27/09/2012 Newsnight

You can hear it any pub in the land, eastern European migrants are

taking British jobs. Tonight, how eastern European migrants are being

exploited by British employers. To get around the law they're taken on

as notionally self-employed. Contracts don't mean what you think

they mean. Can you bring her down stirs. That is not a contract, it

is provisional. We'll discuss why our immigration system is failing

and what should be done to fix it. After days of protests the Spanish

government tells its people that public spending is about to be cut

drastically. In Madrid tonight, there are no protests, just

resignation as 40 billion euros of cuts are announced.

Exonerated in the summer, found guilty of the same alleged offence

today. Is the captain of Chelsea a victim of double jeopardy? Does

Magna Carter mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain? And, at least

David Cameron knows a bit more. But what is it fair to expect a

political leader to know? We've come up with our own quiz.

Romania and Bulgaria are both part of the European Union. The European

Union believes in free movement of labour. So both Bulgarians and

Romanians are free to work here, right? Wrong. When the two

countries joined the European Union, the Blair government promised

strict conditions on those who came to work in Britain. This has not

surprisingly perhaps, turned out to be meaningless. The rules are being

broken and broken brazenly. In the process, people coming to this

country are being exploited and generally without any redress. Jim

At the very end of the tuba line in North London is Edgeware, the

centre of London's Romanian community. The official best guess

is 75,000 Romanians have come to Britain since EU membership in 2007.

The true figure is may be much higher. But while Romanians and

Bulgarians have every right to live in the UK, they don't have an

automatic right to work here. KNOCKING.

Extra restrictions were placed on workers from both countries when

they joined the EU. Those rules mean that as employees they have to

stick to jobs that are highly skilled or in sectors where there

is a shortage of labour. In many, low-paid service jobs, it is not

difficult to hear a Romanian accent, a Bulgarian voice. How is that

possible? Who are these workers living and working in the grey

economy? Can you bring her downstairs? It's was 2007 and just

a few weeks after Romania joined the EU, this lady took a coach to

London. Like thousands of other migrants, she took a gamble so

hotel cleaning was in obvious place to start. She has never had before

right to work as an employee in this country, but there is a

loophole in emigration law. It you are Romanian or Bulgarian, you are

free to work anywhere in the UK as The suspicion is, workers like this

are not really self- employed. Instead they are treated like

employees, but often with less pay, fewer rights and no job protection.

But, what is in it for the agencies? By using self employed

labour, they might be able to avoid some these light National Insurance.

They don't have to pay holiday or sickness benefits, there are no

contracts, maternity pay and they can easily lay off staff with

little comeback. So much so, or bogus and employment has been

called the loophole of choice for many low-paid sectors. It is

everybody, it is a process which does not help. For industry it

creates an environment where there seems to be cowboys operating

outside the law, which is something we are keen they do not do and we

have put everything in place to stop them. The Government does not

get the tax and National Insurance, the workers are exploited and the

individual employer, their reputation is at risk. The latest

figures show 94,000 people living in the UK are Romanian by birth.

Higher than all the EU states like Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech

Republic. Figures from the University of Oxford say 27,000 of

those say they are self-employed. Those figures are based on survey

data, but experts agree the real number is likely to be higher. So,

we set off in the footsteps of many of those young Romanians to try and

find a job in the UK. We teamed up with a young journalist on Romania

and she does not want her name used in his report.

Bank statements, and you can see an array of samples. The first step is

to get a proof of address and bank account if you do not have one

already. You can use these to take to the bank to open an account.

This is where the internet comes in. It offers everything from fake

people defied, to gas bills and tax returns. They are sold as a novelty

items to get around the law, but he would pay �75 for novelty bank

statement? We called a dozen recruitment agencies specialising

in the hospitality sector. Mine wouldn't accept on the self-

employed basis because it would break the law. But three said they

would take on reporter on. Calibre International supplies cleaning

staff to some of the best known five-star hotels in the capital.

She is offered a job that evening cleaning at an upmarket, London

restaurants. When she inquires about hotel where, she is told to

lie about her experience. -- hotel If you days later, and Calibre

sends us to a job interview in central London. There., St Ermin's

Hotel reopened last year after a �30 million refit. A-night here

over the Olympic Games cost around �300 for a standard double room.

Olympic referees stayed here and it was used as a base for the tourism

industry. Our reporter works two days for no pay training, before

starting a proper ship. The working day starts at 8:00am, and it is a

hard, physical job and cleaners are under pressure to clean rooms as

fast as they can. Is this really self- employment? Chris Jeans is

one of the most senior employment lawyers. We showed him footage from

St Ermin's Hotel, although he cannot comment on any individual

case, he says there are key factors which determines whether someone is

honestly self- employed. If they are told to turn up and work

between certain hours using materials provided by the workplace

or somebody else, on the face of it they won't be self- employed.

at the hotel, are self- employed report does not have much control

over her own working day. Make sure you will be here in the office on

time. I don't want to see no one outside. I don't want to see no one

in the toilets at 8 am. She has to sign in and out just like the other

employees. She has to use the equipment and cleaning materials

she is given by the hotel. The quality of her work is quality

control. No excuse for having brown stains on the bottom of cubs.

is not allowed to take breaks when she wants. The break is at

Any company that employs a Romanian or Bulgarian worker without the

right permission can face criminal sanctions - a �5,000 fine or

imprison side since. We have found out since 2007, any one successful

prosecution has been brought by the Home Office in England and Wales.

We have enough regulation and legislation. We are looking for

Government agencies to enforce it, so we don't have this race to the

bottom. It is about Government agencies and forcing the

legislation that is already there. Two days on, our reporter leaves

her job. A week later, her first payslips arrives. For two day's

hard work, she receives just under �30. She should have been paid at

least �90, self- employed or not, on the minimum wage rules. There is

plenty of law to stop you doing it, what is necessary is enforcement.

As in every other sector, you can have as many laws as you like, but

if there is no one there to enforce it, it is ineffective. We went back

to Calibre to ask why the pay was Most agencies pay their workers by

the hour, but although Calibre claims to do this, both to its

cleaners and to the programme, we than the agency are only paying for

the rooms that were cleaned. It makes it difficult, if not

impossible for many dealers, as they see those starting out with

less experience to learn the Then, when we asked for a copy of

our own paperwork, it is torn to We showed some of our findings to

the tax authorities and the Government. They say they take the

issues seriously and will now investigate. Odd job search is over,

but serious questions remain about the way immigration and Labour

rules are enforced, not just in the hotel sector but across the UK.

In a statement Calibre said it provides details of its self-

employed workers to the Home Office, which it says, has never raised any

concerns. It maintains that those workers pay virtually the same

amount of tax and national insurance as salaried staff. St

Ermin's Hotel, which featured in that report, said it is no longer

working with Calibre after it became aware recently of possible

irregularities in some of its employment practices.

We had the Labour MP on the all- party group on migration. Cristina

Irmie edits an online newspaper for Romanians living in Britain, and

Kevin Green is boss of the employments Federation which

represents employment agencies. How widespread is this exploitation?

is very widespread. It becomes more so because of the difficulties

Romanians continue to face in coming to this country and getting

a legal status. So none of this is news to you, however shocking to

other people? It is just taking bigger precautions. Would you

describe your industry as regulated? It is very regulated.

But the regulations are not enforced? Absolutely. Despite the

fact that three out of 12 agencies, 25% in that sample appeared to be

doing exactly what we saw in the film? It is right in terms of the

percentage of firms contacted. You are picking on a particular sector

which does have a greater percentage. If you think about the

industry, we represent executive search firms, interim manage firms,

all the UK recruitment. And this sector is under huge pressure,

driven by competition from the hotels to the recruitment

businesses. Were you not surprised? I am not surprised. What is the

consequence of this behaviour? Bogus self-employment is a growing

scandal. You get hotels like St Ermin's Hotel charging �300 a night

for a room, which don't want to employ directly, using rogue

agencies and increasingly, gang masters who don't want to and ploy

directly. They make the rouble work as an offer they cannot refuse,

deliberately designed to denied their responsibilities and rights.

What it does, it exploits the newly arrived, it undercuts the host

nation, workers in the host nation, and it undercuts reputable agencies,

the reputable agencies who undercut. What your P's has done is to expose

the scandal. We need effective enforcement of the law. The

Government is going in exactly the The reason we are in this position

is because of regulations brought in by your party will you were in

government. We brought in the gang masters Licensing Agency... But the

scam of self-employment was a consequence of the cap put on

migration of this country for people wanting to work from Romania

and Bulgaria, which your government brought in. We could have done more

but we did much. Including, equal treatment of agency workers and the

directly employed. Now the government is cutting back on

enforcement of the law. Everyone agrees that what is necessary is

proper enforcement of the law. Christina, have the consequence of

this law been to deter people from coming from Romania to Britain?

at all. I would like to make a point on the fact that the

Migration Advisory Committee was actually consulting the Romanian

community in the previous years, and that exploitation and

vulnerable workers were the causes that we pleaded on and we tried to

demonstrate that you are not stopping people from coming here.

It has no effect, it is not stopping people coming here, they

are just being exploited when they get here. But you do understand the

force of the argument that the first response of a government is

to its own citizens and it had to take a step to protect them from

being undercut in the workplace. do understand that but we keep on

talking and having a debate about illegal migrants, but then we are

actually talking about union, European Union citizens. But your

compatriots, as much as the employees who may be British

companies, whatever the nationality of the people they employ, they are

bending the rules. Are they not doing that because...? If they do

not have a legal right to be here, what are they doing here?

cannot blame the victims for their eggs flotation -- exploitation. You

get rogue companies that exploit... The first duty of the government is

to ensure fair and equal treatment of all workers so that you don't

have exploitation and undercutting and that is what we have got

increasingly. The question is, why do we have the different rules for

Bulgarians and Romanians? That is the key issue. A what is your

argument? That anyone within the EU should be free to come and work

here? We are the only ones that are not allowed to work here. The he is

arguing that everybody should be treated the same. I think that

would give us an open labour market, if we are going to have free

movement of labour... It would help in this situation where you have

rogue agencies been complicit with companies to manipulate the rules

so they get cheap labour, and the rules were clearly defined,

originally, to be helpful, but actually what they are doing is we

have got victims, in terms of the exploited individuals, our sector

that is undermined by a rogue agencies and the government sitting

on its hands, and we need robust enforcement so we don't end up with

exploitation of legitimate businesses. A fair treatment and

fair competition. Are you in a position to commit the Labour Party

to imposing no restrictions on any future accession of states to the

European Union? Of course it is what we should manage migration...

That is what Tony Blair said about Bulgaria... We need to focus on

what Kevin has just said. Which is? Everybody should be treated the

same? Absolutely. A pernicious business model that exploits the

newly arrived and undercuts the host community, that is wrong.

only because of conditions imposed by your government. No, it is

because of rogue agencies and gang masters who say to newly arrived

workers, if you want to work you have to be self-employed, like that

woman then who tore up the contract and somebody asked for a document,

she got up the contract and tore it up and said, you have to understand

your status in this country. What kind of country is this, Jeremy,

with behaviour like that? created this status, your party in

government! We have... You except that, don't you? Bogus self-

employment. It is a consequence of your policy on employment rights in

this country for people from Bulgaria and Romania. It is a

consequence of bad employees who want to take advantage... --

employers. I understand she was saved there should be no

discrimination, but you previously said the responsibility of the

government first is towards its own citizens. What is your opinion?

this particular case, as somebody who has been established here for a

long time, and he has done business, if you want the rules not to be

bent, then don't allow them to be bent. And you can actually control

it. You know the sectors where vulnerable workers are. A you all

agree essentially that the rules must be enforced. Absolutely. Fair

treatment, fair competition, no place for the road -- the rogues.

Either look at the rules and say, free access like for anybody else

from the European Union, or you have to enforce these different

rules because otherwise you get the individuals being exploited and the

market be manipulated. Thank you very much. A budget for a crisis to

help get us out of a crisis was the way the Spanish Deputy Prime

Minister described her government's announcements today. What she meant

was that there are all sorts of things you are not going to get. 40

billion euros worth of cuts to spending in total. Howls of

distress from Spanish citizens, while the European Commission duly

barked its support. But what no-one knows yet, although it won't be

long, is whether the hustlers who make and break currencies will be

pacified. Joe Lynam is in Madrid. This time last night, there was a

mass of young men and women are venting their anger before they

were battened offer the streets by 400 police officers. Today, traffic

is flowing freely and access to parliament is there. That is

because Spaniards have a weary sense of acceptance and resignation

about the Budget today, health and education to be cut by 15%, but I

suspect the government is not enacting the kind of austerity that

it will be required when, not if, they have to go as or more bail-

outs to the European Union. Spaniards are seeing how this will

affect their lives. Spain has been bracing itself, counting down to

what they knew would be painful but unavoidable. The TV stations have

been covering little else for weeks. There viewers would doubtless

shocked at the intensity of the protests from Spanish streets ahead

of the Budget, as thousands of frustrated and jobless had to be

taken away from the vicinity of the parliament. The police are now

clearing the square in front of the parliament and they are dispersing

protesters that way, as it were, to make sure that the main

thoroughfares in Madrid are clear for the traffic tomorrow morning.

Today in the newsroom of a business channel, I wanted to get a sense of

what the silent majority in Spain were making of the sweeping cuts

that they knew were needed but have trouble swallowing. One of the

things that Mediterranean people ask is our mood changes very

quickly, and now we are really pessimistic. We had been so for

four years but now the vision of not having light at the end of the

tunnel, it is doing things even worse. Charged with the this

miraculous turnaround is during centre-right government, which has

had the shortest honeymoon in political history. We were

expecting to have a deficit that was going to be about 7% of the

economy, and it turned out to be 9% of the economy. In just one month

we did not have that time to react, so in our political manifesto, the

main aim was that we were going to give Spain what Spain was needing.

And there were not every actual promises, but a general promise to

try to manage the situation and improve it. The figures were worse

but we are struggling very hard. But what with the opposition

Socialists do different league? Under Jose's Zapatero, Spain had

between 2004 and 2011, one of the biggest property bubbles in the

world, followed by one of the biggest collapses. Very soon, we

will present a comprehensive reform of the hawk of fiscal system in

Spain. It has to be more progressive -- the whole fiscal

system. In Spain, corporations only pay 11% from their benefits. At the

same time there are a large number of citizens who do not pay taxes

through income tax because they pay two societies, because they are

what we call liberal professionals, such as people who put all their

revenues inside a society and the escape paying taxes. There must be

changes there and we need a more comprehensive system that is able

to control more everybody. And when the budget was announced, it was

depressingly predictable. This economy has already seen 65 billion

euros sucked out of it this year. Today it was confirmed a further 90

billion euros will be slashed in the coming two. Inside the Madrid

stock exchange, the budget was almost ignored. Shares which had

crashed yesterday were up a bit today. In many ways there are two

economies in Spain. One represented by the corporate giants who

continued to flourish around the world, and then there is the real

economy outside. One where unemployment is depressingly high

and consumer spending depressingly low, so the challenge facing the

government is to somehow cut the deficit and at the same time bridge

the gap between his corporate world and a real world outside. Most of

the people realise that we need these cuts. In the last general

election, Mariano Rajoy was elected with a vast majority say people

knew what they were voting for, maybe not that but what we need as

a country, but you know, people feel that, all right, we need to

cut but just cut on the other side and not from my pocket, and this is

a problem. Tonight there was a much more sedate group of people from

Madrid on the streets. Ordinary Spaniards are doubtless at home

mean for their living standards. Tomorrow they will hear how many

billions their broken banks need to stay afloat, just in time for yet

another mass demonstration on Saturday for of --.

For the best part of a thousand years the principle of double

jeopardy has meant that, except in pretty rare cases, you can't be

tried twice for the same offence. Today, the captain of Chelsea

football team, John Terry, discovered the limits of double

jeopardy. He was found not guilty of racial abuse in a court case

Yet today, the Football Association banned him from four matches and

fined him a couple of hundred thousand pounds for the same

offence. He has a right to appeal, although he has not yet said

His John Terry a racist who has finally been made an example of? Or

a man cleared in the eyes of the law only to be punished by an

anonymous FA panel sitting behind closed doors? What is not in doubt

is that the Chelsea captain did after abusive language, including

the word "black" to Anton Ferdinand in a Premier League game almost a

year ago, but Terry claimed he was merely repeating what he thought

the QPR defender had said to him. And that defence was good enough

for Westminster Magistrates' Court, where the play was found not guilty

of racial abuse following a trial in July. Despite that, but FA went

ahead with its own disciplinary hearing this week. On the eve of

that, be on offer England captain announced his retirement from

international football -- the on- off England captain. He said the

procedure had left his position untenable. Some feel it has been

dragged out for too long for. has not been good because of what

it has been about and I don't think it has helped that it was extended.

It would have been far better if it had been taken on board before the

Euros. Ferdinand snubs Terry earlier this season. The etiquette

of the handshake, offered, refused, has become a vital part of match

day. Elsewhere, Patrice Evra is ignored by Luis Suarez after the FA

found the Liverpool player guilty of racial abuse. Football Forums

and phone-ins are wondering tonight why Terry will sit out four games

and pay a fine of �220,000 when Suarez was banned for eight games

and fined �40,000. The FA has yet to elaborate on the findings.

seems in stark contrast to the way the Olympians behaved in the summer

and I think the use of this kind of language, whatever the provocation,

the way they played and behave towards each other and officials is

wrong and must change. The but an England great who notoriously

suffered abuse says the problem of racism goes beyond the football

grounds. You cannot get rid of racism out of football as long as

it exists in society, so it should be targeted in society. The FA can

only do what it can come up for 90 minutes three times a week.

penalties against John Terry are suspended for 14 days while he

decides whether to appeal. He says he is waiting for the FA's written

Pat Nevin played nearly 200 times the Chelsea. He joins us from

Edinburgh. And we have a representative from the Football

supporters' Federation. The language John Terry uses his

offensive, but to warn you, the offensive words could come up in

this discussion. In Edinburgh, what you make of the fact that somebody

could be acquitted by a court of law and then found guilty by the

FA? I was surprised they went that far. If you look at the rules in

the Association of the FA, they say the rule of law should be taken

into account. There is a part of me that does up Lord FA for taking

this see recently. In football we have taken any suggestions of

racism see Risley. I would argue football has been part of the

changing in society and has had a positive effect. But I am

uncomfortable, after working for myself the 32 years against racism,

this leaves me feeling uncomfortable. As far as I

understand, being found not guilty, but it is the use of the words and

not the context that has been taken into account. We will come to the

context soon, but what do you make of the fact there can be an

acquittal of -- in a court of law and being found guilty by the FA.

The FA are the custodians of English football and the charges

brought against John Terry by them were in the context of breaking

football rules. Were as the court case was about a public order

offence, which he was acquitted of. He was charged with a public order

offence, aggravated by race. There are two different standards. No

criminal court case about the law, and then a breaking of paint will

case, where the burden of proof is different, it is about the balance

of propertied disease. They are both about racism? -- probabilities.

He has, they are both about racism. What the FA appeared to do was

discount the context in which the remarks, these offensive remarks

were made? We don't know that, we have not seen the report from the

panel. We cannot say why they came to the conclusion they did. In a

previous case with Patrice Evra and Luis Suarez, there was a very

detailed report which discussed why the balance of properties were as

they were and why the case was found against Luis Suarez. Until we

get the report, we cannot comment on why the FA panel made the

decision and ruling it did. We will come to that case in a moment, what

do you make of this distinction about context? I was stunned, it

you ignore the context of any conversation it can change the

meaning of it. It changes 180 degrees, the meaning of this. If

you ignore the context, imagine a scenario where you go to the

referee and say, him over there he called me a so and so. You get sent

off and charged by the FA, because you're only report in the context.

But we do have to wait for the written report to come out. But I

would be surprised if it comes out with anything more than that.

raises the question why the FA is so useless in all respects. I am

sure you are too diplomatic to put it like that. You raise the

question of Luis Suarez, who gets an eight-match ban for using the

word Negro, and John Terry, used three very bad words and he gets a

shorter ban. What is going on? of the problems with the FA, they

are caught in the middle. You have Government's saying to the FA, get

your house in order, racism is an issue we thought had been tackled

and had gone. Clearly, it hasn't weather at grassroots level or in

the national game. The F8 feel obliged to do something. The real

problem and the typical to the FA have, where they need to go in the

future is to be transparent about the rules of the game and how they

apply in the context of racism. This thing about having a secret

committee deciding one thing for one individual and another thing

for another is where they fall foul. Do you understand what they're

doing when they come to these two contradictory, variant judgments?

The chairman of the PFA, did often disagree with the treatment of the

players. But there have been time and again I have disagreed with the

FA. They do get a lot of things absolutely right, but on this

occasion I think they have been frightened. As soon as racism

becomes the discussion it becomes delicate. They want is seen to have

some effect and action. I understand that, but dinner left

just as ball by the wayside. Fenebahce de not let. We may find

out that John Derry did ask the question. It that is the case there

is a stain on his character now. He may never get rid of it, and I

don't like to see miscarriages of justice in any position. And as

because it is racism raising its ugly head, I don't think it is an

excuse. So, the most powerful man in Britain doesn't know that the

word Magna is Latin for big or great. David Cameron's decision to

appear on an American chat show didn't do him any favours. And in a

trice he elbowed his own speech to the United Nations off the front

pages and replaced it with proof that when it comes to expensive

education, you don't necessarily get what you pay for.

When was the Magna Carter sign? 1215 on an island in the Thames.

The literal translation? You are testing me. It would be good if you

knew this. Yes it would be. Once the "there but for the grace

of God" guffaws had died down today we thought it might be interesting

to hear what various politicians thought the average Prime Minister

ought to know. But amazingly, despite their willingness to tell

us what to think on any other subject under the sun, most didn't

want to appear to discuss their own level of knowledge. Gosh, they have

busy lives. Sarah Wollaston said: "Humiliation on national TV?

Tempting but I'm dropping my daughter at uni".

Dominic Raab, who has a black belt third dan in Karate claimed he had

to go to ante-natal classes. Nicholas Soames was appalled at the

Prime Minister's ignorance, but gloriously undertaking vital

conservation work in the north of England. Even Michael Fabricant,

owner of Parliament's top hairpiece, claimed to know who'd written Rule

Britannia, but unfortunately had to be at a top-level function in

Glossop. However, two people bold or foolish enough to face the

challenge are here. Patrick Mercer, MP for Newark used to be a soldier

and Ruth Dudley Edwards, is a historian and novelist, although

not an MP Yet! Why do we expect our leaders to be knowledgeable?

think we have got to have a basic level of knowledge of all different

sorts of subjects. It is difficult when you get a new sports minister

appointed, he or she is expected to be an expert in that particular

field. This is different. What is your view? I actually thought when

I heard about it, he was trying to play down being posh and was

pretending not to know. I cannot understand why he wouldn't know

that. He remembered the date. My Latin is terrible, but I don't care.

I want him to understand history, I don't want him to remember dates. I

say that as an historian who does not remember any dates. But to

understand your country and history, not be able to answer stupid

questions. So we expect our leaders understand the country. And a

political leader has to understand political history which is why

Magna Carter matters. I hope he understands Magna Carter, and I

don't give a damn if he remembers dates. I don't think the detail

matters, but the broad sets -- suite of alliances, the

significance between donations and the great movements of history is

important. You say it doesn't matter but it is all on the front

pages? The art is the fault of the hacks. We are here because we are

here. Now I am going to ask you some questions. It you think I am

going to answer any University Challenge questions, I am not.

Don't answer them, suit yourself. We will try. These are set by the

questions editor on University Challenge. They are very relevant.

From what age is it legally permissible for children to drink

alcohol at home or at a friend's house with permission of a parent

or legal clerk -- Guardian? For 14. Actually, it is five. This is in

the citizenship test isn't it? It is full of this stuff. They are

straight out of Tom's head. next one is, since April 30th, 2012,

what is the price of a first-class stamp? 26p. 48. It is 60,

apparently. I got sucked in. plebs would no, I am sure. What was

the last group of people allowed to sit in the House of Commons, Roman

Catholic, Jewish, Jedi Knights were atheists? Re M and Catholics.

Atheists. Which of these languages is most similar to the Persian or

Farr's the language? Arabic, Turkish, English, Azerbaijani,

Hebrew? I am so glad I said I wouldn't answer the questions.

me out on this one, you of the historian. This is done, you are

having fun with us, it is the end of the programme. It does not

matter if David Cameron did not know what Magna Carter actually

meant. The important thing is he understands what it was, what it

stood for and why it is important in our history. And why they get

excited about it in Northern Ireland will stock for the benefit

of the jury's view is, more curious than you are, the answer is English.

Do you think the lesson of history that knowledgeable by ministers are

more effective? A Prime Minister who does not have a knowledge of

history is seriously disadvantaged. Why is that? The don't understand

your country it you don't understand its history.

shouldn't be Prime Minister it the don't have a feel for the

traditions of the history of your country. I speak as an Irish person

who lives here. I hope I understand my country, I hope I understand

this country. Nobody should be Prime Minister without

understanding the roots of the place. This is the point and was

making. It you don't understand the broad sweep of relationships

between countries, relationships between religions, the great events

that have shaped countries, it is Can you understand why somebody

puts themselves to be asked these sorts of silly questions on

television? Have not really, because we had done that tonight!

Because he is trying to sell his country in America. The questions

were foolish, he was not a damned for for going on it. He possibly

thought he would get sensible questions -- a dam to fool. I think

he handled it reasonably sensibly and with humility. Sensible

questions are about the nature of your country. Weekend leave it

there. -- we cannot leave it there. That's all from Newsnight tonight.

The actor Herbert Lom died today, five years short of 100. He was

born in Prague in 1917, as Herbert Karel Angelo Kuchacevic ze

Schluderpacheru. You can see why he changed his name when he came to

Britain. Goodnight. I have never worked with you before. The major

has and he says you have a master brain. He had better be right. You

just worry about your plan because her part of it sounds like

something dreamt up in a booby- Good evening. The weather has been

a lot kinder to us during the day on Thursday. Although we have a

weather front moving south on Friday, it does not look as though

it will give us that much trouble. Although strong gale force winds

blowing across Scotland. Showers in northern England and Scotland. It

will turn cloudy in the south-east and East Anglia after a reasonable

start. That will hopefully clear away from the South West to give us

brighter skies in the afternoon. But it will be a day are scattered

Gales are expected around the Highlands and they will continue

through Friday night and into Saturday morning, but Saturday is

looking like the best day of the weekend. Just a few showers, with a

strong wind in the North East. A lot of fine sunny weather in the