Browse content similar to 04/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Britain's most controversial business, Wonga, the payday loan | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
company, they have become a byword for easy money at crippling interest | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
rates. They don't like it. The idea we charge thousands of per cent | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
interest is a myth. Their Chief Operating Officer is here to explain | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
why all the negative press is wrong. And this. The radical feminist | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
group, Femen coming to a protest near you. First the clubcard, now | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
Tesco has a face-scanner, it will check your sex and age range to give | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
you tailor-made adverts. Innocuous check your sex and age range to give | :00:45. | :01:07. | |
profits out of people's financial pain is the accusation. But now one | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
of the most prominent, Wonga, are on a charm offensive. Tomorrow they | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
launch a Wonga-made movie featuring ten happy customers for whom fast | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
money, they say, has been the answer to their prayers. I will speak to | :01:23. | :01:32. | |
senior Wonga executive after this. I love cutting children's hair, they | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
enjoy having their haircut in nursery... They are the voices of | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
Wonga, according to none other than Wonga. Tomorrow the company will | :01:42. | :01:50. | |
release a film imaginatively titled, Wonga the Movie, they feature people | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
who have taken out loans and repaid them. We have been together three | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
years, last year I asked her to marry me. My | :01:59. | :02:16. | |
years, last year I asked her to out of money on a Friday night all | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
you need is a smartphone and it can be in your account in five minutes. | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
That allows some to dig themselves deeper into debt. You see them | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
advertising, so easy to get. You go on-line and state how much you want. | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
You don't notice how much interest you are paying back. I think the | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
interest rate should definitely be capped. It is an awful lot of money | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
they ask you for. Wonga's transparency makes it easy prey to | :02:41. | :02:49. | |
seizing on to the high interest rates. It is as much as 1,000%. | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
Wonga say customers don't pay that, they will by 1% day or 365% a year. | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
All too tempting say critics for under-18s. They all claim to lend to | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
them and Wonga say they are not like the other payday lenders, they need | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
to come clean the other payday lenders, they need | :03:09. | :03:27. | |
out of control. A million customers want this instant credit because | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
they can't get it from bank. Wonga says eight out of ten applicants for | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
a first loan are turned down. It is a question of whether the movie will | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
be enough to outshout the crickets. Joining me now is the Chief | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
Operating Officer of Wonga. First of all, did you realise your | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
image was so bad you had to make your own movie? Today we are | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
announcing a movie called 12 Portraits, and the director is | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
trying to dispel some of the that our image, that you refer to, has | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
out there in the UK. I think if you look at the movie, what you will see | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
is a representation of our customer base, 12 portraits, in fact, | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
representing a million active customers, you can make up your own | :04:19. | :04:37. | |
representing a million active was paid their money back on term | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
quickly. That is not the case for your customers? Gary first of all | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
had complete editorial independence over what he made. Chose the | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
customers himself. We gave him a database, selected them. We have a | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
million active customers. Can I just take you back on that, free hand, he | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
who pays the piper plays the tune, that is first of all, if Gary Tarn | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
had produced a film that showed somebody defaulting on their Wonga | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
loan having perhaps to pay 375% credit, getting another loan to pay | :05:11. | :05:19. | |
off a Wonga loan, destitute on the Pavement, would you be happy for | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
that to be on the film? There are 12 portraits and one has defaulted. If | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
you look at interest on fees on our site on Wonga, included with one of | :05:29. | :05:30. | |
those is site on Wonga, included with one of | :05:31. | :05:47. | |
the voice of the silent majority, the people who use the service is | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
not being heard. The trouble is if you present too rosy a picture it | :05:52. | :06:00. | |
Encourages people to take out that loan. This is Liz Matthew this is | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
what happened to her. I got into a vicious cycle where I had four loans | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
and couldn't pay any of them back. How much was the original loan? The | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
original was ?300 and I owe now ?2,000. I was very frightened and | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
worried thinking how can I pay it back. You can't sleep at night. Now, | :06:23. | :06:31. | |
Liz Matthews she had a first Wonga loan and a second one. What were the | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
affordability checks. You say you do them but she got herself into | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
terrible trouble? I can't comment them but she got herself into | :06:39. | :06:58. | |
second was ?400 and then she got into trouble. The thing is with Liz | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
Matthews you don't require any documents as proof of what they say | :07:06. | :07:14. | |
is true?. We look at 8,000 thesis -- pieces of data. We look at how they | :07:15. | :07:22. | |
navigate up to the website, if they slide up to the right they may not | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
pay us back. Is it an on-line service? It is. That check can be | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
made quickly. In five minutes? We mustn't confuse speed with accuracy. | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
I was going to say the thing about Liz Matthews, I spoke to her today | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
and she admitted to me that she had put down that she was employed on | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
both occasions. And she wasn't employed. OK. So therefore she | :07:47. | :07:48. | |
received money You have no way of checking that? We | :07:49. | :08:10. | |
have a lot of ways of checking that Kirsty. Not with her? Liz may be a | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
case that I don't right now have the details in front of me. What we're | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
here to talk about is that there are a million customers of whom the | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
vast, vast majority are happy, and their voice has not been heard. And | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
they are being misrepresented as people who are like Liz as all poor | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
and vulnerable and getting themselves into a spiral of debt. | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
That is simply not true. It is the case that about seven. 5% either | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
have rollovers that cost a lot of money -- 75% either have rollovers | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
that cost them a lot of money. Those people are often desperate and will | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
say things to get money when they can ill-afford to pay it back? I | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
would not agree they are desperate. The reason I'm actually here and | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
sitting here and made that film is because I | :09:00. | :09:18. | |
sitting here and made that film is and hops of thousands of others, the | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
second thing I'm surprised about is the reaction of the media and other | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
commentators calling out the exceptions like Liz and assuming | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
everyone is like that. When we talk about seven. 5% rollovers and | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
defaults that is substantial. Are you confident that customers know | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
exactly the consequences of taking out a Wonga loan? I'm very confident | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
that we show everything as clearly and transparently as we possibly | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
can. The price is marked very clearly on the sliders, the terms | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
under which people borrow from us are marked very, very clearly. The | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
fact that 90% of customers would recommend us to a friend is evidence | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
they agree with us. Talking about the implication, I want you to | :10:09. | :10:10. | |
explain this, this the implication, I want you to | :10:11. | :10:28. | |
months, lenders will immediately automatically reject the | :10:29. | :10:30. | |
application, or ask lots of questions about why that person can | :10:31. | :10:32. | |
afford a mortgage now when they were clearly living from hand-to-mouth | :10:33. | :10:34. | |
recently. In order to address that problem, because people don't | :10:35. | :10:36. | |
appreciate the issues, I think it would be very sensible if payday | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
loan lenders were required by the regulator to state on all their | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
literature that taking out a payday loan may prejudice your ability to | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
get a mortgage. That is a senior mortgage broker. And even if your | :10:49. | :10:58. | |
customers are happy and pay back, the very issue of taking out a Wonga | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
loan may impact on your ability to get a good mortgage? I can't comment | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
on other financial institutions' policies, the regulator will decide | :11:05. | :11:16. | |
if that is a right response. He's a senior mortgage broker, he will say | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
in terms of credit rating if you wake a Wonga loan you | :11:20. | :11:20. | |
in terms of credit rating if you with this, it is about transparency, | :11:21. | :11:42. | |
you claim that Wonga is transparent. It is a fact that if you take out a | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
loan from a payday loan company, when you go to put your mortgage | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
application in, and goodness me Help To Buy is tough enough, that it may | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
impact on your ability to get a good mortgage. It would be very simple to | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
put that rider on your website, why don't you do it? Because, as I have | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
explained, I don't know that is the policy of every single financial | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
institution, as your colleague there says, or as your interviewee says, | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
if the regulator thinks that is an appropriate thing to do they will do | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
that. We are going through with the FT reviewing our business and the | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
FCA the same. I'm sure they will tighten up practices across the | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
whole of the industry and deal with those things as necessary. This is | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
interesting, the regulator is looking at you, we say you | :12:30. | :12:47. | |
interesting, the regulator is there, that we could do or others | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
could do depending on their opinion. What we see is there is a huge | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
Misper exception over the myths about Wonga out there. We are trying | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
to show that actually that silent majority of people who haven't been | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
heard and commentators who haven't taken and borrowed money for a week | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
or ten days, are making commentary about our customers, we think that | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
is very unfair. That is not commentary about your customer, what | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
this mortgage broker is saying the evidence of having payday loan could | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
impact on the chances of getting a decent mortgage. If you go and check | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
that tomorrow, and that proves to be true, put it on your website now? | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
Kirsty, as I said, two or three times now, I don't know what the | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
financial institutions' policies are. Will you find out | :13:37. | :13:58. | |
financial institutions' policies about mis s about -- miss | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
Perceptions about customer, it may affect something in their future | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
life and they are poor and vulnerable, the evidence I see is it | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
is not the case in the majority of cases. We have looked at our | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
customer base and invited a vulnerable person to exam that. I'm | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
not suggesting that vulnerable people should be told that it might | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
be difficult to get a good mortgage, I'm saying that anybody who takes | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
out a payday loan, who rents a wonderful house and may have to buy | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
may be impacted by a payday loan. Not people who are destitute, people | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
looking for a mortgage. If it is the case if you check what that | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
gentleman says tomorrow morning and find it to be true, in the pursuit | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
of transpornly will you put it on find it to be true, in the pursuit | :14:50. | :15:09. | |
for 17 days, it is not exactly a very long period of time. If they | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
don't pay that back, of course that may impact their underlying credit | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
rating. And what we think is... Even if they pay it back it will impact, | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
that is what I'm saying. This was a senior Kensington mortgage brokers, | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
a senior figure in the industry saying it is not whether you pay it | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
back on time it is the fact they had payday loan? I ups that, there are | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
many other commentaries on our business, such the price you | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
referred to in the introduction, which are myths. We want people to | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
understand that we are sharing all of our statistics and have a look at | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
the film, our product is fair and transparent, and those customers are | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
intelligent people, who in my opinion represent the average person | :15:58. | :15:59. | |
in the UK. opinion represent the average person | :16:00. | :16:19. | |
is the maxim that Andy Coulson is conducting his defence case. While | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
his co-defendants chose to remain silent as the prosecution finished | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
outlining his case. Coulson instructed counsel to deliver an | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
opening statement, insisting he was never part of an agreement to hack | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
phones, no matter what others were doing on his watch at the News of | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
the World. This report contains flash photography. | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
If the paper he had once edited was still around to report Coulson's | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
trial, it might have come up with a headline like this. This wasn't Andy | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
Coulson in the centre but his council, Timothy Langdale, who broke | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
with normal procedure and made a speech to the jury, before the | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
prosecution had even presented its case. Mr Langer Langdale said he was | :17:02. | :17:10. | |
Far from being complicit in phone because he wanted to | :17:11. | :17:35. | |
Far from being complicit in phone hacking, Mr Langdale told the jury | :17:36. | :17:44. | |
that Andy Coulson had had his phone hacked by the private investigator, | :17:45. | :17:45. | |
Glenn Mulcaire. As for the evidence so far suggested | :17:46. | :18:05. | |
by the prosecution that Andy Coulson must have known what his reporters | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
were allegedly up to. It was said that as editor he faced a blizzard | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
of e-mails and couldn't possibly know the source for every story | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
appearing in the news of the world. In any sense, | :18:22. | :18:38. | |
appearing in the news of the world. evidence, Andy Coulson said that | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
anyone at the News of the World had deleted the message. Something the | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
prosecution has already agreed. There was talk about Prax Blackhawk, | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
the alleged conspiracy between Rebekah Brooks and Charley Brook and | :18:52. | :19:01. | |
Mark Hanna, to conspire to hide information from the police. | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
Andy Coulson told the police that Rebekah Brooks would be next and if | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
she was arrested they would have powers to search her houses. On the | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
day that Rebekah Brooks was arrested the police were told staff who were | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
working for her removed a back from her Oxfordshire home and taken to a | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
London home. As the bag was dropped, a member of her security staff | :19:29. | :19:29. | |
texted a colleague It was alleged today that Mrs Brooks | :19:30. | :20:01. | |
instructed her PA, Cheryl Carter, to remove seven boxes of Mrs Brooks's | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
notebooks from the News International archive. The notebooks | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
have never been seen again. All the defendants deny the charges, the | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
prosecution continues with its case tomorrow. The feminist protest | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
group, Femen, founded in Ukraine and head quartered in France where it | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
has its largest membership has announced it is setting up in | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
Britain. The movement's trade mark is the topless ambush, protests | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
against dictatorships and religion, they have a record of high-profile | :20:39. | :20:40. | |
actions, including they have a record of high-profile | :20:41. | :21:00. | |
it becomes a strength. Our body becomes our weapon. It is a naked | :21:01. | :21:10. | |
warrior. They call themselves sex-tremists, they rage against | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
patriarchy, religion, homophobia and authoritarianism. They are offensive | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
wherever they go. Femen have upset Christians, Muslims and models. But | :21:20. | :21:29. | |
not Vladimir Putin! They say it is war. It looks like theatre. So where | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
better for Femen to base themselves than France. The home of street | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
protest, revolution and a topless lady liberty. I have come to Femen's | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
European headquarters here in Paris, it is also where they have their | :21:49. | :21:50. | |
boot camp. Where they train up their it is also where they have their | :21:51. | :22:10. | |
morally. Definitely you can't do such actions like we do, attacking | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
Putin or climbing up on the top of a building in Davos on the economic | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
forum where all the leaders of the Government are inside, you have to | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
be well prepared. Inna Shevchenko is Femen's leader. She fled Kiev after | :22:27. | :22:36. | |
taking a chainsaw to a crucifix, she said it was in support of Pussy | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
Riot's protest against the Russian Orthodox Church. It won her many | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
enemies, it had been a cross in memory of some of Stalin's victims. | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
In France she has been given asylum from arrest. Femen say they are | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
redefining nudity, breasts will not hear our slogans. | :23:01. | :23:25. | |
In this exercise they are role playing a confrontation with the | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
police, Femen are now fighting in nine countries. Gisela Perez is from | :23:30. | :23:37. | |
Mexico. When I say naked war, when I tell my Government that they are | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
dictator, when I tell them that I do not agree with them I stop becoming, | :23:42. | :23:50. | |
I have a political will, that we go to prison for that. | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
So where does Femen fit into the story of feminism. They are hardly | :23:56. | :24:05. | |
the first feminists to be vilified. Mary Wolstencrft was called a high | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
Ena, Mary Wolstencrft was called a high | :24:12. | :24:30. | |
everything that has gone before. We are continuing something other women | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
started before. What doesn't help is the revelation that Femen was set up | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
by a man. The accusation is there are man's fantasy of what feminism | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
should look like. When Femen bare their breasts are they really | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
challenging the system or conforming to it? They say they are against the | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
sexualisation and objectcation of women, but when they take their tops | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
off, a lot of people look at them and think they look like sex objects | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
and they have become the stereotype. Do you want to look sexy? Exactly, | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
we are using what they made us and we're turning it against them. If | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
you want I could say that Femen activists are like forcing Barbie to | :25:20. | :25:21. | |
fight. Our Barbie "lock you lock you what"? Femen have | :25:22. | :25:41. | |
tried to alie themselves with the women of the Arab Spring, but many | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
think they are Islam phobic. Do you worry that you cause distress and | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
people are alarmed at what you do? This is also the aim of activism. It | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
is to make people react and realise things. To create a sparkle in | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
people's minds. We are not against Islam specifically, we are against | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
all religions, all the institutions. But can these arguments ever get | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
through? When their tactics are so uncompromising, is anyone listening | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
above the shouting? When I'm waking up a spend two to read some news, | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
and I read and I check what happened during the last 24 hours, maybe 60% | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
of all that during the last 24 hours, maybe 60% | :26:32. | :26:52. | |
I think that's enough to ask why we do what we do. Femen are now | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
recruiting in the UK, they haven't ruled out breaking into Buckingham | :26:59. | :27:00. | |
Palace, and yes, taking their tops off in front of the Queen. | :27:01. | :27:08. | |
The founder of a new tracking device has described it like the sci-fi | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
movie Minority Report in which Tom Cruise's eyes are screened and | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
advertising is tailored to his profile. That film was out in 2002 | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
and the future is here. At least on 450 Tesco petrol forecourts, soon as | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
you wait at the till your face will be scanned for genteder and age, and | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
hey presto different ads will appear depending on your data. What if you | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
think it is one more invasion of your privacy and you have to stick | :27:41. | :27:59. | |
think it is one more invasion of scanners which recognise his | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
features. Now that technology is all but here. As our frame-by-frame | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
homage makes clear. Now we're all about consumer | :28:08. | :28:23. | |
technology on this programme, goodness knows, and yet, there are | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
grounds for scepticism, the idea that this scanner could look into my | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
eyes and say anything conclusive at all, based on my weekly shop of Pot | :28:33. | :28:40. | |
Noodles and alco-pop, it is a bit far fetched. But is it though. These | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
shoppers are profiled, divided by gender and into age groups. One | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
major gender and into age groups. One | :28:52. | :29:11. | |
information you put out there. Advertisers will want to use that. | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
It is out there for them to play with. In France they are already | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
exploiting the information we put out there. Monitors read your store | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
loyalty cards, this triggers localised advertising, personalised | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
messages, instantly sent to hoardings as you pass them. It is | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
only a trial so far. Does that sound irritating to you, even the people | :29:37. | :29:45. | |
behind it think so. Maybe you buy milk and we can identify if you need | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
milk. It is really annoying, but it is the | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
future, and you can't miss this. It is really annoying, but it is the | :29:52. | :30:20. | |
consumers want and will put up with. More people said they would stop | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
transacting or doing business with a company if they thought it was | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
harvesting their data without their permission and selling it on to | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
other third parties. They put that ahead of things like environmental | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
damage or huge fat cat salaries. So it cull is something that makes | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
people very anxious. Again I think it is because this sort of sense of | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
things being done behind my back, with my information that really | :30:46. | :30:57. | |
upsets people. Any other objections? Form an orderly queue. It is when we | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
think personal relationships turn into state power relationships. We | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
have a really serious problem. It has already happened in a number of | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
countries with mobile data. The Government in this | :31:11. | :31:29. | |
retailers and others rely on us not noticing or shrugging and looking | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
the other way. In the supermarket of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. | :31:33. | :31:42. | |
I'm joined now by the man behind Tesco Crabcard, he runs -- Tesco | :31:43. | :31:51. | |
Clubcard, he runs a company that brings better information to | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
advertisers. We will come on to social media in a little while. | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
Let's deal with the forecourt issue. It is simply on the question of one | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
of three age brackets and gender, what is the problem? It teaters on | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
the brink of unethical. The issue is do you want this to happen to you? | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
And have you given your permission for that to happen to you? Your | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
personal image is personal information, it is being | :32:21. | :32:39. | |
personal image is personal think it would be possible, if I'm | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
approaching the till in Tescos and I don't want that to happen I have the | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
right to say please switch that off? Yes, ideally you would have the | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
right to say that in advance. Before you even get there? How will it | :32:51. | :32:58. | |
actually work? We had in-store television five years ago. | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
Interestingly customers didn't like it and we turned it off. You don't | :33:02. | :33:10. | |
work for Tesco's now? No. I think Anna is right it is about consent. | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
You don't approve of this? I'm not saying that, I don't think it has | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
been thought through fully in terms of actually thinking what customers | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
want rather than what you can do. Technology enables so many things to | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
be done, just because you can do it, should you do it? The idea of | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
targeting advertising at the petrol pump based on the make of car you | :33:30. | :33:31. | |
turn up in, for pump based on the make of car you | :33:32. | :33:51. | |
is not. Absolutely not. You can from the face you give your credit card | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
to that till, you have a number plate in the car, you can profile | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
that person exactly. Three pieces of information can tell a lot about | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
that person. And it is not acceptable and it is completely out | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
of proportion. Let's look at on-line now then and using social media | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
better to tailor your interest in certain goods. This is very much | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
Clive's territory. Do you approve of that? Well personally I don't | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
approve of that. I think if people say yes, you can do that to me, | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
that's fine. The problem is that profiling is a default option. | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
People are profiled unless they opt out. They usually don't. It is | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
normal behaviour. You use Twitter data, would people | :34:42. | :34:42. | |
normal behaviour. You use Twitter is your choice. You bare your soul, | :34:43. | :35:01. | |
you have to be prepared to give up everything? You don't have to give | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
up everything at all. You can choose if you wish to not opt in, you can | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
choose if you want to, it is a consent-based model. I think it is | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
about the consumer having control. It always has been. They are the | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
successful businesses. The problem is we don't have control, there is a | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
lot of evidence that we do not have it. People are getting profiled | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
without knowing what's happening to them. They are at the moment, of | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
course? How do you, you presumably do have a mobile phone. I do. Your | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
phone company knows where you are at any moment in time, will that be the | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
find of information to second guess what you are going to do and what | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
you might buy next? Geolocation data is very sensitive data. The | :35:51. | :35:51. | |
companies that have not selling your perm data, they are | :35:52. | :36:12. | |
selling aggregate statistics to help the retailers understand the foot | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
fall. In ten years time you will identify somebody, the Iris and the | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
passport, identifying someone on the street with a camera? You could do | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
that today, and the question is are you responsible. That is the asset | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
test. I think the legislation we have is far behind what technology | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
can do. Thank you very much indeed. The leading British scientist, was | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
ejected from his job as chairman of the Government's advisory council on | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
the Ms. Use of drugs four years ago has been warned an international | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
prize for standing up for science. It is given by nature -- Nature | :36:52. | :37:01. | |
Magazine, for standing up in the face of hostility and | :37:02. | :37:19. | |
Magazine, for standing up in the gained the prize, this is our | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
science editor first. When science meets politics it can be a classic | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
clash of culture, how the Government deals with legal highs has been one | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
such flash point since the summer. When the Government announced a ban | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
on the herbal stimulate Cat, against scientific advice. | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
In the past politicians have traditionally turned to science most | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
especially in times of war. Though it was Winston Churchill who | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
famously said scientific advisers should be on tap not on top. Many | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
scientists believe that going along with that view would be too meek and | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
science advice is more than setting out the spectrum of views, but | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
making sure that policy is based on the best balance of evidence. Not | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
just in war but across a whole range of pressing and | :38:12. | :38:30. | |
to climate change. Professor David Nutt was made chairman of the | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
advisory council on the misuse of drugs, he had a number of run-ins | :38:35. | :38:42. | |
with politicians, and in 2009 he compared using ecstacy with horse | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
riding, he was then sacked by the Home Secretary Alan Johnson, after | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
saying Government classification of cannabis was at odds with scientific | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
measures of actual harm. Professor Colin Blakemore was one of the | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
judges for today's award and has worked with Professor Nutt in the | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
past. He said the whole fair had lasting impact, a set of principles | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
on the way scientific advice should be troted. Science underpins | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
everything we do, increasingly so. Everything from what you mobile | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
phone you choose to whether we are going to tackle global warming. | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
Increasingly the going to tackle global warming. | :39:22. | :39:41. | |
important is that the clarity of high-quality scientific advice is | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
available to everybody. This woman advising Alan Johnson at | :39:46. | :39:53. | |
the Home Office at the time of the David Nutt row. He thinks Churchill | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
got it right? Scientists have a high regard for themselves and those on | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
Government committees have higher regard for themselves. Our | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
experience under the last Labour Government was give the advice by | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
all means, but don't think because you have given the advice that | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
Government has to accept it. And if Government doesn't accept it for | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
whatever reason, that doesn't mean it is a challenge to your authority. | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
It doesn't mean you are undermined, all it means is thanks for what you | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
have advised but in this case no thanks. But many Government advisers | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
feel their first duty is to speak out to the tax-payers whose cash | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
often funds scientific research, not the politician | :40:32. | :40:49. | |
often funds scientific research, not you sacked? I do, since then I have | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
realised there is greater problems as a result of some of the failure | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
to be logical about drugs. Particularly it has been clear in | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
the last few years how medical research is impeded by the drug | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
laws. The laws we put in place to stop people using drugs are stopping | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
scientists using drugs and developing new treatments. Would you | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
say it in the same way as you said in 2009 or would you be judicious. | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
We haven't moved on, I think I would be more forthright. We have mored | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
backwards -- moved backwards. Do you accept that there has to be a | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
calibration by politics in terms of what you say, they have to take into | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
t Times of drug abuse and the politics essentially? I would say if | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
you have good scientific evidence and a policy is not working | :41:41. | :41:59. | |
you have good scientific evidence harmful than LSD, would you | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
decriminalise it? I'm not about that, it is about a more equal | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
playing field to the drugs we suffer from, alcohol and tobacco. You | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
wouldn't decriminalise Dan business? I certainly would. What about | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
ecstacy? Any drugs less harmful than alcohol should be decriminalised. So | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
LSD? I would decriminalise it, as well. I don't think that | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
criminalising people using drugs is any use at all. As we have seen from | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
other countries where we have seen benefits decriminalisation. The | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
herbal CAT is a controversial one? The banning of Cat is a ridiculous | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
one. It does terrible damage? It does no damage. We only banned it | :42:50. | :42:51. | |
because the Americans have does no damage. We only banned it | :42:52. | :43:09. | |
pricing, the way that they treat alcohol, what has gone wrong? They | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
just basically lost courage at the last minute. They started off making | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
the right statement, minimum pricing, it will work and reduce | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
harms to particularly heavy users and then probably due to pressure | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
from the drinks industry they backed off. Do you think that will have | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
long-term damage? Of course it will, alcohol is the leading cause of | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
death in men in this country between t ages of 16-54, minimum pricing | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
would have reduced deaths by 25%. Let's talk about cigarettes, | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
originally there was plan to clear all branding, to clear all | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
advertising from packets, that has now changed? That would have worked | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
and the Australian experience says that is working you take away the | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
glamour of the cigarette. Here are the two things you think are big | :44:01. | :44:01. | |
killers, the two things you think are big | :44:02. | :44:21. | |
are looking at are simplistic ways of appealing to the population and | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
voters. Voters know they are wrong. If the voters knew they were wrong | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
the voters would do the right things themselves they would take less | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
alcohol and smoke fewer cigarettes? They are doing that to some | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
excellent. Let's be clear, every taxpayer pays ?1,000 in tax every | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
year simply to allow us service the level of drinking through health | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
services and policing. There is an enormous tax burden on people | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
because we don't have minimum pricing. The on the other hand | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
people would say free will and make up your on mind, and what you are | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
saying is patronising for people who should be able to decide for | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
themselves? The whole thing about drinking alcohol is to take away | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
your self-control. That is not the only reason? It is one of the | :45:11. | :45:29. | |
the scientists and the Government not getting the message across, you | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
are out of Government now, and the scientists in Government are they | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
supine? I think that Government scientists are in a difficult | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
position, because mostly they don't get listened to. Are they being | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
supine or risk their jobs? I don't see anyone being as forceful as I | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
was. Thanks all for tonight, Emily is here tomorrow. We leave you with | :45:54. | :46:02. | |
a Berlin singing Bronski Boy when a passer-by felt he could do it | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
better. # Turn away | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
# Run away. # Run away | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
# Turn away # Run away | :46:20. | :46:21. | |
# Turn # Run away | :46:22. | :46:41. | |
# Crying to | :46:42. | :46:43. |