01/03/2012 Newsnight


01/03/2012

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Tonight, tortured and drowned by a member of his own familiarly 15-

:00:08.:00:12.

year-old Christie Bamu's murders believed he was possessed by demons.

:00:12.:00:17.

We will talk to church leaders and child protection experts to explore

:00:17.:00:26.

the links between the belief in evil spirits, kindoki, and religion.

:00:26.:00:31.

Thousands of children have been sent here to people they have never

:00:31.:00:36.

met and come under contact of the authorities. We have had cases of

:00:36.:00:40.

extreme physical and sexual abuse of these children, and if they are

:00:40.:00:44.

in school, nobody asks questions about their immigration status.

:00:44.:00:48.

Fighting gives way in Homs, the army may take further revenge on

:00:48.:00:55.

civilians, it is feared. We will ask an activist what he is hearing

:00:55.:00:59.

about the rebellion. We are on the road with the IMF.

:00:59.:01:03.

She's on the road, Newsnight interviews, as a double act.

:01:03.:01:07.

Christine Lagarde's talents have impressed George Osborne, but can

:01:07.:01:17.
:01:17.:01:18.

anyone really solve the eurozone crisis?

:01:18.:01:22.

There were more than 100 injuries on the body of Kristy Bamu, within

:01:22.:01:27.

I was finally drowned in a bath in a flat in East London on Christmas

:01:27.:01:31.

Day. Today his sister and her husband

:01:31.:01:36.

were convicted of one of the worst cases of child abuse seen in

:01:36.:01:42.

Britain. Their brutality was driven by a belief in kindoki, that he was

:01:42.:01:46.

possessed by an evil spirit that had to be driven from him. We

:01:46.:01:52.

report on extremely disturbing case. What took place in the Kristy Bamu

:01:52.:02:02.

case is a leap to something utterly ferral, it goes way beyond the

:02:02.:02:07.

bounds Feral, it goes way beyond the bounds of normality. We know

:02:07.:02:11.

lots of children are dying in silence and suffering in silence.

:02:11.:02:16.

Two years ago Kristy Bamu travelled from Paris, with his siblings, to

:02:16.:02:23.

spend Christmas with their sister, Mag alie, he arrived at this tower

:02:23.:02:28.

block in London in East London in September, but he never left.

:02:28.:02:33.

Christmas Day 2010, paramedics are called to this flat, 248, in the

:02:33.:02:38.

bath they find a 15-year-old boy, he's dead. He has 100 separate

:02:38.:02:42.

injuries. There is blood splattered on the floor, on the walls, even on

:02:42.:02:49.

the ceiling. The abuse began when he wet himself, the bathroom door

:02:49.:02:54.

was locked and he couldn't get in. Embarrassed he hid his underpants

:02:54.:03:03.

in the kitchen, Eric Bikubi found them, and accused him of trying to

:03:03.:03:11.

pollute the food using kindoki, they were forced to fast and pray.

:03:11.:03:16.

But Kristy was singled out, being hit with the hammer in the face and

:03:16.:03:20.

tortured with a pliers. He was begging them to let him die.

:03:20.:03:26.

Finally he was put into a bath of water, as Kristy drowned, Eric

:03:26.:03:32.

Bikubi talked about the power of God. In the hours before Kristy

:03:32.:03:36.

died, he spoke to his father in Paris, he begged to be collected

:03:36.:03:40.

from London, because he said Eric was going to kill him.

:03:40.:03:45.

But by the time his father had borrowed the money for the ferry,

:03:45.:03:53.

his son was already dead. TRANSLATION: There is a pain in my

:03:53.:03:58.

heart, this pain, I can't explain it. It took me at least a week-and-

:03:58.:04:08.
:04:08.:04:08.

a-half before I started eating again. It is tough, really tough.

:04:08.:04:12.

This is unimaginable. The children went to London, because I had

:04:12.:04:22.

confidence in Eric, but one of them came back in a coffin.

:04:22.:04:26.

But to understand what happened to Kristy Bamu, you have to look at

:04:26.:04:36.
:04:36.:04:38.

the Congalese culture of kinddoky. What has happened in -- What has

:04:38.:04:44.

happened is this idea of kindoki possession has taken hold in the

:04:44.:04:47.

Congalese. It is hard to find people now who don't think it is

:04:47.:04:51.

real or believe in it. We could be talking about 25 million people in

:04:51.:04:55.

the Congo, and other parts of Africa and outside Africa, who

:04:55.:05:00.

believe in this possession by witchcraft, or wind doky. In the

:05:00.:05:06.

past -- Wind doky. In the past it was believed -- Kindoki. In the

:05:06.:05:13.

past it was believed only old people can be possessed. Because of

:05:13.:05:19.

war children were made into child soldiers and became objects of fair.

:05:19.:05:24.

Evangelical Chris tannity has flooded the country, mixing

:05:24.:05:29.

religious and culture. It is now children who are seen to carry the

:05:29.:05:39.
:05:39.:05:39.

contagion of kindoki. These beliefs know no borders, they

:05:39.:05:44.

have simply followed migrants as they have moved to Europe. Where it

:05:44.:05:50.

is very, very prevalent is in these communities where everything is

:05:50.:05:58.

justified on the basis of belief, misfortune, poverty, sickness. It

:05:58.:06:02.

can lead to neglect, because people will stop looking after the child,

:06:02.:06:08.

and here we have seen cases where children have been refused food, to

:06:09.:06:12.

starve them, in the belief that to weaken the evil spirit. That's

:06:12.:06:21.

completely wrong. This woman and her sister Christine,

:06:21.:06:27.

grew up with Magalie Bamu, they say the believe in kindoki is

:06:27.:06:31.

widespread here as it is in the Congalese. Is it possible for

:06:31.:06:36.

somebody to be kindoki or possessed by evil spirits. It is very

:06:36.:06:40.

possible. When you say is it possible, they are, there are many

:06:40.:06:46.

people who are. If you watch Harry Potter that is kindoki, I would

:06:46.:06:51.

personally not let my child watch those kinds of programmes, Harry

:06:51.:06:58.

Potter, scam charmed, it is exactly what happens, you watch these

:06:58.:07:03.

movies and see how an evil spirit would go into someone. In the

:07:03.:07:09.

Jamesd of Jesus Christ. In 2005, Newsnight investigated how some

:07:09.:07:12.

churches with African roots, operating in Britain, were

:07:12.:07:20.

fostering the idea of demonic possession, of adults and children.

:07:20.:07:24.

Since the death of Victoria Climbie, in the year 2000, who was killed

:07:24.:07:28.

partly because of that belief, the authorities have not been idle.

:07:28.:07:32.

There has been widespread training of police, social workers and

:07:32.:07:38.

pastors, a special police unite, Project Violet -- unit, project

:07:38.:07:43.

Violet was set up, and there is a working group chaired by a minister.

:07:43.:07:47.

Despite those efforts, African churches continue to spring up

:07:47.:07:50.

across London, as migrant communities search for identity and

:07:50.:07:55.

security, most are entirely begin nine, but some do preach a muscular

:07:55.:08:00.

belief in witchcraft. There is little outside regulation of any of

:08:00.:08:05.

their activities. We now know that Eric Bikubi came here, to the

:08:05.:08:09.

Holloway Road in London, looking for Nigerian churches, looking to

:08:09.:08:13.

back up his belief in spirit possession.

:08:13.:08:18.

This is a film released by one of the most high-profile evangelical

:08:18.:08:22.

churchs in Nigeria. Children receive their instructions from the

:08:22.:08:30.

devil, to wreek havoc in their homes.

:08:30.:08:36.

- in the UK, cases like the one moving Kristy Bamu and Eric Bikubi

:08:36.:08:41.

are very rare. But professionals believe that potentially dangerous

:08:41.:08:45.

beliefs are escaping the relative control of churches and going

:08:45.:08:49.

underground. One of the most disturbing aspects of the case,

:08:49.:08:53.

this is at least the third case where an and deliverance or

:08:53.:08:58.

something of that sort has taken place in a home, Victoria Climbie,

:08:58.:09:03.

Child B, and now this case, Kristy Bamu. In the Congo, in the DLC, and

:09:03.:09:09.

other parts of Africa, I'm not condoning what pastors do for a

:09:09.:09:14.

second, I'm condoning the churches, but at least there was a measure of

:09:14.:09:17.

control. What happened here was totally feral and out of control,

:09:17.:09:20.

and nobody seemed to notice what was going on, because they did it

:09:20.:09:26.

in their home, that is frightening. Though not regular churchgoers,

:09:26.:09:31.

Kristy's killers had strong beliefs, but from where, 24-hour religious

:09:31.:09:39.

channels on TV or on-line, or on DVDs, easily on this market in East

:09:39.:09:43.

London. My guide doesn't want to be identified for fear of being

:09:43.:09:48.

ostracised by his community. How easy would it be for you here to

:09:48.:09:52.

buy videos talking about kindoki? There is a shop there, with that

:09:52.:09:57.

guy, round the corner. Do people take them seriously or is it just

:09:57.:10:03.

entertainment? A bit of both. But it is never questioned. So people

:10:03.:10:10.

never question kindoki? Never. that children can be po tesed. We

:10:10.:10:15.

took -- possessed. We took what we bought to a cafe to watch. We

:10:15.:10:22.

bought this around the corner. Some have lurid covers and others

:10:22.:10:28.

are bootlegs. Yeah. All of them have scenes of deliverance. Heavy,

:10:28.:10:35.

especially this one. This drama, made in kins Shas is a, a pastor

:10:35.:10:42.

miraculously heels a blind boy, by miraculously delivering him of the

:10:42.:10:47.

evil spir rite We don't know what is going -- Spirit. We don't know

:10:47.:10:51.

what is going on underground, what abuse there is. The evil spirit,

:10:51.:10:58.

that is the spirit of infestation, and diseases. There are those in

:10:58.:11:01.

the Congalese community that want to tackle the problem head on, here

:11:01.:11:08.

a group of teenagers perform a play about kindoki, a pastor accuse as

:11:08.:11:15.

child, performs an exorism and then demands payment. It has been shown

:11:15.:11:19.

to churchgoers and workers. Since the death of Victoria Climbie, the

:11:19.:11:22.

authorities have focused on tackling abuse, not the beliefs

:11:22.:11:26.

behind it. Some, though, feel it is time to recognise there are ideas

:11:26.:11:32.

just too toxic to leave unchallenged.

:11:32.:11:36.

The block is white middle-class people who don't want to touch the

:11:36.:11:43.

liberal multicultural agenda. John Sentamu saying once that the

:11:43.:11:46.

ultimate no-no for a white liberal was to tell a black person that

:11:47.:11:50.

they are wrong. But we have to get through this, it is beyond just

:11:50.:11:54.

skin colour. We have to grow up. It is only a matter of time, I'm

:11:54.:11:57.

afraid, unless we take action, before there are more children that

:11:57.:12:04.

are abused, or indeed, horrendous though it will be, killed because

:12:04.:12:09.

of this belief system, that is why we have to tackle it. The Old

:12:09.:12:15.

Bailey was old that Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu, came from chaotic,

:12:15.:12:18.

dysfuntional backgrounds, for them witchcraft was real and powerful,

:12:18.:12:22.

it gave an explanation for every misfortune. In their fear and anger

:12:22.:12:25.

they turned on a child, who couldn't defend himself. Kristy

:12:25.:12:31.

paid with his life for their warped and distorted faith.

:12:31.:12:37.

We will hear more on that in a moment. I'm joined now by bishop

:12:37.:12:45.

Joe Aldred, Ariyo from AFRUCA, and Modeste Muyulu, a Congalese pastor

:12:45.:12:50.

of the French Christian community at Beth they will church. How swied

:12:50.:12:55.

spread -- Bethel Church. How widespread is the belief of kindoki

:12:55.:13:03.

in the UK? It would apear that the belief may well be widespread --

:13:03.:13:08.

appear that the belief is widespread. It is also that it can

:13:08.:13:16.

be set in a wider context. It is not unusual that we have the word

:13:16.:13:20.

"witch-hunt" in the English vocabulary, it goes back centuries

:13:20.:13:24.

and is universal. This particular strain, while we are clear that not

:13:24.:13:30.

every day it appears we get this kind of incident, but every time it

:13:30.:13:35.

happens it is so traumatic, and though a specialist end of the

:13:35.:13:41.

whole thing, it is pretty scary. you find a lot of pastors equate

:13:41.:13:45.

some bad behaviour in children with some kind of possession by spirits?

:13:45.:13:50.

That's not my experience. In fact, my role with Churches Together, is

:13:50.:13:53.

largely to support the black Christian community across the

:13:53.:13:58.

country. I would say, I come across this hardly at all. But the reason

:13:58.:14:02.

for that, of course, is because by the time you come to churches which

:14:02.:14:08.

are members of Churches Together in England, you are dealing very often

:14:08.:14:14.

with the safer end of the Christian community. The challenge is how we

:14:14.:14:19.

reach those operating largely on the boundaries of Christianity, and

:14:19.:14:24.

behaving in ways which are dangerous to children. Modeste

:14:24.:14:28.

Muyulu, you believe some people can be possessed by evil spirits?

:14:28.:14:33.

I do believe that some people can be possessed by evil spirits, and

:14:33.:14:37.

that I also believe that witchcraft is real, but the problem is how you

:14:37.:14:43.

deal with it. How do you know, to begin with, how do you know that a

:14:43.:14:50.

child, for example is possessed with a spirit? I cannot be

:14:50.:14:53.

suspicious to somebody and accuse him to be possessed by the evil

:14:53.:14:58.

spirit. I cannot do that, because it is not my duty to do that.

:14:58.:15:02.

you believe it does happen. For instance, in this case, we heard of

:15:02.:15:06.

a 15-year-old who wet himself, I mean, is that something that would

:15:06.:15:10.

be some kind of sign that this person potentially could be

:15:10.:15:15.

possessed by evil spirits or not? To me, wetting the bed could not be

:15:15.:15:21.

a sign of being possessed by the evil spirit, that's my belief.

:15:21.:15:25.

those who are possessed or you have reason to believe are possessed,

:15:25.:15:28.

relieving them of the spirit, getting rid of that demon, is that

:15:28.:15:34.

being seen as doing something good for that person? Yes. We can pray

:15:34.:15:40.

just a simple prayer, with love, with kprags, without doing any --

:15:40.:15:44.

compassion, without doing any harm to the person, without being

:15:44.:15:48.

violent. If the person thinks he might be possessed. It is the

:15:48.:15:53.

person who needs the prayer, I'm not going to accuse people and

:15:53.:15:57.

force people to be prayed for. But if somebody thinks that he might

:15:57.:16:02.

need the prayer, if he thinks that he might have a demon in him, just

:16:02.:16:09.

a simple prayer with love, with compassion, without any violence we

:16:09.:16:15.

can do that. Is that the line that people can believe as they wish but

:16:15.:16:19.

no question of violence, that is where you draw the line? You can't

:16:19.:16:25.

question what people choose to believe in, you can question

:16:25.:16:30.

people's religion, we have a problem where religion mutates into

:16:30.:16:34.

a harmful practice, where children are harmed and abused. As we have

:16:34.:16:38.

seen in this case, children are actually killed. If you said to a

:16:38.:16:43.

child, or of a child, this child is possessed, this child is possessed

:16:44.:16:48.

by demons, isn't that harmful? believe it is harmful, because I

:16:48.:16:55.

think that it is difficult, as we have seen now, to actually

:16:55.:17:00.

determine what constitutes spirit possession. How do you know a child

:17:00.:17:04.

is possessed of evil spirits, how do you know a child has witchcraft,

:17:04.:17:09.

how can you tell? I haven't seen anybody who has been able to tell

:17:09.:17:15.

me exactly how that diagnosis can be made. How do you tell, that is

:17:15.:17:19.

surely the question if somebody is suspected of being possessed by

:17:19.:17:24.

demons, how can you tell or how do you have a clue? As I earlier, it

:17:24.:17:30.

is not a part that I have to play to accuse somebody, but if somebody,

:17:30.:17:37.

if the person thinks that he might have an evil spirit, that is my

:17:37.:17:42.

duty as a minister, just to pray for him. Do you take the point if

:17:42.:17:46.

you say, particularly to a child, you are possessed by an evil spirit,

:17:46.:17:51.

that is child abuse, isn't it? of the things I have been accusing

:17:51.:17:55.

pastors to be wary of, of a case where somebody comes into a church

:17:55.:17:59.

with a child and asks for prayer for the child because therapysed.

:17:59.:18:08.

You have to be careful, I'm -- they are possessed. I'm saying don't do

:18:08.:18:13.

that. You need to counsel further with that family to find out what

:18:13.:18:17.

is going on with that child. There is a part of my Christian faith

:18:17.:18:27.
:18:27.:18:32.

that seemed to pander just too much to you know evil spirit possession.

:18:32.:18:37.

And the need to cast out or exorcise that demon. I'm getting on

:18:37.:18:41.

in age, I have been a Christian all my life, it is not something that

:18:41.:18:44.

is an every day occurrance. Those churches that seem to deal heavily

:18:44.:18:50.

in this business of casting out demons, I feel they are being

:18:50.:18:56.

called in the film, evangelicals and African, I think it is an abuse

:18:56.:19:00.

of a term of evangelical. Just on the question of what you can

:19:01.:19:06.

actually do about it now, how can you be engaged, we heard of project

:19:06.:19:11.

Vie -- Project Violet there and a Government working group, but if it

:19:11.:19:14.

is happening in people's homes, as we heard in the report, is

:19:14.:19:18.

particularly scary? It is absolutely scary. I completely

:19:18.:19:24.

agree with what the Bishop said. We have many organisations operating

:19:24.:19:30.

on the periphery of Christianity, who are actually very dominant in

:19:30.:19:35.

our communities, absolutely. This is where people go to for help and

:19:35.:19:42.

support. These organisations are very largely unregulated, nobody

:19:42.:19:46.

knows they are there. They are operating in people's homes, in

:19:46.:19:51.

garages, school halls and so forth. Nobody actually is bothered about

:19:51.:19:55.

doing anything to, at least, control them some how, so they are

:19:55.:20:02.

growing, they are spreading, and, of course, people go there, they

:20:02.:20:09.

can actually be abused and exploited in different ways. Angus

:20:09.:20:16.

nodded to the fact that money is a factor in some cases, is that true?

:20:16.:20:19.

If a child goes to one of the called churches on a Sunday, and

:20:19.:20:23.

the pastor looks at the child and says this child has an evil spirit,

:20:23.:20:28.

that is branding. For that child to be delivered, or exorcised, the

:20:28.:20:32.

parents will have to pay some amount of money for that child to

:20:33.:20:38.

be exorcised. That is, in my view, exploitation. Have you any idea how

:20:38.:20:45.

much of it goes on, how much of the exploitation, how many exorisms

:20:45.:20:55.
:20:55.:20:56.

there are, or issues of deliverance. I don't have an idea, I don't know

:20:57.:21:01.

what is going on in the local churches, I focus on the church I

:21:01.:21:06.

lead. How often would it happen in your church? From my experience, as

:21:06.:21:11.

a minister for ten years, I have never come across a case where the

:21:11.:21:15.

parent brought a child and accuse him of witchcraft. That hasn't

:21:15.:21:18.

happened to me before, being in the ministry. If it does happen, I will

:21:18.:21:23.

know, as the bishop says, how to handle the case. I cannot go

:21:23.:21:27.

straight away to exorcise the children, maybe counsel the parent

:21:27.:21:34.

and just help them, as the bishop just said. Briefly, do you think,

:21:34.:21:38.

this is obviously a shocking case, will we have other cases like this,

:21:38.:21:42.

because so much of it goes on underground? I hope it is not

:21:42.:21:45.

inevitable, we don't know the extent of it. Some research was

:21:45.:21:55.
:21:55.:21:55.

done by the Department of Education between 2000-2005, it identified 38

:21:55.:22:04.

cases of child abuse linked to possessions. We know it is not a

:22:04.:22:08.

regular thing. The message I want to send to everyone, yes, we are

:22:08.:22:13.

not trying to prescribe what you believe, but whatever it is you

:22:13.:22:17.

believe, you are not permitted to abuse, let alone kill a child.

:22:18.:22:21.

Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu shared more than a belief in witchcraft

:22:21.:22:24.

and spirit possession. Newsnight has uncovered startling details

:22:24.:22:29.

about their chaotic childhoods, as a 13-year-old Magalie Bamu was sent

:22:29.:22:34.

to live in Britain and treated like a domestic servant. She and Eric

:22:34.:22:38.

Bikubi were involved in private fostering arrangements. It has led

:22:38.:22:42.

to concerns about the lack of regulation, and the potentially

:22:42.:22:48.

catastrophic impact such arrangements can have on children.

:22:48.:22:56.

A child arrives alone in the UK. She's picked up by a family she

:22:56.:22:59.

doesn't know. Once out of the airport, as far as the authorities

:22:59.:23:05.

are concerned, she disappears. There is no promised better life,

:23:05.:23:13.

no school, just hard work. Shift, nonsense, stupid, rush

:23:13.:23:16.

bishop girl. Charities believe thousands of children arrive every

:23:16.:23:20.

year in the UK to be fostered privately. Some are well looked

:23:20.:23:25.

after, but for the vast majority, what happens to them is a mystery.

:23:25.:23:30.

This case, though, has revealed the fate of two such children.

:23:30.:23:34.

Magalie Bamu told the court she was sent to London at the age of 13 to

:23:34.:23:37.

live with a family she had never met. She was made to cook, clean,

:23:37.:23:43.

look after the children, and didn't go to school. Eric Bikubi was also

:23:43.:23:47.

privately fostered by someone he wasn't related to. And, at the age

:23:47.:23:52.

of 24, was allowed to become the main carer for two teenage girls he

:23:52.:23:58.

said were his sisters. A claim Newsnight has discovered was false.

:23:59.:24:04.

But why was Eric Bikubi allowed to foster two girls aged 15 and 16. As

:24:04.:24:09.

a child himself, he had been looked after by a family friend, before

:24:09.:24:12.

going into local authority foster care in Camden. He was last in

:24:12.:24:16.

touch with social services there in early 2007.

:24:16.:24:20.

That same year Hackney, where he was briefly living, approved the

:24:20.:24:25.

private fostering arrangement. Eventhough, by then, he already had

:24:25.:24:29.

three criminal convictions, one for having a knife in a public place.

:24:29.:24:34.

Hackney told us they made all relevant checks as did barking and

:24:34.:24:39.

Dagenham, where the girls had originally been staying. This man,

:24:39.:24:46.

who has asked to be called BB is Eric's cousin, the girls were, in

:24:46.:24:52.

fact, his sisters, brought from the Congo to live with him. In 2007 the

:24:52.:24:58.

girls told social services that BB hit them, allegations later to be

:24:58.:25:02.

proved false. Eric became their carer, after telling the council he

:25:02.:25:07.

was their brother. These two girls were not his sisters, but he said

:25:07.:25:14.

they were. They weren't his sisters, but his their cousin. Why did

:25:14.:25:17.

social services allow your sisters to go and live with Eric? They

:25:17.:25:21.

don't know what they are doing, that is all I can say. Many

:25:21.:25:24.

children from diverse backgrounds come to the UK to be looked after

:25:24.:25:29.

by their extended families, and thrive, others, though, become

:25:29.:25:34.

commodities, moved across borders and exploited. The death of

:25:34.:25:39.

Victoria Climbie, in the year 2000, threw the unregulated nature of

:25:39.:25:43.

private fostering arrangements into sharp focus. The inquiry into her

:25:43.:25:47.

death heard that she came here with her great aunt on a false passport,

:25:48.:25:52.

didn't go to school, and was used for benefit fraud. Finally she was

:25:52.:25:59.

beaten and starved to death. You, go through. New regulations

:25:59.:26:03.

introduced in 2005 required private foster carers to register with the

:26:03.:26:07.

local authorities. But seven years on, Newsnight has learned that in

:26:07.:26:14.

many cases this simply isn't happening. Charities say as many as

:26:14.:26:18.

10,000 children may be privately fostered, but official figures show

:26:18.:26:23.

there are 1500 in England, just over a thousand in Scotland, 68 in

:26:23.:26:25.

Wales, and just six in Northern Ireland.

:26:25.:26:31.

So as many as 75% may be unregistered, unknown to social

:26:31.:26:35.

services, and unsupervised by the child protection system.

:26:35.:26:39.

Currently what will happen is a child will come in on a visitor

:26:39.:26:42.

visa, with either a parent or a relative, they will then be lift

:26:42.:26:47.

with a relative, friend, whom ever, and the other adult who brought

:26:47.:26:51.

them will go back to the country of origin. The child will then

:26:52.:26:54.

overstay their visitor visa, they will stay beyond six months, maybe

:26:55.:26:58.

three years, maybe ten years, we have had cases that they have been

:26:58.:27:03.

in the UK. They may be impress soned in the home, or their

:27:03.:27:11.

movements completely circumscribed, or worse, we have had cases of

:27:11.:27:14.

extreme sexual and physical abuse with these children, or they are

:27:14.:27:18.

home help. If they are in school, nobody asks questions about their

:27:18.:27:24.

immigration status. That is exactly what happened to Gabrielle, sent

:27:24.:27:31.

from London from Jamaica at the age of 12, her great uncle picked her

:27:31.:27:35.

up from the airport and left her with a family she didn't know, and

:27:35.:27:39.

then left. He told me he was going to come back. Had you met the

:27:39.:27:44.

friends before? No, he just told me they were friends. I was crying,

:27:44.:27:51.

every night I was crying. I was thinking what is this? It wasn't

:27:51.:28:01.
:28:01.:28:06.

good. How safe did you feel in this house? If you would like to stop

:28:06.:28:15.

for a while? I wasn't safe. I was nowhere near safe. I used to lock

:28:15.:28:22.

myself in, because I used to be there by myself most of the time.

:28:22.:28:32.
:28:32.:28:34.

Did the woman hurt you? She would hit me.

:28:34.:28:38.

Unlike some children, Gabrielle did eventually go to school. But no-one

:28:38.:28:48.
:28:48.:28:49.

tried to find out how she was living, or who with. Lisa Nandy is

:28:49.:28:52.

a Labour member of the Education Select Committee, she believes a

:28:52.:28:55.

combination of ideology and budget cuts, means even the limited

:28:55.:29:00.

progress made since the death of Victoria Climbie is being reversed.

:29:00.:29:05.

We know since 2005, with a lot of families struggling, that the

:29:05.:29:12.

number of children we know about in the private fostering area is

:29:12.:29:17.

growing. We know that childrens' services have taken huge cuts to

:29:17.:29:21.

their budget. The Government has pursued a course of watering down

:29:21.:29:25.

the duty to co-operate between agencies, which did so much to

:29:25.:29:29.

improve the situation post-Victoria Climbie. It is pretty apparent we

:29:29.:29:33.

are moving in the wrong direction. We should be putting more focus

:29:33.:29:36.

into resources and changing the culture to keep children safe.

:29:36.:29:40.

Instead we are doing less. In court, in her defence, Magalie

:29:40.:29:44.

Bamu spoke about the damaging impact of her time being privately

:29:44.:29:51.

fostered. We also know that Eric Bikubi, who now faces life in

:29:51.:29:55.

prison for killing a child, was both privately fostered, and

:29:55.:29:59.

allowed to foster two teenage girls. The case of Bamu and Bikubi, though

:29:59.:30:02.

unique in its brutality, also shines a light on a system which

:30:02.:30:06.

still allows children to vanish into a world free from official

:30:06.:30:11.

oversight. Where thousands remain hidden in plain view.

:30:12.:30:15.

Joining us now from Birmingham is Hilton Dawson, chief executive of

:30:16.:30:20.

the British Association of Social workers. Talk us through your

:30:20.:30:24.

concerns about the private fostering? I think it is well

:30:24.:30:29.

revealed by your film. We believe there are thousands of children, we

:30:29.:30:37.

have no idea how many there are. You quote something like 10,000, it

:30:37.:30:41.

could easily be 20,000 children in this country. Who have no

:30:41.:30:43.

protection, they are not living with their parents, who may be

:30:43.:30:48.

living in good circumstances, but some of whom may be living in

:30:48.:30:52.

disastrous ones. It is true that there may be some, teenagers,

:30:52.:30:57.

getting into trouble, go and live with a family friend for a while,

:30:57.:31:00.

that is probably a good thing for them. How do you make sure you

:31:00.:31:05.

don't stop that, while you stop some of this? I have no idea why

:31:05.:31:10.

successive Governments haven't brought in a simple registration

:31:10.:31:15.

system, where one agency would have a particular role to make sure that

:31:15.:31:19.

people who were interested, legitimately, in private fostering,

:31:19.:31:23.

registered, were checked out, were given training, and were given

:31:23.:31:28.

support for what is a very, very important job. It is no good simply

:31:28.:31:33.

to blame this Government. The previous Government and I was a

:31:33.:31:38.

backbencher under it, had at least three opportunities to amend

:31:38.:31:43.

legislation to bring such a system in. Is that what it would take,

:31:43.:31:51.

would it take new legislation in order to do this? There would be a

:31:51.:31:57.

need to change the legislation. But that could be done very easily. It

:31:57.:32:01.

is the political will that's lacking. I don't even think there

:32:01.:32:05.

would need to be a huge investment. What there needs to be is a focus

:32:05.:32:09.

and a clear determination to protect these children. Isn't one

:32:09.:32:12.

of the problems, I know you must come across this all the time in

:32:12.:32:15.

your work, there is no amount of regulation, or legislation, or

:32:15.:32:20.

indeed work by social workers, which can actually regulate human

:32:20.:32:24.

wickedness? That's absolutely the case. You can help by putting

:32:24.:32:29.

effective systems in place, you can ensure that, as I say, that people

:32:30.:32:35.

who do properly want to do private fostering, and provide, and want to

:32:35.:32:40.

provide decent circumstances for children, whose parents

:32:40.:32:44.

legitimately need to have them looked after, in which they can get

:32:44.:32:51.

support, in a way where you can target those out to exploit and

:32:51.:33:00.

abuse and vilely mistreat children. The United Nations Security Council,

:33:00.:33:05.

in an unusual display of single mindedness on Syria, tonight

:33:05.:33:09.

demanded that the UN's humanitarian chief, Valerie Amos be allowed into

:33:09.:33:14.

the country immediately Russia and chine knee even agreed. It comes as

:33:14.:33:18.

the rebel Free Syrian Army said it was withdrawing from the Baba Amr

:33:18.:33:23.

district of Homs, in the hope of protecting civilians from

:33:23.:33:29.

continuing bloodshed. Pictures on the Internet appear to show further

:33:29.:33:36.

fighting. And what looks like the civilians collecting snow to use as

:33:36.:33:40.

drinking water. President Assad's Government has said they will be

:33:40.:33:45.

allowed in tomorrow to provide aid. I'm joined by a Syrian opposition

:33:45.:33:48.

activist, who has been trying to find out what is going on in Homs

:33:48.:33:52.

and elsewhere. What kind of picture is emerging in Homs, do you think?

:33:52.:33:57.

It has calmed down, the last four or five hours. Before that the

:33:57.:34:02.

level of violence inflicted on that particular district of Homs has

:34:02.:34:06.

been horrendous. We have been losing people on a daily basis,

:34:07.:34:09.

especially people who have taken it upon themselves to get the

:34:09.:34:13.

information out, and provide us with information on the numbers of

:34:13.:34:18.

the casualties that this particular part of the city is suffering. This

:34:18.:34:23.

isn't available any more, they say they can't even count the bodies.

:34:23.:34:27.

There are bodies trapped inside flats. Especially in the western

:34:27.:34:32.

side of the district, where the Syrian regular army personnel have

:34:32.:34:38.

actually reached, and now they are raiding those areas, house-to-house,

:34:38.:34:42.

and conducting house-to-house arrests. Some families, we have

:34:42.:34:46.

confirmed information of some familiar lose that have been killed

:34:46.:34:52.

from a short distance, by the security officers of the Syrian

:34:52.:34:56.

regular army. What do you mean by a short distance, as close as we are?

:34:57.:35:01.

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate how difficult it is to find out

:35:01.:35:08.

anything reliably from there. Presumably with the Red Crescent

:35:08.:35:12.

and the Red Cross going in tomorrow, that is good news, isn't it? It is

:35:12.:35:16.

good news. This is what we have been calling for. We want observers,

:35:16.:35:19.

international NGOs to access those areas, because the regime, believe

:35:19.:35:25.

it or not, take into consideration the presence of foreign media and

:35:25.:35:28.

journalists and international observers. They don't want any

:35:28.:35:31.

evidence to emerge about what they are doing. Part of the problem that

:35:31.:35:36.

we have faced is actually the regime attempt to cut off the city

:35:36.:35:41.

of Homs entirely. They haven't managed, only because of the

:35:41.:35:45.

closeness of Homs to Lebanon, and because of some satellite phones

:35:45.:35:49.

that were available to some of the activists. But the regime is trying

:35:49.:35:55.

to keep everyone out, and this is getting those international NGOs

:35:55.:35:59.

inside those areas, is actually what we want, and what we have been

:35:59.:36:04.

calling for. To get the regime to stop this military assault on the

:36:04.:36:11.

area. What do you make of the free Syrian armyo saying they are having

:36:11.:36:15.

a tactical withdrawal. They have small arms and they can't take

:36:15.:36:19.

head-on tanks and heavy artillery, it is more than a tactical retreat,

:36:19.:36:24.

it is just a retreat? I'm afraid the whole picture about the Free

:36:24.:36:28.

Syrian Army has been exaggerated, partly because some elements of the

:36:29.:36:32.

opposition itself in exile, and by some of the officers, the defected

:36:32.:36:42.
:36:42.:36:43.

officers in exile. Who are actually building up this illusion about the

:36:43.:36:47.

capability of the free Syrian army. They are inexperience conscripts

:36:47.:36:52.

who defected from the army fearing foretheir lives, and actually,

:36:52.:36:57.

armed lightly with Kalashnikovs, they are no match for the Syrian

:36:57.:37:05.

regular army. The problem is, the regime now is using that kind of

:37:05.:37:09.

talk about what they are capable of to raise the level of aggression,

:37:09.:37:14.

and the military operation, as an excuse that there are actually more

:37:14.:37:19.

than just a group of lightly armed people. There is actually an army

:37:19.:37:23.

there, a Free Syrian Army. This Free Syrian Army thing does not

:37:23.:37:27.

exist. We have groups of people, defected conscripts who have

:37:27.:37:30.

gathered together and stuck together, because this is their

:37:30.:37:35.

only chance of survival, until they make it to the closest borders to

:37:35.:37:40.

them, in this case it would be Turkey. Thank you for your insights.

:37:40.:37:44.

Now, European leaders met, yet again, in Brussels today, this time

:37:44.:37:48.

not with the immediate Greek bailout on the agenda, but how to

:37:48.:37:53.

stop a future eurocrisis from wrecking the world economy. The

:37:53.:37:58.

International Monetary Fund wants an extra �500 billion dollars for

:37:58.:38:01.

the firewall. Christine Lagarde says European countries must pay up

:38:01.:38:04.

first. We have had special access to Christine Lagarde over the past

:38:04.:38:09.

month, as she tries to stitch together a plan which "might"

:38:10.:38:19.
:38:20.:38:20.

prevent the next financial disaster. As Europe lurchs from crisis to

:38:20.:38:23.

crisis, Christine Lagarde is on a mission to warn the world not to

:38:23.:38:31.

ignore the lessons of history. could easily slide into what we

:38:31.:38:37.

call a 1930s moment. A moment ultimately leading to downward

:38:37.:38:41.

spiral, that could very much engulf the entire world. To her friends

:38:41.:38:45.

she's the "Trillion Dollar Woman", pushing Europe to help itself,

:38:45.:38:49.

before seeking help from others. has taken one of their own to tell

:38:49.:38:54.

the truth. To critics she's a former French Finance Minister, who

:38:54.:38:59.

is still too soft on her native continent. To put the fox in charge

:38:59.:39:03.

of the hen house is a high-risk strategy. What friend and critics

:39:03.:39:07.

agree on is that Christine Lagarde is a central figure in the biggest

:39:08.:39:11.

financial crisis of our lifetimes. What were you looking for in some

:39:11.:39:16.

where to live? A place where I could see the sky and be able to

:39:16.:39:22.

open windows in the morning. Almost 40 years after interning on Capitol

:39:22.:39:26.

Hill, Christine Lagarde is back in Washington, as the first female

:39:26.:39:30.

head of the International Monetary Fund. We are not walking very fast.

:39:30.:39:36.

Normally I walk a lot faster. I work so hard and such long hours, I

:39:36.:39:40.

don't have much time to exercise. We will pick up the pace for you?

:39:40.:39:45.

Good, good, good. You can wake up every day to a new crisis? Yes.

:39:45.:39:50.

Every morning I wake up and I wonder where is it going to crack.

:39:50.:39:54.

You arrive at work and think how will you fix it? Thank you, I will

:39:54.:39:58.

see you later. The biggest cracks right now are in Europe. In our

:39:58.:40:02.

first interview, Lagarde made it clear, her real fear is that this

:40:02.:40:07.

crisis could easily spread right around the globe. All countries,

:40:07.:40:12.

all economies of the world are likely to be affected by what is

:40:12.:40:15.

happening in one key region of the world. Much more so than at the

:40:15.:40:19.

time of the Latin American crisis or the Asian crisis. That is why

:40:19.:40:23.

Lagarde believes that, like it or not, everyone has an interest in

:40:23.:40:27.

paying for the financial medicine. It is a tough sell when there is so

:40:27.:40:31.

much scepticism over whether the latest bailout has really cured the

:40:31.:40:36.

cause of the illness, Greece. Isn't this really just a sticking

:40:36.:40:40.

plaster for what is effectively a gaping wound? It is a huge big Band

:40:40.:40:47.

Aid in my view. The problem that -- band aid in my view. The problem is,

:40:47.:40:51.

will it be implemented, given the magnitude of efforts that need to

:40:51.:40:55.

be undertaken. Or are you throwing good money after bad money? That is

:40:55.:41:00.

the whole question, it is a question of trust. Do the European

:41:00.:41:06.

partners trust their partner, Greece, to actually deliver on this

:41:06.:41:09.

ambitious programme. But if Greece continues not to deliver, then why

:41:09.:41:15.

is the IMF fighting so hard and paying so much to keep the eurozone

:41:15.:41:20.

intact. The IMF's former chief economist

:41:20.:41:26.

says the fund's fund strategy simply ignores the truth about

:41:26.:41:30.

Greece's finances. The European political leadership and the

:41:30.:41:37.

European bankers have agreed among themselves to pretend this is not a

:41:37.:41:42.

default situation. Madame Lagarde has, on some aspects, hifrpbted at

:41:42.:41:46.

the truth -- hinted at the truth, and perhaps we should commend her

:41:46.:41:50.

for that, relative to the alternatives. But has the IMF come

:41:50.:41:57.

clean, or emphasised, or spoken sufficiently frankly about the true

:41:57.:42:00.

nature of the European problems, wait in which those can still

:42:00.:42:04.

spread within the eurozone, and what you must now do with regard to

:42:04.:42:08.

Italian sovereign debt, I don't think it has. Lagarde bristles at

:42:08.:42:13.

the suggestion that she has given Europe special treatment. I feel

:42:13.:42:18.

very much managing director of the IMF, which includes 188 members,

:42:18.:42:23.

I'm no longer French and European. Lagarde is on her way to Mexico

:42:23.:42:27.

City for the G20 Summit, and she has invited to us join her. How

:42:27.:42:32.

many flights have you taken this year? Oof, too many, but many, many,

:42:32.:42:37.

many, many. If I couldn't sleep on a plane, I couldn't do the job I'm

:42:37.:42:44.

doing. Her job on this trip is to raise an extra $500 million for the

:42:44.:42:48.

IMF. That would double the size of the global firewall, designed to

:42:48.:42:52.

insulate the world's global economy against any worsening of the

:42:52.:43:02.

European crisis. It is on this stage of global finance that

:43:02.:43:07.

Lagarde performs best. She is the rock star for whom the Japanese

:43:07.:43:11.

Finance Minister waits, a little nervously. The woman in a largely

:43:11.:43:17.

male world, who is trying to convince America, Europe, and the

:43:17.:43:21.

increasingly confident emerging economies, to each surrender their

:43:21.:43:27.

domestic political interests to the greater global good. I would love

:43:27.:43:30.

some tea, I haven't had anything today. It is pretty horrible, I

:43:30.:43:34.

made it myself. We caught up with Lagarde and her staff as they

:43:34.:43:39.

planned the G20 sessions. The night before is a dinner with ministers

:43:39.:43:44.

only, ministers and governors of Central Banks only. Today, during

:43:44.:43:49.

the course of the meeting, there will be more people in the room.

:43:49.:43:54.

Generally the dinner is the time when people can make some pointed

:43:54.:43:57.

comments that they would not necessarily make very publicly.

:43:57.:44:00.

country that has no problem saying what it thinks in public is

:44:00.:44:08.

Europe's dominant player. Unflapable, even under the

:44:08.:44:12.

considerable discomfort of five pints of beer down her back, Angela

:44:12.:44:17.

Merkel is resisting pressure to add more funds to Europe's firewall.

:44:17.:44:21.

You have a good relationship with Angela Merkel, isn't it frustrating

:44:21.:44:26.

for you that she won't move faster? It is a matter of patience and

:44:26.:44:29.

resilience, I won't give up. Equally, she does not want to be

:44:29.:44:33.

rushed into a process, unless she has covered all the angles and all

:44:33.:44:39.

the issues. I think it is one of her many, many talents. It is the

:44:39.:44:44.

same way Lagarde herself operates. She's always very good with the

:44:44.:44:46.

British media, does endless Newsnight interviews, we have done

:44:46.:44:52.

it a couple of times as a double act. She has used it to build a

:44:52.:44:56.

powerful alliance of non-eurozone politicians, that includes the man

:44:56.:45:00.

who first nominated her for this job. Christine Lagarde is here in

:45:00.:45:03.

Mexico, effectively with a begging bowl, asking the other countries of

:45:03.:45:08.

the world to step up money for the IMF firewall, will you contribute

:45:08.:45:12.

to that? Britain would only think about contributing if the eurozone

:45:12.:45:16.

puts more money into its own firewall. That is a position that

:45:16.:45:20.

is also shared by the Japanese, the Canadians, the Australians and many

:45:20.:45:23.

other countries in the world. Until we see the colour of the eurozone

:45:23.:45:28.

money, we're not prepared to put our own money in. And right there

:45:28.:45:33.

is Lagarde's biggest hurdle, democratically elected politicians

:45:33.:45:38.

will always put their own interests first. It is the reason tackling

:45:38.:45:42.

global debt has been so hard. It is why, amid signs of progress,

:45:42.:45:49.

Lagarde leaves us with this warning, this crisis isn't over yet.

:45:49.:45:54.

A quick look atom morning's front pages, the Independent has Kristy

:45:54.:45:58.

Bamu on the front page and a story about Vince Cable begging US bosses

:45:58.:46:04.

not to shut the UK car plant. The Vauxhall factory at Ellesmere

:46:04.:46:14.
:46:14.:46:36.

That's all from Newsnight tonight, back with more tomorrow. We wanted

:46:36.:46:46.
:46:46.:46:48.

to leave you with news that 75- year-old Eng lebert Humperdink has

:46:48.:46:53.

been selected by England to represent them in the Eurovision

:46:53.:46:56.

Song Contest, up against Jedward, they have been favourite to win up

:46:56.:47:06.

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