Browse content similar to 20/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament, our look at | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
On this programme: | 0:00:22 | 0:00:23 | |
Hold the front page - the ex-Chancellor, George Osborne, | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
takes a job as editor of the London Evening Standard. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
"How is that possible?" ask opposition MPs. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:34 | |
How can a full-time politician be a full-time editor | 0:00:34 | 0:00:39 | |
of a daily newspaper? | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
This Parliament is enhanced when we have people of | 0:00:42 | 0:00:46 | |
different experience taking part in our robust debate. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
Beware the exit fees - | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
as Britain leaves the EU, is it fair for Brussels | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
to send us a rather large bill? | 0:00:54 | 0:00:58 | |
It might be worth tactfully - not one of my strongest points - | 0:00:58 | 0:01:02 | |
but tactfully reminding people that there is a realistic position | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
here, which is that we really do not owe anything to the European Union. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:13 | |
And those large premiums facing young drivers | 0:01:13 | 0:01:16 | |
because of their high accident rate. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
One MP thinks he has the solution to the problem. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:23 | |
This is from 14 years old, that they put them in a car, | 0:01:23 | 0:01:27 | |
with a highly qualified instructor, learn in an off-road environment. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:33 | |
But first... | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
Roll up, roll up, read all about it! | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
George Osborne has often been on the front page | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
of the Evening Standard, London's daily evening paper, | 0:01:39 | 0:01:43 | |
making the news in his days as Chancellor of the Exchequer. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
That was then. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
Few people could have foreseen that Mr Osborne would one day be deciding | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
what goes on the front page. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
But that's what he will be doing, now that Mr Osborne has been | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
appointed Evening Standard editor at the same time as continuing | 0:01:58 | 0:02:00 | |
as a Member of Parliament. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
So, is it appropriate for a former Chancellor to be a newspaper editor? | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
In the Commons, a Labour frontbencher said there were rules | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
in place to counter suspicions that a decision made by a minister | 0:02:11 | 0:02:15 | |
might be influenced by a future job that he or she took up. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:21 | |
Disregarding these rules deeply undermines public trust | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
in the democratic process and the trust of the work | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
of a Member of Parliament and in this House itself. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
It does a disservice to those members that respect | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
the trust placed in them by their constituents, | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
who spend every hour of their day fighting for their constituents' | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
interests, and to ensure that proper attention to the representative | 0:02:46 | 0:02:52 | |
role of an MP is given, as a vocation to public | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
service should require. | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
To hold one outside interest is perhaps defensible. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
But to hold several time-consuming outside commitments, | 0:03:04 | 0:03:08 | |
that have a deep overlap with the political role | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
of what is supposed to be a full-time commitment as a member | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
of this House, is impossible to defend. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:19 | |
Well, I thank the honourable gentleman, and I have to say, | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
I can see why he took this excuse to drag himself away | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
from the Shadow Cabinet away day. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
Which I can imagine why... | 0:03:29 | 0:03:34 | |
I know... | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
I know he will be missing, I know he will be missing with every | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
single cell in his body, and that is why I will give him | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
a short answer, so he can return as quickly as possible. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
As the honourable gentleman... | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
As the honourable gentleman has rightly said, much has already been | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
done in this important area. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
The Prime Minister revised the ministerial code | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
when she took office. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
It is a matter of high concern to her, and that is why | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
for the first time, the ministerial code appends to it the advice | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
to ministers on leaving office about seeking the advice | 0:04:12 | 0:04:16 | |
and assurances, or approbation, or indeed censure, of ACOBA, | 0:04:16 | 0:04:21 | |
the independent advisory committee on business appointments. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:26 | |
George Osborne. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
Well, Mr Speaker, when I heard that this urgent question had been | 0:04:27 | 0:04:32 | |
granted, I thought it was important to be here, although unfortunately, | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
we have missed the deadline for the Evening Standard. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
In my view... | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
In my view, Mr Speaker, in my view, this Parliament is enhanced | 0:04:42 | 0:04:47 | |
when we have people of different experience take part | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
in our robust debate, and when people who have held senior | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
ministerial office continued to contribute to the decisions | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
we have to make, but I will listen to what my colleagues have | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
to say in this debate, I am interested to hear. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
Minister. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
Well, Mr Speaker, on International Happiness Day, | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
we can see some people who are pretty happy! | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
But it... | 0:05:15 | 0:05:16 | |
It... | 0:05:16 | 0:05:17 | |
LAUGHTER AND HECKLING | 0:05:17 | 0:05:18 | |
Order, order! | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
But it does strike me that we've heard it all, | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
when we get a minister standing up to give a response to a perfectly | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
reasonable and sensible question and made a joke about it, | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
and the honourable member for Tatton thinks it's | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
a matter of mere amusement. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
Well, you cannot treat this House and the people as a load of gowks, | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
as we would say in Scotland. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:43 | |
This is a disgraceful shambles, and we need to know what this | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
Government is going to do about it. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
Will the Minister please refer to the advisory committee | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
the dilemma that exists when a former minister is given | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
a particular appointment on the basis of his geographical | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
location, but then subsequently secures a further appointment | 0:05:59 | 0:06:05 | |
which flatly contradicts the interest that he was meant to | 0:06:05 | 0:06:09 | |
serve for that previous appointment? | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
Can the London Standard editor look after the Northern Powerhouse? | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
What am I to say to my constituents who feel time and again that | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
despite all the talk of the Northern Powerhouse, | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
we give up on the North and we head down to London? | 0:06:26 | 0:06:29 | |
Many people write books, own land, own property, | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
should they therefore sell into monastic simplicity? | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
Should they therefore sell everything into monastic simplicity | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
and become a political class, or should they represent the economy | 0:06:39 | 0:06:45 | |
and the people of this country by maintaining an intact body | 0:06:45 | 0:06:49 | |
of effort with other people? | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
Tomorrow, I have meetings in this place from 8:30 in the morning | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
until 8:30 at night, including two Select Committees, | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
and we have several ex-ministers chairing Select Committees, | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
doing an excellent job. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
Isn't that where their expertise gained in ministerial | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
office should be directed, to scrutinising the work | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
of the Executive and doing a job here, not doing | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
a job somewhere else? | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
I am concerned that the right honourable member might be | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
overstretching himself. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
And will ACOBA take account of the European Working Time | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
regulations and ensure that he is not damaging his health | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
by working excessive hours? | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
Across this House, members of all parties work | 0:07:30 | 0:07:32 | |
extremely hard, and especially when you have the ultimate | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
second job as a minister, as a Secretary of State, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:43 | |
as a Chancellor and of course, as a Prime Minister. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
Would my right honourable friend agree with me that anybody who does | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
any other work in addition to their duties as a Member | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
of Parliament actually brings a huge Amat of experience into this chamber | 0:07:51 | 0:07:56 | |
of experience into this chamber | 0:07:56 | 0:07:57 | |
that makes all of us actually represent everyone in this | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
country even better? | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
And would he also agree with me, of course the ultimate judge on this | 0:08:03 | 0:08:10 | |
are our constituents, who at the ballot box can vote us | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
out if they don't like what we do? | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
The real question to be answered now, how can a full-time politician | 0:08:15 | 0:08:20 | |
be a full-time editor of a daily newspaper? | 0:08:20 | 0:08:26 | |
Minister. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
It is one of the many reasons why I admire the honourable gentleman. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:31 | |
That he walked out of the pit, straight to this place, | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
and gave an experience to the House of Commons, to our representative | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
democracy, that few people on both benches would be able to provide. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:41 | |
It is something of enormous value to this House of Commons. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
I am not in a position to make the judgment | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
that he invites me to make. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
I would ask that the Independent Committee on Business Interests | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
provide their independent report first, before we judge this | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
particular incident, and that he contributes his thoughts | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
to the wider considerations of the Committee on | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
Standards in Public Life. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
I believe that there are strong arguments in his favour, | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
there are also strong arguments on the other side and they should be | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
discussed in the round. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:11 | |
Rehabilitation will be put at the heart of the prisons system, | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
the Justice Secretary has told MPs. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
She spoke as the Government's Prisons and Courts Bill | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
had its first full debate in the Commons. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
Among other things, this will allow witnesses in rape trials | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
to record their evidence. | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
But the Justice Secretary was warned the prisons system | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
in England was in crisis. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
For the first time, it will be clear that the Government isn't just | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
responsible for housing prisoners, it will also declare that a key | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
purpose of prisons is to reform prisoners and prepare them | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
for their return to the community. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:53 | |
This means getting prisoners off drugs, into work | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
and improving their education whilst they are in prison. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
People want to be angry about prisoners and they say that | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
it's all their own fault, but actually, a very large | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
proportion of people in prison have suffered major brain traumas, | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
through fights or various other different means, and actually, | 0:10:06 | 0:10:12 | |
the support that is available in the wider community, | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
through the Health Service, can fully rehabilitate them | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
and bring them back into society, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
but the support in prison is still very weak. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
Will the Government be doing more to tackle that? | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
May I say how much I welcome this legislation? | 0:10:26 | 0:10:28 | |
It seems to me to be going in exactly the right direction | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
in terms of reforming prisons. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
But she will also be aware that ultimately, | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
the ability to deliver these programmes is going to be | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
intimately dependent on reducing prison overcrowding, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
because without it, we've seen on many previous occasions that | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
however good the programmes, they founder as the prisons | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
come under strain. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:59 | |
The bill contains proposals to hold virtual court hearings. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
But a Labour MP warned this wouldn't work everywhere. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
All these plans for online communication are wonderful. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:05 | |
If only you have the ability to get quality broadband. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:10 | |
So, in parts of my constituency, communities are getting broadband | 0:11:10 | 0:11:14 | |
as low as 25% of capability, so how on earth are people | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
going to be able to access justice when they cannot possibly | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
do anything online because of appalling broadband? | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
Secretary of State. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:29 | |
Well, we are doing a lot to improve broadband across the country. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
The online system is not mandatory, the paper process will be available. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
It has been the Secretary of State's misfortune to inherit a brief | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
dominated from day one by the crisis in our prisons. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:45 | |
It is not a crisis of the current Secretary of State's making, | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
but is one, I would say, created by | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
the Conservative Government's cuts agenda. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
So, the statistics are often slanted in this place, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
but they are worth repeating. | 0:11:58 | 0:12:01 | |
Overcrowding in 68% of our prisons. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
Approximately 77,000 prison places, | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
but more than 84,000 people in our prisons. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
And in the 12 months to September 2016, | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
over 25,000 prisoner assault incidents within prisons. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:21 | |
You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons and the Lords. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
Still to come... | 0:12:24 | 0:12:26 | |
Does the reality of Brexit mean there'll be no time | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
for Parliament to do much else? | 0:12:28 | 0:12:35 | |
An SNP MP has said allowing young people to drive vehicles on | 0:12:35 | 0:12:40 | |
private land well before they're 17 could be a way to bring down | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
the accident rate of young drivers. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
Calum Kerr was contributing to a Westminster Hall debate | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
on the high costs of car insurance for young drivers. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:53 | |
He believed, in his words, de-mystifying the business of | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
car driving for someone reaching 17 made them a better driver. | 0:12:55 | 0:13:01 | |
He spoke about an event he went to in his constituency. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:08 | |
I went along on a Saturday and found this phenomenal set up | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
where the police, working with local car dealerships, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:17 | |
the Institute of Advanced Motoring, were taking young drivers | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
from the age of 14. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:32 | |
How do we stop young people getting in the car, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:42 | |
thinking, as I did, I could drive, and then putting them | 0:13:42 | 0:13:46 | |
and others at risk? | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
One of the ways is to try and demystify it to some extent. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
And by starting people younger. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
So this was from 14 years old, that they put them in a car | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
with a highly qualified instructor | 0:13:59 | 0:14:00 | |
and learned in an off-road environment. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:01 | |
This was on private land. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
And they had a day's course. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:10 | |
Several MPs said high premiums were unfairly | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
restricting young people. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:17 | |
Many people would not be able to take up opportunities | 0:14:17 | 0:14:19 | |
of apprenticeships. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:20 | |
Many people would not be of the take up opportunities of working | 0:14:20 | 0:14:23 | |
on something they wish to work on because if they were going to be | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
a carer, I think somebody mentioned, in a rural environment, | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
these are things that would not be open with the premium being so high | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
for those young people. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:33 | |
For our young people to go out to work and to earn money to get | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
that step on the ladder it is hugely important and it means that they can | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
be held back and they will not climb that ladder and I think again | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
that is hugely important. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:45 | |
The way to address this issue in the long term is dealing | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
with the cause which is that far too many of our young people who go out | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
and drive at a young age having just passed their test have accidents, | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
and sadly too many of them die or have lifelong | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
injuries as a result. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
That is what drives me to want to improve this, | 0:14:58 | 0:15:00 | |
is making our roads safer for young drivers. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
And the consequence, the result of that, would be | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
to drive down premiums, but I am just as focused on saving | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
lives as I am about saving money. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:13 | |
The main logic of his argument which is that insurance costs | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
are related to the experience of the driver, but also | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
to the age of the driver. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:21 | |
Would he agree that we have been moving a lot of ages | 0:15:21 | 0:15:29 | |
of responsibility such as buying cigarettes etc, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
would he agree with increasing the age from 17 to 18 before you can | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
get a full licence? | 0:15:36 | 0:15:37 | |
Thank you for the intervention. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:38 | |
I personally am not of that view. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
If you look across the world other countries actually allow young | 0:15:40 | 0:15:42 | |
people to learn to drive at much younger ages. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
And I certainly wouldn't be looking to reduce the age. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
But what I would be saying is that we need to give our young | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
people, our 17 and 18-year-olds, more tuition and better experience | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
so that they become more capable drivers much quicker | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
than is current. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:02 | |
May I declare an interest as a 25-year-old driver who has just | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
renewed his car insurance? | 0:16:05 | 0:16:06 | |
It wasn't as bad as I thought. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:07 | |
That is good to report. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
The use of black boxes to measure one's driving ability | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
is so important and one of my members of staff, | 0:16:13 | 0:16:19 | |
her son has just passed his driving test and has a black box in his car. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
And he refuses to let his mum use the car because... | 0:16:23 | 0:16:33 | |
Because she puts the bad driving statistics up on his car. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
So it is important to say that not all bad drivers are young drivers. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:43 | |
A future which not only has those driver assistance mechanisms | 0:16:43 | 0:16:50 | |
but also where the ability to be in a car and travel from A to B may | 0:16:50 | 0:16:56 | |
not actually even be dependent on having a driving licence | 0:16:56 | 0:17:01 | |
in the form that we would know it, that the car itself, | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
the vehicle itself, could be doing the driving, for some | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
of the journey. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
Huge potential there to improve safety. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
But again it's really important that the insurance consequences | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
of that are got right. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:23 | |
Article 50 is to be triggered on Wednesday of next week. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:27 | |
Just in case you don't know, Article 50 is that part | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
of the Lisbon Treaty that formally informs the European Union | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
that Britain is leaving. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
The job of letting the President of the European Council | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
know about the date, Wednesday March 29th, | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
fell to the UK's new ambassador to the EU, Sir Tim Barrow. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
He replaced Sir Ivan Rogers, who resigned in January shortly | 0:17:47 | 0:17:51 | |
after his remarks to Theresa May warning about a lengthy | 0:17:51 | 0:17:53 | |
Brexit process got leaked. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
At a committee session, Sir Simon reassured MPs that, | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
for the time being anyway, it's business as usual. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:10 | |
Could you give us the latest gossip? | 0:18:10 | 0:18:12 | |
Because I imagine that you told your colleagues | 0:18:12 | 0:18:14 | |
over the weekend that the | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
date for Article 50 being given was the 29th of March? | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
I was very curious to know what the initial | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
reaction was and what they might be looking at in terms of the | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
negotiating timetable from the very early conversations in the | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
Brussels. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
Thank you for that. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:37 | |
I did not tell my colleagues anything over the weekend with | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
regard to the date. | 0:18:39 | 0:18:40 | |
I had some conversations this morning as you | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
will have seen from the | 0:18:42 | 0:18:44 | |
releases which you have had. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
And there was a welcome for the clarity of | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
that date which fits full square in the commitment | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
we have given the Prime | 0:18:52 | 0:18:53 | |
Minister personally on the timetable. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
Insofar as that is gossip that is the news from Brussels this | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
morning. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:00 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
Do you or your officials identify any | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
change in attitude given that we are negotiating with one eye | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
on the door to leave, when we are negotiating | 0:19:07 | 0:19:14 | |
particularly in relation to matters that will not necessarily affect us | 0:19:14 | 0:19:20 | |
or affect us for a very brief period of time compared to | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
negotiating when we were fully committed to membership for the | 0:19:23 | 0:19:25 | |
indefinite future? | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
To be honest, my colleagues, my committee, what I | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
hear from working groups and the like, is that people | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
are continuing to fully engage with us. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
We have voting rights, we have obligations, we have | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
the rights of a member state, and that has been set | 0:19:42 | 0:19:50 | |
as a direction, whether it be from the EU institutions, | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
member states, or the rotating presidency. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
We are fully part of the conversation. | 0:19:54 | 0:20:00 | |
Does it feel artificial in any way to be in a | 0:20:00 | 0:20:02 | |
negotiation about something that has little bearing on us? | 0:20:02 | 0:20:04 | |
I do not think there is any discussions we have in | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
Brussels that have little bearing on us. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:17 | |
A key issue is whether the UK should pay an exit fee. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:21 | |
One estimate puts it at ?50 billion. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:23 | |
But a Lords committee argues that the UK should | 0:20:23 | 0:20:25 | |
have to pay nothing. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:32 | |
Essentially this is not just by any means a legal question. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
It is also a political issue. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
Some statements have been made | 0:20:36 | 0:20:37 | |
in going up as high as 60 billion as the monies due. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
Has anybody pointed out, and would you make sure they do | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
understand, that we have been net contributors for many decades to | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
the tune of what is now running at around nine | 0:20:45 | 0:20:47 | |
or ten billion a year, | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
that our accumulated liabilities are offset by the extent to which we | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
have made these massive contributions? | 0:20:54 | 0:20:59 | |
Perhaps also to bear in mind that back in 1953 there was | 0:20:59 | 0:21:09 | |
a thing called the London Debt Agreement where Germany, for all its | 0:21:13 | 0:21:17 | |
malfeasance during the Second World War, and its unprovoked aggression, | 0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | |
found that in 1953 in circumstances which were quite remarkable, that we | 0:21:19 | 0:21:28 | |
remitted one half of all German debt, and that | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
therefore if you compare | 0:21:30 | 0:21:31 | |
that situation with what it is now, and given Germany's extremely | 0:21:31 | 0:21:36 | |
dominant role in the European Union at the moment, it might be worth | 0:21:36 | 0:21:46 | |
tactfully, reminding people | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
that there is a realistic position here, which is that we really don't | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
owe anything to the European union. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:56 | |
Whether it is legal or political. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:57 | |
I am not entirely sure how tactful one can | 0:21:57 | 0:21:59 | |
be when one is mentioning the London Debt Agreement. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
But nevertheless clearly there are a whole range of | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
issues... | 0:22:04 | 0:22:05 | |
You can chalk that one up to me. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:14 | |
I will probably refer our interlocutors to you, certainly, Sir | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
William, but I have to say there are a whole | 0:22:17 | 0:22:27 | |
William, but I have to say there are a whole range | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
of points that must | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
emerge in the negotiations. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:38 | |
Certainly the House of Lords Committee report was extremely | 0:22:38 | 0:22:40 | |
helpful, and I'm sure that has not gone unnoticed in Brussels. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
Well, the think-tank, the Institute for Government, | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
has estimated that as many as 15 new bills could be needed | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
to deliver Brexit, a number that, it says, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
will place a huge burden on both Parliament and Government, | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
and leave little time for other legislation. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
It said the extra 15 bills would cover areas | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
such as immigration, agriculture and customs. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:57 | |
And it would all be in addition to the Great Repeal Bill. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
Plenty for the House of Lords to argue over at question time. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:03 | |
Oh, and as for that date, in case you missed it. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
We will trigger Article 50 on the 29th of March, next Wednesday. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:18 | |
I assume that once the application has been | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
put in for Article 50 that it is not reversible. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
It is a matter of firm policy that once Article 50 | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
is issued it will not be revoked, and I can also assure my noble | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
friend and your Lordships that the Government is indeed intent on | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
delivering the result of the referendum. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
The United Kingdom will leave the EU. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:43 | |
And to quote line one of the White Paper, we do not | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
approach these negotiations expecting failure, but anticipating | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
success. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
The Brexit secretary David Davis last week told the Brexit | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
Committee in the other place that the Government | 0:23:55 | 0:23:57 | |
had not carried out a | 0:23:57 | 0:23:59 | |
full assessment of the economic impact of the no deal pledged or | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
threatened by the Prime Minister. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:03 | |
He said he might be able to do it in | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
about a year's time. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:15 | |
Doesn't this show that the Government's | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
brutal Brexit policy being driven by blinkered ideology, is totally | 0:24:18 | 0:24:21 | |
incompetent and irresponsible, and doesn't it reinforce the need for | 0:24:21 | 0:24:23 | |
Parliament to be in charge to stop a plunge off the cliff and for | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
voters to get the final say? | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
I am very sorry to disappoint the noble | 0:24:28 | 0:24:30 | |
Baroness. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:31 | |
I do not think it will come as a great surprise to say I | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
disagree entirely with the premise of her question. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
We are not seeking the kind of outcome that the noble | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
Baroness has just outlined. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:40 | |
As I've just said we are seeking success in | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
this negotiation. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:43 | |
We are seeking a partnership, a partnership because | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
we see it as in our interests and Europe's interests to come to such | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
an agreement, and I am entirely of the view | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
that we will be able to | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
come to such a partnership, that we will be able | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
to strike an agreement, so long as both sides enter into | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
these negotiations in the spirit that we are doing, which is one of | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
good faith and goodwill. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:03 | |
One of the noble Lords on the front bench asked | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
a key question. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:07 | |
Can I ask the corollary? | 0:25:07 | 0:25:08 | |
In view of the volume, the huge volume of legislation in | 0:25:08 | 0:25:18 | |
order to implement Brexit will there be any time for any other | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
legislation for Parliament? | 0:25:21 | 0:25:22 | |
We have an action-packed manifesto which we are | 0:25:22 | 0:25:23 | |
determined to see through as much as possible. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
I am sorry but that is what happens when you get elected, | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
my lords. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:29 | |
You get elected on a manifesto and then you see it through. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
And that is what we are going to do. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
Lord Bridges causing some merriment in the House of Lords. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
And that's it for this programme. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:39 | |
Alicia McCarthy will be here for the rest of the week. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
But for now, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:52 |