Browse content similar to 13/12/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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More than �2 million, for a man forced on to a plane, imprisoned in | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
Libya, and claims he was tortured. Has the Government payout done | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
enough to save the reputation of the Secret Intelligence Service? | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
MI6 might want to move on, but it is hardly going to end there. | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
Others are suing, and the service will face police and judicial | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
inquiries into Hirst its conduct. An end of term report on free | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
schools, it was the Education Secretary's big idea, have the new | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
kids delivered, and what does the competition think? I think they | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
feel we are a threat, and they are worried about the competition. I | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
think they find that, for them, it is a challenge. | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
Is it healthy or unhealthy competition? We will be debating | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
that. After cleaners dropped letters on | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
to the minister's desk at the Department of Work and Pensions, | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
they are to get pay rise to the living wage. Can anyone other than | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
the public sector and big companies afford to pay it. Two small | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
business owners here, one who pays the living wage, and another would | :01:19. | :01:29. | |
:01:29. | :01:32. | ||
Good evening, it is a lot of money for the Government to pay up in | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
case where they have not admitted any liability. Sami Al-Saadi, an | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
opponent of the late Colonel Gaddafi, said the Government were | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
involved in rendition for him in 2004, along with his family, where | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
he says he was tortured. He may remember last year that William | :01:50. | :01:57. | |
Hague said accusation that is MI5 and MI6 had colluded in the ill- | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
treatment of detainees. The apparent abduction happened when | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
Tony Blair was engaged in an entente cordiale with Colonel | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
Gaddafi. Britain's relations with Libya have | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
gone from good to bad and back again. And done so more than once. | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
People were bound to get caught out in that ebb and flow, and in 2011, | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
it went sour for MI6. Documents detailing their co-operation with | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
Libyan intelligence, were recovered from an HQ, as revolutionary | :02:38. | :02:47. | |
sources feesed Tripoli. Wn told the tale of a Libyan Islamist militant | :02:47. | :02:56. | |
called Abu Munthir. This was a none deGurerre for Sami Al-Saadi. He was | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
detained on a rendition flight. When I arrived to the aircraft door, | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
they handcuffed me and my wife. 2004, Mr Al-Saadi and his family | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
had gone to Hong Kong, he says he was lured there, only to be | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
detained on passport violations. British intelligence officers | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
contacted the Libyan authorities to tell them that the Al-Saadi family | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
were in detention and might be transferred to Libya. A Libyan | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
aircraft was dispatched as far as the Maldives, before it became | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
apparent that the Hong Kong authorities wouldn't allow it to | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
land. The CIA stepped in, offering to charter a plane to deliver the | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
detainee, but said that any help was contingent that Abu Munthir and | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
his family, will be treated humanely. Eventually the means were | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
found to get them to Libya, where he remained in jail for more than | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
five years. British intelligence officers visited him there. | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
British team, two people, one lady and one man. They came to see me. | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
Did you tell them you were being tortured? I couldn't, because I was | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
being tortured again. I can't say what I want. | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
At the time of Sami Al-Saadi's rendition, Britain and Libya had | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
become friends again. After paying out compensation to the victims of | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
Lockerbie, Colonel Gaddafi welcomed Tony Blair to his country. Trade | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
deals were done, and so were favours granted in the intelligence | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
business. A second leading member of the militant Libyan Jihadist | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
underground, Abdel Hakin Belhaj, was also bundled on a plane, and is | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
now seeking compensation. We wanted the British Government to apologise | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
for what it did against us. And for the injustice against us and the | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
mistakes made against us. Especially from the British | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
Intelligence Services. The Foreign Secretary at the time has, in the | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
past, denied authorising the Libyan renditions. Not only did we not | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
agree with it, we were not complicit in it, nor did we turn a | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
blind eye to it. No Foreign Secretary can know all the details | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
of what its intelligence agencies are doing at any one time. However, | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
sources in Whitehall have stressed that the transfers of Mr Al-Saadi | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
and Belhaj, were signed off, by political masters. Today Mr Straw | :05:31. | :05:41. | |
:05:41. | :05:45. | ||
Where does it end? The management of MI6 has been anxious to contain | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
the reputational damage from these Libyan cases, and avoid revealing | :05:50. | :05:59. | |
battles in UK courts. The Libyans - - Libyans' lawyers in this country | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
insist that shouldn't be the end of it. We need an inquiry into this | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
case, the Metropolitan Police are carrying on a criminal decision, | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
which goes right to the highest level of ministers, about | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
complicity in these potential crimes. That's the first step. But | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
then we really do need to know, both in this case, and generally, | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
if it was just what happened under the Blair regime, and in the | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
alliance with Bush, then, we need to know that too. Sami Al-Saadi has | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
said he accepted �2 million to prevent further suffering for his | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
family, and to fund their education. The British Government has learnt | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
its lessons from this saga too. There are plenty in the | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
intelligence business who argue that MI6 may now follow the law so | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
closely, that its ability to co- operate with others has been | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
undermined. First of all, you talked about, as | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
it were, staunching the reputational damage of MI6, will | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
this be enough? I think that's been the aspiration of their management | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
for some time. But people who were involved in the secret aspects of | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
these cases know, that they are going to be under scrutiny, | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
possibly for years to come, from the police investigation and also | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
there is a judicial inquiry under way. Now, as far as I can tell, | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
they seem to think that they might well be vindicated by those | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
inquiries, they feel they acted within the law at the time, and | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
therefore, they regard today's payout as not a particularly | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
positive or good thing, because it appears to cast doubt about the | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
behaviour that they saw as being quite legitimate. They now feel | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
compromised. �2.2 million of public money being handed out is quite a | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
lot of money. Do you think that this, for the Government at the | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
moment, this is the least worst option? The problem is things have | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
got tangled up, there is the Justice and Security Bill, being | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
debated at the moment. It is deeply politically controversial. Some | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
people in the secret world had been hoping that if this went through, | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
this would be safeguards against full disclosure, in civil cases, | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
and there would be other safeguards in criminal case, that would | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
prevent them having to reveal everything that plaintiffs might | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
want in some of these cases. There is a feeling that perhaps they | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
settled on this one, because they didn't want to have to contest this | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
case under existing rules. Because they have come a cropper before? | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
They have had to settle before. Thank you very much, with me is Ben | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
Emmerson QC, a human rights bars te, and the UN special raptor on human | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
rights and counter terrorism. Let's be clear the Government has | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
made no admission of liability on this one? That is absolutely right, | :08:46. | :08:53. | |
one needs to approach these things with caution and an open mind. What | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
your viewers will recall is in January last year, the inquiry set | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
up by David Cameron, under the chairmanship of Sir Peter Gibson, | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
was wound up precisely because of these two cases. Mr Belhaj's case | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
and Mr Al-Saadi's case, while police investigations continued. | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
The results of those investigations are not yet known. What we do know | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
is that two key documents that were found amongst the office in the | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
office of Mussa Kussa, following the fall of Tripoli, are the | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
smoking guns. When one sees the documents, and they are very, very | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
specific, they are some what more than smoking guns, they are a gun | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
with two smoking barrels. One is the memorandum from Sir Mark Alan, | :09:39. | :09:46. | |
then head of MI6's counter terrorism department, to Moussa | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
Kussa, formally acknowledging that he was responsible for the | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
rendition of Mr Belhaj. And decribing him as "air-cargo", the | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
other was the United States cable to the same effect in Mr Al-Saadi's | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
case. Do you think this is keeping all the intelligence out of court, | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
as Mark says? There is no question of that happening in this case. In | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
January, when Ken Clarke, the Justice Secretary, wound up the | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
Gibson Inquiry, he announced once the cases had been fully | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
investigated by the police, there would be a further judicial inquiry | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
into these cases. Are you disappointed that Mr Al-Saadi is | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
settled? No, I understand exactly why he has been settled, and I have | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
been in close consultation with his lawyers. I'm due to report on this | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
and other cases to the human rights council in March. Mr Al-Saadi had | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
four children, my understanding is that the offer that the UK | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
Government made was its first offer, that is the first point. It was an | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
awful of �2.2 million, first of all, secondly, it was an awful that it | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
was intended to xen -- an offer that was intended to compensate him | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
and his family. Had he chosen to fight on, it was clear to him and | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
made clear to him that the compensation to his children would | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
not be paid. Now we are in a situation where Mr Belhaj will not | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
settle? Mr Belhaj has made it absolutely clear that he intends to | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
continue to a final decision. Can I say this h this isn't just about | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
money, this isn't just about individual actions against the | :11:20. | :11:27. | |
Government, or the reputation of MI6. But they may be vindicated? | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
don't think there is any doubt that there was British and US Government | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
involvement in the transfer of these two men to Libya. Nor any | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
doubt that they were tortured during the course of their | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
detention in Libya. What the consequences of that are remain now | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
to be seen. You are pulling together all this for your report | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
in Geneva in March. But actually, it doesn't have any clout, does it, | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
in terms of US and British politicians? The position is this, | :11:57. | :12:06. | |
for a decade now, the crimes committed by the Bush era CIA and | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
the proxies in Europe, have gone -- proxys in Europe, have gone | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
shielded by the Government's in Europe. Now, just as we speak today, | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
that dam is beginning to crack. What happens next? What happens | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
today, apart from this case, is a decision of the European Court of | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
Human Rights, finding that Macedonia was responsible for rend | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
diction and, indeed, that the CI -- rendition, and indeed, the CIA | :12:33. | :12:43. | |
:12:43. | :12:46. | ||
inserted a truncheon into the anus of a man called Al-Masseri and they | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
have said that Macedonia was responsible there. There are cases | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
since Poland and Romania. Although the UK is not involved in any of | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
those, what is clear is the web of interaction between those states is | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
finally becoming under the light of public accountability. Thank you | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
very much indeed. Like Chairman Mao moo, we have | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
embarked on a long -- Chairman Mao, we have embarked on a long March to | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
improve our schools system. It is two years since Michael Gove set | :13:18. | :13:25. | |
off on the March, and the free school systems has started, 79 | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
opened and more to come. What is the impact on the children who | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
attend, the performance of the school, and the wider college of | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
schools. This is an end of term report. | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
Earlier this year Paul and Debbie Edwards made a difficult decision, | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
they took their 12-year-old daughter Rebecca, out of an | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
established local secondary school, where she had settled in, and put | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
her in a brand new free school near their home in Cheshire. I really, | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
really didn't want to come of the I wouldn't even touch the blazer or | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
anything, I didn't want to come. I didn't want to leave all my new | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
friends in the other school. after a term in the new school, | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
she's happy. Mum and dad persuaded me and said it was best for me. It | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
is like going to another home. It is nothing to be worried about. | :14:19. | :14:28. | |
far, there are just 38 pupils in Sandymoor School in Runcorn. That's | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
up from 19 at the start of term, and the headteacher says it is in | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
line with his plans. 21 of them are, like Rebecca, in year eight, they | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
have left other local secondary schools. There is a small amount of | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
people in each class, so it's like more one-to-one, and more help, and | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
the teachers make the lessons really good. They are really | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
friendly. And they don't treat you like children, they treat you like | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
adults, and if you respect them they will respect you back. For now, | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
the school is in temporary classrooms, thanks to capital | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
funding from the Department for Education, they should have a new | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
building here, in this adjoining field, by 2014, with room, they say, | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
for 900 children. It was a very hard decision, because it was just | :15:15. | :15:23. | |
an open field, it was absolutely a brand-new school, no Ofsted reports, | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
em. It was moving her away from her friends, she had settled into the | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
school she was in. It was a hard decision, but you have to do what's | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
best for your kids, you think. According to the Government, free | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
schools are set up in response to local demand, to improve education | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
for children in a community. They are competition for established | :15:45. | :15:52. | |
schools. What is your relationship like with the other local secondary | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
schools? Hmmph. Em, formal and professional. I think that they | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
feel we are a threat, I think they are worried about that competition. | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
I think they find that, for them, it is a challenge. For me it is | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
more about collaboration, it is more about how we can work together, | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
it is about young people, not small politics. The income of all schools | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
depends on how many pupils they have. They get funding directly | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
from the Department for Education, around �5,000 per head per year, in | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
this local authority, Halton. Here in Halton there is currently a | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
surplus of secondary school places, that is the way the free school | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
policy was intended to work. Partly by creating new kinds of schools, | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
partly by introducing real choice for parents, real competition | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
between schools. So pushing them to raise their standards. So, what | :16:50. | :16:57. | |
impact is the new free school having on other schools here? | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
going to burn some magnesium powder and compare rates of reaction. | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
miles from Sandymoor is The Heath, an outstanding school, according to | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
Ofsted, it is a big school, 250 pupils per year. They are moving | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
with the times, they have become an academy and starting their own | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
sixth form. The free school is not a threat to them, they say. As far | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
as The Heath goes, we are far from the free school, we are our ethos | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
and aims, I wouldn't be worried about it. I think we work really | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
well in collaboration with other schools. I can't comment how other | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
heads feel, I know there are surplus places in Runcorn schools | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
at the moment. That is a problem for schools? It could be a problem | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
for some schools. Two schools are most likely to be affected by the | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
free school, both with GCSE results below average. Neither was | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
available to talk to us. The local authority says if the free school | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
does expand, as planned, then other schools might have to cut teaching | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
posts and subjects. What I'm interested in is the impact on | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
other schools, we want every school in Halton to be a success. We also | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
have a responsibility for the pupils attending our schools today, | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
that their future education isn't threatened by their school not | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
being viable, or a large number of surplus placess, or money being | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
removed from their budgets, which otherwise would have gone to them. | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
Across the River Mersey, and to the north, lies the authority of | :18:28. | :18:38. | |
knowsly, while Halton's -- Knoosley, while Halton's results were the | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
highest in the area, their's are the lowest. The Government is | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
trying to get local people to support the idea of a free school. | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
That is how free school ideas are brought into being, there is no | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
central planning. Some parents believe schools should | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
improve by working more closely together, rather than by competing. | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
Stuart, on the piano, and Logan, on the violin, go to a North London | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
primary school that was forced to become an academy. Now, out of | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
local authority control, it is part of the Harris Federation. Their | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
mother, opposes free schools? want all children to have a good | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
education at their local school, now that some parents can form a | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
group and decide we're going to have this type of school for our | :19:26. | :19:35. | |
children. It is unfair. Schools in London have improved, thanks to the | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
London challenge programme, where schools, and local authorities work | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
together. It is not terrible, the education system here, it is not, | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
it is actually a success story. The secondary schools in London are a | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
massive success story, and the primaries aren't terrible. | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
Harris Federation say they run a family of schools, which support | :19:59. | :20:07. | |
each other to improve. London's population is growing, approaching | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
its record high. London councils estimate they will need 90,000 | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
extra school places within the next four years. So free schools in the | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
capital are less about providing parental choice, and competition | :20:20. | :20:30. | |
:20:30. | :20:32. | ||
between schools, and more about satisfying basic need. | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
This new free school in Enfield, down the road from the Williams | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
family, was so oversubscribed, they ended up taking two reception | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
classes instead of one. To Rachel Wolf, who helped make free schools | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
a reality, it is a sign that the policy works. But although nearly | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
200 free schools have been approved, or opened, there are around 23,000 | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
schools in England. She believes there must be more to make a bigger | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
impact. What we would really like to see going forward, is to | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
increase the flexibility of the programme. Particularly around | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
sites and Prom sis, which remains the big -- premises, which remains | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
the biggest challenge for groups across the country when opening a | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
school. If they could increase the flexibility in allocated capital | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
funding, you will see even more free schools coming forward. | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
Not all free schools have been successful. Two failed to open this | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
year, they hadn't enroled enough pupils. Others are not yet full. | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
Many have had difficulty finding sites. If there is urgent need, | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
local authorities sometimes support free schools, it is often the | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
easiest, quickest, cheapest way to get extra school place. But they | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
don't want to see them in areas where there is a surplus already. | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
What we would like to see is Government aproving free schools, | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
primarily where that will meet the basic need in the local area. And | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
secondly, where it creates surplus places to add competition in into | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
the community of local schools. Where there is such a desperate | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
shortage of school place, in London and the south-east of England and | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
across cities in the UK, we should be spending the money there first, | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
and locking at those areas where there is already maybe -- looking | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
at those areas where there is already 20% surplus places in the | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
free school systems afterwards. Government gave the free school | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
policy a boost this month, by promising money for 100 more. The | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
Department for Education told us they would be in areas where there | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
is the greatest pressure for school place, and that the majority of | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
free schools were in areas of basic need. They said they had no plans | :22:48. | :22:58. | |
to review the schools approved to open next year and beyond. | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
We did ask for a Government minister to appear on the programme, | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
to discuss their flagship free schools policy, none was available. | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
With me are the headteacher of the Bedford Free School, and parent and | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
former teacher, who is trying to open a new free school in Oxford, | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
Lucy Rhys a parent governor from Camden, where the schools have the | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
best Ofsteds in the country. And the headteacher of the West Bridge | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
Ford School. In your free school, what does it have that other free | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
schools have? We have deliberately gone out of our way to offer | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
something different to local parents. We are a secondary school | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
in an area with middle and upper schools for children. We are | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
smaller. It is not about competition? It is about giving | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
parents and students more choice and diversity. You heard Andrew | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
Green-Howard saying he has a professional relationship with the | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
local authority school, but he is seen as a threat? I don't see it | :23:57. | :24:03. | |
like that. Only this morning I was in the secondary school Heads' | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
meeting, we are working together like any other schools in the | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
family of schools. We are collaborating over things we have a | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
common interest in. That is always what has been done. People can | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
worry about new schools, but the evidence is that we are all getting | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
in there and getting stuck in like everybody else. From your point of | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
view, presume blie it is about choice, if it is all about choice - | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
- -- presumably it is about choice, and if it is all about choice, you | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
might not have the right provision? I don't think there is a | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
headteacher in the country that would want children to have to | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
select their school because they have no choice, and they have to. | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
That is the case for a lot of people at the moment? There is the | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
case for the free schools, and we would have to welcome free schools | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
into the education system, if they provide choice for parents, | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
particularly where there is need and there aren't enough secondary | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
school places. That, for me, the free school, would be a positive | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
outcome of the agenda. In your own area, you have good reports, there | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
is sufficient provision, and so you don't want free schools in your | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
area? As I say, I don't mind, and I don't object to choice. In my | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
particular circumstances, there are actually 12 secondary schools | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
within a three-mile radius, we are an outstanding school, and we are | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
confident that parents will still want to send their children to us. | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
Where you don't have a need for pupil places, and where there isn't | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
an issue to do with standards, is that the right place for a free | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
school. So basically what you are saying is you should only have free | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
school where there is a problem with the provision that exists at | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
the moment, you shouldn't have a free school where you have a school | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
like your's, doing well in Ofsted reports and whatever. It is not | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
necessarily about choice, it is about filling a gap? Well, as I'm | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
saying, I think there is plenty of choice, certainly in our area | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
already. But I'm really reflecting the DEFT criteria when they are | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
looking at free school, they do focus on is there enough school | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
provision in the area, and what is the standard of the local schools | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
in the area. You are trying to open a school, you have had one bash at | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
it so far. Why are you so desperate to have a free school? We're in | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
Oxford and there is a compelling need for more school places. By | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
2014, when we plan to open, there will be 200 places too few in the | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
system. There is a genuine and statistical need for more places, | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
we are asking -- answering a need in the city and improving the | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
outcome for the kids. You are a teacher and very well best placed | :26:45. | :26:51. | |
to know what to do about creating a free school, are you saying that | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
actually rather than improve the local authority provision, you need | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
a free school to, in a sense, to up their provision, is it about that. | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
Is it about driving everybody upwartds? We have been careful not | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
to use the word "choice" or "competition", we don't think it is | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
about choice but good local schools for everybody. There is a need for | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
more schools in the city, the schools in the city are trying to | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
improve, and there is good teachers trying to improve their schools. I | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
wish them well in doing. That we are not in competition with them. | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
There is scope, they recognise this, to improve what they are doing, | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
they recognise the challenge. is the case that is thrs not enough | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
provision, that is why you -- there is not enough provision, that is | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
why you can start a free school, but it is an issue with the kind of | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
provision? We are answering both of those issues, there are free | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
schools where they are not, one of the unfortunate things is there is | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
an opportunity with this policy, and the academy programme, to | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
increase the amount of innovation in the system, there should be more. | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
Therefore, surely what you want to do in Oxford is what you should | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
support? I don't support it. It is not needed. My children go to | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
schools in Camden, a recent Ofsted report said that children who live | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
in Camden have the best chance in the whole of Britain to go to a | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
good or outstanding school, our schools are controlled by the local | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
authority who do a brilliant job. What I think, this gentleman...What | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
Happens when you are in schools in areas where, as was said, the | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
provision is neither sufficient to the need, or indeed, as far as he's | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
concerned, challenging enough? Government has decided that the | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
only new schools it is going to build are free schools and | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
academies, that is a policy. There is no reason why money couldn't be | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
given to his local authority, the Government has decided against that. | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
That is a political and ideolgical decision. It is really interesting, | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
everyone wants their children and the children in the local area to | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
go to really good local schools, no-one is arguing against that. The | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
key thing for me is, who are the people best placed to decide what | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
is the right kind of school for their child? Experts? I think you | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
should come to talk to the nearly 200 set of familiar a parents who | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
sent their children to our school. I think the idea that other people | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
know better than them what is right for their child, they might find a | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
little bit patronising. I have just had such good experiences of the | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
people who run my local school. My children go to, I have two children | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
in the school system, one is too young for school, basically, | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
particularly the older child, the school is fantastic, they work very | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
closely, one of the things I like particularly about the way it | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
operates, it offers a joined-up service. If your child needs extra | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
service, it gets it and joins up with other agencies. Maybe a free | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
school could do that. But there is a co-ordinated approach to | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
education that I like. Listening to this from your perspective here, | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
what we seem to be saying, certainly from this point of view, | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
is actually people are losing faith in local authorities to make the | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
best provision for the children, not necessarily in Camden, that is | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
what you are saying. Not necessarily in your school. But do | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
you accept that some people actually do not trust the local | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
authority to be the best provider? Yes, I'm sure there are examples of | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
that around the country, where local authorities have failed local | :30:00. | :30:07. | |
parents for many, many years. I would emphasise the point with free | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
schools, they can work and be very successful, where there is a lack | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
of school place provision in the area. Or that schools themselves in | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
those areas have been failing parents for some time. Where you do | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
have very good local schools, providing high-quality education | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
for parents, and where there isn't the need for school places, then | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
actually they can have a destablising effect on those | :30:29. | :30:36. | |
excellent skoolgs. A destablising - - Schools. A destablising effect? | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
No, where we came along there was a balance in the supply of places, | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
and we have created another 100 places per year group. That is | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
undoubtedly having an affect on local schools, as we are adjusting. | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
It might have a detrimental effect, it might be that those schools are | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
deemed to fail and the budgets close, that is the market then? | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
some parts of the town the children weren't going to local schools and | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
driving miles to go everywhere else. While we have above the average | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
number of free school meals, they have had those coming from the | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
independent sector, to bring more students into state education, I | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
think that is a fantastic thing. The free schools are doing that. | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
don't think you need the free school, you can support local | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
authorities f a local authority isn't doing well, why can't it be | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
supported, why can't the moneying shared out. We have in Camden, you | :31:31. | :31:38. | |
have heads that will go, our head at Toriano free school is going to | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
another school to help them improve, why not have people working | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
together to help the local authority, I want to see schools | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
sharing. There is generations of attempts to improve the school | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
system, the national strategies did great work, it has hit a wall. I | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
think there is an opportunity for innovation and fresh blood into the | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
system. We need to look at how we can einvolve the school system. | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
Isn't it the case -- Evolve the school system. It is on the fringes | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
and it seems a middle-class endeavour, if free schools are | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
going to provide a proper alternative, there needs to be a | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
critical mass, as Rachel Wolf says, there needs to be more. At the | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
moment we are around about 450,000 school places short, and the free | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
schools will only provide 250,000 of those. Maybe we do need to do | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
more. I think the key thing I want to say is that the structural | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
school does not in any way preclude, innovation, working together. By | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
opening up the system to new groups coming in. Two thirds of new | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
schools being opened are teacher groups like mine. The Government | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
set them up for competition t but you guys are saying where they are | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
is where there is a lack of provision? In our case that is not | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
the case. Our standards at 16 are well below the national average, | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
and what drove us on, three years ago, a group of teachers talking | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
together, the idea that by the time a child has sat their GCSEs they | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
have spent 14,000 hours in the classroom, and I don't know how | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
many tens of thousands of pounds invests in theired education, do we | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
really think that only 55% of our children in our country are capable | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
of reading and writing and adding up. Absolutely not, the teachers | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
are great and schools are great, we need to get closer to every child | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
achieving that. What I see about free schools, you are a passionate | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
educator and a nice guy, what is worrying is business will move in | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
on it. Most parents like myself haven't the time or energy to set | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
up school, but there are lots of big companies out there gag to go | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
get their hand on education budgets. That is my fear about them. That is | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
why decided today get on board. We are worn out people trying to do | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
this t the reason we are doing it is because there is a window at the | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
moment, whether for-profit comes into schools and the academy chains, | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
that are waiting, at the moment we can control the process as parents. | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
Five months ago the cleaning staff of the Department of Work and | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
Pensions left letters on the ministerial desk they cleaned, | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
complaining about their wages. Now, rather than the minimum wage, their | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
demands are to be met, and they will be paid a living wage, that is | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
�7.45 in London, and less outside London. Is this a new kind of | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
bargaining power, directly where it hurts. What if you are not a big | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
public employer or a large company, could your company cope with such | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
demand, and should the minimum wage just go. We will hear from two | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
owners of smaus small business, one who pays a living -- of small | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
business, one who pays a living wage and one that doesn't. What do | :34:39. | :34:47. | |
you want for clis mass? -- Christmas? For these people, | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
campaigning outside the Department for Work and Pensions in London, it | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
is a pay rise, that is what they have done. 450 low-paid catering | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
and cleaning staff, working for the Government's contractors, will, | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
from April 2014, get paid what is known as the living wage. | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
At the moment the national minimum wage for those over 21 is �6.19 an | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
hour, employers have to pay this by law. Over the past few years, a | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
campaign has grown to say this isn't nearly enough to live on. | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
�7.45 is the figure we're told that is required to meet the normal | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
costs of living. It is called the living wage, and it is higher in | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
London, at �8.55 an hour. Although there are clearly tidings | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
of great joy here at the DWP tonight. Let's be clear on what | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
happened, the DWP maintained they didn't make it a condition that the | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
company pay their workers more. And the company says, that they are | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
absorbing the full costs. It is difficult to make the case that | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
this is a profound shift in Government or party policy. No, | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
what we might be witnessing here, though, is a shift in industrial | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
power in Britain, the rise of something like soft industrial | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
power. The living wage campaign gained | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
national prominence over the summer, when Newsnight reported that | :36:08. | :36:18. | |
Government cleaner, Valdimar venture ra, had left a letter on | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
Nick Clegg's desk asking for the living wage. | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
He was moved on, but Nick Clegg has written and asked him to return. | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
This has caused a lot of problems. I didn't sleep in two months. My | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
wages were down, my families as well -- family's as well, I have | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
given a lot of support but it is not easy to pass now. Now I'm very | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
happy, because I know so many politicians give me support. | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
living wage for the UK is calculated by Loughborough | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
University, they take into account such factors as rent, council tax | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
and childcare, what their computer spits out is lots of different | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
living wages. Ranging from �6 an hour for someone in a child less | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
couple, to a whopping �18.57 for a lone parent with three children. | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
These individual living wages are then weighted by how common that | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
group is in the population as a whole, to come up with one national | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
figure. The politicians do seem to be | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
getting on board the idea of a living wage, from Boris Johnson in | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
London, Nick Clegg and David Cameron in Government, and Ed | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
Miliband in opposition. He says a Labour Government would name and | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
shame big companies, who don't pay the living wage. In Scotland too, | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
the Scottish Government and many local authorities are now committed | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
to paying it. Obviously increasing the lowest rate of pay in the | :37:45. | :37:53. | |
council to �7.50 an hour, living rate, does come at a cost. But we | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
have looked at the figures carefully, we can afford it. As I | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
believe it will not just benefit the employees who receive the extra | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
money per hour, it will benefit the local economy. While there might be | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
a small cost to implement it, the greater good for Edinburgh | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
outweighs that. It will generate income spending into the local | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
economy. The costs for businesses vary. | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
According to research from the Resolution Foundation, the living | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
wage would add considerably to some sectors. For example, bars and | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
restaurant, rising 6.2%, general retailers 4.9%, and food and drug | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
retailers 4.7%. There is less of an impact on other sectors, banks | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
least hit, a living wage would odd 0.2 to their costs. Robert runs a | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
string of care homes in Scotland, local authorities are his biggest | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
customer, it supports the living wage in principle, but worries who | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
will meet the cost. At a time when we are all struggling, and in my | :38:55. | :39:03. | |
view, councils are struggling as well. It is really such a poor and | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
bad time n my view, it doesn't make any sense at all to be introducing | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
it at this current time. Having it as an aspiration, and a goal we | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
should all be looking to get to, in four or five years time or | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
something, and work out a way of trying to get there, then fine, I'm | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
all for that. To force us to do it when we have nowhere to go. | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
Meanwhile, at the BWP, the campaigners are sending a thank you | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
to the minister. The impact of moving from the minimum to the | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
living wage is clearly huge for individuals, it is less clear what | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
it means for the economy as a whole, and what it means for tax-payers | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
and consumers, whose own finances are already under pressure. The | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
politics seems to be moving more and more in its favour. Well, Jan | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
Cavell runs her own furniture company in Suffolk, she has 30 | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
employees and is against the living wage. Miles Carroll is the chief | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
executive of an on-line payments company in Staffordshire and | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
employs 16 people, he renegotiated with staff to make sure everyone | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
was earning the living wage. You didn't get letters on the table, | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
but what persuaded you? It is always the right time to do the | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
right thing. When we saw the campaign, it really struck us as | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
the appropriate thing to do, so that we could run our business in | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
the best way we can, by attracting the right people, retaining those | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
people, and making sure our customers were well served. You are | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
saying rather than an economic argument, or a moral argument with | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
an economic benefit eventually? made the moral decision first and | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
backed it with good business. is not possible for you, it is not | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
what you want? I would love to be able to pay all my employees as | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
much as possible. You know, it is not a question of it, it is a | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
different type of business entirely. It as different structure. I'm in | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
manufacturing, which is very different, of course, from you. In | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
fact I'm in a very specific part of manufacturing in furniture. We have | :41:15. | :41:22. | |
now direct competitors, we have lots of competition that never | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
quite does the same thing as us. We can't get for some areas, we can't | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
get people to come in ready skilled. You are pay the minimum wage while | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
you train them? Absolutely. You know there isn't, because I have | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
tried, the equivalent on Government apprenticeship schemes. Financially | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
have you said like him that it would benefit you eventually? | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
doesn't for a variety of reasons. We can't get the skill off the | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
street. We have to do the training. You subsidise it for the first two | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
or three years and then they are trained up? What would be your | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
argument to say that she should take the leap and see what happens? | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
I think customers will follow value. We will understand what a business | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
stand for, and they will buy into that. We are all about innovation, | :42:09. | :42:16. | |
qal and excellence. That comes from our people, not from our -- quality | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
and excellence, that comes from our people not business. You use it | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
like a calling card? We have, categorically, in the last four | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
months, won business from promoting that. We promote excellence too, we | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
train our staff to be skilled craftmen, that takes time and going | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
through a process. Interestingly are you concerned about your own | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
staff seeing the power of the living wage and saying here is the | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
minimum wage and a living wage, it doesn't appear an hourly rate to be | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
so different? Starting line, I don't pay on the line of minimum | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
wage. I pay under a starting point of what the living wage would be, | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
depending on what they set it at, there is talk of �8 for next year. | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
What do you feel about big business, particularly, let's leave big | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
business to one side, talk about public, local authorities, who | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
essentially are saying, for example, as they are doing in Edinburgh, we | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
are now going to move to the living wage, but as a taxpayer you helping | :43:19. | :43:26. | |
to pay for that. And you would then, as it,were penalised? I think it is | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
horrendously worrying for small business, like myself, struggling | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
to break even, or not, for the last few years, and we're trying | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
desperately to keep staff in work, those staff have stayed local and | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
on low wages. You get a situation where it is enforced bringing in | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
wages at a higher level. What happens to the staff who have moved | :43:47. | :43:55. | |
up and grafted. If we wanted for newcomers to come in at the same | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
wage. It would be gross. Do you think the days will soon be | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
numbered with the campaign and everybody that responds to it, but | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
you will have both the minimum wage and the living wage? Picking up the | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
point around salies, as a country we are one of the richest countries | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
out there, GDP �36,000 in the UK. We can't do a race to the bottom on | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
salaries against countries like China, with a quarter of our income. | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
Ultimately we have to innovate and change. When we look at our | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
business, operating in niche, exactly as January's business does, | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
my -- Jan's business does and my business dose t proebgttebgts us | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
from that. We have to do -- does protect us from that. | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
Presumably the living wage would help the poor in a trap at the | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
moment? I preerpbt that, of course I do, but -- appreciate that, of | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
course I do, but equally getting the economy going will also help. | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
You know I just find it the most mammoth Government double sync that | :44:58. | :45:04. | |
they ask us to buy into, you know, understanding that it is the age of | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
austerity, because there isn't any money available. Yet they can turn | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
around to businesses who they are asking to rescue them from the | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
whole thing, from this whole thing, and they can say to business, well | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
you may not be able to afford it, but you have to pay out any way. | :45:21. | :45:31. | |
:45:31. | :45:54. | ||
Where is the justice in that. That's all tonight, Jeremy is | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
staying up late tomorrow night, I will be back with review. Join us | :45:57. | :46:07. | |
:46:07. | :46:33. | ||
Good evening, just in time for the weekend, milder weather moving its | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
way into the UK. But for Friday it does come tied up with some very | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
wet and windy conditions as well. Particularly to the south of the UK, | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
some heavy downpours on their way. By the afternoon perhaps some of | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
the heavyist of the rain sitting across northern England, into East | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
Anglia and the south-east. The afternoon should see the rain | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
easing some what, along the south coast, but the morning could be | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
tricky, partly because of high tides and the south-easterly wind | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
direction. There will be a risk of coastal flooding, applying to the | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
Bristol Channel too. Rain in the afternoon, despite that much milder | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
than of late, temperatures in double figures, it will feel chilly | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
in the wet and windy conditions. Northern Ireland in for a wet day, | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
a risk of coastal flooding in south eastern areas. For Scotland a risk | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
of blizzards ayes cross the Grampian, strong wind and some -- | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
across the Grampians, strong wind, but the rain not until the late in | :47:31. | :47:41. | |
:47:41. | :47:45. |