Browse content similar to 13/09/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The crisis with the euro is as bad as ever it has been and tomorrow | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
may come the critical intervention which could save it or sink it. | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
As Europe's leaders get ready to teleconference their way out of the | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
conference, which button will they press. | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
I will be asking the German Government what they intend to do. | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
Trades unionists are underwhelmed by the Labour leader. I do believe | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
it was a mistake for strikes to happen last summer. Shame! | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
continue to believe that. What is the state of the Labour | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
Party's relationship with its pay masters. | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
As Palestine appeals to the world for place at the UN what are the | :00:44. | :00:51. | |
chances of success? Can scientific fact ever inspire | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
the same affection as religious stories. Richard Dawkins goes myth | :00:54. | :01:04. | |
:01:04. | :01:08. | ||
Good evening, the convention in news programmes is that rereport | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
what's happened, but these are unconventional turbulent times, and | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
frankly, we don't know what is going on. Something is up, though, | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
with the euro. Rumours have swirled all day about the Greeks defaulting | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
on their debt, big French banks in trouble, and the Germans | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
manoeuvring towards some sort of operation that might save the | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
currency, for now, at least. Here is the best guess of our economics | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
editor, Paul Mason. There is rumours because the French started | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
the day by announcing, briefing journalists, that they were going | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
to make a big announcement about the future of Greece. Then they | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
didn't. There will be something tomorrow. But there has been | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
frantic private diplomacy all day between Greece, France, the USA, | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
President Obama coming out and saying in public, Europe get your | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
act together, you are pulling the rest of the economy down. It has | :02:00. | :02:08. | |
all been occasion. Greece needs 8 billion euros, from the big bailout | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
last May. The Europeans and the IMF decided it say unless you do X, Y | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
and Z, you are not getting anything. This created the stand-off, going | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
on for the last couple of week. It is coming to head, we have two days | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
to do the deal. Meanwhile, bank shares are tumbling, specific EU | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
banks looking pretty precarious. Tomorrow, they have decided there | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
will be a teleconference between Merkel, Sarkozy and the Greek Prime | :02:35. | :02:44. | |
Minister, Andropov, and boy, would all us economics - economists like | :02:44. | :02:52. | |
to be in that teleconference. won't be press 1 for default and 2 | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
for austerity, there aren't many options beyond that. The French, | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
Greek and German leaders will speak tomorrow knowing they are running | :03:05. | :03:13. | |
out of time. Today, Germany's leader met Finland's leader to sort | :03:13. | :03:20. | |
out a little local difficulty. The Fins are so worried Greece will | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
default on the bailout, they want security from Europe. Just one part | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
of the malaise of back tracking and indecision. To the wider world, | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
Angela Merkel's message was, stop talking about a Greek default. She, | :03:34. | :03:44. | |
of course, is worried about nothing else. | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
TRANSLATION: We have to always consider that everything we do is | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
controlled. That we know the consequences. Because otherwise we | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
can very quickly have a situation in the eurozone that we do not want, | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
and which will have very difficult consequences for all of us. | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
Today, in Greece, the taxi drivers went on strike, and marched, over | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
the weekend there have been riots. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister, here | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
pictured on a coffin, had to slap down an emergency 2 billion euro | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
property tax, because EU negotiators threatened to walk away | :04:22. | :04:29. | |
from talks on the next round of the bailout. For Greek budget deficit, | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
it is on track to be 9.5% of GDP, worse than expected and worse than | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
demand by the bailout deal, because Greek GDP is shrinking, but Greece | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
needs 8 billion euros this week, the latest tranche of bailout money | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
that is being held, without it, it only has money to pay its bills | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
until October. Some believe the euro won't be out of crisis, until | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
Greece is out of the euro. I think it is inevitable that Greece will, | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
in due course, be ejected, or choose itself, to leave. You can't | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
have a more coherent long-term solution for the eurozone until you | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
have bitten that bullet and got the Greeks to leave. In July the idea | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
of a Marshall Plan for Greece, modelled on USA to Europe in 1948 | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
made it so far as a draft EU declaration, the Brits got it | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
removed. But now, senior German figures are behind the scenes, | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
urging Germany to do just that. Rebuild the Greek economy, with | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
German money. But it is not flavour of the month. | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
The problem is, that once you come up with the big master plan to | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
solve the crisis once and for all, the other countries, on the | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
periphery, the Spain, the Italys or the Irelands, would have an | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
incentive to just rely on French- German leadership and relax their | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
own efforts to actually shape up. As Greece slides, Italy is drawn | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
into the zone of danger. Italy and Spain are relying on the European | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
Central Bank, funded by Germany, to keep their own debts managable. But | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
when Italy had to raise a new loan today t came at the highest-ever | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
interest rate in the Euro-era, 5.6 per cent. Even at that price, China | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
declared it would start buying Italian debt, though not, one | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
suspects, out of solidarity with the Italian Communists. The euro | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
got a decent lift out of this news that China was going to come in and | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
buy Italian debt. Or there is suspicion that is it will, it was | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
so short lived. I think really the market is now at the point where it | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
is looking beyond what can we do to help Italy and Greece, to really | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
the next chapter in this whole huge sorry mess. | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
One idea gaining traction is for Brussels to create a new fund, to | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
move tax-payers' money from the north to the south, modelled on the | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
EU structural fund, but for euro countries only. Here is the | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
advantage? Many of the schemes people have talked about in | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
financial markets, seem to me to be non-starters, precisely because | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
they are associated with the Germans taking on numbers in the | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
thrillions of additional debt. The kind of thing which I'm talking | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
about is numbers in the low billions of annual transfers. So | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
I'm talking about switching mind set to thinking we can find a | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
solution that works within the find of framework we already have, | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
taking those things a little bit further. But that, of course s a | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
long-term commitment, rather than a sticking plaster solution where you | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
pretend the problem will all go away by the day after tomorrow. | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
It But, time is important. Tomorrow's big teleconference means | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
we are moving beyond the summit stage to crunch time for Greece. | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
Paul s there any evidence that European politicians are about to | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
have a wholesale change of mind? they do it will be a pretty big one. | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
They have philosophically nailed their colours to the mast. That the | :07:53. | :07:59. | |
euro, equals the EU, equals the internal market. Mr Romano, last | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
week, made the claim, that without the euro, the internal market would | :08:04. | :08:14. | |
fall apart in a crisis. It is a long way from that in seeing one | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
member leave. You have started to see in Germany opposition | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
politicians talking about default, and talking about it. You have also | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
started seeing figures in the background of German politics | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
saying we could do this Marshall Plan, we could draw a line under | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
our post-war history by putting our hands in our pockets and saving | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
Greece T will come down what-to- what the German people tell their | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
elected - it will come down to what the German people tell their | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
elected leaders to do. From all this back room activity, I can tell | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
it is not far away. Here to chew this over from Germany, is Peter | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
Altmaier, Chief Whip of Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
getting German MPs to vote for bailout. Joining us also is a Greek | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
journalist, and here in the studio, Terry Smith, chief executive of the | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
currency brokers. Mr Altmaier, do you know what will happen tomorrow? | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow. We have a clear idea | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
today what we have to do. The world economy is in a critical condition. | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
It means we have a certain responsibility to be very firm and | :09:24. | :09:31. | |
very clear about what we intend to do, and our aim is clear, we want | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
to preserve the euro, we want to avoid recession on a worldwide | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
scale. That means we want to keep Greece inside the euro, and we want | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
to help Greece overcoming the crisis. But, of course, the Finance | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
Minister, said, if necessary, Greece should be allowed to just go | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
bust? The Chancellor made it clear that public talking about default | :09:57. | :10:05. | |
is not a good idea. We have a mission under way in Greece, we | :10:05. | :10:12. | |
will see whether Greece will make the required efforts to achieve | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
more stability culture in a sustainable way, and we are | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
prepared to help Greece overcoming the problems. We still think the | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
best solution would be to avoid default. But this is something, of | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
course, that has to be discussed and not publicly, but if the mind | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
is clear to overcome the crisis. How do you think this will solve | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
itself? I think Greece will leave the euro and it is going to default. | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
I don't know what will happen in the meantime, but it is detail. | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
Greece is running a higher deficit than planned, that will continue, | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
nothing practical can be done to prevent that. The analogy I would | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
give you is Germany is like a well- to-do parent that has allowed her | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
child out with a platinum credit card, drawn on their account. And | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
they will bankrupt themselves in the efforts to save Greece f they | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
have the political will to do so. As a representative of this | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
irresponsible child, why should the Germans keep on bailing out Greece? | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
Well, first of all, I'm not a representative of the Greek | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
Government. But, the problem is, I think, we are fixating a little too | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
much on Greece. I understand that of course it captures the | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
imagination and our imagination as journalists, but what we are not | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
talking about is the other peripheral and not so peripheral | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
countries like Italy that are in a lot of trouble. We are not talking | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
right now about the structural and design problems with the common | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
currency, and what we are not talking about is why we are doing | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
all of this, and why we are doing all of this, is across the | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
continent banks are undercapitalised, it is banks going | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
bust first if Greece defaults. you think Greece is a special case? | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
Yes, Greece is certainly a special case, in so far as the economic | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
problems of Greece are much worse than in all the other countries | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
concerned. There are problems with the banks, certainly in other | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
European countries as well. But mistakes have been made in Greece | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
over a number of years, and this has to be repaid, it cannot be | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
repaid in a short time, but what we need is a clear cut commitment from | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
the Greek Government to change things profoundly, to organise a | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
better administration, to privatise public enterprises. This is a very | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
important gesture, we know it is not easy to do. But the monitoring | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
Troika from the EU will report on this, and this will be the basis | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
for the further decisions on how to proceed with the rescue package for | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Greece. Perhaps the leopard will change its spots, if it were going | :13:04. | :13:13. | |
to do so, would we not have seen some evidence by now? Well, I'm, of | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
course, not a representative of the Government, and I'm just the Chief | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
Whip in parliament. My impression is that we are in a critical stage | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
right now. There are so many are you mores, so many diverging | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
interests in this debate and what we have to do is as politicians is, | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
we have to be clear, and I come back to what the Greek colleague | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
has said, the euro, so far, was a big success story, and we, as | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
politician, should be aware, if one country would have to leave the | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
euro, it could have devastating effects for the rest of the | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
European Union, and therefore, we should consider very carefully what | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
we are doing as the next step. What do you think the Greek | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
Government will do next? Well, I mean, to be very honest with you, | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
there is very little they can do. What they have been doing badly is | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
adhering to those targets and implementing those reforms, and it | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
is perfectly understandable that Governments and tax-payers who | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
actually pay up, for these bailouts, demand results. What needs to be | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
said, however, is as has been mentioned, Greece haz been | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
mismanaged for so many years, that many of the problems are deeply | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
rooted within the country and its economy. So reform is a little | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
slower to come. And I would argue that evidence of the shock therapy | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
Greece has been undergoing for the last year-and-a-half, is the | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
recession the country is in. It is reaching 7.3% this quarter. These | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
are unprecedented figures for a eurozone country. So, unfortunately, | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
a big chunk of the Greek population are paying up. They are footing the | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
bill for mismanagment that they did not cause, they are, in a way, | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
asking for help, support, solidarity, so we can continue to | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
enjoy all the benefits of the euro, and enjoyed across the eurozone, in | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Germany as well as in Greece. the meantime, Terry Smith, we have | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
the prospect of this particular YuriGagarino50 Euro-crisis becoming | :15:25. | :15:35. | |
:15:35. | :15:40. | ||
a big bank this euro crisis? If we support Greece it will mean all the | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
other countries in the periphery, but ones who have similar debt | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
problems, none of which are complying with the austerity | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
programme, if it costs so much they will bankrupt Germany, if you don't | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
do it, you are left with the problem that the banks in certain | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
countries, most particularly France, have bought so much debt off these | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
countries that they will be bankrupted. Whichever way you jump | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
it will be very bad. What's going to happen? Greece will leave the | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
euro and default, I don't think it will rest with Greece. That's a | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
superficial and easy solution there, I'm sorry, but it is the obvious | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
thing to say, Greece will default and leave the euro, you have made | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
an eloquent and intelligent argument about the | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
interconnectiveness of banks and economies across the eurozone, | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
would it not be a concern for you what it would mean if Greece left | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
the euro, setting a precedent for other countries perhaps in the | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
future, to leave the euro, in the near future as well, and what the | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
ramifications of such a thing would be for the global economy, having | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
one of the main currencies of the global economy completely | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
destablised. I go back to what I said. Hang on a skebgd second. | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
There is no painless way out of this, whatever way you go will | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
cause pain, the longer you leave it will be more painful. The longer | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
you leave a child with a credit card, the worse it will be with you. | :17:14. | :17:24. | |
:17:24. | :17:24. | ||
Hang on a second. I must join my Greek colleague. It would, in my | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
eyes, some how be irresponsible to say the Greeks should leave the | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
euro, no singer problem could better be solved if Greek left the | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
eurozone. The amount of Greek debt in Europe would double, when the | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
Greek currency would be devalued, rapidly. We could not help, as we | :17:46. | :17:52. | |
can do it right now, and the second point is as soon as Greece would | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
leave the eurozone, there would be an enormous speculation about the | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
next candidates for default, this is something we have to avoid by | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
building a firewall across Europe, we have to develop the instruments, | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
the tools, in a tool box that we need, and for the time being, we | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
should dare, as politicians, to be firm, and not to respond to | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
speculation, but to do what we have announced and what we have promised | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
over so many weeks and months. We will look forward to seeing what | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
happens tomorrow then. The public don't seem to know much | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
about him, but the trades unions do, to judge by today's reception of Ed | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
Miliband at the TUC conference, plenty of them don't much care for | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
what they know. Plans will be laid for what I suppose is called a | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
winter of discontent. As the unions try to organise strikes protesting | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
against public spending cuts. The unions effectively gave the junior | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
Miliband victory over his brothers in the race for the Labour | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
leadership. When he told them today that strikes over public sector | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
pensions were a mistake, they jeered him. | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
Every politician wants to be loved, right? | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
Better by far to get cheered in happy adoration, than face a | :19:10. | :19:18. | |
barrage of angry cat calls. The unthinkable happened, they | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
booed him. Ceausescu was dumb struck, well, not necessarily, not | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
if you are this man, in front of the TUC conference. It is our job | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
to...Tho They are not. They are not continuing. | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
A few boos from the unions wouldn't have hurt Ed Miliband's feelings | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
today one little bit. It was proof, say his supporters, that he's no | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
union puppet, no Red Ed, he is, they say, distinctly, his own man. | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
There are times when you and I will disagree. You will speak your mind, | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
and so will I. But, our link is secure enough, mature enough, to | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
deal with disagreement. Because the relationship between party and | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
unions, for me, is not about romance, or nostalgia, it is about | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
respect and shared values. What drew the heckles, well, firstly, a | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
condemnation from the Labour leader of the recent public sector strikes. | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
So I fully understand why millions of decent public sector workers are | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
angry, but while negotiations were going on, I do believe it was a | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
mistake for strikes to happen last summer. | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
I continue to believe that. Shame. But what we need now is meaningful | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
negotiation, to prevent further confrontation over the autumn. | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
Mr Miliband didn't win many friends in the hall by praising non-local | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
authority-run schools. Let me just tell you, let me tell you about my | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
experience of academies, I have two in my own constituency, they have | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
made a big difference to educational standards in my | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
constituency, that is my local experience. I'm sorry people say | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
"shame", I care about the kids in my constituency, and they have made | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
a big difference, it has made a big difference to kids in my | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
constituency. Critics of the link between the | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
trades unions and the Labour Party sometimes fail to appreciate is | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
that it was actually the unions that set up the Labour Party in the | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
first place. To better represent their interests. | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
However, what supporters of this link can sometimes not quite grasp | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
is just how bad it can look to the increasingly large proportion of | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
the British population who aren't in a trade union. | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
Labour Party strategists worked out a long time ago, you can't actually | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
win a British general election by simply tailoring your message to | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
the people who come to an event like this. | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
One Labour Party report has identified the commuter belt around | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
London as crucial, if Labour wants to regain power. But here, | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
according to polling, voters have a particularly hostile attitude to | :22:07. | :22:17. | |
:22:17. | :22:36. | ||
unions. When asked, for example, if . The author of that report is the | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
Labour frontbencher, gartreth Thomas. One of the concerns I | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
identified in the pamphlet I wrote is the concerns some in the | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
commuter belt, some of those in the swing voters who were concerned | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
about the way trade unions are operated. That is what Labour has | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
to take into account when we consider our appeal to the | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
electorate going forward. Changing perceptions for Labour | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
might prove difficult. The most recent figures show that the unions | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
gave Labour over 90% of its money. And a new study budgets that the | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
unions had a huge influence on Ed Miliband's election as leader of | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
the party, to the point where, according to academic, it couldn't | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
have been considered a free and fair contest. We don't really know | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
what would have happened under another set of rules. Ed Miliband's | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
team might have fought a different campaign. We do know, and we can be | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
fairly certain, is these features of the electoral college are | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
problematic in the way they operate. They look back to the days of union | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
block votes. That is why we are talking in the research about | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
reinventing the block vote. The way the unions operated gave them the | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
capacity to shape the result in the kind of way they would have done in | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
the past. Tomorrow it is expected that the big public sector unions | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
will announce that they intend to ballot on strike action for later | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
this year. If the strikes do materialise, well it can only put | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
further strain on Labour and its links with the unions. | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
The leaders of the big unions affiliated to the Labour Party, | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
Unison, Unite, the GMB, couldn't drag themselves away from the | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
Congress in central London to be here tonight, but shadow Business | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
Secretary, John Denham could, he's here. Can you support strikes this | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
winter? The important thing is to look at the issues people are | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
arguing about. We know people don't go on strike unless they have real | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
concerns. On the other hand it is rarely the most important question, | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
whether Labour supports the strike. What we need to look at, with | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
public sector pensions for example, is why hasn't the Government got a | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
proper negotiated deal. You think these changes are wrong? Will you | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
support strike action this winter? If we think the changes are wrong | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
and we think the Government isn't negotiating properly, we will say | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
so. I won't get dragged into a secondary issue about whether | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
Labour supports a strike that hasn't even happened. Ed Miliband | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
said the changes are wrong? What he said last summer is he thought the | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
strikes were wrong. He said the way the Government is going about it is | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
wrong. He says there is case for change in pension, but it needs to | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
be properly negotiate. Our role, as the Labour Party, is not to start | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
saying, oh yes, we will or won't support a strike, it is to say let | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
as have proper negotiations between the Government and the unions. | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
There are real issues here for working people, and real issues | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
about pension that is have to be sorted out. The answer to the | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
question, will you support strikes this winter, is, you haven't | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
decided yet? Answer to the question is what we will do is focus on the | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
real issue that affects working people, and the best way of | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
resolving it. The worst thing that can happen. You think that is | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
leadership do you? The worst thing that can happen is for everybody to | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
say what really matters is whether Labour is for origins a strike. | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
What really matters is getting the right result on the issue. That is | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
where we should be, and that is where we will be. When Len | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
McCluskey of Unite, talk about civil disobedience is that | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
legitimate or not? We wouldn't countenance anything outside the | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
law. You would be against civil disobedience? Anything outside the | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
law we are against. We are not against lots of different | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
organisations getting involved. Everybody has to conduct themselves | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
inside the law in this country, otherwise you are in a terrible | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
state. The legal strike you are still undecided about? It is not a | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
matter of being undecided, it is a matter of saying that is not the | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
big issue of the this is a hugele cha eng facing the country, what do | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
do you about public sector pensions, it is of huge concern to millions | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
of people. What the Labour Party says about strikes isn't the big | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
question, it is getting it sorted out. The big question, this is | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
really all about the cuts, isn't it, that is what it is really about? | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
The cuts is a wider issue, it is affecting man public services. | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
Miliband said not all of the cuts would be reversed? That is true. | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
Which ones wouldn't be? What we have said overall is the deficit | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
reduction, the Government wants to get rid of the deficit in three | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
years, we think it should be halved in four years, there is tens of | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
billions of pounds of difference in what we think is a sensible rate of | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
deficit reduction. We won't have a total alternative spending plan, it | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
is impossible. We are honest to the unions, can he can't say every cut | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
should be resisted, there would be no cuts. I just asked you, sorry, I | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
haven't made myself clear, which cuts would not be reversed? You are | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
asking us to go through a list of different things. Just give us two | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
or three? In my area of responsibility I have made it clear | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
that higher education would not have been free of all cuts, but it | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
wouldn't be the �2.8 billion cuts the Tories did. If it was there - | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
if there was a cut in line it would not be the same. How many billions? | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
If you took it in proportion it is well under a billion. That would be | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
in line with the other public spending cuts. We have also said | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
that some of the adult training budget wouldn't have continued | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
under Labour. If you go across the Labour Party every single person, | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
and I'm not going to construct a huge alternative budget here, | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
Jeremy. Why not? In opposition you can't. He made a public pledged to? | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
In opposition you can't construct an entire alternative budget. What | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
Ed Miliband said today. It is hard to know what he believes, that's | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
all? What he said honestly to the unions, of course there would be | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
cuts under Labour, not the same as the Tories, but not enough to say | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
to the trade union movement there would be no cuts. Isn't the traud | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
of the - isn't the truth of the matter he's embarrassed by the fact | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
that the trade unions gave him the leadership of your party? He's | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
proud to have the support of trade union members, not bosses, but | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
members to get elected. He wants to see, as he said today, a country in | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
which trade unions...What Portion of trade unions voted in that | :29:06. | :29:14. | |
election? A disappointingly low percentage. 4%? A lot of the debate | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
about the future of the Labour Party is how the three million | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
individual trade union members who were entitled to vote, who didn't, | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
become more active in the party. Everybody recognises that is a | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
crucial part of refounding the Labour Party. So that people who | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
are very often giving money to the Labour Party, through their | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
voluntary donations, but who don't participate in any other way, are | :29:34. | :29:40. | |
much more part of our future. There is fascinating diplomatic | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
confrontation looming at the United Nations in New York. That and the | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
grumbling appendix of world politics, the Israel Palestine | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
issue has been overshald shadowed by upheavals in the rest of the | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
Arab world. The Palestinians want to be recognised as a state and are | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
going to try for it. The Israelis are horrified and want their US | :30:04. | :30:11. | |
sponsors to fight for them. September brings the world's club | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
of nations to New York. This year's general assembly opening promises | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
to be an unusually fraught affair. The club house is under renovation, | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
and there is bitter division over an application for membership. So | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
it looks like we are about to witness the biggest United Nations | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
drama for many years. Opponents of the Palestinian strategy argue it | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
could tip an already inflamed region over the brink and into war, | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
and it will bring about a confrontation between the United | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
States, the biggest done nar to the organisation, the UN, and it could | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
endanger hundreds of millions in humanitarian funding currently | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
going to the Palestinian Authority. By pushing their case to be full | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
members of the UN, the Palestinians have sought a greater role on this | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
world stage. They could get additional political and legal | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
rights out of it too. That has brought American political heavy | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
weights out in opposition, people like Colin Powell. Ultimately it | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
will have to be a peace process that provides a Palestinian state | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
that is prepared to live side-by- side in peace with Israel. Does the | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
vote coming up at the UN on Palestinian independence help or | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
hinder? My initial reaction is I don't see how that helps the | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
process. And so, I'm not sure if that is the side thing to be doing | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
now, if it doesn't help the process. If it doesn't bring the two sides | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
closer to one another, to begin negotiation, I'm not sure how | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
helpful it is. The Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, has been | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
driving the UN membership bid. It offers him a chance to take his | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
place with world leaders. But it also risks large amounts of US aid. | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
So why do it now? There is the big sense of frustration within the | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
Palestinian political classes, as well as the general at large. Add | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
to that, the second factor, the Arab Spring, and the demand by many | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
Arab citizens for their Governments to be more active, to show result, | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
have really created a situation where Abbas thought he needed to do | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
something significant, it seemed the UN rout is the only available | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
at the moment. Supporters of Israel, predictably enough, are opposing | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
the move? The best outcome, the soft landing, is a better-worded | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
resolution, a resolution that can enable us to see that there are two | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
states in homeland for the Jewish people and Israel's democratic | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
citizens, and a homeland for the Palestinians, but it is done | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
through negotiations and mutual respect. | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
Nobody knows exactly what strategy the Palestinians will pursue. But | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
there is an underlying recognition that a move in the Security Council, | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
triggering a US veto, might not be in either side's interest. The US | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
and Israel, if they can, will still stop this vote, but it is likely to | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
go ahead, and it would happen here in the general assembly, where the | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
Palestinians can usually expect a large majority. They will craft | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
their diplomatic language carefully, possibly acknowledging the two- | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
state solution approach to the Middle East. And accepting a status | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
below that of full national state ranking here. All the tension then | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
will swing to the Middle East and what happens the day after. | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
The weekend storming of the Israeli Embassy in Cairo shows the | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
pressures now upon leaders in the region. | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
At an Arab League meeting in the city, the Turkish leader has argued | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
for a tough line on the UN vote. TRANSLATION: Recognition of a | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
Palestinian state is the only way forward, it is not an option, but | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
an obligation. We should all support the rightful and legitimate | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
struggle of the Palestinian people together, and with all our might, | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
God willing, before this month is through, we will have the | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
opportunity to see Palestine at a very different status at the United | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
Nations. Some fear now that the UN drama | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
could shift the dynamics of the Arab Spring. With all those | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
demonstration that is have been going on in Cairo, and Damascus and | :34:25. | :34:33. | |
elsewhere, so far the US has not an central. After this, the American | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
veto or strong American opposition, that anti-American sentiments will | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
come to the forefront. As a by- product of this, it will become | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
more difficult for Arab Governments that want to co-operate with the | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
United States to do so. As delegates convene for the | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
general assembly, all sides are using brinkmanship, how the | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
Palestinians will push their case to upgrade their status here, is | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
still unclear. But even those who support their bid accept that its | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
effects will be unpredictable, and it could easily produce a crisis in | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
the Middle East. What are the Americans going to do? | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
Well, what they are doing is trying to forestall this at the last | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
minute. Diplomats here had been expecting that as early as this | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
evening a Palestinian draft resolution would appear, or | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
possibly tomorrow, they would then show their hand, where they go in | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
the Security Council, or the general assembly route, exactly | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
what kind of language were they using. The Americans have announced | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
this afternoon, in order to get ahead of that, that two envoy, | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
Dennis Ross and David Hale are going to the region. I think the | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
point is to stop the Palestinians introducing their draft before | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
speaking to the envoys, even if they can't stop it, they can slow | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
it down. They are trying to buy time, and if they could they could | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
stop the vote going ahead. If they fail to do that, just simply trying | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
to make the terms of any resolution less problematic from a US | :36:06. | :36:14. | |
perfective. So Israel is looking pretty isolated? Yes, it is | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
striking that until comparatively recently Israel relied on tacit or | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
sometimes even explicit diplomatic support from a number of Arab and | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
regional countries, which were considered to be supportive, pro- | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
western, if you like. Turkey and Egypt, are the key regional players, | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
that have suddenly shifted position in this. The desire to meet public | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
expectations that have been raised by the Egyptian revolution, is now | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
driving a lot of policy pronouncements from Egypt and | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
turkey. They are each trying, if you like, to put themselves at the | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
head of popular feeling in the Arab world. This is one of the reasons | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
why it is such a dangerous cocktail and why the Americans could become | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
very exposed diplomatically if they are seen to shoot this down here at | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
the UN. Give me the child and I will give | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
you the man, St Francis, the founder of the Jesuit movement is | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
said to have said. Religious movements around the world try to | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
shape the impressionable finds with fables and stories, how the world | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
began, how the first humans came and what rainbows are. The world's | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
most celebrated atheist, Richard Dawkins gives a counter blast of | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
fact. His new book, The Magic Of Reality, aims directly at children, | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
teaching them how to replace myth with science. It is illustrated by | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
the graphic artist and film director, Dave McKean. | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
Of course, no-one really believes that it would be possible to turn a | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
pumpkin into a coach, but have you ever stopped to consider why such | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
things would be impossible. You probably haven't, because from | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
our earliest years we learn to suspend disbelief. | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
And that, apparently, is also how we condition impressionable brains | :37:59. | :38:07. | |
to absorb religious hog wash. the creation myth of the Hebrew | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
tribe of the desert, the God Yaweh created light on the first six days | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
of his creation, but not the sun until the fourth day, where the | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
light came from on the first day before the sun and stars existed, | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
we are not told. Knocking down the scientific accuracy of millennia | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
old stories isn't very hard. Rainbows, earthquakes, the origins | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
of humanity, the origins of the universe itself, are all explained | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
in ways that a 10-year-old might follow, but a five-year-old might | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
not. According to the modern version of the big bang model, the | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
entire observable universe exploded into existence between 13 and 14 | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
billion years ago. Some scientists will tell you that time itself | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
began in the big bang, we should no more ask what happened before the | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
big bang than we should ask what is north of the North Pole. But there | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
in lies Richard Dawkins' problem. Even with him setting them up as | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
aunt Sally's, the myths remain the better stories, carrying an | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
imaginative charge that makes nonsense easier to understand than | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
fact. Fairytales of whatever world religion retain an untarnishable | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
beauty, more easily followed by a small and impressionable Tasmanian | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
child, for example. A God called Moin ee was defeated by a rival God | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
in a terrible battle up in the stars. Before he died he wanted to | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
give a last blessing to his final resting place, he decided to create | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
humans, but he forget to give them knee, he absent mindedly gave them | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
big tails like kangaroos. They say the devil has all the best tune, | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
but the religious elders have most of the best stories. | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
Richard Dawkins is here, you seem to implicitly believe in this, or | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
explicitly believe that rationalism is some how disadvantaged, do you | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
really think that is? Nor am I knocking myths, I just think that | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
science is better. Better stories I deny that the myths have the best | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
tunes and the best stories. deny it? Yes. I actually think that | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
science is so spellbinding. What have you got that beats the story | :40:24. | :40:30. | |
of the kangaroo? Evolution. taking evolution, you really think | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
that your version, you are very clear account of where our | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
ancestors came from, which ends up in a not very attractive looking | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
fish 185 million generations ago, as opposed to the creation myth in | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
the Bible, that God takes a handful of dusts and breathes life into it, | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
takes one of Adam's ribs and creates a woman. You think your's | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
is more poetic? No question about it, absolutely. It is wonderfully | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
poetic, when you think about it, here we are, we started off on this | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
planet, this fragment of dust spinning around the sun, and in | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
four billion years, we graduemly changed from bacteria into us, that | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
is a spellbinding story. Do you accept that it is slightly more | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
difficult for a child to comprehend? That I'm not sure about. | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
It is conventional not to teach evolution until a later age, I | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
think it could be taught at a younger age. But 185 million | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
generations, that is a difficult thing to get your head around as a | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
child? You have to employ careful strategies to do that, but I think | :41:34. | :41:42. | |
it can be done. Now, nobody believes that Lot's wife for | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
example was really turned to a pillar of salt, and you soon grow | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
out of belief in Father Christmas and the tooth fairy, are you saying | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
these things should never be taught? No, I'm not actually. There | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
is a great value in training the imagination to be imaginative. So | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
children love to make believe, for example, I did myself, I'm sure you | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
did. It is a wonderful part of growing up, to play games of make | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
believe. And part of it is comfort, isn't it, if you are told, I don't | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
want to get too much into religion. If you are told you are a unique | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
creation and made in God's image and loved, as opposed to the | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
scientific image that you are a receipty insubstantial speck in the | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
Cosmos, one is comforting, one is slightly alarming, isn't it? One is | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
false and one is true, and it is rather important to whether it is | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
alarming or not to get what is true. You can make up any number of | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
stories that are comforting, but the truth has some value as well. | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
But you accept the force, the imaginative force of comfort? | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
wouldn't stress comfort, I accept the imaginative force of certain | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
myths, and I throw in the juddaiyo Christian myth along with the myths | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
of the Tasmanians and so on, I genuinely think science is more | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
exciting and more poetic. They perform a social function too, | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
particularly the religious myths, in that they tend to make us, as | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
societies, hang together. You don't believe that, do you? It is | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
certainly, the basis of our culture, and our legal system? It is true | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
that historically religions have been the basis of our culture, but | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
it is also true they have been the basis of plenty of things not very | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
desirable. As for comfort, once again, I think I would come down to | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
what is true, and say what I would really value is the truth rather | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
than what is comforting, and the truth rather than what necessarily | :43:42. | :43:48. | |
holds societies together. This book is intended for children what, 11, | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
12? 12 and up to 100. All adults. Why can't you introduce children to | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
reality at a younger age than that? I would love to do that. Maybe my | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
next book will. This book was field tested down to about eight or seven, | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
and they got it with help from teachers. I would like to think | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
that parents could perhaps read bits of this book to seven-year- | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
olds, and 11 and 12-year-olds I hope will love to read it | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
themselves. This is the equivalent at an entire metaphysical level to | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
telling children that Father Christmas doesn't exist, isn't it? | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
I think that the truth is wonderful, I think the myths are fun. The book | :44:32. | :44:40. | |
is full of myths. Which is your favourite myth? I like the one | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
about Dromadena, it is very abusing, some of the Aztec ones are very | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
funny as well. Do you find any of them personally affecting, you | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
think, gosh what a wonderful story? Genesis is, as a story, as a myth, | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
yes. And I mean, as long as you don't think it is true. The trouble | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
is 40% of the American people think it is literally true. They probably | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
think Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt as well for that | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
matter. Do you really care that there are a lot of stupid people | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
around? I do, I really do. I care that children are being misled by | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
those stupid people. Why? Because I think that children deserve to know | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
what's true and what's wonderful about the world into which they | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
have been born. It really is true, and it really is wonderful, and it | :45:30. | :45:36. | |
is such a crying shame if children are denied that by ignorant and | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
stupid adults as you have described them. Richard Dawkins, thank you. | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
Tomorrow morning's front pages now. The Financial Times here has a | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
picture of Angela Merkel and the news that apparently she's going to | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
try to suppress all talk that the Greeks are going to default on | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
their debt. The independent has more on phone hacking, I think. | :45:56. | :46:06. | |
:46:06. | :46:13. | ||
That's it. The British artist Richard Hamilton died today at the | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
age of 89, he produced some terribly well known paintings, | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
sculptors and kolages, and known for a long time as the father of | :46:22. | :46:32. | |
:46:32. | :47:06. | ||
Still quite windy out there at the moment. The winds died down further | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
overnight, and light winds in the south tomorrow, with the spells of | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
sunshine, it should feel pleasant here. Cloudy skies across northern | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
England, particularly to the west of the Pennines, where there will | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
be light drizzle. In the east not a lot of sunshine. Clouding across | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
Lincolnshire and parts of the Midlands, after a sunny start. Much | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
of East Anglia and the southern counties of England will have a | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
fine day. Spells of sunshine and the winds lighter than they have | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
been. It will feel a bit warmer. Sunny spells across most of South | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
Wales, and North Wales will see a change through the day. Clouding | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
over with some rain trickling southwards through the Irish Sea. | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
That rain is pulling away through Northern Ireland, after a damp | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
start, sunshine here through the afternoon. Brighter too across | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
central and southern parts of Scotland. In the far north it will | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
be wet and still here very windy. The winds will start to ease by | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
Thursday. In fact, Thursday promises to be a fine day for much | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
of the country, an autumnal feel, it will start cold on Thursday | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
morning, there will be some mist and fog patches. They should clear | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
and Thursday then will bring most places some spells of sunshine. | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
Certainly for the majority it will be a dry day. After that cold start, | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
temperatures eventually in the sunshine reaching the mid-to high | :48:19. | :48:22. |