Browse content similar to 20/12/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's plebgate, is it becoming plodgate, today the Police | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
Federation was effectively lobbying a move towards a possible apology. | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
I will wait to see what happens in relation to the investigation. If | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
he has been done a disservice in relation to what has happened, I | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
will be first in the queue to apologise. Why is the relationship | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
between the Government and the police so fraught. Also tonight, | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
the kings of the credit crunch. Thousands of pawnbrokers filling a | :00:41. | :00:48. | |
gap in the market for the rich and the poor. There is no other choice, | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
really. I wouldn't go to my family for money, I would rather use what | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
I have got myself. We will talk to one MP who thinks the rules need to | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
be toughened up. And Vladimir Putin threatens to retaliate against an | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
American ban on corrupt Russian officials, will he really stop | :01:08. | :01:18. | |
:01:18. | :01:21. | ||
Americans adopting Russian children. Good evenings. While the police | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
investigate the role played in Andrew Mitchell's downfall by an e- | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
mail sent by an offduty officer, who allegedly claimed to be a | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
member of the public. The former Home Secretary, Kenneth Baker, have | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
has accused the Police Federation of using the affair for political | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
ends. In the days following the dispute, not only did they want to | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
get a cabinet minister but they also wanted to use it as a | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
campaigning tool between Government and officials. The Police | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
Federation has denied this, but the chairman says he will apologise if | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
there was a disservice committed. We will look at why the relations | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
between Government and rank and file officers are so strained. | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
First we have this. And so, it appears, we might have | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
to say farewell to that rather clumsy label "plebgate" and give a | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
cautious, but weary reincarnation, "plodgate". Was there a conspiracy | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
to fit up the former Chief Whip. That is a question we still can't | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
answer. Today the Metropolitan Police made a second arrest in | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
their on going investigation. There are questions too for dam yofpblt | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
how come it took Channel 4 to uncover, David Cameron, how come it | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
took Channel 4 to uncover significant questions on the | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
strength of evidence against Andrew Mitchell. When David Cameron's own | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
cabinet secretary, Jeremy Heywood, had been given the job of | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
investigating and had access to a...We Have a programme of reform | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
that the police have actually been in need of for 30 years, really. | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
How has that gone down, that combination of measures? The Police | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
Federation has opposed each of those measures, tooth and nail, and | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
with as emotional a campaign as any public sector union has done. | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
are the actions of a Police Federation in furthering their aims | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
the legitimate campaigning of a representative body, or have they | :03:16. | :03:23. | |
tipped into moral blackmail and bullying. | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Home Secretary, do you sleep at night? There are not many playing | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
nice cop at the Police Federation Conference, if you are the Home | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
Secretary. Today, the Police Federation answered questions for | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
the first time, about their actions during the Mitchell affair. I think | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
it is unfortunate that we are three months down the line and only now | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
finding out what some of these facts were at the very start. | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
Seeing the CCTV footage, seeing the fact that there was apparently some | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
police officer purporting to be a member of the public, that sort of | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
thing. It is unfortunate it has taken three months for those facts | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
to come out. It is clear that Andrew Mitchell is now a far more | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
relaxed figure, given the events of the week. Happy Christmas. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
Relations between the police and the Government are now more tense | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
than ever. I'm joined from Brighton by the | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
former Home Secretary, Lord Baker, from Newcastle the best-selling | :04:21. | :04:31. | |
diarist, Chris Mullen, and with me in the studio Mr Hurly, a former | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
senior official at Scotland Yard, and Mike Pannett. The Police | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
Federation was not available to come on tonight. The police are in | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
a situation where they are not allowed to strike. Surely they have | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
every right to take the battle to the Government wherever they can? | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Of course they can protest, I'm not objects to that at all. The police | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
are in real trouble this year. We had the Hillsborough affair, where | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
there was fabricated evidence, and the Rotherham affair where the | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
police didn't prosecute people who were abusing young girls. And the | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
extraordinary episode of a police officer pretending to be a member | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
of the public, fabricating evidence, totally false evidence, saying | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
there was a crowd. Let's be clear these are still allegations, Lord | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
Baker on the last point? Sorry? They are still allegations? | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
Certainly allegations. I believe the Police Federation had decided | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
they had saw a wounded cabinet minister and they decided to strike | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
and bring him down. They ran an overtly political campaign. They | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
produced T-shirts and banners at the Tory Party conference. They | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
were using this as an attack upon the Government which, they dislike. | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
They don't like the review that has been set up into their pay and | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
conditions and early retirement. As a result they behaved atrociously | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
and unfairly. Let me put that to the studio. Atrociously unfairly, | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
it looked like the Police Federation were being gleeful and | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
acting in a cheap way? I come from the point of view of trying to | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
deliver for the people of sury. My concern is to make sure the morale | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
of and motivation of police officers is fit for purpose. Would | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
you have been happy if a police officer in your area was wearing | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
those T-shirts, maybe they were? don't know if they were. The | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
strongest weapon the police always have is to retain their dignity and | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
remain measured. Did they lose it by having those T-shirts? They Z | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
there is a huge measure of from us trai, they have seen the starting | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
numbers of police constables cut to �14,000 a year, less than a | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
community support officer. average police officer is on more | :06:44. | :06:54. | |
:06:54. | :06:54. | ||
than �40,000 ay, and one in four met constables are on more than | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
that? There are a number of police officers on that salary, but the | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
nature and number of police officers we can recruit on that | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
money, I want quality people to protect the Surrey population. | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
Chris Mullen, you have long experience of the police, are you | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
surprised that the federation acts in such a vehement way? -- acted in | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
such a vehement way? Not in the least. They have a long track | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
record of bullying and intimidating people who get in their way, be | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
they journalists or politicians or whoever. I have been monstered by | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
them myself in days gone by. quick example of being bullied, you, | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
personally, bullied, really? I was the chairman of the Home Affairs | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
Select Committee some years a and we conducted an inquiry into -- ago, | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
and we conducted an inquiry into reforming police procedure, and as | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
a result of some not very controversial remarks I made, they | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
started ringing up the Home Secretary, demanding that he call | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
for my dismissia. Then they rang the opposition home affairs | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
spokesman and made the same demand. Then they rang round each member of | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
the committee, demanding they disassociate themselves from me. | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
All of them declined, as it happened. But, and I, you know, | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
don't complain about that, because I'm politician, and I don't -- I'm | :08:14. | :08:22. | |
a politician, and I know the heat of the kitchen. This is modus Peter | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
Mandelson die. Is that OK -- Modus operandi. | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
have been called the last unreformed public service, is there | :08:31. | :08:38. | |
real rancour there? What is in here, is the rank and file officers and | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
their morale is at an all-time low. I have heard to Lord Baker and | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
listening to comments made by the federation and the rest. The real | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
question here, yes there is issues between federation and Government, | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
I have never known it so bad. That is not good for policing and | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
governance. Do you think, just on the very point that Lord Baker was | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
saying, do you think there is a defensiveness in the police, | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
Hillsborough, Leveson and so forth? There is dreadful things happening | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
within policing, and a lot of those, like Hillsborough, big inquiries | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
taking place. Taking it back, while we are all sitting here, looking at | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
the months. We are looking at the original incident, where the Chief | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
Whip has come to the gates of Downing Street and there has been | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
an altercation at those gates. Those officers have then reported | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
what was said. We have to remember this is all about what did the | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
Chief Whip say. I have no doubt, neither has the commissioner, | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
Hogan-Hoe, about the integrity of those two police officers that have | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
said what was said. All through this Mitchell has never said what | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
he did say. If he had just said he was sorry, and he need not have | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
said what he used, but he said in the end he said he didn't say | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
anything, then he said I did swear, but I didn't say what those | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
officers have said. Lord Baker, do you think what has been said about | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
the sequence of events there, and the idea if Andrew Mitchell had | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
spoken quickly it would have diffused this, is symptomatic of | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
the bad relationship between the police and the Government? Andrew | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
Mitchell apologised several times, he responded very quickly what you | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
might be witnessing here is a grave error of injustice. In fact, from a | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
police officer. We know that one is lying, total lo. And could I just | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
say to the commissioner. -- Totally. And could I just say to the | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
commissioner. We are at allegation stage at the moment? He needs to | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
try to restore the trust of the British public in the police, I | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
don't think that begins with talking about their pay and | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
salaries. In fact, there is a lack of trust at the moment, that is | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
very, very disturbing. Because you have got the British public who | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
have to have trust in their police. Let me talk about that, the trust | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
in the police is very, very important. And Lord Baker, and | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
Chris Mullen too there were two reports, the Sheehy report, that | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
wasn't implemented, that was a real struggle, and the Windsor Report, | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
there has to be some kind of accommodation. Why is it so hard to | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
come to that? Lord Baker is correct. We need to rebuild the trust in the | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
whole way in which the police are viewed. But they are still regarded | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
very, very highly. But what is this amounting to, there has been a | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
break down of relationships between Government and the Police | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
Federation. You saw that there, you saw the remark to Theresa May, "Do | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
you sleep at night?" Why should the Home Secretary go to the | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
conference? Because she's the leader, she needs to influence the | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
people she's working with. The real problem we have got here, is like | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
everybody else in society they are having their pay and conditions cut. | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
They are also having huge changes done to the sway they operate, | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
which causes them to believe they are considered as lesser citizens, | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
their bosses have been replaced by people who have never been in the | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
police before. You are talking about Tom Windsor? And other people, | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
they are told all their promotions are stopped and people coming in | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
with three years service to replace them. I come at this, not as a | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
police officer, but a politician, who wants to maintain the morale of | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
the work force. Maybe you don't agree, or you do that actually the | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
Police Service does need reform, and it should take a hit like so | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
many other services are having to take at the moment. We are still in | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
recessionary times? I agree that the police have to take cuts like | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
so many other public sector organisations. What I don't | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
necessarily agree with is actions that damage the overall morale and | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
sense of value of the Police Service. Some of the things, this | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
isn't just from the police point of view, just about the salaries, it | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
is about the fact that people have been brought in, three years in | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
charge of whole shifts of people. Chris Mullen, do you think that on | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
the Government side there hasn't been a sensitive handling, for | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
example, the commissioner there talks about Tom Windsor coming n | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
Tom Windsor's report, and he became Inspector of Constabulary, he has | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
never been a police officer? They have seen off all comers over the | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
last 20 or 30 years when it comes to reform. There is scope for | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
considerable reform in relation to, not only, well in particular to | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
some of the police practices, and great waste of resources, sometimes. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
I have to say as well, there is nothing new about this, they say | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
that morale is at an all-time low, I have heard that at least half-a- | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
dozen time in the last 20 years. The fact is, given a succession of | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
home secretaries, they have mistreated a succession of hoves | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
ministers in their conferences, they were slow hand-clapping Will | :13:47. | :13:56. | |
Straw, during the 19 -- 2005 general election. This isn't a | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
party plea? The only point I make to you, is not particularly a | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
grudge against this Government. has it come to this, in a situation | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
where we need the public to trust and have faith in police officers, | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
they do a job where they put their lives at risk day in day out, but | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
we are now where partly as a result of the Andrew Mitchell affair, what | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
happens to it, we might be facing discussions, conversations, | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
negotiating where even more axe crown mus -- that are even more | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
acrimonious with the outcome of this case? Going back to what Lord | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
Baker said about Andrew Mitchell offering an apology, he said he | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
didn't say what the officers said, he brought into question the | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
integrity of those officers. I have said today, I think the public are | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
fed up with what's going on. We have seen political points going | :14:49. | :14:58. | |
from all sides, it has to stop. This is about policing, and this is | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
about policy. We have to get the two together, there should be a | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
common cause, that should be to deal with people who are making | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
people's lives a misry that is what policing is about. Here we are | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
months down the line, there are dreadful things, and cuts happening | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
within the police, and issues within policing. And it may be that | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
Andrew Mitchell is back in a cabinet post soon. What do you | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
think the likelihood of that is? That is quite possible. Can I make | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
a point about Tom Windsor, the police should not really object to | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
somebody outside the police force being their Chief Inspector, the | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
prisons have been inspected now for many years by people who have | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
nothing to do with the Prison Service. They did very, very good | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
reports. The police have always said this is our particular field, | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
no-one else must take an interest in it at all. I think things have | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
to move on from. That that is part of winning back the trust. The | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
police have to answer to somebody, they should be answering to the new | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
commissioners. One of the things that should be happening is that. I | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
still think the politicisation of the police would be disastrous of | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
our economiccy, for our democracy, and the chairman needs to change | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
his tune. And the chairman tonight, the weasel words of that, that if | :16:13. | :16:20. | |
Andrew Mitchell is found knot not guilty we will apologise. | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
apologise for the technical problems in the film previous to | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
this discussion. Pawnbrokers will always be | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
associated with dark Dickensian London. By the end of the 20th | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
century awful them had shut up shop. By 1980 there were 50 branches left | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
in the UK. Now the industry is thriving anew, filling a yawning | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
gap as banks stop lending, and both poor and rich struggle to find | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
credit. There are now more than 2,000 pawn shop. As we report, that | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
number is expected to rise further as the squeeze on household incomes | :16:55. | :17:05. | |
:17:05. | :17:05. | ||
continue. Somewhere deep in the Surrey hills, | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
a hidden mile of tunnels. 5,000 aircraft workers, sheltered | :17:12. | :17:20. | |
here in the Second World War. The men and women who made the | :17:20. | :17:28. | |
Hurricane fighter. Untouched for half a century, these cold, dry | :17:28. | :17:36. | |
tunnels, are now being used for something very different. This is a | :17:36. | :17:43. | |
Chateau Petrus 2000, it is about �18,000 worth of wine per crate. A | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
six box is about �3,000 a bottle. James Constantinou is storing | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
�500,000 worth of wine down here. These bottles of Bordeaux are not | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
his to drink. James is a pawnbroker, he set up three years ago. Lending | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
not just to individuals but to companies, struggling in the | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
downturn. 30% of the time they haven't been able to source funding | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
for their business side of things, so they are looking for funding | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
that they are going to pump into their business. So they may be | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
borrowing the money as a private individual, but they are using it | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
for business purposes. Those customers have included a | :18:21. | :18:31. | |
:18:31. | :18:32. | ||
restaurant, pawning its wine collection to pay bills and wages. | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
Back above ground, a petrolhead's dream. All pawns are locked up for | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
safe keeping. A high-end sports car, or a plane gold ring, the | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
transaction is the same. If you don't pay on time, your item will | :18:47. | :18:56. | |
be sold, or melted down to cover the debt. Mark Landsberg runs his | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
own IT business, he handed over the keys to his Porsche last month, to | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
raise �20,000 to pay a looming tax bill. | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
Why not go to a bank and get a straight loan? Forget t the banks | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
are useless nowadays. You can't get money out of a bank for business | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
unless it is made of solid gold, and you have more assets than you | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
are borrowing. Pawning his car meant no credit check and little | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
paperwork, the cash was in his account hours later. Interest | :19:23. | :19:30. | |
charges on a loan like this go from 2% a month, right up to 7%. Do you | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
worry about the stigma attached to pawnbroking, does it send a message | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
out to people you do business with, that there's something wrong? | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
is the same question you could have asked my mother 20 years ago about | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
credit cards and higher purchase. She never had those in her life | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
because of the associated stigma. The bank loan you can't get for a | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
month. They want a year out of you, and there is penalties if you want | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
to pay back early. You haven't got the flexibility, if you like. | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
Those same trends, same market forces, are even more obvious on | :20:05. | :20:13. | |
the high streets. With banks not lending, pawnbrokers have quickly | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
filled the gap. 200 have soped this year alone, the real growth -- | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
opened this year alone, the real growth story of the credit crunch. | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
Three of those new stores belong to one of the oldest names in the | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
business. Fish Brothers, first opened its | :20:32. | :20:40. | |
doors almost two centuries ago. This, though, is how it looks today, | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
all modern counters and slick marketing. A redesign this year, | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
meant to make it look less Victorian money-lender, more high | :20:51. | :21:01. | |
:21:01. | :21:06. | ||
street bank. These are a pawnbrokers right hand equipment, | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
these were still in use when I started. This is a fifth generation | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
worker in the business. The business was about to die, and now | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
he has seen it grow at its strongest rate in more than a | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
century. The recession has affected middle-classes, that has affected | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
pawn brokers because the middle- classes are using us in a way they | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
never have before. Our average loan over the last four or five years | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
has gone up, I think, by a factor of six. Wages haven't risen, and | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
people have accepted the fact that they haven't got a wage rise, but | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
they still have a job. A lot of firms are hanging in there, and | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
holding on to as many people as they can, and the result of that is, | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
people's income is being squeezed. I wondered if you could tell me how | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
much you could give me for those on pawning, please? Not a problem. | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
Today I have come in to pawn some coins, a sovereign which my father | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
gave me for my 21st birthday, a Kruger and a coin I received on his | :22:12. | :22:20. | |
death when he died, and a gold $10 coin, so I can buy some gas bottles | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
to heat my flat. I want enough to heat my flat for the next month, | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
and maybe some Christmas presents if people are lucky. | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
Jeanine is a regular here, as well as new clients, Fish Brothers is | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
seeing its traditional customers, borrowing larger amounts. On those | :22:40. | :22:48. | |
ones we can do �1800 on those coins. The rising price of gold has made | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
the coins more valuable. 90% of customers like this repay their | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
loans own time, and get their pawned items back. Without pawning, | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
without that money you get from here, what would happen? I wouldn't | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
be able to buy the gas bottles until I next get paid, Will which | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
will be at least another two weeks. I would have two weeks without | :23:11. | :23:20. | |
heating. Is there no other option to get money, if it is not this, | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
what is the implication? There is no other choice, really. I wouldn't | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
go to my family for money, for a gas bottle. I would rather use what | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
I have got myself, and raise the money that way. Then pay it back | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
when I get paid. Why not go to your family, or your mum? They are | :23:44. | :23:53. | |
pensioners. They are feeling tough times as well. For many, the | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
pawnbroker is not just a quick solution. Would you like an | :23:57. | :24:03. | |
envelope? It is now the only choice. But, at 5-6% interest, every month, | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
it could never be described as cheap. | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
Whichever way you look at it, pawnbroking is not a cheap option, | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
it is an expensive way to borrow money? It is if you are doing it | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
long-term, I'm talking about years. If you are talking about months, | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
which is what pawnbroking is actually aimed at, then it is an | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
expense -- it isn't expensive. Don't you rely on repeat customers, | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
don't the people you speak about come back again and again, and it | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
is all short-term loan, when you add them up they are expensive? | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
They haven't got a bank account, and if you come to the pawnbroker, | :24:41. | :24:51. | |
:24:51. | :24:55. | ||
they are into a totally regulated These are incredible survivals. | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
Someone has pawned a pair of boots. They have got two shillings for | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
that. And even more poignant, I think, is that there is a ticket | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
here of someone in 1907, who has pawned a blanket. One shilling and | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
sixpence. Look at the date, 9th of December, in the cold mid-winter | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
they are having to pawn their blanket, really tragic ticket. | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
You have to go back a long way to find the last time pawnbrokers | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
played such a major role in British life. At the turn of the last | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
century, there were more than 700 in London, one on almost every | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
street corner of the East End. was like a buffer for working | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
people, without this support probably people would have starved, | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
actually. This actually gave them a little bit of money, week by week, | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
to the -- enable them to survive. Wages were very, very low at this | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
period, really, it was actually essential they found a way to get | :26:00. | :26:10. | |
:26:10. | :26:16. | ||
some money to buy. Usually it was to buy food. Sometimes it is hard | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
to listen to some of the stories, they are pretty heart-breaking. | :26:21. | :26:31. | |
:26:31. | :26:31. | ||
But on the other hand, I'm there to help them, in a sense. The back | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
room of Gemini Jewellers, on the Isle of Sheppey. Here pawnbroking | :26:36. | :26:46. | |
is still done the old fashioned way. The staff know all their customers, | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
privacy and discretion are an important part of the business. It | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
is busy, but few customers want to speak on camera. You do keep it | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
under wraps a bit. I quite enjoy it t I have come to know the girls | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
quite well over the few years I have been in. I have been in and | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
out, got it out, put it back. Like today, I have come out and got it | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
all out. I most probably be back in the new year, pawning again. But, | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
you know, there is stigma and there isn't stigma about it. I could | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
never tell my family that I go to the pawn shop. | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
In the beginning when I first worked here, we had a very small | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
box of pawnbroking, it has got now to three safes full of pawnbroking. | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
We know most people, they come and start talking to you, and they will | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
say their husband has lost their job. It is ever day living, that is | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
-- every day living, that is why they pawn their jewellery, because | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
they can't afford to live. We might not be pawning our boots and | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
blankets to get through this crisis, but more of us are turning to | :27:53. | :28:00. | |
something we can touch, something real. To make ends meet. I'm joined | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
by the Labour MP, Stella Creasy, who has campaigned for the | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
financial conduct authority to be given wide-ranging powers to cap | :28:06. | :28:13. | |
the cost of cred di. And by Ray Perry from the -- credit, and by | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
Ray Perry from the National Pawnbrokers Association. People | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
can't get credit from the bank, isn't it best they go to the | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
pawnbrokers, rather than some shadey back street money lender? | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
Nobody is suggesting people go to illegal lenders. Most other | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
countries cap the cost of credit, and they have lower levels of | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
illegal lending and lower levels of personal debt. The Government has | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
sat on this market for the last couple of years, watching British | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
families struggling. We know next year will get worse. We need to | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
tackle these, whether it is the payday loan industries or the | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
higher purchase agreements, they are all scraming British consumers. | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
Look at Fish there, daily interest rates, surely there should be some | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
kind of cap? The daily interest rate is a legal requirement. They | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
have to express a legal daily interest rate. Most pawnbrokers | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
think of months, the average loan is typically about a month-and-a- | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
half. They are not really thinking about loans that should last a year | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
or more than that. What do you say to the accusation that it is all | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
about payday loans as well, and the pawnbroking side of it lures people | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
in to then be involved in payday loan, you have actually amalgamated | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
the old tradition of pawnbroking with payday loans, very much a | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
feature of these unstable times? is like if you go shopping in | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
Tescos, there is a range of products in there available to the | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
customer. They have that choice. Obviously I would say pawnbroking | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
is better, it gives a better interest rate, and you are | :29:47. | :29:54. | |
borrowing in a sense against itself. Why do so many pawnbrokers in | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
Waltham stow ring them back with payday loans when they come into | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
the shop. Surely you are pushing people into ways of borrowing that | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
are unsustainable? In terms of pawnbroking I don't know who you | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
are referring to, but pawnbroking is providing a good service. It is | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
providing a means for somebody to get credit. Pawnbrokers are | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
offering loans on �50,000 H & T, how is that a good service, it is | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
due to be paid back in six months, that is �2,000 of interest if it is | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
paid back in six months. I spoke to them, they put it there to attract | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
business people, they do two of those a year. We don't necessarily | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
need to talk about those examples. What you are talking about �50,000 | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
loans, it is interesting. This whole idea that you saw there, that | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
the entrepeneur there that had to pawn is Porsche, he was saying | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
there was no stigma. That is a different thing. This is just part | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
and parcel of the economic situation we are in, where people | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
have short-term jobs, people maybe can't get money from the bank. They | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
need the pawnbroker. What that businessman proved is a damning | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
indictment of Project Merlin, supposed to be lending to small | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
businesss in this country. If we are lending in ways that push | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
people into further debt, it is not good for them or the economy. It is | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
the same with pawnbroking, that should be one of the cheapest forms | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
of lending because they are secured against an item, the interest rates | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
you charge bear no more interest to the British economy than payday | :31:28. | :31:36. | |
lending. The Money-- A few programmes looked at the issue and | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
said that pawnbroking on a typical one-month loan was cheaper than | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
other options, and the OFT did a report saying the same last week. | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
The argument seems to be that you do not have regulation that exists | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
in other European countries, capping the cost of a loan. Would | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
that not actually be a reasonable way to proceed, if you want | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
pawnbroking, as it were, to become, not that it is illegitimate, but a | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
more legitimate, unstigmatised form of credit? I'm not saying that | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
Stella may have a point in some cases. You know, there is extreme, | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
and indeed there are illegal loan sharks out there, I certainly do | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
not condone that. From the association's point of view, | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
wouldn't it benefit you to be prepared to take a cap on the cost | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
of a loan? I suppose the obvious question would be what is that cap | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
F it's at a certain level, people won't enter the business. It is, at | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
the end of the day a business proposition to loan money. If it is | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
too low. All these other countries have caps on the cost of credit, | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
and they have pawnbroking and payday lending. Let's talk about | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
the interest rates you are talking about, the Which? Study showed | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
pawnbroking interest rates go between 90% and 290%, nobody here | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
watching will think that is a low- interest loan? People watching | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
tonight will know it will be a short-term loan, up to six weeks. | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
Why do 20% of customers don't pay back in time and have to roll over | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
or lose the item? It is 12%. official figures are that, I will | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
listen to them? You can't role over a pawnbroking loan, you are loaning | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
against a particular item, it is your item. The worst that can | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
happen is you lose the item. websites for Fish Brothers says | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
clearly they will offer you the opportunity to extend the terms of | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
the loan, what is that if it is not rolling it over? It is starting a | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
new loan, you can't stop somebody coming back another time with | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
another item. Let's be honest, Stella Creasy, for lots of people n | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
a sense, what you are doing now is further stigmatising it, as it were. | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
For pom some people who don't have a bank account, pawnbroking is | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
something that is facing you in the high street, there is regulation | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
and further regulation in 2014, it is a legitimate form of credit? | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
Absolutely, we do nothing to stigmatise people, we are trying to | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
help them. We stand outside companies like Fish Brothers and | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
Cash Converters, all 18 of them in Walthamstow, and helping people to | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
access the Credit Union and get good financial advice. I won't stop | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
people borrowing to put food on the table, people will doing that in | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
this country, and nas next year will be worse when energy and food | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
prices go up, and you guys will make millions unless we as | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
politicians do something about it. Let's be clear, pawnbroking is | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
legitimate? It is, it is covered by the game governance as banks. | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
Presumably you do risk analysis, presumably you think you are really | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
in a growth business, as long as the banks won't lend and there is | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
problems there, you think you are a growth business? I think the OFT | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
are right when they say it is another form of borrowing money, | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
what is the difference between going to a bank and a pawnbroker, | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
the bank will charge you for more an overdraft, but not declared as | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
part of an APR. We have to stop there. Russia and America are | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
engaged in a new tit for tat battle, after President Putin accused the | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
US of poisoning relations between the two countries, and today | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
threatened to ban Americans from adopting Russian children. The | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
stand-off began over the called Magnitsky List, a law of that name, | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
recently signed by President Obama l ban from the US those associated | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
with the detention and death in a Moscow jail of Sergeir Magnitsky, | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
who uncovered a $230 million fraud perpetrate bid Russian officials. | :35:25. | :35:35. | |
:35:35. | :35:39. | ||
Putin has promised a reaction. It was his first major press | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
conference since his third term as President, and he was in hawkish | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
move. President Obama signing a declaration to freeze assets and | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
denying American visas for certain Russians. He said he supported a | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
proposal by the lower house, Americans prevented from adopting | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
Russian children. TRANSLATION: regards this very topic you have | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
touched upon now, the adoption of our children by foreign citizens, | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
as far as I know the results of the opinion polls, the majority of | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
Russian citizens have a negative attitude towards such practices. We | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
should be able to cope with this which ourselves. According to the | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
White House, there are 700,000 registered orphans in Russia, | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
100,000 in institutional care. In 2011, 3,400 of these children were | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
adopted by foreign families. Of those, nearly a third, 956 children | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
were adopted by Americans. It is an issue that has angered many | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
Russians, sensitive to the implication that they must be hard- | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
hearted or unable to take care of their own. The resentment was made | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
worse by stories of the ill- treatment of some Russian children | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
in the US. A child died after being locked in a car in the heat. And in | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
2010, an American woman sent back a seven-year-old Russian boy, | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
complaining he had behavioural problems she didn't want him any | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
more. But Americans were furious that idea of a ban on Russian | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
children. It means they will remain in care. Data shows us that | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
Russians are not inclined to adopt them, the polling data shows that | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
the majority of Russians support intercountry adoption. It is hard | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
to deny children are not being used as political pawns. This is not | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
just a row about children, the Russians are furious that the | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
Magnitsky Act, named in response to a Russian lower, Sergei Magnitsky | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
who died in jail in 2009, he was about to go on trial for fraud. | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
Sergei Magnitsky had alleged that a circle of tax and registry | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
officials had conspired in a $230 million fraud scheme. The Magnitsky | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
Act normalises trade relations with Russia, but allows officials to be | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
bared from the US, if they are involved in ruption or human rights | :38:05. | :38:13. | |
abuses. Putin's response went -- corruption or human rights abuses. | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
Putin's went beyond. He said they would draw up a list of their own | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
of Americans banned for human rights violations. TRANSLATION: | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
have already talking about this, Abu Ghraib, very much talked about | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
in the world. Guantanamo prison, they keep people there for many | :38:31. | :38:41. | |
years, without any crimes, any charges. Even as if in the middle- | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
age, they legaliseed tortures. Just imagine that we have something like | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
this in our country. They will eat us. The Magnitsky Act has clearly | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
not helped Russian-American diplomacy, but President Putin was | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
claiming today, it has poisoned relations between the two sides. | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
Even so, there are growing pressures here in Britain, that a | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
variety of the acts should be introduced here, to stop corrupt | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
Russian officials, and those involved in human rights abuses, | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
coming to London to spend their money. | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
It is about make sure that where you have individuals, responsible | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
for torture, and some of the other most heinous crimes, they are not | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
just free to Waltz into this country, buy up property, or do a | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
bit of light Christmas shopping on the kings road. Why starting Russia, | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
there are human rights abusers all around the world? That is a God | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
point. And when the House of Commons unanimously called for this | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
kind of law back in March, they said we wanted to see it all around | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
the globe. Before becoming low, the measure banning Russian children | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
being adopted by Americans, has to pass a third read anything the | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
State Duma. After that it goes to the Upper House, then it requires | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
President Putin's signature. Some of his ministers are known to be | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
against it, regarding it as eye- for-eye logic, but Putin's angry | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
speech today suggests they could be overruled. | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
Alexander Nekrassov is a journalist and former Kremlin adviser. In | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
Washington, we have the head of the Russia time at the Eurasia Group at | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
this tang. Do you think this has the make -- think-tank. Do you | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
think this has the makings of a serious row? When you start to ban | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
American citizens from adopting Russian children. It is a little | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
bit over the stop. If we had mutual blacklists going on, that is what | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
everybody expects. But the Kremlin has gone a step too far, Americans | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
are taking it personally it is a danger that it will spill over into | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
the range of national security and range of mutual interests that the | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
United States and Russia have. is a long way down the line, we | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
think, because, as was said, this has to be signed off eventually by | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
Vladimir Putin. Now, he was sounding pretty toughed today, but | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
do you think he will take this all -- tough today, but do you think he | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
will take this all the way? I think he will, the Kremlin is very angry | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
that the United States have selected a specific one country, | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
accusing its officials of corruption and human rights abuse. | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
But without, for example, what about China, what about Saudi | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
Arabia, what about Bahrain, there are many countries. The official | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
there is are travelling freely to the west. This is the point that | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
the Kremlin is making. This is hypocrisy. Because you are picking | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
out one country, on the basis of one incident, where no-one has any | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
firm proof, yet, that these people were guilty. No, but Magnitsky did | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
uncover the fraud. He did uncover the fraud. But there is still a | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
question over who actually was involved in the events leading to | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
his murder. Cliff Kupchan, the question of this list, importantly, | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
it calls for freezing of assets. Now, without firm proof, you know, | :42:00. | :42:10. | |
:42:10. | :42:12. | ||
can America go about freezing the assets of Russian citizens? | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
firm proof, there is very little attempt by the Russians to look | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
into what happened to Mr Magnitsky. The President called for an | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
investigation and nothing really happened. In fact, further charges | :42:24. | :42:31. | |
have been brought against Mr Magnitsky, posthumously. This is a | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
very unfortunate affair. I think that it also very much got involved, | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
we haven't talked about the other half of the coin here, the other | :42:39. | :42:46. | |
half of the story, which is that this Magnitsky Bill, was linked to | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
legislation, that allowed American companies to take advantage of | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
Russia's WTO accession, which Russia very, very badly wanted. | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
There was a quid pro quo in American politics. This will very | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
much promote US-Russia trade, but on the other hand it will carry it | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
along, because Congress insisted that human rights be addressed, it | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
carried along this much more controversial act. First of all, | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
the argument that the President and the Putin didn't investigate it | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
properly. Your country didn't investigate the war in Iraq | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
properly, you can go down this road and never stop. The point here is | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
this, this is an act, which has this poisonous element in it, and | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
they are accusing people of something that hasn't been proven, | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
and, and, freezing other people's assets, the citizens of another | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
country. This can open a floodgate that such thing nobody can stop | :43:44. | :43:50. | |
them. In the Kremlin, behind the facade of the Kremlin, is there a | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
lot of saber-rattling going on, or do you think it will be resolved? | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
think that Putin will sign that bill. I think that it will stay | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
there. I don't think that economically, business-wise, we | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
will have problems. I think it will develop. But the stand-off will | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
continue, obviously. Just talking, and picking up now what President | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
Putin said earlier, in terms of spilling over into other elements | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
of relations. Let's talk about, for example, relations over Syria, | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
relations over Iran, do you think the Russians will, there was some | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
accord, we thought there was going to be some meeting of minds on this, | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
do you think there will be a firming of attitudes on this? | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
think there will be problems. Syria will be obviously, they won't agree | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
on Syria at the moment, and Iran as well. But this particular case, I | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
don't think it influences that. Clearly, Cliff Kupchan, the fact is, | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
the Americans are prepared for a backlash? The Americans are | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
prepared for a backlash. And I don't think that one particular | :44:51. | :44:57. | |
issue can become compartmentalised. That is the great fear here. That | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
the road to settling the Iranian nuclear crisis leads through Moscow | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
and Syria it leads through Moscow. We have serious differences on | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
National Missile Defence. If, indeed, Mr Putin signs this bill, I | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
happen to think there is a good chance he won't, he left himself a | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
big, big trap door in the conference today. In the news | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
conference. His own Foreign Minister has condemned it, the head | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
of the Upper House has condemned it. The minister in charged of | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
implementing it has condemned it. In your view, do you think that | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
behind the scenes, there is a lot of negotiation and diplomacy going | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
on? I actually think Mr Putin got out over his skis here. I think | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
that they floated an idea within his party, United Russia, everybody | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
got behind it, I don't think they expected the huge backlash when his | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
own Government to, especially the adoption provision. I think they | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
will both back down. Just time for the papers. The front page of the | :45:58. | :46:08. | |
:46:08. | :46:36. | ||
That's all tonight, we will be here with more tomorrow. Until then, | :46:36. | :46:46. | |
:46:46. | :46:52. | ||
with more tomorrow. Until then, good night. | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
Weather warnings are still afoot across the north-east. Particularly | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
eastern Scotland, through the night, and into Friday as well. Some | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
pretty horrendous weather around, we could have further flooding | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
problems. A little bit of mist and fog elsewhere. It could stay grey | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
for the east coast of England for much of the day. It does look dryer | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
than we have seen during the last 24 hours. That is not to say river | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
level won't continue to increase, all that rain needs to make its way | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
down stream. At least it is dryer weather-wise for Friday. If you are | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
travelling stay tuned to the forecast. We have more wet and | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
windy weather to come as we move into the weekend. A dryer day for | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
Wales, the south west, a dryer day for Northern Ireland, it could be a | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
bit murky first thing, that will take time to clear. As we move back | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
into Scotland, we come back into the weather system, which will | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
still be affecting northern and eastern areas. Not just heavy winds. | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
Snow over the Grampians. Into Saturday, more rain makes its way | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
right across the country. That is Friday into Saturday, another amber | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
warning from the Met Office is in force as there is an amber warning | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
out for the night and tomorrow. You can see that is also the same for | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
Saturday, further south through London, Cardiff, Birmingham and | :48:07. | :48:10. |