08/03/2012 Newsnight

A failed rescue attempt by British special forces in Nigeria ends in

tragedy, as a British and Italian hostage are killed. It is with

great regret I have to say that both Chris and Franco have lost

their lives. We are still awaiting confirmation of the details, but

the early indications are clear that both men were murdered by

their captors, before they could be rescued.

Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban is here.

This was a set piece British operation, conducted after an

intelligence gathering operation that lasted months. But tragically,

it failed to save the hostages. We speak to an Italian senator who

said they should have been consulted about the rescue

operation. Spring is in the air, and just as

we thought house buying was about to bloom, wham, balm, mortgage

rates start to rise, what now for our property-obsessed economy.

These photographs are the work of Time Magazine, William Daniels, who

came under attack with the late Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik in

Baba Amr. We talk to him about that attack, and his harrowing escape

with his wounded colleague, Edith Bouvier. Reasons to be cheerful, it

may be International Women's Day, but are women suffering more in the

downturn. These women are divided over a 21st century women's lot.

-- woman's lot. Good evening. A British and an

Italian hostage being held in Nigeria are dead tonight. After a

failed rescue attempt involving British Special Forces. Their

captors, believed to be from the Al-Qaeda-inspired militant Islamist

sect, Boko Haram, were working on a construction project and have been

hostages since last May. The operation to rescue them has been

on going for six months. The two men were taken on the 12th

of May last year, appearing in a video made by their kidnappers.

Chris McManus and Franco Lamolinara, both worked for an Italian

construction company, on projects in the state of Kebbi. A joint

Nigerian and British security operation cornered the kidnappers

in Sokoto, not far from where they were taken, and tonight David

Cameron announced the outcome of a failed attempt to save them.

Preparations were made to mount an operation to attempt to rescue

Chris and Franco. Together with the Nigerian Government, today, I

authorised it to go ahead with UK support. It is with great regret I

have to say that both Chris and Franco have lost their lives. We

are still awaiting confirmation of the details, but the early

indications are clear that both men were murdered by their captors

before they could be rescued. The skeej in Sokoto at the house

where the two -- scene in Sokoto at the house where the two hostages

were killed is described by an eyewitness. The neighbour told me

they numbered about 40-50 and the occupants of the house were about

seven, including these two hostages. The kidnappers were from the

militant group, Boko Haram, it has recently been responsible for

bloody bomb attacks in northern Nigeria. It is a Jihadist Islamic

organisation, that emerged two years ago. Although loosely

modelled on Arab militant groups, it has its own agenda in Nigeria.

The point is they are making a political statement that it is very

dangerous for westerners to work in northern Nigeria, a move they hope

that will destablise the Government of Goodluck Jonathan, the President,

and drive western companies out of Nigeria.

With today's operation, Boko Haram moves up the international militant

league table. Western firms, that for years have operated with care

in Nigeria, because of the risks, will now have to look again at

whether it is safe enough to carry on there, as this new insurgency

gathers force. Mark Urban is with me now, a pretty

dreadful end to the operation. In military terms it will not be seen

in any way to be well planned, do you think? I think it could be

argued that it was well planned. In a sense that finding the right

intelligence to zero in on a kidnap gang is extremely hard, that was a

Nigerian-led process, they raided a Hughes recently where they obtained

intelligence of what was called a rebel stronghold, in the town where

the incident took place today. They closed in, the British role was to

provide the assault force, the SBS, the Special Boat Service, a group

up to 24 troops engaged in assaulting it. It turned out to be

a tough target, heavily defended. It is thought the hostages were

probably killed while it was happening. This is the difficult

thing with these operations. Some Downing Street tonight as to

whether any of the hostage-takers emerged. The Nigerian President

said they did, but people are telling me nobody came out alive.

That would make the assumption that the SBS had to work very hard

because they were very well armed? It was a heavy firefight, that is

what people are saying. significant diplomatic fall-out

from this? A significant fall-out, the Italian Government are unhappy

about what happened. When this was put together, as an intelligence

operation between the Nigerians and British several months ago, as we

have been saying. I understand there was a general Italian

approval given to pursue this type of init tell begins and follow it

to its logical conclusions. It is clear -- intelligence and follow it

through to its logical conclusions. But it is clear when David Cameron

spoke today, he did not consult the Italian authorities when he gave

the go ahead. I have the chair of the all-party parliamentary group

on Nigeria, and I'm joined by a member of Silvio Berlusconi's

People of Freedom Party. First of all, Mark Urban was saying that the

Italians were not informed of the imminent attack, is that true?

apparently so. It is something that is against what is usually done in

this case, as it is quite uncommon that a country that is involved is

not informed before. Apparently it was very difficult in the situation.

It might have been the best decision, but it is still to be

explained why the Italian authorities haven't been informed,

although they are quite present on the territory of Nigeria. They were

present on the territory, but presumably they signed up to the

initial intelligence gathering operation, with the logical

conclusion that it would be acted upon. Was that not sufficient for

Italy's needs? Well, it is something that we are not

completely informed on so far. Usually in these cases, the other

countries are informed when the operation is started. It was not

started by surprise, I mean, it was something planned. The situation

that we have heard about the situation, tells us that maybe it

was impossible to do better than that. But certainly the outcome was

not good, and we are not satisfied. I was going to say, it is a

dreadful loss to have the death of the hostage, but, I assume, for the

family as well, although, obvious low, the British family did not

know there was about -- obviously, the British family did not know

there was about to be an attack, neither did the Italian family as

well? Every human loss deserves all the respect, we are not saying that

our fellow countryman is more important than others. But the

British Government was informed and our Government was not informed.

That is all. I think that we are two countries that are friends,

that fight alongside together say in Afghanistan, for instance, and

I'm sure that everything will be set. Still, we would like to have

what is the common way of doing in this case, as we would have liked

to see the same also this time. this the mood generally, a cross-

party mood, is this the mood emerging among all politicians in

Italy? Yes. The current Government itself has asked for an explanation.

The Government we have today is supported by more than 80% of the

MPs. It expresses the positions, the position of the whole political

Panorama of Italy. Finally, what would you like to hear from David

Cameron? I think that he used the right words. We are absolutely sure

that he was very sorry about what happened. As I said, we just want

explanations to know why we have not been informed. With all the

understanding we are ready to give, but to understand one has to be

informed. Thank you very much for joining us.

It was always going to be a very difficult operation, what do you

make of what happened? I wasn't on the ground, I don't know what

information the Prime Minister had. It seems there must have been some

long-term negotiation going on. It is a very fraught country, Nigeria.

We don't know exactly who is involved, it is too early to

analyse that, but there seems to be links, possibly with Boko Haram.

Boko Haram being an Islamist sect, following Al-Qaeda? It is early

days. I would say where it happened is a long way from where they have

been active before. Because of that distance we have to be careful of

the analysis. I don't know if there are survivors. In terms of the

Italian situation, I don't know how fast-moving it was at the moment.

It seems odd that an ally like Italy was not kept informed. It is

important we find out what happened, and the Prime Minister explains to

the Italian Government what happened. So you would like him to

apologise to the Italian Government? It is unusual that the

Italian Government wasn't informed. At the moment with the military

action you would that wouldn't happen, but diplomats in London

could have been talking to Rome. the hours running up? Yes. There

must be some point when knew the decision was going to travel, we

are talking about long distances, we are not talking about split

second decisions, it is difficult to talk about the distance.

know the territory well, this would not be said to be, as it were, a

coup for the hostage takers, but it was probably probblebatic for the

Government, two men are -- problematic for the Government, two

men are dad. Boko Haram is a threatening organisation for lots

of people working in Nigeria? was a small group, it was

geographically complicated until its leader was killed, now it is

spread. It is difficult to know who is Boko Haram and who is taking the

mantle. This is one of the challenging things about the issue

of security in Nigeria, it is not easy to identify the leaders. It is

a very serious issue for the country, a strategic importance in

west Africa and the UK. The President has a really big task to

tackle the security issue in his country.

Now, for some borrowers it has just go got a whole lot more expensive

to get a mortgage. As some lenders hike up their standard variable

mortgage rates. The Chancellor wanted low-cost mortgages to remain

that, as a cornerstone of recovery. But the banks say borrowing on the

wholesale market has risen and they are reluctant to lend to each other.

With the Bank of England saying interest rates will be held at 0.5%

even longer. Are things getting completely out of kilter?

It is exactly three years now since the Bank of England slashed its

official rate to its lowest in three centuries, and it stayed

there. Which has borrowers like Linda wondering, why, when the

Central Bank is holding its rates at record lows, is her bank jacking

them up. With a mortgage of �25 2,000, it is not the Halifax giving

her extra, more the other way round. I got out Michael lator, I haven't

had anything officially from the Building Society yet, but on the

figures they were giving on television, our mortgage will go up

by �100 a month. How will that affect you? It is a lot of money,

our train fares have gone up �50, that is an extra �150 a month, it

is a lot of money to have to find. The only way to do it is by cutting

down on other things. Linda supplements her meagre income at a

city farm in south London, by working as an estate agent at the

weekends, even then she can't rein in her costs. I understand if the

Bank of England puts up the risks, that is a risk -- puts up its rates,

that is a risk we took. But for the mortgage lenders to put up rates is

despicable. It used to be in the dim distant days before the credit

crunch, that where the Bank of England led, the mortgage lenders

would follow, rates would only go up and down when the Bank of

England changed its rates. Four years ago that mechanism got

crunched. Ever since then it hasn't been the Bank of England policy s

but mortgage lenders' finances that have dictated what happens to

interest rates. What is worrying is interest rates can be at record

lows for years, and tens of billions have been printed, and

still the Bank of England can't hold rates down. While the bank

tries and fails to rein in mortgage costs, which lenders are refusing

to follow its lead? Halifax is putting up its standard variable

rate, from 3.5 to 3 .99%. Bank of Ireland's rate will raise to 4.49%

by September. At RBS some offset and one mortgage account rate will

climb from 3.75% to 4%. Those rises will affect 1.2 million households,

just over a tenth of all mortgage borrowers, expect more to follow.

Mortgage lenders say it is costing them more to get hold of the funds

to lend, so they have to pass that cost on, in higher rates. Mortgage

lenders have to attract savings in from the public, they have to offer

rates that attract the money. Equally, in some cases they have to

go to the wholesale markets to raise money. They have been

affected by the general economic situation in the eurozone. So it

isn't as stable a position as you might say, as you might think, when

you look at the base rate. At the moment I don't see any rise in

savings rates, in fact they seem to be as low as they ever were three

years ago, why is that a justification for raising mortgage

rates?. It is quite a complicated position. I think some rates are

rising. Bear in mind as well, a lot defends on the particular need of

the particular lender. -- depends on a particular lender, their

particular view of their mortgage book, and what sort of business

they want to attract. Back at Linda's farm that is not enough to

satisfy the lend ers' critics. Last year -- lenders' critics. Raising

rates when the banks bonuses were out might not have gone down well,

and the cost of funds has come down since then. First of all, a lot of

us put money with the banks and get nothing at all. Then they raise

money broadly, they have to put capital when they lend. That cost

to them, if you like, of supplying mortgages, it did go up last year

and squeeze, in recent week it is has relief. I'm very surprised they

put the rate up now, the margin has widened. Their money is cheaper

than a few weeks ago? It is cheaper for the banks to lend to us. This

is the wrong time, in my opinion, for them to raise mortgage rates.

Economists hope as spring gets under way, so will the economic

recovery. Many are in negative equity, and 1.9 million with equity

of 10%. For mortgage prisoners it is difficult to switch mortgages,

when their rates go up there is little they can do. With me to

discuss the changes in the mortgage market, is the director of Europe

Economicss, and Wendy Evans-Scott, President of the National

Association of Estate Agents. That whole very point, that the banks

are offering nothing to savers, because they can't, the Bank of

England interest rates are there, they could add little and little

bit on for different policies. But that is a quick way of getting

money in, people can't move suddenly, they will be getting

money in quickly from the additional mortgage costs?

shouldn't be too fussed about the timing. It hasn't been politically

expedient or economically expedient for banks to have raised rates over

the last nine months. They now think they have the opportunity to

do so. The opportunity? It is an opportunity. RBS, and Halifax, are

owned by the public? They face some genuine funding difficulties

associated with liquidity scheme from the Bank of England which is

stopped. There are various regulatory requirements, associated

with the way mortgages are looked at, tightening over time. We are

reaching a point at which, looking out in the future, either we are

going to, the economy will tick along or get worse, in which case

we will get lots of foreclosures because of that, lots of defaults,

or the economy will start to get better, in which case interest

rates will go up, in which case a lot of people currently in distress

will default. The economy gets better or worse, but people will be

stung, it is the market? Well, the aspiration is still there to own a

home. An Englishman's home is his castle. The market has seen some

signs of recovery recently, this is a great shame, because obvious low

the market was doing very well. -- obviously the market was doing very

well. We are not happy about the interest rate rises. It effects

roughly 1.2 million at the moment, it might go up to five and a bit

million if everybody follows suit. Of that 5.5 million, there is bound

to be a proportion that won't be able to pay the mortgages and there

will be defaults, and people will have less disposable income to fuel

the recovery? It is the wider picture, how it is affecting the

rest of the economy. What will happen to the housing market if

people default on their mortgages? We will have more repossessions,

repossessions have been very low, recently, we are hoping a lot of

people will take advantage of some new fixes on their mortgages,

perhaps remortgage now, if they can. Would you be concerned about

repossessions, increasing repossessions? We are concerned

about repossessions. Especially when you have negative equity at

the moment for people. So it is bad for people, isn't it?

It is obviously difficult for individuals, but I think from the

banks' point of view, they have to price realistically, one of the

problems in the past is mortgage rates were too low, things which

place mortgages moraleistically with respect in the genuine risk

around mortgages should be welcomed. Difficult for individuals but

better for the economy as a whole. Locking a little bit further ahead,

if we get some recovery in the economy, it is often the case that

the early phase of recovery is associated with many corporate

insol Len sis, businesses finally give up the ghost in the recovery

phase. Many households clinging on by their fingernails, once interest

rates start to rise in the recovery rate, a symptom of recovery will be

some bleeding off of households, that, frankly, should have been

foreclosed on some time ago, and only kept on by policies. People

will be out of their houses, this is exactly what the Chancellor

didn't want? It is politically different. Those houses, in some

cases they might benefit by these matters being resolved. If in the

end they are going to have to default, it is better it happens

sooner rather than later. You are actually saying this could be a

good thing because it weeds people out with crippling mortgages they

can't afford any way? The natural state here should be much more

foreclosures. Do you agree with that? It is not a good thing at all.

As I go back to what I was saying before, it has a greater impact on

the economy. So many businesses are relying on property sales. It will

affect the high street, in the US a recent survey said that the housing

market is vital to the economy. Absolutely vital, and actually

equated it to a number of jobs. We shall see what happens. As far

as you are concerned, it is going to be 5.5 million affected by this

in the end, this will find their way to things that are not variable

mortgages, of that proportion, how many will be out on their ears?

the 1990s, there were 300,000 foreclosures, housing price crash,

that is larger than that, you should expect a fairly similar

number. Policy has kept people going for a very long time. It is a

legitimate for policy to think if things are temporary, stuff might

get better, you can use policy to get people through that. If it will

carry on for years and years, it is not the job of the Bank of England

to punish prudent people by keeping savings rates very low, and coping

inflation high, so as to keep some people who shouldn't have borrowed

the run in houses they can't afford. -- borrowed in houses they can't

afford. We can't verify the facts in Homs.

Today Baroness Amos said she had been deaf Vass tailted by what she

witness -- devastated in what she witnessed in Homs. Kofi Annan has

warned that further militarisation of the conflict would worsen a

desperate situation. The pictures behind me were taken by the Time

Magazine photographer, who came under attack, the same attack that

killed Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik. We will hear from him in a moment.

First this. The streets of Homs, once the

centre of Syria's uprising, are eerily quiet now. Days after the

Government forces crushed the rebellion there. We don't know for

sure what has happened. Newsnight has heard reports from several

sources in the city of whole Paul Conroy, the British

photographer, injured in Homs, whom Newsnight spoke to last week, has

heard similar reports from other sources tonight about killings in

another district, Baba Amr. I got a message out from activists

who I worked with on the ground, they have sent me through very

detailed reports full of names, locations and places of eight

families that were massacred, also that the women, the young girls

were taken off to a separate place. Very detailed, very accurate, very

credible reports. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity.

The reports can't be verified, monitoring organisations say they

are also aware of the alleged murders, they think they may be

sectarian in nature. Certainly this senior foreign

visitor, the UN humanitarian chief, Baroness Amos, wasn't able to check.

She was talking to Syrian officials in Damascus today, after a 24-

minute tour yesterday of Baba Amr, the scene of the worst violence in

Homs. I have been struck by the difference between what I have seen

here in Damascus, and what I saw yesterday in Baba Amr. The

devastation there is significant, that part of Homs is completely

destroyed, and I'm concerned to know what has happened to the

people who lived in that part of the city.

She is still trying to negotiate access for international aid

workers. While the violence continues.

After quelling the uprising in most parts of Homs, the regime is now

reported to be turning its attention further north. Its troops

massing on the border of Idlib province. In the Jabal Al-Zawiya

area, a stronghold of the rebel Free Syrian Army, there are said to

have been clashes already with Government forces. Meanwhile back

in the capital, Damascus, today, the army opened fire to disperse

mourners at a funeral. Now, for the first time, a member of Syria's

Government has defected, on YouTube. TRANSLATION: I do not want to end

my career serving the crimes of this regime, I choose to join the

voice of justice, knowing they will burn my house, persecute my family,

and fabricate lies against me. I advise my colleagues and those who

have remained silent for a year, about the crimes of this regime, to

abandon this sinking ship. He's the most senior civilian official to

abandon the regime, since the uprising began a year ago. The news

has delighted opposition leaders. It shows, perhaps, the beginning of

defections by important people, in the regime, who have started to

realise that this regime is not going to stay. One defection by a

junior minister, is also a reminder of how united Assad's Government

has remained until now. Of his army, once 200 strong, maybe a quarter

have deserted. Only -- 200,000 strong, maybe a quarter have

deserted, not all of those have joined the opposition. His regime

may not be done for yet. It is similar after how the Algerian

Government won the civil war, after eight years. It is framing itself

like those regimes, and saying provided the west doesn't intervene

as it did against Gaddafi, perhaps the regime can survive with a

smaller social base, but with a powerful security force, keeping it

in power. In Hama, in 1982, the President's

father, crushed an uprising and saved his regime at the cost of

many thousands of lives. His son may still think he can repeat that

feat. One person who has seen the

bombardment of Homs up close is the Time Magazine photographer, William

Daniels. He was with reporters Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik when

they were killed last month in Baba Amr. He eventually escaped the city

with another injured journalist, Edith Bouvier, at one point making

use of a network of water pipes under the city. I spoke to him

about his experiences from our bureau in Paris.

Images like these are rare, not the grainy, unverified pictures we have

grown used to from Syria, but professional photographs from

inside a conflict that has grown increasingly bloody, and

increasingly invisible to the outside world. These are the work

of William Daniels, one of few foreign journalists to have worked

inside Syria in recent month. A French photo magazine working for

Time Magazine, he was in the same building as Marie Colvin and Remi

Ochlik, when they were bombed and died two weeks ago. He took these

pictures of Baba Amr and Homs on that ill-fated trip. Daniels was

lucky, after a harrowing journaly, with wounded journalist, Edith

Bouvier, he made it back to France for a presidential welcome. But the

story he left behind is far from over.

Can you tell us what happened at 8.00am on February 22nd? All of us,

the six journalists, we were in this apartment, it is called the

Media Centre, it was an apartment with a internet connection. At

8.25am the first rocket hit the apartment out on the road. Two more

rockets close to the apartment, then the fourth one, after the

third one one Syrian guy asked us to go out, so we tried to escape

very quickly. And Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik were already outside.

They were ready to go. Then this same guy was taking care of us, he

heard a launch of a new rocket. So he said, no, go back inside, to

protect yourselves. Then the rocket hit the road, just at the entrance

of the building, and Remi and Marie were very close to the impact, so

they died directly. The four other journalists were

inside the room with some Syrian people. Some had been wounded, like

Edith and Paul, Javier and myself were just behind a wall and were

safe. What happened with the Syrian activists and residents, residents

were kind and risking their own lives to try to help you? Of course

they were, they carried us to the hospital, they spent some time with

us. Several days, and we were treated, Edith and Paul while we

were shelled. Our apartment was targeted, for sure. But the people

who took lots of danger to save us are the ones who helped us escape

from Baba Amr and to go back to Lebanon for the last five days.

had gone in by the tunnel, and you and he had dit tried to get out by

the -- Edith tried to get out by the tunnel. What happened in the

tunnel, you were pulling her stretcher, is that right? In the

tunnel we went all together to try to escape. Before the end the

Syrian forces, the Syrian army began to fire at the exit of the

tunnel. I have been told they killed some people, the two

journalists, Paul and Javier could escape, Edith and I had to stay in

the tunnel and go back to Baba Amr, we came back to the hospital, Edith

had to have a small operation on her knee. We went to bed, slept

just two or three hours, and then in the morning a man who we have

been seeing for several days, he told us, there is a solution now,

maybe the guy is here, it is dangerous, do you want to try. We

looked at each other and said OK, we will try it. We tried this road,

and it was something very, very scary. As we said before, it was

very close to Assad's army. Edith r dit was in great danger, wasn't --

Edith was in great danger, there was a danger she could get a blood

clot? If he was transported like this she could have had a blood

clot and died. It was a lot of responsibility for me. It was

something very, very, that makes me very anxious. But, well, it was

fine. We are fine now. And we are safe. So I think now what is

important is to talk about the Syrian people. We are safe, but the

Syrian people are not safe. From your observations, what is daily

life like in Baba Amr? It is something unbelievable. It is

unbelievable. The city is all destroyed. On the streets you have

pieces of concrete everywhere, you have big holes in each buildings,

big rocket or mortar holes everywhere. There is no water or a

little bit of water. There is not much food. You feel like there is

nobody living in this city when you go out. Because you see nobody in

the street. When you try to find you can, when you try to look for

people, you can find that many families were still living in Baba

Amr, just hiding in some apartment, hiding in some basement. They just

couldn't escape. It was too dangerous to escape. Every day you

have the shelling, sometimes it was like several hundred, maybe three

hundred, I don't know, it is a personal estimation. Maybe

sometimes it was something like 300 bombs a day. These bombs kill women,

children, men, fighters of course. Thank you very much.

Women across the globe marked International Women's Day today,

but how much is there to celebrate. Everywhere you look, from

parliament to the boardrooms, women are still underrepresented. This

morning I was at the meeting where the Deputy Prime Minister couldn't

remember how many women were in the cabinet. Nearly two years after the

coalition came to power, promising to be the most family-friendly

Government ever, what has changed. With are my guests.

Labour MP Stella Creasy, Conservative MP Claire Perry, and

Ruth Porter from the Institute of Economic Affairs. We are going to

begin with Deborah and Ruth, I want to see your charts to support your

ideas about whether women are doing better or not starting with you

Deborah? I have pulled out a few statistics to get the discussion

going. What we find is that women are significantly more likely than

men to be unhappy with the Government's performance in general.

Particularly with the Government's performance on the economy. Let's

see? We have a couple of slides. Do you approve or disapprove of the

Reasons for that? I think women have very high hopes for this

coalition Government. The idea of the coalition, two parties working

together for the good of the country really appealed to women.

You think women are generally more consensual? They are, they don't

like back-biting politics, or dog- eat-dog politics, they wanted two

parties working for the common good and they didn't see it. What is the

next chart? It is focusing more That's a net figure. Now, what I

think that tells us is, it is a number of things. I think women

actually are harder hit by the changes at the moment. They are

more likely to have lost their job, they are more likely to be working

in the public sector, more likely to be employed in the public sector.

A million women now unemployed is the highest for 20 years. The women

don't look at the economy from their perspective, they are

thinking about their kids and their mum, they are seeing the economy in

a round. Before your charts Ruth, just some response to that, the

YouGov date it is woman are going bad, because they are disappointed

by the coalition Government, and they are hit harder in the

unemployment stakes? We have to be careful that we don't let

perception influence how we view reality, in a sense, how we feel

about things, often isn't a true reflection of how things are. We

see that all over at the moment, with things like the people's

attitude, people think that the Government is closing down the debt

that actually they are reducing, they won't be adding to the debt

over the course of the parliament. They are adding masses to the debt

over the course of this parliament. How we feel about what is happening

in the economy isn't always a reflection of what is happening. I

think when we look at the data on women and how they are being

affected by the coalition's policy, I think we see actually a different

picture toe that. Let's see the charts you have -- Picture to that.

Let's see at the charts you have brought? It looks at the redundancy

rates. It is across the public and private

It is across the public and private sector. Who is this from? The ONS.

When you look at it, it is men feeling the hit overall, in erpls

it of redundancy ..-- in terms of redundancy ..4% per 1,000, and 5%

per ,000 for women. That is public and private sector. What is

interesting when you look at the public sector, you can see. So

public sector, the work force, it is made up disproportionately of

women, 65%. We will see more cuts in the public sector. Women will be

hit harder there. We need to be careful we don't engage with this

debate in simplistic terms. Women will be hit with more public sector

quts cuts, are you expecting them to do better when the private

sector picks up the slack? Absolutely, for all women, getting

the economy back on track, getting rid of the deficit and the public

sector down to managable levels is important. There might be short-

term pain for certain women in certain contexts for that to happen.

I think we are falling into classic politicians' traps here. That is

why women feel very turned off by politics. Number one, there are 32

politics. Number one, there are 32 million in this country. To define

us all as having one set of policy needs and agendas, we heard in this

programme about mortgages, millions of women are paying off mortgages

across the country, who have done extremely well by the low interest

rates this Government has secured. We are taking a million people out

of taxation all together. 60% of those are women. The other trap we

are falling into is we are chucking up all the charts MPs like to talk

about all the time. Let's get back to a principle here, there is

nothing good for women about leaving this deficit for our kids

and grand kids to pay off. That is why so many people like me have

come into politics. We think we have an opportunity to sort this

country out, and pay off the Labour Party's debt. What do you think of

this? I think Claire is right, not every woman is suffering in the

same way. It is the women' poorest end of the scale most affected by

this. In the next couple of weeks thousands of families will lose

Working Tax Credits, because you have changed the rules about

entitlement. Unless they have more hours at work they will lose �4,000

on incomes, they are on �17,000 a year, they are not the people you

are talking about. This is the challenge we are facing. This is

happening particularly to the poorest communities. Communities

like mine where losing tax benefits and Child Tax Credits are important

to women, they are in charge of household budgets. We had an

International Women's Day today, and Labour activists got up saying

we are removing child benefit from the seventh-richest country in the

world. This is not what it is about, it is about when there is no money.

The bendy bus drivers in my area, it is not a fair thing. Listening

is a good women's thing to. Do we talked about public sector

employment, 65% of public sector employment is women, it is actually

at the lower end. There is a reason, flexibility in the work place has

been a real problem for women in the private sector. It is easier,

right now, to be a mother working in the public sector rather than

the private sector, sharing parental leave. A lot of the jobs

doing now are jobs seen when the chips are up as expendable jobs?

disagree completely. That is why they are not in the redundancy

figures. I suspect a lot of the redundancies are managerial jobs,

in Wiltshire Council the cuts have been in management, no cuts to

frontline services. That is not the case, it is evidence it is the

people like lolly pop ladies, care workers and support officers,

people who do an important job to help the public and private sector

grow together. Without these women the country falls apart. Let's talk

about perception, you are right we mustn't muddle up perception and

reality. If you are the woman on the receiving end of the cut, your

perception is your reality. A lot of women do feel very hard done by,

and not just, you know, they are worried because their husbands are

losing their jobs too. They are worried because their kids can't

get jobs. They are also worried because they see public services

begger roded, and they are much more likely than men to think cuts

are administered unfairly. What we need to do is look at actually how

to create more jobs, in the private sector, what can we be doing in

labour market deregulation. One of the problems here is women are bore

lowing from companies like illegal -- borrowing from legal loan sharks

to cover that. It is the people at the poorest end making decisions

that could leave them in debt for generations. That is a problem here.

Let's widen it out, culturally, International Women's Day is

celebrated, but culturally do you think things are better for the

majority of women in this country? I think the clock is turned back.

Whether we see changes on domestic violence. There are 230 women every

single day in this country now being turned away from refugees. It

is -- refuges, it is a huge cost to the public purse to look after

those women. There is a 30% cut in provision. I am a Ukhtaing actually

about a society, that might be the manifest -- I'm talking actually

about the society. That might be the perception, but it is the

manifestation of it. Women don't have the courage to say where the

cuts will fall. It is still acceptable for men, in some

families, for men to hit women in this country? It is completely

unacceptable. That is why today, at Number Ten there was an

announcement, three very important announcements, the adoption of

Claire's Law, it is in recognition of a woman who was battered to

death by somebody with a history of domestic violence. We are puting

that on the statute book, we are pass ago law to make stalking

something that is now illegal. Today we have put more money into

Rape Crisis and Victim Support centres, in my constituency they

say it is the first time they have been on a sustainable footing for

three years. I wish I could convey to you how strongly MPs across the

House feel about this. The time for this clapped out ideology is over,

the time for women to work together on these incredible initiatives. Do

you support the amendments freedom? Support the amendments to the bill

to tackle stalking. Let's not talk over each other. You have 20

seconds. This is the point, violence against women is not just

about rape, but it is domestic violence, we are losing half a

million street lights in this country, people won't be able to

walk down streets because they are dark. You and I go home most nights

after dark, it is not just about us, it is women at home fearing their

partner's vie leoints. We have an amendment in the law for you to do

this. Do you think things are better? Women have felt their lot

has improved. We did a big survey recently when we asked men and

people -- women feel, men are pessimistic, worried about the

economy, jobs, worried about their kids, particularly. Health centre -

- the lost generation. That is important thing to do as a

Government. We can't transfer the borrowing to our daughters and sons

to pay off. Thank you very much, tomorrow

morning's front pages, that story about Nigeria, British hostage

killed in a failed rescue bid. Kidnap Britain killed as PM sends

in Special Forces. In the times, new laws will speed up adoption.

That story, Al-Qaeda hostages die as SBS rescue fails. That is all we

have time for on Newsnight. From A cloudy night tonight means it is

not quite as cold T does make for a rather grey start on Friday morning.

Overall a much cloudier day, wet weather across North West Scotland,

slowly spreading into south of Scotland and parts of Northern

Ireland. Drizzley conditions over the Pennines and general lie across

Cumbria. Most places dry, some spots brighter skies in eastern

England. Temperatures jumping up to 13 Celsius, even where it is cloudy

around the western most coast, temperatures still 10-11. A bit of

drizzle here and there, conditions over hills and mountains over the

west coast. Most of Wales dry and cloudy. Dry and cloudy across the

southern half, maybe 14 in Belfast, northern parts of Northern Ireland,

after a dry start, it will turn wet by the afternoon. That rain

affecting the central belt of Scotland. Central Scotland starts

wet but brighter during the day. More brightness on Saturday,

eastern parts of Scotland and England. Where we get any sunshine

over the next couple of days, temperatures could really jump up,

maybe 14, 15 in the south-east on Saturday, similar conditions on

Sunday. Overall on Saturday it will start off cloudy, one or two spots