Browse content similar to 17/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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One of the four murders who killed indiscriminately in the attack on | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
the shopping mall in Nairobi grew up, not in poverty-stricken, | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
war-torn Somalia, but in peaceful Norway. | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
As horrifying new pictures emerge of what happened during the attack, we | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
can identify one of the killers. We trace his story to the non-descript | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
town which took him in and which he rejected for life as a Jihadi. | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
Also tonight: Why nt doesn't the energy secretary do something to | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
stop people being fleeced by the suppliers. -- why doesn't. | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
I had worn my solitude stowically enough without realising how aLen I | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
was. And we have a rare interview with Donna Tartt, the woman who | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
wrote the Seek re History and is about to release her latest novel. | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
-- Secret. I feel lucky I can devote this amount of time to doing what I | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
do. This is what I think about all the time. I'm obsessed. | :01:02. | :01:10. | |
It's now over three weeks since the terrorist attack on the Westgate | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
attack in the shopping mall in Nairobi, at least 63 people were | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
killed. It was almost immediately attributed to the Al-Shabab | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
organisation. Tonight a Newsnight investigation can disclose that one | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
of the four attackers wasn't a Somali, but we have traced him to | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
his Norwegian home town. Gabriel Gatehouse's report contains | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
distressing pictures. It's a foggy road that winds its way | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
south from Oslo as the dark, long, nordic winter sets in. We are a long | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
way here from Nairobi. This is the story of a journey - the | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
journey of a young boy who fled war in his native Somalia. This country | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
is the country who took them with open arms. A boy who found a new | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
life in Norway. I don't know if it's right to call him extreme. It was | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
just different from me. But, who apparently turned his back on the | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
West and the life it had offered him. | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
Investigators believe this man is that boy from Norway. | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
So, we think we've identified one of the Westgate attackers. We think | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
we've found his home town, a small place called Larvik, south-west of | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
Oslo. So that's where we are going now. | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
Newsnight is on a journey to find out who he is and why he might have | :02:51. | :02:59. | |
turned to terror. As dawn breaks, we reach Larvik, a | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
modest town on Norway's southern coast. This quiet become water seems | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
about as distant as it's possible to imagine from Somalia's | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
two-decade-long conflict. That war gave rise to Al-Shabab, | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
meaning literally The Youth, which on 21st September announced in | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
spectacular fashion, it's intention to join the international A-league | :03:26. | :03:34. | |
of Al-Qaeda-linked terrorist groups. Shortly after midday that Saturday, | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
gunmen stormed the Westgate shopping mall. A four-day siege ensued. | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Dozens of hostages were thought to be stuck inside the complex, held | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
there, the authorities said, by 10 to 15 heavily-armed terrorists. But | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
when the CC TV footage came out, it only showed four attackers, fevered | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
speculation about their identities did little to establish any clarity. | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
There is a lot of rumours circulating and we have to be | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
watchful, since the Kenyans before have had somewhat very broad focuses | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
in their investigations. In Nairobi, all the investigators really knew, | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
was what the attackers were wearing. They dubbed them "black shirt" | :04:20. | :04:28. | |
"white shirt" "blue shirt" and "pink shirt." Then from Oslo came an | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
unexpected twist. In a bland statement the Norwegian Security | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
Service said it was investigating whether one of its own citizens was | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
involved in the attack. They didn't mention a name. But sources, in | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
Kenya and in Norway v be pointed us to this man. -- have pointed us. | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
Black shirt, seen firing a kalashnikov rifle inside the | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
supermarket on the first day of the siege. Newsnight can reveal here for | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
the first time that the man under investigation is dew dew dew. He's | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
-- Hussan Dhuhulow. He is 23 and is a nor weedge | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
citizen. Dramatic footage which emerged for the first time today | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
shows the man investigate os believe as Hussan Dhuhulow shooting a man | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
already in a pool of blood. He and his family came to Norway as | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
refugees in 1999. They ended up in sleepy Larvik. Hussan was nine. | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
Informs in this block of flats that we understand that Hussan Dhuhulow | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
lived as a teenager with his family, until a few years ago. A neighbour | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
told us he disappeared and moved to Africa. Mortem Henriksen took a look | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
from the CC TV footage from inside Westgate. It might be him. This one | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
in the blackjack et. Hussan Dhuhulow left for somal why in 2009. -- | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
Somalia. So he hasn't seen his neighbour for about four years, but | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
he points, without prompting to black shirt, apparently | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
corroborating our other sources. He was pretty extreme. In what way? He | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
was talking about the Koran all the time. So, he didn't like the way we | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
lived here. His father told me that he didn't | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
like the way it was going. Was his father worried about him, did you | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
sense? Yes, he was worried. What did he say? He was talking about -- when | :06:37. | :06:49. | |
he was small, he was fighting with his school friends. He was in | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
trouble in school. There are other links, too, between Norway and | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
Somalia. Two weeks after Westgate, US Navy Seal Team 6. The same guys | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
that took out Osama Bin Laden, carried out an ambitious raid on a | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
small town on the Somali coast. Their target was a senior Al-Shabab | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
operator who goes by the name of Ikrema. The raid wasn't a success, | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
the Americans didn't get the man but he is understood to be a senior | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
recruiter of foreign fighters for Al-Shabab and he spent time here in | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
Norway. Between 20 and 30 Norwegian citizens, almost exclusively of | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
Somali origin, are thought to have travelled to East Africa to join the | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
fight. Of particular concern is a group known as Generation 1.5, those | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
who were born in Somalia, but came to Norway at a relatively young age. | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
They need people that really are quite ignorant on Somalia, which is | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
dangerous. Because that will give them a more internationalist agenda | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
against these people and it might also make them more dangerous when | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
they return back to their home countries. There is a sizeable | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
Somali community here. Attempts to help them integrate into Norwegian | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
society have had mixed results. This man is a success story. Like Hussan | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
Dhuhulow, he came to Norway at the age of nine. But today he holds a | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
seat on Oslo City Council. He says he knows many who feel alienated in | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
their adopted homeland. I have seen people who I know - not | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
my close friends - that have been radicalised, that have been changed | :08:33. | :08:40. | |
a lot. Some people who I know or I know their parents who have | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
travelled back and, yes, I have... Who travelled back specifically to | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
fight? Yes, to fight. Here in Larvik, few people are willing to | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
talk openly about Hussan Dhuhulow. We have, though, spoken to one | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
family member, who didn't want to go on camera. But they spoke of | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
infrequent and erratic phonecalls home, each time from a different | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
Somali mobile number. The last time he called, they said, was this | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
summer. He said he was in trouble and wanted to come home. Larvik's | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
Somalis came together this week to celebrate Eid. But this is a | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
community under pressure. This police had, we understand, been | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
keeping tabs on Hussan Dhuhulow for quite some time. We showed the CCTV | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
footage to his relative. "I don't know what to think or feel", they | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
said, "If it is him, he must have been brain washed. | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
With James Ferguson is the author of World's Most Dangerous Place a book | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
about Somalia and the terrorist group, Al-Shabab that is based | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
there. Are you surprised by this discovery? Not really. I this I it | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
fits the profile. This has been going on for sometime. We know that | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
there are - there is a brigade of international fighters with | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
Al-Shabab from all over Europe, from America and Canada. This happens to | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
be from Norway but not so very surprising, no. This one is believed | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
to be from Norway. He's representative of the general | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
disaffection in the Somali communities, or what? I think we | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
need to be very careful about that and not to demonise the entire | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
community. The diaspora is enormous there are something like 2 million | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
Somalis living outside Somalia proper. 22,000 in Norway. Far more | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
in this country. The vast majority are not potential terrorists. I want | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
to stress that. But there are a significant number who might be. | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
They have been going back to fight for Al-Shabab for some time in some | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
numbers. When you say "some numbers", what do you mean? Well | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
last year the Royal United Services Institute suggested there were 200 | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
fighters, fighting for Al-Shabab, of woman, 50 are British. We know in | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
the States 48 American Sol alleys have gone back to fight for | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Al-Shabab for the last five or six years and so on. A population of | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
22,000 in Norway t would be surprising if thereby weren't some, | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
among a population of that size, who were also enticed back to fight. You | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
say the biggest European Community in this this country? By far. No-one | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
quite knows. The official census is something like 108,000 but actually | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
if you ask the police they say 200,000 or 300,000 British Somalis | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
here. It is not quite clear how many. But it is very large and by | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
fart largest in Europe. Presumably they come and go, these young men | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
who are going to see action or... Correct, yes. Or exercise an | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
affiliation with Al-Shabab in some way. They are British passport | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
holders. There is a lot of traffic. They are entitled to come and G the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
diaspora is very much engaged with its home country. There are so many | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
Somalis going back to Mogadishu now because things are getting better | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
and there is a minor property boom and people are going back to build | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
stuff there. This is what worries the security forces here, of course | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
it does. The danger is someone goes back to Somalia, getss weapons' | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
training and explosives' training and come backs on a European | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
passport, back into Europe and does something here. That's the great | :12:11. | :12:18. | |
fear. Thank you very much. Another of the big energy companies hiked | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
its prices today. Centrica, owner of British Gas, is going to charge | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
customers over another 9% a year on average for gas and electricity. | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
That is more than three times the rate of inflation. The Prime | :12:31. | :12:32. | |
Miinister used the unenergetic adjective "disappointing" to | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
describe the price rises. As for doing anything about it, the advice | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
remains the same - shop around. This is - no pun intended - a | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
highly-charged issue - because Labour has promised to cap energy | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
costs for a while if elected. The companies themselves blame | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
Government taxes and obligations. Andy Verity reports. British Gas is | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
advertising today for a new social media manager. Successful applicants | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
may have to inviet customers on Twitter to hashtag "ask BG" but with | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
these tweets after their price-rise today would you take the job? Which | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
items of furniture do you you in your humble opinion think people | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
should burn first this winteder? British Gas, freezing pensioners, | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
not prices. Do the British Gas board prefer to a bit in ?20 or ?50 notes. | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
When you tell 8 million households they'll pay ?100 million extra a | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
year for their energy, there is no problem generating heat. These are | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
very disappointing announcements by British Gas. There are things we can | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
do and we are intervening. We are legislating to say these companies | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
have to put their customers on to the lowest tar Eve. I think we need | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
relief from rising energy prices and a Government to stand up to the | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
energy companies and fix the broken market. Why are these prices going | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
up? Because we have a market that's not working and companies that are | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
over-charging people. Against that blizzard of public | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
criticism, ask BG sought shelter in a fact: does the big bad energy | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
company have a pint? The power companies point out most of the | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
costs pushing your bill up aren't within their control. If the market | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
price rises they have to pay it, but, they point out, theres a chunk | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
of your bill which is under politicians' control. | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
Government-imposed costs like subsidising the likes of that. | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
If you have given down the M4 near reading you might recognise this. | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
When the wind is too high it can't general rate electricity. Too low | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
and it won't generate much. Running at 16% of its capacity it is one of | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
the least effective wind turbines in the company. As with half of the | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
turbines, half its income comes from subsidies. -- as with other | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
turbines. They are not driving down costs or | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
providing an alternative to cool the developing world. It is | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
counter-productive. Is it this that brings misery to your letterbox when | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
the bill arrives? Well actually you will pay more for this, a British | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
Gas campaign under a the so-called eco-scheme. The inner joy company's | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
obligation forces firms to hit targets for helping people on low | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
incomes or old draftee homes but first they have to find them. They | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
cannot use data from the benefits' system because of privacy laws, so | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
it costs hundreds of pounds to find each needy household, you pay. For | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
those who prefer light to heat this is what it does to your bill. Now it | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
is the blue slice, 9% of the bill or ?112. Of, that the biggest amount, | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
?57, subsidises insulation and new boilers for hard-pressed households. | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
?11 bays for rebates to 2 million people in fuel poverty, the | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
warm-home discount. ?7 rewards households that generate energy from | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
wind turbines and solar panels. ?8 is what firms are forced to pay for | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
permits to emit carbon. ?5 is to keep the price of carbon up and ?3 | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
for smart betters and better building. -- for smart metres. | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
And 2% of the bill goes on windfarms. | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
In five-year's time your bill-money won't be paying to subsidise these, | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
you will also be paying nuclear generators to produce energy at far | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
more than the market price. You can buy wholesale electricity at a | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
market price of ?52 per mega Watt hour but reports today say you'll Jo | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
v to pay nuclear generators nearly double the market price which will | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
come off your bill. The renewables have made everything else | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
uncompetitive. Not make a living S nuclear economic? Nobody knows, what | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
we know is they can't make a living in this distorted market. They want | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
a subsidy. Ever wants a subsidy because renewables have a subsidy. | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
-- ever. These are the Government's figures showing the total effect of | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
all the policies on your bill. This year they'll add 17%. In 2020, | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
they'll add, 33% and by 2040, it'll be 41%. Politicians don't all blame | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
the power companies. This whole George Osborne criticism of green | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
taxes is extraordinary. Because it was George Osborne and the Tories | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
who insisted on putting a cashen price floor in the coalition | :17:21. | :17:22. | |
agreement. The Liberal Democrats didn't want T the Department of | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
energy and climate change didn't need it to make sure the electricity | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
sector decarbonises. It was a straight revenue-raising measure. It | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
is utter hypocrisy on the part of George Osborne. He caught to trap T | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
The institute for fiscal studies say green taxes on bills is so high it | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
is as if VAT was paid at the top rate. | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
Companies are paying things like the climate change levy they are clearly | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
paying the European emission trading scheme costs, and they are paying | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
this thing called the carbon-reduction commitment. Of | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
course, someone has it pay for that. It maybe that we'll pay higher | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
prices. It maybe that the profits of the companies are lower. It maybe | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
that their workers are earning less. Those effects, whilst hidden, in | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
terms of households, are there. The man proposing to freeze bills once | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
imposed new green taxes and his opposition counted part supported | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
him. Those policies were designed the make energy more expensive. The | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
trouble s they succeeded. -- the trouble is. | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
In a moment the energy secretary, the Liberal Democrat, Ed Davey but | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
first Caroline Flint, the Labour shadow. What is it that you think | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
that bill pay remembers having it pay for that they shouldn't? -- bill | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
payers? They are being over-charged. We have looked closely at the | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
wholesale costs of electricity and gas over the last four years. We saw | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
they went down substantially in 2009. It was never reflected in | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
bills and the mark-up between wholesale costs and the retail | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
price, we reckon about two-thirds cannot be accounted for. One-third | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
is issues around the green levies and installations. What is it they | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
shouldn't be having it pay for? The bill payers? Yes. What they should | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
be paying for. What they should not be paying for? Well, what they | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
shouldn't be paying for is unreasonable profits that the energy | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
companies are making. And you determine whether they are | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
reasonable or not, do you? Well, we have looked very closely, Jeremy, at | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
the wholesale costs. Because that's something that the energy companies | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
always tell us, put up prices. We believe, looking at the evidence, | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
that actually, there is no case for that. But the truth is, we need to | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
reform this market because we have a vertically integrated structure | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
which means these companies create energy, renewables, gas, other forms | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
of energy, nuclear, sell it to themselves and sell it on to us. We | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
want to break it open. You are perfectly happy with bill payers | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
paying for green energy, paying an insulation subsidy and all that sort | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
of thing? I think it is the case - from nationalisation from | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
privatisation, there has always been some sort of social tariff or | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
obligation to help the fuel poor. You are happy with it. I think it is | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
a good thing to help people insulate homes. On the green levies, a | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
fraction of the bill, something like only 5% or even less of the bill, it | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
is about investment in our future. But you are happy with that I'm | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
happy with investing in a cleaner... It is the profit you object to I | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
object to the distortionist market we have with six companies | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
dominating it. If you feel strongly why don't you advocate | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
re-nationalisation? I don't think that is he at answer either. I think | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
it it is about making the market transparent and competitive. If you | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
look at the big six they reflect where regional mob op poise under | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
nationalisation. -- monopolies. How can it be transparent if you in | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
Government are setting the price? We are saying we will have a temporary | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
freeze for 20 months which one, recognises over-charging but two, | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
allows us to bring in legislation to reform the market. You speak on | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
behalf of the party that in Government saw the average energy | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
bill double? They did go up but they are going up at three times the rate | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
in the last three years as we have seen bills go up by ?300 and ?400. | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
Which is why we recognise, that spanning several governments, | :21:11. | :21:12. | |
including our own, something has gone wrong with this market and why | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
we have come to the view that it needs to be changed. That means | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
reorganising the way this, McEt works, opening it up -- market. | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
Breaking it down and having a power exchange where all energy is in an | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
open space where energy can be bought and sold on to us. To be | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
clear about this - you would fix the market because you would set what | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
price could be laid. You would also continue to pass on to bill-payers, | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
the charges that Government is currently loafying, both of those | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
things are true, are they? -- levying? We would have having a | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
temporary price freeze but would give a new regulator the power to | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
monitor more closely the wholesale costs and if they fall and those | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
reductions aren't reflected in the bills a new regulator would have the | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
power to force those companies to pass that reduction on. But I have | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
to say, whilst it is quite right that we keep a close eye on | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
subsidies for renewables and nuclear, and make sure we are | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
getting a fair deal. While it is quite right that we should keep | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
under review the money we ask bill payers to support to energy | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
efficiency schemes, they have to be part of what will be a cleaner and | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
cheaper future in terms of our energy supply. Thank you. | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
Well, Ed Davey is here now, the energy secretary. | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
What is your advice to people who may have a genuine belief they | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
cannot pay these new bills? Well, I do think they can switch. We have | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
seen a big increase in competition under this coalition government. We | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
have deregulated. There are now eight independent suppliers | :22:43. | :22:44. | |
challenging the big six thanks to our approximately sis. People can | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
make big savings. -- policies. Which companies should they switch to? | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
Well there are eight independent suppliers. They are on the uSwitch | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
website. People can go and see them and can see the energy advice | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
available on our hotline. Given what we know of how the energy companies | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
behave, only a fool would change from a company which has already | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
raised its price to one which is about to do so, when they don't know | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
what they are going to raise to it. To. If you look now, you will find | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
one company will allow you to fix for two years to April 2015, and on | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
the British Gas tar Eve, before this tariff. You could have saved ?150. | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
After this price rise you will be able to save ?250. So there are some | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
really big savings to be had out there, thanks to the competition | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
that we have now got into the market. When did you last switch | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
your energy supplier? Earlier this year Who did you switch to | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
Sainsbury?s energy. I did the big London energy switch. Hour idea, to | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
enable people to come together to get a better deal in the market, | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
pulling the purchasing power. I was part of that and saved over ?200. | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
What do you set your thermostat to at home? I'm not absolutely sure, to | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
be honest, Jeremy. My wife tends to take care of that. But do you advise | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
- you do give advice, don't you? You say there is no need to overheat | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
your home or have the air conditioning on, if you have air | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
conditioning. You do. What do you recommend? Well, to my wife or... ? | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
What is a sensible temperature for people to have in their home? A lot | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
depends on, of course, the building and the insulation because what we | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
are trying to say is insulate your home more. Do things like the green | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
deal, use the energy company obligations, so if you insulate your | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
home more you can turn heating down. Are people too accustomed not to | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
wear jumpers? Well, I'm sure people wear jumpers. I wear jumpers at | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
home. You do? You are missing the point here. We need to help people | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
with the bills. I am extremely worried about them. We can use | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
competition the way we have but we can make our homes warmer and we can | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
use less electricity and goes by going energy efficient and that's | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
what the Government is trying to do. About 17% of these bills is | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
Government charges, right? No. What is it? 4% is the green levies and 5% | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
is the social charges on things like fuel poverty, helping the poorest in | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
our society manage their bitches I'm very supportive of those. I'm also | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
-- manage their bills. I'm very supportive of those. | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
What about nuclear? I hope to make an announcement shortly about that. | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
That will raise the price of energy, won't it? The first time a nuclear | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
power station is likely to be generating is in the next decade, | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
possibly even as far as ten years ahead. If it is that far ahead, we | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
won't be paying for that nuclear energy for ten years' time. When we | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
do pay, we'll be in quite a different world. We'll probably see | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
higher gas prices. We will see carbon prices. And therefore, it is | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
quite likely and I hope to be able to set this out in due course, that | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
nuclear can be very xetedtive. Why -- competitive. | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
Why do you believe that people who are paying bills should pay for all | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
of this, as opposed to the taxpayer? Well, it does make sense through the | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
energy industry rather than the taxpayer paying it. If it was paid | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
by the taxpayer there would be something progressive about it? We | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
get progressivity and fairness in the system through thingses called | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
the warm home discount. 2 million of the most vulnerable people in the | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
society, over a million of the poorest pensioners get money, ?135 | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
directly off their bill and that produces fairness in the way we | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
balance our social and our environmental policies. Do you think | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
the system is working well? We need more competition. We inherited from | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
the last lot, the big six. We think the big six have been a real problem | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
and that's why we have deregulated. We have now got eight - your | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
eyebrows are going up. The question was whether you think the system is | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
working well? It is working better. We need to do more. It is not | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
working well, then? Well, it's been working better since we improved | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
competition in our energy bill before Parliament we are helping to | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
simplify tariffs, to make bills simpler and get more competition in | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
the wholesale market. I'm not satisfied at all. I think what we | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
inherited before was not good enough. We are dramatically | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
increasing competition. It be isn't just a case of what you inherited, | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
though, is it? I mean you, for example, set the carbon floor, | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
didn't you? We did indeed. And as Chris Huhne has testified in that | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
piece of tape we saw a moment ago, that was something that was insisted | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
upon by George Osborne, was agreed to by you, and which has raised | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
bills. Is Well, it is about 1%, slightly less. I don't think you can | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
put all of prices on to that. The money is not being spent upon | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
energy. It is being given to the Treasury? Well, it is very important | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
to send a very important price signal to investors in low carbon. | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
What we are seeing - and this is the other missing part of the equation - | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
how much investment have we seen? We have seen ?35 billion of investment | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
in clean energy and electricity infrastructure. We need that | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
investment urgently. We have an energy security problem in this | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
country. You can read reports about it. Why do we have that problem? | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
Because we have had over a decade-and-a-half without that | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
investment. The coalition government is turning that be around. We are | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
now seeing tens of billions of pounds in investment. I can say to | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
you - under this Government - we will be able to keep the lights on | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
and we will be making investments for the future. Not only will bills | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
be lower in the future because of the investments we are making but we | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
can have energy security in this country. | :28:30. | :28:31. | |
Thank you very much. Now, there isn'ted a mainstream -- | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
isn't a mainstream politician who speaks out against social mobility | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
even if it means for every rung of life's ladder that one person climbs | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
so someone else must suffer a fall but for all the bluster, the | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
Government stands accused by the very people it asks to assess its | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
performance of willing the ends but not the means. The minimum wage is | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
too-low. Two-thirds of children defined as in poverty are in a | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
family that works. Jim Re, d reports. | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
-- Reed. 46 years ago this end-of-terraced | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
home kick-started a quiet revolution. A brick layer from | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
Romford became the first tenant it buy his house from the Greater | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
London Council. -- to buy. 2 million sales later and for many, | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
home-ownership in estates like this is still a sign of aspiration, of | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
getting ahead. This man, Jim Reagan paid just ?2,500 for his home in | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
1967. Less than twice his annual income. Matching his father make | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
history was son Mick, filmed here as a 20-year-old. | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
Four decades later, we brought him back to his childhood home. London | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
was changing and all we had was a garden with chickens in. A pub in a | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
corner. No grass in the garden. They all came around, the media and press | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
and had tea and sandwiches. It was embarrassing. I think, at the time, | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
being a working man, it was a step up the ladder but it was security | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
for me and my brother Danny. He now lives in Peterborough. For us to say | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
-- if anything went wrong, we would be safe for the future. That's all | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
really. By working hard, saving and buying their own council house the | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
likes of Jim Reagan and millions of others felt they were investigating, | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
building a better life for themselves and their families. What | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
today's report in all it's 348 pages is saying is that those days have | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
gone and even many working parents will struggle to pull themselves out | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
of poverty. The transient poverty that's | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
stalling mobility is now a big problem, not just for low income | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
families but for middle income families. Many of those parents are | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
feeling that for the fist time in a century, their children when they | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
grow up, will have lowest living standards than they have enjoyed. | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
Sadly, that prospect, may well come to pass. The message today was that | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
hard work is no longer the clear route out of poverty it once was. | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
Most children living in households considered to be poor now have at | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
least one parent in a job. Over the last 15 years wages have | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
simply not kept up with economic growth. Weekly earnings are now | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
lower in real terms than they were back in 1996. -- 1997. | :31:32. | :31:40. | |
Consider We have seen a flatlining of earnings and incomes, for a large | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
part of society. The growth we saw in the pre-crisis jeers was very | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
much skewed and concentrated in the hands of a minority at the time. | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
That was to do with the industrial structure we had with | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
financialisation and the dominance of the financial services industry. | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
It is also down to global trends which means we have a growing | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
Polarisation of the labour market. High rewards for high-skilled jobs, | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
low rewards for low-skilled jobs and a hollowing out in the middle. The | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
the first-ever council house sold has changed with the times. The | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
two-bed semi seen in 1967 has been extended three times and is now a | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
six bedroom house worth over ?300,000. Jim Reagan sold his | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
council house own. It's now owned by Joseph and Nicola Duffield. They | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
might live in a six-bedroom property but they sthar with elderly parents | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
and two sons in their 20s who can't yet buy their own place. -- but they | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
share it. For us there was jobs. You could work from one to the next. If | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
you wanted overtime you could do it. That's what we Z it didn't matter | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
how many hours we worked, so long as we paid everything I was willing to | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
do that. But the youngsters today don't have that opportunity. There | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
is not the jobs, you are right. There is not the jobs now. If they | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
are in the opportunity where they can do more hours for al-Muntasser, | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
that's -- more hours for more money that is how they can get on to the | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
property ladder but they are not there. Everything has changed. It is | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
a changed world. Social mobility can't be measured just by | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
home-ownership, of course. Today's report recommends raising the | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
minimum wage and shifting welfare payments from some pensioners to | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
working families to close what the author's call the country's fairness | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
deficit. Joining us now is the author and | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
columnist, Bidisha and David skeleton founder of a think-tank | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
trying to make the Tories more appealing to working-class voteders. | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
This is a really striking finding, that work is no longer the way out | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
of poverty, the way you can make yourself socially upwardly mobile. | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
What has gone wrong? For me what it shows is more needs to be done to | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
ensure that, as hasn't been the case for the past 15 years, that wages | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
keep up with prices. But, also, it shows, over the past few decades, | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
our education system has quite simply failed some of the poorest in | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
society. In the long term, what we have to do is boost our skills. | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
That's the only way to really increase earnings, over a long term | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
and really boost social mobility. What do you think has gone wrong? I | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
think it is an incredibly striking report. I second what you say but | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
this is about the fundamentals, isn't it? What this reports does is | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
look ahead to the generation who are now 10, 11, and 12. What future are | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
we giving them? Where do we need it put the money? Education, health | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
care, childcare, disability benefit. The classic things. What is so | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
interesting about this report, is that it makes visible the invisible. | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
It looks ahead to 2020 where there will be 2 million children living in | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
poverty. 15% of working-age adults, 16% of pensioners, it is a very | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
striking and damning prognosis. And work not being the way out | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
Absolutely and there being all sorts of other obstacles. Work is not the | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
way out. If you want a university education, it is expensive. You may | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
not be able to find a job when you get to the end of it. It is also | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
about empowering those people who aren't at the stage of thinking - I | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
want to go to a great school and top university. It is about saying - | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
where are the apprenticeships? If you get a job that doesn't require a | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
degree, will you be paid a wage, even the minimum wage, that is | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
liveable? This is a really bleak and depressing future? Which for me show | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
the importance of education reform which is the only way out in the | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
long term. We should think about ways of increasing the minimum wage | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
if we can safeguard jobs by reforming the tax system but in the | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
long term we need to make sure we reform education so that people from | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
the poorest parts of society do get this opportunity. I'm passionate | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
about this. I went to a school where only 10% of people were getting five | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
good A to Cs but there were so many great people but they weren't | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
allowed to make the most of their potential. It is important to reform | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
education to make sure people can make the most of their potential and | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
we build more houses so people can get on the housing ladder. What | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
about the report saying that the cards aren't being dealt evenly, as | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
between the old and too much that the young are getting too much and | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
the old too little I absolutely disagree with some of the | :36:35. | :36:36. | |
recommendation of the report which is that we look at the furthest | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
edges of society and say to the mythical rich - OK you don't have | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
to... But there are some. Yes but that's not the answer. If you want | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
education reform. If you want long-term reform of all of other | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
things we care about in society - which by the way we have been | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
talking about for 20 years - you raise money. How do you do that? You | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
don't penalise pensioners, regardless of whether they are rich, | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
poor or medium. You raise money by taxing those individuals who are | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
still working and those corporations who are making millions and you tax | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
them by 0.5% more. I almost made a Freudian slip by saying 5% more, | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
which is secretly what I think. But 0.5% and that will raise the money. | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
You can't go through the rigmarole to find the rich pensioners and get | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
their TV licence money back off them. When we talk about social | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
mobility, assuming we fleed mobilitied upwards -- we moon | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
mobility upwards. Presumably there are some people who are socially | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
mobile downwards. Is that a problem? Not necessarily. I think social | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
mobility is about making the most out of their potential. For me the | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
problem is you have people at the age of five... If somebody goes up, | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
somebody else has to come down. You need people to make the most out of | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
their potential. At five the vocabulary gap between swung brought | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
up in a poor or rich household is about one year. We need to think | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
about that and make sure the people make the most out of their | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
potential. But for that to happen society needs to be more flat, | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
doesn't it? Not at all. If you look at the dynamic successful socially | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
mobile societies in the world they are not more flat but they are | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
prosperous. What is the model? There are various. What are they? If you | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
look at Sweden, Sweden has done education and welfare reform over | :38:28. | :38:29. | |
the past few years, because the flatter model wasn't working for it. | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
So, the model which is - socially mobile and economically prosperous | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
is what we are looking for. Can I say something - which is... Of | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
course you can, that's why you are here. It is not bh flatness. I think | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
the model has to be more flexible. It bothers me when I sea see reports | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
saying two-thirds of people living under the poverty line, one parent | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
works. What that means is they work outside the home. It means the other | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
parent is doing the childcare which is a huge amount of work done for | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
free. We are getting on to an entirely different subject. I am not | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
about to do that. Of what is it that is keeping them home if they want to | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
work? It is the lack of meaningful and worthwhile well-remunerated | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
flexible work. They know if they work outside the home, they can't | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
afford the childcare. Thank you both very much. | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
Now to the bit of the programme that I certainly have been waiting for. | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
As no-one can read knows, the American novelist, Donna Tartt is | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
one of the most exciting perpetrators of fiction in the | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
world. The Seek re History somehow managed to be both an international | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
best-seller and a cult classic. -- the Secret History. It came out 20 | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
years ago and her latest, only her third novel, the Goldfifshling is | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
published next week. She rarely gives interviews. Kirsty leapt at | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
the chance and leapt into a plane to New York. | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
I can write anywhere. I can write curled newspaper a corner in a spare | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
airchair -- armchair in somebody's house. I write on the Madison Avenue | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
bus. I write all over the place. Always have been able to. In the | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
bathtub. I can write anywhere. In the library? I can write in the | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
library. I wrote a lot of Goldfinch in the New York Public Library. In | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
the Allen Room there, which was wonderful. That because there were | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
wrenches books. What makes the -- because there were reference books | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
there? I know a lot of writers would be horrified to be in a public | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
space. If you need a character all you have to do is look up at people | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
walking back and forth and it is like being an artist sketching in | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
the a sidewalk cafe. People, walk-on characters, everybody you need is | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
right there. Of course, books - this was a book for which I had to read a | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
lot. If you are at home, for example, if you are in the | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
countryside, do you a a routine? Do you write every day? Every now and | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
then life will intervene. I write every day. If I have guests I will | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
slip away to my little room where I work and, always, yes. You are a | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
net-taker, then, too? I ka area anotebook wherever I go -- I carry. | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
If I don't write it down when I think of it, I will never think of | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
it again. Most of my notes are "bits of the mind's string too short to | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
use" which is a phrase that has been used. So many of my notes are bits | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
and bobs and little magpie gleamings and glintings and they won't turn up | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
in any piece of finished work. What about at night? Are you a night | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
writer? I do. A night writer. I like that. I do. Well t depends - if I | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
have had a hard day I will quit, I will knock-off and go do something | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
else. But if I'm - if I'm on a run, doing well, I'm like a gambler, I | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
don't want to get up from the table. You have written, then, if you are | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
saying you write every day. Yes. You have more or less written solidly | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
for the past 21 years. I have written solidly. But I have written | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
solidly in scraps. Not every day do I sit down and write a tremendous | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
block of finished prose. But I'm always fiddling around and writing | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
little bit and bobs, sometimes when I'm out and about wane my notebook | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
in a pocket it is bits and bobs. When I say I can write on the bus, I | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
don't imagine I'm writing pages of finished proseb things will occur to | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
me and very often they are the germs of things that will become pages of | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
prose. That's writing too. Do you ever think you have made too many | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
sacrifices for this? It is not a sacrifice. I feel lucky I'm able to | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
devote this amount of time to doing doing what I do. It is what I think | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
about all the time. I'm obsessed. Are you really? You seem quite | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
balanced to me? Um, well - well, I mean you are encountering me when I | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
have just finished a book, not in the middle. Maybe I wouldn't be | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
quite so balanced when I'm working. In the same way as you hit great | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
streaks. How do you hit bad streaks? Of? Of thinking - the last 50 pages | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
I have to strike. Absolutely. There was a point in this book where I | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
realised I had taken a bad turn and it was just about eight months of | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
work. I realised to really get to where you knead to go, sometimes you | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
must run through the other options. There was no way that I could have | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
gotten to that point, had I not spent those eight months. They are | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
invisible, not in the book but I needed to spend them in order to be | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
where - to get to where I was, yeah. Does that mean that in that way you | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
keep your sense of balance because you know it is not in vain? | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
Hemingway used the metaphor of - and it is very correct - of an iceberg, | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
even if you obviously only see it. With writing sometimes you only see | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
the tip. Everything else will be cut but there is the sense of weight | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
underneath the water. The real world is there, even though it's not going | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
to be in fl verbatim, which you have done -- in there. | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
But still I was lonely. It was Borris I missed. The whole impulsive | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
mess of him, gloomy, reckless, hot tempered, I a Paulingly thoughtless. | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
-- appallingly. Borris, peal pale and pasty, with his gnawed down | :44:49. | :44:56. | |
finger nails. Borris, Budding alcohol influshes f fluent curser in | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
four languages who snatched food from my plate when he felt like it | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
and who nodded off on the floor, face red like he had been slapped. | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
You want people to read your books. What do you want them to read them | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
for? Fist, I want them to have fun. Reading is no good, unless it is | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
fun. -- first. What I wallsant is - it is the one | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
quality I look for in books. It is hard to find but I love that | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
childhood quality of just that gleeful, greedy reading, can't get | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
enough of it, what is happening to these people, the breathless turning | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
of the pages. That's what I want in a book. But I also want something | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
that's well-constructed, too. I like to be able to drop down. Dicksens | :45:42. | :45:49. | |
goes so fast, like lightening, but at the same time any sentence you | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
can lift up and it is a marvel and a miracle. So, to me, I want those two | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
qualities. The two qualities of any great art. Density and speed. | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
Density and speed. You also bring secrets. Your books are about | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
secrets. I guess they are. I never thought about that. But all books | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
have miseries at their heart. Every book has some secret. There is | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
always a secret. Donna Tartt thank you very much. Thank you. That was | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
Donna Tartt talking to Kirsty. A longer version of that interview for | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
the Review Show is on the iPlayer. Tomorrow's front pages, many papers | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
are interested in a speech by the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt b | :46:33. | :46:34. | |
grandparents and old people being neglected. On the Mail, the | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
Independent and Telegraph front pages and the Daily Mirror is | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
exercised still about energy bills as is the Guardian. | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
That's all from us for tonight. Before we g as if life wasn't | :46:47. | :46:56. | |
miserable enough, Morrissy has revealed that he was once asked to | :46:57. | :47:08. | |
play the part of Dot Cotton's son in EastEnders. | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
Well, heavens to Betsy, we've only gone and found the screentest. | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
# Heavens knows I'm miserable now... # Every day is like Sunday | :47:17. | :47:39. | |
# Every day is like... # EASTENDERS THEME TUNE | :47:40. | :47:49. | |
hello the potential for widespread fog first thing on Friday. | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
A lotted of low cloud, the odd spot or two of rain. More significant | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
rain guess in the west. It will be heavy and persistent perhaps into | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
Northern Ireland. Really we are just looking at some bits and pieces of | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
rain through western fringes of Scotland. A fair amount of cloud and | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
still a chilly feel with the breeze coming from a north-westerly | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
direction. Bits and pieces of rain as kro the Lake District and to the | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
west of the Pennines. Head further east and it'll stay predominantly | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
dry, quite mild. The odd spot or two of rain but nothing significant. | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
Brightness along the south coast. The rain more persistent, albeit | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
fairly patchy, the further south and west you come. Here mild with 15 or | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
16 the high. A similar story for Wales. Overcast with showery | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
outbreaks of rain. Rain moves north overnight Friday into Saturday. It | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
tends to anchor itself across Scotland. Showers easing away from | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
the south-east corner. Blustery showers across England, Wales and | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
Northern Ireland for the start of the weekend. Let'slike at some of | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
our major cities. For Scotland and northern England, Saturday will be | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
the worst day, brighter and drier on Sunday. By contrast further south, | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
lighter showers on Saturday. The showers become more heavier and | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
perhaps frequent on Sunday. | :49:09. | :49:10. |