Browse content similar to 06/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, running from Syria's war, it's the journey that cost | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
desperate refugees their life savings and sometimes their lives. | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
Hoping for help in Europe we trace the extraordinary odyssey of the | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
thousands fleeing Syria first to turkey and from there a perilous | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
journey on the seas to Greece, where they receive the coldest of | :00:32. | :00:42. | |
:00:42. | :00:50. | ||
welcomes. Those that get there are Also tonight, a sales pitch from | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
Labour's leader. I have just been down the road at | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
Newham docks to watch Ed Miliband set out his stall on welfare reform. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
This is an issue of trust, will the British public buy it? | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
The Americans and Australians think they are a security risk. So who | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
decided to let a Chinese firm get involved in major UK telecoms | :01:09. | :01:16. | |
contracts. To our shock and horror we discovered that decision was | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
taken by cabinet officials who didn't even inform ministers, never | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
mind ask for their decision. When the story of one of the beautiful | :01:25. | :01:32. | |
game's oldest clubs collided with a thoroughly modern phenomenon of | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
payday lending. How did Bolton Wanderers come to find itself | :01:35. | :01:45. | |
:01:45. | :01:47. | ||
looking for an early get out from its latest sponsorship deal. | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
Good evening, the shockwaves of Syria's civil war are radiating | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
more and more widely. Today there was fighting on the go lan heights | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
close to Israel. In Lebanon among supporters of the two sides. | :02:01. | :02:08. | |
Millions have been uprooted and neighbours worry a tide of refugees | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
threatens their own stability. Some reach Europe and it is in Greece, | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
crisis-hit Greece with its tanked economy and rampant far right that | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
many Syrians literally wash up, if they don't die on the way. In a | :02:21. | :02:29. | |
special report for Newsnight we follow their journey. | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
The cease tape from Syria begins with refugees crossing the border, | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
here into Turkey. They are tired and angry. | :02:41. | :02:51. | |
:02:51. | :02:52. | ||
A fight breaks out among the men. A woman vents her frustration on us. | :02:52. | :02:59. | |
Why you take photo, two years you take photo, what are you doing? | :02:59. | :03:09. | |
:03:09. | :03:10. | ||
Nothing. The people are dying, nothing. The refugee camp here has | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
a desperate look of permanence. With no end to the conflict in | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
sight Syrians can be forgiven for wanting to rebuild their lives | :03:18. | :03:28. | |
:03:28. | :03:32. | ||
elsewhere. Today the camp is full. Those turned away set off on foot. | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
50,000 have settled in the nearest town they reach. But jobs there are | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
few. Those who can move on with their hopes pinned on the countries | :03:46. | :03:56. | |
:03:56. | :03:58. | ||
of the European Union. They go over 1,000 kilometres North West to | :03:58. | :04:07. | |
Istanbul. The ancient crossroads between east and west. The gateway | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
to Europe through Greece. But the Greeks are unwilling to give visas | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
or asylum to Syrian refugees who arrive at official border crossings. | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
It is here that the Syrian refugees must link up with the gangs of | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
people smugglers operating in the city. They then organise a journey | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
that will be expensive and will involve huge risk. | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
They are told to go to a district of the city where they can meet | :04:33. | :04:43. | |
:04:43. | :05:09. | ||
people they can do business with, He took them to Turkey's western | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
coast from where the border with Greece runs along the Aegean sea. | :05:13. | :05:23. | |
:05:23. | :05:27. | ||
It is just 12kms to the nearest Greek island, Lesvos. It is an easy | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
and pleasant ferry ride if you have money, a visa or a European | :05:32. | :05:41. | |
passport. Which is why no Syrians are travelling with me. The | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
smugglers insist they begin their journey from the Turkish coast in | :05:45. | :05:55. | |
small boats at night. Many don't make it. Just a few weeks ago this | :05:55. | :06:02. | |
man received a call from the coastguard at Lesvos to come and | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
collect the bodies and belongings of his brother's family. His | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
brother, sister-in-law and three children drowned. The body of the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
youngest child hasn't been recovered. It was while he was | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
searching for his family that he met survivors of boats that had | :06:21. | :06:31. | |
:06:31. | :06:54. | ||
Refugees support organisations are getting many reports of boats being | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
deliberate low pushed back from Greek into Turkish water. A charge | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
the Greek coastguard deny. But these pictures show refugees | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
behaving recklessly. They say the only way they can stop the | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
coastguard from pushing them back is to scuttle their boats and hope | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
they are rescued from the sea. Whatever is going on here hundreds | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
of drowned. -- hundreds have drowned. Here on the Aegean the | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
Greeks are supported by the pan- European border police, Frontex. | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
Forces from all over the European Union take turns to patrol the | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
borders of Greece, used by some 90% of illegal immigrants entering | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
Europe. I asked the Romanian crew whether they push boats carrying | :07:46. | :07:56. | |
:07:56. | :08:03. | ||
Turkey. He clearly didn't want to talk about it. Preferring instead | :08:03. | :08:10. | |
to tell me how, earlier, they had found a group of refugees who had | :08:10. | :08:19. | |
become stranded on an uninhabited island. They built a fire, we | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
approach and used a searchlight to find the number and their state. | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
One of the Syrian refugees who lit the fire that morning takes up the | :08:30. | :08:40. | |
:08:40. | :09:16. | ||
Eventually the Greek coastguard collected 40 refugees from the | :09:16. | :09:25. | |
island, 25 Afghans and 15 Syrians. They are pickeding up dozens every | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
day and as the summer goes on, with no end to the killing in Syria, | :09:29. | :09:38. | |
there will be many more. The Syrians are Christians who fled in | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
fear of rising Muslim extremism. Some still have family back home | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
and don't want to be identified. They have each paid 1500 euros to | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
the smugglers to get this far. They want to get to the countries of | :09:51. | :10:01. | |
:10:01. | :10:22. | ||
northern Europe and are bitter they The coastguard and police make no | :10:22. | :10:29. | |
effort to look after the new arrivals. Volunteers from the | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
island give them their first meal in 24 hours. Heavy rain is forecast | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
and most of the space in the one van provided is taken by families | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
with children. Those who have been soaked at sea now get a second | :10:45. | :10:55. | |
:10:55. | :10:57. | ||
Frenching. -- drenching. I go and ask the coastguard what is going on. | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
How long will you keep these people out here in the cold and rain. | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
must talk to the officer. Have you told them what distress these | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
people are in and it will get colder as the night progresses. | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
They are coming. Someone is coming to help. So they will take them | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
away for the night, yes? It is possible. They will go somewhere to | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
sleep. But no-one comes to collect them and they settle down on the | :11:24. | :11:32. | |
quay for an uncomfortable night. They are looked in just metres from | :11:32. | :11:42. | |
:11:42. | :11:43. | ||
the bright lights of Levv so, s. One of the most pop -- Levos. One | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
of the most popular islands in Greece. Refugees have been held for | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
weeks on the islands, scenes like these seen by tourists have brought | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
harsh criticism from the United Nations and the European Union. As | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
a result there have been some changes. Two days after arriving | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
the Afghans have to stay but the Syrians are now allowed on to the | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
ferry for an overnight crossing to the mainland. From where they go on | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
to Athens. But, for the majority who make it this far the road ends | :12:20. | :12:30. | |
:12:30. | :12:32. | ||
in the Greek capital. Where things can get worse. Golden Dawn, a party | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
with an anti-immigration agenda is the third most popular in Greece | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
today, with support among a people reduced by austerity measures. With | :12:41. | :12:49. | |
little sympathy for outsiders who need help. The party has been | :12:49. | :12:59. | |
:12:59. | :13:08. | ||
blamed for recent attacks on The family who fled north eastern | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
Syria spent 10,000 euros getting to Athens. They want to leave Greece | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
and they gave all the money they had left to a smuggler who buy fake | :13:17. | :13:27. | |
:13:27. | :13:45. | ||
passports to get them to Sweden to The family is now stranded in a | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
one-room apartment paid for by the Syrian community here. The older | :13:49. | :13:58. | |
boys don't dare leave it for fear of arrest. All those found entering | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
the country illegally are detained. This man nearly drowned on his | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
journey and was sitting in a cafe in Athens when he was picked up and | :14:09. | :14:19. | |
:14:19. | :14:37. | ||
He was held for weeks in prison and then transferred to a detention | :14:37. | :14:47. | |
:14:47. | :14:59. | ||
camp. Thousands much Syrians have been | :14:59. | :15:07. | |
arrested and detained in Greece over the last two years. Only two | :15:07. | :15:14. | |
Syrians out of hundreds who have applied have been given asylum. A | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
European Commission report recently said that the conditions endured by | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
Syrians in Greece are unacceptable. The Greek Government says they are | :15:21. | :15:31. | |
:15:31. | :16:07. | ||
A constant plea I heard from Syrians to the Greeks if you won't | :16:07. | :16:17. | |
:16:17. | :16:26. | ||
It is the misfortune for those Syrians who want to rebuild their | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
lives in the European Union and beyond that the first country they | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
stumble in to is Greece. And yet few other countries are offering | :16:33. | :16:43. | |
these people the opportunity either. Well, earlier on I spoke to Cecilia | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
Malmstrom, the EU Commissioner in charge of home affairs who recently | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
visited Athens to talk to the authorities about the refugee | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
problem there. I started by asking her whether she accepted that in | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
their economic and social crisis it is actually very hard for Greece. | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
It is very hard for Greece. Greece is having a tremendous problem on | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
their own. However they have the responsibility to give these people | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
shelter, to give them asylum or at least some temporary protection, | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
while we all see every day the atrocities going in to Syria. | :17:20. | :17:27. | |
you know how many people so far the Greek Government has given asylum | :17:27. | :17:34. | |
to? I think formal asylum very few have been given. Two.Two, yes. As | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
far as we know nobody has been sent back once they are in the Greek | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
territory. There should be some thousands of refugees from Syria, | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
that is a general problem in Greece that their asylum system has not | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
been functioning, they are gradually trying to build up a | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
system with assistance from the European, but it has been broken | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
for many, many years. If they are not sent back, but they are not | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
given asylum, effectively the future seems to promise then | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
thousands more Syrians held in a kind of detention in Greece? Yes. | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
Syrians and others are held in Greece in detention. This is | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
something we are very concerned about. I'm talking to the Greek | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
authorities about this because they have to be given alternatives to | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
detention. They have to build up some sort of open reception centres | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
where people can apply for asylum in appropriate ways, and not be | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
looked in or kept into these kind of detention centres, that is | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
against European law. Europe is helping Greece in the sense of | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
assisting them with border security measures, shouldn't they also help | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
in terms of providing asylum to those people to ease the situation | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
there? We are helping Greece a lot. We are helping them financially to | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
build up a capacity to receive people. We have experts on the | :18:53. | :18:59. | |
ground. We are helping to train police, staff, border guards, the | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
people who deal with asylum and so on. A sort of relocation mechanism | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
within the European Union is, for the moment, there is no political | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
support for that. As I say most of the Syrians, in total there has | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
been around 40,000 coming since the beginning of the conflict. Very few | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
compared to the millions who have fled Syria. Most of them are in | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
other countries than Greece. There is not a political will today for | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
other countries to alleviate and to take people from Greece, | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
unfortunately. Can I pick you up on the last point, the issue of | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
political will. Clearly in the 1990s in the wars in the former | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
Yugoslavia there was a different situation, wasn't there. Many | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
people were resettled across Europe, what has changed do you think? | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
that was a different situation. From that we have learned that | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
should there be a really, really big pressure in Europe from a | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
particular country, we are talking about hundreds of thousands coming, | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
there is the protection directive, that has never been used, | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
established after the war in Yugoslavia. It has never been used. | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
We are following the matter closely. 40,000 people to the whole of | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
Europe in the last two-and-a-half years not enough to activate the | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
protection mechanism. We are encouraging European countries to | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
give Syrians protection for the moment. You are saying 40,000 | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
doesn't qualify this as a crisis big enough to invoke the special EU | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
temporary protection measures. You could argue it is a manageable one | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
if the political will is there. What is lacking, do you think | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
Europe has changed since the period of the Balkan wars, has it become | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
more nationalistic and less tolerant? The situation in Europe | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
is very difficult with the economic crisis. There are strong | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
nationalist and populist movements all over the European Union. When | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
it comes to the Syrians you think everybody recognises the atrocities | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
there. No Syrians have been sent back. But those countries who | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
receive the most Syrians Germany and Sweden have not asked for help. | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
I think they are coping with it so far. There has been no real cause | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
to activate this temporary protection mechanism so far at | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
least. Thank you very much indeed. Now the | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
big development of the week on Syria's battlefield was the | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
recapture of the town of Qusair by Assad Government forces. It is a | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
fightal road hub that they couldn't afford to -- vital road hub that | :21:27. | :21:37. | |
:21:37. | :21:38. | ||
they couldn't afford it use. The most -- Hezbollah militia might | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
have tipped it in the Government's favour. Syria's opposition has | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
threatened to attack Hezbollah in Lebanon. Rockets have been fired in | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
their strongholds in Baalbek and Beirut, where tensions are high and | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
from where our very own reporter joins us. | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
Is this job done from Hezbollah's point of view, the victory in | :21:59. | :22:07. | |
Qusair? I think this is very difficult, really for Hezbollah. | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
one sense it helped to win a victory in Qusair. The reports now | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
that Hezbollah fighters are also moving now towards Aleppo that they | :22:17. | :22:25. | |
will contribute to a new offensive by Assad's forces in that area too. | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
But of course Hezbollah has been involved in the Syrian civil war | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
now for quite a long time. It wasn't fully open about it until | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
very recently, until the battle over Qusair really. Of course the | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
reason for that, I suppose, is Hezbollah here in Lebanon doesn't | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
define itself primarily as a Shi'ite organisation, even though | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
it is. It defines itself as the resistance against Israel. Its job | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
is to confront Israel, certainly not to fight fellow Muslims and | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
fellow Arabs. What Hezbollah says now is it is not defending | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
President Assad in Syria per se. What it says it is doing is | :23:03. | :23:12. | |
defending itself against the rise in Syria of extreme Sunni groups, | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
all qied da-type groups among the - - Al-Qaeda rebels, among the rebels, | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
who they say will target groups like Hezbollah in the same way that | :23:24. | :23:34. | |
:23:34. | :23:35. | ||
Sunni groups have targeted Shi'ite groups in Iraq. That won't wash in | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
the wider Lebanese public and I think certainly the prestige of | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
Hezbollah in the region is already beginning to fall. | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
The Syrian opposition says it is going to attack Hezbollah in | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
Lebanon. Is that an idle threat or do you think it has already | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
started? It certainly has already started. There have been a | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
considerable number of rocket attacks in eastern Lebanon in the | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
valley. Also an upsurge of fighting now for example in the northern | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
city of Tripoli. We have seen today masked Sunni gunmen taking over the | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
centre of the city, closing the shops there. Very much it seems in | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
anger over what Hezbollah has been doing in Qusair. | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
Thank you very much. With the next general election less than two | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
years away the opposition has begun its slow policy striptease. Ed | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
Balls earlier this week and today Labour Party leader, Ed Miliband, | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
have begun to reveal a little more of what they will be offering | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
voters. They are trying to convince people that they will be fiscally | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
responsible and ready for tough decisions on welfare. | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
But there are risks, not least that if they reveal too much others may | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
steal their policies. Too little and nobody will take any notice. | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
Here is our political editor to judge whether they have got the | :24:55. | :25:04. | |
balance right? If the political scene is a market | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
of ideas, Ed Miliband the trader is accused of not having as well | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
stocked a store as these chaps. He's supposed to peddle old not | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
fresh fruit. If he doesn't shift fiscal credibility his ideas on | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
welfare will be another idea on the shelf. This morning, two years out | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
from a general election the market of political ideas got a bit busier. | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
Down the road from this market in Newham, East London, Ed Miliband | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
unveiled new items. The biggest item of expenditure, alongside the | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
National Health Service is the social security budget. The next | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
Labour Government will have less money to spend. If we are going to | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
turn our economy round, protect our NHS and build a stronger country we | :25:52. | :25:59. | |
will have to be laser-focused on everything single pound we spend. | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
Social security spending, vital as it is cannot be exempt from that | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
discipline. So Ed Miliband would be trimming the welfare budget | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
afterall. And after quite some years of opposing the coalition's | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
welfare reforms. He would be doing it his way. He said that way would | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
be very different from the Prime Minister's way. I will tell you | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
there is a minority who don't work but should. He will tell you anyone | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
looking for work is a skiver. I will tell you that we need to | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
protect the dignity of work and make work pay. He will hit the low | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
paid in work. I will tell you we do need to get the housing benefit | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
bill down with a cap that works, but crucial low by investing in | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
homes and tackling private landlords. He will make the problem | :26:49. | :26:56. | |
worse by making people homeless and driving up the bill. Today he | :26:56. | :00:00. | |
announced a three-year cap on social security spending from 2015. | 3615285 | :00:09. | |
:00:10. | :00:10. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1614 seconds | :00:10. | :27:04. | |
He also said a Labour Government would amend jobseeker's allowance | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
to reflect tax paid when an individual has been in work. Labour | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
would also give councils powers to negotiate with landlords, new lower | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
rents. The money saved could be invested in house building. There | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
would be subsidies for employers in order to boost wages and reduce the | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
take up of tax credits. And also for parents of small children, if | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
they don't prepare for work there will be sanctions. | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
So there we have it. Against the backdrop of planes taking off Ed | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
Miliband launched his new tougher welfare agenda. The question I | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
wanted to ask was if his reforms don't work, will he cut to meet | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
that cap. He didn't answer that question at all today, and until he | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
does I think the credibility issue with Labour and welfare does still | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
remain. This is a problem for them, in the | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
most recent month this poll showed that David Cameron was trusted by | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
37% of people to manage the economy, that's compared with 23% for Ed | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
Miliband. To restore their fiscal credibility this week Labour | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
pledged to match the coalition's spending plans for 2015. It is very | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
difficult to get away from the fact that Labour is still going to have | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
to make some tough choices in 2015. So these long-term policies saying | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
we're structurally going to change the nature of the Welfare Bill, we | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
are going to bring down the cost of housing benefit and reduce the | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
amount we spend on tax credits. They are really important but never | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
going to add up to the savings that you need to find on welfare. | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
In the budget the Chancellor and now today Ed Miliband have said | :28:43. | :28:51. | |
they want to target something called the A ME budget, annually | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
managed expenditure. Over five years to 2012 this budget grew by | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
�46 billion. Two thirds of this included pensions and working-age | :28:59. | :29:05. | |
benefits, including housing been fit and tax credits. In total this | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
budget is �350 billion of spending. That's half of all Government | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
expenditure. It is so far been relatively protected. I think it is | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
very unclear what this means, we don't know whether working-age | :29:19. | :29:26. | |
benefits are going upwards when you trip out the effects of the | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
recession. Some of the changes this Government have made and the last | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
Labour Government have slowed it. It is not clear whether it is a | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
really as implied deep cuts or not at all. This week the Miliband idea | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
stall filled up. Interesting ideas that perhaps more people will | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
question than buy outright just now. But two years out from a general | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
election that is not a terrible trading position. Remember the | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
young leader of the opposition Margaret Thatcher didn't have many | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
items on show in the run up to the 1979 election, she should have been | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
an expert, she was the daughter of a grocer. | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
Tonight we heard that the Duke of Edinburgh had been admitted to | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
hospital earlier in the day. Buckingham Palace said it was not | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
an emergency admission, and the Duke would be having an exploratory | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
operation tomorrow. The BBC's royal correspondent is here. How serious | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
is this do you think? It is difficult to say. Exploratory | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
operation, that is the phrase being used by Buckingham Palace, an | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
exploratory operation which clearly has been called for by the doctors | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
after first routine tests and then what the palace describes as | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
investigations of the abdomen. I think it is unwise to speculate at | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
this stage. We are led to believe it is nothing to do with his heart, | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
he had a heart episode a few years ago or the bladder infection, there | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
were two episodes of that last year. It is an exploratory operation on a | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
man who in four days time will be 92 years old. Clearly that is quite | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
challenging. It must be said it was not an emergency admission. He went | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
in good spirits, he was at a Buckingham Palace garden party this | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
afternoon and people who saw him there said you wouldn't think | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
anything of wrong at all. He was cracking jokes and being his formal | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
self. There will be an operation under general anaesthetic as we | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
understand it, tomorrow. For the Queen now, more solo public duties? | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
Yes, coming to the BBC indeed tomorrow. She will be fulfiling | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
that engagment. A busy few week, Trooping the Colour on Saturday, | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
and she will be doing those on her own. It is a statement of the | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
obvious that it must be a rather anxious time for her. | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
In its desire to trade with China is the Government leaving Britain's | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
infrastructure more vulnerable to sieber attack? The parliamentary -- | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
cyber attack? The parliamentary intelligence and security | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
commission issued a sharply-worded report today of Britain's dealings | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
with a big Chinese telecommunications company. The | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
Americans and Australians regard the company as a security risk. But | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
the UK has allowed the company a big role in telecoms contracts, | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
where is risk? Here is our science editor. | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
It is the stark warning, telecommunications is the life | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
blood of a successful economy. But we have reached the point where the | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
need to protect our economic competitiveness is now so paramound | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
mount that even national security concerns could -- paramount that | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
even national security concerns could be compromised. Focusing so | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
heavily on trade ties with China we could overlook the other side of | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
the coin, the security risks in cyberspace. For MI6 cyber espionage | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
is a growing anxiety. In today's report the MPs recognise the | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
difficulty for Government in balancing that concern against its | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
strong desire for inward investment from countries such as China. | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
Today's report highlights the business relationship between | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
Chinese telecoms giant Waway and British companies like BT. Its | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
messages are primarily for Government. There is little doubt | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
that China as a country goes in for hacking in a big way. It made it | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
all the more important if you have a very major Chinese company, that | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
happens to be the second largest telecommunications company in the | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
world, that was a pretty useful test case to use. With 150,000 | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
employees and a turnover of around �20 billion, the company is a | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
global force. But it is the company's close relationship with | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
Beijing that unnerved some politicians. With multibillion | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
pound deals between the company and British Telecom over the past | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
decade, having been forged apparently without British | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
Government oversight. We looked at how the decision to allow a Chinese | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
company to become part of our critical national infrastructure | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
was taken. To our shock and horror we discovered it was taken by | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
cabinet officials who didn't even inform ministers never mind ask for | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
their decision. That was very, very bad indeed. That must never happen | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
again. There is no suggestion in the report that the company or BT | :34:24. | :34:34. | |
:34:34. | :34:43. | ||
have done anything wrong. Today Their official statement makes | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
clear the company sees its relationship with the UK as | :34:46. | :34:55. | |
:34:56. | :35:05. | ||
Today's report says GCHQ should be given oversight of a cyber security | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
centre in Oxfordshire set up and run by Huawei to allay fears over | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
openness. This testing centre, known as "the cell" allows clients | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
to check products before they buy. The staff who run it are employees | :35:22. | :35:30. | |
of Huawei. Some say GCHQ employees should run it instead. One former | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
security adviser said such deals recognise more than one big risks. | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
Testing components or systems gives you a snapshot in time. It tells | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
you how those components and system will operate in an artificial | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
environment. Once those systems or components are employed in practice, | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
in the real world, how they operate could change quite fundamentally. | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
In the US anxiety over Huawei and the proksimity to the Chinese | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
Government came to -- proksimity to the Chinese Government came to the | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
House last year. The White House was reported to have included that | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
there was no evidence that Huawei was spying on the US. Sloppy coding | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
may have created vunabilities that could be exploited by dub | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
vunerabilities that could be exploited by other parties. | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
switches and routers, their products have a good reputation. BT | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
and other companies have purchased those products. Over the last seven | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
years there was no major security incidents. The United States are | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
very concerned, possibly the UK parliament committee assumed that | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
they needed to send a signal to Washington, see, we are also doing | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
something about this problem. Government here attempted to move | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
the emphasis away from cyber security fears. George Osborne | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
stressed his personal priority remained increasing trade links | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
with China. So with me now are a former | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
Scotland Yard cyber security detective and now security | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
consultant and the author of When China Rules The World. Are the MPs | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
worried? Are they right to be worried about this? They are right | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
to be concerned. The decisions that were made ten years ago in the when | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
the contract was awarded. The report says there was no | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
information available or mechanisms to look at it with the rigour that | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
could be done now. It is right and proper and healthy that things are | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
revisited, when they impact on critical infrastructure and | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
national security. It is important, we mustn't represent the Huawei | :37:38. | :37:45. | |
option as being an either/or choice. Their products are ubiquitous, and | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
there is only one other company that could provide the whole set of | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
infrastructure which is Ericson. It is not as if the ministers or | :37:54. | :38:01. | |
Government have been provided with a choice of either/or? The company | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
obviously is a quite legitimate company, nothing has been proven | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
against them. What is the theoretical risk, what is it that | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
people are concerned about in terms of the actual modalities about how | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
this might weaken the UK's national infrastructure? Specifically in | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
terms of communication. The communication element of critical | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
national infrastructure is vulnerable to denial of service. | :38:27. | :38:34. | |
And also espionage and eaves dropping. Also in the report itself | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
published by the UK Intelligence Committee. GCHQ reporting to | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
parliament said there are over one million lines of code in the | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
platform and software used by way way. Vulnerability is a function of | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
complexity. It is very difficult for anybody to go through that and | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
say with any degree of certain toe that there are no vunabilities in | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
there whether intention or inadvertant. | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
Does this worry you or is it a case of Chino-phobia? There is such a | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
thing and we are seeing a lot of it at the moment. If you recall two or | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
three years ago do you remember all the issues of China manipulating | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
its currency. Where did that go, we hardly hear that at all. This is | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
the latest fashion, particularly strong in America. I'm not saying | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
there isn't a problem. But I think it is, you know, greatly | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
exaggerated. I must say I very much agree with the position taken by | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
the Chancellor, which is the priority for Britain is to focus on | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
much better trade relations with choin that. It is going to be so | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
important -- China. It is going to be so important. The risk worth | :39:52. | :40:02. | |
:40:02. | :40:02. | ||
taking that something might be amiss here? Go into it with eyes | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
open and take measures that should be taken. That shouldn't be an | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
excuse not to have a relationship with Huawei, it is extreme low | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
important and successful company. As was said it makes now extremely | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
good equipment at very affordable prices. Its not just us that are | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
interested in it. You know they are supplying many countries around the | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
world now with this kind of stuff. To what extent do you think both of | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
you that cyber security is something where everybody wants to | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
play the victim, but nobody really wants to admit the extent to which | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
they themselves are exploiting some of these technologies? Beautifully | :40:41. | :40:51. | |
put. I mean this is a world of hypocrisy. I must say I'm sure the | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
country that's most involved in cyber espionage is the United | :40:55. | :41:05. | |
States. You know all the mood music we hear of course is American, | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
particularly American criticism of China. But you know you can bet | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
literally your bottom dollar that America is doing a hell of a lot of | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
it to China. You know if you read between the lines or not sometimes | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
between the lines there is an omission of this by the Americans. | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
If everybody is at it, presumably part of that is trying to ensure | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
your own protective security. What are our options, you mentioned that | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
possibly Ericson are the only possible alternative providers. Is | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
it the case that China with telecoms infrastructure is in a | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
very dominant position. You get to the chip level and so many things | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
embedded in the hardware. It is very difficult to take a route | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
where there would be no involvement whatsoever. It is interesting in | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
terms of the advance threat perspective of this and what has | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
happened with the cyber. There is a lot of difficult chatter at the | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
moment that is not always as well informed as it could be. The | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
situations analogyies to what happened with the research for | :42:10. | :42:16. | |
spliting the at tomorrow and after the test bombs were -- atom and | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
after the test bombs were tested and it was clear the atom had been | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
split. Over the years people have figured out how to do it. With the | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
other threats it is clear there is a whole range of attack sectors | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
against IT systems that weren't common knowledge. | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
Thank you very much. Is there anything slightly unclean | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
about the payday loan industry? That is the impression you might | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
have got from Bolton Wanderers football fans. When a company | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
called Quick Quid, they don't beat about the bush, offered the club a | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
lucrative sponsorship deal there were howls of protests. Bolton's | :43:02. | :43:12. | |
business managers were forced into a re-think. | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
It is 1929, Bolton is bursting with pride. Bolton warders had just won | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
the FA Cup Final for the third time that decade. There were many more | :43:22. | :43:29. | |
glory days to come. The club may now be in the second tier. This is | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
still a town full of pride for its team and protective of its | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
reputation. It is one of the reasons why so many people here | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
signed a petition to stop the sponsorship deal with Quick Quid. | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
One of the people to sign it was Phil. I think it is out of order, | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
people who work hard for their money, these people are sort of, | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
you borrow �100 and basically they don't tell you the interest rates, | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
I think the interest rates are extortionate. If Bolton Wanderers | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
have this company sponsoring their team I think to be honest what sort | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
of message does it give to children. Bolton Wanderers Football Club | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
pride itself on its links with the community. When 5,000 people signed | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
a petition calling on them to cancel the deal with Quick Quid | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
felt they had no choice but to drop them as a sponsor. They admit they | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
underestimated the strength of feeling here in Bolton. | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
Take a walk down Bolton high street and you can see how the easy credit | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
industry dominates the town. It is a similar story in many of the | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
poorest parts of Britain. The annual turnover of payday loans has | :44:39. | :44:49. | |
:44:49. | :44:50. | ||
gone up from �220 million in 2010 to �860 million in 2012. The annual | :44:50. | :44:59. | |
turnover of payday loans from �220 million in 2010, to �860 in 2012. | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
There was as many as eight million payday loans in 2012, and 7 2,000 | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
companies are licensed to lend. Nearly 25,000 people have asked the | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
Citizens Advice Bureau for help with a payday loan. One of those | :45:12. | :45:20. | |
people is Andrew Masters, he borrowed �100 from a payday lender | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
a year ago, now he owes �1,000 and the company is threatening him with | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
the bailiffs. Surely you must have known you would have to pay a lot | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
in interest? It was easy to get. You go to the banks and things and | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
they turn you down. But that it was just easy, wasn't it. You know what | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
I mean. Why did you need the money so badly? My girlfriend was | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
pregnant. On our wages we couldn't afford it to buy stuff we needed | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
for the baby. Councillor Chris Peacock organised the petition. For | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
him this isn't just about politics. He's been supporting Bolton | :45:57. | :46:05. | |
Wanderers all his life. As a kid I glue up with Bolton being sponsored | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
by Reebok, it was over a decade they sponsored them with a close | :46:08. | :46:15. | |
link to the town. I only ever wanted Reebok product its and | :46:15. | :46:23. | |
trainers and tracksuits, everything had to be Reebok. I'm not saying | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
kids are going out to want a payday loan, but it is that connection | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
with the community and the sponsor and the communities reacting it. | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
For me it was too uncomfortable. The credit industry says | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
campaigners are ill-informed about how payday lending works. | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
worries people that people are making a judgment based on a low | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
level of damage. Making commercial decisions and in some cases moral | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
and political decisions about the short-term lending market. There | :46:55. | :47:01. | |
are standards in place, people like the product. It is legal. It is | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
heavily regulated. It is simply that people have a natural | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
inclination to oppose something and we are the flavour of the month. | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
Campaigners say it shouldn't be left to the public to put the | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
pressure on the industry. They want the Office of Fair Trading to act | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
and the Government to do more to regulate the credit market. | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
That's all we have time for. Time for a lie down, from all of us here | :47:27. | :47:37. | |
:47:37. | :47:42. | ||
good night. 25 degrees today, good night. 25 degrees today, | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
similar temperatures tomorrow. Not the same low cloud like this | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
morning. Higher-bayed cloud in the south could give one or two showers. | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
The odd one over mountains, in the north many places with a dry day | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
and a lot of sunshine. Lovely day for Northern Ireland, dry with | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
sunnier skies towards the north. These showers over the Scottish | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
mountains, very few and far between. Another warm day for the time of | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
year. For the western side of Scotland. The odd shower over the | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
northern Pennines, but sunny spells across much of northern England and | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
the Midlands. Cloud coming into the south more thaned today. A stronger | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
breeze by the afternoon as well spots of rain in the south-east. | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
Lively in the afternoon in Cornwall. One or two thundery downpours | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
possible. Very hit and miss. Wales should stay dry so temperatures | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
typically around 22 degrees or so, could be locally 25. Always cooler | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
around those North Sea coasts. That is heading into the weekend then. | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
No major surprises, we will see a little bit more cloud around some | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
eastern parts of England and Scotland but most places bright, | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
warm and sunny. Temperatures over the weekend not as high as we are | :48:51. | :48:54. |