29/08/2012 Newsnight

A spectacular Opening Ceremony kicks off the biggest Paralympic

Games ever. But will there be any benefit to people living with a

disability in the United Kingdom. What is it that breathes higher

into the equation, and makes a universe for them to describe.

the next 11 days, more than 4,000 athletes from all over the world

will give of their best. Stephen hawking sets them on their way.

There is contrasting views about what the games will achieve.

won't change the world, but it will have a positive impact. It will be

about exceptional, inspiring individuals, I think it will set up

this divide between the good and bad cripple. Amidst the excitement,

protests off stage about the Government's major reform of

disability allowances, estimated to save billions from the Welfare Bill.

We will hear from the Minister for Disabled People, and a specially

convened panel. Nick Clegg's unilateral declaration of intent on

an emergency wealth tax is dismissed by the Chancellor. Is

this any way to run a Government. Let the games begin once more. The

Paralympics were founded in Britain in the aftermath of World War ll.

Now this year's London games are being billed as the second-largest

international sporting event in the world after the Olympics. Can the

13th Paralympics bear the weight of expectation heeped on it, of not

just being a festival of sport, but a game-changer for the way disabled

people are treated every single day. Our disability specialist reports.

People look for an understanding of the world, why it exists at all.

And why it is as it is. Opening ceremonies are designed to

set the stone for the whole event. And the message here is clear,

disabled people can excel, and in much more than just sport. But can

this parade of glamour have any effect on another side of

disability in Britain today. Proposed benefit cuts, increasing

reports of verbal and physical abuse, and a growing sense by many

disabled people of being undervalued and misunderstood.

Over the next few days, this stadium will be packed with people

watching the finest disabled athletes in the world. Their

exploits on the track, on the wheelchair basketball court, will

often seem mind-boggling, far exceeding the abilities of those

watching. The word "inspirational" will hang heavy in the air. For

those working to improve the situation of disabled people, this

has the potential to be a watershed moment. The opportunity is not lost

on campaigning organisations, like Scope. I'm still relatively

optimistic about what the Paralympics can do. And about the

visibility it will bring. I think there is also a point to be made

about the people who are commentating, who are disabled

sports people, who understand the amount of training and preparation

and so on, that has gone into producing a Paralympic athlete.

spanking new wheelchairs, worth many thousands of pounds, and

prosthetic limbs made to order, are a far cry from the lives of

thousands of ordinary disabled people. Work by Scope has

established, that for many disabled people, life now is tough and

getting tougher. What the general public sees is the stories about us

being scroungers and benefit cheats, and being fit for work, when we say

we're not, and taking Disability Living Allowance, when actually we

are perfectly capable of playing golf, or whatever it happens to be.

It is those kinds of things that the general public sees, they don't

see the cuts, the genuine distress, the problems that disabled people

are experiencing. This sport is not one of the more glamorous

Paralympic events, Bottia, a form of bowls, was invented to provide

competition for people with more severe disabilities. It has taken

Nigel Murray all over the world, and brought him gold medals in

Sydney baijifpblgt he acknowledges that previous games may not have

done much more disabled people here, having them in London is the key

factor. I think this time it is going to be different, because

really, in previous years gone by, the Paralympics have just come and

gone. And once the media attention is gone away, I think, that's it

for people. But I think the fact that we are the host, it is going

to be taking place in London, there is going to be unprecedented

amounts of coverage. Liz Carr doesn't give a jot about sport.

would be free, no we'd be compelled to cure it. Drama is her thing, and

here she's rehearsing a play which explores how easily disabled people

can be classified and institutionalised. She respects the

right of other disabled people to play sport, but believes, what she

calls the super-crip, is just one more disability stereotype. Hate

crime against disabled people is at an all-time high, and disabled

people are seen as scroungers and a drain on the state. We have

paralympians who are amazing and then the rest of us, I wonder that

things like the Paralympics will set up a divide between two groups

of disabled people. Inspirational porn is the latest phrase being

bandied around, to describe the extraordinary achievements of

disabled athletes. We are seen as inspiring beings, not whole people,

much as porn, you know, in its trueest sense, object fies women or

men that take part in it, arguably. We will see more disability on TV

in this 12 days, than we have seen in the 12 years previous. So the

public, disabled and non-disabled people, will be getting their

messages about disability from this. It will be about exceptional,

inspiring individuals. And I think it is going to set up this divide

between the good and the bad cripple. Surprisingly, perhaps,

Britain's most celebrated paralympian, has quit a lot of

sympathy with that argument. I was there the night Tanni Grey-Thompson

achieved one of the most dramatic of her 11 gold medals. But in her

life after sport, the now, "Baroness" Grey-Thompson, has been

in involved in the fight to protect the benefits of disabled people

from welfare cuts. The reality is the Paralympics is the fairy dust

of life as a disabled people. It shows a snapshot in time of

extraordinary people who train very hard and who are good at sport.

Whether or not that will ultimately change the lives of disabled people

in the long-term is up to much greater debate. If there is one

thing the Paralympics could do is opening people's minds, saying they

used to have a dreadful opinion of disabled people and it is not now

it won't change the world but it could have a positive impact.

peerence of covering the last four Paralympics, tells me that for the

next few days, disability will be on everyone's lips, it also tells

me, that memories can fade very fast. What I don't want to happen

is that we go, wow, amazing, it must be incredibly to be able --

incredible to be disabled, they can run and smile and are just like us,

we are, but we are all facing difficult times ahead. Let's not

forget that. I'm joined by paralympian

basketball player, Ann Wild, now a pistol shooter, actress and trainee

lawyer, Shannon Murray, and comedienne and writer, Francesca

Martinez. What did you make of the Opening Ceremony, Stephen Hawking,

the presiding figure. I thought it was brilliant to see such a

fabulous spectacle celebrating all aspects of disability. Something we

never see on TV. I think it was great that Stephen Hawking was

there, I think it would be crazy if he wasn't. He is, I guess, the most

famous disabled person, definitely in the UK, and the world. While it

would be crazy not to have him, it plays into the problem we have,

that the only well known disabled people are either Stephen Hawking

or Tanni Grey-Thompson. Your options are either a physicist, or

Paralympic athlete, and there are a lot of disabled people inbetween.

What did you think of it? I loved it, I thought it was fantastic to

see so much diversity on TV. The media is really bad usually at

representing difference, and I think the media really has a lot of

power. It could normalise difference. So that aspect is

fantastic. I would like to hope that one day the Paralympics would

be more integrated with the main games, because I think that there

is a danger that it is viewed as a separate entity, and it confirms

the stereotype that disabled people are a separate group from society,

it confirms the "them and us" thinking. I don't like that, I

think there are no normal people, everyone is different. Disability

is normal. It has always existed, it always will exist. You as a

former paralympian, you have changed your sport, you are no

longer basketball, and going for pistol shooting, we will see

probably in Rio. What do you think about that. That the Paralympics

can only emphasise separateness, rather than bringing it together

with the Olympics? I think things have changed dramatically this time

round. This will be the best games ever as paralympians, it will

change people's perceptions of disability. We are also narrowing

the gap between the Olympics and Paralympics. You look at Oscar

Pistorias, a double amputee, and competing in the Olympics. We are

lessening the gap between Olympics and Paralympics. What do you say to

Liz Carr's criticism that it leads to inspiration porn. That you have

people with disability who load their lives, and then there is the

elite athletes, and again that emphasising another separation?

think it is an interesting idea, but it is not one that applies to

me, as a person, because obviously I kind of cover quite a few

different areas. I was a professional occupational therapist,

I was also a paralympian, but I have also needed the help and

support of the Government when I haven't been able to be part of

society as I would have wanted to be. Do you think there is a problem

with the superhuman tag? I think there can be. I think amongst

disabled people, I don't really have many friends who are disabled

who are athletes, but many who are creative and work in media. When

anything about disability is out on television or in newspapers,

particularly, obviously, in 2012, there is a huge emphasis on the

Paralympics, on being superhuman, on being a super, amazing athlete,

who has overcome huge feats, which are stories in themselves and need

to be told. But what worries me, as Liz said, there is a huge gulf in -

- inbetween, a successful disabled person in their own life. You have

a poll where 72% of people polled believe that people with

disabilities are not visible in the media outside the Paralympics. Do

you think the Olympics being in -- Paralympics in London will change

that. There will be lots more comediennes with cerebral palsy

will be on television and actresses in wheelchairs? I think celebrating

the achievements of disabled people, and allowing us to be portrayed in

a positive strong way, instead of as victims is great. But there is a

real polarisation in the press between parts of the press seem to

want to demonise us as benefits cheats and drains on society. And

part of it saying we are inspirational and amazing. There is

no real middle ground there. I think it is highly ironic that ATOS

is the sponsor, and they are the private company carrying out the

Government cuts. I find that highly hypocritical, and I know a lot of

disabled people all around the country are very sickened about

that. We will talk about that later. What about visibility, from your

point of view, what about the general attitudes, obviously an

elite Olympic athlete, but generally, in your day-to-day life,

what are attitudes like? I think they are changing. People are

starting to ask more questions. They are not as scared of

disability as they once were. People were very anxious about

asking me things about my life and who I was as a person. Now it is

all about exposure of people, rather than being labelled as a

certain athlete, or as a professional, or as somebody who

doesn't work. I'm now being exposed as a person, to society. Rather

than just something that has been labelled. That was another thing

that Liz Carr said, of course, that the danger was you saw somebody as

an inspirational figure, rather than a person? I think that happens

a lot, when you are disabled. Particularly if you are disabled

and doing something not expected of you. Is that a problem, not enough

is expected? Possibly. Maybe sometimes when you are disabled, it

is easy to surpass people's expectations, I know when I was

injured, the reason I almost ran away, as it were, from Paralympic

athletics, was because it was what was put in front of me, this is

what you can achieve. I felt that wasn't what I wanted today achieve

before my accident, why after my accident. I haven't changed as a

person hugely. I felt a little bit like people were putting a ceiling

on what I could do. And say here is the Paralympics this is what you

can do. I didn't want to do it. You're an actress, a writer, you

are training to be a lawyer now. In people's day-to-day dealings with

you, have you seen a shift in the last few years, or have you had to

make sure that happened yourself, have you had to be out there?

have never, on a one-to-one with people in my daily life, I don't

experience huge degrees of negativeity. Where I get it would

be in transport situations. So taxi drivers can be less than helpful,

airlines and special assistance at airports can be really less than

helpful. They are the situations you are left helpless, if you are

sitting on a train, and you have communicated by e-mail and phone

that you need a ramp at the station, and when you get to the station

there is no ramp and the train is about to get to the next station,

it is that feeling of humiliation, and degrading that you have to

approach strangers for help. What is your experience of that?

really think that the Paralympics will help improve attitudes.

when you are out in your daily life, do you find people? I think it is

complex. I think we have, I think attitudes are improving in one

sense, but also we have the fact that disability hate crime is at a

record high, so that is very worrying. We also have the

Government systematically attacking basic human rights of disabled

people. You are, your new show, what is the title? It is called

"What the Four- star is Normal", it is looking at the labels, everyone

has a disability, are you normal? In a way it seems disproportion in

the terms of the advertising, you have Pistorias, do we have high-

visibility of people with mental disability? Not really, I wasn't

aware those rules had changed in the week, that was just because I

saw it on my Twitter feed. That is a huge step forward. I think Oscar

has received a lot of press, he was in the Olympics, he's naturally

going to go under all that attention. I think there are an

awful lot of athletes out there that deserve equal credits. The

advertising campaign Channel 4 has done has been incredible. It has

made Paralympics and disability cool and edgey, it has made people

want to watch, without it being an inspiring story, it is just looking

like great TV. Many disabled people are concerned about the Government

reforms to disability benefits. The Government says financial

assistance will be channelled to those most in need, after major

reform was passed earlier this year. The Government says �6600 million

is need -- �600 million is needlessly wasted. There have been

allegations that ATOS, those charged with seeing who is fit to

work, and a major Paralympic sponsor too, is not putting in the

reform fairly. Crowds cheer the torch, while many disabled people

in Britain are worried about their own future, as benefits change.

Ella Findlay has multiple sclerosis, she works as a recruitment adviser

for disabled people. Disability Living Allowance helps pay for her

car and scooter. She's concerned her benefit will be cut. If it

weren't more the motorability element of my DNA, I wouldn't be

able to get to my job, I wouldn't have a reliable car, all of these

things. It enables me to remain independent, and provide, pay my

taxes, all of these things. So I remain financially semi-independent.

The broad aim of the two main disability benefits remains the

same. Incapacity Benefit, now called Employment Support Allowance,

is for people who cannot work. Disability Living Allowance, soon

to be Personal Independence Payment, is to help people with their daily

livesment for the employed, unemployed, even children. Since

2003, claims for Incapacity Benefit have fallen, while claims for DLA,

have risen. It costs the Government over �12 billion a year, more than

double the cost of jobseeker's allowance. The key thing is to make

sure that resources are used efficiently, one would hope that

could involve substantial savings, but also those resources actually

enable people to overcome disabilities, to overcome problems,

and actually be economically productive, and largely self-

sufficient, that has to be the aim of the policy. Just because it is a

controversial area of policy, just because it is an area that rouses

very high emotions in the debate. I don't think that is a reason for

the coalition not to tackle it. This is the headquarters of the

French firm, ATOS, they run medical assessments of disabled people, on

behalf of the Government, to check whether they are fit for work. They

have made many mistakes, campaigners say, and to mark that,

on the eve of the London Paralympic Games, they have staged their own,

rather macabre, stunt. Presenting ATOS, a Paralympic sponsor, with a

coffin, that stands, they say, for hundreds of people, who have died

after they were assessed by ATOS, as able to work, and their

Incapacity Benefit was withdrawn. Nearly 40% of appeals against ATOS

assessments are upheld. And from next year, ATOS will be assessing

claimants for Disability Living Allowance too. ATOS said that it

did not make decisions on people's benefit entitlement, or on welfare

policy, but provided a service as highly professional and

compassionate as it can be. reason that Disability Living

Allowance came about in the first place, was under the Conservative

Government of Thatcher, they understood that people with

disabltsd faced extra costs in managing their lives in a -- the

world. It was to make sure those people got what they needed. We are

not taking money for no reason. It is not something that we are just

tkwrasening and pocketing. One -- Grasping and pocketing.

significant change, the most disabled suesed to get disability

allowance -- disability -- used to get Disability Living Allowance

automatically, that is not the case in future. It is right to say there

isn't blanket entitlements, and people have to be assessed. There

hasn't been proper assessment. The more you go down a long list saying

this particular problem or disability will automatically

render you eligible for receipt of DLA, you actually start to remove a

lot of the discretion we need to show in each particular

circumstance. The Paralympics will be the face of disability for the

next 11 days, once the games are over, the difficult issue of

disability benefits will come to the fore again. More from our panel

in a moment. Earlier I spoke to the Minister for Disabled People, Maria

Miller. The reforms coming in next year,

when Disability Living Allowance becomes Personal Independence

Payments which, the DWP's figures, you hope to save 20% of the budget

by 2015. One would say n these recessionary times, a laudible aim,

will you do it? What we will do with the reform of Disability

Living Allowance, is continue to spend the same amount as we were

last year by 2015, 16, what we are -- 2016, what we are trying to do

is keep the amount of spending on disability allowance under control.

I think that is control. At the moment we know that more than �600

million is going out in overpayments to people who no

longer qualify for the level of benefit support that they are

receiving. It is important we have those sorts of checks in place. At

the moment there is no way of reassessing individuals, and these

are all important things to do. Particularly now, at a time when we

have the Paralympics in London, that we have a benefits system that

is there to support people, and not potentially leave them trapped in

benefit dependency. Let's talk about the in coming assessments,

done by ATOS, many of those for whom Disability Living Allowance is

automatic, will not necessarily qualify for Personal Independence

Payments. Led me just read you the list. Severe mental impairment,

deaf blindness, severe visual impairment, double amputee, chemmo,

dialysis, that means you will not amically qualify if you are a

double amputee? Nobody is advocating a benefit focusing on an

individual impairment. What most disability organisations and most

disabled people want, is a disability support system that

focuses on their every day needs, not whether or not they have this

condition or that condition. We are working with 60 disability

organisations to put together the new payment, that is the approach

they have asked us to take, that is ate proch we have taken. Let's look

at the -- The approach we have taken. Let's look at the Incapacity

Benefit changed to ESA, there is 40% appealing, and 40% have had the

decision reversed, why is that? employment sport allowance is

different to the Personal Independence Payment, the

Employment Support Allowance is whether or not you are able to get

into work. Yes, there are appeals there, we are working with the

court system to make sure that we can do everything we can to

understand why suppose things are happening. We are working now with

the judges to understand that much better. We have spoken to Citizens

Advice Bureau, they are talking about the length of time of the

wait for an appeal being a year. Can you guarantee under the new

system of Personal Independence Payments that nobody will have to

wait for a year for their appeal. The system with Disability Living

Allowance, at the moment, and with Personal Independence Payment, is

quite different. If people are reassessed under the Disability

Living Allowance, yes you can appeal, you don't continue to

receive payments after you have been found ineligible for benefit.

Exactly my point? That is the system at the moment. If there is a

year's wait for appeal, as there is in certain cases, that could be

extremely debilitating for people? We are working with 60 disability

organisations to make sure we get the assessment right and it is

implemented properly. We are undertaking assessments in a

different way to the way they are done with the Work Capability

Assessment. We will be using regional contracts, NHS, and two

different companies to administer it. We are very much working on

making sure we get it right. you explain why so many disability

groups are very critical of these changes, Scope, for example?

Clearly it is a change to baen fit that has been in place for almost -

- A to a benefit that has been in place for almost 20 years. What is

acknowledged by many organisations is working hard to make sure we get

the changes in the assessment right, and most importantly of all, making

sure this benefit is all about helping individuals live an

independent life. Not simply categorising them on their

impairment. Is Scope entirely wrong in their criticism? I have been

working closely with them and many other organisations, but as

importantly, with disabled people themselves. What they tell me they

want the benefit to do, is help them live a more independent life.

At the moment we have more than �600 million of Disability Living

Allowance, going out to people, who are no longer eligible for that

benefit. I think it is enbum bent on the Government to make sure we -

- incumbent on the Government to make sure we fix that and the money

is going where it is needed and we continue to spend as much money in

2016 as we were last year on this benefit. That is more than the

entire budget for the department for trons port.

Transport. Joining us is Mark Littlewood with my other guests

still with us. Shannon, the minister is right,

isn't she, that the money has to go to those most in need. Money is

being wasted, two million more people claim it now than in 1992,

when it came in. Something has to be done? I realise things have to

be done, and everyone is in a difficult financial position, there

are various benefit that is need to be cut. With the focus on DLA, what

they are doing just isn't going to help anybody. I know she's talking

about working with disability organisations, all the disability

organisations I know completely disagree with the proposed changes

to the DLA, the same with disabled people I know. People are scared,

the im fibgts of the changes are incredibly debilitating, and not

providing independent. People want to be helped into leading an

independent life, that is what DLA does. The Disability Living

Allowance was given at the time when it was started in 1992, as an

allowance for life, that is changed now. How do you feel about being

reassessed? I feel terribly disappointed. It doesn't change the

fact that I still have a disability. I have had it since I was born. And

to be reassessed now is just something that means I may not get

the help that I need in my progress through life. If I didn't have the

support from DLA in the first place, I'm not sure I would have become an

occupational therapist and be part of society the way I am. For me now,

certainly it would change my life, in a very negative way. On the

evidence of the Incapacity Benefit changes, and the assessments for

that. Are you confident it will be the right kind of assessment for

people with disability? I'm not sure about that. I'm not here to be

a spokesperson for ATOS. We would need to keep that under review. I

am sure that the Government is right to look at this. It is a very

complicated area. Some of the numbers you have mentioned. In the

last nine years, the number of claimants go up from 2.3 million to

three million, that is giving us pause for thought, seeing the

numbers come up. We have not had a robust system of making sure those

people claiming are entitled. It has to be looked into. Is that a

measure of success that IB has fallen, Incapacity Benefit has

fallen as a result of the new test? There is a measure of success. The

question is, what is the opt Numan of appeals, your -- opt minimum of

appeals. It is not your responsibility, but it seems

extraordinary? Unsurprisingly the processes of Government are moving

far too slowly. What is your feeling about assessment? Your life

has changed since you were assessed. You are a successful comedienne,

what do you think about that? could save people time and

resources saying I will not going to wake up tomorrow and say I'm not

wobbly any more. This isn't welfare reform, it is welfare cuts. The

minister, Chris Greyling talked about tough love and getting people

back to work. This benefit has a 0.3% of a fall it is tiny. Chris

Greyling imhimself was implicated for the expenses scandal for over

�10thou, where is the tough love for the banks and the corporations

who still pay little or no tax, where is the tough love for our own

Government, half of the MPs were implicated in the expenses scandals.

I think we need to ask ourselves who the real scroungers in society

really are? What do you say to the Government, that �600 million is

being spent in the wrong way, and wasted. Presumably that money, if

reassessed, will go to people in real need? You can't look at a

benefit, working for 20 years, effectively, and say it should be

somewhere else. Why change something that has been working

really, really quite well for everybody, in this case. Tell me,

Shannon, here you are, you are going to be training as a lawyer,

with a bit of luck you will end up as a partner in a high-flying media

law firm. You will be earning shed loads of money if you do that. Why

should you have a disability allowance, when the taxpayer is

struggling any way, and why would you have that as a matter of right?

Firstly, no amount of money, no amount of promotions or jobs are

going to make me walk again. I could be partner and I still

wouldn't be able to walk or use the tubes or buses independently. It's

almost a redundant question. If my DLA is taken away from me in the

next few years, I won't get to that position any way. DLA is what got

me through my A-levels and got me to university, through all my jobs.

The jobs that enable me to be a taxpayer and contribute to society.

If DLA is taken away from me, and I won't have motorability, or a car,

how can I get to work, I can't use the transport system. The point is

that the DLA will be replaced by the independent assessment, my

point is, that when you are earning a lot of money, do you really need

that allowance? I think that depends on what somebody's large

amount of money is. That depends, would I be a high earner with a

husband out of work and four children. I don't think you can

just say you earn this much money, therefore you don't get it. Like in

any form of assessment, you have to look at all the circumstances. That

is the thing with the DLA assessments, the reason is there is

so much fear is the track record with the IB assessments, they are

not looking at the big question, there is an eight-page questionaire,

it used to be 60-pages, now it is eight-pages, "can you lift a

cardboard box", how does that show I'm eligible. Do you think the

questionaire is inning? It is, it is there to take the money, not for

-- Do you think the cut is insulting? It is, it is there to

take the money not to assess. don't think the benefit is being

optimally spent. Looking at the statistic, I'm wordied a large

number of claims are made with casual reference to a GP. The

important thing is to have a robust process that is still trustworthy.

It may be that all 3.2 people claiming are legitimately claiming,

maybe it will? It is not just the letter from your GP, it is a full

assessment. There has been an extraordinary rise in the number,

which doesn't seem to be met by any other way of measuring disability.

What do you as describe the rise, there has been an exponeings rise

since 1992 -- exupon neings rise since 1992? It is what we were

saying earlier, there is less people on incapacity, but claiming

the right kind of benefit, to enable them to become part of

society. And part of the society that they deem is achievable for

them. People are choosing the right things and using them in the right

way. You could attribute it to science, people able to live a

healthy life as a disabled people. There used to be the perception

that disabled people were unhealthy. As you can see in the Paralympics,

you can be healthy but have mobility issues. The Government is

redesigning disability, so many people won't qualify for the

benefit, they may be hard to understand, but most disabled

people want to work, they want to contribute. I myself have found it

so hard all my life to ask for help, under this new system we are

forcing disabled people to have to beg, in a very humiliating way, for

basic rights. Do you accept that some people have been claiming that

shouldn't have been claiming? said before, the ESA fraud raid is

0.3%, DLA fraud rate is 0.5%, these are tiny, tiny amounts, and I just

want to point that the fraud rate of DLA costs �60 million, where as

DLA reforms are costing �710 million. Your numbers differ

markedly from the guess mate of the Government figures. These aren't

Government figures. Government's figures are they could

save a fortune going down this route. They may be proven to be

wrong. For something that is costing �12 billion a yeerbgts and

applied to 3.2 -- a year, and applied to 3.2 million people. It

opens the question, sensitively and carefully, that we are getting the

right money to the right place? point about that is surely if the

Government's attitude is, it is not case of an open look at this, we

definitely want to save money, surely that is incaucated in ATOS?

They have reached a view that there are likely claimant that is don't

need the money. That does not mean that looking through this

substantial welfare budget should be seen as an take on people who do

really need help in our society, in order to fully enter the work place.

I would like to ask Mark one question, to say if the Government

the Government want to save money, why not go after the billions they

are losing in tax to wealthy individuals. The Government should

save across the board in as many areas as he they can.

As they can. The Chancellor has batted off Nick Clegg's idea as an

emergency wealth tax, as one might swat off a fly. George Osborne

warned that the Deputy Prime Minister's proposal to help the

economic recovery, would risk driving the wealthiest people out

of the country. Nick Clegg appears to have been flying solo. What does

that say for the collation gi., -- coalition Government, or his

attitude to senior politicians in his own party.

That's how William the Conqueror's early stab at assess the populace

started. It was called like God's terrible judgment, it could not be

avoided nor challenged. Which is why, after, no doubt, deep speech

with his own counsellors, the Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg,

has come to the conclusion we need another wealth tax. Interviewed in

A mansion tax is a type of wealth tax, one example of a wealth tax.

And what Nick Clegg has said today, politics starting again after the

summer break, is we must not forget, as a country, that if we are to

have a fairer society, and help us grow out of our difficulties, one

of the best ways of doing that will be to return to the agenda about

whether we have a wealth tax, which we believe we should do, as well as

a fair income tax system. But Nick Clegg has a problem, that unlike

William 1st, he hasn't conquered the realm. Any wealth tax would

need Conservative support to become coalition policy. Today, the

Chancellor, seemed less than enthusiastic about the idea. I do

want the wealthy to make their fair contribution to reducing the public

deficit, that is why I have increased property taxes on very

expensive homes. We also don't want to drive away the wealth creators

and the business leaders and entrepeneurs, who will create the

job, and help move the economy forward. We need the balance, the

wealthy need to pay more, but let's not drive away the wealth creators.

Unlike the Lib Dem's mansion tax, a levy on property over �2 million,

this new tax has less detail, which has led many to suggest it is more

about raising support for the Lib Dem conference, rather than raising

money for the Exchequer. We have seen this in the past and now, in

2009 Gordon Brown was about to lose the last general election, he

brought forward the rate of tax. You have Nick Clegg suffering

problems with his party, less than impressed than they could be,

suddenly Nick Clegg wants to tax the rich to win favour whizz own

party. He's chasing headlines, trying to pla Kate some very angry

-- Placate some very angry Lib Dem supporters, who are very

exasperated, that he's doing the total opposite in Government than

what he has saying. What could the wealth tax look like, the world is

more complex than the conquerer's day, then poking around someone's

barn for oxen and grain was all that was required. Today, poking

around the assets of the superwealthy is a lot harder?

concern is how many people will take flight. That has happened

recently, the Government introduced an ex-pat tax, from 2008, non-

domicile people, that is for, quite a few people left the country. We

can see in France, where Monsieur Hollande is proposing to increase

taxes to 75%, a lot of wealthy people are looking to buy property

in the UK, and invest here generally. If we start introducing

wealth taxes, again, we may lose the benefit of those wealthy people,

who eat in our restaurants, and stay in our hotels, and generally

contribute to our spending. evidence is not that if you had a

fairer wealth taxation system you would be driving people away. Parts

of the states have half a per cent of people's assets taken as tax.

France has introduced a system, people haven't been leaving the

states and France because of that. People understand that not just

income, but also wealth, is a way of assessing how well you are doing.

Does Mr Clegg expect to conquer the options of his coalition colleagues,

or is this more about keeping his own party happy, trying to

reconnect with the voters who the polls suggest have deserted the

party. In short, trying to avert his own political doomsday.

Funnily enough, no Lib Dems inside the Government were available to

speak about this. But David Grossman is here. Will it ever

become policy? It might at some point in the future. At the moment

it look like the main job of this interview Nick Clegg gave to the

Guardian, was to introduce the main theme of the Liberal Democrat

conference, which starts in three weeks time. Why do I say that. If

we look at the first page of of the adwend da of the Lib Dem conference,

there is the slogan "fairer tax in tough times", perhaps you might ask

that he will unveil a fully formed policy at that conference. It is

only a few days ago the Liberal Democrats introduced a consultation

paper, which they described as the first stage of a new tax policy. In

it there is a section on tax rises, and the consultation date is

October this year. They might be contributing to it? If they have a

fully formed policy, if they have T the reason you are talking to me

rather than Liberal Democrats, at the moment there is no questions

than answers on the policies. this about positioning Nick Clegg

and the coalition? There is a job they think they are doing. They

will be very plos today see large number of Conservatives coming out

to see -- pleased to see a large number of Conservatives coming out

on the right side. The most gleeful are Labour, they say it gives them

an opportunity to look at Liberal Democrats supporting the budget

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 42 seconds

that cut the top rate of tax. That is all from Newsnight tonight,

we will leave you with more highlights from the Paralympics

Opening Ceremony. From everyone We had to put up with more soaking

rain in places through today, tomorrow more of us will escape dry.

There are still some showers around, by the afternoon they are focused

on central and eastern parts of the UK, to the north and west. Northern

England having a fine afternoon, temperatures just into the mid-

teens, the odd sharp shower across the Midlands. For East Anglia and

the south-east, a few thunderstorms around for a while. Late into the

evening they will fade away as it becoming mainly dry. It is dry for

the afternoon. In south-west England and Wales. One or two

morning showers, into the afternoon we have broken cloud, some sunshine

coming through. But again, that noticable north or north-westerly

breeze, which for Northern Ireland, despite the sunshine, will told

temperatures down into the mid- teens, and a similar picture across

Scotland. You have the sunshine to compensate, and no fierce downpours