01/03/2013 Newsnight

Tonight, David Cameron says he will Tonight, David Cameron says he will

Tonight, David Cameron says he will Tonight, David Cameron says he will

win voters back to his party after win voters back to his party after

failing the Eastleigh by-election test.

test. test.

But does he know how? But does he know how?

But does he know how? But does he know how?

Nick Clegg says it was a stunning Nick Clegg says it was a stunning

Nick Clegg says it was a stunning win for the Liberal Democrats after

win for the Liberal Democrats after win for the Liberal Democrats after

weeks of dire publicity. But the weeks of dire publicity. But the

weeks of dire publicity. But the weeks of dire publicity. But the

real winners of the night were the real winners of the night were the

real winners of the night were the party that came second. Newsnight

party that came second. Newsnight party that came second. Newsnight

called the results of this by- called the results of this by-

called the results of this by- election first when it was

election first when it was election first when it was

announced three weeks ago. What we announced three weeks ago. What we

announced three weeks ago. What we announced three weeks ago. What we

didn't see, but we should have done, didn't see, but we should have done,

didn't see, but we should have done, didn't see, but we should have done,

UKIP did very well. We have a happy UKIP did very well. We have a happy

UKIP did very well. We have a happy UKIP did very well. We have a happy

UKIP chairman and a less than happy story MP.

story MP. -- Tory MP.

-- Tory MP. -- Tory MP.

-- Tory MP. Back when he was President, a pound

Back when he was President, a pound Back when he was President, a pound

Back when he was President, a pound could get you nearly $10, now it is

could get you nearly $10, now it is could get you nearly $10, now it is

�1.50 -- $1.50 and falling. Our �1.50 -- $1.50 and falling. Our

�1.50 -- $1.50 and falling. Our �1.50 -- $1.50 and falling. Our

leaders seem happy about it, but is leaders seem happy about it, but is

leaders seem happy about it, but is debatching the currency the only

debatching the currency the only debatching the currency the only

debatching the currency the only way out of the mess. And this.

way out of the mess. And this. way out of the mess. And this.

Harolds is dumping its piian knows Harolds is dumping its piian knows

Harolds is dumping its piian knows because nobody wants to buy them

because nobody wants to buy them because nobody wants to buy them

because nobody wants to buy them any more. We will be -- pianos,

any more. We will be -- pianos, any more. We will be -- pianos,

because nobody wants to buy them because nobody wants to buy them

because nobody wants to buy them because nobody wants to buy them

any more. We will be looking at the any more. We will be looking at the

any more. We will be looking at the any more. We will be looking at the

Fort tunes of the piano forte. Fort tunes of the piano forte.

Fort tunes of the piano forte. The Labour candidate for Eastleigh

The Labour candidate for Eastleigh The Labour candidate for Eastleigh

The Labour candidate for Eastleigh learned he wasn't to be member of

learned he wasn't to be member of learned he wasn't to be member of

the parliament, he barely increased the parliament, he barely increased

the parliament, he barely increased his party's share at all. The

his party's share at all. The Conservative candidate, Maria

Conservative candidate, Maria Hutchings, attracted 11,000 fewers

Hutchings, attracted 11,000 fewers Hutchings, attracted 11,000 fewers

votes than in 2010. Westminster had votes than in 2010. Westminster had

votes than in 2010. Westminster had prepared for the impact that this

prepared for the impact that this prepared for the impact that this

by-election might have on the by-election might have on the

by-election might have on the coalition. The result has left it

coalition. The result has left it coalition. The result has left it

pondering the consequences for the pondering the consequences for the

Conservatives, as an electoral Conservatives, as an electoral

Conservatives, as an electoral proposition, and for UKIP. In a

proposition, and for UKIP. In a proposition, and for UKIP. In a

proposition, and for UKIP. In a moment we will discuss what both of

moment we will discuss what both of moment we will discuss what both of

those parties should take from those parties should take from

those parties should take from Eastleigh. But first, here is our

political editor. political editor.

political editor. political editor.

I do here by declare that Mike I do here by declare that Mike

I do here by declare that Mike Thornton is duly elected member of

Thornton is duly elected member of parliament for Eastleigh.

parliament for Eastleigh. parliament for Eastleigh.

A rickety stage, assembled in a A rickety stage, assembled in a

leisure centre somewhere in leisure centre somewhere in

leisure centre somewhere in southern England. But the national

southern England. But the national southern England. But the national

stage too, a result with relevance. stage too, a result with relevance.

stage too, a result with relevance. Extremely healthy victory for the

Extremely healthy victory for the Extremely healthy victory for the

Lib Dems, proof that the by- Lib Dems, proof that the by-

election strategy still works, election strategy still works,

election strategy still works, despite being in Government. And

despite being in Government. And despite being in Government. And

despite being in Government. And indeed that the path may be there

indeed that the path may be there indeed that the path may be there

for a successful general election for a successful general election

campaign. Newsnight called the campaign. Newsnight called the

campaign. Newsnight called the result of the by-election when it

result of the by-election when it result of the by-election when it

was first announced three weeks ago. was first announced three weeks ago.

was first announced three weeks ago. was first announced three weeks ago.

What we didn't see, what we should What we didn't see, what we should

What we didn't see, what we should What we didn't see, what we should

have done, is UKIP did very well. have done, is UKIP did very well.

have done, is UKIP did very well. Earlier in the night these faces

Earlier in the night these faces Earlier in the night these faces

had got longer. The Tories had had got longer. The Tories had

had got longer. The Tories had thought they could snatch the seat.

thought they could snatch the seat. thought they could snatch the seat.

Their strategy relied on several Their strategy relied on several

elements, that David Cameron elements, that David Cameron

elements, that David Cameron appeals as a national leader more

appeals as a national leader more appeals as a national leader more

appeals as a national leader more than Ed Miliband. But this is less

than Ed Miliband. But this is less than Ed Miliband. But this is less

easy to argue in a by-election, easy to argue in a by-election,

easy to argue in a by-election, when the results don't affect a

when the results don't affect a national Government. There is

national Government. There is national Government. There is

another factor. Even though the another factor. Even though the

another factor. Even though the another factor. Even though the

Tories tried to hit the Lib Dems on Tories tried to hit the Lib Dems on

their weaknesses, immigration, their weaknesses, immigration,

their weaknesses, immigration, welfare and Europe, another party

welfare and Europe, another party welfare and Europe, another party

may have scooped those votes, UKIP. may have scooped those votes, UKIP.

may have scooped those votes, UKIP. UKIP did better in Eastleigh than

UKIP did better in Eastleigh than UKIP did better in Eastleigh than

three months before in Rotherham. three months before in Rotherham.

three months before in Rotherham. Research published by Lord Ashcroft

Research published by Lord Ashcroft Research published by Lord Ashcroft

revealed what Newsnight had seen revealed what Newsnight had seen

revealed what Newsnight had seen throughout the contest, that UKIP

throughout the contest, that UKIP throughout the contest, that UKIP

was attracting votes from all the was attracting votes from all the

was attracting votes from all the other three parties. Tonight I

other three parties. Tonight I don't think anyone should

don't think anyone should don't think anyone should

underestimate what we have achieved. underestimate what we have achieved.

underestimate what we have achieved. We have come second, and pushed

We have come second, and pushed We have come second, and pushed

Labour back into the position we Labour back into the position we

Labour back into the position we Labour back into the position we

were in 2010. There is only a were in 2010. There is only a

were in 2010. There is only a couple of hundred votes accept

couple of hundred votes accept couple of hundred votes accept

rating us from the Liberal rating us from the Liberal

rating us from the Liberal Democrats. We have made an

Democrats. We have made an outstanding impression this evening

outstanding impression this evening outstanding impression this evening

outstanding impression this evening and with the voters, and I see that

and with the voters, and I see that and with the voters, and I see that

being replicated next time round being replicated next time round

being replicated next time round easily. At the general election?

easily. At the general election? easily. At the general election?

Absolutely. Voters could switch to Absolutely. Voters could switch to

Absolutely. Voters could switch to UKIP on this occasion because it

UKIP on this occasion because it UKIP on this occasion because it

would not change who is Prime would not change who is Prime

would not change who is Prime Minister right now. And, even if

Minister right now. And, even if Minister right now. And, even if

UKIP voters were defiant last night, UKIP voters were defiant last night,

UKIP voters were defiant last night, that may not last. Lord Ashcroft

that may not last. Lord Ashcroft that may not last. Lord Ashcroft

that may not last. Lord Ashcroft shows that a third of his sample

shows that a third of his sample shows that a third of his sample

shows that a third of his sample have no idea how they will vote in

have no idea how they will vote in a general election. UKIP,

a general election. UKIP, traditionally their support has

traditionally their support has traditionally their support has

mostly come from the Conservative mostly come from the Conservative

mostly come from the Conservative mostly come from the Conservative

Party, they also took Lib Dem votes, Party, they also took Lib Dem votes,

Party, they also took Lib Dem votes, and in the by-elections recently in

and in the by-elections recently in and in the by-elections recently in

Rotherham and Barnsley, we have Rotherham and Barnsley, we have

Rotherham and Barnsley, we have Rotherham and Barnsley, we have

seen them take a lot of support seen them take a lot of support

seen them take a lot of support from Labour too. They can genuinely

from Labour too. They can genuinely from Labour too. They can genuinely

appeal from people people from all appeal from people people from all

appeal from people people from all appeal from people people from all

parties. As a threat their mostly a parties. As a threat their mostly a

threat to the Conservatives. threat to the Conservatives.

threat to the Conservatives. Because their support tends to be

Because their support tends to be Because their support tends to be

older, middle-class men, people who older, middle-class men, people who

older, middle-class men, people who would otherwise vote Tory. But it

would otherwise vote Tory. But it would otherwise vote Tory. But it

would otherwise vote Tory. But it is not exclusive, and as a protest

is not exclusive, and as a protest is not exclusive, and as a protest

group, their protest vote, which is group, their protest vote, which is

group, their protest vote, which is group, their protest vote, which is

what we are seeing at the moment, what we are seeing at the moment,

what we are seeing at the moment, what we are seeing at the moment,

is across the board. Do you blame is across the board. Do you blame

is across the board. Do you blame the coalition Government? The Tory

the coalition Government? The Tory the coalition Government? The Tory

the coalition Government? The Tory candidate was tossed about the in -

candidate was tossed about the in - candidate was tossed about the in -

candidate was tossed about the in - - in the feeding frenzy. Some are

- in the feeding frenzy. Some are - in the feeding frenzy. Some are

wondering whether a more moderate wondering whether a more moderate

wondering whether a more moderate wondering whether a more moderate

Tory would have given the Lib Dems Tory would have given the Lib Dems

Tory would have given the Lib Dems Tory would have given the Lib Dems

a run for their money. Some believe a run for their money. Some believe

a run for their money. Some believe the anti-gay marriage and anti-

the anti-gay marriage and anti- the anti-gay marriage and anti-

Europe Hutchings should have been Europe Hutchings should have been

Europe Hutchings should have been Europe Hutchings should have been

able to out-UKIP UKIP. It is a by- able to out-UKIP UKIP. It is a by-

able to out-UKIP UKIP. It is a by- election, it is disappointing for

election, it is disappointing for election, it is disappointing for

the Conservative Party, we must the Conservative Party, we must

the Conservative Party, we must remain true to our principles and

remain true to our principles and remain true to our principles and

remain true to our principles and course, and we can win people back.

course, and we can win people back. Another surprise to Labour's

Another surprise to Labour's detriment, many had assumed

detriment, many had assumed detriment, many had assumed

tactical voting would end, and tactical voting would end, and

tactical voting would end, and tactical voting would end, and

those who had voted Lib Dem to keep those who had voted Lib Dem to keep

those who had voted Lib Dem to keep the Tories out, would return to

the Tories out, would return to the Tories out, would return to

Labour. But they didn't. Clearly I Labour. But they didn't. Clearly I

Labour. But they didn't. Clearly I would have preferred to get more

would have preferred to get more would have preferred to get more

would have preferred to get more votes than we Z this was always

votes than we Z this was always votes than we Z this was always

votes than we Z this was always going to be a tough fight for

going to be a tough fight for going to be a tough fight for

going to be a tough fight for Labour. It is a seat we have never

Labour. It is a seat we have never Labour. It is a seat we have never

Labour. It is a seat we have never won. But all it convinced me of, is

won. But all it convinced me of, is won. But all it convinced me of, is

won. But all it convinced me of, is we need to redouble our efforts to

we need to redouble our efforts to we need to redouble our efforts to

we need to redouble our efforts to reach out to every part of the

reach out to every part of the country, including areas where

country, including areas where Labour hasn't traditionally been

strong. strong.

strong. On polling day, the Liberal

On polling day, the Liberal On polling day, the Liberal

Democrats say they phoned 120 Democrats say they phoned 120

Democrats say they phoned 120 people a minute. Over the three

people a minute. Over the three people a minute. Over the three

weeks, they say they made 130,000 weeks, they say they made 130,000

weeks, they say they made 130,000 weeks, they say they made 130,000

phone calls. This has been a by- phone calls. This has been a by-

phone calls. This has been a by- phone calls. This has been a by-

election we have had to fight in exceptionally difficult

exceptionally difficult circumstances. Our opponents have

circumstances. Our opponents have circumstances. Our opponents have

thrown everything at us. We held thrown everything at us. We held

thrown everything at us. We held thrown everything at us. We held

our nerve, we stood our grand, we our nerve, we stood our grand, we

our nerve, we stood our grand, we our nerve, we stood our grand, we

worked as a team, we went out and worked as a team, we went out and

worked as a team, we went out and calmed on every doorstep, we

calmed on every doorstep, we calmed on every doorstep, we

overcame the odds and won a stunning victory.

stunning victory. stunning victory.

stunning victory. The Lib Dem leader has dragged us

The Lib Dem leader has dragged us The Lib Dem leader has dragged us

The Lib Dem leader has dragged us all here at dawn to watch him

all here at dawn to watch him all here at dawn to watch him

Government his party's power is not Government his party's power is not

Government his party's power is not diminish. But the trouble for the

diminish. But the trouble for the diminish. But the trouble for the

Government is that a by-election Government is that a by-election

Government is that a by-election Government is that a by-election

victory is not a zero-sum game, Lib victory is not a zero-sum game, Lib

victory is not a zero-sum game, Lib Dem joy equals Tory pain.

Dem joy equals Tory pain. Dem joy equals Tory pain.

Dem joy equals Tory pain. The Lib Dems won 32% of Thursday's

The Lib Dems won 32% of Thursday's The Lib Dems won 32% of Thursday's

The Lib Dems won 32% of Thursday's vote, but it was quite a bit down

vote, but it was quite a bit down vote, but it was quite a bit down

vote, but it was quite a bit down on their result in 2010, so Nick

on their result in 2010, so Nick on their result in 2010, so Nick

on their result in 2010, so Nick Clegg is far from sure of keeping

Clegg is far from sure of keeping Clegg is far from sure of keeping

Clegg is far from sure of keeping all his seats in 2015. But, his

all his seats in 2015. But, his all his seats in 2015. But, his

strategy at least appears to have strategy at least appears to have

strategy at least appears to have held together. The same can't be

held together. The same can't be held together. The same can't be

held together. The same can't be said for the Prime Minister, and it

said for the Prime Minister, and it said for the Prime Minister, and it

said for the Prime Minister, and it can't really be said for the leader

can't really be said for the leader can't really be said for the leader

can't really be said for the leader of the Labour Party. It is Nick

of the Labour Party. It is Nick of the Labour Party. It is Nick

Clegg that goes into his spring Clegg that goes into his spring

Clegg that goes into his spring party conference next weekend, with

party conference next weekend, with party conference next weekend, with

party conference next weekend, with a bit of a bounce in his step.

a bit of a bounce in his step. a bit of a bounce in his step.

a bit of a bounce in his step. With me now is the UKIP chairman,

With me now is the UKIP chairman, Steve Crowther, and the

Conservative MP. Conservative MP.

Conservative MP. Conservative MP.

I have to ask you, David Cameron I have to ask you, David Cameron

I have to ask you, David Cameron gave a very important speech on

gave a very important speech on gave a very important speech on

Europe, a very important commitment Europe, a very important commitment

Europe, a very important commitment to give a referendum on EU

to give a referendum on EU membership. It hasn't worked,

membership. It hasn't worked, membership. It hasn't worked,

wasn't that precisely to stop wasn't that precisely to stop

wasn't that precisely to stop wasn't that precisely to stop

things like this? I think if we things like this? I think if we

things like this? I think if we look at the whole perspective, then

look at the whole perspective, then look at the whole perspective, then

this was a mid-term by-election, this was a mid-term by-election,

this was a mid-term by-election, whilst it was disappointing with

whilst it was disappointing with the Conservatives, the whole

the Conservatives, the whole the Conservatives, the whole

perspective is that for decades and perspective is that for decades and

hundreds of by-elections, the hundreds of by-elections, the

hundreds of by-elections, the governing party always has a

governing party always has a governing party always has a

backlash. And there is always a backlash. And there is always a

backlash. And there is always a backlash. And there is always a

protest vote, and it is in this protest vote, and it is in this

protest vote, and it is in this instance that protest vote went to

instance that protest vote went to instance that protest vote went to

UKIP. You were expecting to come UKIP. You were expecting to come

UKIP. You were expecting to come UKIP. You were expecting to come

third? No, we did as best as we third? No, we did as best as we

third? No, we did as best as we third? No, we did as best as we

could. This is a bad result?I could. This is a bad result?I

could. This is a bad result?I could. This is a bad result?I

think if you look at the poll think if you look at the poll

think if you look at the poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft, which

conducted by Lord Ashcroft, which conducted by Lord Ashcroft, which

you referred to earlier on. That you referred to earlier on. That

you referred to earlier on. That you referred to earlier on. That

same poll found that many of the same poll found that many of the

same poll found that many of the people who voted Ford UKIP would

people who voted Ford UKIP would people who voted Ford UKIP would

people who voted Ford UKIP would have, if this had been a general

have, if this had been a general election, voted for the

election, voted for the Conservatives. And Maria Hutchings

Conservatives. And Maria Hutchings Conservatives. And Maria Hutchings

would have comfortably become the would have comfortably become the

would have comfortably become the would have comfortably become the

member of parliament. So I think it member of parliament. So I think it

member of parliament. So I think it is important to put into

is important to put into is important to put into

perspective, that since the Second perspective, that since the Second

perspective, that since the Second perspective, that since the Second

World War, there have been 485 by- World War, there have been 485 by-

World War, there have been 485 by- elections, and the governing party

elections, and the governing party elections, and the governing party

has only won four elections. The has only won four elections. The

has only won four elections. The has only won four elections. The

last one was in 1982 during the last one was in 1982 during the

last one was in 1982 during the last one was in 1982 during the

Falklands War. But you heard in all Falklands War. But you heard in all

Falklands War. But you heard in all the coverage we have had from

the coverage we have had from the coverage we have had from

Eastleigh, especially in the last Eastleigh, especially in the last

Eastleigh, especially in the last Eastleigh, especially in the last

few days, and even in the decision few days, and even in the decision

few days, and even in the decision few days, and even in the decision

to give that speech, there is a to give that speech, there is a

to give that speech, there is a recognition that there is something

recognition that there is something recognition that there is something

about UKIP which is appealing to about UKIP which is appealing to

about UKIP which is appealing to the Conservative core vote. You

the Conservative core vote. You the Conservative core vote. You

the Conservative core vote. You surely now do have to accept that?.

surely now do have to accept that?. surely now do have to accept that?.

Kip have two main issues, Kip have two main issues,

Kip have two main issues, immigration and the European Union.

immigration and the European Union. immigration and the European Union.

-- UKIP have two main issues, -- UKIP have two main issues,

-- UKIP have two main issues, immigration and the European Union.

immigration and the European Union. immigration and the European Union.

immigration and the European Union. We have to make sure our message is

We have to make sure our message is more effectively communicated to

more effectively communicated to more effectively communicated to

the public. On immigration the the public. On immigration the

figures published yesterday showed figures published yesterday showed

figures published yesterday showed that the net immigration figure is

that the net immigration figure is that the net immigration figure is

that the net immigration figure is down by a third, since the general

down by a third, since the general down by a third, since the general

election. And on the European Union election. And on the European Union

election. And on the European Union we have promised an in-out

we have promised an in-out we have promised an in-out

referendum on a reformed Europe. referendum on a reformed Europe.

referendum on a reformed Europe. referendum on a reformed Europe.

Also, but we need to make sure that Also, but we need to make sure that

Also, but we need to make sure that the public really take that on

the public really take that on the public really take that on

the public really take that on board. I come back to the original

board. I come back to the original board. I come back to the original

board. I come back to the original point, that people voted by way of

point, that people voted by way of point, that people voted by way of

point, that people voted by way of protest, they are not happy with us.

protest, they are not happy with us. protest, they are not happy with us.

protest, they are not happy with us. We have had to take a number of

We have had to take a number of difficult decisions. You have

difficult decisions. You have accepted there something that

accepted there something that accepted there something that

others have said today, which is others have said today, which is

others have said today, which is that the Conservatives are not

that the Conservatives are not that the Conservatives are not

letting their message get across. letting their message get across.

letting their message get across. letting their message get across.

The message, he says, was blunt? The message, he says, was blunt?

The message, he says, was blunt? The message, he says, was blunt?

accept that the message we have to accept that the message we have to

accept that the message we have to accept that the message we have to

convey to the public has to be convey to the public has to be

convey to the public has to be convey to the public has to be

conveyed better than it has been so conveyed better than it has been so

conveyed better than it has been so conveyed better than it has been so

far. But that's not to say that far. But that's not to say that

far. But that's not to say that this was a by-election, mid-term,

this was a by-election, mid-term, this was a by-election, mid-term,

this was a by-election, mid-term, and the results should not be a

and the results should not be a and the results should not be a

surprise, given that there have surprise, given that there have

surprise, given that there have been so many hundreds of by-

been so many hundreds of by- elections in similar circumstances,

elections in similar circumstances, elections in similar circumstances,

where they have always gone against where they have always gone against

where they have always gone against the governing party. Doesn't he

the governing party. Doesn't he the governing party. Doesn't he

have a point, Steve Crowther? When have a point, Steve Crowther? When

have a point, Steve Crowther? When have a point, Steve Crowther? When

you look at the swing against the you look at the swing against the

you look at the swing against the governing party in by-elections in

governing party in by-elections in governing party in by-elections in

governing party in by-elections in the last 30 years, this one doesn't

the last 30 years, this one doesn't the last 30 years, this one doesn't

the last 30 years, this one doesn't figure in the top ten. This is a

figure in the top ten. This is a classic by-election protest?

classic by-election protest? classic by-election protest?

don't agree at all. Obviously the don't agree at all. Obviously the

don't agree at all. Obviously the other three major parties are

other three major parties are other three major parties are

extraordinary keen to classify it extraordinary keen to classify it

extraordinary keen to classify it as a classic by-election protest.

as a classic by-election protest. as a classic by-election protest.

as a classic by-election protest. But there has never been one like

But there has never been one like But there has never been one like

But there has never been one like this. This is a fourth party coming

this. This is a fourth party coming this. This is a fourth party coming

from behind, and inserting itself from behind, and inserting itself

from behind, and inserting itself very thoroughly into a marginal

very thoroughly into a marginal very thoroughly into a marginal

contest. It is not like...An Exit contest. It is not like...An Exit

contest. It is not like...An Exit contest. It is not like...An Exit

poll that says 10% of people were poll that says 10% of people were

poll that says 10% of people were poll that says 10% of people were

planning to vote for UKIP in the planning to vote for UKIP in the

planning to vote for UKIP in the planning to vote for UKIP in the

next election? 58% said it was part next election? 58% said it was part

next election? 58% said it was part of their thinking. And part of

of their thinking. And part of of their thinking. And part of

their thinking for voting UKIP is their thinking for voting UKIP is

their thinking for voting UKIP is their thinking for voting UKIP is

they would like us to form a they would like us to form a

they would like us to form a Government. The point s we actually

Government. The point s we actually Government. The point s we actually

Government. The point s we actually stood. What share of the vote do

stood. What share of the vote do stood. What share of the vote do

you think UKIP will get at you think UKIP will get at

you think UKIP will get at Eastleigh at the time of the

Eastleigh at the time of the general election? I couldn't

general election? I couldn't general election? I couldn't

possibly comment. Over 20% like possibly comment. Over 20% like

possibly comment. Over 20% like yesterday? Yes. Why not? We fought

yesterday? Yes. Why not? We fought yesterday? Yes. Why not? We fought

Eastleigh on issues, we didn't Eastleigh on issues, we didn't

Eastleigh on issues, we didn't fight, this protest vote thing is

fight, this protest vote thing is fight, this protest vote thing is

all about convenient, old thinking, all about convenient, old thinking,

all about convenient, old thinking, about how to explain away success

about how to explain away success about how to explain away success

about how to explain away success for a third party during the mid-

for a third party during the mid- for a third party during the mid-

term for Government. Or indeed an term for Government. Or indeed an

term for Government. Or indeed an opposition during the mid-term for

opposition during the mid-term for opposition during the mid-term for

Government. It is about the issue, Government. It is about the issue,

Government. It is about the issue, Government. It is about the issue,

and your big issue is Europe. What and your big issue is Europe. What

and your big issue is Europe. What the great success has achieved with

the great success has achieved with the great success has achieved with

the great success has achieved with this result is to make sure the one

this result is to make sure the one this result is to make sure the one

pro-European Lib Dem was replaced pro-European Lib Dem was replaced

pro-European Lib Dem was replaced by another pro-European Lib Dem

by another pro-European Lib Dem by another pro-European Lib Dem

politician? It was not Europe, but politician? It was not Europe, but

politician? It was not Europe, but one of the consequences of the

one of the consequences of the one of the consequences of the

membership of the European Union, membership of the European Union,

which is the transitional which is the transitional

which is the transitional which is the transitional

arrangements at the end of the year arrangements at the end of the year

arrangements at the end of the year to allow Bulgarian and Romanian

to allow Bulgarian and Romanian to allow Bulgarian and Romanian

citizen to come to this country. citizen to come to this country.

citizen to come to this country. That is an issue resonating not

That is an issue resonating not That is an issue resonating not

That is an issue resonating not just in Eastleigh but all over the

just in Eastleigh but all over the just in Eastleigh but all over the

just in Eastleigh but all over the country. You helped an MP win that

country. You helped an MP win that country. You helped an MP win that

doesn't agree with you on that doesn't agree with you on that

doesn't agree with you on that doesn't agree with you on that

either? We have to make our case. either? We have to make our case.

either? We have to make our case. either? We have to make our case.

All of the other major parties are All of the other major parties are

All of the other major parties are All of the other major parties are

not making the case. They are all not making the case. They are all

not making the case. They are all not making the case. They are all

sitting in the same space, they are sitting in the same space, they are

sitting in the same space, they are sitting in the same space, they are

all saying, yes it is a shai. The all saying, yes it is a shai. The

Liberal Democrats aren't saying, Liberal Democrats aren't saying,

Liberal Democrats aren't saying, that the Conservatives are saying

that the Conservatives are saying that the Conservatives are saying

that the Conservatives are saying that the Conservatives are saying

it is a bit of a shame, and we wish it is a bit of a shame, and we wish

it is a bit of a shame, and we wish we could do something about T

we could do something about T we could do something about T

we could do something about T Theresa May said she wish it is

Theresa May said she wish it is Theresa May said she wish it is

wouldn't happen but there is wouldn't happen but there is

wouldn't happen but there is wouldn't happen but there is

nothing she could do about it. Eric nothing she could do about it. Eric

nothing she could do about it. Eric Picks -- pickles said people would

Picks -- pickles said people would Picks -- pickles said people would

Picks -- pickles said people would be coming but he doesn't know how

be coming but he doesn't know how be coming but he doesn't know how

many. That is the biggest thing many. That is the biggest thing

many. That is the biggest thing happening on the doorstep. They did

happening on the doorstep. They did happening on the doorstep. They did

happening on the doorstep. They did catch on to something? UKIP are an

catch on to something? UKIP are an catch on to something? UKIP are an

opportunistic party. They say all opportunistic party. They say all

opportunistic party. They say all opportunistic party. They say all

the things that people want to hear. the things that people want to hear.

the things that people want to hear. the things that people want to hear.

But the people out there, they also But the people out there, they also

But the people out there, they also But the people out there, they also

want to, but the other thing is want to, but the other thing is

want to, but the other thing is want to, but the other thing is

they may hear the right things, but they may hear the right things, but

they may hear the right things, but they don't hear the solution. What

they don't hear the solution. What they don't hear the solution. What

they don't hear the solution. What we are trying to do is take the

we are trying to do is take the we are trying to do is take the

tough decision that is are required. tough decision that is are required.

tough decision that is are required. tough decision that is are required.

We have now got the worst economic We have now got the worst economic

We have now got the worst economic situation that we have had for

situation that we have had for situation that we have had for

situation that we have had for decades, we have had to take some

decades, we have had to take some decades, we have had to take some

tough decision. UKIP will talk tough decision. UKIP will talk

tough decision. UKIP will talk about immigration and Europe, but

about immigration and Europe, but about immigration and Europe, but

they won't talk about reducing the they won't talk about reducing the

deficit. Creating employment they deficit. Creating employment they

deficit. Creating employment they won't talk about the welfare state,

won't talk about the welfare state, won't talk about the welfare state,

which is just mushrooming under which is just mushrooming under

which is just mushrooming under Labour. You will have to think

Labour. You will have to think Labour. You will have to think

about a pact, aren't you? Isn't about a pact, aren't you? Isn't

about a pact, aren't you? Isn't about a pact, aren't you? Isn't

that the tough decision you have to that the tough decision you have to

that the tough decision you have to think about? We won't be talking

think about? We won't be talking think about? We won't be talking

about pacts here. Your vote was about pacts here. Your vote was

consumately split yesterday? consumately split yesterday?

consumately split yesterday? records shows since the Second

records shows since the Second records shows since the Second

World War that governing parties World War that governing parties

World War that governing parties always have a backlash, save for

always have a backlash, save for always have a backlash, save for

always have a backlash, save for four elections out of 485. You are

four elections out of 485. You are four elections out of 485. You are

four elections out of 485. You are not going to further your cause on

not going to further your cause on not going to further your cause on

Europe without having some kind of Europe without having some kind of

Europe without having some kind of pact with the Conservatives, surely

pact with the Conservatives, surely pact with the Conservatives, surely

pact with the Conservatives, surely not? I disagree. The point is this

not? I disagree. The point is this not? I disagree. The point is this

not? I disagree. The point is this is, we have to keep saying it, it

is, we have to keep saying it, it is, we have to keep saying it, it

is, we have to keep saying it, it is not the same pattern. The issue

is not the same pattern. The issue is not the same pattern. The issue

is not the same pattern. The issue we fought on were the issues of

we fought on were the issues of immigration from Eastern Europe,

immigration from Eastern Europe, immigration from Eastern Europe,

the European Union theself, and the the European Union theself, and the

the European Union theself, and the people who voted in Lord Ashcroft's

people who voted in Lord Ashcroft's people who voted in Lord Ashcroft's

people who voted in Lord Ashcroft's poll, that voted for UKIP, and they

poll, that voted for UKIP, and they poll, that voted for UKIP, and they

were very evenly spread. 30% from were very evenly spread. 30% from

Conservatives, 30% from Liberal Conservatives, 30% from Liberal

Conservatives, 30% from Liberal Democrats, and 15% for people who

Democrats, and 15% for people who Democrats, and 15% for people who

Democrats, and 15% for people who had never voted bfr, or not voted

had never voted bfr, or not voted had never voted bfr, or not voted

had never voted bfr, or not voted for many years -- before, or not

for many years -- before, or not for many years -- before, or not

voted for many years, coming into voted for many years, coming into

voted for many years, coming into the democratic process. And other

the democratic process. And other the democratic process. And other

issues we fought on the doorsteps, issues we fought on the doorsteps,

issues we fought on the doorsteps, issues we fought on the doorsteps,

in other words energy. You say we in other words energy. You say we

in other words energy. You say we are not proposing solutions, we are.

are not proposing solutions, we are. are not proposing solutions, we are.

There are solution available to all There are solution available to all

There are solution available to all these problems. The issue is

these problems. The issue is neither the Government or

neither the Government or opposition are actually intending

opposition are actually intending opposition are actually intending

opposition are actually intending to produce any. Protest votes for a

to produce any. Protest votes for a to produce any. Protest votes for a

non-governing party. We have run non-governing party. We have run

non-governing party. We have run non-governing party. We have run

out of time. In a moment: In the out of time. In a moment: In the

out of time. In a moment: In the 1920 and 1930s, there were more

1920 and 1930s, there were more 1920 and 1930s, there were more

1920 and 1930s, there were more pianos than mortar car. My nan had

pianos than mortar car. My nan had pianos than mortar car. My nan had

pianos than mortar car. My nan had one in her front room, that was the

one in her front room, that was the one in her front room, that was the

one in her front room, that was the only reason I played it. Are we

only reason I played it. Are we only reason I played it. Are we

witnessing the strange death of the British piano.

British piano. British piano.

British piano. Six years ago the pound was worth

Six years ago the pound was worth Six years ago the pound was worth

more than two American dollars, more than two American dollars,

more than two American dollars, more than two American dollars,

today it has slid below the $1.50 today it has slid below the $1.50

today it has slid below the $1.50 today it has slid below the $1.50

mark. It is down 20% since the mark. It is down 20% since the

mark. It is down 20% since the mark. It is down 20% since the

start of 2013, not just against the start of 2013, not just against the

start of 2013, not just against the start of 2013, not just against the

dollar but the euro as well. What dollar but the euro as well. What

dollar but the euro as well. What dollar but the euro as well. What

is curious about this moment in our is curious about this moment in our

is curious about this moment in our is curious about this moment in our

history, is none of the people in history, is none of the people in

history, is none of the people in charge, neither the Governor of the

charge, neither the Governor of the charge, neither the Governor of the

Bank of England, nor the Chancellor Bank of England, nor the Chancellor

Bank of England, nor the Chancellor Bank of England, nor the Chancellor

of the Exchequer, nor the leader of of the Exchequer, nor the leader of

of the Exchequer, nor the leader of the opposition seems to be very

the opposition seems to be very the opposition seems to be very

concerned about this. In fact, they concerned about this. In fact, they

concerned about this. In fact, they concerned about this. In fact, they

seem to think the sinking pound is seem to think the sinking pound is

seem to think the sinking pound is seem to think the sinking pound is

one of the great benefits we have one of the great benefits we have

one of the great benefits we have one of the great benefits we have

won from not being in the eurozone. won from not being in the eurozone.

won from not being in the eurozone. Some are wondering whether we

Some are wondering whether we Some are wondering whether we

should be so relaxed about our declining worth.

declining worth. declining worth.

declining worth. This nation under God shall have a

This nation under God shall have a This nation under God shall have a

new birth of freedom. That new birth of freedom. That

new birth of freedom. That Government of the people, by the

Government of the people, by the Government of the people, by the

Government of the people, by the people, for the people. In the film

people, for the people. In the film people, for the people. In the film

Lincoln, we learn how slavery was Lincoln, we learn how slavery was

Lincoln, we learn how slavery was abolished in 1860s America, but the

abolished in 1860s America, but the abolished in 1860s America, but the

abolished in 1860s America, but the Civil War years in the US were also

Civil War years in the US were also Civil War years in the US were also

inevitably a time of strength for inevitably a time of strength for

inevitably a time of strength for the pound against the greenback.

the pound against the greenback. the pound against the greenback.

the pound against the greenback. For most of the 19th century the

For most of the 19th century the For most of the 19th century the

pound fetched between four and five pound fetched between four and five

pound fetched between four and five dollars, it peeked at almost ten

dollars, it peeked at almost ten when American unionists started

when American unionists started when American unionists started

printing money to finance the war. printing money to finance the war.

printing money to finance the war. printing money to finance the war.

For the pound it has been down hill For the pound it has been down hill

For the pound it has been down hill pretty much since then, against the

pretty much since then, against the pretty much since then, against the

pretty much since then, against the dollar and the rest of the world's

dollar and the rest of the world's dollar and the rest of the world's

currencies too. 1931, 1949, we currencies too. 1931, 1949, we

currencies too. 1931, 1949, we remember our devaluations as great

remember our devaluations as great historical moments. Usually not

historical moments. Usually not historical moments. Usually not

very happy ones. It doesn't mean very happy ones. It doesn't mean

very happy ones. It doesn't mean very happy ones. It doesn't mean

that the pound here in Britain, in that the pound here in Britain, in

that the pound here in Britain, in that the pound here in Britain, in

your pocket or purse or bank has your pocket or purse or bank has

your pocket or purse or bank has been devafld. Harold Wilson in 1967,

been devafld. Harold Wilson in 1967, been devafld. Harold Wilson in 1967,

insisting the pound in our pocket insisting the pound in our pocket

insisting the pound in our pocket insisting the pound in our pocket

was still worth the same. Today has was still worth the same. Today has

been extremely turbulent and been extremely turbulent and

been extremely turbulent and difficult. Norman Lamont facing the

difficult. Norman Lamont facing the difficult. Norman Lamont facing the

music in Downing Street. When the music in Downing Street. When the

music in Downing Street. When the markets turned on sterling at the

markets turned on sterling at the markets turned on sterling at the

markets turned on sterling at the start of 2009, there was no photo

start of 2009, there was no photo opportunity, just guilty buildings.

opportunity, just guilty buildings. opportunity, just guilty buildings.

opportunity, just guilty buildings. The 30% drop in the pound's value

The 30% drop in the pound's value The 30% drop in the pound's value

at the height of the global at the height of the global

at the height of the global financial crisis of the biggest

financial crisis of the biggest financial crisis of the biggest

financial crisis of the biggest fall since the war, yet it doesn't

fall since the war, yet it doesn't fall since the war, yet it doesn't

fall since the war, yet it doesn't seem to have been enough. Now the

seem to have been enough. Now the seem to have been enough. Now the

seem to have been enough. Now the pound is falling again, and you get

pound is falling again, and you get pound is falling again, and you get

the sense that Britain's leaders the sense that Britain's leaders

the sense that Britain's leaders the sense that Britain's leaders

would be more worried if it started would be more worried if it started

would be more worried if it started would be more worried if it started

to head back up. Most of the to head back up. Most of the

economic establishment seems to economic establishment seems to

economic establishment seems to economic establishment seems to

agree, a weak currency is our only agree, a weak currency is our only

agree, a weak currency is our only agree, a weak currency is our only

way out of this mess. Our decision way out of this mess. Our decision

way out of this mess. Our decision to devalue attacks our problems at

to devalue attacks our problems at to devalue attacks our problems at

to devalue attacks our problems at the root. We can't say yet that it

the root. We can't say yet that it the root. We can't say yet that it

the root. We can't say yet that it will work. We can say, for sure,

will work. We can say, for sure, will work. We can say, for sure,

that Harold Wilson was wrong. All that Harold Wilson was wrong. All

that Harold Wilson was wrong. All that Harold Wilson was wrong. All

those years ago. The pound in our those years ago. The pound in our

those years ago. The pound in our pocket is worth less and less.

pocket is worth less and less. pocket is worth less and less.

pocket is worth less and less. I'm joined by Kate Barker a member

I'm joined by Kate Barker a member I'm joined by Kate Barker a member

of the Monetary Policy Committee of the Monetary Policy Committee

of the Monetary Policy Committee of the Monetary Policy Committee

for ten years, and now is a senior for ten years, and now is a senior

for ten years, and now is a senior adviser for Credit Suisse. Why is

adviser for Credit Suisse. Why is it, certainly people watching

it, certainly people watching it, certainly people watching

Harold Wilson, battling not to Harold Wilson, battling not to

Harold Wilson, battling not to devalue the pound in the 1960s,

devalue the pound in the 1960s, devalue the pound in the 1960s,

might be surprised that everyone is might be surprised that everyone is

might be surprised that everyone is so relaxed about the falling pound.

so relaxed about the falling pound. so relaxed about the falling pound.

so relaxed about the falling pound. Why are they so relaxed? Part low

Why are they so relaxed? Part low Why are they so relaxed? Part low

Why are they so relaxed? Part low because, I hesitate to say this, I

because, I hesitate to say this, I because, I hesitate to say this, I

don't think your presentation of don't think your presentation of

don't think your presentation of what happened to the pound was

what happened to the pound was what happened to the pound was

entirely accurate. The pound has entirely accurate. The pound has

entirely accurate. The pound has fallen since the days of Harold

fallen since the days of Harold fallen since the days of Harold

fallen since the days of Harold Wilson, but not for 20 years. Today

Wilson, but not for 20 years. Today Wilson, but not for 20 years. Today

Wilson, but not for 20 years. Today the pound is at $1.50 against the

the pound is at $1.50 against the the pound is at $1.50 against the

the pound is at $1.50 against the dollar. It has gone up and down.

dollar. It has gone up and down. dollar. It has gone up and down.

dollar. It has gone up and down. 30%. It goes up and down. In 1985

30%. It goes up and down. In 1985 30%. It goes up and down. In 1985

30%. It goes up and down. In 1985 the pound was worth $1.05, it has

the pound was worth $1.05, it has the pound was worth $1.05, it has

the pound was worth $1.05, it has gone up 50% in the last 25 years.

gone up 50% in the last 25 years. gone up 50% in the last 25 years.

It depends what your starting point It depends what your starting point

It depends what your starting point It depends what your starting point

It depends what your starting point is. What I was going to go on to

is. What I was going to go on to is. What I was going to go on to

is. What I was going to go on to say, if you look at the average

say, if you look at the average say, if you look at the average

level of the pound since Margaret level of the pound since Margaret

level of the pound since Margaret level of the pound since Margaret

Thatcher came to power in 1979, it Thatcher came to power in 1979, it

Thatcher came to power in 1979, it has been exactly $1.51, we are

has been exactly $1.51, we are has been exactly $1.51, we are

right on the long-term average. right on the long-term average.

right on the long-term average. right on the long-term average.

go back to the original point, we go back to the original point, we

go back to the original point, we go back to the original point, we

used to worry, if in the space of used to worry, if in the space of

used to worry, if in the space of used to worry, if in the space of

six weeks the pound had lost 7% of six weeks the pound had lost 7% of

six weeks the pound had lost 7% of its value, which has what's

its value, which has what's its value, which has what's

its value, which has what's happened this year. Why are we not

happened this year. Why are we not happened this year. Why are we not

worried. Explain to people, why is worried. Explain to people, why is

worried. Explain to people, why is worried. Explain to people, why is

worried. Explain to people, why is it felt to be a good thing for the

it felt to be a good thing for the it felt to be a good thing for the

it felt to be a good thing for the economy, maybe? It was one of the

economy, maybe? It was one of the breakthrough the of British

breakthrough the of British breakthrough the of British

economic policy that we stopped economic policy that we stopped

economic policy that we stopped worrying about the pound too much

worrying about the pound too much worrying about the pound too much

in 1992 after Black Wednesday. Now in 1992 after Black Wednesday. Now

in 1992 after Black Wednesday. Now in 1992 after Black Wednesday. Now

what are the benefits of a weaker what are the benefits of a weaker

what are the benefits of a weaker what are the benefits of a weaker

pound, they are that the value that pound, they are that the value that

pound, they are that the value that British exporters get for selling

British exporters get for selling British exporters get for selling

their goods abroad goes up. Today, their goods abroad goes up. Today,

their goods abroad goes up. Today, their goods abroad goes up. Today,

if they sell something for a dollar, if they sell something for a dollar,

if they sell something for a dollar, if they sell something for a dollar,

or $100, it is worth about �65, as or $100, it is worth about �65, as

or $100, it is worth about �65, as or $100, it is worth about �65, as

recently as four years ago, if they recently as four years ago, if they

recently as four years ago, if they recently as four years ago, if they

sold something for $00 it was worth sold something for $00 it was worth

sold something for $00 it was worth sold something for $00 it was worth

only �50. It makes it much more only �50. It makes it much more

only �50. It makes it much more profitable for British companies to

profitable for British companies to profitable for British companies to

sell their goods and services sell their goods and services

sell their goods and services abroad. That is the basic benefit.

abroad. That is the basic benefit. abroad. That is the basic benefit.

abroad. That is the basic benefit. There are down sides. Do you think

There are down sides. Do you think There are down sides. Do you think

There are down sides. Do you think this is, is it right to think this

this is, is it right to think this this is, is it right to think this

this is, is it right to think this this is, is it right to think this

is our only way out in a sense, we is our only way out in a sense, we

is our only way out in a sense, we is our only way out in a sense, we

need to make our goods cheaper in need to make our goods cheaper in

need to make our goods cheaper in need to make our goods cheaper in

the rest of the world to sell more the rest of the world to sell more

the rest of the world to sell more of them? I'm more worried that

of them? I'm more worried that of them? I'm more worried that

Anatole Kaletsky. We seem to have Anatole Kaletsky. We seem to have

Anatole Kaletsky. We seem to have Anatole Kaletsky. We seem to have

moved into a stage where we are moved into a stage where we are

moved into a stage where we are grasping at quick fixs to get

grasping at quick fixs to get grasping at quick fixs to get

grasping at quick fixs to get ourselves out of what is a complex

ourselves out of what is a complex ourselves out of what is a complex

ourselves out of what is a complex mess. Last week it was the GDP

mess. Last week it was the GDP mess. Last week it was the GDP

mess. Last week it was the GDP target and now it is the falling

target and now it is the falling target and now it is the falling

target and now it is the falling point pound. I'm not sure I want to

point pound. I'm not sure I want to point pound. I'm not sure I want to

see the pound further. The see the pound further. The

see the pound further. The immediate effect would be to slow

immediate effect would be to slow immediate effect would be to slow

growth because of the impact on growth because of the impact on

growth because of the impact on growth because of the impact on

real income. In the long run it is real income. In the long run it is

real income. In the long run it is real income. In the long run it is

good for exports, only if it stays good for exports, only if it stays

good for exports, only if it stays good for exports, only if it stays

low. It may not stay low. The other low. It may not stay low. The other

low. It may not stay low. The other low. It may not stay low. The other

thing is, actually, in the long run, thing is, actually, in the long run,

thing is, actually, in the long run, thing is, actually, in the long run,

what will make us better off is what will make us better off is

what will make us better off is actually if we have better

actually if we have better actually if we have better

productivity. If you take all the productivity. If you take all the

productivity. If you take all the pressure off everybody because you

pressure off everybody because you keep devaluing the pound,

keep devaluing the pound, productivity doesn't perform well.

productivity doesn't perform well. productivity doesn't perform well.

Our productivity has not performed Our productivity has not performed

Our productivity has not performed Our productivity has not performed

well recently we need to move away well recently we need to move away

well recently we need to move away well recently we need to move away

from qix fixes and get on with the from qix fixes and get on with the

from qix fixes and get on with the from qix fixes and get on with the

slow -- quick fixes, and get on slow -- quick fixes, and get on

slow -- quick fixes, and get on with the slow boring job of

with the slow boring job of with the slow boring job of

building the economy long-term. building the economy long-term.

building the economy long-term. building the economy long-term.

you didn't have the easy resort to you didn't have the easy resort to

you didn't have the easy resort to cheap currency, we might make tough

cheap currency, we might make tough decisions and increase productivity,

decisions and increase productivity, decisions and increase productivity,

decisions and increase productivity, the way the Germans do? There is a

the way the Germans do? There is a the way the Germans do? There is a

the way the Germans do? There is a point we don't want the pound to

point we don't want the pound to point we don't want the pound to

fall without limit, it would be fall without limit, it would be

fall without limit, it would be fall without limit, it would be

terrible if it fell back to where terrible if it fell back to where

terrible if it fell back to where it was under Margaret Thatcher,

it was under Margaret Thatcher, it was under Margaret Thatcher,

it was under Margaret Thatcher, worth a dollar. And I would agree

worth a dollar. And I would agree worth a dollar. And I would agree

with Kate that the best outcome with Kate that the best outcome

with Kate that the best outcome with Kate that the best outcome

would be if the pound stablised at would be if the pound stablised at

would be if the pound stablised at around about this level, give her

around about this level, give her around about this level, give her

around about this level, give her take a few per cent. One doesn't

take a few per cent. One doesn't take a few per cent. One doesn't

want an ever falling currency. Is want an ever falling currency. Is

want an ever falling currency. Is it better to confront big

it better to confront big it better to confront big

challengers if you are an exporter? challengers if you are an exporter?

challengers if you are an exporter? Well, it all depends how much

Well, it all depends how much Well, it all depends how much

momentum there already is in the momentum there already is in the

momentum there already is in the economy. How strong our companies

economy. How strong our companies economy. How strong our companies

are. There are certainly some are. There are certainly some

are. There are certainly some companies in Britain, as in Germany,

companies in Britain, as in Germany, companies in Britain, as in Germany,

that are capable of exporting that are capable of exporting

that are capable of exporting profitably, even with a strong

profitably, even with a strong profitably, even with a strong

profitably, even with a strong exchange rate. But we know that we

exchange rate. But we know that we exchange rate. But we know that we

don't have a large enough don't have a large enough

don't have a large enough manufacturing sector, we don't have

manufacturing sector, we don't have manufacturing sector, we don't have

a large enough export sector in a large enough export sector in

this country, especially following this country, especially following

this country, especially following the decline of the financial sector

the decline of the financial sector the decline of the financial sector

the decline of the financial sector on which we relied to stimulate the

on which we relied to stimulate the on which we relied to stimulate the

build up of small companies, which build up of small companies, which

build up of small companies, which by definition are going to be

by definition are going to be by definition are going to be

initial low struggling to sell initial low struggling to sell

initial low struggling to sell abroad. You want a weaker --

abroad. You want a weaker -- abroad. You want a weaker --

initially struggling to sell abroad. initially struggling to sell abroad.

initially struggling to sell abroad. initially struggling to sell abroad.

You want a weaker pound. We do feel You want a weaker pound. We do feel

You want a weaker pound. We do feel You want a weaker pound. We do feel

so grateful that we are not in the so grateful that we are not in the

so grateful that we are not in the eurozone, and that is what

eurozone, and that is what eurozone, and that is what

politicians on all sides say, how politicians on all sides say, how

politicians on all sides say, how politicians on all sides say, how

great it is we are not in the great it is we are not in the

great it is we are not in the eurozone and not having the

eurozone and not having the eurozone and not having the

problems of Spain. Do you sometimes problems of Spain. Do you sometimes

problems of Spain. Do you sometimes problems of Spain. Do you sometimes

think it is possible in ten years think it is possible in ten years

think it is possible in ten years time that they will look rather

time that they will look rather time that they will look rather

time that they will look rather strong and be forced to make the

strong and be forced to make the strong and be forced to make the

difficult decisions and do it the difficult decisions and do it the

difficult decisions and do it the difficult decisions and do it the

hard way, and we will still be hard way, and we will still be

hard way, and we will still be grappling around with our cheap

grappling around with our cheap grappling around with our cheap

currency, do you worry about that currency, do you worry about that

currency, do you worry about that currency, do you worry about that

at all, it is making us poorer? at all, it is making us poorer?

at all, it is making us poorer? at all, it is making us poorer?

That is what I'm hinting at. That That is what I'm hinting at. That

That is what I'm hinting at. That That is what I'm hinting at. That

That is what I'm hinting at. That is what had a is going on, we are

is what had a is going on, we are is what had a is going on, we are

making ourselves poorer in this way, making ourselves poorer in this way,

making ourselves poorer in this way, and not undertaking the struck url

and not undertaking the struck url and not undertaking the struck url

and not undertaking the struck url reforms. I'm not sure I would want

reforms. I'm not sure I would want reforms. I'm not sure I would want

reforms. I'm not sure I would want to be in the position that Spain is

to be in the position that Spain is to be in the position that Spain is

in, with a very high youth in, with a very high youth

in, with a very high youth unemployment. They are paying a

unemployment. They are paying a unemployment. They are paying a

terrible short-term price. But we terrible short-term price. But we

terrible short-term price. But we terrible short-term price. But we

have to be careful that we use the have to be careful that we use the

have to be careful that we use the have to be careful that we use the

room we have cut ourselves by being room we have cut ourselves by being

room we have cut ourselves by being room we have cut ourselves by being

able to devalue, by the fact we able to devalue, by the fact we

able to devalue, by the fact we able to devalue, by the fact we

still have our own currency s to still have our own currency s to

still have our own currency s to undertake these reforms. My worry

undertake these reforms. My worry undertake these reforms. My worry

undertake these reforms. My worry with the negligent of the pound is

with the negligent of the pound is with the negligent of the pound is

with the negligent of the pound is we are saying we will -- neglect of

we are saying we will -- neglect of we are saying we will -- neglect of

we are saying we will -- neglect of the pound is saying we will carry

the pound is saying we will carry the pound is saying we will carry

on doing the same things and on doing the same things and

on doing the same things and putting the reforms off forever,

putting the reforms off forever, putting the reforms off forever,

putting the reforms off forever, and then in ten years time we look

and then in ten years time we look and then in ten years time we look

and then in ten years time we look across the channel as we often do,

across the channel as we often do, across the channel as we often do,

across the channel as we often do, and say we missed a trick.

and say we missed a trick. decent Edwardian middle-class

decent Edwardian middle-class decent Edwardian middle-class

living room would have been living room would have been

living room would have been complete without one, but no longer,

complete without one, but no longer, complete without one, but no longer,

complete without one, but no longer, it seems. You might not have been

it seems. You might not have been very preturbed Bihar rods

very preturbed Bihar rods very preturbed Bihar rods

announcement last month that it was announcement last month that it was

announcement last month that it was ditching its piano department. For

ditching its piano department. For ditching its piano department. For

ditching its piano department. For some it felt like the death notice

some it felt like the death notice some it felt like the death notice

for a certain kind of social for a certain kind of social

for a certain kind of social aspiration that our parents might

aspiration that our parents might aspiration that our parents might

have understood. What is behind the have understood. What is behind the

have understood. What is behind the descending scale of piano sales.

descending scale of piano sales. descending scale of piano sales.

If you thought we loved and If you thought we loved and

If you thought we loved and cherished our dear old pianos, I'm

cherished our dear old pianos, I'm cherished our dear old pianos, I'm

cherished our dear old pianos, I'm afraid the scales are about to fall

afraid the scales are about to fall afraid the scales are about to fall

afraid the scales are about to fall from your eyes. This is what top

from your eyes. This is what top from your eyes. This is what top

store Harolds is doing to the store Harolds is doing to the

store Harolds is doing to the pianos. Not literally, dear viewer,

pianos. Not literally, dear viewer, pianos. Not literally, dear viewer,

pianos. Not literally, dear viewer, as our lawyers are keen for us to

as our lawyers are keen for us to as our lawyers are keen for us to

point out. But Harrods have closed point out. But Harrods have closed

point out. But Harrods have closed point out. But Harrods have closed

their piano hall, due to what they their piano hall, due to what they

their piano hall, due to what they called the ever changing needs of

called the ever changing needs of It is a bit shoddy of them. I

It is a bit shoddy of them. I It is a bit shoddy of them. I

thought you were supposed to get thought you were supposed to get

thought you were supposed to get anything there. An elephant?You go

anything there. An elephant?You go anything there. An elephant?You go

anything there. An elephant?You go an ask an elephant and ticket to

an ask an elephant and ticket to an ask an elephant and ticket to

an ask an elephant and ticket to the moon, and I will have a piano,

the moon, and I will have a piano, the moon, and I will have a piano,

the moon, and I will have a piano, we don't have one of those, please,

we don't have one of those, please, we don't have one of those, please,

we don't have one of those, please, do us a favour. If it weren't for

do us a favour. If it weren't for do us a favour. If it weren't for

do us a favour. If it weren't for pianos in house, why there would be

pianos in house, why there would be pianos in house, why there would be

pianos in house, why there would be no-one to serenade the new year on

no-one to serenade the new year on no-one to serenade the new year on

BBC Two. That's right, Jools BBC Two. That's right, Jools

BBC Two. That's right, Jools BBC Two. That's right, Jools

Holland would be doing else for a Holland would be doing else for a

Holland would be doing else for a Holland would be doing else for a

living. In the 1920s and 30s there living. In the 1920s and 30s there

living. In the 1920s and 30s there were more pianos than motorcars. My

were more pianos than motorcars. My were more pianos than motorcars. My

were more pianos than motorcars. My nan had a piano in her front room,

nan had a piano in her front room, nan had a piano in her front room,

nan had a piano in her front room, that was the only reason I learned.

that was the only reason I learned. that was the only reason I learned.

that was the only reason I learned. I fear that the piano has been put

I fear that the piano has been put I fear that the piano has been put

I fear that the piano has been put to the bottom of the list. Where as

to the bottom of the list. Where as to the bottom of the list. Where as

to the bottom of the list. Where as of course it should be at the top

of course it should be at the top of course it should be at the top

of course it should be at the top of the list. Unlike a big flat

of the list. Unlike a big flat of the list. Unlike a big flat

screen television and new fridge or screen television and new fridge or

screen television and new fridge or whatever the thing is, all those

whatever the thing is, all those whatever the thing is, all those

things you chuck them away after things you chuck them away after

things you chuck them away after five years. We know that's what

five years. We know that's what five years. We know that's what

happens to them. They don't last. happens to them. They don't last.

happens to them. They don't last. happens to them. They don't last.

As a piano, you will have for As a piano, you will have for

As a piano, you will have for yourself, your children and your

yourself, your children and your yourself, your children and your

children's children. It is one of children's children. It is one of

children's children. It is one of children's children. It is one of

the few things you buy for a the few things you buy for a

the few things you buy for a the few things you buy for a

lifetime. It is the only thing I lifetime. It is the only thing I

lifetime. It is the only thing I lifetime. It is the only thing I

can think of you buy for a lifetime. can think of you buy for a lifetime.

can think of you buy for a lifetime. Emotionally young out by scenes of

Emotionally young out by scenes of Emotionally young out by scenes of

tumbling upright. I have sought out tumbling upright. I have sought out

tumbling upright. I have sought out the sanctuary and balmof Finchcocks

the sanctuary and balmof Finchcocks the sanctuary and balmof Finchcocks

the sanctuary and balmof Finchcocks in Kent. This Georgian pile is now

in Kent. This Georgian pile is now in Kent. This Georgian pile is now

a piano museum. In the grounds a piano museum. In the grounds

restorers labour painstakingly over restorers labour painstakingly over

restorers labour painstakingly over restorers labour painstakingly over

old models, as they have been for 200 years.

200 years. 200 years.

They can give instruments like They can give instruments like

They can give instruments like They can give instruments like

these a new lease of life. They are these a new lease of life. They are

these a new lease of life. They are these a new lease of life. They are

the boys who take the "no" out of the boys who take the "no" out of

the boys who take the "no" out of the boys who take the "no" out of

pian-no. Our order book is full of pian-no. Our order book is full of

pian-no. Our order book is full of restoration on old Broadwood. There

restoration on old Broadwood. There restoration on old Broadwood. There

is still interest in old pianos, is still interest in old pianos,

is still interest in old pianos, even though sales are declining.

even though sales are declining. even though sales are declining.

even though sales are declining. There has been a fall in the sales

There has been a fall in the sales There has been a fall in the sales

of pianos, from 14,000 to 4,000 today.

today. today.

today. Hello there, after a hard day of

Hello there, after a hard day of investigative journalism, there is

investigative journalism, there is investigative journalism, there is

nothing I like better than nothing I like better than

nothing I like better than unwinding over one of Chopin's less

unwinding over one of Chopin's less unwinding over one of Chopin's less

challenging works. But much as I challenging works. But much as I

challenging works. But much as I enjoy this old beauty here, her

enjoy this old beauty here, her enjoy this old beauty here, her

tone, her quality. She's not very tone, her quality. She's not very

tone, her quality. She's not very tone, her quality. She's not very

practical for life on the road on practical for life on the road on

practical for life on the road on Newsnight assignments. And that is

Newsnight assignments. And that is Newsnight assignments. And that is

Newsnight assignments. And that is why I have come round to something

why I have come round to something why I have come round to something

lighter, more portable and whisper lighter, more portable and whisper

lighter, more portable and whisper it, "more electronic". Bit heavy on

it, "more electronic". Bit heavy on The rise of the machines, back in

The rise of the machines, back in The rise of the machines, back in

The rise of the machines, back in the music room at Finchcocks, it is

the music room at Finchcocks, it is the music room at Finchcocks, it is

the music room at Finchcocks, it is time to unmask the culprit in this

time to unmask the culprit in this time to unmask the culprit in this

whole affair. The electronic piano whole affair. The electronic piano

whole affair. The electronic piano has made huge inroads in recent

has made huge inroads in recent has made huge inroads in recent

years, that is maybe why Harrods years, that is maybe why Harrods

years, that is maybe why Harrods are closing their department. We

are closing their department. We are closing their department. We

know, for example, that typically know, for example, that typically

know, for example, that typically 16-20 new electronic pianos are

16-20 new electronic pianos are 16-20 new electronic pianos are

sold to one acoustic piano. sold to one acoustic piano.

sold to one acoustic piano. # Where is my indifference

# Where is my indifference # Where is my indifference

Bands like Fiction are enthusiastic Bands like Fiction are enthusiastic

Bands like Fiction are enthusiastic about what digital key boards can

about what digital key boards can about what digital key boards can

bring to their music. With a bring to their music. With a

bring to their music. With a synthesiser you can edit the sounds

synthesiser you can edit the sounds synthesiser you can edit the sounds

in numerous different ways. You can in numerous different ways. You can

in numerous different ways. You can in numerous different ways. You can

have just the bare sound like that, have just the bare sound like that,

have just the bare sound like that, and then an arpeggeo on that,

and then an arpeggeo on that, and then an arpeggeo on that,

and then an arpeggeo on that, change the tempo of that. A lot of

change the tempo of that. A lot of change the tempo of that. A lot of

change the tempo of that. A lot of the composing I do at home is using

the composing I do at home is using the composing I do at home is using

computer. So there aren't any computer. So there aren't any

computer. So there aren't any sounds on the keyboard.

sounds on the keyboard. possiblities are infinate? Yes,

possiblities are infinate? Yes, possiblities are infinate? Yes,

that is the thing about an that is the thing about an

electronic keyboard, particularly a electronic keyboard, particularly a

electronic keyboard, particularly a synthesiser, is the variety of

synthesiser, is the variety of synthesiser, is the variety of

synthesiser, is the variety of sounds. That is why I enjoy using

sounds. That is why I enjoy using sounds. That is why I enjoy using

sounds. That is why I enjoy using them. You turn it on, and you never

them. You turn it on, and you never them. You turn it on, and you never

know what sound you will create. know what sound you will create.

know what sound you will create. know what sound you will create.

Is that it then? The piano has Is that it then? The piano has

Is that it then? The piano has fallen silent? And all we can

fallen silent? And all we can fallen silent? And all we can

expect to hear in London's expect to hear in London's

expect to hear in London's glittering West End is Karaoke bar,

glittering West End is Karaoke bar, glittering West End is Karaoke bar,

glittering West End is Karaoke bar, a fashionable DJ. Or maybe it is

a fashionable DJ. Or maybe it is a fashionable DJ. Or maybe it is

a fashionable DJ. Or maybe it is just these old ears of mine. I seem

just these old ears of mine. I seem just these old ears of mine. I seem

just these old ears of mine. I seem to hear the throb of an old-time

to hear the throb of an old-time to hear the throb of an old-time

upright piano, coming from inside upright piano, coming from inside

this famous media pub. this famous media pub.

this famous media pub. Coach & Horses of Soho.

Coach & Horses of Soho. Coach & Horses of Soho.

Coach & Horses of Soho. Yes, it's Baz and Dave, the right

Yes, it's Baz and Dave, the right regular knees up.

regular knees up. regular knees up.

# My old man's a dustman # My old man's a dustman

# My old man's a dustman # He wears a dustman's hat

# He wears a dustman's hat # He wears a dustman's hat

# He wears cor blimey trousers. # He wears cor blimey trousers.

# He wears cor blimey trousers. # He wears cor blimey trousers.

He put the piano in the pub about He put the piano in the pub about

He put the piano in the pub about five years ago to put the

five years ago to put the traditional entertainment in the

traditional entertainment in the traditional entertainment in the

traditional entertainment in the pub. Have you you had a sing-a-

pub. Have you you had a sing-a- pub. Have you you had a sing-a-

long? We have, they haven't started long? We have, they haven't started

long? We have, they haven't started playing Raw Hide yet. What about

playing Raw Hide yet. What about playing Raw Hide yet. What about

Harolds getting rid of their piano Harolds getting rid of their piano

Harolds getting rid of their piano departments? I'm disgusted!The old

departments? I'm disgusted!The old departments? I'm disgusted!The old

departments? I'm disgusted!The old Johan that may be heard less often

Johan that may be heard less often Johan that may be heard less often

around the domestic heart, but we around the domestic heart, but we

around the domestic heart, but we around the domestic heart, but we

didn't we nigh it still has its didn't we nigh it still has its

didn't we nigh it still has its didn't we nigh it still has its

charm. The piano has been with us charm. The piano has been with us

charm. The piano has been with us charm. The piano has been with us

since 1698, you hum it and I will since 1698, you hum it and I will

since 1698, you hum it and I will since 1698, you hum it and I will

play it! Review is up next, Martha play it! Review is up next, Martha

play it! Review is up next, Martha Kearney and her guests are in

Kearney and her guests are in Kearney and her guests are in

Glasgow. I hope you will be Glasgow. I hope you will be

Glasgow. I hope you will be watching us tonight, we have Pop

watching us tonight, we have Pop Art legend Lichtenstein's modern

Art legend Lichtenstein's modern retrospective. Richard Gere plays

retrospective. Richard Gere plays retrospective. Richard Gere plays

retrospective. Richard Gere plays the villain in his first film in

the villain in his first film in the villain in his first film in

four years. Jeremy Irons travels four years. Jeremy Irons travels

four years. Jeremy Irons travels four years. Jeremy Irons travels

the word to expose the problem of the word to expose the problem of

the word to expose the problem of the word to expose the problem of

pollution. We have the victim of an pollution. We have the victim of an

pollution. We have the victim of an on-line stalker, and Sue Perkins

on-line stalker, and Sue Perkins on-line stalker, and Sue Perkins

on-line stalker, and Sue Perkins moves from Bake Off to sitcom. That

moves from Bake Off to sitcom. That moves from Bake Off to sitcom. That

moves from Bake Off to sitcom. That is all for this week. Reports of

is all for this week. Reports of is all for this week. Reports of

is all for this week. Reports of the death of the British piano may

the death of the British piano may the death of the British piano may

the death of the British piano may turn out to be true, I can't

turn out to be true, I can't turn out to be true, I can't

turn out to be true, I can't believe they will be, not just yet.

believe they will be, not just yet. believe they will be, not just yet.