21/08/2012 Newsnight


21/08/2012

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Tonight the darkness that leads There's nothing new in the idea of

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Baby Blues, but one in five may suffer from postpartum psychosis

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with catastrophic consequences for some. I started getting unpleasant

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the stairs. I was just so my boy. In Newsnight exclusive,

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we'll see how the problems can be three days. We'll ask what more can

:01:01.:01:11.
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thought British men had peculiar pregnancy. If it is legitimate rape,

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they can shut that down. We'll see how the views can be used

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by the Democrats. Rape is rape. borrowing going up, big economic

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minds have advice for the Prime you lose touch with reality,

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case it is can lead to a mother recognise the symptoms, but women

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who have suffered from it, are trying to change this. Newsnight

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have been given access to the lives shortly after coming birth. The

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I was just so frightened, I didn't want to hurt my boy. I knew

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somebody had to help me. Women are more at risk of severe

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mental illness after giving birth than any time in their lives. One

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day I thought about doing it, about smothering the boys while they had

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their lunch time sleep. This woman did kill her baby and then herself.

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What I saw that night, my beautiful wife and daughter, even now, I

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can't come prehend that. We've been extraordinary access to the lives

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of three women, who all became ill, Shelley Blanchard's baby is due in

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the next few weeks, and she's come into her final checkup. But it is

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not the baby that medical staff are It is her. One in ten new mothers

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suffer from post-natal depression, but shelly is at risk something

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Postpartum psychosis. Mental health problems of varying degrees will

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affect one in four of us at some pointed in our lives. But women

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given birth are susceptible to the most serious illness. I'm scared,

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emotional now. I'm scared I'm going to harm the baby, or, I've read

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some things that ,, sorry, I've read some things that women think

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the baby is talking to them and telling them to do things and that

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the baby will get taken away from me, that's my biggest fear. It is

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not known what causes postpartum psychosis, but the massive more

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mopbl changes that follow child birth are thought to play a

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significant role. How are you well, since the last time I saw you?

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Mood-wise, I'm agitated, sleep pattern is terrible. One in 500

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women who have given birth will suffer from postpartum psychosis.

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And it can strike out of the blue. The majority of women who have a

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post postpartum psychosis or very, very severe depression illness,

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will have no risk factors, they have no family history or past

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illness, there is a proportion of women who you can predict. Shelley

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Blanchard has buy polar disorder and means she's a one in two chance

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of becoming severely ill after having her baby. Everyone looking

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after her, knows they need to be alert. Dr Nick Best is a

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psychiatrist. Who specialises in caring for pregnant women and new

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mothers with mental health problems. OK, a long time no see, since I saw

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you. He will be seeing Shelley Blanchard regularly over the few

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months and she gets home visits from the community psychiatric

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nurse. When the mood change happens, if it is, it can be rapid, so

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that's where the eyes and ears of the midwife and health visitor is

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helpful. If we got a call from anybody who expressed concern, we'd

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come out immediately. Cool. It is the speed with which

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the condition develops, together with the severity which makes it

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dangerous. A person can move from being relatively ameanable and

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understanding of a situation, to floridly unwell, psychotic,

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delusional and paranoid, in the Daksha Emson knows how serious,

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postpartum psychosis can be. I know about 5.30 or so, and, as I got to

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the front door, I smelt a burning smell, normally I'd call out, honey

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I'm home and she replied that she's here, and "oh Dave, ""and I'd hear

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the baby babbleling away. It was Wait until you have another one. Oh.

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When Dave's daughter, fraya was three months old his wife stabbed

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her and then set both herself and baby on fire in their bedroom.

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Daksha Emson died from her burns three weeks later. She'd left a

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note. "Dave I'm absolutely convinced now of bad forces being

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at work here. Our baby has to be protected from these forces... And

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I'm going to protect her. I love her, she means everything to me.

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And I'll do whatever I can to protect her from evil" It is only

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now, 12 years since Daksha Emson's death that Dave can sort ourt her

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text books, she studied psychiatry, and she was about to be a

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consultant when she died. But few people knew about her condition.

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She was afraid of the stigma. The inquiry into her death led to new

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guidelines in the NHS, for the treatment of staff with mental

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illness. Dave's writing a book about her story to help other

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people in similar situations. Primarily, it is to speak to me,

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speak to brothers and sisters, people that are suffering, fellow

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mental health workers, people that are suffering with mental health

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conditions, that you are not alone Shelley Blanchard is about to give

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birth. Shelley's husband is in the Army, but he is able to come home

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for a few weeks, and he is worried about what will happen to her after

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the birth. It is not Baby Blues, is it, it is quite sieve, worst case

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scenario, I could end up without a wife and child. So yeah, it is

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worrying, but the fact that we're already, the knowledge that we have

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enables us to understand or look for any signs of it. And with her

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network of medical carers, it is unbelieveable the amount of people

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she's got caring for her. Shelley's labour has gone on for two days,

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Hello little man. Her teenager son That very first evening she starts

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her anti-psychotic drugs. How are you coping emotionally? Doing

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really well. I'm happy to have olive. He's just so gorgeous.

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Oliver is a week old, Shelley is relaxed and happy with the support

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she's getting. But Lee is going back to Northern Ireland soon.

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boy. Hello, Best it is Shelley Blanchard here, I'm aware you're on

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leave, but I wondered if you could give me a call because I'm feeling

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unwell at the moment, thank you. Shelley's mood has begun to drop.

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She's stopped taking the drugs because they make her drowsy, she

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knows she needs help. That would be enough to get rid of an elephant.

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It is scary. Especially feeling the way I'm feeling A few weeks later,

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she's admitted to a special unit in Winchester, where mothers and their

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babies can be kept safe during treatment. I started getting

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unpleas isn't thoughts about Oliver. About wanting to hurt him. Dropping

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him on purpose, and throwing him down the stairs. I was just so

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frightened, I didn't want to hurt my boy. And I knew somebody had to

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help me. But the thoughts were getting stronger and more frequent.

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So, I had to tell somebody. I had to get some help. OK I have your

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methods here. Will I put them in your hand.

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Sometimes I feel lost being in here. I feel lonely sometimes. But Lee

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comes in to see me every day, that's nice. It is nice to have a

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visitor. Because it breaks up the day a little bit. Otherwise they

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could be long and drawn out With postpartum psychosis still poorly

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understood, and frequently misdiagnosed, psychiatristness

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mental health workers are here to listen to to a woman who has been

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through it herself. I became psychotic a few days leaving

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hospital, when late one night, having just fed Finlay, who was

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still very much in the cast iron grip of feeding routine, I faced

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his sleeping body down on the bed and my brain snapped. It felt like

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somebody had flicked a switch in my head. I looked at him and was

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filled with an urge to kill him. I put my hand around his tiny neck,

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not strong enough to hold his own head and began to squeeze. I wasn't

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trying to harm him, I knew I musdont that, but I want to know

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whether I was capable, and whether it is true or not, I convinced

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myself I was. Jo, head of maths, became ill after her senged son was

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born. She'd never suffered mental health problems before and I was

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terrified her children would be taken away.

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She decided her only way out was to commit suicide, and take Tom and

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Finn with her. One day I thought about doing it about smothering the

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boys while they had their lunch time sleep. I was met particular

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lus in my thinking, I had to make sure the boys and dog were dead

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before my own life, because I couldn't survive if they didn't.

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is fully recovered now. But she's spent more than six months in a

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secure psychiatric hospital while her husband cared for the boys. Jo

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feels compelled to raise awareness of the condition, particularly with

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health workers. Women are dying sixly because they had a baby,

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which, shouldn't be happening. And, I feel, very strongly that because

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I came so close to losing my life, that, I am in a position to be able

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to talk about the extremes of the illness. And a lot of sufferers,

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Oliver is now five months old and both he and Shelly are doing well.

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If it wasn't able to go in the unit I think that I probably would have

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ended up taking an overdose. Possibly killing myself. Because I

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It is such a dark time. But out of that dark time I've managed to

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learn a little bit more about missile and I think to come out of

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it, and - myself and I think to come out of it and feel so happy,

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I'm actually feeling really well now, I feel I could possibly say I

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feel fantastic. Well I'm joipd by Jo Lyall who you saw in the report

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and Dr Nisha Shah a consultant psychiatrist, who runs a service in

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north London. Thanks very much for talking about this publicly.

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What do you think mothers and health care professionals most need

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to know about this? I think they need to know it exists. Because

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there is so little awareness amongst mothers, well amongst the

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general public and health professionals. And I think it was

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very clear the lady who had bipolar, Shelley, they have a team looking

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out for her. And that doesn't happen for other women. If they

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haven't an existing mental health problem. Lots and lots of people

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around me realised something was wrong and said, would say to me or

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my husband, something is with Jo, my mum said it seems somebody else

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in inside her body but none of us thought I was ill. Presumably you

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were told by health care professionals, about physical

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things that could go wrong about child birth but not mental side?

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woman is more likely to have a mental health problem, than any

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physical health problem. It is the biggest health problem that women

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in the perinatal period are likely to suffer.

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Dr Nisha Shah, the there remains a stigma with all mental health

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problems, particularly with child birth and children, you're supposed

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to be happy, and if you're not it is perhaps more of a stigma? That's

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right, exactly what Jo is saying, to raise awareness is impeded by

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people's fear what will happen when they present with a problem, that

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is out of the range of what is considered to be normal. There's a

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real anxiety, that we hear about things like baby P, we know about

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what happens when children are mistreated and all mothers worry

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about not treating their children properly and being separated by

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them and that prevents people coming forward. What do you do with

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health care professionals, saying you have to be aware of it and

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sensitive to it and you're there to help, not to intervene, and protect

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the child, but help the mother? think, perinatal health services,

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that have slowly started growing, since, really the tragic death of

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Dr Emson in 2000, bring it in their remit. That's what we do, making

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sure maternity department, at the Whittington, we spend training

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midwives and obstetricians, making sure everybody knows that mental

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health problems are very common, that they are very, very treatable,

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and that there are services, in some place, that exist to try and

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help people deal with them. Did you feel the stig marks and

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feel you should lied it? How did it creep up on you, how did you become

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aware you had to start talking about it? Well, first I hid it for

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months, because having a baby is supposed to be a joyful time. I

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started to have delusions I was evil and not supposed to be a

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mother, how do you tell anybody that, when you believe it so

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completely that, well, I actually believefy told anybody, the boys

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would be adopted and I would be put into prison, even though I did

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nothing wrong. And I just had a moment of clarity, one day, and

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realised I needed help. This was some months after I'd become ill.

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What Dr Nisha Shah was saying, was it difficult to ask for help, not

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because of the stigma, but because the boys might be taken away?

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was, I had no idea how ill I was. I lost all sense of reality, I went

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to the GP, and said I made plans to kill myself, the dog and myself, I

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think I may be ill. That was Monday, by Friday, I was a patient on a

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psychiatric unit, without my babies. But, it is treatable, that's the

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whole point? It is, it is not always straightforward. Because

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we're all individuals, and different treatments work better

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with different women. And it didn't help I went months before I had any

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treatment at all. That definitely complicated things a lot. But,

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there are psychological interventions, medication, and I

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was treated eventually with ECT, and that was what cured me, and

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cured my psychosis. But, there will problems with each. Obviously ECT

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is controversial and there are problems associated with it, but

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when it works it is successful. Medication, has all sorts of side

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effects. You could see from the film, that one of them is

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unprecedented weight gain. And in six months in hospital, I put on

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five stone. It is extraordinary. And psychological intervention

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sometimes aren't enough, you need some sort of chemical intervention

:22:41.:22:46.

as well. There's problems with each, but using a combination of them all,

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it's possible to have a full recovery. We said earlier in the

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report, that it is treatable, and it is also, sometimes, you can

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predict it. But sometimes presumably you can't, and it creeps

:22:58.:23:08.
:23:08.:23:08.

up on people? Yes. Postpartum psychosis is a subtype really. It

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is found it emxass many things and there's a blurring between Baby

:23:13.:23:22.

Blues, which is not an illness it is something dirve. It is common?

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50-60% first time mothers will experience that, but that's not

:23:26.:23:30.

what we're concerned about, there's awareness and knowledge, to be able

:23:30.:23:33.

to differentiate babey blues from post-natal depression, post-natal

:23:33.:23:35.

depression from postpartum psychosis which is a different

:23:35.:23:38.

illness, and therefore, does require a different set of

:23:38.:23:42.

treatments. OK, but thank you very much and

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we'll hear a lot about that. Now, if you want details of

:23:46.:23:52.

organisations, which offer advice and support on postpartum psychosis

:23:52.:24:02.
:24:02.:24:15.

Now, if the coalition Government stands for one thing it is to

:24:15.:24:19.

improve the economy. A central plank of that is to reduce

:24:19.:24:22.

borrowing, as Opposition leader, David Cameron coin cyst tantly

:24:22.:24:26.

argued you do not borrow your way out of a debt crisis. While one

:24:26.:24:30.

month's borrowing figures are �600 million deficit for July may not

:24:30.:24:34.

demonstrate that everything has gone hay wire, politically it is

:24:34.:24:38.

bad news for the Government and in particular, George Osborne.

:24:38.:24:41.

Newsnight heard rumblings that spending cuts had been considered

:24:41.:24:45.

for the Autumn. We explore the Chancellor's options in a moment.

:24:46.:24:51.

First, David Grossman with the extent of the problem. Very

:24:51.:24:55.

carefully the Chancellor plotted a route out of deficit. Unfortunately,

:24:56.:25:01.

the journey time has already had to be revised up once and now he is in

:25:01.:25:06.

danger of having to do it again. The latest figures show the

:25:06.:25:11.

Government borrowed �600 million last month. That is up 3.4 billion

:25:11.:25:17.

on the same month last year, then there was a surplus of 4.2 billion.

:25:17.:25:21.

Normally, in fact all but two of the 50 years, July has been a

:25:22.:25:27.

banker of the month for the Treasury, and they can expect for

:25:27.:25:30.

surplus because of income and corporate tax receipts. In July

:25:30.:25:35.

this didn't happen. Corporate tax receipts so far has been going

:25:35.:25:42.

slowly, relative to what the RBR is expecting in March. Today we see

:25:42.:25:45.

the fecked of four large installments T reflects the

:25:46.:25:49.

profitable of company, and the July receipts reflect the first payment

:25:49.:25:54.

of profits on 2012, which suggests companies are less profitable this

:25:54.:25:59.

year than was expected. Another factor was the closure of the he

:25:59.:26:02.

will begin gas field, leading to lower than expected revenues from

:26:02.:26:09.

the North Sea. Well they shoal that there are plane challenges for the

:26:09.:26:12.

UK economy. They are difficult figures, but they show how

:26:12.:26:15.

important it is to stick to the plan, to deal responsibly with

:26:15.:26:19.

Britain's debts and not to add more to that. So, if you look at into

:26:19.:26:24.

the figures what you see, driving them, I think, is a decrease in tax

:26:24.:26:27.

receipt, mainly corporation tax, with an interesting factor in the

:26:27.:26:31.

North Sea. As I say, what the figures really show is the

:26:31.:26:35.

importance of sticking to the plan this Government has set out.

:26:35.:26:39.

Treasury has a feeling of great solidity about it, but, when it

:26:39.:26:43.

comes to the numbers upon which it bases Government policy, well, a

:26:43.:26:48.

little more spongey. It is a noteable feature of this recession

:26:48.:26:52.

that almost every set of Government projections, with time, begins to

:26:53.:27:01.

look like the work of a wild-eyed optimist. For example, back in June,

:27:01.:27:04.

2010, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast for the

:27:04.:27:07.

current year, we'd been borrowing �89 billion. That was revised in

:27:07.:27:13.

March, 2011, to �101 billion and March 2012, the forecast had gone

:27:13.:27:19.

up again, to �120 billion. And that could still be optimism, because

:27:19.:27:24.

the first three months of this year, we're �10 billion behind where we

:27:25.:27:29.

should be. Suggesting to some, that we could be looking at a total

:27:29.:27:36.

deficit of a year, of �1670 billion. Or about 80% higher than the 2010

:27:36.:27:40.

initial forecast. Well these are serious figures, and

:27:40.:27:44.

they suggest that the central goal of George Osborne to reduce the

:27:44.:27:48.

deficit, has not just not happened, but going the wrong way, he's

:27:48.:27:53.

adding to the deficit, these borrowing figures are going higher,

:27:53.:27:58.

and it is because he's driven us back in recession, and we have such

:27:58.:28:00.

expensive costs of welfare benefits and keeping people on the dole

:28:00.:28:04.

rather than seeing them in work and paying back into the xeck ker. It

:28:04.:28:07.

is a failure of George Osborne's planning and he needs to change

:28:07.:28:13.

course right now. So, what happens now? In Thais economic times, the

:28:13.:28:17.

political rumour mill is in overdrive. A little while back it

:28:17.:28:21.

was George Osborne's going to lose his job. Now, Newsnight hearse

:28:21.:28:26.

rumblings that the Treasury has ordered new Government cuts, every

:28:26.:28:30.

department to do their share for an emergency budget statement in the

:28:30.:28:35.

Autumn. That may turn out to be nonsense, but what is true, is that

:28:35.:28:40.

the politics of this get harder and harder for the Government. Some

:28:40.:28:44.

Conservatives for example, point out that the Chancellor hasn't even

:28:44.:28:49.

started down the road of cutting Increased.

:28:49.:28:53.

There have been individual areas where there have been difficult and

:28:53.:28:57.

painful cuts. But overall, there's been a big expansion of public

:28:57.:29:01.

spending in cash terms and increase ever are I year in real terms. We

:29:01.:29:04.

have to accept for a bit we can't have increaseness spending and we

:29:04.:29:08.

have to try and keep it under better control and renew our attack

:29:08.:29:12.

upon the costs of Government itself, because that would be the most

:29:12.:29:16.

popular way of doing it. Government is deliberately pursuing policies

:29:16.:29:21.

raising energy costs for example, it is watered down the proposals

:29:21.:29:26.

forever planning liberal sedation, it is not moving rapidly as far as

:29:26.:29:31.

Labour market is concerned, it imposed a lot of New Labour market

:29:31.:29:35.

regulation upon employers, and yes it does need to take a closer look

:29:35.:29:41.

at the policies and reverse them. So, how much longer will the jourpy

:29:41.:29:46.

time wack to budget surplus be? And crucially is the Chancellor going

:29:46.:29:52.

to have to step on the accelerator. David Grossman, well no-one from

:29:52.:29:56.

the Treasury team was available to come on the programme tonight. We

:29:56.:30:05.

did ask. We could have a couple of fine economic minds with us. Port

:30:05.:30:15.
:30:15.:30:21.

port port and - portsport ports, is worrying, 26% ahead of where we

:30:21.:30:27.

thought we'd be. It is back in deficit in 2009. It could be a

:30:28.:30:34.

blip? It is a big blip though. Actually a lot of damage being done.

:30:34.:30:39.

All kinds of things are not working out as hoped. Basically the

:30:39.:30:43.

Chancellor started off as Government betting on growth, and

:30:43.:30:48.

no actual cuts to get rid of the deficit. The growth was never

:30:48.:30:53.

likely to happen, hasn't happened, and so we just stacking up more and

:30:53.:30:57.

more debt. The issue which nobody is very comfortable about is how

:30:57.:31:02.

long can we stack that debt up. What do you make of the figures

:31:02.:31:05.

think as the Treasury secretary said, they're volatile from month

:31:05.:31:10.

to month. The underlying picture is this is what you would expect when

:31:10.:31:14.

the economy is flat. We have had essentially no growth for the last

:31:14.:31:19.

18 months. Where I would differ with John, is this that is at least,

:31:19.:31:24.

in part a direct result of over rapid fiscal consolidation,

:31:24.:31:28.

unnecessary cuts to the deficit too quickly, have actually in one of

:31:28.:31:31.

the reasons why we have no growth, and that in turn, meant the deficit

:31:31.:31:37.

hasn't come down as quickly as the Chancellor hoped. Let's look at

:31:37.:31:40.

simplistic terms, the two possibilities is one is, is there

:31:40.:31:43.

scope, because borrowing costs are low, to borrow more and have a big

:31:43.:31:46.

stimulus, do you think that would work? That's clearly possible.

:31:46.:31:52.

Remember, that. Advisable? Both, one thing we do know is when we

:31:52.:31:56.

listen to what onsays, and what the Treasury Minister say, is that two

:31:56.:32:00.

years ago, they said if we went on borrowing as we were, interest

:32:01.:32:04.

rates would soar, the credit agencies would down grade us, we

:32:04.:32:10.

would have to call in IMF, what happened? We're now borrowing, more,

:32:10.:32:15.

than was forecast before the Chancellor introduced figurecal

:32:15.:32:18.

consolidation programme. Not less but more. What happened? Well,

:32:18.:32:22.

interest rates, compared to where they are two years, are

:32:22.:32:25.

considerably lower than they were divo years ago. We can afford to

:32:25.:32:32.

borrow more, and we should. I don't disagree with you. The reality is

:32:32.:32:37.

we don't know, when foreign investors, in gilts will panic. We

:32:37.:32:40.

don't know when interest rates go out of control. We've tested all

:32:40.:32:46.

kinds of things in the economy, with masses of quantity Tateive

:32:46.:32:50.

easing, very lose credit, nobody knows where that ends, accept it

:32:50.:32:54.

must end in higher interest rates, and it must end in inflation. Maybe

:32:54.:32:59.

years away, and you may be right in a year or two, you can get away

:32:59.:33:03.

with spending and trying to stimulate the way out of it. If you

:33:03.:33:08.

do that, remember what you're doing is immoral. You are living better

:33:08.:33:13.

today at the expense of the people who follow us. So it may give rise

:33:13.:33:18.

to less pain in the short-term. What it does is not good for the

:33:18.:33:22.

next generation. I think, quite wrong actually. Borrowing now is

:33:22.:33:26.

not borrowing from our children. We borrow from ourselves, debt is

:33:26.:33:30.

finance now, you can't borrow from your unborn children. What we would

:33:30.:33:34.

do now by borrowing is enable us to invest in things, and be good for

:33:35.:33:38.

your children, getting jobs for young people, building roads and

:33:38.:33:42.

bridges and schools. Great if the money is used for, but it is not

:33:42.:33:46.

always used for such useful things. Absolutely you're borrowing from

:33:46.:33:52.

your kids, you have no intention repaying the principle and interest,

:33:52.:33:56.

they will. Onwhat is the alternative Basically, carrying on

:33:56.:34:02.

as we are, isn't going to cut it. The mudling through, isn't going to

:34:02.:34:05.

achieve what the Conservatives need to do by the next election, get

:34:05.:34:09.

signs of growth in the economy, and they're going to either lurch in

:34:09.:34:14.

one of two directions - either to go for more stimulus, that side of

:34:14.:34:19.

the table. Or this side, the other way the Vicky Redwood approach,

:34:19.:34:25.

which is to actually cut, expenditure, to actually take more

:34:25.:34:30.

pain short-term, in return for getting a better economy, medium to

:34:30.:34:35.

long-term. It is done places on earth, successfully, even on the UK,

:34:35.:34:41.

on previous cycles. The state is too large, the state, the size it

:34:41.:34:45.

is, means we have low growth baked in. If the Chancellor were to

:34:45.:34:49.

decide to go down the route T would take a degree of political courage?

:34:49.:34:56.

A lot of courage. He is according to an ITV poll tonight, 16%

:34:56.:35:00.

effectively saying he is he's doing OK. It is difficult when you are in

:35:00.:35:04.

the bigger political hole to take those strong economic decisions and

:35:04.:35:10.

I know you are disagree. Maybe take the view, it can't get much worse,

:35:11.:35:16.

he might as well take a go. Previous recessionss, I was working

:35:16.:35:22.

for a Conservative Chancellor in the Treasury, in 1992, and Norman

:35:22.:35:26.

Lamont took the right decision, he said we need to make savings and

:35:27.:35:31.

cut spending, and raise taxes to get the Budget back to BA but we're

:35:31.:35:37.

not going to do it now, until the economy starts recovering. The

:35:37.:35:44.

fiscal tighting then didn't begin until 1994, until it was on an

:35:44.:35:48.

upward trajectory. Basic economics of the same period, during the 90s,

:35:48.:35:54.

we took 7% out of the size of the state and the state grew at 3% for

:35:54.:36:00.

ten years, boy would that be an outcome now. Now the Republican

:36:00.:36:04.

presidential candidate, Mitt Romney called on one of his own Senate

:36:04.:36:09.

candidate to pull out of the race in a row over race. Todd Akin say

:36:09.:36:13.

the women who are victims "legitimate rape" could not get

:36:13.:36:20.

pregnant. What takes Congressman, Todd Akin away from challenged from

:36:20.:36:24.

basic biology, is the Democratic party seized on the comments and

:36:24.:36:29.

used them to attack Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan on attitude to abortion.

:36:29.:36:34.

Congressman, Akin's latest ad campaign is called "forgiveness.

:36:34.:36:39.

I'm Todd Akin and I afrof this message. Rape is an evil act, I use

:36:39.:36:45.

the wrong words in the wrong way and I apologise. Todd Akin may be

:36:45.:36:52.

contrite but he is not stepping down as candidate from mass youry,

:36:52.:36:55.

despite pressure from fellow Republicans, so Democrats are

:36:55.:37:01.

piling in. Views expressed were offensive, rape is rape, and the

:37:01.:37:08.

idea that we should be persing and qualifying, and slicing what types

:37:08.:37:13.

of rape we're talking about, doesn't make sense to the American

:37:13.:37:17.

people. And certainly doesn't make sense to me. Since the 196 0s,

:37:17.:37:22.

abortion has been one of the litmus test issues in America's culture

:37:22.:37:27.

wars. Congressman, Akin is so- called pro-life. He was asked if he

:37:27.:37:30.

opposes abortions, even in cases where the woman gets pregnant

:37:30.:37:34.

through rape This is what he said. First of all, what I understand

:37:34.:37:38.

from doctors, that's really rare, if it is a legitimate rape the

:37:38.:37:42.

female body has ways to shut that whole thing down. President Obama

:37:42.:37:46.

who holds a significant lead of Mitt Romney over women voters,

:37:47.:37:49.

seized the opportunity to draw attention to the wider Republicans

:37:49.:37:54.

positions on social issues. Romney's advice presidential

:37:54.:37:58.

running mate, Paul Ryan is flatly against legal abortion. Even for

:37:58.:38:05.

rape or incest. Accept where the woman's life is at stake.

:38:05.:38:09.

Congressman Ryan worked with Todd Akin in Washington to narrow the

:38:09.:38:14.

definition of rape, so the state would pay for fewer abortions. Mitt

:38:14.:38:18.

Romney condemned Akin's comments and says, he does support legal

:38:18.:38:22.

abortion for women who have been raped. I can't defend what he said.

:38:22.:38:28.

I can't defend him. One reason support for Romney has been tepid

:38:28.:38:33.

amongst Conservatives, is his pro- choice past. And he is seen by

:38:33.:38:35.

critics as Governor Flip-Flop. believe abortion should be safe and

:38:35.:38:40.

legal in this country, I have since the time that my mum took that

:38:40.:38:46.

position when she ran in 1907s as a Senate candidate. I since since

:38:46.:38:51.

this has been law for 20 years, I sustain and support t I sustain and

:38:51.:38:55.

support that, of a right of a woman to make that choice. In 2012,

:38:56.:39:00.

Romney says his thinking has evolved, and as a Pro-Life

:39:00.:39:09.

President he would nominate Supreme Court justices who overturn Roe

:39:09.:39:13.

versus Wade. If polls indicate majority of Americans support legal

:39:13.:39:17.

aborgs, including the independent and moderate Republican voters, is

:39:17.:39:22.

it really an issue that can help win or lose a presidential

:39:22.:39:27.

election? Joining me now from Washington is, Craig Ferguson

:39:28.:39:34.

director of Republican majority for choice, and Lila Rose founder of

:39:34.:39:41.

life action. What do you think should happen to Todd Akin? I think

:39:41.:39:46.

he should step down, that the number pro-choice and anti-choice

:39:46.:39:49.

Republicans in are leadership and party have called for him to step

:39:49.:39:54.

down, and I think it is time for him to take that lead. What do you

:39:54.:40:01.

make of him, step down, and get out of it, because he is peopleersing?

:40:01.:40:05.

Representative Akin apologiseds the comments that were clearly using

:40:05.:40:10.

poor words, choice words were poor. What he was saying, and that's the

:40:10.:40:14.

fact if it is conceived in rape, does not warrant the death penalty

:40:14.:40:19.

of a abortion, and should not be killed because of the crimes of the

:40:19.:40:24.

father, rape is a horrible thing, victims should be fought for and

:40:24.:40:28.

protected but rapists should be held accountable of the law and not

:40:28.:40:32.

the child. That's the position that Todd Akin was taking. It is

:40:32.:40:37.

completely oppose today what his opponents, Claire McCaskill stands

:40:37.:40:41.

for, which is funding of the biggest abortion chain and she

:40:41.:40:49.

voted against a law that would stop, sexual predators were taking minors

:40:49.:40:54.

across state lines which would hurt little girls of statutory rape.

:40:54.:40:59.

some of that, would chime very much with what Paul Ryan has been saying,

:40:59.:41:02.

the vice presidential hopeful for your party, no abortion, even if

:41:02.:41:07.

the case of rape or incest, what do you think of that? We completely

:41:07.:41:12.

oppose that position, the majority of Americans and Republicans oppose

:41:12.:41:17.

that position, even the Romney/ Ryan ticket has come out to say, to

:41:17.:41:22.

say there should be exceptions in the case of rape and incest. The

:41:22.:41:27.

problem is he apologised for the words he used not the policy he is

:41:27.:41:31.

pushing. It is a policy not supported by majority of

:41:31.:41:36.

Republicans and Americans and it is akin to saying, that there's, we

:41:36.:41:41.

need to punish the victim, the perpetrator of the crime and take

:41:41.:41:47.

care of the baby, but the woman in the middle which has the crime upon

:41:47.:41:52.

her is a vessel. It is a crime committed against a woman, it is a

:41:52.:41:58.

violent and sexual crime, she needs medical resource available to her.

:41:58.:42:03.

It should not be inputing our position and opinion in controlling

:42:03.:42:09.

that position. I Can't agree more, but having investigated the biggest

:42:09.:42:14.

abortion pyramid and cover up with little girls with secret abortions,

:42:14.:42:22.

across the board.... I know that's an important issue in the United

:42:22.:42:26.

States, but the important issue for the people in the world is what

:42:26.:42:31.

impact if any this will have on the presidential race. I'm wondering

:42:31.:42:36.

whether you feel, in Mitt Romney given his previous record, actually

:42:36.:42:40.

he doesn't care very much about the issue but he has Paul Ryan on the

:42:40.:42:45.

ticket, because people like you will be energiseed, so Mitt Romney

:42:45.:42:49.

is Governor Flip-Flop? We need to get past the sound bites and look

:42:49.:42:53.

at the issue, we are talking about the fundamental right to life,

:42:53.:42:57.

which is the right to life for all people. If we can't protect that,

:42:57.:43:00.

and don't have politicians protecting that, if our President

:43:00.:43:07.

Obama is the most historic. think Mitt Romney is the man to

:43:07.:43:11.

protect it? We need him to be President, because he will apoint

:43:11.:43:21.
:43:21.:43:21.

for life judges and stop funding the biggest abortion chain. Do you

:43:21.:43:25.

think there are people within the Republican Party, who run for

:43:25.:43:29.

office, but don't like to say they're pro-choice because it will

:43:29.:43:33.

run them into problems. Frankly, some politicians, are lying on the

:43:33.:43:37.

issue? Our party has created a system that makes it very difficult

:43:37.:43:43.

for Republicans to get through a primary system who are pro-choice.

:43:43.:43:46.

Our system is prochoice organisation is not the party

:43:46.:43:50.

should be pro-choice entirely and promote a platform because that

:43:50.:43:56.

doesn't represent the make-up of a party or party calling for a

:43:56.:44:00.

constitutional ban on abortions with no exceptions. We should not

:44:00.:44:05.

put this front and centre, as they did today, promoting this as one of

:44:05.:44:10.

the top priorities of our country, and applauding we're pushing a

:44:10.:44:16.

human life amendment with no exceptions. I wanted to know if it

:44:16.:44:20.

put off people who are fiscal Conservatives for voting the

:44:20.:44:23.

Republican Party because of the issue, does it put people off?

:44:23.:44:27.

Tifplt detracts from a the strongest message we as rep

:44:27.:44:32.

Republicans have which is the fiscal issue. We need to stand for

:44:32.:44:37.

human rights, that's the life to right, Americans are listening,

:44:37.:44:40.

young people are listening and women, we care about the right to

:44:40.:44:43.

life and protecting women, protecting young girls who are

:44:44.:44:48.

victims of rape and unborn children who deserve to be protected as well.

:44:48.:44:53.

And deserve their fundamental right to life to be protected that's why

:44:53.:44:58.

we're standing for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. Planed parenthood denies

:44:58.:45:08.
:45:08.:45:16.

some alkpwaigss that was made Prince Harry on front of The

:45:16.:45:25.

Telegraph. Do it now and do it now, tells Osborne chefs. FT has the big

:45:25.:45:33.

business story about glon core bot wot and finally the Daily Mail has

:45:33.:45:43.
:45:43.:45:50.

wot and finally the Daily Mail has Well that's all from Newsnight for

:45:50.:46:00.
:46:00.:46:28.

tonight. Kirsty has much more Hello. I've got showers in the

:46:28.:46:33.

forecast again for tomorrow but probably not as heavy or wrieed

:46:33.:46:36.

spread and there will be sunshine in diveen. Southern and eastern

:46:36.:46:40.

part could stay largely cry. Heavy showers for England and Northern

:46:40.:46:44.

Ireland and one or two sharp ones across the Midlands in the aifpb as

:46:45.:46:49.

well. You will notice a breeze, change from recent days, but

:46:49.:46:53.

temperatures not too bad. 21 degrees, that's a good average,

:46:53.:46:58.

high teens for the west, but good weather on the beaches for the

:46:58.:47:02.

south-west of England and South Wales too.

:47:02.:47:06.

Sharp showers of possibility across North Wales. And Northern Ireland

:47:06.:47:10.

too, but the change from today, showers will be moving smartly, so

:47:10.:47:14.

you get sunshine, shower, and then it will move off. Showers for

:47:14.:47:16.

western Scotland, many eastern parts of Scotland, could escape

:47:16.:47:20.

them through the afternoon, and see sunshine, but a brisk breeze

:47:20.:47:25.

blowing in here as well. Sunny intervals and showers, not many of

:47:25.:47:30.

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