25/01/2012 Newsnight

Tonight we're in bigger economic trouble than was thought, there's a

good chance we are heading back into recession. The headlines are

grim, a contraction of the economy by 0.2%, and a much bigger fall in

manufacturing. We were told cut the state and the

private sector will do the rest. Is the Government in denial?

I will be asking the Chief Secretary to the Treasury if it

isn't time the Government abandoned Tory dogma about cutting things.

Six months to the opening of the Olympic Games, and an accusation

they have taken tainted money. One of the games' moral guardians son

the point of resignation, and is here to tell us why.

They are the people who make the Chinese economy function, but the

migrant workers are increasingly angry.

The pressure is getting up day by day.

So many riots and conflicts. Some day it is going to explode.

1234 And from the twin set to the leather skirt, has the Conservative

Party really become the home of feminism. We speak to Louise Mensch

and Laurie Penny. Disappointing but not unexpected

was the Government line on the latest figures on Britain's sickly

economic performance. Yet despite being predictable, this protracted

bout of anaemia, has nothing to do with Government policy, apparently.

It didn't wash with the opposition, who reached into the book of

parliamentary insults, and fished out, "self satisfied", "smug" and

complacent". Remember this, there were bright

lights, Carols and decorations as early as October. Beneath the glitz

Britain's economy was actually shrinking.

The evidence is now plain, in the fourth quarter of 2011, the economy

Now, George Osborne is the accused. He's accused of cutting too fast,

too far. Of making the recession worse. Of being in denial.

18 months ago George Osborne was a confident man, he told us, if he

cut public spending, growth should soar, he said the British economy

could export its way out of a crisis through manufacturing, and,

as employment switched from the public to the private sector, the

unemployment problem should go away. Today the confidence was less in

evidence. Britain has substantial economic problems and debts, built

up over the last ten years. We are dealing with those. But the truth

is, dealing with those problems is made more difficult by the

situation in the eurozone, and clearly what is happening at home

is also affected by what is happening abroad.

The IMF's in town tonight, calling quietly for some improvement. Mr

Osborne's critics, not so quietly. The problem is that you have to be

adaptable in the real world, economies move quickly, this is a

once in a hundred year event. So the economy is really struggling to

recover. It is now the longest lasting recession in 100 years, we

need to be adaptable. Osborne in the past, apparently, has been

quite adaptable, has been flexible, but now he as sticks there and

seems to be like a deer in the headlights. Doesn't know what to do

as the economy weakens, and simply is sticking with Plan A, come what

May. The case against George Osborne rests on this, how much of

the current stagnation is due to his policies on austerity and how

much due to the crisis in Europe. He said his policies would deliver

a steady and sustained economic recovery, with falling unemployment.

We have a shrinking economy and the highest unemployment in 18 years.

Mr Speaker, how bad do things have to get in our economy to shake him

out of his complacecy. As usual, he writes the question

before he listens to the answer. I didn't just say this is an issue of

the eurozone. It is an issue of debt and deficit, it is an issue of

squeezed household incomes, issues affecting many other economies.

employment figures increasingly tell a story of plan gone wrong.

They show a big pick-up in the number of jobs lost in the public

sector in the last nine months, and with more to come. For a while, in

2010, private sector job creation did outstrip losses in health,

education and the like, but the end of last year, it does look like

this dried up. Those were the defence brief for Mr Osborne say

the problem is strategic, and not primarily of his making. Very

little of any of the slowdown this year can be attributed to the

austerity programme. Most of it in the accounting sense can be

attributed to inflation being higher than expected and export

growth being weaker. The fundamental issue is that the

British economy sun able to grow very fast. If the economy isn't

actually contracting, then we get inflation going to 5% rapidly. That

has happened twice now in the past four years. George Osborne's

defence is simple, he had no choice, he had to cut, he had to raise

taxes. But the growth he expected by now has completely failed to

materialise. What his accusers are asking is this, what have you done

to promote it? The Government has not had a growth plan to this point.

It is very surprising, a Tory Chancellor has actually ruled out

tax cuts to firms, supsidies for investment, supsidies for job

hiring, -- subsidies for job hiring, we need to get firms hiring again.

We have heard talk-up for countries that weren't. That has scared

business investment away. Those who support George Osborne say the

unfinished task lies in the public sector. If George Osborne wants the

comittee to grow faster, -- economy to grow faster, he has to

concentrate on the public sector, private sector methods, the pursuit

of profits, greater competition. That is the area the Government has

been slow toobgt on so far. fact re-- Too slow on so far.

fact is the Government has been too to react. The bond market, silent

until now, is the bond market, that has been a harsh sentencer recently.

I spoke to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander

earlier. How much of this disappointing

performance is attributable to Government policy? Of course there

are a number of factors involved in this, and the OBR set them out very

clearly in their economic forecast in November. They included a number

of figures in the growth forecast. They included the crisis in the

eurozone and the deeper impact of the economic crisis of 2008/09 than

previously estimated. Also the higher oil, commodity and food

prices feeding into inflation. The question for us is do we have the

right mix of policy to deal with the circumstances we face. I think

we do. My question is how much of this disappointing performance was

attributable to Government policies. I take it from what you say,

Government policies have no effect at all? We in Government are not

involved in forecasting issues now. That is why we have the Office for

Budget Responsibility. They have set out the balance of reasons they

have. I think the policy of the Government to maintain fiscal

credibility is making a positive contribution to the UK economy over

the medium term. I hear you say nothing about taking any of the

responsibility for this dismal performance. Are you seriously

claiming that the rebalancing that we were told was going to happen is

happening? Well there are certainly signs of it. If you heard Mervyn

King's speech yesterday, which I know you reported last night, part

of his argument was that the rebalancing is going on underneath

these figures. Isn't the truth of the matter, Mr Alexander, that you

are collaborating in a doctrine of Conservative experiment which is

not working? I don't agree with that at all. I don't agree that

financial discipline is ideolgical. I think it is something that is the

key to good financial p management of the country. If you look at what

has happened in other countries, going back to 2010, when we came

into office, had faller budget deficits than we had, but not taken

the decisions to control their own public finances, they are in great

deal worse position as a result. You inherited a quartly growth rate

of 1.1%. You have failed -- quarterly growth rate of.1%, you

have failed to match it in a single quarter since? We inherited a

position where our credit rating was on negative watch. We are

talking about growth rates? The two are closely related. If we were in

a position where our credit rating was downgraded and there was not a

policy, which there wasn't when we came into office, to deal with the

financial problems. The impact directly on the economy would have

caused a much more severe problem than the undoubted difficulties as

a country we are facing at the moment.

So there is no possibility whatsoever of you abandoning this

experiment, it will carry on? will stick to our plans on the

fiscal position in the economy, absolutely, dealing with the

deficit, dealing with the debt problems. Regardless of the damage

it is doing? I don't accept your argument on that. But what I was

going to go on and say is there are many other things as a Government

we can do to support the economy to help build prosperity in the future.

You are wedded to further cuts, the last time we spoke I asked you

whether you were going into the next election, promising yet more

deeper cuts. Your reply was, I am afraid so. Would you like to

withdraw or rephrase that now? I wouldn't like to withdraw or

rephrase that now. As a coalition Government, we have set out in the

Autumn Statement, plans, numbers for further spending reductions in

future years, we will have to fill out what those mean in due course.

Of course it will be for political parties in their manifestos to set

out whether they wish to make adjustments to those things.

whatever happens you are going to stick with this policy that you and

your friend George Osborne have cooked up? It is a policy that

across the coalition Government, we have worked on and developed and

are now delivering as a Government. I think that is the right thing for

the country. Given the degree of credibility, in terms of the bond

markets and the interest rates and the impact that has in the real

economy, very substantial. The idea some how stepping away from that

now, potentially causing interest rates to rise, would be completely

the wrong thing to do. For the avoidance of any possible doubt,

the Liberal Democrats are committed to these cuts which will happen

after the next election? We are committed to the spending plans

that we set out, we set out those spending plans in the Spending

Review, and then in the Autumn Statement. Clearly there will have

to be further work done in terms of what that means in detail. There

will then have to be further work, of course, for political parties to

put forward in their manifestos as to whether they want to make

changes to the manifestos. We are committed in Government, Liberal

Democrats and Conservatives, to the plans we set out in the Autumn

Statement, yes. As Chief Secretary to the Treasury, can you tell us

when the public debt will come below a trillion pounds? Not off

the top of my head, no. I can tell you that on the plans that we have

set out, as we will meet the goal we set, to have the level of public

debt falling as share of GDP by 2015. That is an important part of

our plan to restore the credibility of the public finances. A trillion

pounds is a lot of money. It is. You have no idea when we are going

to get below it? It is 64.5% of GDP. The debt is forecast on the OBR's

last forecast to peak in the high 70s of GDP and then start coming

down. Clearly when it comes back down to that level as a share of

GDP will depend on future policies and future spending reviews. I

certainly would agree with you, that getting our proportion of debt

down, over the medium term, will continue to have to be a priority

for future Governments, absolutely. You will be long retired, won't

you? Well, I have turned 40 this year, I hope you might give me a

wee bit of credit. Our economics editor, Paul Mason,

is still here. What's the prediction, it will get worse

before it gets better f it gets better? The danger is there is a

spiral. The last time we had a one quarter blip down, is it righted

itself. Tonight we are looking at one oil refinery and two steel

works, in danger of job losses, in administration, a whole shrew of

retail companies in retail administration over Christmas. The

way out of it, all sides of politics recognise that more could

be done on growth. But the problem s for the Government, if you add

the missing jigsaw piece to its current strategy, it is fiscally a

Conservative strategy, the missing -- conservative strategy, the

missing jigsaw piece is a big privatisation and marketisation of

the public services, and it is an assault on wage costs, on unit

labour costs on the economy. It is quite a Thatcherite thing. You saw

there Mr Alexander, from an essentially Keynsian party, Vincent

Cable a notable Keynsian, they have a different way. They -- They have

a speech tomorrow urging the Government to bring tax cuts. How

do you get to the growth bit is the Government's problem. The figures

on manufacturing were especially bad, are parts of the economy just

gone for good? Yes, we are beginning to realise how bad it is.

The economy just doesn't seem to be able to grow without creating

inflation, and chokes off economic growth. 20%, the official figure is

output is 4% lower than in 2008. On one calculation f you add that to

the decline in the value of sterling, then internationally you

could say the UK economy has shrunk by 20%. One of the problems is we

don't really know how to dig ourselves out of it, except by more

radical measures than the political system at the moment can deliver.

The London Olympic Games look about to be plunged into controversy.

Indian athletes are troubled by the organisers' decision to accept

sponsorship for part of the stadium from the Dow Chemical Company. The

deal is worth �7 million. But the critics say the company hasn't

behaved properly over compensation for the victims of the Bhopal

disaster. In a moment we will hear from an Olympic commissioner who is

on the point of resignation over this. First we report.

They call it a wrap, a kilometer- long plastic covering that will

adorn the Olympic stadium as a symbol of the world coming together.

It is proving to be devisive, the wrap will be paid for a chemical

giant with corporate ties to the worst industrial disaster in modern

times. In 1984, poison news gas leaked from tank at the Union

Carbide plant in Bhopal, central India, killing around 4,000 people

in the immediate aftermath, and thousands later. In 1989, the

Indian Supreme Court ordered union cash bite to pay $470 million in a

final settlement for the catastrophy. In 1999 union car bite

was bought by -- Union Carbite was bought out by Dow Chemical Company.

Protests have continued, and sometimes violently, and Dow's

sponsorship of the Olympic wrap has brought criticism. You can't buy a

company and then say everything the company has done in the past has

nothing to do with you. We are talking about a clean up that is

absolutely the responsibility of Dow Chemical Company. We are

talking about hundreds of thousands of people living with the

consequences of water that is contaminated, that their children

are drinking. Dow, whose chemicals are also used in the Olympic's

The International Olympic Committee has a clean stadia policy. That

basically means within the confines of each event, there can be no

overt branding or sponsorship. That begs the question, why would the

chemical company, Dow, spend �7 million on a branding that no-one

can see. The experts say it is money well

spent in showing that it is an ethical company, not bound by its

connection to the Bhopal tragedy. The parallel perhaps to understand

the situation they are in is almost when the British Government, under

Tony Blair, apologised for things that happened in the Colonial past

that had nothing to do with him or his Government. But they need to

find some way to draw a line under the affair.

Then there is the potential damage to London 2012's own image. After

spending almost �10 billion on a seven-week sporting jam bourry,

Olympic big wigs and a myriad of backers, won't want sportsmanship

to be lts legacy the organisers of 2012 say they are satisfied that

Dow Chemical Company were neither the owners or operators at the time

of the chemical leek in 1984 in Bhopal, and any lingering issues

are not related to Dow Chemical Company, which are sponsoring the

wrap around the stadium. With six months to go before the wrap is

unfurled, the public may have a different view on whether it should

have been sponsored by someone else. We're joined now by Meredith

Alexander, a commissioner for sustainability for the London

Olympics. What possible harm can it do for Dow to sponsor the Olympics?

When I first started looking at the issue I was given information by

Amnesty International, that has convinced me that Dow Chemical

Company bears the responsibility for the death of 20,000 people in

the aftermath. 20,000 people, Dow Chemical Company, they didn't even

own union -- Union Carbide at the time. There was a full and final

settlement agreed by the highest court in the land? That is the

truth they like to present. There are on going court cases in India

and the United States. The Government in India itself has

asked to have the settlement undone. More importantly, the victims and

the families of the people who died have also demanded that justice be

done. The company, Dow Chemical Company, emphatically denies that

it has any liability, and that it has behaved entirely properly and

the thing is settled. If they were to give in to this pressure, what's

to say there wouldn't be another lot of claims in another ten years

or twenty years time? It is simple, when they bought the company, they

bought the liability. In Bhopal's case, it is a toxic legacy. What

needs to happen is there needs to be true justice. From the moment

that final settlement, called, started, the victims came out very

strongly to say they had not been involved and they had not been

consulted. If you look at the court documentation, it is very clearly

that the numbers of victims that were expected to be compensated

under that settlement, they are almost no relationship to the true

number of victims to the tragedy. How strongly do you feel about

this? Very strongly. What are you doing about it? I'm choosing to do

is, I'm member of the Commission for Sustainable London 2012. It is

a body that has been asked to look at the sustainability and ethics of

the 2012 games. By coming on here tonight talking to you about this,

I have taken the decision to resign from that commission to stand up

for my principles. You are resigning as of now, 10.58.

afraid so, yes. What effect will that have? It allows me to stand up

for my principles. I feel the body I'm part of has to look at the

claims. It will bring attention to the victims' side of the story. In

so many cases you hear from the company, they have an army of PR

people to put their side of the story forward. The victims, the

people who have really experienced this tragedy, and the families of

the people who died in this tragedy, they are not the ones people listen

to. There are how many of you commissioners? About a dozen of us.

And are any others going to resign? I know people are very concerned

about this issue. What they will chose to do, I couldn't tell you.

For me personally, it was an incredibly difficult decision to

take. It doesn't sound terribly difficult? It was, I have to say I

think the commission has done some amazing work. It is really doing

everything it can on most issues to make the games sustainable. I just

think it got it wrong this time. Unfortunately this is an iconic

case. This is one of the worst abuses of human rights in my

generation. I couldn't sit by and let it stand as it was.

Thank you very much. In a few minutes we will discuss

whether you can be a feminist and a Tory with the MP Louise Mensch and

with Laurie Penny. First we have the third of our films marking the

start of the Chinese new year. The grey cloud hanging over Europe is a

very long way from China, of course, except in so far as the economic

crisis means there is less demand for the things China makes. The

economy there is kept afloat by a massive cheap work force who

migrate from the countryside to the city in search of better pay and a

better life. These migrant workers work and live under a system that

is against them. We have travelled to a city where social tensions are

China's wealth is not built on oil or gold, it is built on cheap

labour. Workers who are denied the same rights as the city dwellers

they live alongside. But this other China is now coming out of the

shadows. This is a story about the frustration about a class long

considered separate and invisible to the rest of China. About rising

tension between local and migrant workers, which threatens the

stability of Chinese society itself. The pressure is getting up day by

day. So many riots and conflicts. Some days it is going to explode.

This is the province of Guangzhou in southern China. Progressive and

capitalist, population, 100 million, two-thirds locals, one third

migrants. Tension is rising.

TRANSLATION: We have a very tiny share of the wealth, our lives have

not improved that much. Wages are low, inflation is high. Migrant

workers are scraping a living, we're only just getting by. There

has been a wave of strikes and protests here. A clandsetine

meeting at the back of a restaurant. These workers forced an 11-day

shutdown over conditions at a local watch factory. TRANSLATION:

hours are long, the work is hard, there is a lot of pressure on us,

there is no outlook for our unhappiness. People have felt

oppressed for a long time. The pressure is building up.

Entertainment at the factory gates. Managers believe dancing will keep

the workers happy. There are thousands of protests every year

from the migrant workers and the pressure doesn't end when the shift

is over. These migrants face the risk of meeting protection squads,

hired by locals to keep order. They live under the shadow of violence

In this advice centre I met a doorman who used to sell fruit at a

market. He told me what happened when a fellow stall holder refused

to pay protection money. TRANSLATION: Suddenly four locals

showed up on motorbikes, they had been drinking. They attacked him

and beat him with sticks, it lasted for two hours, eventhough the

police station was just around the corner. When the police finally did

come he was all swollen, his face was purple and green. Migrant

workers are vulnerable because they don't have what is known as a huko.

Huko is your residency permit in China, it guarantees legal rights

as well as access to schools, hospitals and welfare. But only in

your home town or village. It was designed under Chairman Mao, to

stop people from moving. But in the last few decades hundreds of

millions of people have moved to find work. And now they live in

limbo. This is what not having a local huko means. Education is

largely free to locals, but migrants must pay. Almost a year's

salary to put your child through Primary School. A third of these

children are from migrant families, this child's parents are migrants,

the school has waved his fees because his -- waived his fees

because his family faces other problems. He's a very good student,

every morning he reads English at home for one hour. What happened to

his mother? His mother got sick, and every month she would go back

to the hospital to see the doctor, and they should pay a lot of money

to see the doctor. So their life is very difficult. His parents earn

�60 a week. Just enough to get by on until his mother found a lump in

her breast. Doctors told her she had cancer. But she needed a

mastectomy, but without a local huko she would have to pay for it

herself. The family has gone deep into debt. TRANSLATION: I have been

crying since the moment I found out. I lost a breast. I no longer feel

like a woman. Our fate is a bitter one. TRANSLATION: -- Factories are

supposed to provide medical care for those without a huko, her's

made a contribution, and then docked her wages and tried to sack

her. TRANSLATION: The factory tried to make me resign, I said I can't

afford to leave, I have contributed to the insurance, and now I'm ill

and need the money they want me to go. Caught between the gaps in

China's system, turned away because she's not an official residence.

Just because you are a non-huko holder and I don't see a medical

insurance report, I'm sorry you have to go to another hospital.

Seriously sick people are turned away from hospital because they

don't have this permit? Yes. This woman runs a workers' health line,

every day the staff hear hundreds of calls. Migrants are increasingly

vocal about the discrimination they face. Resentment is growing. It is

getting more serious. According to the records there are so many roidz

and conflicts, and even strike -- riots and conflicts and strikes. As

they are migrants they are not accepted as a local huko holder.

This is what can happen when anger explodes, the town of Zunchung in

June. It began with a rumour that a pregnant woman had been assaulted

by local protection squads, it descended into a riot. The chaos

lasted for three days, cars flipped over, buildings torched. Government

offices ransacked. Disharmony and instability, the

thing which China's leaders fear most. For many years it didn't

matter that millions of migrants didn't have proper access to

hospitals and schools. Because everyone was on the make. But the

long boom is over, life in China's getting harder, food prices are

rising, job opportunities are shrinking, and public services are

under intense pressure. Suddenly, a large population of restive

unregistered migrants looks like a problem for China's leadership.

There is new talk of equality. The communist party admits the problem

is serious. It wants to be seen as responding to migrants' concerns.

TRANSLATION: Migrant workers live and work in this city, we must

provide them with basic rights and benefits. If they can't educate

their children or find decent housing they will be dissatisfied

with the Government. If we don't reform huko, we could see more

instability. The Government's language is changing. Migrants can

now apply for the same rights as city residents under a points-based

system, based on education and skills. There is a need it keep

garment factories like this open and keep the workers coming here.

So far few permits have been issued. Last year 3,000 permits from a

population of millions. A drop in the ocean.

If you recognise the problem, why don't you just do away with this

distinction, why don't you treat all the residents of the city the

same now? TRANSLATION: We can't abolish huko overright, our policy

does, however, create a clear path for migrant workers to obtain the

same benefits and services as local residents. But there is a huge cost

associated with that. That is why we are introducing the points

system gradually. The Government fears unrest, but it is equally

scared of the huge cost of absorbing migrants, of public

services swamped, of city dwellers in revolt. But this new generation

of workers may not wait much longer. Internet cafes are where many young

Chinese migrant workers spend their one day off a week. Aspirational,

aware, on-line. This generation of Chinese migrant workers matters,

because they are so very different from their parents. They live their

lives on-line. They are part of a much bigger world. Compared to the

last two generations, there they have a more open-minded mind set,

also they have a better channel to express themselves. That leads to a

consequence that the tension is getting more and more serious. The

Government knows that. The huko system was designed for a very

different China, to stop rural poor overwhelming the cities.

For years it prevented chaos. Now it could be fuelling disorder. But

the migrants are here to stay. There was once a slogan on an

Australian door that went viral in the days before anything could go

viral, "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle". In the years

since its invention, feminism, we are told, has become an integral

part of our politics, a belief that gender equality is indispensable to

electability, since half the population don't carry the Y

chromosome, the left and the Labour Party have made a point of

associating left politics with feminism. Can you be a feminist and

a cfrb? I'm a strong Conservative myself

and always have been. Time was you knew a Tory woman when

you saw one. Buttoned up, respectable, knowing her place.

Even the woman who became the party's first female leader played

the game. There is still a little bit sticking up, you can see it in

the reflection. But once she had stormed Downing Street, there was

something else on display, the mouth of Marilyn Monroe, said the

President of France, and the eyes of Calig ula, a steely

determination, draped in a twinset. The lady's not for turning.

Robert Widders had to quit politics before she could -- Anne wid comb

had to quit politics -- Widdicombe had to quit politics before showing

her feminist side. Some other stories play by different rules,

this is the MP for Corby, Louise Mensch. Her latest announcement is

that Conservative women have brought feminism out of the ghetto.

Oh yes. Louise Mensch is here now, along

with Laurie Penny, from the left- leaning New Statesman magazine. Do

you think you can be a feminist and right-wing? Of course you can be a

feminist and right-wing. There is a long history of reactionry right-

wing politicians using feminism, blowing the horn of feminism to

support their plilgts. Folks some of the early Suffragettes co-ofpted

by the fascist movement. -- co- opted by the fascist movement. I'm

not calling you a fascist, but it doesn't mean facisim was good for

women. There are lots of different types of feminism, but some of them

are wrong. That is an interesting way to put it. It is right to talk

about the Suffragettes, we didn't see Mrs Pankhurst in that. The

Conservatives first gave the vote to women, the Conservatives Women's

Organisation was the first political organisation for women in

the world. Just to forestall the letters, it was the first female MP

who took her seat was a Conservative. Accuracy is very

important, indeed Nancy Astor and David Cameron named his daughter

after her. I have great respect for Laurie is a key voice for the left,

aged only 25, I don't think there is a wrong kind of feminism, there

are different types of feminism. I always believe in politics you want

to get to the same goal and the left and right have different

methods of getting there. This article that sparked this thought,

that you wrote for the Guardian. You used this phrase about taking

feminism out of the ghetto. What do you mean? That was a sub-heading. I

said there is a ghetto of the impact equalties assessment, by

which I meant, of course, that Tory feminism looks at women as a

holistic thing, you don't just look at called women's issues. You say

raising the personal allowance takes 1.1 million out of tax all

together, most of those are women. You are looking at policies that

affect women as a whole, you don't just look at issues that the press

would like to label as called women's issues. Women's politics is

bigger than that. And Tory feminism I believe is an holistic feminism

and Laurie Penny might have a different view. You can talk about

holistic feminism all you like, Louise, but when you have policies

that will put more women out of work than at any time since records

began. And threatening a woman's right to choose, I can't see a

feminism that is useful for women. It maybe feminism, but not one that

will positively affect women's lives. Feminism isn't just about

winning women's votes, which is what most politicians use and

brandish the term around really want, feminism is about improving

women's lives. There is nothing inherently wrong in want to go win

votes, that is how you win elections and that is how you get

things done in politics. It is not an accesssory you put on and win

votes and make people pay attention to you. Winning votes is important,

every politician is pitching to get support. To take a lead with women

even in incredibly important times, it shows the policies have a wider

appeal to women, and women must feel, by wider definition, these

policies are directly beneficial to their lives. I think it is

important that feminists of the right and left come together to

challenge things and make common cause. Something I would like to

put you on the spot about is the lack of women on the Today

programme. I have nothing to d with the programme? You represent the

BBC. I am a hired hand? We were talking in the dressing room, and

the Guardian has a plan to challenge the BBC on their lack of

female representation. We have nothing but women on tonight,

except from Danny Alexander, the beleaguered man. I think there is

case to answer for the BBC. back to the point? That the woman

should know her place. We are talking about representation.

Absolutely, the point of feminism is that there is no gender

discrimination, but there is one issue in particular, on which there

clearly is a female perspective, that is the question of

reproductive rights, abortion, the right to choose, the right to life.

Can you be a feminist and believe in the right to life? I think it is

probably where we differ. I don't think you can be a feminist and

oppose a woman's right to choose safe, legal abortion, what you are

effectively saying, if you attack a woman's right to choose is that you

are prepared to force a woman to undergo pregnancy against her will.

That is the bottom line, it is the bottom line of quite a lot of

feminism. I would put it to Louise if she really believes in women's

rights f she really believes that women are important as human beings

in a holistic feminism, surely you will oppose this Government's, and

members of the party in Government's efforts to attack

women's rights to choose. Will you oppose that when it next comes on

the bill. There is no take on the women's rights to choose in America.

Unlike in America where it is a litmus test for politics, we have

the free vote system in this country and well defended. You have

taken a position on abortion counselling? Yes, my position is it

ought to be widened. I have not in any sense tried to restrict

abortion providers to provide counselling, I respect the work

they do serving women. I have good faith and full credit if they wish

to continue providing counselling they could. I want the service

widening so women have access to counselling from a wide variety of

providers. I don't wish to limit any of the work abortion

counsellors does. I recognise as a good pragmatist and a Tory that

this is a pro-choice country. There is no concerted attack on the right

to choose. Most Tories I know are pro-choice, the vast majority of

women in the Conservative Party are pro-choice, the Conservative

Women's Association is pro-choice. Nadine Dorrie isn't? She would

describe herself as pro-choice in parts, but I don't share her views.

The upcoming debates will be an take on the legal time limit on

abortion, which is another way of restricting women's access to

abortion services, I would ask again, will you be opposing those

measures in parliament. If there was debate on the time limit I will

vote as the Prime Minister did, for a modest reduction in the limit

which many men and women of all parties will vote for. I want to

ask you one thing, in this article you refer to David Cameron as the

most feminist leader the Conservative Party has ever had?

doubt at all. More than Mrs Thatcher? More than Mrs Thatcher.

I'm sitting here because he did something about the lack of women's

representation, as there is on the BBC, where are the older news

readers, you don't like to hear it but it is true. You say what you

like, direct it to the right people. This is the BBC. Tomorrow morning

One. Brightest ballet stars in Britain has suddenly quit the Royal

Ballet. His motives seem a bit of a mystery, he's clearly a brilliant

A cooler feel to our weather tomorrow. It will be a wet start

across eastern counties of England. That rain soon scoots away, the

skies will brighten. Sunshine but also showers. With the colder air

those showers will have a wintry flavour. Snow over the Pennines,

low levels of northern England, a little snow can't be ruled out.

Hail across the East Midlands, for many a fine afternoon with sunshine

coming through. Sunny spells and showers across South-West England,

again up over the moors, there could be a little bit of snow, the

same for Wales over the hills and mountains, some snow is possible at

low levels. We are more likely to encounter hail and showers. For

Northern Ireland wintry showers in the morning. It could also be icey.

Ice is also a risk across Scotland first thing in the morning. It

could be some snow showers through the Glasgow area particularly in

the middle part of the day. That is something to keep an eye on. Friday

promise as mix of sunshine and showers, subtle differences, not as

many showers in Scotland. A better chance of sunshine here. A wet day

in Manchester. For the south, Friday promises sun and wintry

showers, temperatures back to normal.