Browse content similar to 23/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It wasn't as if the BBC needed reminding, but tonight the Culture | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
Secretary did so any way. Can the public trust the nation's biggest | :00:16. | :00:23. | |
cultural institution? Thank you very much indeed. | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
The BBC Director-Generar didn't have an entirely easy time of it, | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
when he tried to reassure MPs on the subject. You don't have an | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
answer to that question. Have you an answer to that question, have | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
you any questions you would like to answer that you haven't thought of | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
answering yourself. Is trust easily recovered, should we change the law | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
to protect children a lot better. The Government is shocked to | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
discover it's October, and there is not enough time left to shoot | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
badgers, the cull is postponed. What chance this stay of execution | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
becoming permanent. The farmers' union President, gets to persuade | :01:01. | :01:11. | |
you of the merits of badger sied, while rock star, badgercide, while | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
Brian May talks the other side. Why would anyone jump off the side | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
of space. At one point I thought there is nole challenge left, I had | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
:01:31. | :01:33. | ||
done all the highest buildings, and base jumps, I felt kind of lost. | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
The editor of this programme made a mistake in killing an investigation | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
into child abuse by Jimmy Savile, says the man at the very top of the | :01:40. | :01:48. | |
BBC. In the latest session of the BBC's proed torture, the Director- | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
Generar today confessed to MPs that this organisation's shame and | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
embarrassment at what happened Prom, promised action, and said, in so | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
many words, that the Newsnight investigation should have gone | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
ahead. There was much for more than appearance in which he volunteered | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
himself, and in which he was obliged to admit serious failings. | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
The urgent Tass is to regain trust. The only disagreement is whether | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
this is the worst crisis in the BBC's history, or simply one of | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
them. There is no doubt the Corporation is being tested. | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
Director-Generar for just a month, George Entwistle found himself in | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
the, at times, clearly uncomfortable position of being | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
grilled for over two hours by MPs, who wanted him to account for what | :02:35. | :02:42. | |
had gone on in the past and the present. The allegations, of course, | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
centre on Savile is a, and the mounting evidence that he was a | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
predatory paedophile. Mr Entwistle began his evidence expressing | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
regret. There is no question in my mind, that what we now know | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
happened was a very, very grave matter indeed. For somebody to have | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
worked for the BBC and at the BBC over a number of decade, and to | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
have been responsible, for what the police describe as an unprecedented | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
scale of child sexual exploitation, there is no question in my mind, | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
this is a very grave matter indeed. But there were clearly many | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
questions that Mr Entwistle couldn't answer. Who in the BBC | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
decided to bus in young, vulnerable girls from institutions to be in | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
the audience of programmes that were being presented by Jimmy | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
Savile? I genuinely don't know the answer to that yet. We are trying | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
to pull together all the documentation we can about, which | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
managers were in positions at the time Jimmy Savile's programmes were | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
being made. We are supplying that information to the police so, they | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
know how to take their investigations forward. But, the | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
Director-Generar insisted, that new child protection procedures in the | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
organisation, that such acts could not now happen. Since the story | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
broke, we heard today, the BBC has received allegations, not just | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
against Jimmy Savile, but nine other BBC or contributor, these | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
allege sexual harassment, assault, or inappropriate conduct. Some of | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
the cases, say the BBC, have been referred to the police. Then MPs | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
came to the decision by Newsnight not to run its investigation into | :04:21. | :04:30. | |
Savile. Last night's BBC Panorama aired interviews with Newsnight | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
staff, concerned with the decision by Newsnight's editor, Peter Rippon, | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
to end their investigation into Savile, despite their having | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
gathered, in their view, significant and compelling | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
testimony. Mr Entwistle, do you now accept, in | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
the light of last night's Panorama, that the decision to drop the | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
Newsnight investigation was a catastrophic mistake. I came away | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
from the Panorama, firmly of the view, that investigation, even if | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
in the judgment of the editor it was not ready for transmis mission | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
-- transmission, at the point he was looking at it, should have been | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
allowed to go ahead. Why do you think the description of events was | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
inaccurate and incomplete. When you want to find out why a programme | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
has not done an investigation, in my long experience of the BBC, you | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
go to the editor of that investigation, or the commissioning | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
editor of the investigation, because they are the people who | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
should know why they commissioned the piece. They should have the | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
most complete picture of why they commissioned the piece. What became | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
clear to us, after the blog was published, of that what had | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
happened to Newsnight, is there was a significant, it seemed, | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
difference of opinion between the people working on the investigation | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
and the editor, Peter Rippon, who commissioned the investigation. | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
This difference of opinion between the account Peter Rippon gave in | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
his blog, and what his staff were saying, led to a trawl of e-mails, | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
leading to the BBC issuing a correcting statement. I have asked | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
Peter Rippon to step aside, because of my disappointment in the nature | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
of the blog, and the inaccracy in the blog. | :06:07. | :06:14. | |
The final area of questioning was about what the director -- | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
Director-Generar himself knew. Welcome to Jim'll Fix It. | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
One allegation is the Newsnight investigation was shelved because, | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
as the then head of BBC television, Mr Entwistle, was planning a big | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
Boxing Day tribute to Jimmy Savile. Mr Entwistle said he first was told | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
about the investigation by the BBC's director of news, Helen | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
Boaden. The substance of the conversation was Helen said to me, | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
I wanted to tell you, this is to the best of my recollection, this | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
is a conversation a long time ago. I wanted to tell you that Newsnight | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
are looking at Jimmy Savile, or investigating Jimmy Savile, and if | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
it comes off f it stands up, words to that effect, it may have an | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
impact on your Christmas schedule. And I said, well that is for | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
letting me know, and please update me, and what I meant by that, on | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
whether or not it will be going ahead. You are told that one of the | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
flagship investigative programmes on the BBC is looking into one of | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
the most iconic figures, who you are about to commission huge | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
tributes to, and you don't want to know what it is about? It wasn't | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
because I didn't want to know, what was in my mind was this | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
determination not to show undue interest. But, just saying, thanks, | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
Helen, you know, what are you looking at? Why did she tell you, | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
if you were determined not to ask what it was about. She presumably | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
thought you should know, and would have expected you to say, that is | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
interesting, what is it about? assumed she was prepare me, as | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
indeed she was, to the possibility that I would need to think about | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
changing the schedule. That was the information he took from the | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
conversation. The director general left the | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
committee with still many questions unanswered, two reviews already in | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
place may answer some, but the big question, what this affair will do | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
to public trust in the BBC, will, perhaps, take longer to become | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
clear. No-one from the BBC's senior | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
management wanted to join us tonight, instead we have three | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
people who do, or have worked for the BBC. Bruce Bradley, the former | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
Culture Secretary, and -- Ben Bradshaw, a former member of the | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
BBC and member of the Select Committee, the editor of the Today | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
Programme, and Liz Kershaw who presents for BBC 6. This question | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
of trust that is the key to the whole thing, and does the BBC have | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
confidence in the BBC. How much danger are we in? The basic scandal | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
of Jimmy Savile and child abuse, and also the way the BBC has | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
handled it. I don't think it is irreparable, but George Entwistle | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
needs to get a grip. Needs to assemble the facts and make himself | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
confident in those facts, he needs to act on them and quickly. Do you | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
feel, from what you saw today, that George Entwistle is the man to | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
restore confidence? It didn't appear so today. I mean, you have | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
to feel a little bit sorry for the bloke in that he has only been in | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
the job a short time, and he has to go before a bunch of well-trained, | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
these days, MPs, on the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
But, there are two problems, and I think one of them is, I think the | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
Director-Generar looks as if he's guilty of hanging the editor of | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
Newsnight out to dry. Much as indeed some members of your staff | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
are hanging the editor of their programme out to dry. Who says the | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
decision was his alone? The problem for Entwistle is he orders this | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
inquiry, which is to be unbiased and unpartisan, to look into what | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
happened, and then, before the MPs, he dobs Entwistle in. Rippon you | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
are talking about. Rippon, he says that Peter Rippon should have run | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
that programme. How does he know, he hasn't seen the programme. | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
said continue with it, he didn't say run it. He hasn't seen the | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
programme. I know you are a long way away in New York, do you think | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
public confidence is being eroded in the BBC? Well, definitely back | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
home, but I can say here, no. When I was entering through immigration | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
and custom, I was asked what I did for a job, and said I worked for | :10:32. | :10:41. | |
the BBC, and the guy said, oh I love Morse, and you're in. Those in | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
ITV got shoved to the back of the queue! I asked today a friend is | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
the Savile thing getting a lot of coverage. And I was told, no, it's | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
not like he's in Downton Abbey, that sort of thing. We are OK on a | :10:55. | :11:04. | |
global scale, but back home people are definitely suspicious. Peter | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
Rippon it has been accused that he was left out to dry. He gave an | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
account of his reasons for dropping the investigation, any Director- | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
Generar in that position would feel very let down as George Entwistle | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
does feel let down. He went further than, that and he said there is to | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
be an unbiased inquiry into what happened. The other two important | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
points, and this is where the trouble might lie in the future, I | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
find it very difficult to accept there was no pressure whatsoever on | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
Rippon, because of those two e-mail, which we now know about. One from | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
Liz MacKean to her friend, which said, which had Peter Rippon quoted | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
as saying there is a long political chain attached to this. And the | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
other statement to Meirion Jones, which is the bosses weren't very | :11:51. | :12:00. | |
happy. Why would he say that if there were not some form, possibly | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
entirely justifiable interpeerpbs, but. We hope whatever -- | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
Interference. We hope whatever happens in the inquiry that would | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
be found out? It is thought to be prejudged that Rippon has been | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
stepped aside, I don't know what that means, you might know, he's | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
your boss. I don't know either, I assume it is voluntary, as an | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
alternative to being compulsory. I don't know, I don't understand. As | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
far as the general public are concerned, that is one small aspect | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
of the story, isn't it? Does this perpetual spectacle of day after | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
day, the BBC beating itself up, do anything to help matters? No, that | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
is why George Entwistle needs to get a grip, assemble the facts and | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
act on those facts, we can't wait on the independent Pollard Review. | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
The longer this is about the BBC's handling about this, the more it is | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
not about the victim, them getting their voice heard, and them getting | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
justice, about the real scandal, which is how Jimmy Savile, and | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
possibly others, managed to abuse them, with impunity, over decade. | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
That is the important thing in all of this, isn't it? Of course it is, | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
but the tail spin was caused by the bureaucrats not knowing how to | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
handle, what was actually quite a simple issue. There is nothing | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
wrong with an editor saying I don't like that piece it is not running, | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
nor with the senior manager saying are you running this piece on Jimmy | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
Savile, we have something coming up. That is perfectly reasonable, it is | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
the tail spin, it is the denial, it is the hiding away, it is the false | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
statements, that is what undermines trust. You are right, it it must | :13:38. | :13:46. | |
get so boring every night. It is only news too! George Entwistle | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
today broadened this, he apologised producely for stuff that didn't | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
happen on his watch, a long time ago, it was really in your end of | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
the business. In the pop end of things, and he then went on to say | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
that there was an on goings investigation, I think he said nine | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
people, for sexual harassment, and possible assault and that sort of | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
thing. Has the culture changed in your end of the business? To some | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
extent. I have to say that I was really impressed when I went to see | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
George Entwistle. Because he was very honest with me, and said, Liz, | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
I don't know anything about radio, I don't know anything about Radio 1 | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
and its culture down the decades, he was very interested in what hi | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
to say. He was obvious -- I had to say. He was obviously keen to get | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
any help he could, this shocked me, with assembling a cast of | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
characters at the time. It amazed me that he was saying there was no | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
formal record within the BBC of who was managing Radio 1 at that time, | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
who the producers were, who the executives were, who the controller | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
was. I wrote down a list of names for him, and he asked me was this | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
guy still alive, and this guy's name has come up a lot, who's he. | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
He said he wanted today get to the bottom of the culture. Did he call | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
you? After I appeared on the Today Programme, I got calls from all | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
layers of the BBC managers, and I said, no, I'm not doing this, I | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
want to see George Entwistle. He saw me. This is how you revealed | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
that you had been groped on air by a DJ? That was one of the things I | :15:35. | :15:43. | |
said. I said there was endemic sexism, and if you were a woman, | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
the way they kept you in your place was to use your gender against you, | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
that's the point I was trying to make. But it has changed, hasn't it, | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
at least I hope it has changed? it's changed. But it is still a | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
problem, I think, that is a legacy of that. And George Entwistle is | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
aware of that. I was really inspired by his comments that he's | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
going to look into how women, in radio, particularly, are still | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
treated. Because, for example, I don't want to bother you with facts, | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
but only 17 perverse presenters on the BBC's big three music stations | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
are women. There hasn't been a woman on daytime Radio Two for 17 | :16:22. | :16:29. | |
years. Only 26% of output by local radio is by female, and there isn't | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
one, can I just make this point, there isn't one BBC breakfast show | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
in the country, 54 of them, presented by a woman, that is | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
something he said he would look at. Perhaps if somebody had spoken to | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
Liz MacKean, as they spoke to this Liz, the BBC might not be in the | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
crisis it is in now. I want to say one other thing. In one of the | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
things Peter Rippon said, he said, when he decided, the editor of | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
Newsnight, when he decided to junk the investigation, he referred to | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
the evidence being weak, because we only had the women, only the women. | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
This is toxic. He didn't mean, come on Ben. This is, I'm afraid, | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
totally fatal for him. That is hypersensitive. How can you refer | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
to "only the women". Let me answer. He could have used only the | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
victims? He could have done, he said "only the women", there were | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
more women than he fesed up to. are going -- We are going to | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
explore the question of child protection in a moment, there is a | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
question whether people can believe BBC News any more? There are | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
questions about this, the outstanding questions from George | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
Entwistle's evidence today, is serious questions for BBC News | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
management. What were the people doing inbetween George Entwistle at | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
the top and Peter Rippon as editor of Newsnight. Lots of questions | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
about that, still not resolved. you believe it? Generally I believe | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
it. Two things will come out of this, you know what they are, I | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
know what they are. One, if editor's have any sense, never, | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
ever refer up in the BBC, it will be trouble. More than, that once | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
the inquiry is out of the way, what will happen at the end, is it will | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
be much, much more difficult to do the sort of journalism that you lot | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
were doing. Because people will be far more cautious as consequence. | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
The most sickening aspect of the whole deck backle is the attitude | :18:23. | :18:30. | |
that seems to have been taken by some -- debacle is the attitude | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
that seems to have been taken by some, is that the people shouldn't | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
have been taken seriously because they are victims. There is a | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
problem of identifying offenders before they attack again. Might it | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
be better to adopt the system in place in Australia, Ireland and the | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
US, and make it an offence not to report incidents of sexuality | :18:50. | :18:59. | |
exploitation. There were 200 potential victim, | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
dozens of witnesses, yet Jimmy Savile managed to live to 84 | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
without being arrested. The abuse took place, not just at the BBC, | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
but in hospitals, and children's homes across the country. So why | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
didn't anyone report it? Why didn't those witnesses come forward? | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
finding a lot of schools and institutions, such as the BBC, | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
would much rather hide the abuse, and allow the abuser to continue, | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
rather than actually report it, because then it would damage their | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
reputation. We have no clearer evidence of that than the recent | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
trouble we have had with Jimmy Savile. | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
There are, of course, safeguards in place, meant to protect young | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
people. Any organisation that works with children, has to put in place | :19:45. | :19:55. | |
:19:55. | :19:59. | ||
In Britain, there is no legal duty to report that abuse, either to the | :19:59. | :20:05. | |
police or to social services. The answer, some say, is to compel | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
witnesses to come forward, to make it a criminal offence not to pass | :20:08. | :20:16. | |
on those allegations to the authorities. | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
Last week, 32 child protection groups, barristers and church | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
leaders, wrote to the Times, calling for that change in the law. | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
They want to see mandatory reporting of child abuse | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
allegations, as is already the case in the US, Canada, Australia and | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
Ireland. If we had mandatory reporting we | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
would obviously, all abusers would be identified before they could | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
continue their abuse, and we know, we know that child abusers very | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
rarely only abuse once. Child abuse happens in institutions, nationwide, | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
and without mandatory reporting, we can't possibly know the scale of it. | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
Many victims and other campaigners say a similar system in the UK | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
would give people more confidence to come forward. We spoke to one | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
teacher, who said her complaints about a fellow member of staff were | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
not passed on by the school to the authorities. | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
I followed the correct procedure, which was to report this to the | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
designated person that every school has, over time I began to suspect | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
it hadn't been reported to the local authority. It is almost seen | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
as a bad thing to report something. There is a culture of just covering | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
things up, and burying your head in the sand, and hoping it will go | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
away. But, there are strong arguments | :21:32. | :21:38. | |
against any change in the law. Last year Eileen Monroe chaired a wide- | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
ranging Government review of child protection. We have a strong | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
culture within organisations that they should make report, and we | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
have statutory guidance that says they have a duty to make reports, | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
and that they should have a policy within any organisation that has | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
contact with children to help people talk through, is this | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
something to worry about, and then to know how to report it. Our | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
system is ending up with about the same rate of referrals as the | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
countries with mandatory reporting. So there is no statistical evidence | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
to suggest that we are missing more serious cases than in the countries | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
with mandatory reporting. Large children's charities are also | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
against any change in the law. The NSPCC claims there is no solid | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
evidence that mandatory reporting work, and it might just clutter up | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
the system with extra unproven allegations. Newsnight understands, | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
though, that the organisation may now conduct a review of that | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
position, in the light of the Savile scandal. | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
And the experience of mandatory reporting, in other countries, has | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
been mixed at best. In Australia critics of the law say it has led | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
to a huge increase in abuse case, overwhelming the child protection | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
system, and takinging resources away from other areas -- taking | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
resources away from other areas of social work like family support. | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
Child protection workers on both sides of the argument agree on one | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
thing, more does need to be done to change the culture of reporting | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
abuse. I think there is a certain amount of crowd mentality, there is | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
a sense, with the Savile case, it appears as if a large number of | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
people knew about it, so any one individual would have thought that | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
others know about it, and they haven't done anything, perhaps I | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
shouldn't. There is that research of somebody on the street, having | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
been injured, and people walk past, and other people then walk past. We | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
end up behaving with immense callousness, because we are | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
following the crowd behaviour. you think the culture of society | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
has changed against 1975? It is certainly certainly changing for | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
the better, we should not feel smug. There is a lot of progress that | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
needs to be made. The world may have changed since Savile ruled the | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
airwave, but today victims and witnesses say, they are still often | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
treated with suspicion, as accusers and troublemakers. Do we do enough | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
to protect the most vulnerable in our society my guests are here. | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
What do you think of this idea, mandatory reporting? I would think | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
it was quite a good idea, if I believed our systems could cope | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
with it. But right now, our child protection system is completely at | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
breaking point. You have to look at the fact that Birmingham has failed | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
as a child protection social services, and then there are others | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
who have failed. Then if you get this kind of mandatory reporting | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
happening as well, the whole system will completely collapse. | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
principle you are favour of it, it is just the mechanics? In general, | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
we have to look at the issue of vulnerable children in this country, | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
and our politicians need to stand up and have a vision in relation to | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
issues of child protection in this country. You don't think it is a | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
desirable thing? No, I think it is worth saying, that I don't think | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
that child sexual abuse is rife, and I do not think that it is on | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
the rise. Actually, I'm very nervous about the climate at the | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
moment that is ratchetting up the discussion, because of what has | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
happened around one very nasty, horrible case, the Jimmy Savile | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
case. Mandatory reporting, it would be in danger of, effectively, | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
having every rumour, every suspicion, go to the authorities. | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
And I think that will create a climate of finger-pointing. Every | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
adult interaction with a child could potentially be seen in a very | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
unhelpful way. You have a pattern of repeat behaviour by these people. | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
If you can get the first case on a file somewhere, doesn't it save | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
other children? I think there is a serious danger of taking this case, | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
and because of a variety of people ratchetting it up, and a kind of | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
blood lust in the air. There is a danger of a witch-hunt? Instead of | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
very serious case of protecting children, what we are going to do | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
is do children a great disservice, now, we have already heard it on | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
this programme this evening, we conflate a whole range of different | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
things, sexism in the BBC, the lack of female presenter. That has | :26:12. | :26:19. | |
really confused all of that, I agree. It was in the inquiry today. | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
I am a making the point. I do think that child abuse is a serious | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
problem in this country. The Children's Commissioner is about to | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
release a report decribing wide scale abuse of girls in street | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
gangs. We have to redefine our child abuse in this country, it is | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
no longer limited to families. It is quite endemic in certain areas | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
and it has to be addressed. We have already got to a situation in this | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
country, where parents are afraid to let their children out to play. | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
That is a different argument. You can't use that argument. | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
allowed to use the argument I use, you can't tell me what argument I | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
do. You go ahead and finish it, I think you are wrong. Teachers in | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
school are frightened to let parents to take photos in sports | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
days, we have criminal record checks that effectively meant you | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
had to have a license to work with children. Voluntary Organisations | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
frightened to work with children. This is not an atmosphere. This is | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
a flawed argument. It is an argument that you disagree with, | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
that doesn't make it flawed, there are two sides to this argument. | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
are talking about a normal situation, which is adults being | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
with children, you are saying, because there are allegations | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
around that, that the issue of child protection. I'm suggesting | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
unless we calm down. We agreed we were going to let me speak, next. | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
There is an issue here, which is, that there is a problem with child | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
protx in this country. It doesn't - - protection in this country. It | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
doesn't mean that adults being with children in a perfectly OK way, | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
should be addressed in an axe say thery manner. But nevertheless, | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
there is a problem in this country, and we're blind to it. When in | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
Rochdale the police and social services are decribing girls who | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
are being sexually abused as making a lifestyle choice, it is a problem. | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
I don't think society should be reorganised around child protection. | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
The question here is about how one protects children, and part of that | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
has to be, has it not, to do with the belief, the credibility that is | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
attached to accounts these children give. Time after time, and it has | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
happened in this latest BBC business, there is some question | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
mark placed over the testimony of the victims, precisely because they | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
are victims. How do you get around that? We have to be very careful, | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
as well, that we don't say people have the right to be listened to | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
and believed per se. You have to bear in mind that when people say | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
something happened, you have to then see whether you make a | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
decision about what weather you proceed with it. Because, for | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
example, just to use that example, children can say all sorts of | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
things, adults can say all sorts of things, there is a lot of rumours | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
on Twitter at the moment about all sorts of people, do you want to | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
live in a society where rumour and finger-pointing, where people who | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
say, I'm a victim, means that the police have to be reported to. That | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
everything has to be acted on. That we look at each other all the time | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
as though something terrible is occurring. You won't like that | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
world either? The very serious incidents, in the very mine | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
instances that they happen, of child abuse, will be drowned out by | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
an absolute clamming of people not knowing what we are meant to be | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
pointing our fingers at. One child being abused is one too many, you | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
cannot call it minor. It is a problem, because there is an | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
endemic power imbalance. Children cannot hold adults accountable for | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
their safety. Adults do have to take that responsibility. We are | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
not taking that responsibility robust low. We will leave it there | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
for the time being, thank you both very much. | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
Mr Brock breathes easely the platoons of gunmen to be let loose | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
on badgers in England, are being held off. This is not, the | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
Government assures us, a change of policy of how to control TB in cow, | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
ministers have been just caught out by unpredictable things, the | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
Olympics, the weather and the fact it is October. The excuse hasn't | :30:11. | :30:19. | |
been cancelled, merely postponed. It has been described by some as a | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
good day to bury badger news. Certainly for our team on the | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
ground in Gloucestershire, the badgers themselves chose to stay | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
buried. They are nocternal. Here are some the BBC filmed earlier. | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
For the farmer here, who had signed up to take part in one of the two | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
trial areas, it has not been a great day. We're hugely | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
disappointed, absolutely devastated. The farmers in the Gloucestershire | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
cull area were ready to go, the contractors were ready to go. But | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
farmers in the whole of the West Country will be disappointed, it | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
just delays the roll out of further work we have to do to bring this | :30:56. | :31:04. | |
disease and badgers under control. Even anti-cull campaigners were | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
breathing only a cautious sigh of relief. The cull had been due to | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
start within days. We last minute the plug has been pulled. But | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
obviously we're very relieved to find that. But there are | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
alternatives out there, and time is still against us. We're not | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
complacent. We are going to keep calm and carry on with this. Let's | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
get this sorted, let's get the vaccination out there. So, what's | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
really going on here? According to the scientist, for a cull to be | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
most effective, between 70-80% of animals must be killed T has been | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
clear in recent days how many badgers would be involved. And | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
farmers have to pay for each of those to be killed. As the numbers | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
have gone up, so too have the costs. The original estimate for the two | :31:52. | :31:58. | |
proposed cull areas was that they were dealing with a total of 4,500 | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
animal, that was revised last week to close to 8,000. | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
In the House today, Environment Secretary, Owen Paterson, said bad | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
weather and the Olympics were behind his announcement that the | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
cull was called off. And placed the focus firmly on farmers and the | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
contractors who would have actual low had to pull the trigger. | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
actually had to pull the trigger. Today I have received a letter on | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
behalf of the NFU, on behalf of the companies performing the culls, | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
explaining why they don't feel they can go ahead this year, and | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
requesting they be postponed until next summer. In these circumstances, | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
it is the right thing to do, and as the people who have to have to | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
deliver this policy on the ground. And work within the science, I | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
respect their decision. He was adamant this is not a change in | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
policy, just a delay. For Labour, Mary Creagh couldn't resist | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
gloating. Labour has warned the Government for two years that the | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
badger cull was bad for farmers, bad for tax tears, and bad for | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
wildlife. And in addition, the Government's handling of the cull | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
has been -- tax-payers, and bad for wildlife. And in addiction, the | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
Government's handling of the cull has been shambolic, it is right it | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
is delayed. The science of the cull has been much picked over, with | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
both sides of the debate claiming to have science on their side. In | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
the House today both Government and opposition quoted the same | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
scientists, how can that be? I have been told that, in fact, there is | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
little disagreement among the scientists who have looked at this. | :33:35. | :33:43. | |
A cull will have only a limited impact. A net reduction of herd | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
infections of some 12-16%, in nine years, in the 250km-square cull | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
trial areas. The scientists that led the key trials OJ badgers, | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
thought he now believes culling to be irrelevant and a distraction, | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
and vaccination and biosecurity will, instead, be at the heart of | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
any strategy to deal with TB in the UK. All the scientific experts that | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
I know, agree, that long-term, large scale killing of badgers, has | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
a relatively small effect on reducing TB in cattle. I very much | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
hope the Government uses the delay as an opportunity to reconsider the | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
policy. Because killing badgers is not really going to make an | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
effective contribution to TB eradication. | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
The Government says its goal is to protect cattle from what it | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
describes as a serious animal health problem that is devastating | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
for farmer, and its policy is science-led. The 30 or so | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
scientists who wrote to the Sunday papers last week, urging a re-think, | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
might not agree. They warned that licensed culling risks increasing | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
cattle TB, rather than reducing it. Neither side has yet won the battle | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
of the badger outright. How long will this delay be. Peter Kendall | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
is President of the National Farmers' Union, and Dr Brian May is | :35:03. | :35:11. | |
from the pressure group Team Badger? Team Badger. When exactly | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
did you decide now that the cull is a bad idea? It is not a bad idea. | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
Bad idea to do it now? It is the time of year. A week ago yesterday, | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
Monday last week, we learned that the Government agency had decided, | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
or through a survey, that there were twice as many badgers to need | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
to be controlled in a very short period of time. And, look, Jeremy. | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
The decision to have the cull of based on incomplete evidence, | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
clearly? We were given, and we have been working on one set of numbers, | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
and late in the day, we were given some new numbers. But this is not | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
like turning a tap on and off. This is the countryside. Farmers and | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
landowners were not prepared to have anybody turn up and shoot | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
badgers. We needed the right resource in the right place. I | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
believe it is the poncable thing to do is to say actual low, if the | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
conditions are wrong, you re-think. So, it is not a reprieve, it is | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
merely a postponed execution? not what we wanted, but it is | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
welcome, because these badgers are living instead of dying at the | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
moment. We have a lot of breathing space to make our case, our case is | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
that culling was never going to do much good any way. What we should | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
be doing is putting all our resources into vaccination, not | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
only badgers but cow, that is what I would love to work with you on in | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
the next few months. We are told that vaccination of cows is years | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
away, I don't believe that. What do you think? We would love to see a | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
vaccination programme. Presumably would you prefer vaccination to | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
execution? If we can have a vaccination, we would have it, | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
tomorrow. But look, wherever TB is in cattle or anywhere in the world, | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
they have had to control the reservoir of the disease in the | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
wildlife. I would dispute that. What about the scientists saying | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
there is no evidence of it? chief vet in DEFRA is adamant we | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
need to do this, the chief vet in Wales has advocated this sort of | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
policy. There are plenty of scientists. I'm not necessarily | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
expert in the control of disease in wildlife, the experts also. | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
would you think people want to go around shooting badgers? If I was a | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
farmer I would be frustrated and upset, this is going on for so long, | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
and it is we have to do something. That something is not killing | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
badgers. What's the matter? I'm asking you, do you think they are | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
mad or something? I don't think they areed mad, it is an emotional | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
response. You see a badger and you know the badger has the same | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
disease as your cows, it started in the cows, you think I will get rid | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
of the badger t will solve our problem. The research has been done. | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
This country spent �pun 50 million on the RBCT trial, and the result | :37:55. | :38:03. | |
was that culling of badgers doesn't affect controlling bovine TB in | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
cows. It is cheap Tory shoot them than vaccinate them? It is not a | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
viable option today. It could be. There could be lots of solutions in | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
the future. At the moment this disease is doubling every nine | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
years, and last year it took 34,000 cattle. We have to start. If you | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
look at the spread of TB, it fans out across the country, exact low | :38:22. | :38:32. | |
:38:32. | :38:33. | ||
as populations of badgers increase. That is an assumption. I don't | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
believe badgers are the problem. Even the badger tru Trust. | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
could kill every badger and you would still have bovine TB in cow, | :38:41. | :38:47. | |
the best you can do by killing every badger is supposedly 15% | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
improvement, you could make it worse what cull. A cull is not a | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
solution, vaccination is a solution. I want to talk to you after this to | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
see if we can work together on this. This cull, in the meantime will | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
happen? It is not going to happen. Personally I think the Government | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
would be too embarrassed to go through this again, I would hate to | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
do this again. It is dead in the water. This was gefr never going to | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
work, it is impractical, it is not based on science, and against the | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
wishes of the British people, you can see by the petition. Are you | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
certain it is going to happen next year? All I can go on is the strong | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
words said by the Secretary of State today on the floor of the | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
House. He was clear and unequivocal about his commitment. Politics we | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
know can change massively in the next nine month. Don't you think he | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
has a different agenda than you. You guys are sincere and honest and | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
have a living to make. Don't you feel you are in bed with someone | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
who has a different motivation? always nervous how politicians | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
operate when they need re-election. Owen Paterson comes from an area | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
that is riddled with TB, he has one of the biggest dairy companies in | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
his constituency, and he knows we need a viable industry here. We | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
can't leave it. No-one is saying that, we are saying vaccinate. | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
is not available. I believe it can be available in months rather than | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
years. I want to talk to you about it. It is one of those rather you | :40:17. | :40:24. | |
than me things, stepping out of a balloon many miles in the air. | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
Felix Baumgartner said that was the one thing he definitely had to do | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
in his life, unusual to say the least. It was watched on | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
smartphones and iPhones by 1.8 billion people. But what was the | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
point. When George Mallory was asked why anyone would want to | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
climb Mount Everest, he said it was because it was there. I wonder if | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
Felix Baumgartner felt the same. The door is open, Felix. What | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
person in their right mind would find themselves alone, but for a | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
disembodied voice over 24 miles above the earth. Slide the seat | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
forward. The highest manned balloon flight, was just a preamble to be | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
the first human being to break the sound barrier without a vehicle. | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
Felix Baumgartner, Fearless Felix, has made a career out of pushing | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
the boundaries of human flight. We are told the entire event took | :41:22. | :41:27. | |
place in the name of science. Before the long assent, in a | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
specially-designed cap actual, Felix Baumgartner's body had been | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
fitted with a -- capsule, Felix Baumgartner's body had been fitted | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
with a number of measures to monitor how the human body copes | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
with sustained free fall and supersonic acceleration or | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
deceleration. To stop his blood boiling, his lungs exploding and | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
his body disintegrating, he wears a pressurised suit. And the whole | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
thing is funded by a soft drinks manufacturer. | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
Start the cameras. Our guardian angel will take care | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
of you. Felix Baumgartner, why did you want | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
to do this? Well, you know, I have been, I have always been a very | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
competitive person, since I was 16 years old I started skydiving, I | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
always wanted to push the limits. That is the reason why I was | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
working on this so hard. It is not like competing at tennis or at pool, | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
or a running race, is it. To put yourself on the edge of space, | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
miles and miles up, I mean, that's completely different? It is, but | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
this is what make it so unique and challenging. If you look at my | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
background as a base jumper, at a certain point I felt there was nole | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
challenge left. I had done all the highest -- there was no challenge | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
left. I had done all the highest buildings in the world. I felt lost | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
and no challenge any more, and working on this has been a total | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
low different ball game. I had to learn everything from scratch, I | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
was not a scientist or a properly trained astronaut. I started | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
everything from zero, that was the challenge. What is it like, when | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
you are up there, all alop, looking down on the earth -- alone, looking | :43:16. | :43:24. | |
down on the earth from a tremendous height. What is it like? When I was | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
standing outside, it was a very calm and quiet moment, very | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
peaceful. The view was totally outstanding and unique. At the same | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
time you realise everything around you is very hostile. I couldn't | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
stand there for a long time. As soon as I disconnected my oxygen | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
hose from the ship's system, I only breathe out of the oxygen bottles | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
on the back pack, they provided oxygen for ten minutes. I had to go | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
off as fast as I can. You could have got this view from | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
just looking at pictures, but you felt you some how had to see it | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
yourself? I have seen all the footage we created on that day, and | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
I have to say, it's really unique footage, but it is nothing in | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
comparison with what I saw. I saw it for real, you know. I think I'm | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
the only person who has that image in my mind. But when your body is | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
spinning in the way we have seen it spinning from the footage, you | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
could black out or something, anything could happen? You could | :44:31. | :44:38. | |
black out, or mostly you could ride out, if you have a flat spin, you | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
could have a red out, when the blood goes toe your brain we call | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
it a red out. We create safety equipment for that kind of fatality. | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
We had a G-force meeter, that is constantly measuring the G-force on | :44:50. | :44:57. | |
your body. If it goes over the certain limit it fires a chute and | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
that will pull you out of the spin. What did we learn out of it? Nobody | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
thought before it was possible as a human person to break the speed of | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
sound. We proved that to the whole world. Again, nobody really thought | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
a safe bail out from 130,000 feet and the re-entry is possible or | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
surviveable. We were also testing the next generation spacesuit. | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
do you want to do next, then? Breaking the speed of light! | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
would like to see that very much. Honestly, I think it is time to | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
move on. I want to inspire the next generation, and maybe in 40 years | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
another guy will call me up and say Mr Baumgartner I want to break your | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
record. I will support that guy. In the meantime I'm flying helicopter, | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
I'm also a commercial helicopter pilot. I will put my knowledge into | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
public service, and work as a firefighter or rescue people from | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
mountains, because, again, that means I'm in there, and this is | :45:54. | :46:01. | |
where I belong to. Thank you. Tomorrow morning's front pages now. | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
The Times, the head of news has been accused, according to the | :46:05. | :46:10. |