Browse content similar to 02/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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We are saying that in the circumstances, with the prospect of | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
the economic recovery we are seeing with jobs being created, in a time | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
when the economy is relatively flat, but nonetheless, 1.3 or 1.4 million | :08:03. | :08:10. | |
jobs are being created in the private sector, we ought to be | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
saying it is all right not to provide the opportunity and the | :08:14. | :08:22. | |
necessary action... How much is it going to cost? It depends on the | :08:22. | :08:30. | |
months between the earning and e-learning. A rough estimate? I will | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
not give you a rough estimate. Do you know? This is the exact thing | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
you do. We do not know the exact balance between those who will get | :08:42. | :08:50. | |
jobs and move from people on benefit who owners who pay taxes, which is a | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
net gain. We do not know how many of these will need additional training | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
opportunities. That is the work that now has to be done. What we are | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
doing is setting out a direction... Does this apply to single parents? | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
All of the details will be worked out. Work is already under way and | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
this has to be done properly. You do not know whether it will apply to | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
single parents? We are not going to be bounced into announcing every | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
single detail... Be Prime Minister... He set out a direction. | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
If you are 16-year-olds living with abusive parents or alcoholic parents | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
or whatever it is, in those circumstances, even if you were not | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
in education, employment or training, you would have your | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
benefits cut, correct? We will have to... So this is another detail you | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
benefits cut, correct? We will have have not fought through? We are | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
saying when people do not have a family home they can properly live | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
in, there will need to be provision made for them. Do you think you | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
should have worked out some of these details before the Prime Minister | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
announced the policy? That is absurd. That is where so many | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
projects go wrong and have gone wrong in the past, that you actually | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
try to announce all of the detail at the outset. So here is the | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
direction, he is the strategic approach, which I think most people | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
watching this will say it is right to provide this sort of support to | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
young people, and then we will work through in great detail and | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
announced as that detail emerges. That is the right way to do this. | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
Can I ask you about the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband? Use it on this | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
subcommittee of the Privy Council that will be considering the | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
question of press regulation. Has this spat made it easier or more | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
difficult for you to reach a conclusion? I do not know whether it | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
has made any difference to how you work through what is a really | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
complicated issue, and there lots of difficulties around it, which we | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
will resolve into course. I would just say, though, that as someone | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
who like Ed Miliband, I had a father who was in the public eye, and I | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
think it is quite unattractive to seek to ascribe to the children what | :11:26. | :11:36. | |
the father has stood for. I think that is very unattractive and | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
especially when that person is dead and cannot reply for themselves. But | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
actually, I think it probably will have done the Daily Mail some | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
damage, because it does look very unattractive and I think a lot of | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
people will be pretty revolted by that approach. You do not think it | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
should be somehow stopped? I do not think everything that is | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
unattractive should be made illegal, no. That is almost it for the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
conference season. Let's not forget the Scottish Nationalists party and | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
Plaid Cymru. So how are the speeches and policy changes in the political | :12:12. | :12:23. | |
weather? We are joined by our guests for their verdict on the | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
conferences. David Cameron 's speech today, what did you think? I thought | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
it was an attempt by David Cameron Tobais himself firmly in his party. | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
He has had trouble over much of the Parliament since the formation of | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
the coalition, the leakage of supporters to UKIP, and I think the | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
message was very Thatcherite in many respects. It was back to the 1980s | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
in terms of the emphasis on wealth creation and job creation. There was | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
also a moral assault on Labour, attacking Labour for its failure to | :12:57. | :12:58. | |
also a moral assault on Labour, bring debts under control, that | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
youth and implement rose steadily under Labour, and so it was this | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
combination of a traditional pouring message on jobs and prosperity... | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
Most elections, we, of course, want something new every time to would in | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
our newspapers and on your programmes, but most people out | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
there want the focus on the bread-and-butter issues like deficit | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
reduction and job creation. That is where the prime minister is. Why are | :13:21. | :13:28. | |
you frowning? It was spectacular that he spoke for 49 minutes without | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
saying anything whatsoever. It was predictable stuff. It was the | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
speech... It was not particularly bad. It had some terrible jokes. It | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
had very few memorable phrases. I thought the improbability of history | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
was very good. The jokes were appalling. The one about the mini | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
factory was very ineffective and it did not tell us anything new. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
Cameron made the ludicrous and unforgivable decision as a graduate | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
to put his education to use by becoming a PR and this seemed to me | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
the speech of a very effective PR rather than APM. What you think? It | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
was defiantly dull and I think that was probably deliberate. It was as a | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
piece of the whole conference. The Tories wanted to be seen as the | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
grown-ups and they might not even but you can trust them with the | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
money. That seems to be... Has it been a dull conference season? It | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
has been really dull. If you look at the beginning of the party | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
conference season, particularly before the Syria vote, Ed Miliband | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
had had a terrible summer. Actually he had a very good party conference. | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
He's the one who has made the weather. He has. The cost of | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
living, not cuts. There is a lot of focus on the cuts. It is the price | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
of the electricity and gas bill etc, that is what worries people. What Ed | :14:52. | :14:59. | |
Miliband poses as the solution to energy prices is crazy and will | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
unravel that a lot of people have heard him talk about issues they | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
care about. Ed Miliband is trying to frame the question is, this is about | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
the cost of living. Do you feel better off than you did several | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
years ago? The Tories are trying to say, the job is not finished yet. So | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
Ed Miliband was quite effective in changing the question from has | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
Ed Miliband was quite effective in planned a plan B worked to argue | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
feeling better? And most people would still say no. What about the | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
proposal today that Cameron made about not giving benefits to young | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
people not in education or training. How will that do with the public? I | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
think his speech was managerial because he knows he cannot do the | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
common touch. This new policy is really difficult for him because | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
people will immediately go back to the, it is all right for you. The | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
sort of bracing and self starting and again I'm a as the party message | :15:56. | :16:04. | |
-- again as the party message, but we do know that that those lives are | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
chaotic and difficult and not at all like those of the Camerons. They | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
need a lot of support. We have had a lot of apprentices at the Evening | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
Standard newspaper and they need back-up. If you just give them the | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
money they will not eat. That is true but it is also true that if we | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
do not really sent a message to society, to young people, that the | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
most important way to ever get out of poverty is to work... They need | :16:32. | :16:42. | |
help. Absolutely. It is correct that the detail is not worked out but he | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
was correct to say that as a principle this is something that | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
will be quite popular. Of course it will be popular. The public really | :16:49. | :16:56. | |
want to people -- people to go hard at welfare. No thinking has gone | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
into this whatsoever. I agree with you completely, Tim, you have to | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
make work attractive. The way to do you completely, Tim, you have to | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
that is first to create the jobs, which the Government has had some | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
success doing, 1.4 million jobs in the private sector, and there other | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
ways to make jobs attractive. You could create a living wage which | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
would not necessarily cost the governor anything, and you can take | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
people out of... Job-seeker's allowance for the under 25 stock | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
market it pleases the public, you really can see that? Of course. Does | :17:33. | :17:41. | |
any of you have an idea of anything Nick Clegg has said this autumn? He | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
has said trust me, not beans. And he has said he wants to lead Ott I | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
think he had a decent conference. He cemented his position as leader. | :17:51. | :18:02. | |
That is not a small thing. I would have thought that Nick Clegg's | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
leadership would have been in more trouble than it is now. He killed | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
off Vince in that conference. He has a simple message for the next | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
election. If you vote Liberal Democrat it will humanise the | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
Conservatives and make the Labour Party a bit more responsible. They | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
are well dug into the seats they hold, but it is still likely we can | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
have a hung Parliament a game next time and Nick Clegg will hold the | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
balance of power. And also that you do believe that the coalition will | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
probably continue to function up to the election. That was another | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
message from this week. At what point do they all peel off? It did | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
feel very disciplined, and I think whatever the unseen hand that is | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
maybe even Boris Johnson, to start behaving like a team player, it is | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
interesting. You felt that there was no one out of line. And UKIP was | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
another element that I think if I heard anyone else say, they are fine | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
as a comedy act but if you vote for them you will get Miliband, they are | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
just hammering that message and it may be starting to get through. Now, | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
if you were imagining the most awful parent in the world to have you | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
might well conclude that having the man who -- the ramp who ran | :19:24. | :19:38. | |
Auschwitz would be the worst man. man who -- the ramp who ran | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
Our reporter tracked down his daughter. She is 80 and in the | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
twilight of her lives feels a responsibility to tell her story. | :19:46. | :19:54. | |
My great uncle, Hans Alexander, was a German Juhu fled to -- was a | :19:54. | :20:01. | |
German Jew who fled to England to escape Nazi persecution. At the end | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
of the Second World War, he captured the man responsible for creating the | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
most infamous extermination camp and supervising the death of over 1 | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
million Jews and others. While researching my book, great uncle, I | :20:17. | :20:24. | |
interviewed his daughter. She lives in a small house in Virginia just | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
outside Washington, DC. The condition of my interview with | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
Bridget was that we did not disclose her identity, for feel of reprise | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
all is to the family. I loved it. It was like paradise. There were | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
prisoners working in the house and begotten, correct? Yes. We did not | :20:46. | :20:58. | |
know they were prisoners. They were always happy and wanting to play | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
with us. From the age of seven to 11, Bridget lived with her parents | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
and four siblings in a villa right next to the Auschwitz camp. Bridget | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
went on boat rides with her father, had picnics with her mother and | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
played in the sand, while prisoners in striped Jonathan worked behind. | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
It was a normal childhood, only a few metres from misery and torment. | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
But you did not know who they were all what happened in the camp? We | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
did not know what else was there. My father never talked about things | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
like this and there was no smoke, there was no smell of something. And | :21:40. | :21:58. | |
what was he like, your father? He said my liebenkinder, did you | :21:58. | :22:07. | |
have a nice day? Sometimes he was not very happy, but I mean, he was | :22:07. | :22:17. | |
nice, but I could see things maybe bothered him also. But because I am | :22:17. | :22:24. | |
sure he wanted to get away, but if you are in something you are in. | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
By 1944, the commandant and his team were murdering up to 2,000 people | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
each hour in the gas Chambers. Trains were arriving frequently, | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
carrying Jew, gypsies and homosexuals from across Europe. | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
After being arrested, Hoess was transferred to Nuremberg where the | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
Americans put him on the witness stand. | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
You said to he he was the nicest father in the world, nicest man in | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
the world. Yes. How is it possible he is the nicest man in the world if | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
he was the commandant of Auschwitz. How is that possible? That is what I | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
don't know. There was not one flaw on him, one, nothing what was mean, | :23:15. | :23:22. | |
or not nice. First, I didn't believe it. | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
I said it couldn't be. Now you believe it. Now do you belief he | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
was... ? Yes, I believe, but I don't believe he did it himself. | :23:30. | :23:40. | |
Definitely not. There are, God knows all these people who pushed, you | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
know, like somebody is above you and says look, you have to do this, | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
this, this, I don't think it was his idea. I could not believe a man wow | :23:50. | :24:01. | |
with some warm at home, could, er, do something. I believe bad things | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
happen there. Terrible things. Not just bad. Terrible things. Over one | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
million people were murdered. Yes. | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
But you do believe that he, he created the camp Auschwitz, and he | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
ran the camp, where so many... He managed it, but I think his | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
didn't... Start it. He did start with it. He created it. | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
He created it. Who told him to do this? Himmler Himmler told him to do | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
it, and he built the cam, and over one million Jews were murdered, and | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
your father -- in your father's gas Chambers. | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
Yes. I don't know why things like this | :24:51. | :25:00. | |
even can happen. If there is a God, why does God let things like this | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
happen? You don't think the people involved are responsible? Oh, to a | :25:06. | :25:13. | |
certain extent, definitely. But I think there was nothing | :25:13. | :25:22. | |
else... To do. Rudolf Hoess was tried in Poland and | :25:22. | :25:30. | |
in April 1947 hung on a gallows next to the old Auschwitz crematorium | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
cram. From point forward the Hoess family had to reinvent themselves. | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
And in the 1970s, Bridget moved with her American husband, to the suburbs | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
of Washington DC. You have decided not to talk about it with your | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
husband and your children. Why is that? I don't know. I just didn't | :25:47. | :25:55. | |
feel to. I just, certain things there are my problem, or my special | :25:55. | :26:04. | |
secrets, or whatever. Why are you talking to me about this now, after | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
all these years? Maybe I am getting older, and I think different. Not | :26:08. | :26:20. | |
different, but I believe it... Such horror -- such horrible things can | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
be done, from somebody you have no idea. While talking with Bridget, I | :26:26. | :26:35. | |
realised she is still struggling to reconcile the father she -- father | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
she knew with the man whose monstrous acts history has recorded. | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
So there are two sides to your father? Definitely. Couldn't be a | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
person so gentle and so wonderful, and so family orientated, and he can | :26:51. | :27:00. | |
do something like this. I just know the good side. I don't know the bad | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
side. And I think I am glad about it. | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
So if your father was here now, what you would you say to him? Oh... Why? | :27:10. | :27:30. | |
So many questions and no answers. Now, abortion has been legally | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
available in Britain for nearly 50 years. The grounds for allowing the | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
termination of a pregnancy are in theory strictly controlled, but pro | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
lifers claim a characteristically British his pop si shrouds the | :27:44. | :27:51. | |
issue. A single organisation the British pregnancy advisory service | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
ended 50,000 pregnancy. The Chief Executive believes the law is | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
unnecessarily restrictive at times, for examlet on the question of | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
whether officially it should be allowed because the mother doesn't | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
like the sex of the prospective child. It is wrong agenda. Last year | :28:08. | :28:16. | |
the Daily Telegraph sent undercover journalist to accompany young women | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
on a sting operation. They wanted to see if they could persuade doctors | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
to agree to an abortion, because the mother to be didn't want to unborn | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
child, a decision based on their gender. In two cases, doctors were | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
recorded appearing to want to help arrange terminations. | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
No, no, I don't ask questions. If you want a termination, you want a | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
termination. The idea anyone might allow an abortion on these glounds | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
was roundly condemned I was shocked to read local authorities so clinics | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
may have been behaving in this way. It is what is selecting by gender | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
for termination of pregnancy is not only morn morally wrong it is | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
illegal. The 1967 Abortion Act allowed abortion only with the | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
signature of two doctors on the grounds that continuing the | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
pregnancy would involve a greater risk to the physical or mental | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
health of a pregnant woman or her family, than if the baby was born. | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
Or there was a risk that the child would be disabled. | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
Can we put down a different reason? I don't want to say. Last month | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
following an investigation the Crown Prosecution Service said they | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
wouldn't prosecute because it wouldn't be in the public interest. | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
Following that decision, the Chief wouldn't be in the public interest. | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
Executive of the British pregnancy advisory service said it is true | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
that the sex of the foetus is not a legal ground for abortion, nor is | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
rape, or incest or being 13-year-old. Yet they are all | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
reasons why a doctor may believe a woman has met the legal grounds of | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
abortion. And the Chief Executive of the | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
British pregnancy advisory service is with us. We are joined by the | :29:57. | :30:04. | |
former GP and current Conservative MP Sarah wools on the. Under what | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
circumstances would it be legitimate to terminate a pregnancy on the | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
gender of the child? Let us just say that the one thing I have never | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
heard and I have been running the service for ten years now, and I | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
have never heard of a woman walking into a clinic, and simply saying, I | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
want to have an abortion because I don't want a girl or I don't want a | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
boy. Women who come into the clinics have a whole complex set of reasons | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
why they may want to end the pregnancy. It may very well be, that | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
the circumstances of the pregnancy are very much part of that. But you | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
do, defend the right of a woman who have a pregnancy terminated on the | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
grounds of the gender of the future child? What I think is that the law | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
at the moment works reasonably well. The law at the moment allows a | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
doctor to recommend, to make a decision, in good faith, that a | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
woman can have an abortion if he or she believes that it would be | :31:14. | :31:15. | |
damaging, wait a second here, that she believes that it would be | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
it would be damaging to the woman's mental health, for her to continue | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
the pregnancy, so if a doctor believes that the woman's question | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
for o request for the abortion is best for her, then the doctor can | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
for o request for the abortion is make that referral. That to me makes | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
sense. Even if that is on the grounds of the Jimi Hendrixer of the | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
child? Because the doctor -- the gender of the child. The doctor | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
believes she is perhaps so distraught, so strung out, so | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
completely distressed it is better for her mental health, for the | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
doctor to refer her for an abortion. That is a doctor's decision. In | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
those circumstances, a doctor would be hard put to dom any other | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
conclusion, wouldn't he or she? I I a think a doctor should be very much | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
against condoning that sort of at attitude that allows to state that a | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
son is more valuable than a daughter. It could be the other way | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
round. Indeed. In countries where gender selection is practises, we | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
see the harmful effect that has, in distorting the Jimi Hendrixle | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
balance within societies, and again -- the gender balance. | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
It is very harmful and we must be clear. Why you shaking your head? | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
Can we be clear about what is going on here? You know, the Department of | :32:41. | :32:49. | |
Health commissioned after the Telegraph did this scam set up, the | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
Department of Health commissioned research into whether or not sex | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
selection abortion was going on, to the point where girls and boys | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
births were unbalanced. I found that they weren't. They sent the Care | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
Quality Commission to inspect every single abortion clinic in the | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
country, and found that there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever. | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
But you don't have an ethical problem with it. I don't see that | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
there is a problem in the law, in Britain that needs to be resolved, | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
there is a problem in the law, in except perhaps there is a problem | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
with newspaper journalists being set up to entrap doctors, and create a | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
climate where you know, you have to really wonder how doctors are | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
expected to operate, when they are genuinely concerned about whether | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
the person sitting in front of them is trying to set them up to make a | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
statement, to make political capital. Why do people like you | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
believe there is any need to change or clarify the law? Well, I think | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
the point is that the wording of the act is am big use, and I think it | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
would be a sensible thing now for us to look at that wording and put it | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
beyond all doubt, that gender selection abortion is illegal, to | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
make that crystal clear, to doctors who are operating within clinics. I | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
am in favour of women having a choice about abortion, but I think | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
that choice does have limits, and anything that condones these | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
practises should not be allowed and that should be explicit. So what are | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
we supposed to say? That a doctor can approve an abortion, if he | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
thinks that the woman's mental health will be damaged, unless there | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
is a gender element in there? Because that is what you are saying | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
here. Not at all. What I am saying is we should not be colluding with | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
an attitude that says that having a girl or indeed, in some | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
circumstance, having a boy could in any way force someone to become | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
mentally ill. Don't you think it is a problem to assume that doctors are | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
colluding in any attitude, when I would imagine that you as a doctor | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
understands, that when you see a patient, you are really supposed to | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
be acting in their interests. Of course. That is the primary thing... | :35:15. | :35:24. | |
If I was seeing a patient who was in a distressed state because they | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
thought they were under pressure by their family to abort a female | :35:28. | :35:34. | |
foetus. I would be concerned. I wouldn't be colluding for them to | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
think it was the right thing to go ahead with it. We are look at it in | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
the right way round. I think we are looking at it the wrong way round. | :35:43. | :35:50. | |
We are allowing it to be set by the circumstances in which newspaper | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
journalists think that abortion is wrong, now, you, I assume... I | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
assume. It is not about that. How many women... I have consoled very | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
many women who are making the most difficult decision of their lives. | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
If you collude with family pressures that say that this should not | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
continue, because this is an unwanted sex of a baby, that is the | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
wrong thing to do. How many... To say I am going to aid you to go down | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
that course. Joub talking to them about the kind of attitudes that are | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
leading to those pressures and shouldn't be shying I from that. And | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
I think of course, for you to suggest that somehow this is a | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
problem with newspapers, not a problem with individuals, who are | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
not acting within the spirit or indeed the law... How many women... | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
? I would like to know whether you are colluding with these kinds of | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
attitudes? I can tell you, in the 60,000 or so abortions we do every | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
year, my staff tell me that the only people who walk into a clinic, and | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
ask for an abortion because the foetus is the wrong sex are | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
journalist, I would like to ask you. Come on... Sarah, how many women | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
have walked into your surgery, and said they want to end their | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
pregnancy because they are carrying a baby of the wrong sex? Of course I | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
accept... None my surgeries I rest my case. Is It doesn't mean you | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
should rest your case. That is complacent and worrying. OK, we will | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
cut it there. Thank you both very much. It merged today that there | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
have been nearly 400 complaints to the Press Complaints Commission | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
about the Daily Mail's treatment of the Milibands father and son. The | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
PCC of course is hanging on to its role by its finger nails as the | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
great and good decide what should be done about the regulation of the | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
press in Britain. The Mail's story about the man who hated Britain as | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
they put it, has brought the friction between the political class | :37:53. | :38:00. | |
and the newspapers to a new heat. Perhaps it was their intention all | :38:00. | :38:06. | |
along, or perhaps the escalating row over Ed Miliband's Marxist dad gave | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
the Daily Mail a convenient opportunity to remind its readers of | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
the Daily Mail a convenient its bitter battle with the | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
politician, an editorial was clear. If he crushes the freedom of the | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
press, the Mail's thundered, no doubt his father will be proud of | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
him from beyond the grave, where he lies 12 yards from the remains of | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
Karl Marx. This is an early shot in a battle | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
over press regulation, which looks set to flare up again next week. A | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
snake trying to swallow a pig. It has taken a while nor the body | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
snake trying to swallow a pig. It politic to digest the four volume | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
heft of the Leveson report and despite evidence of straining, | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
nothing has emerged from the other end. This is a very complex problem, | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
in fact, it might be impossible. OK, so here is Parliament and here | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
is the press. Now, nobody, including Lord Leveson thought it was a good | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
idea for the politicians to directly regulate the press. Scrub that what, | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
what was suggested instead the newspapers set up their own board | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
diand the Parliament would pass a law recognising that body. | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
Membership of the recognised body would attract newspapers to sign up | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
because it would protect them from being sued for example. | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
But there are a couple of problem, the Prime Minister didn't want | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
Parliament passing a law. He said it was crossing a rubicon. Labour and | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
the Liberal Democrats wanted a law, just as Leveson himself recommended. | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
the Liberal Democrats wanted a law, So how do you have a law that is not | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
law? A law that is not a law. I know, a Royal Charter. | :39:44. | :39:53. | |
And thus with great fanfare the parties agreed they would use this | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
medieval instrument to create a recognition pod that would approve a | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
self regulation body. Royal cha ters are set up be I the Privy Council. | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
The intention was they would approve it in May. It is now October and | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
still nothing. So what has gone wrong? Well, some of the newspapers | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
didn't like the all party version of the Royal Charter, so they came up | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
with their own, and petitions the Privy Council to accept theirs | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
instead. It's a convention that the privacy council isn't brought into | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
such matter, so a council was set up to decide whether to recommend it. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
If they decided not the other version would go forward | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
automatically. Here is what the Prime Minister said about it last | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
month. We have to follow the correct | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
processes, listen to legal advice and they have said we have to | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
consider the press drafted charter first, so that is under way at the | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
moment, obviously, I am not sitting on that committee, so I have to be | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
careful what I say but I have said in the House of Commons, I think the | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
careful what I say but I have said press charter has sop things to | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
recommend it but it is deficient in key respect, and I think that is a | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
problem. In case you are not getting the Prime Minister's carefully | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
worded hint, here he is being clearer. Look, to be clear, I remain | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
committed to the cross-party charter. Next week, the Privy | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
Council meets. If it were to approve the press version, that would mean | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
re-opening the all party negotiations which in any case | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
Labour say is a no-no. The Prime Minister is worried the press won't | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
sign up, and it could get really really messy. Perhaps Lord Leveson | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
himself who wrote this report can help us out. He is due to give | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
evidence to MPs next Thursday, the day after the Privy Council meets. | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
Ideas please. The simpler the better. | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
There we are. Clear as mud. Steve Hewlett is here. Apart from | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
correcting him on the question of will he is Lord Leveson or Lord | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
Justice Leveson, can you explain? OK. If you go back to the beginning | :42:09. | :42:15. | |
of this, Leveson said there should be a new self re-regulatory body | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
able to fine up to £1 million, would be a new self re-regulatory body | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
be more independent and so on. If you like that was the big idea. He | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
said he observed I should say, that whenever there had been inquiries | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
into the press before, and proposals has emerged for what to do about it, | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
at some point after this had been agreed the press would backslide, | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
wouldn't do it at all or stop doing it so he said a key part of his | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
proposal was that there be new self-regulate tribody or more than | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
one, there would be a recognition body that would give the regulator | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
an occasional once over, an MoT, a kite mark to give the public | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
confidence that the press was still doing what it was that everybody | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
agreed they should. This is what is at issue. The Royal Charter is about | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
establishing the recognition body. And the recognition body is a guard | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
dog for the guard dog. Correct. It gives a periodic MoT. It is the | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
linchpin of the Leveson system. He said every time we have been here | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
before, sooner or later, in many cases sooner, the press have said | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
what they needed to say to get out of the room and then back slid, so | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
this is the key to stopping that from happening. How close is that to | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
resolution? Well, as the piece pointed out, because of the way the | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
privacy council works they have decided to do it through a royal | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
chart e there were two. The cross-party one and the press one. | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
They have to dispense with one of them before the other can go | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
through, because they say if there is more than one charter for the | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
same issue Knight Kerr go through because it invites the Queen, in | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
whose name this is enacted to get involved. So my understanding is | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
that the concern sis is the press charter will be rejected. It hasn't | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
been rejected yet, I believe papers were sent out today, to a | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
sub-committee of the Privy Council, they are meeting on Monday, they are | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
petrified or highly sensitive, if they are not very careful, you saw a | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
bit of it in what David Cameron said there, that the press will seek some | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
kind of process review, judicial review or otherwise and stuff up the | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
process inducing further delay. If they do it properly the expectation | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
is, the press version will be rejected, which leafs just the | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
cross-party version. The next thing that happens of course is if that | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
gets implemented, in its current form, there is every chance that the | :44:40. | :44:47. | |
press, who are meanwhile setting up a self regulator called IPSO, they | :44:47. | :44:56. | |
may not seek recognition. If that were to happen... Try and keep up | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
viewers! You have a real problem, because the backstop in the Leveson | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
system would cease to function. Very important. Now the influence of | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
the Mail quickly on this? David Cameron, part of that process was | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
asking the other party leader, Nick Clegg and Miliband, to consider | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
negotiating further, to see if there was a position, a consensual | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
position that could be reached to avoid the impasse that will occur, | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
if the recognition body is up but the regulator chooses not the seek | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
recognition. Let us see if we can find a charter about which even can | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
agree. If Miliband was at any point tempted and there is no indication | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
he was, if he was ever top story the suggestion it might be something to | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
negotiate on after the events of this week I would say it was a | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
guaranteed certainty he won't be going there now. Thank you. Well, | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
that is it for tonight, good night. | :45:55. | :45:57. |