20/03/2017 Monday in Parliament


20/03/2017

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Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament, our look at

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the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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On this programme:

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Hold the front page - the ex-Chancellor, George Osborne,

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takes a job as editor of the London Evening Standard.

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"How is that possible?" ask opposition MPs.

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How can a full-time politician be a full-time editor

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of a daily newspaper?

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This Parliament is enhanced when we have people of

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different experience taking part in our robust debate.

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Beware the exit fees -

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as Britain leaves the EU, is it fair for Brussels

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to send us a rather large bill?

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It might be worth tactfully - not one of my strongest points -

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but tactfully reminding people that there is a realistic position

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here, which is that we really do not owe anything to the European Union.

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And those large premiums facing young drivers

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because of their high accident rate.

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One MP thinks he has the solution to the problem.

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This is from 14 years old, that they put them in a car,

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with a highly qualified instructor, learn in an off-road environment.

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But first...

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Roll up, roll up, read all about it!

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George Osborne has often been on the front page

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of the Evening Standard, London's daily evening paper,

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making the news in his days as Chancellor of the Exchequer.

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That was then.

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Few people could have foreseen that Mr Osborne would one day be deciding

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what goes on the front page.

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But that's what he will be doing, now that Mr Osborne has been

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appointed Evening Standard editor at the same time as continuing

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as a Member of Parliament.

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So, is it appropriate for a former Chancellor to be a newspaper editor?

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In the Commons, a Labour frontbencher said there were rules

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in place to counter suspicions that a decision made by a minister

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might be influenced by a future job that he or she took up.

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Disregarding these rules deeply undermines public trust

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in the democratic process and the trust of the work

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of a Member of Parliament and in this House itself.

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It does a disservice to those members that respect

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the trust placed in them by their constituents,

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who spend every hour of their day fighting for their constituents'

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interests, and to ensure that proper attention to the representative

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role of an MP is given, as a vocation to public

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service should require.

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To hold one outside interest is perhaps defensible.

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But to hold several time-consuming outside commitments,

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that have a deep overlap with the political role

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of what is supposed to be a full-time commitment as a member

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of this House, is impossible to defend.

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Well, I thank the honourable gentleman, and I have to say,

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I can see why he took this excuse to drag himself away

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from the Shadow Cabinet away day.

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LAUGHTER

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Which I can imagine why...

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I know...

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I know he will be missing, I know he will be missing with every

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single cell in his body, and that is why I will give him

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a short answer, so he can return as quickly as possible.

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LAUGHTER

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As the honourable gentleman...

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As the honourable gentleman has rightly said, much has already been

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done in this important area.

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The Prime Minister revised the ministerial code

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when she took office.

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It is a matter of high concern to her, and that is why

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for the first time, the ministerial code appends to it the advice

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to ministers on leaving office about seeking the advice

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and assurances, or approbation, or indeed censure, of ACOBA,

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the independent advisory committee on business appointments.

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George Osborne.

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Well, Mr Speaker, when I heard that this urgent question had been

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granted, I thought it was important to be here, although unfortunately,

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we have missed the deadline for the Evening Standard.

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In my view...

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In my view, Mr Speaker, in my view, this Parliament is enhanced

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when we have people of different experience take part

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in our robust debate, and when people who have held senior

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ministerial office continued to contribute to the decisions

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we have to make, but I will listen to what my colleagues have

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to say in this debate, I am interested to hear.

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Minister.

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Well, Mr Speaker, on International Happiness Day,

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we can see some people who are pretty happy!

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But it...

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It...

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LAUGHTER AND HECKLING

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Order, order!

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But it does strike me that we've heard it all,

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when we get a minister standing up to give a response to a perfectly

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reasonable and sensible question and made a joke about it,

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and the honourable member for Tatton thinks it's

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a matter of mere amusement.

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Well, you cannot treat this House and the people as a load of gowks,

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as we would say in Scotland.

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This is a disgraceful shambles, and we need to know what this

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Government is going to do about it.

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Will the Minister please refer to the advisory committee

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the dilemma that exists when a former minister is given

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a particular appointment on the basis of his geographical

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location, but then subsequently secures a further appointment

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which flatly contradicts the interest that he was meant to

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serve for that previous appointment?

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Can the London Standard editor look after the Northern Powerhouse?

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What am I to say to my constituents who feel time and again that

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despite all the talk of the Northern Powerhouse,

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we give up on the North and we head down to London?

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Many people write books, own land, own property,

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should they therefore sell into monastic simplicity?

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Should they therefore sell everything into monastic simplicity

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and become a political class, or should they represent the economy

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and the people of this country by maintaining an intact body

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of effort with other people?

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Tomorrow, I have meetings in this place from 8:30 in the morning

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until 8:30 at night, including two Select Committees,

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and we have several ex-ministers chairing Select Committees,

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doing an excellent job.

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Isn't that where their expertise gained in ministerial

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office should be directed, to scrutinising the work

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of the Executive and doing a job here, not doing

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a job somewhere else?

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I am concerned that the right honourable member might be

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overstretching himself.

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And will ACOBA take account of the European Working Time

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regulations and ensure that he is not damaging his health

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by working excessive hours?

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Across this House, members of all parties work

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extremely hard, and especially when you have the ultimate

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second job as a minister, as a Secretary of State,

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as a Chancellor and of course, as a Prime Minister.

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Would my right honourable friend agree with me that anybody who does

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any other work in addition to their duties as a Member

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of Parliament actually brings a huge Amat of experience into this chamber

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of experience into this chamber

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that makes all of us actually represent everyone in this

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country even better?

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And would he also agree with me, of course the ultimate judge on this

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are our constituents, who at the ballot box can vote us

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out if they don't like what we do?

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The real question to be answered now, how can a full-time politician

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be a full-time editor of a daily newspaper?

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Minister.

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It is one of the many reasons why I admire the honourable gentleman.

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That he walked out of the pit, straight to this place,

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and gave an experience to the House of Commons, to our representative

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democracy, that few people on both benches would be able to provide.

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It is something of enormous value to this House of Commons.

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I am not in a position to make the judgment

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that he invites me to make.

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I would ask that the Independent Committee on Business Interests

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provide their independent report first, before we judge this

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particular incident, and that he contributes his thoughts

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to the wider considerations of the Committee on

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Standards in Public Life.

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I believe that there are strong arguments in his favour,

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there are also strong arguments on the other side and they should be

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discussed in the round.

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Rehabilitation will be put at the heart of the prisons system,

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the Justice Secretary has told MPs.

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She spoke as the Government's Prisons and Courts Bill

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had its first full debate in the Commons.

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Among other things, this will allow witnesses in rape trials

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to record their evidence.

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But the Justice Secretary was warned the prisons system

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in England was in crisis.

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For the first time, it will be clear that the Government isn't just

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responsible for housing prisoners, it will also declare that a key

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purpose of prisons is to reform prisoners and prepare them

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for their return to the community.

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This means getting prisoners off drugs, into work

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and improving their education whilst they are in prison.

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People want to be angry about prisoners and they say that

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it's all their own fault, but actually, a very large

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proportion of people in prison have suffered major brain traumas,

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through fights or various other different means, and actually,

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the support that is available in the wider community,

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through the Health Service, can fully rehabilitate them

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and bring them back into society,

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but the support in prison is still very weak.

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Will the Government be doing more to tackle that?

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May I say how much I welcome this legislation?

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It seems to me to be going in exactly the right direction

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in terms of reforming prisons.

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But she will also be aware that ultimately,

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the ability to deliver these programmes is going to be

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intimately dependent on reducing prison overcrowding,

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because without it, we've seen on many previous occasions that

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however good the programmes, they founder as the prisons

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come under strain.

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The bill contains proposals to hold virtual court hearings.

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But a Labour MP warned this wouldn't work everywhere.

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All these plans for online communication are wonderful.

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If only you have the ability to get quality broadband.

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So, in parts of my constituency, communities are getting broadband

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as low as 25% of capability, so how on earth are people

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going to be able to access justice when they cannot possibly

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do anything online because of appalling broadband?

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Secretary of State.

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Well, we are doing a lot to improve broadband across the country.

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The online system is not mandatory, the paper process will be available.

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It has been the Secretary of State's misfortune to inherit a brief

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dominated from day one by the crisis in our prisons.

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It is not a crisis of the current Secretary of State's making,

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but is one, I would say, created by

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the Conservative Government's cuts agenda.

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So, the statistics are often slanted in this place,

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but they are worth repeating.

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Overcrowding in 68% of our prisons.

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Approximately 77,000 prison places,

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but more than 84,000 people in our prisons.

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And in the 12 months to September 2016,

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over 25,000 prisoner assault incidents within prisons.

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You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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Still to come...

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Does the reality of Brexit mean there'll be no time

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for Parliament to do much else?

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An SNP MP has said allowing young people to drive vehicles on

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private land well before they're 17 could be a way to bring down

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the accident rate of young drivers.

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Calum Kerr was contributing to a Westminster Hall debate

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on the high costs of car insurance for young drivers.

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He believed, in his words, de-mystifying the business of

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car driving for someone reaching 17 made them a better driver.

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He spoke about an event he went to in his constituency.

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I went along on a Saturday and found this phenomenal set up

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where the police, working with local car dealerships,

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the Institute of Advanced Motoring, were taking young drivers

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from the age of 14.

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How do we stop young people getting in the car,

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thinking, as I did, I could drive, and then putting them

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and others at risk?

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One of the ways is to try and demystify it to some extent.

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And by starting people younger.

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So this was from 14 years old, that they put them in a car

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with a highly qualified instructor

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and learned in an off-road environment.

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This was on private land.

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And they had a day's course.

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Several MPs said high premiums were unfairly

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restricting young people.

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Many people would not be able to take up opportunities

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of apprenticeships.

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Many people would not be of the take up opportunities of working

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on something they wish to work on because if they were going to be

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a carer, I think somebody mentioned, in a rural environment,

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these are things that would not be open with the premium being so high

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for those young people.

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For our young people to go out to work and to earn money to get

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that step on the ladder it is hugely important and it means that they can

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be held back and they will not climb that ladder and I think again

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that is hugely important.

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The way to address this issue in the long term is dealing

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with the cause which is that far too many of our young people who go out

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and drive at a young age having just passed their test have accidents,

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and sadly too many of them die or have lifelong

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injuries as a result.

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That is what drives me to want to improve this,

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is making our roads safer for young drivers.

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And the consequence, the result of that, would be

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to drive down premiums, but I am just as focused on saving

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lives as I am about saving money.

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The main logic of his argument which is that insurance costs

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are related to the experience of the driver, but also

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to the age of the driver.

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Would he agree that we have been moving a lot of ages

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of responsibility such as buying cigarettes etc,

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would he agree with increasing the age from 17 to 18 before you can

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get a full licence?

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Thank you for the intervention.

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I personally am not of that view.

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If you look across the world other countries actually allow young

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people to learn to drive at much younger ages.

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And I certainly wouldn't be looking to reduce the age.

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But what I would be saying is that we need to give our young

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people, our 17 and 18-year-olds, more tuition and better experience

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so that they become more capable drivers much quicker

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than is current.

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May I declare an interest as a 25-year-old driver who has just

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renewed his car insurance?

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It wasn't as bad as I thought.

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That is good to report.

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The use of black boxes to measure one's driving ability

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is so important and one of my members of staff,

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her son has just passed his driving test and has a black box in his car.

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And he refuses to let his mum use the car because...

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Because she puts the bad driving statistics up on his car.

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So it is important to say that not all bad drivers are young drivers.

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A future which not only has those driver assistance mechanisms

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but also where the ability to be in a car and travel from A to B may

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not actually even be dependent on having a driving licence

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in the form that we would know it, that the car itself,

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the vehicle itself, could be doing the driving, for some

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of the journey.

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Huge potential there to improve safety.

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But again it's really important that the insurance consequences

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of that are got right.

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Article 50 is to be triggered on Wednesday of next week.

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Just in case you don't know, Article 50 is that part

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of the Lisbon Treaty that formally informs the European Union

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that Britain is leaving.

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The job of letting the President of the European Council

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know about the date, Wednesday March 29th,

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fell to the UK's new ambassador to the EU, Sir Tim Barrow.

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He replaced Sir Ivan Rogers, who resigned in January shortly

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after his remarks to Theresa May warning about a lengthy

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Brexit process got leaked.

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At a committee session, Sir Simon reassured MPs that,

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for the time being anyway, it's business as usual.

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Could you give us the latest gossip?

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Because I imagine that you told your colleagues

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over the weekend that the

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date for Article 50 being given was the 29th of March?

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I was very curious to know what the initial

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reaction was and what they might be looking at in terms of the

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negotiating timetable from the very early conversations in the

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Brussels.

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Thank you for that.

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I did not tell my colleagues anything over the weekend with

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regard to the date.

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I had some conversations this morning as you

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will have seen from the

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releases which you have had.

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And there was a welcome for the clarity of

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that date which fits full square in the commitment

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we have given the Prime

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Minister personally on the timetable.

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Insofar as that is gossip that is the news from Brussels this

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morning.

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Thank you very much.

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Do you or your officials identify any

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change in attitude given that we are negotiating with one eye

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on the door to leave, when we are negotiating

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particularly in relation to matters that will not necessarily affect us

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or affect us for a very brief period of time compared to

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negotiating when we were fully committed to membership for the

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indefinite future?

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To be honest, my colleagues, my committee, what I

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hear from working groups and the like, is that people

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are continuing to fully engage with us.

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We have voting rights, we have obligations, we have

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the rights of a member state, and that has been set

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as a direction, whether it be from the EU institutions,

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member states, or the rotating presidency.

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We are fully part of the conversation.

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Does it feel artificial in any way to be in a

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negotiation about something that has little bearing on us?

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I do not think there is any discussions we have in

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Brussels that have little bearing on us.

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A key issue is whether the UK should pay an exit fee.

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One estimate puts it at ?50 billion.

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But a Lords committee argues that the UK should

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have to pay nothing.

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Essentially this is not just by any means a legal question.

0:20:320:20:34

It is also a political issue.

0:20:340:20:36

Some statements have been made

0:20:360:20:37

in going up as high as 60 billion as the monies due.

0:20:370:20:40

Has anybody pointed out, and would you make sure they do

0:20:400:20:42

understand, that we have been net contributors for many decades to

0:20:420:20:45

the tune of what is now running at around nine

0:20:450:20:47

or ten billion a year,

0:20:470:20:51

that our accumulated liabilities are offset by the extent to which we

0:20:510:20:54

have made these massive contributions?

0:20:540:20:59

Perhaps also to bear in mind that back in 1953 there was

0:20:590:21:09

a thing called the London Debt Agreement where Germany, for all its

0:21:130:21:17

malfeasance during the Second World War, and its unprovoked aggression,

0:21:170:21:19

found that in 1953 in circumstances which were quite remarkable, that we

0:21:190:21:28

remitted one half of all German debt, and that

0:21:280:21:30

therefore if you compare

0:21:300:21:31

that situation with what it is now, and given Germany's extremely

0:21:310:21:36

dominant role in the European Union at the moment, it might be worth

0:21:360:21:46

tactfully, reminding people

0:21:480:21:51

that there is a realistic position here, which is that we really don't

0:21:510:21:54

owe anything to the European union.

0:21:540:21:56

Whether it is legal or political.

0:21:560:21:57

I am not entirely sure how tactful one can

0:21:570:21:59

be when one is mentioning the London Debt Agreement.

0:21:590:22:02

But nevertheless clearly there are a whole range of

0:22:020:22:04

issues...

0:22:040:22:05

You can chalk that one up to me.

0:22:050:22:14

I will probably refer our interlocutors to you, certainly, Sir

0:22:140:22:17

William, but I have to say there are a whole

0:22:170:22:27

William, but I have to say there are a whole range

0:22:310:22:34

of points that must

0:22:340:22:37

emerge in the negotiations.

0:22:370:22:38

Certainly the House of Lords Committee report was extremely

0:22:380:22:40

helpful, and I'm sure that has not gone unnoticed in Brussels.

0:22:400:22:43

Well, the think-tank, the Institute for Government,

0:22:430:22:45

has estimated that as many as 15 new bills could be needed

0:22:450:22:48

to deliver Brexit, a number that, it says,

0:22:480:22:50

will place a huge burden on both Parliament and Government,

0:22:500:22:52

and leave little time for other legislation.

0:22:520:22:54

It said the extra 15 bills would cover areas

0:22:540:22:56

such as immigration, agriculture and customs.

0:22:560:22:57

And it would all be in addition to the Great Repeal Bill.

0:22:570:23:00

Plenty for the House of Lords to argue over at question time.

0:23:000:23:03

Oh, and as for that date, in case you missed it.

0:23:030:23:08

We will trigger Article 50 on the 29th of March, next Wednesday.

0:23:080:23:18

I assume that once the application has been

0:23:190:23:21

put in for Article 50 that it is not reversible.

0:23:210:23:23

It is a matter of firm policy that once Article 50

0:23:230:23:26

is issued it will not be revoked, and I can also assure my noble

0:23:260:23:30

friend and your Lordships that the Government is indeed intent on

0:23:300:23:33

delivering the result of the referendum.

0:23:330:23:35

The United Kingdom will leave the EU.

0:23:350:23:43

And to quote line one of the White Paper, we do not

0:23:430:23:46

approach these negotiations expecting failure, but anticipating

0:23:460:23:48

success.

0:23:480:23:52

The Brexit secretary David Davis last week told the Brexit

0:23:520:23:55

Committee in the other place that the Government

0:23:550:23:57

had not carried out a

0:23:570:23:59

full assessment of the economic impact of the no deal pledged or

0:23:590:24:02

threatened by the Prime Minister.

0:24:020:24:03

He said he might be able to do it in

0:24:030:24:06

about a year's time.

0:24:060:24:15

Doesn't this show that the Government's

0:24:150:24:18

brutal Brexit policy being driven by blinkered ideology, is totally

0:24:180:24:21

incompetent and irresponsible, and doesn't it reinforce the need for

0:24:210:24:23

Parliament to be in charge to stop a plunge off the cliff and for

0:24:230:24:26

voters to get the final say?

0:24:260:24:28

I am very sorry to disappoint the noble

0:24:280:24:30

Baroness.

0:24:300:24:31

I do not think it will come as a great surprise to say I

0:24:310:24:34

disagree entirely with the premise of her question.

0:24:340:24:36

We are not seeking the kind of outcome that the noble

0:24:360:24:39

Baroness has just outlined.

0:24:390:24:40

As I've just said we are seeking success in

0:24:400:24:42

this negotiation.

0:24:420:24:43

We are seeking a partnership, a partnership because

0:24:430:24:46

we see it as in our interests and Europe's interests to come to such

0:24:460:24:49

an agreement, and I am entirely of the view

0:24:490:24:51

that we will be able to

0:24:510:24:53

come to such a partnership, that we will be able

0:24:530:24:55

to strike an agreement, so long as both sides enter into

0:24:550:24:59

these negotiations in the spirit that we are doing, which is one of

0:24:590:25:02

good faith and goodwill.

0:25:020:25:03

One of the noble Lords on the front bench asked

0:25:030:25:06

a key question.

0:25:060:25:07

Can I ask the corollary?

0:25:070:25:08

In view of the volume, the huge volume of legislation in

0:25:080:25:18

order to implement Brexit will there be any time for any other

0:25:180:25:21

legislation for Parliament?

0:25:210:25:22

We have an action-packed manifesto which we are

0:25:220:25:23

determined to see through as much as possible.

0:25:230:25:25

I am sorry but that is what happens when you get elected,

0:25:250:25:28

my lords.

0:25:280:25:29

You get elected on a manifesto and then you see it through.

0:25:290:25:32

And that is what we are going to do.

0:25:320:25:35

Lord Bridges causing some merriment in the House of Lords.

0:25:350:25:38

And that's it for this programme.

0:25:380:25:39

Alicia McCarthy will be here for the rest of the week.

0:25:390:25:42

But for now, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye.

0:25:420:25:52

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