had a 2.9 billion pounds real term cuts over the decade from 2010.

:40:43.:40:49.

It is absolutely ridiculous that we are in this situation. I just want

:40:50.:40:53.

to touch on a couple of things that the Foreign Secretary said. The

:40:54.:40:58.

Foreign Secretary talked about, he mentioned in response to an

:40:59.:41:02.

intervention about the WTO rules and it would be perfectly OK. I am

:41:03.:41:07.

really interested to see the analysis he has done on this and I

:41:08.:41:10.

would be keen to see this because I don't think it would be perfectly

:41:11.:41:14.

OK. I think the Foreign Secretary is guessing, imagining, inventing

:41:15.:41:22.

something new. Or hoping with his fingers crossed, absolutely as my

:41:23.:41:25.

colleague says. Because WTO rules and falling back on a bit nation

:41:26.:41:31.

status is a harsh reality for our exporters. As the harsh reality

:41:32.:41:39.

particularly for SMEs. On this topic, the Foreign Secretary said

:41:40.:41:43.

the most bizarre phrase. He said people on this side of the House

:41:44.:41:48.

were mocking entrepreneurial spirit. This is the party that has moved the

:41:49.:41:52.

changes to the self-employed national insurance contributions and

:41:53.:41:58.

they are accusing us of mocking entrepreneurs. Actually we are

:41:59.:42:02.

supporting those in small business, supporting entrepreneurs,

:42:03.:42:05.

particularly the incredible numbers of women and people on low incomes

:42:06.:42:10.

that have started businesses and have taken on the mantle of

:42:11.:42:14.

self-employment. I think this is really, really important. These

:42:15.:42:18.

people have decided, they have chosen to become self-employed and

:42:19.:42:22.

now this government is taxing that aspiration. Mr Deputy Speaker,

:42:23.:42:29.

sorry, I am confused because the chair was changed there. I think

:42:30.:42:37.

that this budget has dodged far too many of the important issues. It has

:42:38.:42:42.

not spoken about the real fallout from Brexit. Part of the reason they

:42:43.:42:46.

have been able to do that they aren't going to give the ODI any

:42:47.:42:52.

real information so they have been able to dodge the improper forecast

:42:53.:42:59.

that the OBI can be provided. This budget has actually been, despite

:43:00.:43:02.

all of the comments in the run-up, it has been shambolic. It has dodged

:43:03.:43:06.

the issue is, it has taxed aspiration, it has done absolutely

:43:07.:43:10.

nothing for the oil and gas industry beyond what was promised last year.

:43:11.:43:15.

This is not a budget that has been promising for Scotland. This had

:43:16.:43:19.

increased the package of unfairness and it has consigned ordinary

:43:20.:43:24.

working people to long-term lack of prosperity. We will introduce a six

:43:25.:43:31.

minute limit. If we can try and keep tightly that we should be able to

:43:32.:43:35.

get everybody in. It is a pleasure to follow on from the Honourable

:43:36.:43:38.

Lady. I did not agree with a great deal of what she said but

:43:39.:43:41.

nonetheless Scottish people have made such a valuable role in shaping

:43:42.:43:46.

the foreign affairs of the United Kingdom over such a long and

:43:47.:43:50.

protracted period of time and through that the fifth largest

:43:51.:43:53.

economy of the world and through that I trust and hope they continue

:43:54.:43:58.

to do so for many years to come. Mr Deputy Speaker, it will not come as

:43:59.:44:01.

a great surprise to you that I am not much of a mountaineer but I have

:44:02.:44:05.

been told by those that are that the most dangerous point in climbing any

:44:06.:44:09.

mountain is when you have made the stupendous effort and you have got

:44:10.:44:13.

just to the summit and then you begin the so-called easy descent. In

:44:14.:44:20.

fiscal terms, after nine long and difficult years, the House finds

:44:21.:44:23.

itself nearing the top of the summit. The struggle to rein in

:44:24.:44:27.

public debt is an immense and ongoing undertaking but according to

:44:28.:44:36.

the OBR, a percentage of GDP peaks in 2017 in the maximum every single

:44:37.:44:40.

successive year after it falls. Whatever the real temptations

:44:41.:44:46.

encouraged by factors this year to slow further the pace on deficit

:44:47.:44:49.

reduction, we owe it to future generations to finish what we have

:44:50.:44:57.

begun. We are now in our eighth year without a recession. Unlike others,

:44:58.:45:01.

we have no pretence that we can abolish the business cycle and it is

:45:02.:45:10.

critical that we have the rebuild financial firepower to tackle

:45:11.:45:12.

anything that comes our way. It is critical to our domestic economy, it

:45:13.:45:17.

is also equally critical to our standing in the world. 2% on

:45:18.:45:26.

defence, on overseas aid. That gives us hard and soft power but our

:45:27.:45:30.

allies need to know that these commitments are real and

:45:31.:45:35.

sustainable. -- 0.7% on overseas aid. The honourable lady domains

:45:36.:45:43.

vision sees being made in our public sector without recognising in this

:45:44.:45:46.

budget debate the critical importance of bringing down our

:45:47.:45:50.

deficit and to show our ability to act credibly abroad and have

:45:51.:45:56.

long-term sustainable finances. With our national debt topping out at 1.8

:45:57.:46:02.

trillion, our annual interest payments also represent as the

:46:03.:46:05.

Chancellor pointed out the entire annual spending on defence and

:46:06.:46:12.

policing combined. And this is why proper, sensible husbanding of our

:46:13.:46:17.

resources is critical. Despite the huge increase in the national debt,

:46:18.:46:21.

we are spending the same in interest now as we were 15 years ago with the

:46:22.:46:25.

base rate bound to rise, something with which I do agree with the

:46:26.:46:30.

honourable lady from Aberdeen North. This is not sustainable long-term.

:46:31.:46:35.

This risk is compounded by demographic shifts, notably the

:46:36.:46:39.

retirement of the baby boomer generation. These demographic

:46:40.:46:41.

changes are projected to increase the cost of the state pension by 40%

:46:42.:46:45.

and drive up the cost of health and social care spending. That is why I

:46:46.:46:49.

recognise the efforts being made to enhance our productivity with extra

:46:50.:46:58.

spending on technical education, half ?1 billion, 300 million

:46:59.:47:00.

commitment to support the brightest research talent, including 1000 new

:47:01.:47:04.

Ph.D. Places focused on certain subjects. That combined with

:47:05.:47:08.

transport spending will help to narrow our relative activity gap and

:47:09.:47:16.

education is the key. Studying the financial projections of some of our

:47:17.:47:21.

schools in my constituency I can ensure the Chancellor that after

:47:22.:47:24.

years of being underfunded they are run extremely efficiently and

:47:25.:47:28.

tightly, with staffing accounting for 85% of total spend. I believe

:47:29.:47:32.

that schools in historically well funded areas have a lot to learn

:47:33.:47:35.

from places like those in West Sussex and could potentially do more

:47:36.:47:38.

than is currently being asked. I have also -- I am also grateful to

:47:39.:47:45.

the Education Secretary's commitment to a minimum amount of funding

:47:46.:47:49.

required by schools to deliver the standards and curriculum that

:47:50.:47:51.

students and we have every right to expect. I welcome, as the get onto

:47:52.:48:00.

the subject debated in the media, I welcome the Taylor review. I feel

:48:01.:48:05.

sure his report later this year will enlighten how the government can

:48:06.:48:09.

help the southern Clwyd and clarify the position of the Birtley

:48:10.:48:13.

employed. The self-employed population is -- of the virtually

:48:14.:48:17.

employed. The self-employed population, this growth undermines

:48:18.:48:23.

the tax base on which future generations will rely. There is a

:48:24.:48:26.

package of measures being brought forward. Changes to class two and

:48:27.:48:34.

class for NICs, coming in over the next few years, none can be viewed

:48:35.:48:39.

in isolation. 60% of those changes to NICs, the impact is capped at

:48:40.:48:46.

?600 a year for those at the top. The average additional contribution

:48:47.:48:50.

is ?240 per year. Self-employed pension benefits will be enhanced, a

:48:51.:48:54.

benefit if purchased in the open market would cost ?50,000. These

:48:55.:48:59.

measures to help support self-employment in retirement are

:49:00.:49:04.

progressive whilst ensuring that being self-employed has tax

:49:05.:49:09.

advantages. Of course, we will support entrepreneurs, we will help

:49:10.:49:15.

drive our country forward in the new post-Brexit environment but helping

:49:16.:49:17.

them meet the cost of retirement while also narrowing the potential

:49:18.:49:22.

reduction in our tax base, these are proportionate, long-term steps in a

:49:23.:49:25.

budget focused on the long-term financial health of the country

:49:26.:49:31.

which I commend. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. We now go live to the House

:49:32.:49:39.

of lords where peers are returning to the EU notification of withdrawal

:49:40.:49:41.

Bill which was sent back earlier this evening by the House of

:49:42.:49:43.

commons.

:49:44.:49:54.

Live coverage of Monday's proceedings in the House of Commons, including a Ten Minute Rule Bill, consideration of Lords amendments to the EU (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill and a continuation of debate on the Spring Budget 2017.