11/10/2012 Newsnight


11/10/2012

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If all the allegations about Sir Jimmy Savile are true, he raped and

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sexually abused girls across the country for decades. At the BBC, in

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Children's Hospitals, at Broadmoor, yet he died with his reputation

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intact. On Newsnight tonight, why did the

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institutions that could have stopped him, failed to do so.

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In the studio, people who know the working of the BBC, the tabloids

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and children's charities. There is news tonight that seven Royal

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Marines have been arrested on suspicion of murder in Afghanistan.

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We will be here with the latest. They killed an insurgent on the

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battlefield, but the military police now believe they should face

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:00:59.:01:02.

trial for it. Also tonight: It is a very simple question. What did you

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say. The question that dogs Andrew Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile, BE,

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KCSG. The first presenter of Top Of The Pops. For 20 years, the man who

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made children's dreams come true on Jim'll Fix It. A man believed to

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have raise personally raised �30- �40 million for charity. He was

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described as one of the most established showbiz figures and

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leading charity worker, when he died. The obituary in the Times saw

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him as an he can tent trick contributor to British life. He

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could never be pigeonholed, and some said he could be a saint. And

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an expression of sorrow from the Prince of Wales and others. No-one

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is saying that now. The flood of allegations about

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Jimmy Savile's behaviour is now engulfing some of the many

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institutions he was involved in. The NHS, the care system, and, of

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course, the BBC, including Newsnight. 13 police forces are now

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investigating multiple claims of the sexual abuse of children and

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teenager. Why weren't the victims given greater protection?

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At Stoke Mandeville hospital in Buckinghamshire, Jimmy Savile

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roamed at will. He was given a room, and welcomed as a celebrity

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fundraiser. Sprinkling Stardust and targeting young patients. I was

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quite taken that we had a popstar patient. Caroline was 13 at the

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time and being treated for spinal injuries. He bent down and he

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rammed, that was the only way I can describe it, he rammed his tongue

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right down my throat. I told my mum and dad, and I told people that I

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came into contact with. But, nothing. I don't even think my

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parents took it seriously. Because I was a 13-year-old girl. He was

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who he was. Or who he was suppose to have been. I don't think they

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necessarily believed, they never took it seriously. Jimmy Savile

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volunteered as a night porter at Leeds General Infirmary, sickness

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and disability were no protection for the patients he abused.

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started kissing her neck. Running his hands up and down her arms, and

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then started to molest her. When the nurse eventually came in,

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because I was hourly observation, I mentioned Jimmy Savile, pointed

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over to where he was. And I said, if he comes anywhere near me, I'll

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scream the place down, and yes I would have done. It's emerged that

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some nursing staff at stoke Mandeville, were aware of the

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Savile prob -- Stoke Mandeville, were aware of the Savile problem.

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The nurses weren't happy, they weren't at all enthused about his

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impending arrival. But there was an air of res in this case, something

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they had to put -- resignation, something they had to put up with.

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There was ironic chatter between them about who would be the lucky

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one to go off with him to his room. And one of them lent over my bed,

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and said the best thing you can do is stay in bed and pretend to be

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asleep. The two hospital trusts are helping the police establish how

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those in their care were let down. They are not alone. The care system

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designed to protect some of society's most disadvantaged young

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people is accused, once again, of failing them. Duncroft school in

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Surrey, is now a block of smart flats. As an approved school in the

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70s, it housed troubled and very bright teenage girls. Again, Jimmy

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Savile was welcomed in by staff. represented, in a way, this idea

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that he was going to be our saviour. In fact, it was completely the

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antithesis, because what he did was abuse us. The girls were just

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saying that he never stopped eying up their tits, and how he lined

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everybody up to kiss them all goodbye. And he stuck his tongue in

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their mouths and he touched their breasts. And this was common

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knowledge about him. This was the sort of thing that you knew about

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him. It wasn't accepted, it was "oh Jimmy Savile's coming". You knew,

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but you didn't have any power to do anything about it, he still rep

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presented this idea that he was going to -- represented the idea he

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was going to give you some hope. Savile would sweep up in his Rolls-

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Royce, dolling out cigarettes, and offers -- doling out cigarettes and

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offers to watch his shows being produced. There is nothing in the

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least unusual about the fact that these victims are coming forward

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now. But there were complaints about

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Savile at Duncroft. And in 2007, Surrey Police began investigating.

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A file was sent to the Crown Prosecution Service, only for the

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investigation to be dropped through lack of evidence. The now notorious

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children's home, Haut de la Garenne, in jersey, was also visited by

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Savile, resulting in further accusation. It wasn't just Surrey

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Police that investigated Savile, a total of five forces received

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complaints while he was still alive. So why was he never held to

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account? This former officer from Thames Valley Police was told by a

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nurse at Stoke Mandeville that Savile was abusing patients. He

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took the matter to his superiors, but was rebuffed. I was not

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believed. No. I think purely because at that stage, and for many,

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many years, of course, Savile was an icon. When rumours attach

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themselves to public figures, the media are often the first to get

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wind of it. It has become clear that happened in this case, and yet

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newspapers and broadcasters didn't run with the story. Why not?

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Several former BBC staff have come out to say they were aware of

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Savile's predatory behaviour, in the 1970s and 1980s. The BBC has

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announced they will hold an independent inquiry, into who knew

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what about their fallen star, once the police give the green light.

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More recent decisions are also under scrutiny. After Savile died,

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I was part of a Newsnight team that investigated claims of sexual abuse.

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The allegations centered on Duncroft School in Surrey, but they

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included Stoke Mandeville hospital, and Television Centre. Newsnight

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decided not to run the story for editoral reasons. The BBC is under

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pressure to explain why the story was not broadcast. And whether any

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influence was brought to bear by senior executives, ahead of the

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Christmas tribute programmes for Savile. Once senior executives at

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the BBC knew that there was an investigation into Jimmy Savile,

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and they could see their Christmas schedules, and they could see

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celebratory programmes about Jimmy Savile, it is absolutely the first

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thing you do is, can I see the item, before I do anything else.

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January, newspapers knew about the Newsnight investigation. But most

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only took an interest after the ITV documentary into Savile, screened

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last week. This scandal began with one man, but it doesn't end there.

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Some of the country's most powerful institutions are having to ask

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themselves searching and uncomfortable questions.

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With me, John Brown of the NSPCC, Paul Conew who has worked in senior

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politicians on papers, Vanessa Feltz, and Kevin Mash. I want to

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ask you Kevin, the BBC declined to appear in this discussion. As a

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former editor, you can help us understand how the BBC's decision-

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making process works. First of all, the suspicion that Newsnight

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dropped its investigation because of pressure from other bits of the

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BBC. Also, the bewilderment in many parts that Newsnight didn't go

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ahead with broadcasting allegations, which, when they turned up on ITV,

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have had the devastating effect we know about? They are two separate

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questions. I find it inconceivable that the

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editor of the programme was pressured by anyone more senior in

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the BBC not to run the Newsnight investigation. It isn't how the BBC

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works. The chairman has denied it, the DG has denied it and the editor

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of the programme has denied it. I see no reason not to believe those

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denials. I have never had any of that kind of pressure on me as 20

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years as an editor in the BBC, to run or not run a story. There is

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something cucid about BBC editors that if a boss tried to pressure

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them, they would make sure it would get on air. The BBC is not that

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sort of organisation, it is hard to understand it from the outside.

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What about the point f you had Jimmy Savile, with a big Christmas

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tribute coming up, and a boss saying, I'm not sure about the

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investigation? It is not how the BBC works, you can get theological

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about it, dance on the head of the pin, and who knew what, did the DG

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know, head of television know. Did someone pick up the phone and come

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around to the editor of this programme's office and say, pull

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the plug on that investigation, I don't believe that happened. What

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about the question of editoral judgment, about Newsnight not going

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ahead with something that ITV eventually did? That is not quite

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right. Some of the evidence overlaps. Some of the evidence was

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different. I have no special knowledge of it. I know how the

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editing process goes on a programme like Newsnight. Clearly the initial

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investigation was focused in a very narrow area, it was about whether

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Surrey Police had acted properly that is the kind of journalism that

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the BBC is there to do, actually. To hold institutions to account, to

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find, including theself, incidently, which I believe we are doing

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tonight. To hold institutions to account, and to see if there is any

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evidence that those institutions haven't act properly. That was the

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focus of the investigation. Yes it is true, there were other issues

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around that shregs, but that was the focus -- that investigation,

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but that was the focus. When the editor of the programme judged that

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there was a reason for Surrey Police dropping the investigation,

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that was in his view, adequate. He decided he didn't have, as I

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understand it, sufficient evidence to run a piece on the own,

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levelling allegation at Jimmy Savile. We are talking, obviously,

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about Newsnight investigations, and other investigations, after Jimmy

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Savile's death. The tabloids, over all the time that Jimmy Savile was

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a huge star, did they have a whiff of any of this, why didn't they do

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more? Yes, they did. I did back in 1994, in the Sunday Mirror, we had,

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we met two former Duncroft girls, separately one came to us through a

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an intermediary, she managed to help us track down another girl.

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Both of them alleged they had been assaulted by Jimmy Savile. We

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actually checked them out, we interviewed them separately, even

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put trick questions to contradict them, their story of compelling and

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convincing. The problem was, that they were terrified of Savile, they

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didn't think they would be believed. They thought it would be the

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catalyst, rather than going into a witness box. In the end they were

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afraid to go into the witness box. To swear affadavits. There was,

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much to my frustration, I had to bow to the legal advice that this

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would be suicidal in terms it of reputation and libel damages.

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though, it has been the life blood of tabloid newspapers, particularly

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Sunday's, down the decade, to expose the private lives of

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celebrities. That is what told papers. The News of the World did

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great work exposing paedophile, but Jimmy Savile, despite a lot of

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newspaper people knowing the allegations, got aand we way with

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it? There were whisper -- who got away with it? There were whispers,

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I heard them in America back in the 1980s. The occasion in the 1990s

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was the only occasion I had had two people sitting down and talking

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about their experiences with him, when they were 14 and 15. At this

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stage they were well into their 30s. The dunceen to connection raises

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the own prob -- Duncroft connection raises questions, they were bright

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girls with troubled background. They were saying, who will believe

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us. Because, you know, he's friends with the Queen, Princess Diana, in

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fact, Prince Charles. John Brown of the NSPCC, troubled girls, hard to

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believe? Absolutely, what we have heard so far about Jimmy Savile is

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not surprise. It is very typical of sex offender behaviour. Preying on

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and targeting young, vulnerable girls, maybe who have already

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experienced problems. Maybe who have already been sexual low abused.

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That is not untypical. Sexual abuse of children, primarily, is about

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the abuse of power, coupled with a sexual interest in children. When

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someone's in a particularly powerful situation and position,

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it's very easy for them to silence their victims and keep their

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victims quiet. What about the police, I should say, someone from

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the Association of Chief police officers was going to join us

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tonight, but had to pull out at the last minute. Would the police have

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had the same trouble, if they were coming across statements from

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"troubled" girls. The threshold for gaining a conviction in this

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country is high, of course, it is based on reasonable doubt, you need

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a clear and consistent statement from a victim of child abuse. That

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can be incredibly difficult when you think about the dynamics of

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child sexual abuse, where the only witnesses to the coim are the

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victim themselves and the -- crime are the victims themselves and the

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abuser, where the abuser has told the victim that if they say

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anything nobody will believe them. They may be taken into care, their

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family may be split up. That is terrifying for a child to

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comprehend. The easiest thing for a child to do keep silent. Even when

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they are approached by another person in a position of authority,

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having been told they won't be believed. I would reinforce that,

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earlier in the News of the World we did a carefully legaled story about

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Gary glit, which effectively said he was -- Gary glitter, which

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expectively said he was involved with a 13-year-old girl. We passed

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the information to the police, over and above the story we were able to

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publish, pretty strong any way. The police got nowhere with it. Eight

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years later we know what happened to Gary Glitter and the girl and

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the case against him. How much did Jimmy Savile's celebrity play in

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his getting away with it? His fame was incalculable it was so

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venerated, he was venerated, he was a living saint, raising �40 million

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for associated charities. Even then there was more Niamhity about it

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than there is now the public adored him. They felt that you had to pass

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an examination in goodness to be on the television. If you are on the

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television you have to be an especially nice person, you there

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with that lovely Trevor McDonald and Michael Parkinsons, and they

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must be all nice people. If you met a butcher or social worker or

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librarian, and they said would you like me to give your 12-year-old

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daughter a lift home and take them home for lunch, you would say, no.

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But if it was someone on the television, known to be beatified

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in his own lifetime, would you say, yes please, thank you very much.

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have to conclude that in Jimmy Savile's charity work, it was, in

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many senses, his calm playing jacket to cover the dark --

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camouflage jacket to cover the darker side of him. It is not

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untypical. We have to wait until the investigation under way is

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concluded to gain as full a picture as we to this case. We know abusers

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will go to great lengths to target, groom and abuse children. What a

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better way, to set up a charity, working with children, and having

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access to children, and able to be alone with them and abuse them.

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What about the duty of care, we are talking about the various

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institutions, the BBC, the hospitals and charities too. The

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duty of care that all of those institutions had to the young

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people, who, it turns out, were abused? It appears to be an

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appalling combination of deriliction of duty, even being be

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dazzled by fame, overawed by the amount of money he was raising

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Oregan rating by a tremenduously attraction in the audience to keep

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huge figures and a combination of all those things. One consolation I

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had, small now though it is, because I feel a sense of guilt and

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frustration. Do you? Yes, I do. A few years later, my PR man is a

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working with a well known charity, and working with lots of well-

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meaning celebrities. A corporate sponsor asked to involve Jimmy

:20:25.:20:28.

Savile to the charity, I privately pointed out what I knew and why we

:20:28.:20:37.

wouldn't be touching him with the proverbial barge pole. We have

:20:37.:20:42.

heard a lot about it being the 70s and a different era. You wonder if

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there was a modern Jimmy Savile out there, would it be any more

:20:44.:20:49.

difficult for him to operate? don't think we can possibly know.

:20:49.:20:53.

The allegations that we are hearing now, the suffering that these women

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are telling us about is horrific. It really is horrific. But we do

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have to think what we knew at the time. What the hard evidence of,

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for any of the institutions involved, to act upon, and for all

:21:03.:21:08.

sorts of reasons, some of which are quite reprehensible, taking the

:21:08.:21:13.

testimony of vulnerable young women, seriously, totally reprehensible.

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But an institution can only act on hard evidence, not rumour alone.

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Although we were all aware of rumour, I was aware of some of the

:21:22.:21:25.

rumours around Jimmy Savile. I hear the rumours from my friend in the

:21:25.:21:30.

tabloid press, rather than people in the BBC. With the popular press,

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I do hope Lord Justice Leveson is watching the unfolding saga, this

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is the flip side of the Leveson Inquiry, I would like to see

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Leveson, as the Mail staid this morning, I don't always agree --

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stated this morning, I don't always agree with this, but for Leveson to

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look at this would be a strong case. The point about the tabloid press

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and Leveson, while the press was abled to act in an unfettered way,

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it lauded Savile and built him up into the figure that made him up

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there. I'm puzzled by the way that why Newsnight didn't carry it. I

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don't know the reasons for that. I'm sure the women who took part in

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the Newsnight inquiry, then of course with ITV, must be asking

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themselves why. Is this still part of the legacy of Savile's power.

:22:24.:22:31.

You can understand how they feel there. But I also feel that we have

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a situation here, if Levein is too severe in his recommendation, it

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would make it harder for the press to act. I was trying to find this

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morning, any evidence that the tabloids were even nodding and

:22:47.:22:50.

winking towards this story over the ten years previous to Savile's

:22:50.:22:54.

death. I could find nothing whatsoever. Quite the opposite,

:22:54.:22:59.

actually, I was seeing this guy being built up by the tabloid press,

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into the kind of hero figure that made him as untouchable as he was.

:23:04.:23:08.

Finally, want your thoughts on whether thinking about whether

:23:08.:23:12.

Savile could happen again now. Is the legislation appropriate, do we

:23:12.:23:16.

need to look at that again? I say this with a degree of caution. We

:23:16.:23:20.

are in different times now. There has been a whole welter of

:23:20.:23:25.

legislation in the last 40 years, we have had the charge act of 1989.

:23:25.:23:31.

We have had Sir William Puttings report of child protection into res

:23:31.:23:34.

relation children's homes, we have the UN Convention on The rights of

:23:34.:23:39.

a child. The list goes on. We are in different times, public

:23:39.:23:43.

understanding in terms of child abuse, and what makes paedophiles

:23:43.:23:50.

and child abusers operate and the modus operandi. Could it happen

:23:50.:23:54.

again?, yes, because fundamentally the basics about child abuse, the

:23:54.:23:59.

abuse of power, sexuality fundamentals about children are

:23:59.:24:04.

still there, we need on our guard, and encourage children and adults

:24:04.:24:08.

when we have concerns to voice them. Social networking might help too.

:24:08.:24:12.

Thank you all. The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that seven

:24:13.:24:20.

Royal Marines have been arrested on suspicion of murder in Afghanistan.

:24:20.:24:24.

This news has emerged in the last couple of hours. What sort of

:24:24.:24:27.

detail do we have? Very scant. It has only come out less than two

:24:28.:24:33.

hours ago. The MoD has not said where it happened. Or exact low who

:24:33.:24:36.

was involved. We know it happened last -- exactly who was involved.

:24:36.:24:41.

We know it happened last year, there were two major Royal Marine

:24:41.:24:46.

units in Afghanistan at the time 42 Command, and the Special Boat

:24:46.:24:48.

Service, conducting special operations there. It could be one

:24:48.:24:53.

of those two units. They did, however, say, that this is really

:24:53.:24:57.

around the issue of rules of engagment. It may well be that the

:24:57.:25:01.

soldiers did not follow the right procedure, for want of a better

:25:01.:25:04.

word. The MoD said no civilians were involved in the incident. It

:25:04.:25:08.

seems to suggest that these soldiers killed, an insurgent,

:25:08.:25:12.

that's their word, and perhaps they didn't follow the proper rules of

:25:12.:25:15.

engagment. That is due to positively identifying that the

:25:15.:25:20.

person is armed and a threat to you, before opening fire. It may also be

:25:20.:25:23.

something to do with what happened once that person had been captured.

:25:23.:25:28.

We also want to ask you tonight about the seemingly ever increasing

:25:28.:25:33.

tensions between Turkey and Syria? Of course this has always gone up

:25:33.:25:36.

another ratchet because what was happening this time last night.

:25:36.:25:42.

That was an incident involving a Syrian Airbus.

:25:43.:25:49.

The Syrian air flight from Moscow to Damascus, was intercepted last

:25:49.:25:58.

night. Turkish F-16 fighters buzzed the aircraft and ordered it to land

:25:58.:26:06.

to Ankara, the Turkish Government said it was carrying arms.

:26:06.:26:14.

TRANSLATION: This is equipment and munitions sent to the Syrian

:26:14.:26:18.

defence agency by the Russian Government. Syria and Russia have

:26:18.:26:22.

denied the arms smuggling accusation.

:26:22.:26:27.

TRANSLATION: What happened could be described aspirecy, Turkish

:26:27.:26:32.

areopiracy against the civilian Syrian claim on the regular flight

:26:32.:26:36.

to Damascus. Can Turkish troops operating in strength on -- with

:26:36.:26:39.

Turkish troops operating in strength on the border, and

:26:39.:26:42.

authorisation from their parliament to enter Syria. The scene is set

:26:42.:26:46.

for further confrontation. It has brought opposition criticism of the

:26:46.:26:50.

Turkish Government. Now that the Syrian civil war has been dragging

:26:50.:26:56.

on, Turkey finds theself in a very difficult position, unable to

:26:56.:27:04.

influence events in the country. It has also increasingly lost their

:27:04.:27:10.

close ties they enjoyed with the countries in the region, Iraq,

:27:10.:27:16.

China, Iran. Last night's incident adds to the recent shelling along

:27:16.:27:20.

the Turkish-Syrian border, as tensions worsen between the two

:27:20.:27:24.

nations. Polls show many Turk are worried about the Government siding

:27:24.:27:28.

with the Syrian opposition. For those living in the frontier zone,

:27:29.:27:33.

the upsurge in military action has been unwelcome.

:27:33.:27:36.

TRANSLATION: Three days ago, we were working, we were harvesting

:27:36.:27:40.

cotton, a bomb fell here. We all ran. Now fighting continues in

:27:40.:27:43.

these village, it doesn't stop. Bombs are always falling, but we

:27:44.:27:50.

have to stay here for work. Every day, every hour, there is

:27:50.:27:56.

fighting, no-one knows what to do. Listen to that, you can hear the

:27:56.:28:05.

fighting from here. With refugees still escape the ing -- escaping

:28:05.:28:09.

the war by crossing into their country, Turkey can't remain

:28:09.:28:16.

uninvolved. It is hoping to escalate the role to speed the

:28:17.:28:20.

toppling of President Assad. Do we know what was on the plane? Apart

:28:20.:28:26.

from 35 passengers, it would seem, so far, simply normal cargo and

:28:26.:28:30.

luggage. The Turk have had 24 hours to produce evidence for the claims.

:28:30.:28:33.

There have been vague hints about communications equipment or

:28:33.:28:36.

ammunition, nothing has been produced. The longer it goes on,

:28:36.:28:39.

the more the suspicion will be that this was either faulty intelligence

:28:39.:28:44.

that lay behind this, or the desire to provoke some kind of incident.

:28:44.:28:49.

Either way it doesn't set a particularly good tone at the

:28:49.:28:52.

moment when tensions are so high between the two countries, and the

:28:52.:28:57.

risk of further open hostilities between the Syrian and Turkish

:28:57.:29:01.

armed force seem to be very severe. As you know, Syria has been kornd

:29:01.:29:06.

concerned for some time. For months the Republican former presidential

:29:06.:29:11.

candidate, John McCain, has been urging President Obama to arm the

:29:11.:29:15.

rebels in Syria. It doesn't seem the President is listening, but

:29:15.:29:20.

neither is Mitt Romney. First we talk about the diverted Syrian

:29:20.:29:24.

plane. I think it is a symptom of the increasing tensions throughout

:29:24.:29:29.

the region, particularly Turkey and Syria. They have exchanged

:29:29.:29:34.

artillery fire, as you know. Erdogan, the Prime Minister, has

:29:34.:29:39.

gone from a close relationship with Bashar al-Assad, to one of outside

:29:39.:29:47.

empty. There was, already, as you eluded to, trouble on the border,

:29:47.:29:51.

skirmishes, big wars can start from small skirmishes? One of the things

:29:51.:29:56.

from the beginning I was very concerned about, that we have now

:29:56.:30:00.

got Jordan flooded again with refugees, hundreds of thousands,

:30:00.:30:08.

last check was 150,000. There is a million-and-a-half refugees in

:30:08.:30:12.

Syria, several hundred thousand in Turkey, and Lebanon is feeling the

:30:12.:30:18.

strains of it as well. There could be an outbreak either in Lebanon or

:30:18.:30:23.

the Turkish border very easily. could that be stopped? I'm not sure

:30:23.:30:27.

how it could be stopped. I know how it could be prevented from starting.

:30:27.:30:34.

That is, a long time ago we should have supplied arms and equipment to

:30:34.:30:38.

the Syrians resisting Bashar al- Assad. What do you understand, Mitt

:30:38.:30:42.

Romney's position, on the arming the opposition to be?

:30:42.:30:49.

understanding of his position is he wants a ply of arms, into -- a

:30:49.:30:54.

supply of arms into those resisting. Whether he's not reached the point

:30:54.:31:02.

where it is direct supply of American arms. Facilitating arms

:31:02.:31:07.

into Syria. I would like to see him say more. I hope maybe I can

:31:07.:31:12.

convince him over time. He's your man, he's on the rise after that

:31:12.:31:19.

debate, you are fundraising for him tonight in London. Why, when you

:31:19.:31:24.

talk to him, why isn't he persuaded about your point of view? I think

:31:24.:31:28.

he's persuaded by the point of view that they need arms to have a fair

:31:28.:31:32.

fight. You have the Iranians on the ground bringing weapons, the

:31:32.:31:36.

Russians bringing weapons in. I don't think he's quite ready to go

:31:36.:31:40.

the next step. Are you saying he would find it impossible to be

:31:40.:31:43.

elected f he explained to the American people, if his view before

:31:43.:31:46.

the election of that America needed to arm the opposition? I don't

:31:46.:31:51.

think in this environment that it would be very easy for him to

:31:51.:31:57.

explain to the American people. Obviously, there would be the

:31:57.:32:01.

counter-attack, that he's unqualified, inexperienced, all of

:32:01.:32:04.

those things. In part of his public statements on this, he says he

:32:04.:32:08.

wants to work with partners to identify and organise those members

:32:08.:32:14.

of the opposition who share our values? How on earth do you idea

:32:14.:32:22.

foi them? It is very difficult. Because, as I say, now 17, 18

:32:22.:32:29.

months later, we have seen this inflow of Jihadists, we always fish

:32:29.:32:35.

in troubled waters. That is the nature of Al-Qaeda, it argues, in

:32:35.:32:39.

my view, for us to have taken action earlier and more vigorously.

:32:39.:32:43.

Turning to the vice-presidential debate tonight, what are your

:32:43.:32:46.

thoughts? I think it will be very interesting, you have two different

:32:46.:32:50.

personalities here. If there was ever a clash in personalities, it

:32:50.:32:53.

certainly is there. Obviously as a Republican I

:32:53.:33:03.

anticipate that Paul R -- Ryan, he will do well, he uns the issue, and

:33:03.:33:09.

how well will he do it. The danger he has is saying something that

:33:09.:33:13.

Americans would be asking what he are talk about. I don't think he

:33:13.:33:19.

will do that, he's well rehearsed. A lot of the criticism from

:33:19.:33:22.

democrats about the President's performance is less about the

:33:22.:33:26.

detail, and more on the fact that he didn't appear to be in the room.

:33:26.:33:30.

He didn't appear to want to be there. Do you reflect if you had

:33:30.:33:36.

had been debating that guy, things might have been different? In 2008,

:33:36.:33:41.

the President did very well in the debates against me. Maybe that is a

:33:41.:33:46.

commentary on my all lents. As, the President didn't have a record to

:33:46.:33:52.

defend at that time. It was hope and change, now it is despair and

:33:52.:33:59.

danger. That is a pretty good line. I think the President has had

:33:59.:34:03.

difficulty in defending his record. One of the seminal moment was when

:34:04.:34:08.

the moderator said, what about working together, and Romney talked

:34:08.:34:10.

about being Governor of Massachusetts, working with

:34:10.:34:15.

Democrats, what did the President say? He said sometimes you have to

:34:15.:34:20.

say no to people. If there's one thing the American people want, and

:34:20.:34:28.

I'm stopped in the street by people, say work together and avert this

:34:28.:34:32.

physical cliff. That was one of the moments in the debate.

:34:32.:34:36.

Thank you. It's good to be back with you.

:34:36.:34:39.

Andrew Mitchell is still in his job as the Conservative Party's Chief

:34:39.:34:44.

Whip, responsible for maintaining party discipline. He survived

:34:44.:34:47.

coverage of his Downing Street encounter with police. He survived

:34:47.:34:50.

the slings and arrows of the party conference, though he judged it

:34:50.:34:56.

best not to turn up for his own. Could he still be on his way out.

:34:56.:35:04.

Tomorrow's Telegraph is demanding he should go. It is the kind of

:35:04.:35:09.

prime time exposure any politician would die for. We don't know if the

:35:09.:35:12.

Chief Whip watched BBC One on Friday night. If he did, he

:35:12.:35:17.

probably wasn't laughing. Victoria asked me if I could give her any

:35:17.:35:23.

tips, said, of course I can Moy dear. Now, look, if the BBC

:35:23.:35:27.

security man asks you to get off your bike and come in through the

:35:27.:35:31.

side gate. Whatever you do, don't call him a pleb.

:35:31.:35:37.

Now, in this long-running series, it could soon be crunch time for

:35:37.:35:41.

Andrew Mitchell. He has the dance floor to himself, and three members

:35:41.:35:47.

of the Police Federation in the judges' chairs. Mr Mitchell will

:35:48.:35:51.

sit down with those police representatives here at his local

:35:51.:35:56.

constituency office n what is called a "clear the air" meeting.

:35:56.:35:59.

Get this one right and he might be ablable to draw a line under the

:35:59.:36:04.

affair. Use his rag now, and his political future might not look too

:36:04.:36:08.

healthy. This is the row that refuses to die down, it all started

:36:08.:36:13.

three week ago, when a clearly angry Chief Whip, let loose at

:36:13.:36:17.

policemaning the Downing Street security gates, as he left on his

:36:17.:36:25.

bicycle. The official police log claims he uses the world BEEP plebs.

:36:25.:36:31.

It was the end of a long and extremely frustrating day, not that

:36:31.:36:34.

is an excuse for what happened. I didn't show the police the amount

:36:34.:36:40.

of respect I should have done. We should all respect them, they do an

:36:40.:36:43.

incredibly difficult job. I have apologised to the Police and the

:36:43.:36:47.

police officer involved on the gate. He has accepted my apology. And I

:36:47.:36:52.

hope very much we can draw a line under it there.

:36:52.:36:55.

Not much chance of that. He was forced to stay away from his own

:36:55.:37:00.

party conference last week. Local police, though, did turn up,

:37:00.:37:04.

wearing pleb-themed T-shirts. Despite the policemen involved

:37:04.:37:09.

accepting his apology. Many other young rank and file officers remain

:37:09.:37:13.

upset. Their anger now seems to be shifting, away from any words he

:37:13.:37:19.

might have used, to a Mo tensionly more damaging allegation -- a

:37:19.:37:24.

potentially more damaging allegation. And he seems to be

:37:24.:37:29.

protecting those lying. This is one of the lead judges? It is a simple

:37:29.:37:33.

question, what did you say, and that is what we want to know. If he

:37:33.:37:38.

did say the words he can apologise again, the offices have accepted

:37:38.:37:41.

the apology any way. That is not where we are at now. We are not

:37:41.:37:47.

really that bothered about the words. The issue is honesty and

:37:47.:37:50.

integrity, and who is telling the truth here. The Conservative Party,

:37:50.:37:54.

meanwhile, will be hoping the public will start to get tired of

:37:54.:37:58.

the row. When member of the Government told Newsnight, that out

:37:58.:38:02.

of his 80,000 constituency, he has received one e-mail about it. The

:38:02.:38:06.

public aren't interested. He has apologised, it has been accepted,

:38:06.:38:11.

it is time to move on. Even the police admit there is another

:38:12.:38:16.

agenda here though. Any criticism of Mr Mitchell feeds into wider

:38:16.:38:21.

anger about cuts to police budgets. Cuts many officers feel are unfair.

:38:21.:38:24.

This thing would have blown over if he had answered all the questions

:38:24.:38:28.

in the first place. That is what would have happened. You know. But,

:38:28.:38:32.

again, I would bring it back to the fact that the attitude of Mr

:38:32.:38:36.

Mitchell, may be reflective of the general attitude of the

:38:36.:38:40.

Conservative Party towards police and police officers. Mr Mitchell's

:38:40.:38:45.

position, does now seem to be under serious pressure. Several Tory MPs

:38:45.:38:49.

are said to have written to the chairman of the backbench 1922

:38:49.:38:54.

Committee, asking why he's still in a job. Like Strictly, it is not

:38:54.:39:03.

just the judges' vote that counts, it is the public's vote too. Are

:39:03.:39:07.

the police right to pursue it? is water under the bridge, they

:39:08.:39:12.

should let it go. I think this one is not a big issue what he is

:39:12.:39:16.

supposed to have called them. would you like to be called a pleb?

:39:16.:39:21.

Sfrpblgt I would brush it off. I could be called a lot worse. As a

:39:21.:39:25.

position of power in the police, it is disrespectful, and soen. They

:39:25.:39:30.

have a right to pursue it if their case is valid. If I'm asked whether

:39:30.:39:33.

or not he can survive, I think he can.

:39:33.:39:37.

I doubt if the police will come out and say, suddenly, they are

:39:37.:39:40.

complete lie satisfied with the situation. They will clearly have

:39:40.:39:46.

an attempt to keep it all going. At the end of the day, I think he he

:39:46.:39:49.

can survive, it is a clearly a difficult situation for him. It

:39:50.:39:52.

could all come down to one performance for Mr Mitchell

:39:52.:39:57.

tomorrow. A poor showing and he might have a lot more time on his

:39:57.:40:05.

hands, for Friday night TV? And old Brucie's gags.

:40:05.:40:09.

Ever since Barack Obama became the first black President of the US.

:40:09.:40:12.

People have discussed what affect his election would have on black

:40:12.:40:17.

people in America. As he fights for a second term, we decided there is

:40:17.:40:21.

no better person to hear about from a man who is the Poet Laureate of

:40:21.:40:29.

the ghetto, soul singer, Bobby Womack.

:40:29.:40:33.

Most people go down, I'm going up. It is just taking the guitar, and

:40:33.:40:39.

turning it upside down, and making all the chords backwards. Does

:40:39.:40:44.

anyone else do that, that you know of? No to.

:40:44.:40:49.

# Stop and take # A real good listen

:40:49.:40:54.

Bobby Womack has been singing and writing songs since he pinched his

:40:54.:41:00.

dad's guitar and taught himself to play.

:41:00.:41:09.

As unorthodox in his way, as one- time band mate, Jimi Hendrix.

:41:09.:41:14.

Jimmy just was different. Than anybody, when I say R & B, they had

:41:14.:41:20.

never seen a Jimi Hendrix. To them, for a I go that would be playing

:41:20.:41:27.

and then take -- a guy that would be playing and then take it off and

:41:27.:41:32.

light it guitar. He had had to put it out real quick because it look

:41:32.:41:39.

like a piece of burnt barbecue. They are all great, and a lot late.

:41:39.:41:42.

Womack is the survivor who has outlived most of the stars he has

:41:42.:41:52.
:41:52.:41:55.

written for or played with. Most, though not all.

:41:56.:42:00.

Womack was persuaded by his friend Sam Cooke, to let the Rolling

:42:00.:42:03.

Stones cover this song .Le # I used to love her

:42:03.:42:11.

# Well it's all over now. He said one day you will be part of

:42:11.:42:16.

history. Group is going to be huge. I said why don't they get their own

:42:16.:42:20.

songs. We became friends. played with them, didn't you. You

:42:20.:42:25.

toured with him? Two or three tour. Everyone has a bit of a down on

:42:25.:42:29.

banks at the moment. I was reading in your book, that you used to keep

:42:29.:42:32.

your money in your shoe. Do you think we were better off when we

:42:32.:42:40.

kept our money in our shoes? If you had as small an amount as I stkp,

:42:40.:42:46.

unless you were you were -- z unless you were a huge shoe. I went

:42:46.:42:49.

to Wilson Pickett's house, and he said, look in the closet, it was

:42:49.:42:54.

stacked to money all up to the top. I have never seen that amount of

:42:54.:42:58.

money. I said man, are you crazy, why not put it in the bank and you

:42:58.:43:06.

can draw off the interest. He said, no, I can't go asleep and then

:43:06.:43:10.

somebody steal my money. He was serious about that. I thought I

:43:10.:43:17.

wouldn't put mine in the bank either.

:43:17.:43:26.

When you count the Presidents we had before Obama showed up. It was

:43:26.:43:31.

telling me. 50 years ago, he said bobby we have a black President I

:43:31.:43:41.

want to see that. I knew he was drinking gin, I said, he said he

:43:41.:43:43.

was serious. What do you think of Obama? Trying

:43:44.:43:48.

to clean up the mess he has stepped into, he has done all he could do.

:43:48.:43:54.

You have to understand politic is politic. You know. He has to take

:43:54.:44:00.

care, each situation is a bad day. People think, four years to change

:44:00.:44:08.

it all right away. It takes four years to mess it up.

:44:08.:44:14.

Quentin Tarantino, borrowed the tune, Across 110th Street for the

:44:14.:44:18.

movie Jackie Brown, it was originally written about life in

:44:18.:44:24.

Harlem and New York. We don't hear about the ghetto at the moment for

:44:24.:44:28.

some reason, has it got better? is still the ghetto, nobody focus

:44:28.:44:32.

on it. I'm talking about Presidents, withstand FA bee President, talking

:44:32.:44:40.

about the middle class -- wannabe President talking about the middle-

:44:40.:44:45.

class. They never mentioned the poor people. They don't care. Even

:44:45.:44:51.

if they all came together, they have to take care of them.

:44:51.:44:56.

Bobby Womack has a new record out, on a British label, featuring

:44:56.:45:06.
:45:06.:45:08.

rising star, Lana Del Rey. # Everything is everythingle

:45:08.:45:12.

The singer has been clean for more than 20 years. After brushes with

:45:12.:45:17.

drugs, booze, firearms, marriage break-up, and premature death, does

:45:17.:45:25.

he have any regrets. Sometimes I do regret. But I keep

:45:25.:45:33.

thinking if I wasn't high maybe my life wouldn't have lasted for the

:45:33.:45:37.

better. I think certain things I did, I shouldn't have got married,

:45:37.:45:42.

or, you know, as soon as I got married the woman started playing,

:45:42.:45:46.

not just with my head, but my head. When your heart says, let's stop

:45:46.:45:54.

here. You have no choice. Your heart or other organs?! # I'm not

:45:54.:46:04.
:46:04.:46:04.

just a President of loveful An absolute legend. Shall we put

:46:04.:46:14.
:46:14.:46:17.

the day out of the mystery, why the day out of the mystery, why

:46:18.:46:22.

not? Good night. There is a potential core of

:46:22.:46:24.

intense wet weather to continuing across north eastern Scotland, the

:46:24.:46:29.

warnings are in force, the intensity of the rain 80mms before

:46:29.:46:34.

the system clears through. A case of sunny spells and shattered

:46:34.:46:39.

showers. The brighter yellows and greens denoting heavier pulses.

:46:39.:46:43.

Cloudy skies generally in Scotland, once we get into the borders across

:46:43.:46:47.

England, prominently dry and sunny. Showers should be few and far

:46:47.:46:51.

between. We keep the showers clinging on to the south coast for

:46:51.:46:56.

a time. Highs of 13 degrees. It is a case of sunny spells and light

:46:56.:47:00.

showers. It won't be long before the showers waiting in the wings in

:47:00.:47:04.

the south west and South Wales during Friday evening.

:47:04.:47:07.

Enjoy the sunshine while I have you have it. A better day for the Isle

:47:08.:47:11.

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