Browse content similar to 01/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, tortured and drowned by a member of his own familiarly 15- | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
year-old Christie Bamu's murders believed he was possessed by demons. | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
We will talk to church leaders and child protection experts to explore | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
the links between the belief in evil spirits, kindoki, and religion. | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
Thousands of children have been sent here to people they have never | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
met and come under contact of the authorities. We have had cases of | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
extreme physical and sexual abuse of these children, and if they are | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
in school, nobody asks questions about their immigration status. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
Fighting gives way in Homs, the army may take further revenge on | :00:48. | :00:55. | |
civilians, it is feared. We will ask an activist what he is hearing | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
about the rebellion. We are on the road with the IMF. | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
She's on the road, Newsnight interviews, as a double act. | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Christine Lagarde's talents have impressed George Osborne, but can | :01:07. | :01:17. | |
:01:17. | :01:18. | ||
anyone really solve the eurozone crisis? | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
There were more than 100 injuries on the body of Kristy Bamu, within | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
I was finally drowned in a bath in a flat in East London on Christmas | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
Day. Today his sister and her husband | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
were convicted of one of the worst cases of child abuse seen in | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
Britain. Their brutality was driven by a belief in kindoki, that he was | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
possessed by an evil spirit that had to be driven from him. We | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
report on extremely disturbing case. What took place in the Kristy Bamu | :01:52. | :02:02. | |
case is a leap to something utterly ferral, it goes way beyond the | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
bounds Feral, it goes way beyond the bounds of normality. We know | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
lots of children are dying in silence and suffering in silence. | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
Two years ago Kristy Bamu travelled from Paris, with his siblings, to | :02:16. | :02:23. | |
spend Christmas with their sister, Mag alie, he arrived at this tower | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
block in London in East London in September, but he never left. | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
Christmas Day 2010, paramedics are called to this flat, 248, in the | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
bath they find a 15-year-old boy, he's dead. He has 100 separate | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
injuries. There is blood splattered on the floor, on the walls, even on | :02:42. | :02:49. | |
the ceiling. The abuse began when he wet himself, the bathroom door | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
was locked and he couldn't get in. Embarrassed he hid his underpants | :02:54. | :03:03. | |
in the kitchen, Eric Bikubi found them, and accused him of trying to | :03:03. | :03:11. | |
pollute the food using kindoki, they were forced to fast and pray. | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
But Kristy was singled out, being hit with the hammer in the face and | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
tortured with a pliers. He was begging them to let him die. | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
Finally he was put into a bath of water, as Kristy drowned, Eric | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
Bikubi talked about the power of God. In the hours before Kristy | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
died, he spoke to his father in Paris, he begged to be collected | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
from London, because he said Eric was going to kill him. | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
But by the time his father had borrowed the money for the ferry, | :03:45. | :03:53. | |
his son was already dead. TRANSLATION: There is a pain in my | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
heart, this pain, I can't explain it. It took me at least a week-and- | :03:58. | :04:08. | |
:04:08. | :04:08. | ||
a-half before I started eating again. It is tough, really tough. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
This is unimaginable. The children went to London, because I had | :04:12. | :04:22. | |
confidence in Eric, but one of them came back in a coffin. | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
But to understand what happened to Kristy Bamu, you have to look at | :04:26. | :04:36. | |
:04:36. | :04:38. | ||
the Congalese culture of kinddoky. What has happened in -- What has | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
happened is this idea of kindoki possession has taken hold in the | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
Congalese. It is hard to find people now who don't think it is | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
real or believe in it. We could be talking about 25 million people in | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
the Congo, and other parts of Africa and outside Africa, who | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
believe in this possession by witchcraft, or wind doky. In the | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
past -- Wind doky. In the past it was believed -- Kindoki. In the | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
past it was believed only old people can be possessed. Because of | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
war children were made into child soldiers and became objects of fair. | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
Evangelical Chris tannity has flooded the country, mixing | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
religious and culture. It is now children who are seen to carry the | :05:29. | :05:39. | |
:05:39. | :05:39. | ||
contagion of kindoki. These beliefs know no borders, they | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
have simply followed migrants as they have moved to Europe. Where it | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
is very, very prevalent is in these communities where everything is | :05:50. | :05:58. | |
justified on the basis of belief, misfortune, poverty, sickness. It | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
can lead to neglect, because people will stop looking after the child, | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
and here we have seen cases where children have been refused food, to | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
starve them, in the belief that to weaken the evil spirit. That's | :06:12. | :06:21. | |
completely wrong. This woman and her sister Christine, | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
grew up with Magalie Bamu, they say the believe in kindoki is | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
widespread here as it is in the Congalese. Is it possible for | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
somebody to be kindoki or possessed by evil spirits. It is very | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
possible. When you say is it possible, they are, there are many | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
people who are. If you watch Harry Potter that is kindoki, I would | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
personally not let my child watch those kinds of programmes, Harry | :06:51. | :06:58. | |
Potter, scam charmed, it is exactly what happens, you watch these | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
movies and see how an evil spirit would go into someone. In the | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
Jamesd of Jesus Christ. In 2005, Newsnight investigated how some | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
churches with African roots, operating in Britain, were | :07:12. | :07:20. | |
fostering the idea of demonic possession, of adults and children. | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
Since the death of Victoria Climbie, in the year 2000, who was killed | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
partly because of that belief, the authorities have not been idle. | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
There has been widespread training of police, social workers and | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
pastors, a special police unite, Project Violet -- unit, project | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
Violet was set up, and there is a working group chaired by a minister. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
Despite those efforts, African churches continue to spring up | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
across London, as migrant communities search for identity and | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
security, most are entirely begin nine, but some do preach a muscular | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
belief in witchcraft. There is little outside regulation of any of | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
their activities. We now know that Eric Bikubi came here, to the | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
Holloway Road in London, looking for Nigerian churches, looking to | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
back up his belief in spirit possession. | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
This is a film released by one of the most high-profile evangelical | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
churchs in Nigeria. Children receive their instructions from the | :08:22. | :08:30. | |
devil, to wreek havoc in their homes. | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
- in the UK, cases like the one moving Kristy Bamu and Eric Bikubi | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
are very rare. But professionals believe that potentially dangerous | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
beliefs are escaping the relative control of churches and going | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
underground. One of the most disturbing aspects of the case, | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
this is at least the third case where an and deliverance or | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
something of that sort has taken place in a home, Victoria Climbie, | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
Child B, and now this case, Kristy Bamu. In the Congo, in the DLC, and | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
other parts of Africa, I'm not condoning what pastors do for a | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
second, I'm condoning the churches, but at least there was a measure of | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
control. What happened here was totally feral and out of control, | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
and nobody seemed to notice what was going on, because they did it | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
in their home, that is frightening. Though not regular churchgoers, | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
Kristy's killers had strong beliefs, but from where, 24-hour religious | :09:31. | :09:39. | |
channels on TV or on-line, or on DVDs, easily on this market in East | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
London. My guide doesn't want to be identified for fear of being | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
ostracised by his community. How easy would it be for you here to | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
buy videos talking about kindoki? There is a shop there, with that | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
guy, round the corner. Do people take them seriously or is it just | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
entertainment? A bit of both. But it is never questioned. So people | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
never question kindoki? Never. that children can be po tesed. We | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
took -- possessed. We took what we bought to a cafe to watch. We | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
bought this around the corner. Some have lurid covers and others | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
are bootlegs. Yeah. All of them have scenes of deliverance. Heavy, | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
especially this one. This drama, made in kins Shas is a, a pastor | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
miraculously heels a blind boy, by miraculously delivering him of the | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
evil spir rite We don't know what is going -- Spirit. We don't know | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
what is going on underground, what abuse there is. The evil spirit, | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
that is the spirit of infestation, and diseases. There are those in | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
the Congalese community that want to tackle the problem head on, here | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
a group of teenagers perform a play about kindoki, a pastor accuse as | :11:08. | :11:15. | |
child, performs an exorism and then demands payment. It has been shown | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
to churchgoers and workers. Since the death of Victoria Climbie, the | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
authorities have focused on tackling abuse, not the beliefs | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
behind it. Some, though, feel it is time to recognise there are ideas | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
just too toxic to leave unchallenged. | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
The block is white middle-class people who don't want to touch the | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
liberal multicultural agenda. John Sentamu saying once that the | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
ultimate no-no for a white liberal was to tell a black person that | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
they are wrong. But we have to get through this, it is beyond just | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
skin colour. We have to grow up. It is only a matter of time, I'm | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
afraid, unless we take action, before there are more children that | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
are abused, or indeed, horrendous though it will be, killed because | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
of this belief system, that is why we have to tackle it. The Old | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
Bailey was old that Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu, came from chaotic, | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
dysfuntional backgrounds, for them witchcraft was real and powerful, | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
it gave an explanation for every misfortune. In their fear and anger | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
they turned on a child, who couldn't defend himself. Kristy | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
paid with his life for their warped and distorted faith. | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
We will hear more on that in a moment. I'm joined now by bishop | :12:37. | :12:45. | |
Joe Aldred, Ariyo from AFRUCA, and Modeste Muyulu, a Congalese pastor | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
of the French Christian community at Beth they will church. How swied | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
spread -- Bethel Church. How widespread is the belief of kindoki | :12:55. | :13:03. | |
in the UK? It would apear that the belief may well be widespread -- | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
appear that the belief is widespread. It is also that it can | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
be set in a wider context. It is not unusual that we have the word | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
"witch-hunt" in the English vocabulary, it goes back centuries | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
and is universal. This particular strain, while we are clear that not | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
every day it appears we get this kind of incident, but every time it | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
happens it is so traumatic, and though a specialist end of the | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
whole thing, it is pretty scary. you find a lot of pastors equate | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
some bad behaviour in children with some kind of possession by spirits? | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
That's not my experience. In fact, my role with Churches Together, is | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
largely to support the black Christian community across the | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
country. I would say, I come across this hardly at all. But the reason | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
for that, of course, is because by the time you come to churches which | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
are members of Churches Together in England, you are dealing very often | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
with the safer end of the Christian community. The challenge is how we | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
reach those operating largely on the boundaries of Christianity, and | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
behaving in ways which are dangerous to children. Modeste | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
Muyulu, you believe some people can be possessed by evil spirits? | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
I do believe that some people can be possessed by evil spirits, and | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
that I also believe that witchcraft is real, but the problem is how you | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
deal with it. How do you know, to begin with, how do you know that a | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
child, for example is possessed with a spirit? I cannot be | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
suspicious to somebody and accuse him to be possessed by the evil | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
spirit. I cannot do that, because it is not my duty to do that. | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
you believe it does happen. For instance, in this case, we heard of | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
a 15-year-old who wet himself, I mean, is that something that would | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
be some kind of sign that this person potentially could be | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
possessed by evil spirits or not? To me, wetting the bed could not be | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
a sign of being possessed by the evil spirit, that's my belief. | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
those who are possessed or you have reason to believe are possessed, | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
relieving them of the spirit, getting rid of that demon, is that | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
being seen as doing something good for that person? Yes. We can pray | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
just a simple prayer, with love, with kprags, without doing any -- | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
compassion, without doing any harm to the person, without being | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
violent. If the person thinks he might be possessed. It is the | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
person who needs the prayer, I'm not going to accuse people and | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
force people to be prayed for. But if somebody thinks that he might | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
need the prayer, if he thinks that he might have a demon in him, just | :16:02. | :16:09. | |
a simple prayer with love, with compassion, without any violence we | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
can do that. Is that the line that people can believe as they wish but | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
no question of violence, that is where you draw the line? You can't | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
question what people choose to believe in, you can question | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
people's religion, we have a problem where religion mutates into | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
a harmful practice, where children are harmed and abused. As we have | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
seen in this case, children are actually killed. If you said to a | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
child, or of a child, this child is possessed, this child is possessed | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
by demons, isn't that harmful? believe it is harmful, because I | :16:48. | :16:55. | |
think that it is difficult, as we have seen now, to actually | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
determine what constitutes spirit possession. How do you know a child | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
is possessed of evil spirits, how do you know a child has witchcraft, | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
how can you tell? I haven't seen anybody who has been able to tell | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
me exactly how that diagnosis can be made. How do you tell, that is | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
surely the question if somebody is suspected of being possessed by | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
demons, how can you tell or how do you have a clue? As I earlier, it | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
is not a part that I have to play to accuse somebody, but if somebody, | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
if the person thinks that he might have an evil spirit, that is my | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
duty as a minister, just to pray for him. Do you take the point if | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
you say, particularly to a child, you are possessed by an evil spirit, | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
that is child abuse, isn't it? of the things I have been accusing | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
pastors to be wary of, of a case where somebody comes into a church | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
with a child and asks for prayer for the child because therapysed. | :17:59. | :18:08. | |
You have to be careful, I'm -- they are possessed. I'm saying don't do | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
that. You need to counsel further with that family to find out what | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
is going on with that child. There is a part of my Christian faith | :18:17. | :18:27. | |
:18:27. | :18:32. | ||
that seemed to pander just too much to you know evil spirit possession. | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
And the need to cast out or exorcise that demon. I'm getting on | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
in age, I have been a Christian all my life, it is not something that | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
is an every day occurrance. Those churches that seem to deal heavily | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
in this business of casting out demons, I feel they are being | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
called in the film, evangelicals and African, I think it is an abuse | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
of a term of evangelical. Just on the question of what you can | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
actually do about it now, how can you be engaged, we heard of project | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
Vie -- Project Violet there and a Government working group, but if it | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
is happening in people's homes, as we heard in the report, is | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
particularly scary? It is absolutely scary. I completely | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
agree with what the Bishop said. We have many organisations operating | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
on the periphery of Christianity, who are actually very dominant in | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
our communities, absolutely. This is where people go to for help and | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
support. These organisations are very largely unregulated, nobody | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
knows they are there. They are operating in people's homes, in | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
garages, school halls and so forth. Nobody actually is bothered about | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
doing anything to, at least, control them some how, so they are | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
growing, they are spreading, and, of course, people go there, they | :20:02. | :20:09. | |
can actually be abused and exploited in different ways. Angus | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
nodded to the fact that money is a factor in some cases, is that true? | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
If a child goes to one of the called churches on a Sunday, and | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
the pastor looks at the child and says this child has an evil spirit, | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
that is branding. For that child to be delivered, or exorcised, the | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
parents will have to pay some amount of money for that child to | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
be exorcised. That is, in my view, exploitation. Have you any idea how | :20:38. | :20:45. | |
much of it goes on, how much of the exploitation, how many exorisms | :20:45. | :20:55. | |
:20:55. | :20:56. | ||
there are, or issues of deliverance. I don't have an idea, I don't know | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
what is going on in the local churches, I focus on the church I | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
lead. How often would it happen in your church? From my experience, as | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
a minister for ten years, I have never come across a case where the | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
parent brought a child and accuse him of witchcraft. That hasn't | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
happened to me before, being in the ministry. If it does happen, I will | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
know, as the bishop says, how to handle the case. I cannot go | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
straight away to exorcise the children, maybe counsel the parent | :21:27. | :21:34. | |
and just help them, as the bishop just said. Briefly, do you think, | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
this is obviously a shocking case, will we have other cases like this, | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
because so much of it goes on underground? I hope it is not | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
inevitable, we don't know the extent of it. Some research was | :21:45. | :21:55. | |
:21:55. | :21:55. | ||
done by the Department of Education between 2000-2005, it identified 38 | :21:55. | :22:04. | |
cases of child abuse linked to possessions. We know it is not a | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
regular thing. The message I want to send to everyone, yes, we are | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
not trying to prescribe what you believe, but whatever it is you | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
believe, you are not permitted to abuse, let alone kill a child. | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu shared more than a belief in witchcraft | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
and spirit possession. Newsnight has uncovered startling details | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
about their chaotic childhoods, as a 13-year-old Magalie Bamu was sent | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
to live in Britain and treated like a domestic servant. She and Eric | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
Bikubi were involved in private fostering arrangements. It has led | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
to concerns about the lack of regulation, and the potentially | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
catastrophic impact such arrangements can have on children. | :22:48. | :22:56. | |
A child arrives alone in the UK. She's picked up by a family she | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
doesn't know. Once out of the airport, as far as the authorities | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
are concerned, she disappears. There is no promised better life, | :23:05. | :23:13. | |
no school, just hard work. Shift, nonsense, stupid, rush | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
bishop girl. Charities believe thousands of children arrive every | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
year in the UK to be fostered privately. Some are well looked | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
after, but for the vast majority, what happens to them is a mystery. | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
This case, though, has revealed the fate of two such children. | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
Magalie Bamu told the court she was sent to London at the age of 13 to | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
live with a family she had never met. She was made to cook, clean, | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
look after the children, and didn't go to school. Eric Bikubi was also | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
privately fostered by someone he wasn't related to. And, at the age | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
of 24, was allowed to become the main carer for two teenage girls he | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
said were his sisters. A claim Newsnight has discovered was false. | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
But why was Eric Bikubi allowed to foster two girls aged 15 and 16. As | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
a child himself, he had been looked after by a family friend, before | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
going into local authority foster care in Camden. He was last in | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
touch with social services there in early 2007. | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
That same year Hackney, where he was briefly living, approved the | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
private fostering arrangement. Eventhough, by then, he already had | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
three criminal convictions, one for having a knife in a public place. | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
Hackney told us they made all relevant checks as did barking and | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
Dagenham, where the girls had originally been staying. This man, | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
who has asked to be called BB is Eric's cousin, the girls were, in | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
fact, his sisters, brought from the Congo to live with him. In 2007 the | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
girls told social services that BB hit them, allegations later to be | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
proved false. Eric became their carer, after telling the council he | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
was their brother. These two girls were not his sisters, but he said | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
they were. They weren't his sisters, but his their cousin. Why did | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
social services allow your sisters to go and live with Eric? They | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
don't know what they are doing, that is all I can say. Many | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
children from diverse backgrounds come to the UK to be looked after | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
by their extended families, and thrive, others, though, become | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
commodities, moved across borders and exploited. The death of | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
Victoria Climbie, in the year 2000, threw the unregulated nature of | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
private fostering arrangements into sharp focus. The inquiry into her | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
death heard that she came here with her great aunt on a false passport, | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
didn't go to school, and was used for benefit fraud. Finally she was | :25:52. | :25:59. | |
beaten and starved to death. You, go through. New regulations | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
introduced in 2005 required private foster carers to register with the | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
local authorities. But seven years on, Newsnight has learned that in | :26:07. | :26:14. | |
many cases this simply isn't happening. Charities say as many as | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
10,000 children may be privately fostered, but official figures show | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
there are 1500 in England, just over a thousand in Scotland, 68 in | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
Wales, and just six in Northern Ireland. | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
So as many as 75% may be unregistered, unknown to social | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
services, and unsupervised by the child protection system. | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
Currently what will happen is a child will come in on a visitor | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
visa, with either a parent or a relative, they will then be lift | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
with a relative, friend, whom ever, and the other adult who brought | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
them will go back to the country of origin. The child will then | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
overstay their visitor visa, they will stay beyond six months, maybe | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
three years, maybe ten years, we have had cases that they have been | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
in the UK. They may be impress soned in the home, or their | :27:03. | :27:11. | |
movements completely circumscribed, or worse, we have had cases of | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
extreme sexual and physical abuse with these children, or they are | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
home help. If they are in school, nobody asks questions about their | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
immigration status. That is exactly what happened to Gabrielle, sent | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
from London from Jamaica at the age of 12, her great uncle picked her | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
up from the airport and left her with a family she didn't know, and | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
then left. He told me he was going to come back. Had you met the | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
friends before? No, he just told me they were friends. I was crying, | :27:44. | :27:51. | |
every night I was crying. I was thinking what is this? It wasn't | :27:51. | :28:01. | |
:28:01. | :28:06. | ||
good. How safe did you feel in this house? If you would like to stop | :28:06. | :28:15. | |
for a while? I wasn't safe. I was nowhere near safe. I used to lock | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
myself in, because I used to be there by myself most of the time. | :28:22. | :28:32. | |
:28:32. | :28:34. | ||
Did the woman hurt you? She would hit me. | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
Unlike some children, Gabrielle did eventually go to school. But no-one | :28:38. | :28:48. | |
:28:48. | :28:49. | ||
tried to find out how she was living, or who with. Lisa Nandy is | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
a Labour member of the Education Select Committee, she believes a | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
combination of ideology and budget cuts, means even the limited | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
progress made since the death of Victoria Climbie is being reversed. | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
We know since 2005, with a lot of families struggling, that the | :29:05. | :29:12. | |
number of children we know about in the private fostering area is | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
growing. We know that childrens' services have taken huge cuts to | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
their budget. The Government has pursued a course of watering down | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
the duty to co-operate between agencies, which did so much to | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
improve the situation post-Victoria Climbie. It is pretty apparent we | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
are moving in the wrong direction. We should be putting more focus | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
into resources and changing the culture to keep children safe. | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
Instead we are doing less. In court, in her defence, Magalie | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
Bamu spoke about the damaging impact of her time being privately | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
fostered. We also know that Eric Bikubi, who now faces life in | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
prison for killing a child, was both privately fostered, and | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
allowed to foster two teenage girls. The case of Bamu and Bikubi, though | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
unique in its brutality, also shines a light on a system which | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
still allows children to vanish into a world free from official | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
oversight. Where thousands remain hidden in plain view. | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
Joining us now from Birmingham is Hilton Dawson, chief executive of | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
the British Association of Social workers. Talk us through your | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
concerns about the private fostering? I think it is well | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
revealed by your film. We believe there are thousands of children, we | :30:29. | :30:37. | |
have no idea how many there are. You quote something like 10,000, it | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
could easily be 20,000 children in this country. Who have no | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
protection, they are not living with their parents, who may be | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
living in good circumstances, but some of whom may be living in | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
disastrous ones. It is true that there may be some, teenagers, | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
getting into trouble, go and live with a family friend for a while, | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
that is probably a good thing for them. How do you make sure you | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
don't stop that, while you stop some of this? I have no idea why | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
successive Governments haven't brought in a simple registration | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
system, where one agency would have a particular role to make sure that | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
people who were interested, legitimately, in private fostering, | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
registered, were checked out, were given training, and were given | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
support for what is a very, very important job. It is no good simply | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
to blame this Government. The previous Government and I was a | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
backbencher under it, had at least three opportunities to amend | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
legislation to bring such a system in. Is that what it would take, | :31:43. | :31:51. | |
would it take new legislation in order to do this? There would be a | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
need to change the legislation. But that could be done very easily. It | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
is the political will that's lacking. I don't even think there | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
would need to be a huge investment. What there needs to be is a focus | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
and a clear determination to protect these children. Isn't one | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
of the problems, I know you must come across this all the time in | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
your work, there is no amount of regulation, or legislation, or | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
indeed work by social workers, which can actually regulate human | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
wickedness? That's absolutely the case. You can help by putting | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
effective systems in place, you can ensure that, as I say, that people | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
who do properly want to do private fostering, and provide, and want to | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
provide decent circumstances for children, whose parents | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
legitimately need to have them looked after, in which they can get | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
support, in a way where you can target those out to exploit and | :32:51. | :33:00. | |
abuse and vilely mistreat children. The United Nations Security Council, | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
in an unusual display of single mindedness on Syria, tonight | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
demanded that the UN's humanitarian chief, Valerie Amos be allowed into | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
the country immediately Russia and chine knee even agreed. It comes as | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
the rebel Free Syrian Army said it was withdrawing from the Baba Amr | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
district of Homs, in the hope of protecting civilians from | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
continuing bloodshed. Pictures on the Internet appear to show further | :33:29. | :33:36. | |
fighting. And what looks like the civilians collecting snow to use as | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
drinking water. President Assad's Government has said they will be | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
allowed in tomorrow to provide aid. I'm joined by a Syrian opposition | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
activist, who has been trying to find out what is going on in Homs | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
and elsewhere. What kind of picture is emerging in Homs, do you think? | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
It has calmed down, the last four or five hours. Before that the | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
level of violence inflicted on that particular district of Homs has | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
been horrendous. We have been losing people on a daily basis, | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
especially people who have taken it upon themselves to get the | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
information out, and provide us with information on the numbers of | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
the casualties that this particular part of the city is suffering. This | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
isn't available any more, they say they can't even count the bodies. | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
There are bodies trapped inside flats. Especially in the western | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
side of the district, where the Syrian regular army personnel have | :34:32. | :34:38. | |
actually reached, and now they are raiding those areas, house-to-house, | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
and conducting house-to-house arrests. Some families, we have | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
confirmed information of some familiar lose that have been killed | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
from a short distance, by the security officers of the Syrian | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
regular army. What do you mean by a short distance, as close as we are? | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
Yeah, yeah. I appreciate how difficult it is to find out | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
anything reliably from there. Presumably with the Red Crescent | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
and the Red Cross going in tomorrow, that is good news, isn't it? It is | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
good news. This is what we have been calling for. We want observers, | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
international NGOs to access those areas, because the regime, believe | :35:19. | :35:25. | |
it or not, take into consideration the presence of foreign media and | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
journalists and international observers. They don't want any | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
evidence to emerge about what they are doing. Part of the problem that | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
we have faced is actually the regime attempt to cut off the city | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
of Homs entirely. They haven't managed, only because of the | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
closeness of Homs to Lebanon, and because of some satellite phones | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
that were available to some of the activists. But the regime is trying | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
to keep everyone out, and this is getting those international NGOs | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
inside those areas, is actually what we want, and what we have been | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
calling for. To get the regime to stop this military assault on the | :36:04. | :36:11. | |
area. What do you make of the free Syrian armyo saying they are having | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
a tactical withdrawal. They have small arms and they can't take | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
head-on tanks and heavy artillery, it is more than a tactical retreat, | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
it is just a retreat? I'm afraid the whole picture about the Free | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
Syrian Army has been exaggerated, partly because some elements of the | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
opposition itself in exile, and by some of the officers, the defected | :36:32. | :36:42. | |
:36:42. | :36:43. | ||
officers in exile. Who are actually building up this illusion about the | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
capability of the free Syrian army. They are inexperience conscripts | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
who defected from the army fearing foretheir lives, and actually, | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
armed lightly with Kalashnikovs, they are no match for the Syrian | :36:57. | :37:05. | |
regular army. The problem is, the regime now is using that kind of | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
talk about what they are capable of to raise the level of aggression, | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
and the military operation, as an excuse that there are actually more | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
than just a group of lightly armed people. There is actually an army | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
there, a Free Syrian Army. This Free Syrian Army thing does not | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
exist. We have groups of people, defected conscripts who have | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
gathered together and stuck together, because this is their | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
only chance of survival, until they make it to the closest borders to | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
them, in this case it would be Turkey. Thank you for your insights. | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
Now, European leaders met, yet again, in Brussels today, this time | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
not with the immediate Greek bailout on the agenda, but how to | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
stop a future eurocrisis from wrecking the world economy. The | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
International Monetary Fund wants an extra �500 billion dollars for | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
the firewall. Christine Lagarde says European countries must pay up | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
first. We have had special access to Christine Lagarde over the past | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
month, as she tries to stitch together a plan which "might" | :38:10. | :38:19. | |
:38:20. | :38:20. | ||
prevent the next financial disaster. As Europe lurchs from crisis to | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
crisis, Christine Lagarde is on a mission to warn the world not to | :38:23. | :38:31. | |
ignore the lessons of history. could easily slide into what we | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
call a 1930s moment. A moment ultimately leading to downward | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
spiral, that could very much engulf the entire world. To her friends | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
she's the "Trillion Dollar Woman", pushing Europe to help itself, | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
before seeking help from others. has taken one of their own to tell | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
the truth. To critics she's a former French Finance Minister, who | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
is still too soft on her native continent. To put the fox in charge | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
of the hen house is a high-risk strategy. What friend and critics | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
agree on is that Christine Lagarde is a central figure in the biggest | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
financial crisis of our lifetimes. What were you looking for in some | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
where to live? A place where I could see the sky and be able to | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
open windows in the morning. Almost 40 years after interning on Capitol | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
Hill, Christine Lagarde is back in Washington, as the first female | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
head of the International Monetary Fund. We are not walking very fast. | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
Normally I walk a lot faster. I work so hard and such long hours, I | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
don't have much time to exercise. We will pick up the pace for you? | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
Good, good, good. You can wake up every day to a new crisis? Yes. | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
Every morning I wake up and I wonder where is it going to crack. | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
You arrive at work and think how will you fix it? Thank you, I will | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
see you later. The biggest cracks right now are in Europe. In our | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
first interview, Lagarde made it clear, her real fear is that this | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
crisis could easily spread right around the globe. All countries, | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
all economies of the world are likely to be affected by what is | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
happening in one key region of the world. Much more so than at the | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
time of the Latin American crisis or the Asian crisis. That is why | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
Lagarde believes that, like it or not, everyone has an interest in | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
paying for the financial medicine. It is a tough sell when there is so | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
much scepticism over whether the latest bailout has really cured the | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
cause of the illness, Greece. Isn't this really just a sticking | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
plaster for what is effectively a gaping wound? It is a huge big Band | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
Aid in my view. The problem that -- band aid in my view. The problem is, | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
will it be implemented, given the magnitude of efforts that need to | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
be undertaken. Or are you throwing good money after bad money? That is | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
the whole question, it is a question of trust. Do the European | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
partners trust their partner, Greece, to actually deliver on this | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
ambitious programme. But if Greece continues not to deliver, then why | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
is the IMF fighting so hard and paying so much to keep the eurozone | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
intact. The IMF's former chief economist | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
says the fund's fund strategy simply ignores the truth about | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
Greece's finances. The European political leadership and the | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
European bankers have agreed among themselves to pretend this is not a | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
default situation. Madame Lagarde has, on some aspects, hifrpbted at | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
the truth -- hinted at the truth, and perhaps we should commend her | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
for that, relative to the alternatives. But has the IMF come | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
clean, or emphasised, or spoken sufficiently frankly about the true | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
nature of the European problems, wait in which those can still | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
spread within the eurozone, and what you must now do with regard to | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
Italian sovereign debt, I don't think it has. Lagarde bristles at | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
the suggestion that she has given Europe special treatment. I feel | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
very much managing director of the IMF, which includes 188 members, | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
I'm no longer French and European. Lagarde is on her way to Mexico | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
City for the G20 Summit, and she has invited to us join her. How | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
many flights have you taken this year? Oof, too many, but many, many, | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
many, many. If I couldn't sleep on a plane, I couldn't do the job I'm | :42:37. | :42:44. | |
doing. Her job on this trip is to raise an extra $500 million for the | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
IMF. That would double the size of the global firewall, designed to | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
insulate the world's global economy against any worsening of the | :42:52. | :43:02. | |
European crisis. It is on this stage of global finance that | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
Lagarde performs best. She is the rock star for whom the Japanese | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
Finance Minister waits, a little nervously. The woman in a largely | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
male world, who is trying to convince America, Europe, and the | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
increasingly confident emerging economies, to each surrender their | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
domestic political interests to the greater global good. I would love | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
some tea, I haven't had anything today. It is pretty horrible, I | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
made it myself. We caught up with Lagarde and her staff as they | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
planned the G20 sessions. The night before is a dinner with ministers | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
only, ministers and governors of Central Banks only. Today, during | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
the course of the meeting, there will be more people in the room. | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
Generally the dinner is the time when people can make some pointed | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
comments that they would not necessarily make very publicly. | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
country that has no problem saying what it thinks in public is | :44:00. | :44:08. | |
Europe's dominant player. Unflapable, even under the | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
considerable discomfort of five pints of beer down her back, Angela | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
Merkel is resisting pressure to add more funds to Europe's firewall. | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
You have a good relationship with Angela Merkel, isn't it frustrating | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
for you that she won't move faster? It is a matter of patience and | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
resilience, I won't give up. Equally, she does not want to be | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
rushed into a process, unless she has covered all the angles and all | :44:33. | :44:39. | |
the issues. I think it is one of her many, many talents. It is the | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
same way Lagarde herself operates. She's always very good with the | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
British media, does endless Newsnight interviews, we have done | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
it a couple of times as a double act. She has used it to build a | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
powerful alliance of non-eurozone politicians, that includes the man | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
who first nominated her for this job. Christine Lagarde is here in | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
Mexico, effectively with a begging bowl, asking the other countries of | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
the world to step up money for the IMF firewall, will you contribute | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
to that? Britain would only think about contributing if the eurozone | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
puts more money into its own firewall. That is a position that | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
is also shared by the Japanese, the Canadians, the Australians and many | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
other countries in the world. Until we see the colour of the eurozone | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
money, we're not prepared to put our own money in. And right there | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
is Lagarde's biggest hurdle, democratically elected politicians | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
will always put their own interests first. It is the reason tackling | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
global debt has been so hard. It is why, amid signs of progress, | :45:42. | :45:49. | |
Lagarde leaves us with this warning, this crisis isn't over yet. | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
A quick look atom morning's front pages, the Independent has Kristy | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
Bamu on the front page and a story about Vince Cable begging US bosses | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
not to shut the UK car plant. The Vauxhall factory at Ellesmere | :46:04. | :46:14. | |
:46:14. | :46:36. | ||
That's all from Newsnight tonight, back with more tomorrow. We wanted | :46:36. | :46:46. | |
:46:46. | :46:48. | ||
to leave you with news that 75- year-old Eng lebert Humperdink has | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
been selected by England to represent them in the Eurovision | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
Song Contest, up against Jedward, they have been favourite to win up | :46:56. | :47:06. |