Browse content similar to 27/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It wasn't just as the Government asserted at the time, pure | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
criminality, according to the panel investigating them, last summer's | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
unpress departmented riots, were the product of bad schools, bad | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
parenting, insufficient jobs and being poor when capitalism dangles | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
luxury in your face. It felt like Christmas had come early, just | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
being able to take all the nice things that you want. | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
The diagnosis of the causes of the riots reads like some socialist's | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
check list. And you are wasting your -- sociolologists check list, | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
and you are wasting your time asking for solutions. Is the | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
diagnosis right, and is there a cure. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
We would all like to live here, but does it exist, does the | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
Government's planning policy meet the fears of conservationists. | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
Pity the pieman, can George Osborne be persuaded not to levy VAT on | :01:01. | :01:08. | |
pies and pasties. In their propaganda, this group | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
call themselves The Immortals, and so they wear death masks, we go in | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
search of Germany's new generation of neo-Nazis. | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
TRANSLATION: We need people willing, ready, able and trained, in case it | :01:23. | :01:33. | |
:01:33. | :01:34. | ||
comes to civil war. The scene is armed, it is military. | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
The riots last summer were the behaval product of too many young | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
people with nothing to lose. That is the less than earth-shatteringly | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
conclusion of the panel set up to find out what happened. | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
All of us want jobs, a sense of engagment, something to hope for. | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
The report's authors think much of this could be settled if schools | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
built character, or be fined if too few pupils learned to read or write | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
well. We will talk about their ideas and if they make sense | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
shortly, first Peter Marshall reports. | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
Five days which shook England's cities, shocking the nation, and | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
beyond. We know all too well what happened | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
last August, but why? Those involved insist there were | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
causes. Of course there was a reason behind | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
it, why would it all kick off. It wouldn't kick off for no reason. | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
Even the Prime Minister, whose initial response was to blame | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
commoner garden thieving and looting, was soon announcing | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
policies to tackle deeper roots. believe it is only by recognising a | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
problem that you can fix what has actually gone wrong. This summer, | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
we saw, beyond doubt, that something has gone profoundly wrong. | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
To get to grips with that profound wrong, Mr Cameron set up the | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
Troubled Families Programme, promising to turn around the lives | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
of 120,000 families identified as causing crime or anti-social | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
behaviour. Unfortunately, according to the riots report, these weren't | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
the families who had rioted. The report says of the Troubled | :03:13. | :03:23. | |
:03:23. | :03:30. | ||
So this forgotten half million are the problem of the What we argue in | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
the report is the principles within the Troubled Families Programme | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
need to be expanded to focus on those forgotten families, as we | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
call them. Matt Cavanagh was an adviser for the Home Office in | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Labour's time, he says the current Government's Troubled Families | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
Programme now looks wide of the mark. It looks like a classic | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
response of a politician reaching for a policy solution in the middle | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
of a crisis, reaching for something they had bubbling in the background | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
any way, and using them to get them through the few difficult weeks in | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
August. They should keep going with it, but shouldn't pretend it is a | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
solution to the riots. The rioters had two targets, the police and | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
expensive products. They were fuelled by resentment of the first, | :04:15. | :04:25. | |
:04:25. | :04:26. | ||
and desire for the second. The It felt like Christmas had come | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
early, just being able to take all the nice things that you wanted. | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
When you get a chance to put your hands on things like that you feel | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
good. The report criticises the police, | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
particularly in London, saying, the Met can dramatically improve their | :04:42. | :04:52. | |
:04:52. | :04:52. | ||
As for solutions, the report notes most of those who riots were under | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
24, and poorly educated. It says school should have policies to | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
build pupils' character, regularly assessing their strength of | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
character. It also says schools which fail to educate pupils | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
properly should be fined, and it addresses the scourge of youth | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
unemployment. Now, when you have unemployment at around a million, | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
it is interesting and helpful that the report recommends a guarantee | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
of a job for young people who have been unemployed for over a year. It | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
costs about �400 million to do that for all those who have been | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
unemployed for over a year. Is that a problem for the report, that | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
things aren't costed? In that case, it is a sensible policy. They would | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
have to say how it is paid for. It is fair criticism of the report | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
that it recommends a wide number of things we would all like to see | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
happen, for example, one-to-one support for kids falling behind in | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
school, the challenge is how to pay for it, what other things do we cut | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
to make that possible. The worst public disorder in a | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
generation was the result of multiple causes, with dreadful | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
consequences. The riots report makes no fewer than 63 | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
recommendations, many will cost dear. Does the Government now turn | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
its attention to the newly- identified half a million forgotten | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
families, the young unemployed, commercialisation, the police, | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
schools building stronger characters, where to start? Let's | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
see if we have ideas now. The authors of the report are so cross | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
it has been leaked before its formal publication tomorrow, they | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
don't want to talk about it tonight. We have the Tottenham MP, David | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
Lammy, who recently wrote a book about the riots. | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
We have a former speechwriter for David Cameron and work he is with | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
young people. And Pauline Pearce, who confronted rioters in Hackney. | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
Have you learned anything new from this report? No, obviously a lot of | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
the issues, as the MP for Tottenham, are very real to me, and indeed, I | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
talked about after the summer. I think there are issues in relation | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
to worklessness, particularly, issues around materialism and | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
consumerism, fatherlessness, I think, is a real problem. Coming to | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
some of those in a few minutes, there is a lot of waffle in the | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
report, but there are specific injunctions, hard to see how it | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
could be realised, schools teaching moral character, is that doable? | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
one of the institutions responsible for looking after young people, | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
they should be thinking about that. I think it is a remarkable report, | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
because of that agenda. For the first time, in an official public, | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
political report, we have recommendations around character, | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
around the principle that young people make moral choices, and that | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
we should be bolstering the values and attitudes and habits which | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
encourage them to make the right choices, rather than automatically | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
assuming that the only answer is more money, or better system, all | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
of which are important, but this emphasis on character and | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
resilience they are making is key. I don't want to embarrass you, we | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
will remind our viewers of when we saw you last summer. You are in | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
this clip we are going to see now, you are actually confronting the | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
rioters and asking specifically that they behave in a morally | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
different kind of way. Let's have a quick look. She's working hard to | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
make her business work, and you lot want to go and burn it up, for what, | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
just to say you are badman? Now, the key thing here, is how you | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
encourage people to have a different sort of moral character, | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
do you have any ideas about that? We have to change the mind set. It | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
is going to be hard, but because these children have been brought up | :08:44. | :08:54. | |
with no, it is -- not no parental guidance, a lot of discipline has | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
been taken away from parents, and after the riots it was parents | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
bring your children in, how can you, when Littlejohny hasn't been | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
listening to you for ten years, because if you raise your hand he | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
will ring the police, and you have a court case on your hands for | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
disciplining your child. Is there enough about individual | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
responsibility in this analysis? there enough? I think each person's | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
responsible for themselves, when they get to a certain age, you know | :09:20. | :09:29. | |
right from wrong. Now, how do you inculcate that idea? The first | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
thing to say is most of the rioters were not school age. There is a lot | :09:33. | :09:43. | |
:09:43. | :09:44. | ||
of attention on young people, these were adults. At 21 you were | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
responsible for your own actions, the chap who burnt down that | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
building in Croydon was 30. There are deep, cultural, social issues | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
here, and, of course, very poor policing at the beginning of this | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
riot, led to a vacuum in which people felt, I'll just take my | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
opportunity. But the question is, why did they feel no sense of shame, | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
no sense of guilt, no sense of stake in terms of taking that | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
responsibility. That's not, I think, about laying it at the door of | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
schools. I think teachers are hard- pressed as it is, they are doing | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
loads. I do think it is about Government and jobs, and those | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
sorts of things, I also think it is about parents, communities, and | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
actually addressing some of the economic problems in this country, | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
that have gone on under successive Governments, pulling away from | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
communities and families, not supporting them. What can be done | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
to encourage people to take more responsibility for their own | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
behaviour? I think we need to be clearer about what the consequences | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
of behaving badly are. We need to be very straight forward about | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
criminality, and what that institutes, and -- constitutes, and | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
not pretending that what was going on was a political protest. Making | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
it clear that the whole victim mentality, and the victim culture, | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
the cynicism. I work with ex- offenders and young people, many of | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
whom have had terrible upbringings and come through really difficult | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
circumstances, many of them have a really good attitude to their own | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
lives and responsibilities, there is also this huge culture of | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
cynicism. And this great sense that all the institutions in our country | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
is corrupt, everyone from the journalist, the politicians, and | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
the bankers are in it for themselves and out on the take, and | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
there is no sense in which they themselves can be expected to | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
behave better. I'm not blaming the people at the top, but there is a | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
general culture of encouraging people not to be responsibility. | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
You dismiss the idea of victimhood, the report mentions, look at | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
materialism, some extremely clever, very well resourced people, are | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
telling young people that the only way they can respect themselves and | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
be respected by others, is by acquiring bits of clothing, bits of | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
electronic junk, overpriced, which they cannot afford. It is social | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
acceptance, it is breeding that. It is making these children feel and | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
adults, let's face it, there are adults out there that feel the same, | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
you are not accepted in the community or society, lest you are | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
boping down the road in the latest name-brand clothes. It is all about | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
that out there, I don't care what anyone else says, I live there, I | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
see it every day. It is all about, I need a new pair of trainers, I | :12:24. | :12:33. | |
have to get this much and that much. We could get advertisers to be more | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
responsible, but the rest of us learn how to resist advertising and | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
defer gratification, advertising will always encourage us to buy and | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
consume. I have to say, this is the liberalism we have tole challenge. | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
It is the economic liberalism that says you are free to make money, | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
however you want, and there are consequences, and particular | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
consequences in societies like our's, America has a similar | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
problem, at the poorest end, and at the workless end. So it does mean | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
we have got to look again at banning advertising. At | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
particularly for young people. We have to challenge. It is | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
unacceptable for the chief executive of JD Sports to say fine, | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
this helps my brand. There is a problem there, and Government can | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
do and legislate to change that. There probably is a role for | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
Government there, there is a role for our culture, we need to object | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
that sort of brand promotion, it is not for Government to be insisting | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
on how different companies project themselves. What about the point | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
that is made about the 500,000 families, the report talks about | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
"bumping along on the bottom of society". That is a very, very | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
significant number of people, isn't it? For me, personally, I'm glad | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
they have accepted that this report has shown that. Because it is | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
nothing short of what I have been saying from day one on every | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
interview I have had, since the riots. It is about, there are very | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
poor class families out there, really scraping along to make ends | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
meet. And the cuts haven't made things any easier on them. I think | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
there is a group of working poor, parents who actually do care, but | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
are working really long hours, often in two jobs, security guard | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
and minicab driver, and then there are a group of workless poor, it is | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
not just worklessness for the children, it is the parents, it is | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
successive generations. That is what combines areas like Tottenham, | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
with areas like Salford, and other parts of the country, where we saw | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
riots. Successive generations. poverty doesn't he can cues moral | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
judgment? It doesn't, it is actual -- Excuse moral judgment? | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
doesn't, for every rioter there were hundreds who did not riot, | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
that is a success story. That is why I'm nervous about the | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
assumption that we can blame it all on schools. In Tottenham we got the | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
best GCSE and A-level results last summer, nobody chose to cover it. | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
Nevertheless, it does feel like these entrenched problems, in | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
England particularly, are getting worse, not better. Unless we are | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
serious in addressing it. This shouldn't just be another report | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
that festers and we do nothing about it, we will see further | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
unrest, I'm absolutely sure about that. On the families policy, the | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
report seems to make a distinction between the troubled families, that | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
the Government is targeted, and the 500,000 families that are bumping | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
along the bottom. I can't believe there is a huge distinction between | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
them. The Government's Troubled Families Programme, I think, is on | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
the right tracks, trying to consolidate all the services and | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
all the budgets, all the professional agencies, which tinker | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
about with the lives of very difficult circumstances for | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
families, and bringing it together. It might be a technocratic response, | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
I believe ultimately it is the you will culture we need to address, | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
but Government is deeply involved in the lives of these families, | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
they are on the right track. We will leave it there. Thank you | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
very much. The Government has either come up | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
with a brilliant way of liberating the economy from a lot of | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
unnecessary restrictions, or it has put all sorts of places in the land | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
at risk of bulldozers and concrete mixers. The headlines of the new | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
planning laws are simple enough to right, a bonfire of regulation, a | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
system of clear priorities, and all implemented at once. The problem, | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
as ever, is interpretation, what do words like "sustainable | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
development", which is what's supposed to be the underlying | :16:32. | :16:42. | |
:16:42. | :16:54. | ||
principle, actually mean. Before we Sir Frederick Osborn was one of the | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
founders of welling garden city, in its time a pioneer town. It was | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
planned 50 years ago, to give a better life to people from the | :17:03. | :17:11. | |
crowded cities. Today urban planning is a | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
desiccated endurance test, but it was, a pleasurable past time. In | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
the 90 years since Sir Frederick was at it, the rate of house | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
building has not recovered. Not perfect, but popular, that is | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
how David Cameron described places like this, we willing garden city, | :17:27. | :17:35. | |
he wants more such -- -- he wants more such towns built. When the | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
planning laws were less strict in the 1950s, people could build nice | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
places to live. The new laws today won't just apply to existing towns | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
but new communities as well. People are fearful of that. A lot of it is | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
imprecise, and open to subjective judgment, you will have arguments | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
between local authorities and councils, it could be a problem. | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
What is our instinct for a Government wanting this to be a | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
pro-growth policy? I have no problem with pro-growth, it needs | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
to be tempered with consideration about what impact their policies | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
are having on a community in which it is applied. Today the Government | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
think they have come up with something their critics will buy, | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
the Chancellor was unrepentant, it is a pro-growth Government. When I | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
launched the growth strategy last year, I said planning reform was a | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
critical party of it, a central measure. A year later we have, with | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
all the challenges of making sure it is properly consulted on and so | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
on, implemented a policy that comes into effect today. No-one, to my | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
knowledge, has changed planning rules in this country in a | :18:40. | :18:47. | |
generation as quickly as we have. Before contemplating digs up green | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
field, there is now guidance that brownfield sites and town centres | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
must be built on first. There is also a statement that the | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
countryside has an intrinsic value, something not set out before. But | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
the presumption in favour of sustainable development remains. | :19:02. | :19:11. | |
The Treasury insists its critics have only really run expanded | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
definitions. Do these 50 pages do enough for the foot soldiers of | :19:16. | :19:24. | |
Osborne,. My concern is it will get mixed up with localism and a whole | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
range of other debates. I see no sign or indication that the level | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
of bureaucracy will be reduced. home of shredded wheat was in this | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
town, and there was a push to turn the old HQ into Tesco's, it was | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
blocked by locals, and its champions don't think today's | :19:44. | :19:54. | |
reforms would change that decision. Instead, one of the main critics, | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
the National Trust, declared, fairly quickly, they were happy | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
with the new reforms. The Campaign to Protect Rural England is too. | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
There was definitely proposals to build four or five thousand houses | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
on these fields there. You sound upbeat, but there is that phrase, | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
"the presumption of sustainable building". It was explained very | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
clearly. Even though the phrase is there? It is the golden thread | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
running through the planning policy, is the "presumption of sustainable | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
development", the first worry is there is not a serious definition | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
of sustainable, we we know what it means, but there is the presumption | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
in favour of development, it is a growth tool, it is all about the | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
economic growth. Our concern has always been that economic growth | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
becomes paramount over everything else, including looking after | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
beautiful countryside like this. Only years ahead of Welling Garden | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
City's centinary, the Government is trying to mimic the house building | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
frenzy of that era. The critics have their concerns but have got | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
enough to stay quiet. The romantic utopia's the of the | :21:09. | :21:19. | |
:21:19. | :21:19. | ||
20s, to the not so pro-growth policy of the 2012. | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
We have our guests with us. The last time you were on, you said you | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
had a whole pile of stores you wanted to open, but planning was | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
holding you back, will this framework, which is now being | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
implemented, change that? Yes, it will. It will make a big difference. | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
What it will mean is people will have to have a good reason to say | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
no. There are lots of good reasons to say no, but in the past it has | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
been no is the answer, now you come and tell me why you should create | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
jobs and this new job. Are these changes to the policy announced | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
today sufficient to persuade you it is worth giving a whirl to? Yes, | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
frankly, we had a dreadful document before. It was really a cowboy's | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
charter, frankly, we had a huge campaign about it, the Government | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
listened. They have made substantive changes, real changes. | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
The difference of tone in the document, it reads differently t | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
has not been written by a lobbyist but a planner. It is a good | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
document. A lot of things we are worried about, we can talk about | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
those, basic clo we are supportive. What are you wore -- Basically we | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
are supportive. What are you worried about? The concept you were | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
talking about, sustainable development. I wonder if you both | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
understand the same thing by it? The document expands it drapbl | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
mattically, I still -- Dramatically. I think there will be litigation | :22:36. | :22:44. | |
galore about it, anyone who thinks it will shorten the planning policy, | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
it won't. What do you understand the sustainable development to | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
mean? I'm not sure about the word "sustainable". Why are you in | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
favour of the policy? I think development creates jobs and the | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
homes we need, that will be vital to get the economy going. If you | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
ask me what I think sustainable means and what the Government mean | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
by it, I think they mean something in 50 years time we will look at | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
and say I'm glad we built that. you share this view that | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
development is absolutely key to growth? There is no evidence at all, | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
there is no evidence that the planning system in Britain | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
constrained growth. I'm sure Simon could find cases where he was | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
infuriated by being turned down. I have been turned down in my time. | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
Sometimes for a perfectly good reason, that is not planning, it is | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
a bad original proposal. Broadly speaking, 90% of all applications | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
get approved. The system is not rotten. What was bad was the delay | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
and the pernickityness of some of the controls. There were detailed | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
controls imposed by planners on the form of the building. It was | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
clearly pro-growth to buy a development in favour of urban | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
renewal. The previous Government was against that. It actually -- | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
previous development was against that. It removed the presumption | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
and has been reinstated. If the National Trust and various others | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
are in favour of the new policy, I wonder if it is as key to growth as | :24:14. | :24:22. | |
you seem to suggest? It is key to growth I think there was: It is | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
funny that you have come completely contradicty conclusions? This was | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
never the threat to the the countryside that people thought it | :24:34. | :24:41. | |
was. Planning is an enormous barrier to growth. You may say it | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
is not, I have 15 shops I would like to open on brownfield sites, | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
and would have 1,000 jobs for people, and I can't do it because | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
of planning. You are saying it is not holding back growth, but it is. | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
It is holding back your shops, one could say 12 shops are closing down | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
for all of your shops. Planning is not about profit, it is about the | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
best way to allocate land. I said growth and jobs, not profit. I hope | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
in your case it is profitable, but either way, the essence of this | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
thing is plan, the previous development was effectively a | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
building permit system, like in Ireland or Spain. It was a bad | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
document. You thought it was terrific, I thought it was dreadful. | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
It is gone. We now have a planning- based approach, which is what we | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
had before, which is the right way of approaching this. It is nothing | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
to do with growth. We are both in favour of growth, I think all | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
development is favour of growth, and conservation is in favour of | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
growth. Growth happens when the demand in the economy is right. Our | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
concern was to protect the countryside. I think this document | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
more protects the countryside than was the case before. More protects | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
the countryside, yet you believe it is critical to growth? Absolutely, | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
I don't believe that actually concreting over the countryside was | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
what growth is all about. There may be a small amount of unattractive | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
countryside that is required for growth. What do you think has | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
changed in this legislation? don't think a great deal has | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
changed. The protection for green belt was there, and areas of | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
outstanding natural beauty is there. Things like protected playing field | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
and the value to countryside in its own right has an added. It shifts | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
the burp, that is now on the planner d burden of proop, that is | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
on the planner to find a good reason to -- the burden of proof, | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
the onus is on the planner to find a good reason to say no. There was | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
always a presumption in favour of development, the question was did | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
it conform to the plan. The problem is planning was fragmented under | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
the last Government, they dissolved most of planning. We have a | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
situation where the new document says there has to be plan, get on | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
with it and do it in the next year. That is a major requirement for | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
everybody. Under the plan, which can be a pro-growth plan, there is | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
no problem there, the normal conflicts you have, in any | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
community, about the use of land, should be resolved in a certain way. | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
In my view, in favour of urban renewal, rather than countryside | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
building. It should be in favour of respecting the countryside, the | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
intrinsic value of the countryside, and it should be sustainable, in a | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
sense you are using existing infrastructure. All these things | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
have been done now there will be a hellish amount of lawyers, there | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
will be an awful lot of delay, it won't be much cheaper, but it is | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
better than it used to be. proof of the pudding will be in the | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
eating, or in the courts, or planning tribunals. Thank you very | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
much. When do you reckon the Chancellor | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
of the Exchequer, George Osborne, last had a pasty from the high | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
street baker Greggs, we will find now the a moment. This unearth | :27:46. | :27:53. | |
shattering revelation is of passing interest, because last year's | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
budget slapped money on warm meat pies and common delicacies, the | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
boss of Greggs went to the Treasury today to put them right, at the | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
same time Mr Osborne was answering this killer question at a select | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
committee hearing on the budget. When's the last time you bought a | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
pastie in Greggs. Look, I can't remember the last time I bought a | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
pastie in Greggs. That kind of sums it up. When was the last time? | :28:22. | :28:30. | |
you are putting up the price of hot pasties in Greggs, if I buy a | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
pastie from Greggs that is oaked hot, but by the time it gets in the | :28:36. | :28:43. | |
paper bag and I take it away it is cold, will it be VATable or not? | :28:43. | :28:51. | |
it is cold, when you buy it, it will not be. Ken McMeikan is the | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
boss of Greggs, the bakery, is here, he spent the afternoon in the | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
Treasury. What did you tell them was the reason why you shouldn't be | :28:57. | :29:05. | |
subject to VAT on your pasties? We're very clear, freshly baked | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
bakery food has not been subject to VAT. We currently pay VAT on hot | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
food, but bakery food, freshly baked in our shops, it is cooled | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
down and not kept hot, we don't believe, should be subject to VAT, | :29:21. | :29:29. | |
and was previously he can empted it from it -- he can cemented from it | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
before. Are you saying there is something uniquely privileged about | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
your pasties? We are saying the bakery industry will be | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
significantly impacted by a product, we believe, best made fresh, in our | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
shops, baked in an oven, and cooled down and served for our customer, | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
this tax will put 20% on the price of save rees that were previously | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
not subject to VAT and shouldn't be subject to VAT. If you buy a | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
McDonalds, that is subject to VAT, isn't it? It is, and in the same | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
way we have our hot sandwiches, which we keep hot. Your bacon rolls | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
are subject to VAT? They are, correct. Absolutely right, | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
McDonalds will keep their's hot and serve their product hot. We on our | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
savourys offer our customers a freshly-baked savoury that is not | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
guaranteed hot. What is so special about a sausage roll or pastie? | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
point about it is, the best way as a quality baker is to make them | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
fresh and cool them down and serve them to customers. That guarantees | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
for the customer the best and freshest project. We can only do | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
that by making the product in the shop and allowing it to cool down. | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
We don't keep it heated to serve it as a hot product, we can't | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
guarantee if it is hot. The subject around whether a customer should | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
pay VAT on it or not is irrelevant, they shouldn't. It is not designed | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
as a hot product. Do you think the Chancellor really understands the | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
Cornish pastie problem? No, I think they have, to a degree, lost touch | :31:02. | :31:09. | |
with the issue here. That for ordinary, hard working families, | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
putting 20% on a product that is freshly baked, will make a severe | :31:15. | :31:22. | |
dent in their pockets, at a time when they can ill-afford it. Not | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
only should this not have happened, the former Chancellor of the | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
Exchequer, Lawson, wrote to the Treasury back in 1984, said it | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
shouldn't be subject to VAT for freshly baked product. The other | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
issue you have here, which the Government haven't understood, they | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
are talking about trying to simplify something, they will make | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
huge complexties in the definition of what is ambient air temperature, | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
and are we expected now to almost temperature probe every single | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
product we sell. Clearly not, you have to make an estimate of how | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
many are hot and cold. The political point is why Nigel Lawson | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
had this instinctive understanding of the ordinary person's liking for | :32:01. | :32:08. | |
a meat pie or something, and George Osborne doesn't? Well, clearly, we | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
know that Nigel Lawson had a very different view, George Osborne, I | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
think, would benefit from coming and spending time with us and our | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
customers and actually seeing, operationally, why we believe, as | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
bakers, making a freshly baked product is different from trying to | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
sell a hot product, which we already pay VAT on. Do you think | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
the Treasury will change their minds on it? I hope for the bake of | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
the baking industry they do. you did they give you any | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
indication they would change their minds? We gave them plenty to think | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
about today. I have reassured them that I will categorically campaign | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
on behalf of the UK consumer and the bakery industry, I feel there | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
will be job losses and closure of businesses as a result of it. | :32:51. | :32:58. | |
on, you made �60 million profit last year? We made �53.1 million, | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
we are the largest bakery in the UK, with a great reputation for value. | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
We deliver profits because of great tasting, freshly baked products and | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
we do it well. We try to keep the price of food down low for cows | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
tomorrow mers. If you were watching this time last night, you will have | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
seen the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, jauntly slugging off the | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
name-calling that has haunted her country for decades. There are | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
still Nazi in Germany, the question for many is how many, the security | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
sources are scrambling to track down and arrest far right fugutives, | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
after discovering a neo-Nazi cell murdered nine people over as many | :33:45. | :33:55. | |
:33:55. | :33:57. | ||
years. This report contains strong, racial low offensive language. -- | :33:57. | :34:07. | |
:34:07. | :34:08. | ||
The number of armed and violent neo-Nazis is on the rise. The far | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
right movement is diversifying, attracting growing numbers of | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
students and middle-class professionals. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
Revelations of mass murder and hate crimes forced the German | :34:20. | :34:28. | |
authorities to admit they have done too little for too long. | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
Is Germany's Nazi past preventing it from fighting right-wing | :34:32. | :34:41. | |
extremism now? Last November, among the wreckage | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
of this burnt out flat, police uncovered one of the biggest | :34:45. | :34:53. | |
scandals of Germany's post-war history. The home had been to these | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
three known neo-Nazi activists, on the run for years. Remaining at | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
large, despite carrying out, by their own admission, at least nine | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
murders and a number of bombings. This woman turned herself into the | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
police, her acomplises were found dead in a van, in an apparent | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
double suicide. Police found a version of monopoly | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
that the woman had been selling. Germany's Intelligence Service | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
showed Newsnight the name. Concentration camps are the most | :35:23. | :35:33. | |
desirable properties on the board. This is what shocked the German | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
public most, the trio left this home made DVD, rather bizarrely | :35:37. | :35:45. | |
using the Pink Pan they are cartoon character, to publicise that they | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
had been a killing spree of racially motivated murders | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
nationwide. The trio said they acted to serve the German people | :35:52. | :35:59. | |
and their country. They sign off as a National | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
Socialist Underground, or NSU, echoing the National Associationism | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
of Hitler's Germany. Police say they had no idea. | :36:07. | :36:14. | |
They blamed those murders on the Turkish Mafia. | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
Newsnight has seen a secret internal report, revealing serious | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
blunders by law enforcement agencies. | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
They had the group under close surveillance for years, but never | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
took decisive action, allowing them to go into hiding, and remain | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
underground. Why weren't they stopped before | :36:31. | :36:41. | |
:36:41. | :36:43. | ||
they began to kill? In this moment, in my eyes, it was | :36:43. | :36:53. | |
:36:53. | :37:02. | ||
necessary to arrest those people, at once. In my eyes. Why not? | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
can't explain it, I can't explain it. We thought we had two or three | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
times, it was not possible to arrest them. I can't explain it, | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
don't ask me. We did keep asking him, but he had | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
no answers for us. Allegations have been made in Germany, not just of | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
incompetence, but right-wing sympathies inside the country's | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
Secret Services and police force. Something the institutions | :37:29. | :37:37. | |
vehemently deny. Here in Germany it is impossible to discuss far right, | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
even nationalist activity in isolation, outside the context of | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
this country's Nazi past. Germany's post-war constitution was very much | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
written in the vein of "never again", the story of the | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
nationalist socialist underground throws up disturbing questions. | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
Just how is it that a militant group of Neo-Nazis was allowed to | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
flourish, and just how popular and how powerful are the far right, and | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
nationalist extremists in Germany today? | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
Human rights groups say more than 180 people have been killed in | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
right-wing attacks in Germany over the last 20 years. | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
Neo-Nazis have murdered more people in post-war Germany, than any other | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
single group, including Islamists and the far left. This is not | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
reflected in official data. The German Government admits mistakes | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
have been made. Martin is a former Neo-Nazi leader, he has now left | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
the movement and asked us to hide his identity. | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
He says the Neo-Nazi trio's murderous exploits should have come | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
as no surprise. TRANSLATION: militant scene has always said we | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
need people who are willing and able and trained, in case it comes | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
to civil war. The scene is armed, it is military. This does lead to | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
people being killed. Weapons training is carried out in secret, | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
in the Arab world, for instance, with freedom movements there. The | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
right-wing scene sees itself as a freedom movement. | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
Martin was mart part of a growing movement of -- part of a growing | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
movement of secret jif far right groups in Germany, known as the | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
Free Forces. No longer rooted in the past, these groups tend not to | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
call themselves Nazi, or Neo-Nazi, but rather the Free Forces. They | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
are attracting a new crowd, students, middle-classes and | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
intellectuals. They are harnessing social media, and using new modern | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
forms and reasons for protest. When it comes to them one intelligence | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
agent told me that the Security Services here in Germany really are | :39:39. | :39:49. | |
:39:49. | :40:01. | ||
This group, The Immortals, is part of the new crowd. Anti- | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
globalisation, anti-capitalist, and anti-democratic, they warn of the | :40:05. | :40:15. | |
:40:15. | :40:16. | ||
impending extinction of the German Hard for the authorities to catch, | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
they use text messaging to organise spontaneous demos across the | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
country, like this one, in their propaganda video. After 15 minutes | :40:24. | :40:32. | |
on the street, they have gone. TRANSLATION: The leadership is | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
always trying to attract members of the called "upper-classs" students | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
who one day can act as lawyers or doctors for the scene, really do | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
something to help the movement. You would never imagine those sorts of | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
people supported the far right, and they may deny their affiliation in | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
public, but they are very much part of the movement. More so now than | :40:51. | :41:01. | |
:41:01. | :41:05. | ||
ever before. What exactly do they want, far right supporters are | :41:05. | :41:14. | |
camera shy, they say they are looked for by police. We went to | :41:14. | :41:21. | |
the most famous Neo-Nazi pub to see if anyone would be tempted to talk. | :41:21. | :41:28. | |
After a few cocktails, the former head of a banned Neo-Nazi group sat | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
down with us. TRANSLATION: Who are we? We are nationalists, we care | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
deeply about the fatherland, we don't like the state that exists | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
here now, we want to rebuild the country, for our brothers and | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
sisters, the German people. We want to protect our culture, country and | :41:45. | :41:52. | |
religion. In Britain you too are proud of your country. Here in | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
Germany I am a second class citizen, we live with war guilt here in | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
Germany. Others get preferential treatment, outsiders. Those who say | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
this pub is full of Nazis, how do they know, they try to ban us. | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
British owner of the pub asked us to hide his identity to protect his | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
family. He was amongst many that who complained about strict German | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
laws used to persecute the far right? If the German Government | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
make laws that you can't express your freedom of speech, there will | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
be an uprising, it will happen. Just because it will be forbidden. | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
It will happen. If they let these laws go, then people will be a lot | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
more freer, they will say what they think, there will be more | :42:39. | :42:45. | |
discussion. They won't have as many political problems as they do today. | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
What many law makers say they don't like, is that the far right rejects | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
the German federal Republic, the nationalists want a new order in | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
Germany, non-democratic, non- multicultural. | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
In the meantime, some are establishing what they call | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
national liberated zones, dotted across the country. | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
We are on our way to Jamel, it is the only village that really has | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
been completely taken over by Neo- Nazis in Germany to date. They have | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
all the houses now except for one. They have pretty much forced out | :43:24. | :43:32. | |
all the other villagers. In the middle of the village is | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
this Nazi Germany-styled mural, proclaiming the area is free, | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
social and national. The German authorities recently forced the | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
villagers to take down a sign post pointing towards Hitler's birth | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
place. People here weren't particularly pleased to see us, or | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
talk to us. Prior to coming here I tried to organise an interview with | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
the leading family of the village. They weren't keen on our camera. | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
You find liberated zones in German towns and cities too. There have | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
been cases of riots, arson and murder, in the far right efforts to | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
cleanse those areas, a couple of streets, or a sprawling housing | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
estate, getting rid of all those they regard as political enemies, | :44:17. | :44:24. | |
immigrants, ethnic minorities, liberals or left-wingers. Far right | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
groups also run summer camps for children and families like this one | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
in north Germany, filmed a few years ago. This youth organisation | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
was later banned. The German Interior Ministry said | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
it was indoctrinating children in Nazi ideology, as well as giving | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
them military training. But the courtship of youngsters continues. | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
The nationalists run youth clubs and sports clubs. They are playing | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
the social card in the current economic Croy sis, offering welfare | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
advice, and family assist -- crisis, offering welfare advice and family | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
assistance, hoping to attract new supporters. The NPD is the legal | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
political will of the far right, it has elected representatives in two | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
out of Germany's 16 state parliaments. | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
Udo Pastoerss is the deputy leader of the MPD nationwide, and its | :45:17. | :45:26. | |
leader, in the regional parliament. TRANSLATION: German children need | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
the land. We want to keep the German people alive, with our own | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
biological vitality. So that tomorrow, and the day after, | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
Germany still earns the name Germany, because imagine a country | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
called Germany, that is filled only with Africans, with us importing | :45:46. | :45:56. | |
:45:56. | :45:56. | ||
nice little sweet ligger children. The German Government says it is | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
looking to ban the N PD, because of the party's association with | :46:01. | :46:08. | |
extremists, its alleged links with the Neo-Nazi killer trio, and the | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
questioning of the Holocaust. I asked Udo Pastoerss what he thought | :46:13. | :46:22. | |
of Hitler? TRANSLATION: Look here, if one speaks about a historical | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
figure, it is impossible to do so during a short interview. REPORTER: | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
I could asking many people what they thought about Hitler and they | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
would answer in a few short words? TRANSLATION: Those are emotions, | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
not facts. REPORTER: But you are totally avoiding my question, what | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
do you think of Hitler and what of the six million Jews? TRANSLATION: | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
Let me point out to you that in Germany you are punishable by law | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
if you don't accept the authorities' version of what | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
happened at Auschwitz, I ask for your understanding, I do not wish | :47:03. | :47:13. | |
to talk about these issues, I do not live in a free country. | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
German nationalists say they represent the German people. Most | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
Germans insist they certainly do not. | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
But statistics indicate the eurocrisis, and wider economic woes, | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
means increasing numbers are sympathetic to the anti-immigrant, | :47:32. | :47:39. | |
"Germans-first" message, espoused by the right. | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
This was the state memorial service, last month, for the victims of the | :47:44. | :47:49. | |
National Socialist Underground. Just a few days before, more than | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
2,000 Neo-Nazis marched in Dresden. At the memorial there was a | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
profound sense of remorse. With political promises to crackdown on | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
the far right. But as the story fades from the national headlines, | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
human rights groups say they are concerned the Neo-Nazi issue will | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
be neglected again. It is a minority movement, but Germany's | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
nationalists, and the called Free Forces, are a force that needs to | :48:15. | :48:25. | |
be dealt with. The question is how? Tomorrow night we will discuss what | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
impact Germany's recent past has had on its ability to take a | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
leading role in Europe. That's it, the fat lady has sung, the well is | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
dry, the washing machine of news has reached its final spin cycle, | :48:36. | :48:46. | |
:48:46. | :49:11. | ||
Hello, more warm sunshine to come on Wednesday. But first thing it is | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
going to be a bit chilly, temperatures are falling away | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
sharply, one or two mist and fog patches, they will clear, then | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
sunshine. Northern Scotland it will be clear. The sunshine will lift | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
the temperatures in England. Starting below freezing in rural | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
areas, by the afternoon above 20 degrees, 23 in some parts of | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
eastern England. Further west 21 likely to be the top temperature. A | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
little cooler around the coast, a beautiful spring day. Lots of | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
sunshine around south-west England, sunny skies across much of Wales | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
and North West England, it is a similar picture in Northern Ireland. | :49:48. | :49:55. | |
Chilly by the afternoon, 19 in Belfast, and in May it may exceed | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
the local records. A warm, sunny day across most of Scotland, cloud | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
across the far north, a spot or two of rain here. Increasing amounts of | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
cloud for the rest of the week, that will have an impact on the | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
temperatures, still well above average. | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
Still we could reach 20 degrees or more in parts of the thought. | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
Plenty of sunshine after a chilly start. Again it may be just a bit | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
of mist and fog on Thursday morning. Increasing cloud over Scotland, | :50:23. | :50:27. |