Browse content similar to 30/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Conservative Party is on the side of hard working people, there is a | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
surprise, eh? Just in case anyone was confused, the Chancellor today | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
promised to get tougher on the jobless. For the first time all | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
long-term unemployed people, who are capable of work, will be | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
required to do something in return for their benefits and to help them | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
find work. The Boris Johnson fan club has turned out in force, he | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
granted us an audience. I don't know how much a pint of milk costs,. | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
Don't you think you should be concerned? How much is a loaf of | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
bread? I'm not standing for election, you are. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
And Matthew D'Ancona tells the inside story of how the coalition | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
began and its growing pains. George Osborne talk Duncan Smith wasn't up | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
to the job and insufficient for cutting the fiscal deficit. Duncan | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
Smith thought George Osborne was power mad. Also tonight can anyone | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
account for why the US Government is about to shut up shop? I think | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
it is time I explain to these good people, the upcoming fiscal cliff. | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
Well I will try to tell you any way, why the US Government may well be | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
about to shut down. The writer who humanised the | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
turmoil in China with Wild Swans, Jung Chang on her latest work, the | :01:30. | :01:44. | |
forbidding Empress Dowager. Good evening from the Conservative | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
Party Conference in Manchester. The sun has started to rise above the | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
hill was the way the Chancellor of the Exchequer put it today, no word | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
on whether he had his hat on, but it was definitely not yet time for | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
"hip, hip hurray", it is clear, why take a chance when things start to | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
get better will be a key part of the Conservative pitch at the next | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
election. There were policy announcements too about work for | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
welfare, for example, to tickle the announcements too about work for | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
toes of the diminishing number of party members. The key question the | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
party has to resolve is how to appeal beyond that unusual group. | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
Ed Miliband thinks he can ror ral some of them with promises on | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
energy, UKIP is trying to run others off. What should the party's | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
offer with. Our political editor reports. All very blue in the Tory | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
Conference hall this morning, but would it stay true blue over the | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
next few days. There were pressures on the Conservative leadership | :02:43. | :02:50. | |
today. A redder Ed tugging one way, and a purplish Nigel in the other. | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
Tory MPs had different demands of their party today. They wanted the | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Tory MPs had different demands of Chancellor to show he understood | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
the threat of Ed Miliband's price freeze, it may sound left-wing but | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
it is incredibly centrist. They also wanted to show they understood | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
the Nigel Farage threat. Throughout the day the party leadership | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
insisted they wouldn't be pulled in different directions by those two | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
men. But events today suggested they were. First up, the Chancellor, | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
would he take Ed Miliband seriously or mock him? What do you think? Any | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
politician would love to tell you that they can wave a magic wand and | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
freeze your Energy Bill, perhaps with all this talk of blackouts we | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
have been a bit unfair on Ed Miliband's leadership. We used to | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
think lights on, but nobody's home, turns out we're only half right! | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
George Osborne launched a new economic target, believing | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
credibility in the economy still a problem for the Labour Party. And | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
that they won't match him. I can tell you today that when we have | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
dealt with Labour's deficit we will have a surplus in good times as | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
insurance against difficult times ahead. As the Tory leader looked on, | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
there was action on the cost of living, a fuel duty freeze, not as | :04:06. | :04:16. | |
an ambitious as Ed Miliband power freeze, but there was the Tory | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
possibility of tax cuts. Yes, if the recovery ised sustained then | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
families will start to feel -- recovery is sustained, then | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
families will start to feel better off. What matters is low mortgage | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
rates, jobs and low taxes. George Osborne has to attract swing voters | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
from Ed Miliband, but he also has UKIP to contend with, denying | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
Tories victory in other seats. It is some force. This was UKIP leader, | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
Nigel Farage's arrival at conference today. We are not just a | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
sub-set, a rump of the Tory euro- sceptics, we are a genuine force in | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
British politics and we're not going to go away. Farrage had this | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
morning suggested Tories and UKIP candidates could strike back at the | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
local level, to unite the right- wing vote. One MP appeared tempted | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
by the UKIP colours. Why are you wearing a purple tie? Why are you | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
wearing a red jumper? I like it? I like it. I'm a Conservative | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
candidate, and always will be, if another party wants to endorse me, | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
that is fine. George Osborne today ruled this out, but UKIP's leader | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
remained defiant. There is room at local level for co-operations with | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
Jacob Rees-Mogg or Peter Bone. He just left the hall saying he | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
wouldn't countenance for it, he wants you to support his ticket as | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
a Conservative? They just show how desperately out of date they are. | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
They can't recognise that British politics is changing, there is a | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
new player out there. It isn't just wanting out of the European Union, | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
but different domestic policy. If Nigel Farage seemed tetchy, senior | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
Tories are also tetchy, they thought today, Monday, would be the | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
day they demonstrated they can walk and chew gum at the same time. Come | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
day they demonstrated they can walk up with policies that appeal as | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
much to their right-leaning, UKIP flank, as the centrist voters. But | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
because of Nigel Farage's hoopla, his attendance at many fringe | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
events, which are continuing even now, that was all overshadowed. | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
Margaret Thatcher wouldn't have given up on UKIPers, and nor has | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
this Tory leadership, they announced this conference as tough | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
love on welfare and Europe that she announced this conference as tough | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
would like and UKIP supporters would also like. Just as her appeal | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
was on the centre ground of would also like. Just as her appeal | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
politics, the Tory high-ups hope these policies appeal to swing | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
voters too. So Tories eye up the centre ground. This research, | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
admittedly from a while ago analysed people who voted Tory in | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
2010 but gone to Labour since. Of those a quarter say they will not | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
definitely vote Labour, Conservatives think they can get | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
them back. This evening these queues were not | :07:00. | :07:09. | |
for red Ed, nor Purple Nigel, but Blonde Boris. They must deal with | :07:09. | :07:17. | |
his popularity, and Nigel's sceptic, they have to look to their left, | :07:17. | :07:25. | |
right and behind them. A little earlier I popped a couple of | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
hundred yards over to the conference hotel to speak to the | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
Mayor of London, Boris Johnson. The other day you said that the sight | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
of the Syria vote had made you think about going back into | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
parliament? Yeah, but this is like, it was perfectly true. I thought it | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
was a great parliamentary occasion. I thought actually the Prime | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
Minister did brilliantly in setting out his case and the leader of the | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
opposition did rather less well. But it is perfectly true that I, | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
what I said, for the first time in five years I experienced a spasam | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
of nostalgia. Just as on a beautiful autumn day, with a blue | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
sky and the going soft underfoot I sometimes wish I was playing rugby. | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
But that doesn't mean that I'm going to take up rugby again does | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
it, I might do. You said you would think about the Prime Ministership | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
if the ball came loose from the scrum, are you still bound in the | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
scrum? Shall I tell you where the ball is now? Do, and tell us what | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
position you are playing too? I'm somewhere in the front forwards and | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
...Is It a set piece scrum or what? What it is, it is a set piece scrum | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
and we're going, we're driving for the line and the ball is at our | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
feet, and the enemy is wheeling or trying desperately, pathetically, | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
breaking the rules of the game to wheeling all over the place, we are | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
going for a pushover try. Everybody in the Conservative Party I think | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
now can see that we have less than two years to an election. I think | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
seriously they can see that there is a risk, you know. That people | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
who steered the ship of the economy on to the rocks will get back in | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
charge. I think that would be a real pity. I speak as someone who | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
is watching things really...You Think there is a real danger of it. | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
You could lose the next election? You look at the polls and you look | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
at the electoral mountain we have to climb and the Liberal Democrats' | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
refusal to be democratic or indeed liberal and do the right thing and | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
review the boundaries. That was completely wrong. The Tories have, | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
it is grossly unjust the current electoral system. It will be | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
difficult. But I think it is changing. I think the most | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
remarkable political event of the last, or series of event in the | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
last year or so has been the slow crumbling of the leader of the | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
opposition as a viable replacement for David Cameron. I think | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
genuinely, when I look at the options on the table for 2015 and | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
you have got David Cameron, who I think fulfils the job brilliant low, | :10:29. | :10:37. | |
or handing -- brilliantly, or handing the job back to Ed Miliband | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
who was on the bridge of the ship when it hit the rocks in the most | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
cataclysmic shipwreck of the last few years it is obvious. They have | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
cataclysmic shipwreck of the last divineed that people are really | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
feeling the pinch in terms of the cost of living? That is absolutely | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
right. That is where the argument will turn. We Tories should be | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
content to fight on that issue. You are the man who want to reduce the | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
top rate of tax to 40p in the pound don't you? I'm also the man who cut | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
council tax year after year in London. Which helps every household. | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
Do you even know the cost of a pint of milk? About 80p or something | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
like that. It is about 40p or something? One of those biggish | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
ones. This is a classic Boris, changing the milk. I said a pint of | :11:30. | :11:36. | |
milk. There you go, I don't know how much a pint of milk costs, so | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
what? Don't you think you should if you are concerned about the cost of | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
living? How much is a loaf of bread? I'm not standing for | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
election! You are! Why don't you know how much a loaf of bread is. I | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
-- I do but I'm not getting suckered into answering your | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
question, that is your usual trick isn't it? No! The point is you just | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
seem to be aligned on the wrong side? No, that is wrong. If you | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
look at what the Conservatives are advocating it is, I think, much, | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
much more sensible than the completely delusional policy that | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
Ed Miliband came up with last week, which was a fool's gold. He said to | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
people we can cut your bills and your costs but they know that those | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
things will inevitably go up again. They also know, I think this is the | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
crucial thing, that it will simply suppress the ability of the energy | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
companies to make the investments that we need. That is an argument, | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
by the way, that we won in London. I had exactly those sorts of | :12:49. | :12:59. | |
disputes with my Labour predecessor, Ken Livingston, who said we can cut | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
X and Y costs and cut fares I think he said 7% or something like that. | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
And actually all that would have done is take billions out of our | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
ability to invest in transport and we would then have to put the fares | :13:12. | :13:19. | |
up any way to cope with the inevitable repairs. It was a false | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
perspective. I think we can win. On that ground. You raised the subject | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
of public spending, if you had £6hun million to spend, would you | :13:29. | :13:37. | |
£600 million to spend, would you spend it on giving a tax break to | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
married couple? Is it costing that? I think this is one of those | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
questions where the Prime Minister made a firm commitment before the | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
last election, he said he was going to do it, he has done it, and I | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
greatly admire him for sticking to his promise. The answer to your | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
question is no I wouldn't? You know perfectly well it is not, I'm not | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
the Prime Minister. It is not my, it is not my, I'm not running these | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
things. You wouldn't have done it? It is not my policy that I | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
campaigned on. But what I admire in David Cameron is that this is | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
something, this is something that he promised the people of this | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
country and he has done it. If you were an MP of course you would have | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
to support the Prime Minister? Wouldn't you? If we had some ham we | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs, I'm not an MP, I'm the Mayor | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
of London. I didn't prom mull gate this policy that you mention. You | :14:37. | :14:49. | |
personally don't believe in it? It is not my number one policy. I | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
didn't say number one, but I wondered if you had the money to | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
didn't say number one, but I spend would you spend it on giving | :14:54. | :15:07. | |
the feckless husband rather than the loyal and honest cohabity? The | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
Prime Minister said he would do it, the loyal and honest cohabity? The | :15:09. | :15:16. | |
he has done it, give him the credit. What happens after the Mayor of | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
London? That is in about three years time, that is a long time. | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
And as I have said before, you know, it might be that I wanted to have a | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
career in writing romantic fiction, for instance. Under the...It Is | :15:34. | :15:44. | |
possible, I suppose. Under RosieM Banks. In Matthew D'Ancona's book, | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
In The Together, he quotes a conversation between you and David | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
Cameron, you say to Cameron, this is your last election, you want to | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
go and earn some money? If someone said that, and pointed that out to | :15:57. | :16:05. | |
me earlier this evening, Matthew is a brilliant journalist and writer. | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
me earlier this evening, Matthew is I don't remember saying that. It is | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
conceivable, but I don't remember saying that. David Cameron replies | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
apparently "That's bollocks"! Is it. The whole story? The idea that what | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
you want to do when you leave the mayorality of London is to go and | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
make some money. You have just said, in case you weren't paying | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
attention that I was one thing I in case you weren't paying | :16:34. | :16:47. | |
had thought of doing perhaps in a vain and unrealistic way was | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
romantic fiction, glossy novels with embossed covers with pictures | :16:52. | :17:00. | |
of orchids. Perhaps adopting a pseudonym, so your hand might waver | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
over it. You won't make a fortune out of that? Try something else | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
then. Something will crop up. You have definitely ruled out the idea | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
of any return to parliament? I have got a very heavy and demanding job | :17:13. | :17:21. | |
to do. For two-and-a-half years? I'm doing it to the best of my | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
argument, I think we are achieving a great deal in London. I'm | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
determined...Could You be mayor and MP at the same time? I'm determined | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
to fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
and get my job done. We have got a huge housing crisis in London, I | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
have to win all sorts of arguments, as you know, with the Treasury | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
about funding for London, about improving transport in London. | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
These are vital, vital things for the future of the greatest city on | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
earth. I think that to most of our viewers, Jeremy, those faithful few | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
who have not turned off in disgust, I think for most of our viewers | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
that is what they think I should be concentrating on. Concentrating on, | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
yes, but can you be an MP and Mayor of London at the same time? I think | :18:12. | :18:19. | |
John Wilks was, he's not possibly the best. Interesting role model | :18:19. | :18:31. | |
though? Well. I think I have to do the job to the best of my argument. | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
So it is very interesting, you have danced around the subject but not | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
ruled it out? What haven't I ruled out, being an MP and being Mayor of | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
ruled it out? What haven't I ruled London at the same time. I want to | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
get on with my job being Mayor London at the same time. I want to | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
London. I don't think you have ruled it out? I have ruled it out. | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
Why don't you say, no I couldn't, I couldn't do both? I did do both by | :18:56. | :19:04. | |
the way for a while. As did is it Ken Livingston? But, you know, this | :19:04. | :19:16. | |
is now a super-mass at thiscated subject. Masticate a bit more, spit | :19:16. | :19:24. | |
it out. I want to get on with my job of running the city. Just | :19:24. | :19:35. | |
before the election George Osborne made a speech in this conference | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
hall where he repeated the phrase "we're all in this together", who | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
are you kidding. But we discovered after the vote how pressent he had | :19:44. | :19:51. | |
been. If they wanted a stab at it, they had to be in it with somebody | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
else. The Liberal Democrats were the natural group to say if they | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
weren't natural bet fellows is an understatement. Matthew D'Ancona, | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
for his first broadcast interview, has written a book about a strange | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
forced marriage. This book being about politics, this report | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
contains strong language and flash photography. A doomsday message in | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
public. Behind the scenes a different story. On election night, | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
Nicholas Boles, a near parliamentary candidate, but in | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
practice a key player, sent a highly confidential memo to George | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
Osborne, David Cameron and others arguing strongly for coalition. | :20:33. | :20:46. | |
Cameron, his hand forced by the electorate duly delivered. The dawn | :20:46. | :20:55. | |
of a new politics, how often have we heard that before? Relatively | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
speaking the formation of the cabinet was easy. Boris Johnson, I | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
gathered, considered it a triumph of the public school system, a | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
system of which he was a product, as was David Cameron, George | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
Osborne, not to mention new boy Nick Clegg. | :21:09. | :21:17. | |
After the drama of the coalition negotiations, Clegg's strategic | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
task was to turn the Lib Dems from a party of protest into a party of | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
Government. This wouldn't be easy. First there was the ignominy of the | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
U-turn on tuition fees. You First there was the ignominy of the | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
completely sold out your principles and you have lied to your voters, | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
how could you do that? And then the catastrophic defeat in the | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
referendum on the alternative vote. Looking back on those months Clegg | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
confideed in private that he wasn't really leading. Clegg had watched | :21:42. | :21:51. | |
as his Tory counterparts had swung behind the no campaign with | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
devastating consequences for him. It was the end of innocence. In the | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
words of one senior Downing Street official, "Nick realised what we're | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
like, what Tories are capable of." As another Cameron ally put it to | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
me, "the rose garden had been well and truly napalmed". The joists of | :22:09. | :22:19. | |
coalition freakly groaned and -- frequently frowned and creeked. But | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Clegg always felt that he was the fall guy, the person who took the | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
blame for the disagreements. As he told one | :22:27. | :22:35. | |
In all the rows with Cameron over Europe, welfare and Lords reform, | :22:35. | :22:42. | |
the backdrop was always the Lib Dems' terror of electoral | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
destruction. When he withdrew support for the boundary review, a | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
review that might well have delivered the Conservatives victory | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
in the 2015 election, Clegg was quite clear. | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
"This is an existential threat sorry, you should have thought of | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
this before the AV Reverend come". The message to Cameron was an | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
abject terror that Nick Clegg couldn't admit in public. He often | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
said to his friends that he thought he would be gone in three months. | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
Today Clegg it still standing, but the experience of the coalition has | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
been one of the perils as well as the possibilities of Government. | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
Under the canvas of the coalition's the possibilities of Government. | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
big tent there was room for plenty of punch-ups, few as bitter as the | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
feud over welfare between George Osborne and Iain Duncan Smith the | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
Work and Pensions Secretary. George Osborne thought Iain Duncan Smith | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
wasn't up for the job and inferior to business of cutting the deficit. | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
Iain Duncan Smith thought George Osborne was power mad, and enjoyed | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
Lording it over a former Conservative leader. As one | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
familiar with IDS's sensitivities put to me, imagine waking up one | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
morning and finding out Anta Dec are running the -- Ant and Dec are | :23:58. | :24:05. | |
running the country?! The Conservatives' first conference in | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
power for 14 years ought to have been a jab worry, but it was marred | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
by Iain Duncan Smith's fury when George Osborne announced that child | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
tax-payers would lose. I thought we were a team, if we are going to do | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
this, we have to work as a team. The Prime Minister promised to talk | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
to George, George Osborne thought that IDS lacked the IC. You see Ian | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
giving presentation and realise he's not clever enough. And was too | :24:34. | :24:41. | |
squeamish for austerity? He opposed every cut. Iain Duncan Smith | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
resisted George Osborne's efforts to get him reshuffled. The contempt | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
between the two men hardened into one of the coalition's structural | :24:49. | :24:56. | |
problems. Committees proliferated under the coalition, informal | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
negotiation and personal chemistry became more important if anything. | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
I was repeatedly told that there were only three people who could | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
change David Cameron's mind, George Osborne, Andy Coulson, his Director | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
of Communications and Steve Hilton, his maverick senior adviser, now on | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
sabbatical in California. There is only so much that can be said about | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
Andy Coulson, who left his post in January 2011 and now faces charges | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
over alleged phone hacking when he was editor of the News of the World. | :25:24. | :25:33. | |
Coulson offered to resign in July 2009 when new and more serious | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
allegations started to appear in the papers. But Cameron hung on to | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
his comms magician for another year-and-a-half, with politically | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
disastrous consequences. Hilton was the PM's other addiction, brilliant, | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
and unpredictable. His cfrgs were extraordinary. In May 2012 he | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
screamed at the head of the home Civil Service over what Hilton had | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
said about Civil Service cuts. He was reproached on more than one | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
occasion by Chief of Staff, Edward Llewellyn. Look you have to watch | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
it, we don't want that sort of reputation. What did Cameron want, | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
he backed enough Hilton, but not reputation. What did Cameron want, | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
Hilton felt to truly transform the country. Before departing on | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
sabbatical in California, he toyed with the idea of becoming Boris | :26:25. | :26:32. | |
Johnson's Deputy Mayor, a provocation too far, both men | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
decided. It is a curiosity of the coalition that no account of its | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
inner life is complete without mentioning a figure who operated | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
entirely outside its borders as Mayor of London. When Cameron | :26:44. | :26:52. | |
stopped where Tory MPs fell, Boris rose, on he positioned himself as | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
more euro-sceptic and pro-growth. Re-elected as London mayor in 2012, | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
he turned the Olympic games into the greatest leadership campaign | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
launch in history. Hoovering up credit as he put to one friend. His | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
ambition to be Prime Minister was increasingly overt. To one friend | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
he announced his intention to drive a T-54 into Number Ten. On the | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
night of his second victory over Ken Livingston, Boris had said to | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
Cameron. This is my last election, Dave, I want to go and earn some | :27:22. | :27:29. | |
money. Cameron replied simply and accurately. That is bollocks! A | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
Boris speech or seemingly off the cuff remark would illicit a sharp | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
response from Cameron, an e-mail, or sharp Texas he told friends. | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
Dave was pretty bloody direct. According to one aide Boris would | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
end up apologising. Mate, sorry, I messed up. The relationship between | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
the two men remains the coalition's most fascinating story. In | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
Manchester, as ever, it is one of the main talking points, is Boris | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
the Tory Messiah or has he peaked too soon. Creeking, groaning, | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
splutering, the coalition still stands, it has weathered economic | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
hardship, war overseas, an NHS cry and much else. The romance of the | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
rose garden has gone. What remains is a new form of governing, flawed | :28:17. | :28:25. | |
but surprisingly robust. When Nick Clegg gets down, his wife Miriam | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
tells him, the only way to get back at them is to show them coalition | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
can work. To that extent at least, he and his colleagues seem to have | :28:34. | :28:44. | |
proved their point. Matthew D'Ancona is here to chew over the | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
turbulent history and future of the coalition, and with him are the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
journalists Rachel Sylveter and Iain Martin. George Osborne says he | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
doesn't think that Iain Duncan Smith is stupid, David Cameron says | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
he doesn't regret the gay marriage idea. The Cameron family are | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
furious about the suggestion that they don't like the Downing Street | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
cat. How much of this is true?. It is all true. I have to say whilst I | :29:09. | :29:15. | |
cat. How much of this is true?. It wouldn't accuse anyone of having | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
their pants on fire, there is a lot of smoldering going on. There is a | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
pattern here, when a journalist writes a book like this, which you | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
observed in the Diana and new Labour case, there is lots of | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
revelations and a pattern of denial. The memoirs come out and we realise | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
it was even worse than the original reports. I think all of those | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
stories are 100% true. How different would Government have | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
been if it hadn't been a coalition Government since the last election? | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
My point in the book is that coalition is a completely new form | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
of Government in the form that they are practising it. I think minority | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
Government would have just been a form of coalition forming every day. | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
It would have been untenable. So what you see here is a flawed riven, | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
conflict -splattered form of Government, but none the less, | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
something that has endured. Those are the two themes. This is a | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
Government that is both a disaster and huge triumph. How close to | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
collapse did it ever come? I think one of the things I say in the book | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
is that the conflict over the Lords last year was quoted to me by one | :30:23. | :30:30. | |
Number Ten aide as being our Cuba crisis. The point about that was | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
they lost touch with each other. Coalitions only work if each side | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
is very, very frank. At that point they weren't. Rachel Sylveter, the | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
feeling within the party about they weren't. Rachel Sylveter, the | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
coalition now? Which party? Within the Conservative Party? There is | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
this kind of mismatch, I think, between what the people at the top | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
feel and what both the tribes think. On both the Conservative side and | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
the Lib Dem side the activists and quite a lot of the MPs don't like | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
it. Particularly for the Tories. These MPs might have expected to be | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
ministers if there wasn't a coalition. But at the top, | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
particularly among the Conservative moderniser there is almost a | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
feeling that coalition is better than single-party Government. I | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
remember having a dinner with a cabinet minister, a year after the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
coalition of formed, and publicly everything was absolutely falling | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
out over the AV referendum and this minister said to me, you know even | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
if we have a majority at the next election we should think about | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
going into coalition and inviting the Lib Dems into cabinet. I know | :31:28. | :31:35. | |
you have been busy with the book about Fred Goodwin and the banking | :31:35. | :31:41. | |
crisis you are close to a lot of the party, what is your sense of | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
feeling about the coalition with the Lib Dems? I can see why the | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
coalition is popular with those inside it and they are enjoying | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
power and wielding power. They are in politics to be in power. But | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
ultimately it has been calamitous for the Conservative Party. The | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
membership has halved under David Cameron's leadership and the | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
politics of coalition it has forced Cameron into positions which are | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
directly linked and related to that, to people leaving and going to UKIP. | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
It is forced hip, and tied his hands on Europe specifically, it | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
has forced him into the politics of gay marriage, and the Conservative | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
Party is now heading for having around 100,000 members. Its | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
activist base has been hollowed out, it has been a marvellous wheeze for | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
those running it but not for the party. Supposing there is any | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
similar result after the next election, there will be another | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
coalition, is there an appetite for it? At the apex there is, testify | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
infinitely, I think Cameron and Clegg have talked about it, I think | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
that Clegg, who is by no means representative of his whole party | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
would definitely favour a coalition with the Tories over one with Ed | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
Miliband. Whether it is possible is another question, to do it this | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
time Cameron would have to get, and he says this in the book, he would | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
have to get the permission of his party. I think Ian reflects a good | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
point, I'm not sure that they would go for it. On the other hand, how | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
else is he going to get, if he doesn't get a majority to the | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
position wants to be, which is to have a referendum on Europe, | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
continue with fiscal reform and so on. What is your sense about this? | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
I don't think they will allow him to have another coalition. I think, | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
he has been lead, we forget how long he has been leader of the Tory | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
Party. He has been leader this autumn for eight years. And at | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
eight years he still hasn't won his first general election, if he falls | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
short again I think he will be in quite serious trouble. I don't | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
think they will give him the license that they gave him in the | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
hours and days immediately after the last election. What's your | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
sense of another coalition? I think it has to be quite likely. I think | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
the last few years have changed the way in which all the parties have | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
had to think about coalition, hung parliaments, everyone before the | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
last election said it would be a total disaster. Matthew was saying | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
he thought it was more likely than a coalition between Clegg and Ed | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
Miliband, do you agree with that? It completely depends on the | :34:07. | :34:16. | |
numbers. I think there would be an issue whether the Labour Party | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
would agree to go into coalition with Clegg. I don't think they want | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
to. I suspect that the Labour Party has learned the lesson from | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
Cameron's experience with the Conservative Party and I think they | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
are determined to avoid a coalition, if possible. Certainly with Clegg. | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
Or even with someone he will. The Lib Dem is banging on about how it | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
has changed the nature of politics in Britain. Do you three get a | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
sense it has changed the nature of politics? I think it has, actually. | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
If you compare to a minority administration, compared to the way | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
John Major had to govern for those years, towards the end it was utter | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
chaos. Compared even to the Tony Blair and Gordon Brown falling outs | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
during new Labour. The coalition has been relatively stable, it has | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
worked, I would say. Politics is also becoming more plural. The | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
coalition is the product of a new politics, not the engine. You are | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
getting a situation where the two main parties are no longer as | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
dominant as they were. That is a statistical fact, you are getting | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
new parties like UKIP being taken seriously, added to that you have a | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
situation where people who are completely outside parliament, like | :35:21. | :35:22. | |
situation where people who are Boris Johnson, are very important | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
to the political landscapement we are talking about Boris Johnson, | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
he's not an MP. But politics are not the same as it was in the | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
Thatcher era. That is the really important learning from this | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
conference is, as much as it has been dominated by her speck tr it, | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
we are not in 19 -- specter. We are not in 1987. Jo I think this is not | :35:42. | :35:51. | |
with Thatcher but Reagan. The core mistake modernisers made ten, eight | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
years ago, they didn't behave like Reagan, and do what John Howard did, | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
Stephen Harper has done in Australia. In those countries where | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
the centre right wins, you begin by looking in your core support. And | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
then building out into floating voter land. The modernisers started | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
by essentially declaring war on their own base. They are reaping | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
what they sow here. UKIP are polling 10%, they won't get that in | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
what they sow here. UKIP are a general election, but if they get | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
6%, they only got 3% last year, that is two million votes. Carnage | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
for the Tories. All parties are a coalition, you can have the Tories | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
or Lib Dems or the modernisers or the traditionalists, a lot of | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
modernisers would prefer coalition with the Lib Dems. Those members | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
and activists that have left the Conservative Party, people are not | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
stupid. They have left because they realise they are not liked and the | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
leadership despises them. The trouble is if you tack too far to | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
get the UKIP people back you lose more people in the centre. Thank | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
you very much indeed. Back to Gavin in London. | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
Two animals are famous for jumping off cliffs, lemmings and the | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
gathering swine of the Bible. Tonight we have a third possible | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
contender, the United States Government. Admit night American | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
time the inability of Republicans in Congress to come to an agreement | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
with Democrats or the Obama administration may lead to the US | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
Government closing down. They are on the brink of the called fiscal | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
cliff. Our diplomatic editor is on the brink of the called fiscal | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
here with the details. How on earth did they get to this point? You | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
know how it is, Congress holds the purse strings. There is a situation | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
where you have a democratic majority in the Senate, the Upper | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
House, and the Republicans control The House I Live In of | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
representatives. They have managed to push it down the ood -- House of | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
Representatives, they have managed to push it down the road a few | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
times. The issue of healthcare reform is a totem, they want to | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
take it, and the Democrats don't want to let them. We are a few | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
hours away from crisis coming to fruition. The fiscal cliff and | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
earlier this evening President Obama weighed in. It does not have | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
to happen. All of this is entirely preventable if the House chooses to | :38:18. | :38:29. | |
do what the Senate has already done. That is the simple fact of funding | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
our Government and not making demands in the process. If it | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
happens at midnight American time, what are the consequences? Much of | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
federal Government, for the first time in 17 years will shut down. If | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
you are planning a holiday, don't count on being able to visit y | :38:48. | :38:57. | |
cemetery park, or the parks agencies will completely such down. | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
The post will keep going, the Armed Forces will stay on operations, but | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
not being paid for the time being. Throughout federal Government as a | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
whole, if you look across federal Government, the number of people | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
who will stop working from midnight, if this goes ahead is several | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
hundred thousand. There will still be some in key agencies carrying on, | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
but many of them not being paid at all. When you actually put the | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
economic effect of that into the current picture, that will have an | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
equivalent effect to cutting the US GDP by 0.15% per week. The lack of | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
that money going into the economy. The slowdown in federal activity, | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
it will have that effect. Week on week, if that continued, then it | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
would get to a more serious crisis, empty pockets, default, the US | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
would be unable to honour its bonds. That is the really serious thing | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
which if they were to push it that far could come further down the | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
road. Most people think the Republicans in the House will not | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
let it go that far. They would fear the political damage as much as | :40:05. | :40:14. | |
anyone else. We're joined now from Capitol Hill. Is it going to happen. | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
Are they going to push themselves off the fiscal cliff? I think it is, | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
there is only six hours to go now, and the House are meeting, they | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
will have a vote later on, on what the Senate has sent them back. They | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
have made it quite clear they still want the Republicans in the House, | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
they still want a link between funding the Government and doing | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
some sort of damage to Obamacare. The President has been | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
extraordinarily clear, he spoke within the last hour and he and the | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
Democrats are playing hard ball about this. For the reason that | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
Mark just set out. If they actually tampered with the debt limit. If | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
the Republicans tried to link that to other causes it would be very | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
dangerous indeed. They want to fight now on less dangerous ground. | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
It does look like it is heading for a shutdown. Jung Chang is best | :41:07. | :41:17. | |
known for Wild Swans, the story of three generations of women in her | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
family, and putting a human face on China. | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
Now in her latest book she has turned to a woman who had the most | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
formidable reputation, but perhaps more than any one individual helped | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
pull 19th century China towards the modern age. I spoke to Jung Chang | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
before we came on air. I'm curious, first of all, as to what it was | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
that attracted you to the subject of the Empress Dowager. She's | :41:43. | :41:51. | |
usually portrayed as some kind of monster? Monsters can be very good | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
subjects, Mao was a monster but good subject. He was my previous | :41:55. | :42:04. | |
subject. I first got interested in the Empress Dowager when | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
researching Wild Swans more than 20 years ago. She was the person who | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
banned the foot binding, crushing and binding women's feet to make | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
them tiny. My grandmother had bound feet, she lived in pain the rest of | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
her life. I was astonished that the Empress Dowager banned it. Then | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
when I was researching the biography of Mao, I was astonished | :42:30. | :42:37. | |
again how, by how many opportunities and freedom Mao had | :42:37. | :42:45. | |
in his youth and childhood under the Empress Dowager. He was a | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
peasant lad, but he could get scholarships and go abroad if he | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
wanted to. He could write for newspapers whatever he wanted to | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
write. He could travel around the country with girlfriends and | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
checking into hotels. All these freedom, I couldn't dream of when I | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
was growing up under Mao. One of the reasons we love looking at | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
historical biographers is what it also tell us about today and we see | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
continuity or differences between her and Mao and Mao growing up when | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
she ruled, effectively ruled China. What do you think of today's elites | :43:22. | :43:30. | |
and whether they are, they are obviously different people coming | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
from a different class. But do they seem super-rich and out-of-touch | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
perhaps with the lives of ordinary people in the way that people at | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
the top were in the days of the Empress Dowager? I think they were | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
not out-of-touch in the Empress Dowager's time, nor are they out- | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
of-touch with today's China. It is a matter of choice. People often | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
compare, people in China, right at the moment comparing the Chinese | :44:01. | :44:08. | |
regime today with the Empress Dowager's later years. I mean they | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
have many things in common. The door of China has been opened for | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
decades and there was considerable economic advance and prosperity. | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
And now people have political aspirations. So what do you do? Do | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
you go on and pursue political reforms, which is what the Empress | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
Dowager chose to do. Her last project was to turn China into a | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
constitutional monarchy with an elected parliament, with the | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
freedom of the press, the rule of law and the so on. And she rejected | :44:44. | :44:51. | |
the root of winding the clock -- the route of winding the clock back. | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
I wondered whether you feel, because you are not published in | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
China, you are not going to get this book published in China, are | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
you. Is that a real sadness for you about the failure to reform so that | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
your books, which are accepted around the world, could be accepted | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
where you are from? It is very sad. Of course I want very much to see | :45:13. | :45:20. | |
my books published in China. And this book I hope will be a slight | :45:20. | :45:27. | |
test to see whether the regime would be moving towards being more | :45:27. | :45:35. | |
entightn't. -- enlightened. But I'm translating the book into Chinese | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
at the moment. It will be published in Hong Kong and Taiwan. And copies | :45:38. | :45:45. | |
will go into China. Because Chinese tourists are going to Hong Kong and | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
Taiwan, they buy banned books is what they do. Many copies actually | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
of my books have gone into China. And given as present to other | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
people as well? Absolutely. On that happy note, Jung Chang, thank you | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
for coming in. That's all for tonight. Jeremy is | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
still in Manchester tomorrow, when the American video producer, Marina | :46:05. | :46:14. | |
Schiffein decided to complain about her working conditions, her manager | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
didn't take much in the. She created a hit YouTube video for him. | :46:19. | :46:28. | |
An interpretive dance set to Kanye West's song. | :46:28. | :46:29. |