Browse content similar to 08/09/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
How Conservative is the Conservative-led coalition, on | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
everything from Europe to banking reforms, Free Schools to abortion | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
and the NHS, is David Cameron paying too much attention to the | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
Liberal Democrats and not enough to the Tories. We debate with a | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
Conservative MP who is worried he might be, and Nick Clegg's Chief- | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
of-Staff. Ten years after the attacks that | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
changed America forever, General Colin Powell tells Newsnight where | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
things went wrong. The Taliban turned out to be much more | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
resilient and Al-Qaeda much more persistent in its presence than | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
anyone anticipated back then. tough tactics by the police and the | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
FBI in the wake of 9/11 led to things going sometimes too far. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
They went too far, it was entrapment, the Government set it | :00:51. | :01:01. | |
:01:01. | :01:03. | ||
up. The story of a teenager who married Peter Tobin, how she | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
escaped from being his first victim. When I had his son, I changed from | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
being a potential victim to a possession. That is why I'm still | :01:13. | :01:21. | |
alive, I think. Hello, good evening. One Conservative MP made a point of | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
asking David Cameron if he would pay as much attention to his own | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
party on Europe, as he has to the Liberal Democrats on other policies. | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
Another Tory on Newsnight last night, accused the Liberal | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
Democrats of blackmailing David Cameron on abortion. Nick Clegg has | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
trumpetted how he believes the Liberal Democrats have changed Tory | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
policy. What is the balance of power in the coalition, have the | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
Liberal Democrats got more influence than they deserve, and | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
how damaging to relations could that be. We will debate in a moment. | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
For some Conservative MPs their party hasn't really done what it | :01:55. | :02:02. | |
said on the tin. Tory blue, polluted and diluted by an alien | :02:02. | :02:11. | |
orange. Their MPs can disagree on substantial issues. Free Schools or | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
local authority schools? Local authority schools. Free Schools, I | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
think, are excellent. As well as the more trivial. Salad or chips? | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
You see I'm on a health binge at the moment, so salad. Chips. As one | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
Conservative proved in the Commons yesterday, frustration, | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
particularly on the right of the party, is coming to the surface. | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
Speaker, the Liberal Democrats make up 7% of this parliament, and yet | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
they seem to be influencing our Free School policy, health, many | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
issues, immigration and abortion. Does the Prime Minister think it is | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
about time he told the deputy Prime Minister who is the boss? I think | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
nobody ever thought David Cameron would do lots of right-wing things | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
in as a Prime Minister in a coalition. The frustration is the | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
Liberal Democrats are having a lot more impact on Tory policy than | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
most Tory MPs want to accept. He has a choice, he either talks to | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
the right-wing, which he isn't doing, and placates them, or some | :03:15. | :03:22. | |
say there will be a big explosion. There are plenty of areas of | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
coalition tension, for instance, taxes for the rich, the | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
Conservatives want to get rid of the 50p rate, the Liberal Democrats | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
say only if you replace it with something as harsh. There will | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
always be disagreement on Europe, the Conservatives are far more | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
Euro-sceptical than the Euro- enthusiasts the Liberal Democrats. | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
On health reform, the bill is through the Commons, although the | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
Lords now promises to be a trickier proposition. There is conflict | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
still on going on elected police commissioners, and whether to | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
replace the European Convention on Human Rights, with a British Bill | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
of Rights. One thing that gets Conservative | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
MPs really hacked off, is when the Liberal Democrats, in their view, | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
try to present themselves as the conscience of the coalition, | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
preventing those wicked Tories from running riot. For start, they want | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
their leader, David Cameron, to get a bit more robust in defending | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
their honour. In Government the Liberal Democrats have been able to | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
change things and influence Government policy, which means that | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
the policy that is now being implemented, for example, in the | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
NHS, is not what would have happened if the Conservatives had | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
been in Government on their own. There is a very distinctive Liberal | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
Democrat stamp on that policy. perhaps, for their own interests, | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
have been portraying themselves in that light. But then the job is for | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
the Conservative Party to stick up for its interests, and say on some | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
of these things the Conservative Party has led the way in | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
readdressing, or changing the Government's position. Something | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
else that gets Conservative MPs fuming, is when their leader, David | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
Cameron, describes the coalition, not as a regretable compromise, but, | :05:05. | :05:13. | |
as actually the most perfect synthesis of ideas possible, and | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
delivering far better policies than mere Conservatives could achieve on | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
their own. Next week's commission report, the 50p tax, the CCTV, | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
dealing with the riots, every day you are seeing the Tory Party and | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Number Ten at odds on a whole range of really, really important | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
political issues. At some stage Number Ten has come to a view, | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
after the next election, does he want the coalition to continue, or | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
does he want to be the Prime Minister leading a right-wing Tory | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
Government. At the moment I think it is probably with the former. | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Selected police commissioners was a policy the Conservatives brought to | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
the coalition, and many Liberal Democrats don't much like it. The | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
elections for these posts, in England and Wales, were due to be | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
run at the same time as the local elections next May. They have now | :05:58. | :06:08. | |
been delayed until next November. At a cost of �25 million. Today the | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Home Secretary was asked was this a result of the Liberal Democrats | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
exercising their muscles. Is this not a decision that has been taken | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
because Mr Clegg and the Liberal Democrats, have decided to put | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
party issues above the high principles that you and the Prime | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
Minister feel are important, in terms of democratic accountability? | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Not surprisingly the Home Secretary wasn't inclined to agree. The big | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
coalition split is not actually between the parties it is between | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
the benches, front and back. Broadly speaking, those with access | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
to minister chauffeur, are far happier than those who have to get | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
the bus. Nobody may have actually chosen this particular political | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
shade, but trying to unmix its constituent colours may prove both | :07:02. | :07:09. | |
messy and difficult. I'm joined by Norman Lamb, Liberal | :07:09. | :07:18. | |
Democrat MP, Chief-of-Staff to Nick Clegg, and the Conservative MP. | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
You were the first one who raised this, what are you worried about | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
here? I have a particular worry on Europe, and for the Conservative | :07:29. | :07:36. | |
Party, Europe is an exstrengths issue. And we - extension issue. We | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
are in enormous change at the moment, the force of it is seizing | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
to becoming the European Union, and coming to be the eurozone, as they | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
move to having their own central finance and integrate more as the | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
political force in Europe, we have an opportunity to bring powers back | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
from Europe, and to have a relationship with which the | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
Conservative Party and the country would be much more comfortable. | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
don't think David Cameron gets that? I think David Cameron | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
understands that, and I think we have an extraordinary, and really | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
historic opportunity coming up. do you suggest he's not listening | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
to you on that? What I hope will happen is we will take that | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
opportunity to bring powers back from the EU and choose a | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
relationship, where we, to a much greater extent, govern ourselves. | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
In the way that Switzerland or norway have that free trading | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
relationship with the EU, but make their own decisions. We are | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
familiar with those arguments, but it is wait in which you phrased it, | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
which the Prime Minister himself thought was quite ingenious, are | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
you worried that he is making too many concessions to the Liberal | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
Democrats? I think my major one, I have a worry on Europe, I also have | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
a worry on the way the coalition is working. I think it is reempowering | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
the Mandarins, it has reempowered Whitehall, there are many issues | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
where I agree with the Liberal Democrats, and I want to see a | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
radical decentralisation of power, and I believe in localism, and | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
where the Whitehall Mandarins are unprepared to let go of power. | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
don't suppose in your entire political life, people ever said | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
Liberal Democrats are too powerful, shock, that is what the grumbling | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
is among some Conservative backbenchers? It is a sue Neil | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
Kinnock experience. Is it true - is a unique experience. Some of our | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
viewers are saying that it suits both parties to pretend it is going | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
on, it suits the Conservatives to pretend they are listening and it | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
suits you to pretend you are tough. We do have influence, we have | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
become more assertive as everyone has got used to the way in which | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
coalitions can work. And we will fight for the things that we | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
believe in. We won't overplay our hand, but we want fairer taxes. We | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
will focus, not on cutting taxes for the wealthy, but on cutting tax | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
for people on low and middle incomes. We will get the tax | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
thresholds up to �10,000 by the end of the parliament. That is | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
something the Liberal Democrats will deliver in Government. Do you | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
see the point that was implicit in some of the report there, that if | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
it work, the Conservatives will get the credit because they are | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
listening and listening to you, you won't? There is a risk, of course, | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
this is the first time we have done coalition since the Second World | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
War in this country. We're all learning. But I think what we have | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
to do, is we have to be responsible in Government, people want stable | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
Government, and actually this coalition, at a very, very | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
difficult time for this country, has provided stability. We will | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
work constructively, where there are disagreements we will debate. | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
The relationships are much more functional, than a single party | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
Government, as has come out from Emmanuel Darley's memoir, the | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
relationship - Alastair Darling's memoirs. The relationship at the | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
heart was much more professional, it has played out more in public | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
recently, but we will fight for that. How far do you think the | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
Prime Minister is closer to Nick Clegg in some of these policies | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
than to you? I think the Prime Minister and Nick Clegg are close. | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
I think the problem with the coalition is it works at the top, | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
but the quad and Nick Clegg can't take every decision. The quad, to | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
explain, Clegg, Cameron, Alexeneder and Osborne. There, it is | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
interesting, you have two Liberal Democrats, two Tories, the top | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
people, that is 50% influence for the Liberal Democrats and they have | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
9% influence in parliament. But six million voters and 23% of the vote | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
of the last election. The share of MPs in parliament is a bit | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
misleading. The point I wanted to make, at that level it works well. | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
Below that the messages don't feed up in a bottom-up way. When the | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
Government makes mistakes over things it can't push through, over | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
forest, it take as long time to work out. And over health that was | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
a big issue, a lot of Conservatives had a lot of concerns about. That | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
we went through the whole of the committee and only decided to go it | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
all again. That is a good point, both parties have to work harder at | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
engaging backbenchers, and making sure they feel engaged in the | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
process of Government. In that sense, how many of your fellow | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
backbenchers share those kind of concerns? Let me give you an | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
example, we were talking about police commissioners, I was | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
involved several years ago in developing our policy of a directly | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
elected individual. The Liberal Democrats called for directly | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
elected police authorities. We have compromised on a directly elected | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
individual with panel of local councillors to provide oversight. | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
But, unfortunately, the substantive power, with regards to the budget | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
setting, isn't exercised by either of those bodies, the decision | :13:02. | :13:10. | |
whether to call a referendum. There is a fudge to a degree, that may up | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
in - end up in the courts. The precept is not held by the panel, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
as I thought the Liberal Democrats would want, but with the Secretary | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
of State. When I tried to put that issue I was told I couldn't because | :13:22. | :13:29. | |
the Liberal Democrats wouldn't wear it. I put forward an amendment, and | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
I get Liberal Democrats' support for that, who would much prefer the | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
panel overseeing the budget setting rather than referring up to the | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
Secretary of State. That is still in the bill, because the mand drins | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
are having what they want. They are keeping power in the Home Office | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
and the Whitehall, what we would like is to see the power pushed | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
down to the lowest possible level. Because of the structure of the | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
coalition. You have to be careful how you play this, in the end you | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
don't want, the Prime Minister could call a general election at | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
any time, and we haven't fixed parliaments yet, we you have to be | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
careful? We have to have play our hand, and we can't overplay it. If | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
you negotiate properly in Government, and you reach agreement, | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
and then you move on. And I think the great thing about the coalition | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
agreement, actually, is it provides an accountability for both parties. | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
I think, you know, this is a real challenge to the old tribal | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
politics we have been used to in this country. The idea you can work | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
together with people from a different political tradition is a | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
good thing. I think actually the public will find they like the | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
results of it. Thank you very much. | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
Now, tomorrow night Newsnight will have a specially extended edition, | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
live from New York, as we approach the 10th anniversary of the | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
September 11th attacks. Kirsty is there now. There is an atmosphere | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
of reflection here in New York and indeed in the wider America, as we | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
approach this weekend. America's reaction after the attacks still | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
resonating around the world. One of the key players in the Bush | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
administration, who helped define America's response, and sold the | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
war in Iraq to the UN, is Colin Powell, Secretary of State at the | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
time of the attacks. Today, in Washington, he spoke to our | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
diplomatic editor, Mark Urban, about the impact of 9/11, saying | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
the attacks were almost on a par with World War II, and Pearl Harbor. | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
Clearly there was an initially a great outpouring of support from | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
global organisations, world leaders, but I think as time went on, some | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
people began to snipe from the margins, perhaps bs, sometimes over | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
the choice of lan - perhaps, sometimes over the choice of | :15:38. | :15:45. | |
language. The President quickly coined the "war on terror" phrase, | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
and at one sage the word "crusade" being used. To what extent, you | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
doing the international diplomacy, that the language was a hindrance | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
to you? The President had many audiences to deal with. The | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
international audience, principally my responsibility, but he had an | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
outraged population. He had 300 million Americans, who saw what | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
happened to thousands of their fellow citizen and we didn't know | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
what else might be coming. So we had to make sure there was not | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
another attack. But I think the President's choice of words were | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
necessary for that moment. To tell the American people that this is an | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
attack, that almost rises to the level of World War II and Pearl | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
Harbor. To mobilise them, to go after this enemy, as if it was a | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
war like World War II. I don't object to that language, the word | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
"crusade" was used once, then we realised let's not do that one | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
again, it creates the wrong sort of opinion in that part of the world. | :16:48. | :16:56. | |
It was a wrong choice of words, it was not used again. Pretty soon the | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
US take military action in Afghanistan and against the Taliban | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
regime. It was a surgical type thing, with a few number of people | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
on the ground, but today we see 100,000 US troops still there. | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
Would you have conceived back then we would be here ten years later | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
with a large number of American troops committed? I wouldn't have | :17:18. | :17:25. | |
conceived is back in the fall of 2001, when we had this exciting | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
faction of very sophisticated US technology and special forces, | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
married up with people riding horses. It was the 10th century, | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
and the 21st century, and it worked. But the Taliban turned out to be | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
much more resilient and Al-Qaeda much more persistent in its | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
presence than anyone anticipated back then. | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
The invasion of Iraq was clearly a much more controversial episode, | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
certainly in Europe. Do you, though, still believe that the invasion and | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
the war was justified in the broader sense. I think we can't | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
make a determination of, that history will make that | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
determination. I'm not ducking the question. Think of it this way, a | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
terrible dictator is gone, more than that, a terrible dictatorial | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
regime is gone, Saddam Hussein is no more. Whatever concerns we may | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
have had about weapons of mass destruction, from a regime that had | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
them in the past and used them in the past, and there was no | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
guarantee they would not make them in the future or use them in future | :18:25. | :18:33. | |
to get out of sanctions, we don't have to worry about that ever again. | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
What we worry about now is will the Iraqis put together a Government | :18:37. | :18:45. | |
that is responsive tuelt people in Iraq, that takes - takes into | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
account the differences in rack, that is not influenced by outside | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
powers, although they have relations with outside power, they | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
will be free. And will it serve the needs of its people. That is what | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
we are waiting to see. The potential is there for that to | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
emerge. If that does, one could think it was worth it. It sounds | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
like you are worried at this late stage with the heavy investment of | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
life and treasure, that the Iraqi Government might veer towards Iran? | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
I didn't say that. You mentioned an outside power? Yes, I'm saying to | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
make sure that doesn't happen. I'm not saying it is going to happen. | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
It sounds like you are concerned? No, I didn't say it was going to | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
veer towards. That what I think I said was that we want to make sure | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
that a political and economic system emerges, and Government | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
emerges, that is not under the thumb of an outside power. Iran? | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
Iran, yes, Iran is the number one country I would be concerned about. | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
I didn't say it was going to be under the thumb of Iran. It is a | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
risk, in your view. Do you think American tanks riding into Baghdad | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
in that extraordinary way, hastened the Arab Spring or slowed it down? | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
It should have been a sobering moment for all of the other nations | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
in the region, who were under single person leadership and had | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
been for years. Who did not have the opportunity to elect their own | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
leaders. To some extent it might have had an effect like that. | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
you think the US is playing it about right, currently, with the | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
Arab Spring. Do you think in places like Syria there should be a | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
stronger lead from the US, how do you see the coming months | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
developing? There are still unknowns out there as to how the | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Arab Spring will play out, and differently in every single country. | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
Syria you have a dictator, who has the example of his father before | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
him, and is being extremely vicious with respect to the protestors and | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
the demonstrators. It remains to be seen, how that is going to play out. | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
I think the United States and the international community, and the UK, | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
and the United Nations, can apply more sanctions, I don't sense, from | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
my perspective, that there is any inclination of sending in military | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
force. Use sanctions and other methods to try to bring pressure on | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
the Syrian regime on President Assad, to realise that this isn't | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
going anywhere for you. Sooner or later you will find these people | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
can't be held down forever. economy is very much front and | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
centre for most Americans. Do you think with the 10th anniversary of | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
9/11, this is a place where the page can be turned, to some extent, | :21:40. | :21:48. | |
and the nation refocused on the economic priority? The nation has | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
been refocused on the economic problems for the last several years. | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
Everybody knows the real strength in this world comes from a strong | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
economy that is creating jobs for your people. We are increasingly | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
focusing on domestic issues here in the United States. This will not | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
cause us to ignore the lessons of 9/11. We are not suddenly going to | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
stop worrying about terrorists, stop thinking that Al-Qaeda, start | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
thinking that Al-Qaeda is totally defeated. It has been badly damaged, | :22:17. | :22:24. | |
but we have to remain on guard. Against the possibility of another | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
terrorist attack, even while we are fixes our economy. The US would | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
have weathered the financial crisis more easily if it hadn't spent | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
thrillions on those wars? We had to deal with Afghanistan, that is | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
where we were attacked from by Al- Qaeda. One could argue as to | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
whether or not we needed to deal with Iraq or not. It would have | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
been easy for Saddam Hussein to have avoided what happened to him, | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
and that might not have been a good thing for the world, but he could | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
have avoided it. We worked hard, and I worked hard to persuade my | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
leadership that we had to take it to the UN and see if war could be | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
avoided. Because there is always unknown consequences of a conflict. | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
But he didn't take the get-out-of- jail card we gave him. The | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
President wanted to go to war. I fully supported him. I went to the | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
UN to make the case and fully supported him from there on in. | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
Laden is dead, the US faces the crises, challenges in the region, | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
the Arab Spring, Iran, is there some sense, though, in which the | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
fact that the US ran up such huge costs in these conflicts a thing | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
that gives him the last laugh, in some awful way? You think Osama Bin | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
Laden is laughing somewhere? I just wonder whether the fact that the US | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
is in such a difficult economic position, cannot contemplate | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
engaging more fully now in the Middle East, origins Iran? This is | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
your judgment. You are making these judgments but they are not my | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
judgments. My judgment is that you are selling the United States short. | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
We have incredible wealth in this country, it is just a matter of | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
tapping into it appropriately, making sure we are investing in the | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
right things. We can do all of those things to put us back on a | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
sound financial footing and show the rest of the world that we still | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
are a model and inspiration for the rest of the world. We can also deal | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
with the challenges that might emerge from Iran and North Korea | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
and places like that. The Iranians are going to face the same | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
pressures, that all of the other countries in the region have faced. | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
I once asked the Iranian Foreign Minister on the one occasion we had | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
to chat with each other. I said what's your number one problem in | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
Iraq, trying to give him a nice easy question that gets neither of | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
us in trouble. And without hesitating in the slightest, he | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
said, we have to create 600,000 jobs a year. He didn't say anything | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
about we have to finish our nuclear programme, we have to create | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
600,000 jobs a year. They have a young, growing population that | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
needs jobs, ultimately those kinds of pressures will force changes in | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
Iran that perhaps nobody is prepared to anticipate now, but | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
will happen. I think these are historic forces at work and Iran | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
will not be immune from these forces. I can assure you that the | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
United States will be playing a role as this world emerges. General | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
Powell, thank you very much. Colin Powell talking to our | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
diplomatic editor earlier today. Since the 9/11 atrocities, the | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
authorities in New York say they have disrupted more than a dozen | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
terror plots in the state. There are real fears that Al-Qaeda could | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
try another take to coincide with the anniversary. Newsnight has been | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
given rare access to counter terrorism teams there. We have also | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
been hearing about complaints from Muslim communities about aggressive | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
tactics and allegations of entrapment, and manufactured | :25:57. | :26:07. | |
convictions. New York on high alert. | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
A city where the fear of attack, especially in the next few days is | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
real. We're worried specifically about | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
something happening on the anniversary of 9/11. New York is | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
certainly at the top of the terrorist tart list as far as this | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
country is concerned. - terrorist attack list as far as this country | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
is concerned. New York is pioneering an aggressive, in your | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
face, counter terrorism strategy. Flooding the streets with armed | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
cops, and controversially, putting informanted undercover in | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
communities. It is a strategy which has led to many arrests. But which | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
critics say has gone too far. Raising concerns over entrapment. | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
They were convicted, but it was entrapment, the Government set it | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
all up. This is entrapment, when you are setting up your own | :26:58. | :27:07. | |
American people, you didn't stumble on a cell, you created a cell. | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
Times Square, early morning. Police from across the city assemble, | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
squad cars from every precinct are given the signal to pull out. Three | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
times a day, dozens of New York City police cars surge across the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
city like this to key locations. It is a show of force, designed to | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
deter any terrorists, thinking of attacking the city. The police are | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
determined to avoid the mistakes made before 9/11, when the CIA | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
failed to pass on intelligence, which some believe may have | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
thwarted the attacks. A new commissioner was appointed, | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
who was not prepared to leave the protection of New York to others. | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
His focus is on gathering intelligence, carrying out | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
surveillance, and being seen on the streets. His concern, based on | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
intelligence, captured from Osama Bin Laden's compound, is of an | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
imminent attack. We're worried specifically about something | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
happening on the anniversary of 9/11. We saw in some of Bin Laden's | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
material that is there was discussion about the ten-year an | :28:17. | :28:25. | |
remembersry. The assertive police style is visible, even underground, | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
where heavily armed officers patrol. But there is also a less visible | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
presence. Both the NYPD and the FBI use undercover officers, and a | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
network of informants. This has led to growing criticism that they are | :28:40. | :28:50. | |
:28:50. | :29:00. | ||
spying on Muslims, and even Newburgh, 60 miles north of | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
Manhattan, a rundown town in upstate New York. Here the | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
authorities say they disrupted a major plot, involving a group of | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
local men. A hidden surveillance camera | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
catches them inspecting a surface- to-air missile in a local lock-up. | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
Another camera listens in as they talk about mounting a series of | :29:21. | :29:31. | |
:29:31. | :29:37. | ||
The first target was to be this airbase, used by military aircraft. | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
The men wanted to hit it with a surface-to-air missile. They also | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
placed, what they believed were C-4 explosive, at synagogues in New | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
York City. For the authorities, this was a deadly terrorist plot, | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
stopped in its tracks. But, for some, here in the community, it was | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
something entirely different. They question whether the men would | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
really have been capable of planning and carrying out an attack, | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
if it weren't for the encouragement of an undercover informant, working | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
secretly for the FBI. For the critics, this was a classic case of | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
entrapment. They were convicted, but it was entrapment. The | :30:16. | :30:23. | |
Government set it all up. An informant, posing as a rich | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
businessman, first appeared at this mosque in Newburgh, and immediately | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
raised concerns among worshippers. He began to talk to some of the | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
members of the community, and they would come back and say this guy is | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
talking about Jihad, and this, that and the other, we automatically | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
pleefd he was a federal agent. De- believed avenues federal agent. We | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
decided to - believed he was a federal agent. We decided to led | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
people in the community know to watch what they say. The informant | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
latched on to the man on the left, a man active in Islam, and full of | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
hatred with Jews and of the country that he lived. I'm an American | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
soldier, right here in America, that the President don't even know | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
about me. At the mosque he wasn't taken seriously. He really wanted | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
to make some money. I think that's what really captivated him and the | :31:21. | :31:31. | |
:31:31. | :31:33. | ||
others. It was a money thing. The informant, disguised in this | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
video, offered the man a quarter of a million dollars to carry out the | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
attack. With the promise of money, it wasn't difficult to find men in | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
Newburgh prepared to help. Recruited late in the plot, they | :31:43. | :31:51. | |
would be the lookouts. One of them was David Williams, his | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
aunt says he was especially vulnerable. A petty drug dealer, | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
not long out of prison, with a brother in need of expensive | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
medical treatment. These guys ain't got a passport, drivers license, | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
ain't got a pot to pis in and throw it out, they have no money. Are you | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
going to the 99 cent store to find it? The informant who told them he | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
had links to a terror group in Pakistan, supplied what the men | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
thought were C-4 explosives, the authorities insist they follow | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
careful rules when running sting operations like this. Everything we | :32:26. | :32:33. | |
do from there is carefully crafted to ensure that we are not the ones | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
encouraging the plot, all we are doing is providing the means to do | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
that, and in this a controlled way that prevent the act of terrorism | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
from happening. But Alicia McWilliams believes the whole | :32:45. | :32:53. | |
operation was built on a tissue of lies. You didn't stumble on a cell, | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
but you created a cell, it is your bombs and your C-4. They ain't got | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
no money. The tactics used here are not | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
unusual. Reportedly there have been over 200 successful terrorism | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
prosecutions, involving informants in America, since 9/11. | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
The US Attorney-General told me such methods are justified. There | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
have been claims that there has been cases of near entrapment in | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
terms of the use of informers against some of those home-grown | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
cells. Those charges have been made, I'm really confident we have | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
conducted ourselves consistent with the law. Always giving people who | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
we have come in contact with an opportunity to not go down that | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
road. They are always given the option to say I have changed my | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
mind, I don't want to engage in this terrorist act, and what we | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
have seen with the cases we have brought is people, of their on | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
volition, made the termination they wanted to commit a terrorist act. | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
But critics point to moments where the ringleader in the Newburgh case, | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
appeared to have doubts. If this informant had not been involved in | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
this cautious I guarantee you those four guys, if they were still | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
together, would be on the avenue somewhere, or on the block | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
somewhere, smoking marijuana, drinking beer and barbecue, that is | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
what they would be doing. That is what they would be doing. They were | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
the run of the mill type. That's a view rejected by the authorities, | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
who arrested the men after they planted the fake bombs, and the | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
trial jury who convicted them. Three were sentenced to 25 years in | :34:37. | :34:47. | |
:34:47. | :34:49. | ||
jail, although the judge conceded, aspects of the case were troubling. | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
This is the George Washington Bridge, very famous and very | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
critical. It is always a potential target for terrorists. Despite the | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
growing criticism, New York's authorities believe their tactics | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
work, and are vital, so long as the city remains top of the terrorist | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
target list. There is no question about it that New York is safer | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
than it was ten years ago, but there are no guarantees. We don't | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
know what we don't know, and we are doing everything that I believe we | :35:18. | :35:26. | |
can do, to protect the city, but it is a dangerous world. The takes a | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
decade ago traumatised New York, and those in charge of preventing a | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
return to Ground Zero, do not want to be accused of not doing enough. | :35:34. | :35:43. | |
However controversial some of their measures might be. | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
That's all from us in New York tonight. Join us here tomorrow for | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
our special edition of Newsnight to coincide with the anniversary. We | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
will hear from Donald Rumsfeld, and the famous known unknown, and we | :35:57. | :36:07. | |
will discuss the way 9/11 changed America with Carl Bernstein and our | :36:07. | :36:14. | |
other guests. Imagine if you can, switching on | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
the television and discovering the man you married as a teenager turns | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
out to be a murder of young women. That is what happened to Cathy when | :36:22. | :36:32. | |
:36:32. | :36:33. | ||
she married Tobin, the killer. She explains how she escaped his sights. | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
This is her first-ever broadcast interview. | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
Murderer, rapist, abuser, abducter and husband and father. Over the | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
course of three deck taids, Peter Tobin committed acts that would see | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
him jailed on three life sentences. His past is dark and complicated. A | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
childhood in Glasgow's Young Offenders Institute, married twice | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
in his 20s. In 1986 he met Cathy Wilson, three years later they | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
married, Tobin now in his 30s, Cathy still a teenager. They had a | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
son Daniel and they lived briefly in Bathgate in Scotland, before | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
Cathy managed to leave him. Not long afterwards, the schoolgirl | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
Vicky Hamilton goes missing from a bus stop in Bathgate. Six months | :37:20. | :37:28. | |
later, another teenager Dina McNichol goes missing from a music | :37:28. | :37:35. | |
festival in Hampshire. Dinah McNichol if you are watching go to | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
the phone and your father and family are waiting to hear if you | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
are well. Cathy and the wider public are still in the dark. | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
Meanwhile Daniel is growing up and still making occasional visits to | :37:48. | :37:55. | |
see his father. During one such visit Tobin drugs and rapes two 13- | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
year-old girls and goes on the run. That same year Peter Tobin is | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
brought to justice, and sentenced to 14 years, although he service | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
only nine. On his early release he heads to Glasgow and takes up | :38:12. | :38:19. | |
refuge at St Patrick's church, where he murders a young polish | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
student. He's finally sentenced for that murder and his years of | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
deception begin to unravel. Police are led to his home and find the | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
bodies of two women. Cathy gets a call from her aunt to turn on the | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
television. She realised the man she married, divorced and feared | :38:38. | :38:45. | |
for so many years, indeed a serial killer lt Cathy, you met Pete - | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
killer. Cathy, you met Peter Tobin in 1986, what were you and he like | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
at the time? He was very charming, with very exotic tales of fighting | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
in the army. He said he was at Aden, he said he worked on the oil rigs, | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
and it all seemed a world away from my lifestyle at the time. He gave | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
me lots of attention, that made me feel very special. Generally, no | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
flowers or dinner, nothing quite as nice as that. | :39:13. | :39:21. | |
Why did you marry him? I had my son, my son was nine months old at this | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
point. It was quite important for me for my son to have a strong | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
father figure in his life, I hadn't had one, my father wasn't on the | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
scene growing up. Peter suggested it, and I thought it was a great | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
idea. My son would then not be out of wedlock, I thought that was | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
important for me to do. When did you start to see through him and | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
see through the stories he told you? I hadn't seen through any of | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
the stories at all, it wasn't until 1994 when I was called into the | :39:52. | :40:02. | |
:40:02. | :40:05. | ||
police station with reference to the two girls that he had assaulted. | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
The police officer at the time said to me do you know anything about | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
this man, I said yes, yes, he fought in Aden and on disability | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
benefit because he had shrapnel in his wrist and head, and he worked | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
on the oil rigs. He said he hadn't done any of those things at all, | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
that was the first time I found out about it. You mentioned the police | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
contacted you because of the assault on these two young girls, | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
they were two 13-year-old girls raped by Tobin? Yes, I know. When | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
you learned that, how did you feel about that? I was sitting in it the | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
police station, I was saying this can't be right, it can't be this | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
man that has done this. Absolutely not, it is not the man I know. | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
However violent he had been towards me in my life, it was towards me | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
and not towards young girls. They said no-one of the girls has | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
managed to regain consciousness and confirmed it was him. That is when | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
everything came out. I helped the police as much as I could to | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
suggest where he might have been hiding. Eventually in one of the | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
places I suggested they found him six weeks later. Your son Daniel | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
was in the same house, even though he didn't witness what went on? | :41:12. | :41:18. | |
transpired he lured the girls into the house under the premise they | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
would babysit for Daniel in the evening. When he got there he must | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
have offered them an introductor glass of something which has been | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
drugged. Because the police said there was copious amounts of | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
alcohol and drugs in their system. So Daniel was the lure to get the | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
girls to go into the house, at one point in the evening he was in his | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
bedroom. At one point in the evening he called Daniel to bring | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
ice from the kitchen into the room, because there was blood and he | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
wanted to stem the flow of blood. Daniel was in the room for two | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
minutes, and thankfully went back out again. I don't know how a man | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
can do that to his own son, really. How did you play you and Daniel? | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
was at home with him and I said I really think this relationship is | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
failing and we need a divorce, and he picked up Daniel, took him to | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
the stop of the staircase, and threatened to throw him down the | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
stairs, he said you will never ever leave me, at all. And I could see | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
in his eyes he really meant it. From that moment on, until I | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
managed to escape three months later, he didn't leave my side. | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
Then moving forward to 2006, you got the real shock of switching on | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
the television. Tell me about that. My aunt phoned me up and said turn | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
the television on now. I turned it on and there was Peter Tobin's face. | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
It was a shock and disbelief, shock because I hadn't seen this face for | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
12 years. Having been released early once, he was released early a | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
second time? I know, and this wouldn't have been killed if he | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
hadn't been released early. Released two years early. How does | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
that make you feel? Sick, really, this is a completely unnecessary | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
death. Completely unnecessary death. I fully think our judicial system | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
is wrong. I think if you get given a sentence that is what the judge | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
feels you should be paying the price with. I think it is | :43:07. | :43:13. | |
completely inappropriate you don't do it, it doesn't make sense to me | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
giving someone 14 years and then coming out after eight. If he had | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
completed the 14 years there would be one other girl still alive. | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
the police started to investigate where the bodies were buried and if | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
there were even more murders? believe the crimes have been so | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
severe, the murders so awful, all murders are awful, but particularly | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
vicious, that you don't get to his age committing that without having | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
done anything before. They are reinvestigating the whole of his | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
life. Even though they are looking to see. Because there have been | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
some suggestions that he may have murdered many, many more people? | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
Apparently, I have heard through the police source that is he has | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
been bragging in prison that he may have been responsible for 48. | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
Murders? Yeah. When you look on that. Could you see a pattern now, | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
could you think of things in the past, in your past relationship | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
with Tobin, that might have, perhaps, set off alarm bells, | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
things that might have triggered you to think differently about him | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
at the time? I have vague memories and flashbacks of various | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
inappropriate situations of women coming and going, but it is really | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
the police filling in the spaces. Peter Tobin's drug of choice is his | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
medication drug, which he has used for all of his victims. Apparently | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
it is a heavy sedative, so they feel it is reasonable to assume he | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
was giving me some of these drugs on an evening basis. You were not | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
aware of that? I didn't drink when my son was young, a drop, it was | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
definitely not an alcohol thing, there were evenings I didn't | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
remember at all. I was asked did he go out in the evenings to casino, I | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
said he never left the house in the evenings, they said no, he has a | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
gambling habit going to the casinos on a regular basis, I had no idea. | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
That appears to be the thing of using drugs, assaulting young women | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
and murdering them, he appears to have tried out something like that | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
with you? When I had his son, I changed in his eyes from being a | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
potential victim to being a possession. I think that's why I'm | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
still alive. But he still wanted to practice his techniques. Do you | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
think having Daniel, having your son saved you? Without a shadow of | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
a doubt. I directly fit the profile of everything, every other girl | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
that he has been associated with in any form, and I really don't think | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
I should be here today. There is already devastation for | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
five families, there will be a lot more to come out. If makes me feel | :45:55. | :46:02. | |
sick thatman man ever touched me. A quick look at tomorrow morning's | :46:03. | :46:12. | |
:46:13. | :46:35. | ||
That's all from Newsnight, tomorrow the 9/11 anniversary programme from | :46:35. | :46:42. | |
New York. We will leave you with the court pictures for the latest | :46:42. | :46:49. | |
battle between the Prime Minister and the mayor! To mark National | :46:49. | :46:59. | |
:46:59. | :47:22. | ||
# Anyone for tennis, wouldn't that be nice. | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
It is a really mild night out there, it will be a warm day on Friday. | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
Particularly where we get some sunshine. We start fairly cloudy | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
with rain in northern England and southern Scotland. That slowly | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
clears, it lingers in northern Scotland, however, elsewhere, bar | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
one or two scattered showers, most places looking dry. It is in | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
eastern areas where we will see things brightening up to reveal | :47:43. | :47:50. | |
sunshine. In the low 20s, 23, or 24 in one or two places. The south | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
coast could be grey, misty in the beaches of South-West England. A | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
bit of brightness is possible, chiefly to the north-east of the | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
moors. Same in Wales, mostly cloudy, a few scattered showers, generally | :48:01. | :48:07. | |
dry. A bit of brightness, sunny spells to the north-east. It should | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
brighten up in Wales, it could easily reach 20 degrees. Slowly | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
brightening up in central Scotland. The far north a wet old day. On | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
Saturday another band of rain working across Northern Ireland. | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
That will be fold by showers. Crucially t will also - followed by | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
showers, crucially it will bring showers in the eastern area. | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
24 in London maybe, elsewhere it will turn blustery with lots of | :48:34. | :48:37. |