Browse content similar to 18/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It started in Greece, it's heading for London, and it's definitely | :00:13. | :00:22. | |
going to cost a lot of money. Predictions of contagion follow a | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
possible Greek exit tonight, as the world's richest leaders gather at | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
Camp David, the top of the agenda, save the eurozone. They have been | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
sizing up the French President, as we come on air strikes he has been | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
meeting another new friend for cordial advice. They can't keep | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
kicking the can down the road, decisive about banks, Greece and | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
the firewall. This is in Britain's interest too. All eyes are on | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
Francois Hollande. But will the platform he's just been elected on | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
make agreement even harder. In Greece, with a political crisis | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
on top of a chronic economic crisis, what's it like to be running a | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
Greek town when the Runcies out. Lg TRANSLATION: We hope to get support | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
from central Government or the EU, if this doesn't happen the council | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
will collapse, and we will have to return to our old currency the | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
drachma, and we will be bankrupt. We will hear from Mohamed El-Erian | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
who runs one of the world's leading investment companies, and the views | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
from Germany, Greece and here at home. Away from the economy. What | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
sort of advice do you get here. Would you like the Government to | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
help you be a good parent. David Cameron thinks you might. Is this | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
almost literally the nanny state. Kirstie Allsop debates with the | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
Centre for Parenting Studies. Good evening, one of the reasons | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
American Presidents like taking foreigners to Camp David, is to | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
remove them from distractions, like playing to the media back home. | :01:53. | :02:01. | |
Tonight the leaders of the G8 are sequestered in the presidential | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
retreat in The Very Hungry Caterpillar mountain, surrounded by | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
trees and discussing the world economy. There are report that is | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
Angela Merkel called the Greece President suggesting he hold a | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
referendum on whether Greece is in or out of the euro, in parallel | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
with elections. This is disputed. Do we face a meltdown and more | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
economic chaos. Is Greece going to dominate the | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
talks? It will dominate the talks. There was a full agenda for the | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
meeting, they are not so frequent these get togethers of leading | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
industrial heads of state in Government. People tell me there | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
were issues like the Arab Spring, Iran's nuclear programme. Very | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
important for America should petrol reserves be released on to the | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
world market, to keep the prices down for the US elections. But, | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
they are all being asked about this Greek question, and in that sense, | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
it is an inconvenient franc. For Mr Cameron, this is his first -- | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
factor. For Mr Cameron, that is his first chance to speak to Francois | :03:11. | :03:20. | |
Hollande. The agenda, it is said, was meant to be about making | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
friends. There is no conflict between austerity and growth, you | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
need a strong deficit reduction for growth. President Hollande believes | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
that, I believe that, I'm looking forward to meeting him. The French | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
plan looks at doing it faster than the British plan, I'm looking | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
forward to common agendas. Are they any closer on any agreement about | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
what to do about Greece? In one sense, some people are saying the | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
buzz is they don't have to be closer just yet. There will be | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
another important European meeting next week, in which they hope to | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
get a more coherent line about this growth versus austerity thing that | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
the Prime Minister was talking about there. They also, of course, | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
have to wait for the outcome of this next Greek election, before | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
they can say definitive things. They have got a bit of breathing | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
space. But there are interesting noises coming out. Mr Hollande, in | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
the Oval Office, with President Obama this evening, saying you know, | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Greece mustn't come out of the euro, we must move towards them. Quite a | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
positive-sounding message from him. There of course we have the sense | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
over the last couple of days of people almost ganging up on the | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
Germans, to say, look, ease up here, give them more time, be creative in | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
your thinking, put some growth into the mixture. All with the aim, | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
obviously, of stimulating growth more widely, but also helping | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
Greece off the hook. This German line about, or line coming out of | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
Greece, that the Germans are saying please have a referendum of in or | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
out of Europe, in parallel with the parliamentary elections, that is | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
very interesting, isn't it. It is right at the heart of the Greek | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
dilemma? It is very interesting, but I have to tell you, we simply | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
don't know what happened. The Greek President's statement -- spokesman, | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
said this afternoon there had been a phone call with Angela Merkel, | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
she had suggested a referendum, in or out of the euro to be added to | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
the ballot paper. Almost instantly the Germans denied t the Greeks | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
have reacted with outrage saying it smacks of interference with their | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
affairs. It might be a neat political idea, but now it will be | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
more difficult than ever to get it into that election. Mohamed El- | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
Erian runs the global investment company, PIMCO, the world's largest | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
bond investors. He joined me from California a few moments ago. Mr | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
El-Erian, is Greece on its way out of the euro? The probability of | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
Greece exiting the euro is increasing every day. The reason | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
why it is increasing every day is because depositors are losing | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
confidence. There is a saying that says if you see a line outside a | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
bank, join it. And if your money isn't in that bank go, to another | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
bank and join the line there. What we are seeing is we are seeing that | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
the Greek depositors are worrying about the safety of their savings. | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
If they continue to worry like that, and pull their money out, then | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
Greece will be forced to exit. Right, so should we really worry | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
about contagion, or is this just a little economy, and we shouldn't | :06:17. | :06:25. | |
care? It is a little economy, but we should care. The reason why, is | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
there is neither mechanism or precedent for anybody exiting the | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
eurozone. Nobody is quite sure how it happens, and no-one is quite | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
sure what happens there after. So there is likely to be a lot of | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
uncertainty. People will naturally pull back from the market place. | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
People will get cautious, and that, in itself, will translate contagion. | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
The second issue is people will wonder who is next, if Greece goes. | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
And people will focus particularly on Portugal. So while a Greek exit | :06:57. | :07:07. | |
is becoming increasingly inevitable, it is also increasing -- | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
increasingly inevitable that it will be messy. At the summit this | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
weekend, do you expect Obama, Hollande and Cameron, all to be | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
leaning very heavily on Merkel to do more, to stop Greece from | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
leaving? I suspect that the Americans will tell the European | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
counterparts what everybody is telling their European counterparts, | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
which is that you need to get ahead of the crisis not just catch up | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
with it, but ahead of it. I suspect we will hear all the right things, | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
including comments like they want Greece to remain in the eurozone. | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
So the narrative will be supportive. The problem is the narrative is not | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
sufficient it is not clear the Europeans are willing to do what is | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
sufficient, especially given how messy the politics have become in | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
Greece itself. Does that mean that in the case of Britain wrecks | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
should prepare for an even longer recession, and in the case of the | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
United States, you should prepare for your recovery being derailed | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
stkph Yes, this means it will be much more difficult for any | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
individual country to grow. When you lose your markets overseas, and | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
in particular when you lose your markets in the biggest economic | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
region in the world, it makes it that much tougher to grow, that | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
much tough Tory generate jobs and revenue for the budget. The | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
challenges that face countries like Britain and the US increases. The | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
good news is neither country is near a break point. This is not | :08:38. | :08:45. | |
tipping a country over a cliff, but rather making the recovery process | :08:45. | :08:54. | |
more difficult than it is already. Greece, of course, is currently | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
without an elected Government. New elections are scheduled for next | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
month. It is thought the far left opposed to the bail out package may | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
do well. Tim Whewell has been to the small Greek towns to find out | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
what life is like when the money runs out. | :09:09. | :09:16. | |
It is the town they boast that paid for the Parthenum, the silver | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
exported from the harbour, two-and- a-half millennia ago, filled the | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
coffers of nearby Athens. And the precious metal was mined here again | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
in the 1880s, when French engineers built this bridge to carry the ore | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
on to ships. But the mines are long closed. And this town, like the | :09:36. | :09:46. | |
rest of Greece, is running out of money. The Deputy Mayor helps run a | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
town where nearly one in three is unemployed. | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
At the end of the week, when hundreds of millions of euros were | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
withdrawn from Greek banks by nervous depositor, and Germany | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
warned there would be no more international bail out money, | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
unless Greece sticks to commitments to cut and cut again, he has to | :10:05. | :10:12. | |
work out how to pay the council's 360 staff. TRANSLATION: It's | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
dramatic, we only have money to cover two months worth of salaries. | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
After two months what will happen then? We hope to get support from | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
central Government or the EU. But if this doesn't happen, the council | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
will collapse. We will have to return to our old currency, the | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
drachma, we will be bankrupt. Shopping should have been the | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
town's salvation, after the local textile industry followed mining | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
into oblivion. Tourists, they hoped, would flock here, when the Metro | :10:42. | :10:50. | |
line was extended from Athens. But the Metro never came. This man has | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
seen sales in his shop decline by 30%, since the recession began to | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
bite, four or five years ago. TRANSLATION: It is very difficult, | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
people you have employed for many years are like a family. They are | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
not just employees. These people could be out on the street, and you | :11:07. | :11:15. | |
don't know what the future will hold for them. This is a town, | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
built on broken dreams. Not surprising, then, that people voted | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
overwhelmingly last week to punish the main parties. Opting instead | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
for the radicals, of right and left. And all the signs are, that they | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
will do the same thing again in the new elections next month. | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
A leap into the unknown, they feel, that can't be more dangerous than | :11:38. | :11:48. | |
:11:48. | :11:51. | ||
the hopeless reality they know. The moat tro, nobody prefers this | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
place of business so they don't come here. | :11:54. | :12:04. | |
:12:04. | :12:06. | ||
The local politician was once popular here, in this town, PASOK | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
came fifth, barely ahead of the far right. This man hopes the good | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
times will return to his party and his town. | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
If you bring the Metro here, there will be a revival, not only for the | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
region, but for the whole region. You are just kidding yourself, the | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
truth is, the Metro will never come, because the money isn't there? | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
believe the new Government will renegotiate the terms of the bail | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
out. Not to go out, to renegotiate, so with new terms, realistic terms, | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
and in the spot we are, we believe OK now we are in the bottom of the | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
sea, now the only thing is to drown or go up. The young people here say | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
they want the euro, but the immediate benefit of the EU to them | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
is less its currency than its jobs market. More and more are moving | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
abroad, or planning to. Like this young man, who trained as a captain | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
in Greece's most emblematic industry, shipping, but can't find | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
work here. We love our country, but we have to see hope in order to | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
stay here. Here there is no hope. The clouds over this once famous | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
port aren't lined with any silver now. Greece says Germany's | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
Chancellor Merkel has suggested Greeks hold a referendum on euro | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
membership, that is hotly denied in Berlin. In this town most refuse to | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
believe that Greece has to make the choice any way. But events Maysoon | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
prove them wrong. Here in the studio the nation's of | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
Europe are represented from Greece, we have The Nation's magazine, | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
Maria Margaronis, from Germany's Focus magazine, Imke Henkel, from | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
down the road, Fraser Nelson. Whatever you make of this | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
referendum idea, it goes to the idea heart of the dilemma for | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
Greece. You can't have it all, you can't be in the euro and not accept | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
the conditions for being in the euro? What people are hoping for | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
Greece, is this impossible dilemma will shift, with the election of | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
Hollande, the remarks made by President Obama yesterday, and the | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
general mood shifting from austerity, and the sense that this | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
is a crisis point. Either Greece will have to leave the euro, which | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
will be immensely costly, it was estimated at 225 billion euros, or | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
staying in, which will cost 65 billion euros, something will have | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
to give. There is a real sense that if we stick to our guns something | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
might change in Europe. And meaning in Germany, presumably? | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
Particularly in Germany. What is Merkel's strategy, is it we must | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
keep the euro at any cost, we are prisoners of our history, we have | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
to be good neighbours and this has to work? I think that is very much | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
the strategy. It really goes back to the euro being a political | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
project. Not an economic project. It is interesting, recently someone | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
from the Government said, we went into the euro, not to become rich, | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
but to live in peace and to live in safety. Which is a totally | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
different thing. That is really at the core of the problems we are | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
seeing today. We mentioned contradictions with Maria, but | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
there is conflict with Germany, it goes back to German history, not | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
rewarding bad behaviour and making sure people pay their taxes, that | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
is not going down well at home? is not, part of it is really the | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
political failure that the Germans were pitched against the Greeks. | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
And that we were told, we are the hard working really industrious | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
people, and the lazy Greeks and we have to pay for them. That is not | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
true. For example, if you look at the pension age, the average | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
pension age for Germans and Greeks is about the same. It is not as if | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
Greeks would go earlier. The problem for Greece is corruption | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
and elites. Germany did profit from the euro. It is a political failure | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
that at so point, and the politicians were clear enough | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
saying, we get something out of it, and that's why we have to pay. | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
Fraser, I wonder, listening to David Cameron today, there are | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
contradictions in his position, we must have eurobonds and centralised | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
fiscal authority, he sounds like they were ten years ago, we must | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
have this fiscal state, but we will not be in it? He reckons he knows a | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
solution for Europe, that you can have currency union without | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
political union, he thinks they should merge and France and Germany | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
cool their tax and cuts and spending. Britain is now offering | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
diagnosis on the continent, where once it wouldn't have done. His | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
problem, of course, David Cameron, is that pretty soon this will come | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
to head. I suspect that Greece will leave the EU, therefore it might be | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
up for renegotiation again. And he will have to come and work out what | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
relationship he wants with the rest of Europe. If this does go bang, | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
that is his opportunity to say it's time to stop giving advice to them, | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
and start saying what Britain wants out of this. Will it be for | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
ordinary Greek people a real humiliation to leave, or be kicked | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
out, however you phrase it, we failed some how to live up to the | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
expectations? I think at this point the humiliation has already been so | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
great. The humiliation of putting one this austerity being described, | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
movingly said, as the corrupt lazy ones who have caused the whole | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
European crisis. I think what leaving the euro will mean is more | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
a sense of political chaos, there is a great fear about it, it is are | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
we going to continue to be beaten up or are we going to jump off the | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
cliff. Which is a great choice! think for Greece too Europe was | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
very much a political project. It was about coming out of | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
dictatorship and becoming part of the community of nations. What we | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
have seen now is a political polarisation in Greece, that we | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
haven't seen since before the dictatorship. We are seeing neo- | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
fascist MPs for the first time in parliament. This is bad for the | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
German psyche too, presumptionably, you have Angela Merkel, this great | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
bully -- presumptionably, you have Angela Merkel telling us what to do. | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
If you have the Italian Government and what we prefer in France and | :18:33. | :18:42. | |
Greece, that is extremely bad for Germany's self-image? Absolutely. | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
It goes back to the creation of the euro as a political project. At the | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
foundations they thought they could force the political unity through | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
the economic unity. And now we have to pay dearly for it. The tragedy | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
is, quite the contrary, they are not living in peace, we are not | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
living safe, we have riots in Greece, we have the threat of | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
possible quite extreme Government in Greece. We don't know about | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
Spain. Spain is coming out, Spain was a dictatorship in the 1970s, | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
Portugal was. Europe now, all of a sudden, instead of coming to this | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
political unity, is instead on the brink of coming apart and being a | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
danger. Is that how you see it, in the sense that it could be Spain | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
next or Portugal next, as it was suggested, people will look for the | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
next weakest link. Once one can go from the unbreakable union, anybody | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
can go? Greece's economy is broadly about the size of the south-east of | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
England. It is not a big chunk in the europuzzle, if one country can | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
go and the drachma came back. It would be great for Greece, it would | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
plunge in value, and be competitive again. We would go there on holiday | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
next year. But it does set a precedent for Spain and the others, | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
if there is one, if an exit path is beaten by Greece, with what's to | :20:04. | :20:12. | |
stop the whole thing unravelling. Might end up basically with a | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
harder cue, which is what the Germans would have liked. Do you | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
accept the analysis that it is terrible for Britain, and it will | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
prolong the recession and deepen in it? I don't, there are no good | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
options in the eurocrisis. What is happening now is not good for | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
Britain. You are facing a continent with internal devaluation, that is | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
an agonising ten years of incredible austerity, that is not | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
good for us. Our main trading partner will be on its knees, not | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
just now, but the next ten years, there must be a quicker and better | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
way out. It is curious that Greece, the smallest economy, holds the | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
fate of all of us in its hands? This is a myth. We began with the | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
myth that the eurocrisis was caused by Greek corruption and laziness, | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
now we have the fate of the eurozone depending on the Greek | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
elections. It doesn't. There was not a single party on May 6th that | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
didn't demand some negotiations, some change in the austerity | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
programme. Including PASOK, the people who brought it in. They | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
asked for a year's extension. They knew snob would vote for them if | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
they said it would continue as before. The fate of the euro | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
depends on the European Commission decides, and the IMF and Angela | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
Merkel. Angela Merkel's ears must be burning in Camp David, she must | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
be under a lot of pressure? She's also under a lot of pressure at | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
home. The debate is definitely in Germany is switching towards more | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
growth. Even from her own Finance Minister. But I think there is | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
something moving something is giving already. You are quite right, | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
it is possible that Greece defaults and still stays in the euro and the | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
whole project goes on. The Fiscal Compact, with all its problems, is | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
the preparation for that to happen. It does actually prolong this | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
mistake of putting economics in front of politics. | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
You need lessons to drive car, why shouldn't you also need lessons to | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
be a parent. That was the gist of David Cameron's thoughts on the | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
Government helping pay for parenting lessons, to help solve, | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
not just problems within families, but in society more generally. | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
Is this almost literally the nanny state. Or a bit of original | :22:27. | :22:35. | |
thinking. Our political editor, Allegra Stratton report. | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
Happy families are supposed to be alike. Every unhappy family is | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
supposed to be unhappy in its own way. But happy or at each other's | :22:44. | :22:53. | |
throats, keeping home fires burning is no cinch. I often find, still | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
find, I have three, and the youngest is not yet two, I still | :22:56. | :23:05. | |
sometimes think I would love a bit more information about how to do | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
things sometimes. This one is for fans of counter | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
factual history, BC Dave, or before the financial crash, David Cameron, | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
is making a comeback, this week we have had family policy, and next | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
week we have NHS policy. The idea is to remind people of the soft | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
soak Prime Minister David Cameron might have been before the crash | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
and the cuts in the NHS, his adviser from earlier days, Steve | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
Hilton, today left for California. The Government is asserting that | :23:35. | :23:43. | |
his ideas didn't go with him. So, the Government has announced | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
�100 parenting voucher, to be picked up from boots, an on-line | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
information service for new parents. Advice by text message and e-mail | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
for those with babies under the age of one month. It is also looking at | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
bigger reforms to bring down the cost of childcare. Freeing up the | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
red tape on who can become a childminder, to allow more to enter | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
the market. And even the possibility it would allow parents | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
tax breaks on childcare. You couldn't have a better example of | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
the difficulties for Government of walking and chewing gum at the same | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
time. They have long wanted to talk less about the deficit strictly in | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
terms of cuts, and more about family issues, as families actually | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
experience them. This week they scheduled a speech on the family, | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
they jettisoned it, for what? A speech on the deficit. Nonetheless, | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
the Prime Minister was only momentarily knocked off his stride. | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
And this morning, before jet to go the G8, he went ahead with the | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
fresh push for families. The plan is not just to return to the early | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
ideas from top opposition, but early Cameron ideas. Back to the | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
period when the leader of the party polled so much better than the rest. | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
My wife and daughter are fast asleep, they may turn up at some | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
stage. Someone said I'm heading for the perfect storm, children and | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
moving house, and leadership of the Conservative Party. | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
Perfect storm or not, it was perfect optics for his political | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
strategists, that era was political gold. But while they may want to | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
recreate those atmospherics, some on his own side are troubled. They | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
believe the ideas floated today show too much money being spent, | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
straying too deeply into our private lives. Parenting is not, | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
they believe, something the state can teach you. There is also a | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
subtle shift. Where as in opposition, David Cameron's | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
emphasis on the fm family was about showing he was a modern man, but a | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Conservative modern man. Now they are downplaying that, it is more an | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
economic an all sits, it is about the cost of living. If they could | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
offer childcare tax breaks to some women in work, that could target | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
swing voters. As Newsnight has said before, the next election will be | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
fought on the cost of living. the cost of everything, energy | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
bills, food, and childcare. That is the reason why childcare has moved | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
centre stage politically, and political parties jockeying for | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
different ways to bring down the cost to make it more flexible and | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
useful for people. Happy political parties are so rare it is difficult | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
to tell if they are alike. But unhappy mid-term parties are | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
definitely unhappy in their own way. In helping families towards some | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
peace of mind, this Government might be hoping a little joy rubs | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
off along the way. Kirstie Allsop is an ambassador for | :26:32. | :26:40. | |
the parenting charity, Home-Start, and we have head of the studies on | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
parents for the University of Kent. Why does David Cameron care so much | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
about this? Everybody cares who has children. Either you believe you | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
can learn to be a better parent, or you think we all sink and swim and | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
do it on ifpb stinct. He thinks you can learn to be a better parent. | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
And the state should pay for that? I think that if we accept that xaps | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
in the first years of your life is so -- what happens in the first | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
years of your life, is so key to the rest of your life, then yes, | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
the state should go involved to some extent in paying for that. | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
you think the state should pay, because it is important for all of | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
us and society? I fundamentally disagree with the thesis, at least | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
Kirsty has brought out into the open that the flip side to parent | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
training is parent blaming. The other side to all of this a very | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
long-term argument which stretches right back to the beginning of new | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
Labour. So it's not as if it was just yesterday that politicians | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
have started saying that parenting is too important and too difficult | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
to be left up to ordinary mums and dads. They have argued this for a | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
very long time, predicated on what I perceive and believe to be an | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
utterly dogmatic view, that what happens in the very early years of | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
life is utterly crucial, and determines the course of, not only | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
the lives of children, but how society generally turns out. Dose | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
doesn't it? I don't think social problems are caused by how long | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
women breast-feed for, how much tele they let their children watch. | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
I don't think children's brains are being shrunken by parents at home, | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
which on the front cover of coalition documents, there are | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
images of shrunken brains. It is a ridiculous thesis. I'm completely | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
with you on breast-feeding and television. That is not the issue. | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
There are a lot of families now who are feeling pretty desperate, they | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
are working longer hours, far more mothers working than before. | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
Parents who are living far closer, far further from their parents than | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
ever before. Society has changed enormously. Making childcare more | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
affordable would be one way of doing it? We used to parent in | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
groups. If somebody wasn't good at it, there was an aunt, a | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
grandmother and a sibling to step in. We didn't do it in the | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
extraordinarily lonely way we now do it. I think the loneliness is | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
created by the fetishisation of parenting. The more you communicate | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
to ordinary mums and dads the idea that essentially ordinary, every | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
day thoughts of ordinary every day people are just not good enough | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
when bringing up kids. And you need to talk to a professional. You have | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
a created a culture where you he is strange parents from mums and dads | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
and neighbours. You are not talking about professionals, they are | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
volunteer mums and dads. Who has trained them. It is a myth that | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
this is some how coming from below, it isn't? We know that you cannot, | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
if you didn't receive good parenting yourself, it is very | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
difficult to be a good parent. The things that you and I accept as | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
totally normal, lots of sleep, lots of routine. You know, good | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
understanding that no is a healthy word. Where do you learn that, did | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
you go to parenting classes? but I would love. It is only for | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
bad parent, not good parents like you? It is very dangerous, and I | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
think she as right, not to talk about bad or good parenting. | :30:07. | :30:14. | |
could have gone and paid for parenting lessons? I can't commit | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
with my work to a night a week. I have a parenting book in my bag. | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
I'm someone interested in being a parent. So there are bad parents | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
aren't there? It depends how you define for it. There are better and | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
worse parents, there always has been. One point I would like to | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
take up. You say this isn't about breast-feeding and how much tele | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
you watch, or for example about whether you shout at your children | :30:39. | :30:46. | |
or you don't. All the my nugsia, all the mundane things about how | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
ordinary mums and dads relate to their children have become | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
politicalIsed. They are not mundane. They are, we shouldn't | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
overcomplicate it, put it back in the box, it is not rocket science | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
to bring up kids. People who didn't have good parenting can't do it. | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
Who are they, who is this mass of the great unwashed useless parents | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
who you think are out there. don't think there is the great | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
unwashed. I'm someone who learns, every day I learn more, I look to | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
learn. So do all of us. People are crying out for these parenting | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
courses, people want to be. It is not very surprising, if you have | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
had now 15 years of relentless communication that parenting is | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
this incredibly complicated thing that you need a degree of child | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
development before being let loose on a kid. No wonder parents have | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
lost confidence. We need a word now on what is coming up on the review | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
show. What have you got? I hope it will be as lively. We | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
will be talking about a film already banned by one dictatorship, | :31:51. | :31:56. |