Browse content similar to 15/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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United States have tightened security on public buildings after | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
three explosions tonight in Boston. Local police are saying that two | 0:00:10 | 0:00:14 | |
people have been killed, and 23 wounded. We expect more information | 0:00:14 | 0:00:21 | |
shortly. They happened as runners in the | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
Boston Marathon were approaching the finishing line. They happened | 0:00:24 | 0:00:30 | |
in full public view. But there are, as yet, few details further, and of | 0:00:30 | 0:00:36 | |
course no forensic evidence. In Britain it doesn't feel that much | 0:00:36 | 0:00:43 | |
like spring. That's one lamb too many. Not if you are a farmer | 0:00:43 | 0:00:48 | |
salvaging what remains of your livestock. What or who is to blame | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
for their tenuous grip on economic survival? This last three weeks you | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
know when you are in the lambing shed in the middle of the night, I | 0:00:58 | 0:01:05 | |
have thought what the hellam I doing -- hell am I doing here? | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
will ask if the industry has much of a future the way it is currently | 0:01:08 | 0:01:13 | |
run. How has multicultural allowed the | 0:01:13 | 0:01:21 | |
bigotry of the Indian caste system be brought into Britain. When he | 0:01:21 | 0:01:27 | |
called you untow touchable what does that mean?Th Is happening here, | 0:01:27 | 0:01:35 | |
which I never expected. The facts are few, the fastest runners were | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
well home and the stragglers still well out on the course when there | 0:01:38 | 0:01:44 | |
were two explosions near the finish line of the marathon in Boston, and | 0:01:44 | 0:01:48 | |
one other at the JFK Library. A short while ago Boston Police said | 0:01:48 | 0:01:52 | |
three people had been killed and 23 injured. Organisers of the London | 0:01:53 | 0:01:58 | |
Marathon next Sunday say they are reviewing security here, and across | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
America there are already intensified precautions in place. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:04 | |
But there are as yet no details of the cause of the blast. Just before | 0:02:04 | 0:02:11 | |
coming on air the commissioner of Boston Police, Ed Davies spoke to | 0:02:11 | 0:02:17 | |
police. At 2.50pm today there were simultaneous explosions that | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
occurred along the route of the Boston Marathon near the finish | 0:02:21 | 0:02:28 | |
line. These explosions occurred 50- 100 yards apart. Each scene | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
resulted in multiple casualties. We have at this point in time | 0:02:32 | 0:02:37 | |
determined that there has been a third incident that has occurred. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
There was an explosion that occurred at the JFK Library. So | 0:02:42 | 0:02:46 | |
this is very much an on going event at this point in time. We are not | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
certain that these incidents are related, we are treating them as if | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
they are. We are recommending people that they stay home. That if | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
they are in hotels in the I can't remember that they return to their | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
rooms and that they don't go any place and congregate in large crowd. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:05 | |
We want to make sure we completely stablise the situation. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:10 | |
Let's speak to the BBC's North America editor in Washington. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
Is there anything else you can add to that police summary? I think it | 0:03:14 | 0:03:19 | |
is obvious that they are taking it extremely seriously. Although they | 0:03:19 | 0:03:24 | |
are not using the words "terrorism" or "bomb" at the moment, they are | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
pointing that way. Treating it like that. The marathon organisers do | 0:03:27 | 0:03:34 | |
use the word "bomb attacks", so do many other people around. The | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
police have not only told people not to congregate, but they have | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
shut down the cellphone network. They can be used to trigger | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
explosion, the airport has been shut down. This may be out of an | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
excess of caution. We don't definitely know that this was a | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
deliberate attack. But certainly the police are treating it as it | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
were, and there are also signs in other cities that security is being | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
tightened again. It may just be a precaution. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:05 | |
Something is happening in New York too isn't it? Yes, they have moved | 0:04:05 | 0:04:13 | |
in security to the toll roads and things like that, along the bridges. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
At the White House they have shut off Pennsylvania Avenue in front of | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
it and moved people back from that. There are signs this is being taken | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
very seriously as you might expect. One of the things that says is not | 0:04:24 | 0:04:29 | |
so much they know what this is, but that since 9/11 there have been | 0:04:29 | 0:04:34 | |
continuous reviews of how the Homeland Security behave, and that | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
things have swung into action, looking at the pictures coming from | 0:04:38 | 0:04:44 | |
the marathon itself, it seemed that people were very well prepared to | 0:04:44 | 0:04:48 | |
act and to go into action to help the injured and maybe you would | 0:04:48 | 0:04:52 | |
expect that at a big event. Clearly there were plans that looked as | 0:04:52 | 0:04:57 | |
though they worked. The other thing, I think I would say is if this does | 0:04:57 | 0:05:04 | |
turn out to be terrorism, don't immediately jump to conclusions | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
about who is responsible. It is more than rumour, it is chatter | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
from within the Intelligence Services that suggests it might not | 0:05:11 | 0:05:17 | |
be what one's minds perhaps leaps to of Islamic radicals, but that it | 0:05:17 | 0:05:25 | |
could be home-grown extremists who have attacked in the past within | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
America. One recalls the Oklahoma bomb which was attributed first of | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
all to Islamic terrorists and turned out to be home-grown? Yes, | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
and there is reports that happened on, and I'm saying reports, I | 0:05:37 | 0:05:42 | |
haven't had time to check it out, that happened also on patriot day, | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
which is today, the first Monday in April. That might have a special | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
significance. We know that the Homeland Security have, ever since | 0:05:52 | 0:05:56 | |
President Obama was elected, within on potential alert for an incident | 0:05:56 | 0:06:01 | |
that came from the right, as well as their continual alert about | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
potential Islamic terrorism. What is this general state of security | 0:06:05 | 0:06:12 | |
alert in the United States at present? It is fairly high at | 0:06:12 | 0:06:17 | |
airports. You know, the security process at airports very rigorous. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
You have to go through, as you do in Britain, as you do all over the | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
world a very tight procedure. But you don't actually, but obviously | 0:06:25 | 0:06:30 | |
the police are armed here. You don't see the level of policing | 0:06:30 | 0:06:35 | |
that I have seen at Heathrow or in Paris train stations. That isn't | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
quite as visible here always. Thank you very much indeed. Let's | 0:06:39 | 0:06:48 | |
speak now to Frank Gaffney, also in Washington, he's President of the | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
Centre for Security Policy there. This has come completely out of the | 0:06:53 | 0:06:59 | |
blue there has it? Are you hearing me? In the sense that nobody, I'm | 0:06:59 | 0:07:05 | |
hearing you loud and clear, can you hear me. Hello. Yes, please go | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
ahead? I'm hearing you. What I was saying is that I think it is out of | 0:07:08 | 0:07:13 | |
the blue in the sense that this specific attack at the specific | 0:07:13 | 0:07:17 | |
moment in time at the specific place was, as far as I know, not | 0:07:17 | 0:07:21 | |
something we had any warning about. But we have been on notice for a | 0:07:21 | 0:07:28 | |
long time that America is a target. I think particularly the kinds of | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
congregations of people, like this one, make it an obvious place that | 0:07:33 | 0:07:38 | |
security has to be heightened. I fear that we have become rather | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
complacent in recent years that there haven't been more of these | 0:07:41 | 0:07:46 | |
kinds of episodes to keep our guard up, as it should be. We must be | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
cautious, of course, we don't even know that it was a bombing at this | 0:07:50 | 0:07:59 | |
point, do we? The police are fairly clear on that now. Yes, and I | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
believe they have found several other devices that were not | 0:08:03 | 0:08:10 | |
observation ploded. They presume -- -- that were not exploded. Prejidor | 0:08:10 | 0:08:17 | |
sumeably have a good read on that. I don't think we are giving the | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
attack the right look at the moment. It was at minimum a terrorist | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
attack, while the exact perpetrator hasn't been identified as far as I | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
can tell they certainly wanted to do harm to a lot of Americans. And | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
for that matter others. This is an international event in Boston the | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
marathon. By definition anybody who puts a bomb into a public place | 0:08:36 | 0:08:42 | |
like that is a terrorist of some kind, is he not? Is there any | 0:08:42 | 0:08:49 | |
suggestion as to what quarter it might have come from? Well, you do | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
find people who are simply psychopaths, as opposed to | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
terrorists, it is a distinction I don't particular cotton to myself. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:02 | |
There has been one report out of the New York Post that a Saudi | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
national is under custody in a hospital room. I don't know whether | 0:09:06 | 0:09:10 | |
to credit that or not, and I don't know that anybody else has reported | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
that. For the moment we have to wait for the investigation to find | 0:09:16 | 0:09:23 | |
what it can about the provenance of this particular attack. You said a | 0:09:23 | 0:09:28 | |
moment ago that America was on notice of possible danger. Why is | 0:09:28 | 0:09:33 | |
that? Is it to do with events in the Middle East or what? I think we | 0:09:33 | 0:09:39 | |
have been on notice since well before 9/11 that we are the object | 0:09:39 | 0:09:44 | |
of the enmity of individuals who adhere to a doctrine they call | 0:09:44 | 0:09:48 | |
sariia. We are the impediment to its imposition worldwide. I think | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
they have sought, both interestingly enough through | 0:09:51 | 0:09:56 | |
violent means, and through pre- violent means, to impose it on us, | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
as I believe they are in the UK and other places. They are not the only | 0:10:00 | 0:10:05 | |
people who wish us ill. They are not the only people who do us harm. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
They are a particularly serious threat. I think particular low | 0:10:10 | 0:10:17 | |
because we have failed to attend at all really to the non-violent or | 0:10:17 | 0:10:23 | |
pre-violent aspect of what the Muslim Brotherhood calls | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
civilisation Jihad. We will see what evidence emerges. Thank you | 0:10:25 | 0:10:30 | |
very much. There was a unilateral declaration of spring today, and a | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
collective sigh of relief. The idea of Britain, what we imagine this | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
country to be is deeply invested in the countryside. For the men and | 0:10:37 | 0:10:41 | |
women who live there and try to make it yield them a living though, | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
the promise of spring is something else. British farming is in crisis. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:50 | |
It is not an original headline but what is new is this isn't a crisis | 0:10:50 | 0:10:57 | |
of the kind we have had to get used to in sheep or dairy farming or | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
cereal growing, it is everywhere. The sap is rising, the birds are | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
singing and the lambs are gambling, and the farmers are moaning. This | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
time they do have something to moan about, agriculture is in decline. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:15 | |
In 1970 farming made up 2.8% of Britain's economy, today it is just | 0:11:15 | 0:11:20 | |
0.7%. All farms are expected to earn less this year than last. The | 0:11:20 | 0:11:25 | |
average English cereal farmer might see his income fall by 11% on last | 0:11:25 | 0:11:30 | |
year. A lowland livestock farmer can expect an income fall of | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
perhaps 44% this year, and hill farm, where the average profit is | 0:11:33 | 0:11:40 | |
said to have been a mere �6,000, could see their income fall by over | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
half. The weather has been no friend, last month snowstorms are | 0:11:44 | 0:11:49 | |
said to have killed 50,000 animals, while crop farmers have also been | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
affected. Potato planting for this year are predicted to be a seventh | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
of what they were last year. The UK's expected to import more than | 0:11:57 | 0:12:02 | |
twice the quantity of grain shipped here last year. Retailers are | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
already predicting the bad weather will drive up food prices. Ten | 0:12:05 | 0:12:11 | |
years ago the average weekly shop on food and non-alcoholic drinks | 0:12:11 | 0:12:16 | |
was �43.50, the most recent figures show that now costs just short of | 0:12:16 | 0:12:21 | |
�55 a week. Nothing in the garden is coming up rosy. We have been | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
hearing the stories of three farmers, and you might some of the | 0:12:26 | 0:12:36 | |
0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | ||
images in her report upsetting. I have farmed here all my life, I | 0:12:40 | 0:12:50 | |
0:12:50 | 0:12:50 | ||
have never seen weather like it during April. Jack Jones family | 0:12:50 | 0:12:54 | |
have been farming here on the Welsh border on the foot hill of the | 0:12:54 | 0:13:00 | |
mountains since the 17th century. think there is about 15 sheep | 0:13:00 | 0:13:05 | |
missing down along here. We get a lot of losses with something like | 0:13:05 | 0:13:11 | |
this, it is just well pretty horrific. Every day Jack's been | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
finding dead sheep. They were caught in a blizzard just as they | 0:13:14 | 0:13:21 | |
were starting to lamb. So far he has found more than 70ewes and 200- | 0:13:21 | 0:13:31 | |
0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | ||
lambs. Nature is a cruel thing. The Buzzcocks have had her eyes now. -- | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
the buzzards have her eyes now, luckily she only had one lamb, that | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
is one lamb too many. Now we will come back later on and pick that | 0:13:41 | 0:13:46 | |
one up. Nature has been unforgiving for | 0:13:46 | 0:13:53 | |
much of the last year. Before the snow there was the rain. The grass | 0:13:53 | 0:13:58 | |
didn't grow properly and so this flock's spring diet consists of | 0:13:58 | 0:14:04 | |
winter feed, grain, which is costing Jack �500 a day. All in all | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
it has been a horrendous 12 month, we can't really blame the | 0:14:07 | 0:14:12 | |
politicians for the weather, but the feed costs and things like that, | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
fuel costs are crippling. Really crippling. You are hoping to be | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
able to pass this farm on to your grandson, if he decides, he's very | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
little, if he decides to be a farmer? Yeah, yeah.Are you worried | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
about what you are going to be passing on? The way farming is | 0:14:28 | 0:14:34 | |
going, we have to produce more and more to keep exactly where we are. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
My grandfather could survive here on perhaps 100 sheep, I'm keeping | 0:14:38 | 0:14:43 | |
over 2,000 to be in exactly the same place, really. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:49 | |
I love farming and it is not a job it is a way of life. Now this last | 0:14:49 | 0:14:53 | |
three weeks you know when you are in the lambing shed in the middle | 0:14:53 | 0:15:01 | |
of the night, I have thought what the hell am I doing here, really. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:06 | |
In Warwickshire Jim Meadows is wondering why he bothered to plant | 0:15:06 | 0:15:11 | |
wheat. He has very little to show for it. With the wet weather and | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
slug there is nothing there now. There is just the odd little bit of | 0:15:14 | 0:15:19 | |
wheat. This is the odd little bit of wheat, most of this is blood | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
grass. It is a weed. In a good year where would the wheat be now? | 0:15:23 | 0:15:29 | |
way up my Wellingtons, this time of year, nice, lush crop looking | 0:15:29 | 0:15:34 | |
really well. There is nothing there as you can see, just weeds. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
Jimmy's pitiful crop is hardly an isolated case, yields are so low in | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
Britain that this year it is expected from going to be a net | 0:15:42 | 0:15:50 | |
exporter of wheat to a net importer. We are producing something of two- | 0:15:50 | 0:15:57 | |
and-a-half to 3 ,000 tonnes of wheat each other. This year what we | 0:15:57 | 0:16:03 | |
planted is not going. We will only produce between 200-300 tonne of | 0:16:03 | 0:16:12 | |
wheat, 10% of what we normally do. You need to watch Jill Blythe with | 0:16:12 | 0:16:18 | |
her dairy herd to understand why she gave up her job in banking to | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
run the family's farm in Shropshire, she didn't doing it for the money. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:25 | |
By now the cows should be out to pasture, but the fields are sodden, | 0:16:26 | 0:16:29 | |
so instead they are inside eating up thousands of pound worth of feed, | 0:16:29 | 0:16:36 | |
and with it any profit. Do you think for many dairy farmers, dairy | 0:16:36 | 0:16:41 | |
farming doesn't make an awful lot of financial sense? I'm sure that's | 0:16:41 | 0:16:48 | |
true. I'm sure that's true. Why? I'm a very positive person, but the | 0:16:48 | 0:16:56 | |
last six months I have seen us financially come to our knees. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
Because I'm a positive person I think there is still a future in it, | 0:16:59 | 0:17:04 | |
and we will keep going to the last pound to go into the future. I'm | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
sure there are a lot of people who have had enough of this and they | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
still want to continue with it. is not just the weather, it is also | 0:17:10 | 0:17:17 | |
the price of milk. It costs about 32p a litre to produce milk, we are | 0:17:17 | 0:17:21 | |
being paid 28p, do the math, it doesn't stack up. It has to come | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
from somewhere, in our case it comes from mine and my father | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
assuages. We don't pay ourselves. How much are you earning an hour? | 0:17:29 | 0:17:36 | |
�1.35. I have worked it out. Until ten years ago it was Jill's father | 0:17:36 | 0:17:41 | |
Clifford who ran the farm. He now spend his time giving support to | 0:17:41 | 0:17:46 | |
farmers who can't cope. In the late 80s and 90s we had a terrible | 0:17:46 | 0:17:51 | |
situation where a lot of farmers were takinging their own lives. We | 0:17:51 | 0:18:01 | |
0:18:01 | 0:18:01 | ||
don't want to go back to that state again. I got a call yesterday and I | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
have to see a farmer today, I believe he has livestock and he | 0:18:04 | 0:18:08 | |
can't afford to pay the feed to feed them because he can't loose | 0:18:08 | 0:18:13 | |
them out on the grass today. That is just me. This is going to go | 0:18:13 | 0:18:20 | |
right through the country surely. Strenuous, often lonely with | 0:18:20 | 0:18:25 | |
unsociable hours. Farming is a strange job. So why do it? When you | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
have lambs, you have a responsibility to produce food. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
With recent press on foreign food being imported into this country | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
that isn't safe and has got no provenance, I think it is more | 0:18:38 | 0:18:43 | |
important now than ever for British farmers to produce good-quality | 0:18:43 | 0:18:48 | |
food for our British people. talk about this now is Roger Saul, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
the founder of the British designer label, Mulberry, who now owns the | 0:18:53 | 0:19:03 | |
0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | ||
farm and food brand Sharp and Park. And the author of Panic On A Plate, | 0:19:05 | 0:19:15 | |
0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | ||
and a member of the benevolent fund. How bad is it? Very bad, there is | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
that feeling among some parts of the public that farmers are wealthy | 0:19:22 | 0:19:26 | |
and you never see poor farmers, but believe me, one in four farmers is | 0:19:26 | 0:19:31 | |
actually living on or below the poverty line. That's according to a | 0:19:31 | 0:19:36 | |
Government statistic in 2010. job is to basically help out | 0:19:36 | 0:19:40 | |
farmers in financial distress? That's right we have been around as | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
a charity since 1860, what we are seeing today is really a sea change. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:50 | |
People have been in need for many, many years. What has changed in our | 0:19:50 | 0:19:55 | |
part of the world, the helping world, is it is working farmers who | 0:19:56 | 0:20:01 | |
are coming to us now, not just the elderly and or disabled farmers we | 0:20:01 | 0:20:06 | |
have helped in the past. What do you think is is the root cause of | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
the problem? When I bought our farm, we are now mixed economy, it was | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
dairy. It was already going bust. Effectively clearly as we came in | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
we thought this is not an industry to make easy money out of. We tried | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
to base it around a product we could take into a brand, a brand | 0:20:23 | 0:20:30 | |
that went from farm, to food, to retail. That has worked. If I look | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
at the enterprises, the wholesale and the farming, my farming is | 0:20:33 | 0:20:38 | |
making a loss. If I took advice today I would put solar panelling | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
in and that is the only way to sustain a profit in the farm. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
without supsidies we really would be in trouble, wouldn't we? I think | 0:20:46 | 0:20:50 | |
the logic of the situation is to say an awful lot of smal small | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
farmers need to get out of the business -- small farmers need to | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
get out of the business. It is a hard thing to say when you see the | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
hardship people are going through. We have seen it in other industries | 0:21:00 | 0:21:03 | |
in past decades, mines and steel industries closing. There is a | 0:21:04 | 0:21:10 | |
point at which you have to say for small farmers just not economic any | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
more, and throwing more supsidies at the situation or more advantages | 0:21:14 | 0:21:19 | |
would be a mistake. That is an obvious lesson, if you can't cut it | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
get out of it? Well said but think of it from another point of view. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
You will find most large farmers are losing money at the same time | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
at the moment. They may be able to hold over, but take the economic | 0:21:29 | 0:21:35 | |
situation where the banks are not lending. The term "overdraft" has | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
gone, and today there isn't cashflow to help a small or big | 0:21:38 | 0:21:42 | |
farmer go forward. If the Government could ease cash, and you | 0:21:42 | 0:21:48 | |
have to remember subsidies come from Europe, the Common | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
Agricultural Policy. All Europeans get the same, if you say British | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
farmers shouldn't have it you get an uneven playing field. Some | 0:21:55 | 0:21:59 | |
people sitting at home will think they have to make their own living | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
without expecting people to stick their hands in their October pocket | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
to give them money, why not farm -- in their pocket to give them money, | 0:22:06 | 0:22:13 | |
why not farmers? They want fair price. They also say they don't | 0:22:13 | 0:22:18 | |
want subsidies? That is true, on the vts you saw you have people | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
passionate about their produefplts we all need food. One of the things | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
the public has to understand is we have come a long way in | 0:22:24 | 0:22:28 | |
understanding the growth, if you like, of an industry, so we | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
understand the transfer from food in the field to food on our plate. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
We have to think more and more about the people whom we all depend | 0:22:35 | 0:22:43 | |
on for our own survival, farmers. Why doesn't the market work here? | 0:22:43 | 0:22:48 | |
We have a number of ways working in the market, subsidies is one of | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
them. Also barriers on scale, in the last year or two we have seen | 0:22:51 | 0:22:57 | |
two very large farms, a pig and dairy farm refused planning | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
permission. That is the trajectory of every previous industry you look | 0:23:00 | 0:23:07 | |
at, is it goes big, gets economies of scale and improves productivity. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
There seems to be barriers to that as well. In terms it of Biotech we | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
should see more of that used to improve yields 0 so the prices can | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
come down and the -- yields, so the prices are come down. I suppose if | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
you are a farmer you have always had to deal with the weather hadn't | 0:23:23 | 0:23:32 | |
you? Yeah, but going back to the fashion business, farming margins | 0:23:32 | 0:23:38 | |
are atroious -- atrocious. I came out of handbag where is I make 50- | 0:23:38 | 0:23:44 | |
60%, farming is less than 5%. 90% or more of land is farmment we have | 0:23:44 | 0:23:49 | |
destroyed manufacture anything this country, it got push the abroad, I | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
suffered from that as Mulberry. We have had a crack at destroying | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
farming, we are not doing good on banking, there is a whole area of | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
what are we as a country. We have to seriously think about our | 0:23:59 | 0:24:03 | |
environment, the communities, farming is at the centre of rural | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
community. If that goes or turns into big sheds, you have got a very | 0:24:07 | 0:24:12 | |
different picture there. What is a tourist coming to see? Is it coming | 0:24:12 | 0:24:17 | |
to see a big shed of cows or cities? We are worrying about what | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
tourists see? If you think about what farmers do, they care for a | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
managed environment. They get paid for it? Not all farmers get paid | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
for it. If you also look at in fact the price we pay for food, these | 0:24:28 | 0:24:36 | |
days it is estimated that less than 11% of the household budget is | 0:24:36 | 0:24:41 | |
spent on food. We spend more on transport. 16% of household budgets | 0:24:41 | 0:24:46 | |
on transport. We spend more on food. If farmers can get people to pay | 0:24:46 | 0:24:51 | |
for more food, good luck to them? Supermarkets drive prices, my land | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
prices, I was pulling a dead lamb out of the bottom of a ewe, every | 0:24:55 | 0:25:00 | |
night I do that. That is my spare time job farming. It is a very, | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
very gruelling occupation. At the end of the day there isn't the | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
return for it. I will have to take a decision in the next two to three | 0:25:07 | 0:25:12 | |
months do I close down my flock completely, and say OK can we just | 0:25:12 | 0:25:18 | |
do beef and spelt or do we have to close beef as well. 30% less than a | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
year ago, it doesn't pay to produce them. You have pointed to part of | 0:25:21 | 0:25:28 | |
the solution, either go niche or, if you want to do commodity farming, | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
large-scale milk or cereal, you have to go big. No you don't. You | 0:25:31 | 0:25:36 | |
cannot go big. If you are looking at doing sustainable, keeping the | 0:25:36 | 0:25:41 | |
soil, you don't rip out Brazilian rainforests and put it in | 0:25:41 | 0:25:44 | |
agriculture and see it striped out because of big farming. The whole | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
idea of a sustainable environment is you look after your soil, every | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
element, from insecretary through to bird and animal and take a | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
responsibility for all of that. Nobody will take a responsibility | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
for those hedgerows and all of that part of the land that he can sis | 0:25:58 | 0:26:08 | |
0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | ||
otherwise, a farmer has to do -- a farmer has to do that as part of | 0:26:11 | 0:26:15 | |
the environment. They want satisfaction and a fair price and a | 0:26:15 | 0:26:19 | |
wage. People were passionate about digging coal? They were, but every | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
industry is going through an economic crisis at the moment. What | 0:26:21 | 0:26:27 | |
is different about farming is in fact you have the added problems of | 0:26:27 | 0:26:31 | |
the weather. Simply and briefly explain to me the lady in the film | 0:26:31 | 0:26:39 | |
talked about how it costs her 32p a pint to produce milk and she gets | 0:26:39 | 0:26:42 | |
paid 28p, what is happening there? The prices are the market. We have | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
to look at the market system to ensure farmers receive a fair price | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
for their product. That is a large, significant political debate that | 0:26:49 | 0:26:54 | |
needs to be had. She simply can't produce it cheaply enough, that the | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
problem? It is looking at the quality of the milk they produce. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
Maybe it is the other way round, the price of the milk isn't | 0:27:02 | 0:27:07 | |
expensive enough. In the 70s we spent 30% of our income. Have you | 0:27:07 | 0:27:11 | |
tried that argument in the shops, you are not paying enough for your | 0:27:11 | 0:27:16 | |
food? I would love to say I could. I think our Sharp and Park food | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
prices we haven't raised the price for four years, but the costs have | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
gone up. We are completely driven by the pricing of the market, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
driven by the big supermarkets, and they are driven by Government | 0:27:27 | 0:27:31 | |
policy, which is you have to offer good food price to the public. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
other thing if I may say, everybody who is listening to the programme | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
can do something about it, buying British is a crucial part of our | 0:27:37 | 0:27:44 | |
future. We return to the explosion in | 0:27:44 | 0:27:48 | |
Boston, two people have died and Boston Police have told Newsnight | 0:27:48 | 0:27:58 | |
0:27:58 | 0:28:09 | ||
that more than 20 people are With us is Bill Bratton, a former | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
Police Commissioner in Boston, as well as New York and Los Angeles. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:20 | |
Your reaction please? I'm here in London currently and I received a | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
phone call while I was at dinner earlier this evening about the | 0:28:24 | 0:28:28 | |
event in Boston. I was immediately very concerned because I have | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
friend and relatives running in that race, and many friends on the | 0:28:32 | 0:28:36 | |
Boston police department. So the initial reaction was one of shock | 0:28:36 | 0:28:40 | |
that it would have occurred in Boston on their very special day. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
This is from a patriotic standpoint, the day that celebrates the start | 0:28:45 | 0:28:50 | |
of the American revolution. It is the most significant event in | 0:28:50 | 0:28:55 | |
Boston each year. Personally and professionally I was both shocked | 0:28:55 | 0:29:00 | |
and concerned and over the last couple of hours have tried to learn | 0:29:00 | 0:29:04 | |
what I can about what occurred there. It does not appear that | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
anybody I know personally of injured in the event. Shocked, of | 0:29:09 | 0:29:14 | |
course, surprised that an outrage should take place in your country? | 0:29:14 | 0:29:18 | |
Certainly that we have been very fortunate since the events of 9/11 | 0:29:18 | 0:29:24 | |
to have prevented many attacks that have been attempted in the United | 0:29:24 | 0:29:29 | |
States. So this one coming on this particular day I think you are | 0:29:29 | 0:29:37 | |
always surprised when they do happen. We certainly tried to take | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
as many precautions in America as possible, like you do in the United | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
States, you have an event on Wednesday and your own marathon on | 0:29:44 | 0:29:48 | |
Sunday. That will increase concerns about security with the two | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
significant events in the neck week. We have an expression in America -- | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
in the next week. We have an expression in America in relation | 0:29:56 | 0:30:01 | |
to terrorism incident, it is not a matter of "if "requesting ", it is | 0:30:01 | 0:30:11 | |
0:30:11 | 0:30:13 | ||
a matter of "when" -- a matter of "if", it is a question of "when". | 0:30:13 | 0:30:20 | |
Have you any idea of the people who did this? There was an early report | 0:30:20 | 0:30:24 | |
of an explosion at the presidential like brow adjacent to Boston | 0:30:24 | 0:30:28 | |
harbour, that is reported to be an electrical fire, no relationship to | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
the events at the finish line of the Boston Marathon. I would point | 0:30:32 | 0:30:36 | |
out that the finish line of that race is the most highly-secured | 0:30:36 | 0:30:42 | |
portion of the 26-mile event. It is also within 25 yards of where the | 0:30:42 | 0:30:48 | |
media from around the world would be on a platform that goes across | 0:30:48 | 0:30:53 | |
the street at that location. If that bomb had gone off about an | 0:30:53 | 0:30:57 | |
hour, an hour-and-a-half earlier at the finish of the race when the | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
first runner came across, there would have been many more people at | 0:31:00 | 0:31:04 | |
the location of the bombings, there would have been a lot more media | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
attention, the media attention tends to fall off very quickly | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
after the first female and male runner come across the finish line. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:21 | |
0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | ||
The planning of those devices at that location quite obviously was | 0:31:24 | 0:31:29 | |
serious. It was appearing that they would want maximum worldwide | 0:31:29 | 0:31:34 | |
publicity. The event ironically seemed to be captured on not | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
professional cameras but on initially cameras of people there | 0:31:38 | 0:31:43 | |
as spectators. Thank you for joining us. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:47 | |
MPs are being asked tomorrow to make it illegal to discriminate | 0:31:47 | 0:31:53 | |
against someone because of a set of prejudices much it tells you that | 0:31:54 | 0:31:57 | |
they tell you it makes them inferior. Surely that is already | 0:31:57 | 0:32:03 | |
illegal, it is not, in the case of caste prejudice it is not. Gandhi | 0:32:03 | 0:32:07 | |
called the called untouchables the children of good. It is illegal to | 0:32:07 | 0:32:11 | |
discriminate against them in India, but not here, apparently. The | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
British Government, despite having ministers for equality, doesn't | 0:32:14 | 0:32:21 | |
seem to want to make it illegal. Our reporter has been rather | 0:32:22 | 0:32:31 | |
0:32:32 | 0:32:37 | ||
baffled. I came to this country more than 30 years ago from India, | 0:32:37 | 0:32:47 | |
0:32:47 | 0:32:48 | ||
thinking this is such a great country, open country. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:54 | |
This is my first-ever photo. This is me. He grew up in the Punjab. He | 0:32:54 | 0:33:03 | |
served in the Indian army for eight years. This is you. That is the one. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:08 | |
In 1976 he moved to Bedford and got a job as a manager in a well-known | 0:33:08 | 0:33:13 | |
public sector organisation, where he worked for 2525 years. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:20 | |
Everything was going fine until one person, one particular person moved | 0:33:20 | 0:33:25 | |
in to our office, he happened to belong to the upper caste, called | 0:33:26 | 0:33:31 | |
upper caste. As he came in he learned who I am and who is the | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
manager. I happened to be his manager. And he did not say nothing | 0:33:35 | 0:33:40 | |
directly to me, but he told the other people his fellow colleagues, | 0:33:40 | 0:33:45 | |
which are all my staff, he said to people that he is a higher caste, | 0:33:45 | 0:33:51 | |
I'm the untouchable, I'm the very, very low. If I was in India he said, | 0:33:51 | 0:33:56 | |
he's not my manager, so the word to people were telling me that I was | 0:33:56 | 0:34:01 | |
not his manager. That you are not that person's manager because you | 0:34:01 | 0:34:09 | |
are this, all the names you were telling from him. They were making | 0:34:09 | 0:34:14 | |
jokes about it they thought it was funny. I was shelled shocked and it | 0:34:14 | 0:34:18 | |
hit me like a bolt out of the blue. I did not know how to react to this, | 0:34:18 | 0:34:23 | |
I didn't know how to respond to it. But I tried to take it light- | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
heartedly. So to go along with the joke. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:31 | |
When he called you untouchable and that you, being an untouchable, | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
cannot be his manager, what hit you the most and the hardest? It is | 0:34:34 | 0:34:43 | |
happening in Britain, it is happening here. I never, never | 0:34:43 | 0:34:53 | |
expecting ...excuse me, which I... I'm sorry. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:57 | |
I never, ever expected this never, ever expected this. This was the | 0:34:57 | 0:35:07 | |
0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | ||
last thing coming into this country... Coming to this country | 0:35:09 | 0:35:15 | |
thousands of miles away that all this followed me into such a great | 0:35:15 | 0:35:22 | |
country. I worked with this individual for well over ten years. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:28 | |
And this behaviour continued all that time. Even if I complained to | 0:35:29 | 0:35:33 | |
my senior managers they wouldn't understood me. I never complained | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
to anybody that this person is calling me these names. He stayed | 0:35:37 | 0:35:43 | |
in his job until retirement. Now he campaigns against caste | 0:35:43 | 0:35:46 | |
discrimination. Although what he experienced happened over a decade | 0:35:46 | 0:35:54 | |
ago, caste prejudice continues today. In Britain it is estimated | 0:35:54 | 0:36:00 | |
there are half a million people who are dulits, those belonging to the | 0:36:00 | 0:36:04 | |
called lowest caste. A Government- commissioned report three years ago | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
found evidence that some face harassment and discrimination at | 0:36:08 | 0:36:13 | |
work, in schools and in the provision of care. Although the | 0:36:13 | 0:36:18 | |
caste system has its basis in Hinduism, it has spread to other | 0:36:18 | 0:36:23 | |
religions. Living in India, as I do, you | 0:36:23 | 0:36:28 | |
cannot help but notice the existence of the caste system. The | 0:36:28 | 0:36:31 | |
ancient social hierarchy that puts people in different categories by | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
birth. To this day those born in the called lower castes face | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
serious discrimination. The people who face the worst kind of | 0:36:39 | 0:36:45 | |
discrimination are the dulet, who were branded as "untouchables ", | 0:36:45 | 0:36:51 | |
for a long time now "untouchable" has been considered extremely | 0:36:51 | 0:36:54 | |
derrogatory term. The Indian Government has made this | 0:36:54 | 0:36:58 | |
discrimination illegal, but it doesn't mean it is stamped out. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:02 | |
Here in Britain there is no such law. I'm visiting one of the | 0:37:02 | 0:37:10 | |
temples attended by the dulet community in Bedford. This is our | 0:37:10 | 0:37:15 | |
main prayer room, we have the holy scriptures here. This is one of the | 0:37:15 | 0:37:20 | |
main paintings we have here. This man of born and brought up here, | 0:37:20 | 0:37:24 | |
he's an IT consultant for a multinational company. Later he | 0:37:24 | 0:37:31 | |
recounted what happened to him when three years ago an Indian colleague | 0:37:31 | 0:37:36 | |
questioned him about his religion at work. When I said I'm a valmiki, | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
she said I was one of the untouchables immediately. I was | 0:37:40 | 0:37:44 | |
shocked and surprised to hear that from her, someone from this day and | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
age, and in a professional environment, I didn't experience | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
anything like that before in my life. I was shocked to hear that. | 0:37:51 | 0:38:00 | |
She went on to say your good was a duku, which is a thief. I | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
questioned her comments and asked where she heard that, and she said | 0:38:04 | 0:38:09 | |
it was from the scriptures. I have a tattoo that is personal to me and | 0:38:09 | 0:38:15 | |
my family and she made a comment on that and said untouchables were | 0:38:15 | 0:38:21 | |
branded years ago with tattoo. That really got me. She was looking, our | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
team members are looking at me thinking he's getting angry and | 0:38:24 | 0:38:28 | |
what is happening with the two of them. I didn't take it own from | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
then, and we finished the coffee break and went into the meeting. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:36 | |
What made it worse is she started telling the non-Asians there that | 0:38:36 | 0:38:41 | |
it is about myself, saying he's one of the untouchables he's a lower | 0:38:41 | 0:38:45 | |
caste in my community. Making me feel small in front of other people | 0:38:45 | 0:38:49 | |
there. A couple of weeks went by and I told my manager I couldn't | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
work with this woman before, I said she upset me and made comments | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
about my community which I'm not happy about. I would like to get | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
moved off the project. My manager kind of understood where I was | 0:39:00 | 0:39:03 | |
coming from, he said there is nothing we have as company policy | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
or there is nothing in the law for this kind of situation. So there is | 0:39:06 | 0:39:10 | |
nothing much they could do. What they will do is look to move me on | 0:39:10 | 0:39:14 | |
to another project. As a company there was nothing they could do. It | 0:39:14 | 0:39:22 | |
was almost like bite my tongue and move on situation. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:27 | |
Jambe is campaigning to get the law changed. In the House of Lords | 0:39:27 | 0:39:31 | |
legislation has been proposed to make caste discrimination illegal. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:36 | |
We know in legislation on race that nothing has been more effective in | 0:39:36 | 0:39:42 | |
reducing racial prejudice than the law. It has had a most powerful | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
educative effect, and nothing could be more significant and effective | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
in reducing discrimination on the ground of caste than to have a | 0:39:49 | 0:39:54 | |
clear-cut law that discrimination in the public sphere would not be | 0:39:54 | 0:39:59 | |
tolerated. But the Government opposes legislation and favours he | 0:39:59 | 0:40:04 | |
had instead. There are other people who suffer prejudice in this | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
country because of things like their class, their background or | 0:40:07 | 0:40:12 | |
their place of birth, but we have no legislation on these matters, we | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
deal with them through other approach. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
We are clear that no-one should suffer prejudice because of caste, | 0:40:18 | 0:40:22 | |
as I have already said, such prejudice should not be condoned | 0:40:22 | 0:40:27 | |
and never be ignored. That is why I'm pleased that the Government has | 0:40:27 | 0:40:32 | |
announced that it is taking clear action to tackle caste prejudice | 0:40:32 | 0:40:38 | |
and discrimination through an educational initiative. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:46 | |
What strikes Mo about Britain is how multicultural it is. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:53 | |
Yet how strongly unacceptable cultural attitudes are challenged | 0:40:53 | 0:40:57 | |
here must be a difficult question for society. With the children and | 0:40:58 | 0:41:01 | |
grandchildren of immigrants growing up in this country it cannot be | 0:41:01 | 0:41:11 | |
0:41:11 | 0:41:12 | ||
ignored. My grandson came from school and he said that his friend | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
said to him that he was from the highest caste in the Sikhs. Where | 0:41:16 | 0:41:22 | |
did he pick that up from? It is always the older people are telling | 0:41:22 | 0:41:28 | |
younger people. How do you explain to a young ten-year-old about the | 0:41:28 | 0:41:33 | |
caste system, he has never seen the workings of the caste system, who | 0:41:33 | 0:41:40 | |
thinks he's equal to anybody who knows to school with him. Here to | 0:41:40 | 0:41:47 | |
discuss if legislation is the right approach are my guests from the | 0:41:47 | 0:41:52 | |
anti-caste discrimination alliance, and the President of the Hindu Form | 0:41:52 | 0:41:58 | |
yum. Precisely why shouldn't be it made illegal to treat someone as | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
that first chap in particular we saw was treated. That is really | 0:42:02 | 0:42:09 | |
horrible? You may say that but you know the Government once passed the | 0:42:09 | 0:42:13 | |
legislation back in 2010 and they carried out a research. And the | 0:42:13 | 0:42:19 | |
research acknowledges there is not sufficient evidence base there. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:21 | |
What we are proposing to the Government. What more evidence do | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
you want f it happened to one person that is one too many? If you | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
look at it the other way there are many, I think, you saw the debate | 0:42:29 | 0:42:33 | |
in the House of Lords, that there are other people who have been | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
discriminate, they have made a law there. The other thing is if the | 0:42:36 | 0:42:40 | |
Hindu community has never been consulted on this, they are the | 0:42:40 | 0:42:45 | |
community who will be affected. is either wrong or right? It may be, | 0:42:46 | 0:42:49 | |
but the Government in this democratic country should be having | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
a consultation with the community that will be affected. That | 0:42:52 | 0:42:57 | |
opportunity has never been given to us Hindus. Can you help us with why | 0:42:57 | 0:43:02 | |
that approach, you think, doesn't work? We have enough evidence | 0:43:02 | 0:43:09 | |
actually, the provision in the Eqality Act, the section 95A has | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
never been brought into force. Within the then Government | 0:43:12 | 0:43:16 | |
introduced it they said if evidence, independent evidence was to come to | 0:43:16 | 0:43:20 | |
light that they would think about legislationing there. What we have | 0:43:20 | 0:43:27 | |
had is a report by a very reputable research body, an independent | 0:43:27 | 0:43:30 | |
research body called the National Institute of Economic and Social | 0:43:30 | 0:43:35 | |
Research. And they reported in December 2010 that there is | 0:43:35 | 0:43:38 | |
evidence of caste-based discrimination in the areas that | 0:43:38 | 0:43:45 | |
are covered by the Eqality Act. We have the evidence. The argument is | 0:43:45 | 0:43:53 | |
about, saving your presence, there is evidence, you have adduced it, | 0:43:53 | 0:43:57 | |
it happens. Let's accept it happens, why not make it illegal? | 0:43:57 | 0:44:01 | |
Government when the legislation of passed in 2010, when we met the | 0:44:01 | 0:44:04 | |
minister concerned they accepted that the legislation is not the way | 0:44:04 | 0:44:12 | |
forward. There is education to be carried out in that. The Government | 0:44:12 | 0:44:16 | |
stated the legislation. You want MPs to vote against any proposal to | 0:44:16 | 0:44:23 | |
make it illegal? Not as simple as that. What we have said in our | 0:44:23 | 0:44:29 | |
proposals is let us sit together and have comprehensive research | 0:44:29 | 0:44:35 | |
done on this, then let's quantify what the evidence is before us. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:39 | |
are denying it again. You have just seen and heard the evidence and | 0:44:39 | 0:44:44 | |
more examples of it, you are still denying it? The Government needs to | 0:44:44 | 0:44:49 | |
report itself is inconclusive, you read the report, 135-pages. Do you | 0:44:49 | 0:44:53 | |
think people testifying in the film were making it up? You think.That | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
is a very serious accusation to make, I advise you to be very | 0:44:55 | 0:45:00 | |
careful about that? I'm not saying they are making it up, but we have | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
done our own research and Jeremy, we have got thousands, hundreds of | 0:45:04 | 0:45:08 | |
thousands of dulets on oured side, they have written to the Government | 0:45:08 | 0:45:14 | |
that we oppose caste legislation, because the caste legislation is a | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
dying disease. The British Hindus living here don't want to identify | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
it as a caste basis. That may well be true of the vast majority, if, | 0:45:22 | 0:45:26 | |
as I say, it happens even once it is not acceptable is it? Maybe to | 0:45:27 | 0:45:31 | |
you, but to the Hindus they are not willing to accept that. You think | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
it is acceptable? We need an education process which the | 0:45:34 | 0:45:38 | |
Government is working with us, and credit to the current Government, | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
we had a project going and we were about to launch the education | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
programme to eradicate any sort of discrimination. Who do you speak on | 0:45:45 | 0:45:55 | |
behalf of? I speak on behalf of the organisation, Alliance of Hindus. | 0:45:55 | 0:46:02 | |
Your view is widespread is it? is the Indian population. You speak | 0:46:02 | 0:46:07 | |
on behalf of hundreds of thousands people, and they really think there | 0:46:07 | 0:46:12 | |
is virtually no caste discrimination? I did not say that. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:17 | |
You just accused those gentlemen gentlemen we saw in the film of | 0:46:17 | 0:46:24 | |
making it up? I did not say. That let's get everything else together. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:32 | |
That was the view of a journalist. How common is this attitude? Well I | 0:46:32 | 0:46:36 | |
am really, really surprised that you are sitting here and saying the | 0:46:36 | 0:46:41 | |
caste system doesn't exist and this isn't a problem. This is an issue | 0:46:41 | 0:46:51 | |
0:46:51 | 0:46:52 | ||
and a serious issue. The evidence in the report talked about. This is | 0:46:52 | 0:46:59 | |
the NUSA report? Yes. They outlined case studies, they were asked to go | 0:46:59 | 0:47:03 | |
out and establish if there was caste race discrimination in the UK, | 0:47:03 | 0:47:08 | |
and they established just that. We do have that. What NUSA said | 0:47:08 | 0:47:12 | |
confirms what we found in our report as well. A year before. | 0:47:12 | 0:47:19 | |
Let's get to the kuornnel of this, that is the contention that by | 0:47:19 | 0:47:24 | |
making it illegal you don't stop it, but education might stop it? | 0:47:24 | 0:47:29 | |
Education alone will not work. You can have an education approach. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
That is just an assertion? Can you go into a work place with all the | 0:47:34 | 0:47:38 | |
guidance and a person comes in, just like the gentleman there | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
discriminated against in the work place, they can say, yes, I have | 0:47:42 | 0:47:47 | |
been discriminated on the basis of my caste. But what more can I do | 0:47:47 | 0:47:52 | |
actually beyond that? There is no legal framework. If I turned it | 0:47:52 | 0:47:56 | |
around and I were a white female in a work place and harassed by a male | 0:47:56 | 0:48:04 | |
colleague in that way, I could take that up as a gender equality issue. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:08 | |
We have gender equality issue within the Eqality Act. It is one | 0:48:08 | 0:48:13 | |
of the protected characteristics, we don't have that. You don't think | 0:48:13 | 0:48:19 | |
racial prejudice is a question of he hadcation, or gender prejudice | 0:48:20 | 0:48:24 | |
is a question for education. There was evidence that the racial | 0:48:24 | 0:48:27 | |
Eqality Act had to come in. This particular research is very flawed. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:32 | |
If you see the research acknowledges there was no hard | 0:48:32 | 0:48:36 | |
evidence of the extepblt of caste discrimination in the UK and | 0:48:36 | 0:48:44 | |
further research is needed to quantify the reality of it. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:48 | |
They are not denying it happens, just not the extent? They can't | 0:48:48 | 0:48:58 | |
0:48:58 | 0:49:00 | ||
quantify it. One thing we have to remember is Hindus coming from this | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
country have travelled from Mauritius, South Africa, and other | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
places. They left India two centuries a they can't remember the | 0:49:07 | 0:49:13 | |
caste system how can they practice. There may be pockets of Hindus who | 0:49:13 | 0:49:23 | |
come from India. It is such a minute scale it could divide the | 0:49:23 | 0:49:27 | |
community. Let's see how MPs vote. Before we go in the last few | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
minutes President Obama has given his reaction to the two explosions | 0:49:30 | 0:49:35 | |
in Boston that have killed two and injured more than 20. We still do | 0:49:35 | 0:49:41 | |
not know who did this or why. People shouldn't jump to | 0:49:41 | 0:49:45 | |
conclusions before we have the fact. Make no mistake we will get to the | 0:49:45 | 0:49:53 | |
bottom of this and find out who did this, and why they did this. Any | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
responsible individuals, any responsible groups will feel the | 0:49:55 | 0:50:04 | |
full weight of justice. Today is a holiday in Massachusetts, Patriots | 0:50:04 | 0:50:10 | |
Day, a day that celebrates the free and fiercely independent Sir it | 0:50:10 | 0:50:15 | |
this great city of Boston has reflected from the earliest days of | 0:50:15 | 0:50:21 | |
our nation. It draws people to the streets in a spirit of friend low | 0:50:21 | 0:50:28 | |
competition. Boston is tough and resilient -- friendly competition. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:33 | |
Boston is a you have to and resilient city. The American people | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
will be with Boston every single step of the way. | 0:50:35 | 0:50:45 | |
0:50:45 | 0:50:49 | ||
We are awe out of time now, more We are awe out of time now, more | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
tomorrow, until then good night. Good evening, strong winds over the | 0:50:51 | 0:50:55 | |
next 24 hours, we have got some heavy rain to the North West of | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
Scotland. Slowly Marching north through the afternoon. Staying | 0:50:59 | 0:51:02 | |
cloudy dull and damp to the south. But inbetween there will be a slice | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
of sunshine for the afternoon. A much dryer and brighter afternoon | 0:51:05 | 0:51:09 | |
for Northern Ireland, with highs of 13-1 degrees. Still some rain for | 0:51:09 | 0:51:13 | |
North West Scotland. Through the central lowlands although it is | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
cloudy rain patchy and light at this stage. Still breezy, gusty | 0:51:17 | 0:51:22 | |
winds to the east of the Pennine, along with the sunshine. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:25 | |
Temperature 14-15. Where we have got that thicker cloud further | 0:51:25 | 0:51:29 | |
south around 10-11 just about covers temperatures for the | 0:51:29 | 0:51:34 | |
afternoon. There is always the risk of patchy light rain and drizzle | 0:51:34 | 0:51:39 | |
sitting in the English Channel, Cornwall and Devon may see a little | 0:51:39 | 0:51:46 | |
brightness at times. Patchy cloud and sunny spells and temperatures | 0:51:46 | 0:51:49 | |
1-13. For Tuesday there will be sunshine around, it is to the north | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
and south of the country we have more cloud and rain. North western | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
areas will see thicker cloud arriving. To the south on Wednesday, | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
although there is cloud around, it will be a mild day with | 0:52:02 | 0:52:06 |