Browse content similar to 11/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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If all the allegations about Sir Jimmy Savile are true, he raped and | :00:13. | :00:19. | |
sexually abused girls across the country for decades. At the BBC, in | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
Children's Hospitals, at Broadmoor, yet he died with his reputation | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
intact. On Newsnight tonight, why did the | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
institutions that could have stopped him, failed to do so. | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
In the studio, people who know the working of the BBC, the tabloids | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
and children's charities. There is news tonight that seven Royal | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
Marines have been arrested on suspicion of murder in Afghanistan. | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
We will be here with the latest. They killed an insurgent on the | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
battlefield, but the military police now believe they should face | :00:49. | :00:59. | |
:00:59. | :01:02. | ||
trial for it. Also tonight: It is a very simple question. What did you | :01:02. | :01:12. | |
:01:12. | :01:29. | ||
say. The question that dogs Andrew Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile, BE, | :01:29. | :01:36. | |
KCSG. The first presenter of Top Of The Pops. For 20 years, the man who | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
made children's dreams come true on Jim'll Fix It. A man believed to | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
have raise personally raised �30- �40 million for charity. He was | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
described as one of the most established showbiz figures and | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
leading charity worker, when he died. The obituary in the Times saw | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
him as an he can tent trick contributor to British life. He | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
could never be pigeonholed, and some said he could be a saint. And | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
an expression of sorrow from the Prince of Wales and others. No-one | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
is saying that now. The flood of allegations about | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
Jimmy Savile's behaviour is now engulfing some of the many | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
institutions he was involved in. The NHS, the care system, and, of | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
course, the BBC, including Newsnight. 13 police forces are now | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
investigating multiple claims of the sexual abuse of children and | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
teenager. Why weren't the victims given greater protection? | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
At Stoke Mandeville hospital in Buckinghamshire, Jimmy Savile | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
roamed at will. He was given a room, and welcomed as a celebrity | :02:48. | :02:56. | |
fundraiser. Sprinkling Stardust and targeting young patients. I was | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
quite taken that we had a popstar patient. Caroline was 13 at the | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
time and being treated for spinal injuries. He bent down and he | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
rammed, that was the only way I can describe it, he rammed his tongue | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
right down my throat. I told my mum and dad, and I told people that I | :03:17. | :03:24. | |
came into contact with. But, nothing. I don't even think my | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
parents took it seriously. Because I was a 13-year-old girl. He was | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
who he was. Or who he was suppose to have been. I don't think they | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
necessarily believed, they never took it seriously. Jimmy Savile | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
volunteered as a night porter at Leeds General Infirmary, sickness | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
and disability were no protection for the patients he abused. | :03:55. | :04:05. | |
:04:05. | :04:05. | ||
started kissing her neck. Running his hands up and down her arms, and | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
then started to molest her. When the nurse eventually came in, | :04:09. | :04:18. | |
because I was hourly observation, I mentioned Jimmy Savile, pointed | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
over to where he was. And I said, if he comes anywhere near me, I'll | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
scream the place down, and yes I would have done. It's emerged that | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
some nursing staff at stoke Mandeville, were aware of the | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
Savile prob -- Stoke Mandeville, were aware of the Savile problem. | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
The nurses weren't happy, they weren't at all enthused about his | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
impending arrival. But there was an air of res in this case, something | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
they had to put -- resignation, something they had to put up with. | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
There was ironic chatter between them about who would be the lucky | :04:53. | :05:03. | |
:05:03. | :05:05. | ||
one to go off with him to his room. And one of them lent over my bed, | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
and said the best thing you can do is stay in bed and pretend to be | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
asleep. The two hospital trusts are helping the police establish how | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
those in their care were let down. They are not alone. The care system | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
designed to protect some of society's most disadvantaged young | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
people is accused, once again, of failing them. Duncroft school in | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
Surrey, is now a block of smart flats. As an approved school in the | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
70s, it housed troubled and very bright teenage girls. Again, Jimmy | :05:36. | :05:43. | |
Savile was welcomed in by staff. represented, in a way, this idea | :05:43. | :05:50. | |
that he was going to be our saviour. In fact, it was completely the | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
antithesis, because what he did was abuse us. The girls were just | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
saying that he never stopped eying up their tits, and how he lined | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
everybody up to kiss them all goodbye. And he stuck his tongue in | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
their mouths and he touched their breasts. And this was common | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
knowledge about him. This was the sort of thing that you knew about | :06:11. | :06:20. | |
him. It wasn't accepted, it was "oh Jimmy Savile's coming". You knew, | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
but you didn't have any power to do anything about it, he still rep | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
presented this idea that he was going to -- represented the idea he | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
was going to give you some hope. Savile would sweep up in his Rolls- | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
Royce, dolling out cigarettes, and offers -- doling out cigarettes and | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
offers to watch his shows being produced. There is nothing in the | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
least unusual about the fact that these victims are coming forward | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
now. But there were complaints about | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
Savile at Duncroft. And in 2007, Surrey Police began investigating. | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
A file was sent to the Crown Prosecution Service, only for the | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
investigation to be dropped through lack of evidence. The now notorious | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
children's home, Haut de la Garenne, in jersey, was also visited by | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
Savile, resulting in further accusation. It wasn't just Surrey | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
Police that investigated Savile, a total of five forces received | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
complaints while he was still alive. So why was he never held to | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
account? This former officer from Thames Valley Police was told by a | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
nurse at Stoke Mandeville that Savile was abusing patients. He | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
took the matter to his superiors, but was rebuffed. I was not | :07:39. | :07:48. | |
believed. No. I think purely because at that stage, and for many, | :07:48. | :07:56. | |
many years, of course, Savile was an icon. When rumours attach | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
themselves to public figures, the media are often the first to get | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
wind of it. It has become clear that happened in this case, and yet | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
newspapers and broadcasters didn't run with the story. Why not? | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
Several former BBC staff have come out to say they were aware of | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
Savile's predatory behaviour, in the 1970s and 1980s. The BBC has | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
announced they will hold an independent inquiry, into who knew | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
what about their fallen star, once the police give the green light. | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
More recent decisions are also under scrutiny. After Savile died, | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
I was part of a Newsnight team that investigated claims of sexual abuse. | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
The allegations centered on Duncroft School in Surrey, but they | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
included Stoke Mandeville hospital, and Television Centre. Newsnight | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
decided not to run the story for editoral reasons. The BBC is under | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
pressure to explain why the story was not broadcast. And whether any | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
influence was brought to bear by senior executives, ahead of the | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
Christmas tribute programmes for Savile. Once senior executives at | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
the BBC knew that there was an investigation into Jimmy Savile, | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
and they could see their Christmas schedules, and they could see | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
celebratory programmes about Jimmy Savile, it is absolutely the first | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
thing you do is, can I see the item, before I do anything else. | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
January, newspapers knew about the Newsnight investigation. But most | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
only took an interest after the ITV documentary into Savile, screened | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
last week. This scandal began with one man, but it doesn't end there. | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
Some of the country's most powerful institutions are having to ask | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
themselves searching and uncomfortable questions. | :09:48. | :09:58. | |
With me, John Brown of the NSPCC, Paul Conew who has worked in senior | :09:58. | :10:06. | |
politicians on papers, Vanessa Feltz, and Kevin Mash. I want to | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
ask you Kevin, the BBC declined to appear in this discussion. As a | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
former editor, you can help us understand how the BBC's decision- | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
making process works. First of all, the suspicion that Newsnight | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
dropped its investigation because of pressure from other bits of the | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
BBC. Also, the bewilderment in many parts that Newsnight didn't go | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
ahead with broadcasting allegations, which, when they turned up on ITV, | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
have had the devastating effect we know about? They are two separate | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
questions. I find it inconceivable that the | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
editor of the programme was pressured by anyone more senior in | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
the BBC not to run the Newsnight investigation. It isn't how the BBC | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
works. The chairman has denied it, the DG has denied it and the editor | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
of the programme has denied it. I see no reason not to believe those | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
denials. I have never had any of that kind of pressure on me as 20 | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
years as an editor in the BBC, to run or not run a story. There is | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
something cucid about BBC editors that if a boss tried to pressure | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
them, they would make sure it would get on air. The BBC is not that | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
sort of organisation, it is hard to understand it from the outside. | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
What about the point f you had Jimmy Savile, with a big Christmas | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
tribute coming up, and a boss saying, I'm not sure about the | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
investigation? It is not how the BBC works, you can get theological | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
about it, dance on the head of the pin, and who knew what, did the DG | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
know, head of television know. Did someone pick up the phone and come | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
around to the editor of this programme's office and say, pull | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
the plug on that investigation, I don't believe that happened. What | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
about the question of editoral judgment, about Newsnight not going | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
ahead with something that ITV eventually did? That is not quite | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
right. Some of the evidence overlaps. Some of the evidence was | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
different. I have no special knowledge of it. I know how the | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
editing process goes on a programme like Newsnight. Clearly the initial | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
investigation was focused in a very narrow area, it was about whether | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
Surrey Police had acted properly that is the kind of journalism that | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
the BBC is there to do, actually. To hold institutions to account, to | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
find, including theself, incidently, which I believe we are doing | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
tonight. To hold institutions to account, and to see if there is any | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
evidence that those institutions haven't act properly. That was the | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
focus of the investigation. Yes it is true, there were other issues | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
around that shregs, but that was the focus -- that investigation, | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
but that was the focus. When the editor of the programme judged that | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
there was a reason for Surrey Police dropping the investigation, | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
that was in his view, adequate. He decided he didn't have, as I | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
understand it, sufficient evidence to run a piece on the own, | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
levelling allegation at Jimmy Savile. We are talking, obviously, | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
about Newsnight investigations, and other investigations, after Jimmy | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
Savile's death. The tabloids, over all the time that Jimmy Savile was | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
a huge star, did they have a whiff of any of this, why didn't they do | :13:17. | :13:26. | |
more? Yes, they did. I did back in 1994, in the Sunday Mirror, we had, | :13:26. | :13:34. | |
we met two former Duncroft girls, separately one came to us through a | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
an intermediary, she managed to help us track down another girl. | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
Both of them alleged they had been assaulted by Jimmy Savile. We | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
actually checked them out, we interviewed them separately, even | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
put trick questions to contradict them, their story of compelling and | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
convincing. The problem was, that they were terrified of Savile, they | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
didn't think they would be believed. They thought it would be the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
catalyst, rather than going into a witness box. In the end they were | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
afraid to go into the witness box. To swear affadavits. There was, | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
much to my frustration, I had to bow to the legal advice that this | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
would be suicidal in terms it of reputation and libel damages. | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
though, it has been the life blood of tabloid newspapers, particularly | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
Sunday's, down the decade, to expose the private lives of | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
celebrities. That is what told papers. The News of the World did | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
great work exposing paedophile, but Jimmy Savile, despite a lot of | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
newspaper people knowing the allegations, got aand we way with | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
it? There were whisper -- who got away with it? There were whispers, | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
I heard them in America back in the 1980s. The occasion in the 1990s | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
was the only occasion I had had two people sitting down and talking | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
about their experiences with him, when they were 14 and 15. At this | :14:57. | :15:07. | |
:15:07. | :15:07. | ||
stage they were well into their 30s. The dunceen to connection raises | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
the own prob -- Duncroft connection raises questions, they were bright | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
girls with troubled background. They were saying, who will believe | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
us. Because, you know, he's friends with the Queen, Princess Diana, in | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
fact, Prince Charles. John Brown of the NSPCC, troubled girls, hard to | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
believe? Absolutely, what we have heard so far about Jimmy Savile is | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
not surprise. It is very typical of sex offender behaviour. Preying on | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
and targeting young, vulnerable girls, maybe who have already | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
experienced problems. Maybe who have already been sexual low abused. | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
That is not untypical. Sexual abuse of children, primarily, is about | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
the abuse of power, coupled with a sexual interest in children. When | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
someone's in a particularly powerful situation and position, | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
it's very easy for them to silence their victims and keep their | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
victims quiet. What about the police, I should say, someone from | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
the Association of Chief police officers was going to join us | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
tonight, but had to pull out at the last minute. Would the police have | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
had the same trouble, if they were coming across statements from | :16:14. | :16:22. | |
"troubled" girls. The threshold for gaining a conviction in this | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
country is high, of course, it is based on reasonable doubt, you need | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
a clear and consistent statement from a victim of child abuse. That | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
can be incredibly difficult when you think about the dynamics of | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
child sexual abuse, where the only witnesses to the coim are the | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
victim themselves and the -- crime are the victims themselves and the | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
abuser, where the abuser has told the victim that if they say | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
anything nobody will believe them. They may be taken into care, their | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
family may be split up. That is terrifying for a child to | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
comprehend. The easiest thing for a child to do keep silent. Even when | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
they are approached by another person in a position of authority, | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
having been told they won't be believed. I would reinforce that, | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
earlier in the News of the World we did a carefully legaled story about | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
Gary glit, which effectively said he was -- Gary glitter, which | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
expectively said he was involved with a 13-year-old girl. We passed | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
the information to the police, over and above the story we were able to | :17:25. | :17:35. | |
:17:35. | :17:37. | ||
publish, pretty strong any way. The police got nowhere with it. Eight | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
years later we know what happened to Gary Glitter and the girl and | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
the case against him. How much did Jimmy Savile's celebrity play in | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
his getting away with it? His fame was incalculable it was so | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
venerated, he was venerated, he was a living saint, raising �40 million | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
for associated charities. Even then there was more Niamhity about it | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
than there is now the public adored him. They felt that you had to pass | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
an examination in goodness to be on the television. If you are on the | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
television you have to be an especially nice person, you there | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
with that lovely Trevor McDonald and Michael Parkinsons, and they | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
must be all nice people. If you met a butcher or social worker or | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
librarian, and they said would you like me to give your 12-year-old | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
daughter a lift home and take them home for lunch, you would say, no. | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
But if it was someone on the television, known to be beatified | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
in his own lifetime, would you say, yes please, thank you very much. | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
have to conclude that in Jimmy Savile's charity work, it was, in | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
many senses, his calm playing jacket to cover the dark -- | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
camouflage jacket to cover the darker side of him. It is not | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
untypical. We have to wait until the investigation under way is | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
concluded to gain as full a picture as we to this case. We know abusers | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
will go to great lengths to target, groom and abuse children. What a | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
better way, to set up a charity, working with children, and having | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
access to children, and able to be alone with them and abuse them. | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
What about the duty of care, we are talking about the various | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
institutions, the BBC, the hospitals and charities too. The | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
duty of care that all of those institutions had to the young | :19:36. | :19:44. | |
people, who, it turns out, were abused? It appears to be an | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
appalling combination of deriliction of duty, even being be | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
dazzled by fame, overawed by the amount of money he was raising | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
Oregan rating by a tremenduously attraction in the audience to keep | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
huge figures and a combination of all those things. One consolation I | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
had, small now though it is, because I feel a sense of guilt and | :20:07. | :20:17. | |
frustration. Do you? Yes, I do. A few years later, my PR man is a | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
working with a well known charity, and working with lots of well- | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
meaning celebrities. A corporate sponsor asked to involve Jimmy | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
Savile to the charity, I privately pointed out what I knew and why we | :20:28. | :20:37. | |
wouldn't be touching him with the proverbial barge pole. We have | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
heard a lot about it being the 70s and a different era. You wonder if | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
there was a modern Jimmy Savile out there, would it be any more | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
difficult for him to operate? don't think we can possibly know. | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
The allegations that we are hearing now, the suffering that these women | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
are telling us about is horrific. It really is horrific. But we do | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
have to think what we knew at the time. What the hard evidence of, | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
for any of the institutions involved, to act upon, and for all | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
sorts of reasons, some of which are quite reprehensible, taking the | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
testimony of vulnerable young women, seriously, totally reprehensible. | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
But an institution can only act on hard evidence, not rumour alone. | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
Although we were all aware of rumour, I was aware of some of the | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
rumours around Jimmy Savile. I hear the rumours from my friend in the | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
tabloid press, rather than people in the BBC. With the popular press, | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
I do hope Lord Justice Leveson is watching the unfolding saga, this | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
is the flip side of the Leveson Inquiry, I would like to see | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
Leveson, as the Mail staid this morning, I don't always agree -- | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
stated this morning, I don't always agree with this, but for Leveson to | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
look at this would be a strong case. The point about the tabloid press | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
and Leveson, while the press was abled to act in an unfettered way, | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
it lauded Savile and built him up into the figure that made him up | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
there. I'm puzzled by the way that why Newsnight didn't carry it. I | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
don't know the reasons for that. I'm sure the women who took part in | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
the Newsnight inquiry, then of course with ITV, must be asking | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
themselves why. Is this still part of the legacy of Savile's power. | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
You can understand how they feel there. But I also feel that we have | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
a situation here, if Levein is too severe in his recommendation, it | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
would make it harder for the press to act. I was trying to find this | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
morning, any evidence that the tabloids were even nodding and | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
winking towards this story over the ten years previous to Savile's | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
death. I could find nothing whatsoever. Quite the opposite, | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
actually, I was seeing this guy being built up by the tabloid press, | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
into the kind of hero figure that made him as untouchable as he was. | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
Finally, want your thoughts on whether thinking about whether | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
Savile could happen again now. Is the legislation appropriate, do we | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
need to look at that again? I say this with a degree of caution. We | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
are in different times now. There has been a whole welter of | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
legislation in the last 40 years, we have had the charge act of 1989. | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
We have had Sir William Puttings report of child protection into res | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
relation children's homes, we have the UN Convention on The rights of | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
a child. The list goes on. We are in different times, public | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
understanding in terms of child abuse, and what makes paedophiles | :23:43. | :23:50. | |
and child abusers operate and the modus operandi. Could it happen | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
again?, yes, because fundamentally the basics about child abuse, the | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
abuse of power, sexuality fundamentals about children are | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
still there, we need on our guard, and encourage children and adults | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
when we have concerns to voice them. Social networking might help too. | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
Thank you all. The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that seven | :24:13. | :24:20. | |
Royal Marines have been arrested on suspicion of murder in Afghanistan. | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
This news has emerged in the last couple of hours. What sort of | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
detail do we have? Very scant. It has only come out less than two | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
hours ago. The MoD has not said where it happened. Or exact low who | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
was involved. We know it happened last -- exactly who was involved. | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
We know it happened last year, there were two major Royal Marine | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
units in Afghanistan at the time 42 Command, and the Special Boat | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
Service, conducting special operations there. It could be one | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
of those two units. They did, however, say, that this is really | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
around the issue of rules of engagment. It may well be that the | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
soldiers did not follow the right procedure, for want of a better | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
word. The MoD said no civilians were involved in the incident. It | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
seems to suggest that these soldiers killed, an insurgent, | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
that's their word, and perhaps they didn't follow the proper rules of | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
engagment. That is due to positively identifying that the | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
person is armed and a threat to you, before opening fire. It may also be | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
something to do with what happened once that person had been captured. | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
We also want to ask you tonight about the seemingly ever increasing | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
tensions between Turkey and Syria? Of course this has always gone up | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
another ratchet because what was happening this time last night. | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
That was an incident involving a Syrian Airbus. | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
The Syrian air flight from Moscow to Damascus, was intercepted last | :25:49. | :25:58. | |
night. Turkish F-16 fighters buzzed the aircraft and ordered it to land | :25:58. | :26:06. | |
to Ankara, the Turkish Government said it was carrying arms. | :26:06. | :26:14. | |
TRANSLATION: This is equipment and munitions sent to the Syrian | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
defence agency by the Russian Government. Syria and Russia have | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
denied the arms smuggling accusation. | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
TRANSLATION: What happened could be described aspirecy, Turkish | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
areopiracy against the civilian Syrian claim on the regular flight | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
to Damascus. Can Turkish troops operating in strength on -- with | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
Turkish troops operating in strength on the border, and | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
authorisation from their parliament to enter Syria. The scene is set | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
for further confrontation. It has brought opposition criticism of the | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
Turkish Government. Now that the Syrian civil war has been dragging | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
on, Turkey finds theself in a very difficult position, unable to | :26:56. | :27:04. | |
influence events in the country. It has also increasingly lost their | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
close ties they enjoyed with the countries in the region, Iraq, | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
China, Iran. Last night's incident adds to the recent shelling along | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
the Turkish-Syrian border, as tensions worsen between the two | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
nations. Polls show many Turk are worried about the Government siding | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
with the Syrian opposition. For those living in the frontier zone, | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
the upsurge in military action has been unwelcome. | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
TRANSLATION: Three days ago, we were working, we were harvesting | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
cotton, a bomb fell here. We all ran. Now fighting continues in | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
these village, it doesn't stop. Bombs are always falling, but we | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
have to stay here for work. Every day, every hour, there is | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
fighting, no-one knows what to do. Listen to that, you can hear the | :27:56. | :28:05. | |
fighting from here. With refugees still escape the ing -- escaping | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
the war by crossing into their country, Turkey can't remain | :28:09. | :28:16. | |
uninvolved. It is hoping to escalate the role to speed the | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
toppling of President Assad. Do we know what was on the plane? Apart | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
from 35 passengers, it would seem, so far, simply normal cargo and | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
luggage. The Turk have had 24 hours to produce evidence for the claims. | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
There have been vague hints about communications equipment or | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
ammunition, nothing has been produced. The longer it goes on, | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
the more the suspicion will be that this was either faulty intelligence | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
that lay behind this, or the desire to provoke some kind of incident. | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
Either way it doesn't set a particularly good tone at the | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
moment when tensions are so high between the two countries, and the | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
risk of further open hostilities between the Syrian and Turkish | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
armed force seem to be very severe. As you know, Syria has been kornd | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
concerned for some time. For months the Republican former presidential | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
candidate, John McCain, has been urging President Obama to arm the | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
rebels in Syria. It doesn't seem the President is listening, but | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
neither is Mitt Romney. First we talk about the diverted Syrian | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
plane. I think it is a symptom of the increasing tensions throughout | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
the region, particularly Turkey and Syria. They have exchanged | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
artillery fire, as you know. Erdogan, the Prime Minister, has | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
gone from a close relationship with Bashar al-Assad, to one of outside | :29:39. | :29:47. | |
empty. There was, already, as you eluded to, trouble on the border, | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
skirmishes, big wars can start from small skirmishes? One of the things | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
from the beginning I was very concerned about, that we have now | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
got Jordan flooded again with refugees, hundreds of thousands, | :30:00. | :30:08. | |
last check was 150,000. There is a million-and-a-half refugees in | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
Syria, several hundred thousand in Turkey, and Lebanon is feeling the | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
strains of it as well. There could be an outbreak either in Lebanon or | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
the Turkish border very easily. could that be stopped? I'm not sure | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
how it could be stopped. I know how it could be prevented from starting. | :30:27. | :30:34. | |
That is, a long time ago we should have supplied arms and equipment to | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
the Syrians resisting Bashar al- Assad. What do you understand, Mitt | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
Romney's position, on the arming the opposition to be? | :30:42. | :30:49. | |
understanding of his position is he wants a ply of arms, into -- a | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
supply of arms into those resisting. Whether he's not reached the point | :30:54. | :31:02. | |
where it is direct supply of American arms. Facilitating arms | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
into Syria. I would like to see him say more. I hope maybe I can | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
convince him over time. He's your man, he's on the rise after that | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
debate, you are fundraising for him tonight in London. Why, when you | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
talk to him, why isn't he persuaded about your point of view? I think | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
he's persuaded by the point of view that they need arms to have a fair | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
fight. You have the Iranians on the ground bringing weapons, the | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
Russians bringing weapons in. I don't think he's quite ready to go | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
the next step. Are you saying he would find it impossible to be | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
elected f he explained to the American people, if his view before | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
the election of that America needed to arm the opposition? I don't | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
think in this environment that it would be very easy for him to | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
explain to the American people. Obviously, there would be the | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
counter-attack, that he's unqualified, inexperienced, all of | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
those things. In part of his public statements on this, he says he | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
wants to work with partners to identify and organise those members | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
of the opposition who share our values? How on earth do you idea | :32:14. | :32:22. | |
foi them? It is very difficult. Because, as I say, now 17, 18 | :32:22. | :32:29. | |
months later, we have seen this inflow of Jihadists, we always fish | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
in troubled waters. That is the nature of Al-Qaeda, it argues, in | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
my view, for us to have taken action earlier and more vigorously. | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
Turning to the vice-presidential debate tonight, what are your | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
thoughts? I think it will be very interesting, you have two different | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
personalities here. If there was ever a clash in personalities, it | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
certainly is there. Obviously as a Republican I | :32:53. | :33:03. | |
anticipate that Paul R -- Ryan, he will do well, he uns the issue, and | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
how well will he do it. The danger he has is saying something that | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
Americans would be asking what he are talk about. I don't think he | :33:13. | :33:19. | |
will do that, he's well rehearsed. A lot of the criticism from | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
democrats about the President's performance is less about the | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
detail, and more on the fact that he didn't appear to be in the room. | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
He didn't appear to want to be there. Do you reflect if you had | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
had been debating that guy, things might have been different? In 2008, | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
the President did very well in the debates against me. Maybe that is a | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
commentary on my all lents. As, the President didn't have a record to | :33:46. | :33:52. | |
defend at that time. It was hope and change, now it is despair and | :33:52. | :33:59. | |
danger. That is a pretty good line. I think the President has had | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
difficulty in defending his record. One of the seminal moment was when | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
the moderator said, what about working together, and Romney talked | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
about being Governor of Massachusetts, working with | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
Democrats, what did the President say? He said sometimes you have to | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
say no to people. If there's one thing the American people want, and | :34:20. | :34:28. | |
I'm stopped in the street by people, say work together and avert this | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
physical cliff. That was one of the moments in the debate. | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
Thank you. It's good to be back with you. | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
Andrew Mitchell is still in his job as the Conservative Party's Chief | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
Whip, responsible for maintaining party discipline. He survived | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
coverage of his Downing Street encounter with police. He survived | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
the slings and arrows of the party conference, though he judged it | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
best not to turn up for his own. Could he still be on his way out. | :34:56. | :35:04. | |
Tomorrow's Telegraph is demanding he should go. It is the kind of | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
prime time exposure any politician would die for. We don't know if the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
Chief Whip watched BBC One on Friday night. If he did, he | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
probably wasn't laughing. Victoria asked me if I could give her any | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
tips, said, of course I can Moy dear. Now, look, if the BBC | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
security man asks you to get off your bike and come in through the | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
side gate. Whatever you do, don't call him a pleb. | :35:31. | :35:37. | |
Now, in this long-running series, it could soon be crunch time for | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
Andrew Mitchell. He has the dance floor to himself, and three members | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
of the Police Federation in the judges' chairs. Mr Mitchell will | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
sit down with those police representatives here at his local | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
constituency office n what is called a "clear the air" meeting. | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
Get this one right and he might be ablable to draw a line under the | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
affair. Use his rag now, and his political future might not look too | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
healthy. This is the row that refuses to die down, it all started | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
three week ago, when a clearly angry Chief Whip, let loose at | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
policemaning the Downing Street security gates, as he left on his | :36:17. | :36:25. | |
bicycle. The official police log claims he uses the world BEEP plebs. | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
It was the end of a long and extremely frustrating day, not that | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
is an excuse for what happened. I didn't show the police the amount | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
of respect I should have done. We should all respect them, they do an | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
incredibly difficult job. I have apologised to the Police and the | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
police officer involved on the gate. He has accepted my apology. And I | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
hope very much we can draw a line under it there. | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
Not much chance of that. He was forced to stay away from his own | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
party conference last week. Local police, though, did turn up, | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
wearing pleb-themed T-shirts. Despite the policemen involved | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
accepting his apology. Many other young rank and file officers remain | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
upset. Their anger now seems to be shifting, away from any words he | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
might have used, to a Mo tensionly more damaging allegation -- a | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
potentially more damaging allegation. And he seems to be | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
protecting those lying. This is one of the lead judges? It is a simple | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
question, what did you say, and that is what we want to know. If he | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
did say the words he can apologise again, the offices have accepted | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
the apology any way. That is not where we are at now. We are not | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
really that bothered about the words. The issue is honesty and | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
integrity, and who is telling the truth here. The Conservative Party, | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
meanwhile, will be hoping the public will start to get tired of | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
the row. When member of the Government told Newsnight, that out | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
of his 80,000 constituency, he has received one e-mail about it. The | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
public aren't interested. He has apologised, it has been accepted, | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
it is time to move on. Even the police admit there is another | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
agenda here though. Any criticism of Mr Mitchell feeds into wider | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
anger about cuts to police budgets. Cuts many officers feel are unfair. | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
This thing would have blown over if he had answered all the questions | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
in the first place. That is what would have happened. You know. But, | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
again, I would bring it back to the fact that the attitude of Mr | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
Mitchell, may be reflective of the general attitude of the | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
Conservative Party towards police and police officers. Mr Mitchell's | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
position, does now seem to be under serious pressure. Several Tory MPs | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
are said to have written to the chairman of the backbench 1922 | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
Committee, asking why he's still in a job. Like Strictly, it is not | :38:54. | :39:03. | |
just the judges' vote that counts, it is the public's vote too. Are | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
the police right to pursue it? is water under the bridge, they | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
should let it go. I think this one is not a big issue what he is | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
supposed to have called them. would you like to be called a pleb? | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
Sfrpblgt I would brush it off. I could be called a lot worse. As a | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
position of power in the police, it is disrespectful, and soen. They | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
have a right to pursue it if their case is valid. If I'm asked whether | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
or not he can survive, I think he can. | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
I doubt if the police will come out and say, suddenly, they are | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
complete lie satisfied with the situation. They will clearly have | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
an attempt to keep it all going. At the end of the day, I think he he | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
can survive, it is a clearly a difficult situation for him. It | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
could all come down to one performance for Mr Mitchell | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
tomorrow. A poor showing and he might have a lot more time on his | :39:57. | :40:05. | |
hands, for Friday night TV? And old Brucie's gags. | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
Ever since Barack Obama became the first black President of the US. | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
People have discussed what affect his election would have on black | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
people in America. As he fights for a second term, we decided there is | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
no better person to hear about from a man who is the Poet Laureate of | :40:21. | :40:29. | |
the ghetto, soul singer, Bobby Womack. | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
Most people go down, I'm going up. It is just taking the guitar, and | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
turning it upside down, and making all the chords backwards. Does | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
anyone else do that, that you know of? No to. | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
# Stop and take # A real good listen | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
Bobby Womack has been singing and writing songs since he pinched his | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
dad's guitar and taught himself to play. | :41:00. | :41:09. | |
As unorthodox in his way, as one- time band mate, Jimi Hendrix. | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
Jimmy just was different. Than anybody, when I say R & B, they had | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
never seen a Jimi Hendrix. To them, for a I go that would be playing | :41:20. | :41:27. | |
and then take -- a guy that would be playing and then take it off and | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
light it guitar. He had had to put it out real quick because it look | :41:32. | :41:39. | |
like a piece of burnt barbecue. They are all great, and a lot late. | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
Womack is the survivor who has outlived most of the stars he has | :41:42. | :41:52. | |
:41:52. | :41:55. | ||
written for or played with. Most, though not all. | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
Womack was persuaded by his friend Sam Cooke, to let the Rolling | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
Stones cover this song .Le # I used to love her | :42:03. | :42:11. | |
# Well it's all over now. He said one day you will be part of | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
history. Group is going to be huge. I said why don't they get their own | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
songs. We became friends. played with them, didn't you. You | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
toured with him? Two or three tour. Everyone has a bit of a down on | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
banks at the moment. I was reading in your book, that you used to keep | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
your money in your shoe. Do you think we were better off when we | :42:32. | :42:40. | |
kept our money in our shoes? If you had as small an amount as I stkp, | :42:40. | :42:46. | |
unless you were you were -- z unless you were a huge shoe. I went | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
to Wilson Pickett's house, and he said, look in the closet, it was | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
stacked to money all up to the top. I have never seen that amount of | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
money. I said man, are you crazy, why not put it in the bank and you | :42:58. | :43:06. | |
can draw off the interest. He said, no, I can't go asleep and then | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
somebody steal my money. He was serious about that. I thought I | :43:10. | :43:17. | |
wouldn't put mine in the bank either. | :43:17. | :43:26. | |
When you count the Presidents we had before Obama showed up. It was | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
telling me. 50 years ago, he said bobby we have a black President I | :43:31. | :43:41. | |
want to see that. I knew he was drinking gin, I said, he said he | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
was serious. What do you think of Obama? Trying | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
to clean up the mess he has stepped into, he has done all he could do. | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
You have to understand politic is politic. You know. He has to take | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
care, each situation is a bad day. People think, four years to change | :44:00. | :44:08. | |
it all right away. It takes four years to mess it up. | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
Quentin Tarantino, borrowed the tune, Across 110th Street for the | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
movie Jackie Brown, it was originally written about life in | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
Harlem and New York. We don't hear about the ghetto at the moment for | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
some reason, has it got better? is still the ghetto, nobody focus | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
on it. I'm talking about Presidents, withstand FA bee President, talking | :44:32. | :44:40. | |
about the middle class -- wannabe President talking about the middle- | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
class. They never mentioned the poor people. They don't care. Even | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
if they all came together, they have to take care of them. | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
Bobby Womack has a new record out, on a British label, featuring | :44:56. | :45:06. | |
:45:06. | :45:08. | ||
rising star, Lana Del Rey. # Everything is everythingle | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
The singer has been clean for more than 20 years. After brushes with | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
drugs, booze, firearms, marriage break-up, and premature death, does | :45:17. | :45:25. | |
he have any regrets. Sometimes I do regret. But I keep | :45:25. | :45:33. | |
thinking if I wasn't high maybe my life wouldn't have lasted for the | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
better. I think certain things I did, I shouldn't have got married, | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
or, you know, as soon as I got married the woman started playing, | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
not just with my head, but my head. When your heart says, let's stop | :45:46. | :45:54. | |
here. You have no choice. Your heart or other organs?! # I'm not | :45:54. | :46:04. | |
:46:04. | :46:04. | ||
just a President of loveful An absolute legend. Shall we put | :46:04. | :46:14. | |
:46:14. | :46:17. | ||
the day out of the mystery, why the day out of the mystery, why | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
not? Good night. There is a potential core of | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
intense wet weather to continuing across north eastern Scotland, the | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
warnings are in force, the intensity of the rain 80mms before | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
the system clears through. A case of sunny spells and shattered | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
showers. The brighter yellows and greens denoting heavier pulses. | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
Cloudy skies generally in Scotland, once we get into the borders across | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
England, prominently dry and sunny. Showers should be few and far | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
between. We keep the showers clinging on to the south coast for | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
a time. Highs of 13 degrees. It is a case of sunny spells and light | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
showers. It won't be long before the showers waiting in the wings in | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
the south west and South Wales during Friday evening. | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
Enjoy the sunshine while I have you have it. A better day for the Isle | :47:08. | :47:11. |