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music. Now on BBC News it is time for Meet | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
The Author with Nick Higham. In August last year, archaeologists | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
working in a car park in Leicester uncovered the remains of the last | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
English king to die in battle, Richard III, kill that the Battle of | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
Bosworth just outside Leicester in 1485, and known to us as one of | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
history's great villains. The archaeologists were there thanks | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
to the energy and persistence of one woman, Philip Langley, an historian | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
and enthusiast. Now she and Michael Jones have written a book. In it, | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Philip Langley tells the story of the archaeological dig, what led up | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
to it and what they discovered. Michael Jones tells the story of the | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
King's life and death in the light of what we now know. Philippa | :00:53. | :01:01. | |
Langley, Michael Jones, I suppose Richard III is the best example of | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
what we know of in English history, of someone whose reputation has | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
suffered because history is written by the victors. The Tudors who came | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
after him rubbished his reputation and Shakespeare depicted him as the | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
arch bill on. This book is an attempt to rehabilitate him. Do you | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
think you have succeeded `` arch villain. I wanted to put him back | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
into the context of his time. Not to replace a sinner with a saint, but | :01:32. | :01:39. | |
to tell the story in the context of the times of the walls of the Roses, | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
a particularly turbulent and bloody time of our history. And also to put | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
him back in the context of his family. Shakespeare made him a | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
villain but also an outsider, a kind of sociopath. I wanted to put him | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
back in his family's story. It is not about making him good, it is | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
about making him real. One of the most controversial stories about | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
Richard III is that he bumped off his nephews. This is an amicable | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
collaboration on this book but you actually disagree! Philippa, what is | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
your position? The reason I do not think Richard killed his nephews is | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
it was against his character, it was not in his best interests and it | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
also played directly into the hands of his enemies. For those three | :02:29. | :02:38. | |
reasons I think, no way. Michael? From an historical background I | :02:39. | :02:40. | |
think the probability is that he did it. We do not know what happened to | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
the Princes in the Tower. My take is he was not the evil schemer who was | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
attempting to bump them from the beginning, but he was forced early | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
on in his reign to do this terrible act. This book and the television | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
documentary which preceded it and the archaeological dig which | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
discovered Richard's remains, all of this came about because of your | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
energy and drive and determination. Why, what started you on this? Why | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
was it so important? I was researching Richard's life for a | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
screenplay because I think we are always looking for those complex | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
characters which do the most incredible things. Richard just | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
fitted this is like a glove so it was his life that fascinated me. I | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
went to visit Leicester and ended up going to a car park and I did have | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
an experience in that car park where I felt I was walking on his grave. A | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
lot of people will find that hard to accept, it is a suggestion of second | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
sight? It is what it is. It was the catalyst for me and it was the | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
driver for my research. It took 7.5 years to get that tarmac cut. What I | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
then did was I then had to go into the research. I could not walk into | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
any organisation and see, I would like to did your car park because I | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
feel there might be a King's grave there. We had to have the research | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
to back it up. The remarkable thing is when you did start digging in the | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
car park and cut the tarmac, not only did the archaeologists find | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
what they hoped to find, which was a church which has long since | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
vanished, but on the very first day you discovered what turned out to be | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
the bones of Richard III. Archaeology is not supposed to work | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
like that. Know, and we found the bones in the except place where I | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
thought he would be. Finding the bones was important. As Matt | :04:50. | :05:00. | |
admitted, it was unlikely. If I put this trench in 50 centimetres | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
further east I would have missed it entirely and we would never have | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
known it was there. A close shave, but the King had been uncovered. It | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
turns out they are Richard John and reasonable doubt. There is DNA | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
evidence and evidence of the curvature of the spine which goes | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
some way to support the popular idea that he was a hunchback. You dislike | :05:24. | :05:33. | |
that? He was not a hunchback. It is such an inappropriate word but we do | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
not have another word for it. Hunchback syndrome is when the head | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
is pushed forwards and downwards onto the chest. And scoliosis, the | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
twisted spine does not do that? Know, it is a condition, not later | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
this ability. Usain Bolt has scoliosis. How has our understanding | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
of Richard changed? What does it enable historians to conclude what | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
they did not know before? First of all, it gives a vital tangibility. | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
His reputation was so distorted, it was as if he was in the hall of | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
mirrors, a distorting hall of mirrors. His appearance, his | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
character, his motivation was progressively distorted. With | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
Shakespeare we get such a consummate powerful villain, that it is very | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
hard to get him out of our sight range. Now we have an antidote to | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
that. There is now a row about the proposed tomb. You, in the book, | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
have a picture of the proposal of the tomb for Leicester Cathedral | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
which has been rejected by the Leicester Cathedral authorities, as | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
I understand it, and they have proposed an alternative design of | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
their own and you do not like it? I just think the project I delivered | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
to Leicester was all about dignity for Richard and giving him what he | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
did not get in 1485. I just think there are issues with burying the | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
last medieval warrior king of England in such a modernistic tomb. | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
I think it needs to have an essence of the man we are burying here. | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
Michael? Yes, I think there is a place for modernism but there is | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
also a place for tradition and I think the keywords here our respect | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
and dignity. He did not get that in 1485 and we would like to see that | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
happen now. Michael Jones, Philippa Langley, thank you very much. Thank | :07:41. | :07:47. | |
you. This is BBC News and coming up in | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
the next hour, we will take a closer look at China's nuclear energy | :07:53. | :07:53. | |
aspirations. | :07:54. | :07:56. |