Browse content similar to 04/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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If you live longer you will have to work longer, tomorrow the Chancellor | :00:09. | :00:18. | |
of the Exchequer will I Austrailians nonce -- announce another rise in | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
the able of those who collect a state pension. It won't happen for a | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
while but it is already worrying today's pensioners. There are a lot | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
of people you hear them say I want to retire in the next five years, I | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
can't wait. Must be a horrible thing to look forward to, really. The | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
people's peer accused of making off with ?600,000 of charity funds. To | :00:42. | :00:50. | |
be accused by a charity of mitking them for ?625,000 that is breath | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
taking. The MP who has told the world of his mental problems talks | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
to us about what he hopes he has achieved. And the wounded soldiers | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
who set off at lunchtime today to row the Atlantic. | :01:04. | :01:17. | |
Now for how long should a person be expected to work for a living? | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
According to well-placed sources the Chancellor of the Exchequer is going | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
to suggest tomorrow that some of us aren't going to be entitled to a | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
state pension until we're 69 or 70. That might not bother Bruce Forsyth, | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
but it sure as hell will irk a lot of other people. Gorge will announce | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
it in the Autumn Statement tomorrow. We have had something of what is | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
inevitably called a "sneak preview". The out come years are not what they | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
were, as the parade of older rockers still packing them in and putting on | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
a show well past the state pension age shows. 60 is the new 40, or | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
something like that. Chas and Dave, picking life on the tour bus over | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
life with a bus pass. They have even got a new album out, it is called | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
That's What Happens, if you are interested. It is according to what | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
you do in life. Me and Dave have elected to do what we love doing any | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
way and we would, if we weren't playing professionally we would be | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
playing semiprofessionally doing exactly what we are doing. So we're | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
lucky that we are doing something that we love to do and we get paid | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
for it. There is a lot of people and you hear them talking, they can't | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
wait until they retire, it must be a depressing thing to keep on saying | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
that. There are a lot of people around that are living for the day | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
when they retire. That's terrible for start. But I do feel sorry for | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
them if they do put up the pension age. It will be, they are not going | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
to find it very appealing. Back in 1945 a man aged 65 could expect to | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
live another 12 years. A woman, slightly longer at 15, skip forward | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
to people turning 65 in 2014 and men can expect to live another 22 years | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
and women another 24, and the projections are going up. By 2043 it | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
is expected men will live another 25 years and women another 28. I think | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
we have really been living in a very unreal situation to imagine that | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
more and more people could stop work at younger and younger ages and some | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
how have enough money to live on or even be supported by a smaller | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
number of younger people. That has just not been realistic. The process | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
of increasing the state pension age was begun by the last Labour | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
Government. They firstly introduced a timetable to equalise ages for men | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
and women, and then ramp up that age, firstly to 66, then to 67, and | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
68 over the coming decades. What the coalition did when they came in was | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
accelerate that timetable. They have also introduced legislation that's | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
going through parliament right now that would see a sort of automatic | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
rise in state pension age as life expectancy increases. Roughly it | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
means that we should spend two thirds of our adult life in work, | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
around one third in retirement. The Chancellor is expected to announce | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
one of those changes due to extra life expectancy tomorrow that the | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
state pension age should go up to 69 from somewhere around the late | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
2040s, but by then will an arbitary pension date mean anything at all? I | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
think in five or ten years time, if you go to somebody who is, let as | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
say having their 65th birthday, it will not be automatic that they will | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
say, OK, I'm not going to work any more. There will be more of the how | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
much work am I going to be doing, what kind of work might I be doing? | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
Than oh, I have got my pension I'm not going to do anything. George | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
Osborne discussing tomorrow's Autumn Statement with scientists, science | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
research we are told will be getting more money as a result of that | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
statement. The question how much will pushing up the state pension | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
age affect the date at which George Osborne has to retire from being | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
Chancellor? The Government's view is that voters will welcome and reward | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
politicians for being straight with them. Here now is Alan Sugar's | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
69-year-old right hand man, Hewer and Emma Soames editor at large from | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
Saga magazine. This is obviously being driven by a financial need in | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
the Treasury rather than it a question of being socially desirable | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
s that wise, do you think? Let me tell you that I have looked into the | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
subject very carefully, having made two documentaries with my friend | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
Margaret Mountford about working into old age. I think that | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
inevitably, let me tell you any new child born today will live, or a | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
third of them will live to be 100, and any child born today by our | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
estimates will not get a state pension until they are 77. | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
Inevitably somebody has to pay for this. My argument, my strong belief | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
and fury is that whilst you and I may well have been well paid and had | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
enough money to set aside for our old age, there are many, many | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
working men and women who haven't had that opportunity, and yet they | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
were going to have to work so hard late into life that we have got to | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
find a way whereby perhaps through taxation it is affordable. So the | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
poor old young have to pay to support the old again. Their dads | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
and their mums. What is your solution? Exactly, but the fact is | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
that they are going to want to be able to work on. I think one of the | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
great iniquities at the moment is that people are, you know, put on to | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
the scrap heap of life, if you like at 65. When some of them would like | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
to be, to work on. Some of them might, but if you are a builder's | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
labourer, it is a different proposition at the age of 66 to 26? | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
That is where the flexibility comes into it. But for the thousands and | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
millions of desk jockies working on to 67, 68 right now is very | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
desirable. Particularly when people dare to look at the pensions they | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
have scraped together. Which with current interest rates is very | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
minimal. Emma is right, and also in 10 or 20 years time advanced in | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
health and medication and so forth, you know, one will be able to work | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
longer. You are also right about the desk jockies as you call them, | :07:46. | :07:54. | |
people who have had he issed dentary -- sedintary lives, my plea is for | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
those ditch diggers, farm labourers, scaffolders, roofers, and in the | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
programme we made for the BBC, we went up to Preston and looked at | :08:07. | :08:14. | |
brick hairs up on the scaffolding up the ladders at age 74. As a | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
civilised country we can't allow that. Presumably because they wanted | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
to do that? No, because we tested it as a situation we invented it. Who | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
would want their father at that age to be up on a roof in the snow in | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
March or February. Do you think people have an en itlement to decide | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
when they should stop supporting themselves then? That is a tricky | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
question, it comes back to Emma's point about those people who have | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
had a more easy life, like I or you have had in terms of the physicality | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
of it? Given that people in physical occupations should certainly be | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
allowed, but it should be sort of encouraged to retire earlier, but | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
everybody else, you know, has got to earn the right to stop working. I'm | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
of the last cohort of women who were able to stop work and pull a | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
pension, a state pension when I was 60. My mother is 91. So let us | :09:15. | :09:23. | |
assume that due to fabulous medicine I will probably live older than my | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
mother. That means I will be pulling a state pension, or I could be for | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
more than 30 years. I mean that is a big, big ask of any Government to | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
support that. It is not Government it is your fellow citizens? Exactly. | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
People have to pay taxes to keep old people alive? Exactly, what I'm | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
saying is it has to go up. You mean the age at which the thing is paid? | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
Exactly. What about my earlier question to Nick, which is have | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
people got a right to decide that at some point in their older age they | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
do not need to support themselves? Yeah, but then at that point I think | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
they have got to recognise that they then will suffer financially. Right, | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
if you were now say 25, 35 years old, how would you be living your | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
life differently to the way that you lived it, do you think, when you | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
were that age? I think putting money aside as furiously as possible in | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
order to make provision for one's old age. I couldn't imagine being 40 | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
when I was younger and never mind 60, it happens? Did you not put | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
money aside as a young man. No. I don't want pensions advice! I did | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
because I would be horrified as a young man to think I was putting | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
myself at risk. I think the young people have got to think my word I | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
have to start making provision now, absolutely. The problem is hence | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
pensions have had such a bad press with the cost of the administration, | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
the scandals, the low interest rates, people think they would | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
rather do anything other than put money into a pension. Real estate, | :11:08. | :11:15. | |
their parents hopefully leaving them some money. They are certainly not | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
looking at saving on a regular basis. On nearly the ex-continuity | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
that they should. I think one of the big problems that currently we have | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
is youngsters from what I hear in the papers are blowing their wage at | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
the weekend because there is no point in trying to save up for that | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
wretched deposit for instance, because houses are unaffordable. Who | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
can lay your hands on ?40,000. They are unaffordable because old people | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
keep on sitting in them, smugly watching their value increase I | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
don't think so, it is because rich foreigners such as the Greeks and | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
Chinese come in and buy up all the real estate. Or there is a shortage | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
of real estate, whatever it is. The point is youngsters cannot lay their | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
hands on the money therefore the thought of saving is completely | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
foreign to them, they don't bother. Thank you very much both of you. | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
With us now is staved Grossman, who is more of what -- David Grossman, | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
who is more of what the Chancellor ordered. What is going to say | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
tomorrow? The Treasury confidently predict that the Chancellor has a | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
message that lays out an attractive story about how the economy is | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
recovering and how they are looking it in. How they have done that by | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
taking tough decision, tough decisions like raising the state | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
pension age. There was some difficult news today that they got | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
out early which is about cutting departmental spending. Non-protected | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
departmental spending being cut even further, an extra billion pounds a | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
year for the next three years, these are in unprotected departmental | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
spending. Explain what that means? Some departments have been protected | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
and will be protected from these cuts, like health, schools, aid, | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
local Government, HMRC and the Security Services. That will hit, it | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
will mean that places are hit will be the Home Office, the Department | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
of Work and Pensions, the defence budget will be protected, we have | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
given some leeway to carry forward underspending from previous years | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
going forward. I should say that these savings, or these cuts are | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
because the Treasury say that the department have been very good at | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
saving money, and have underspent, and what they are going to do is | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
lock those underspendings going forward and adding up to ?3 billion. | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
Labour say it is warm words and no action on the economy, expect a big | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
ding dong on all of this tomorrow. How can taking another ?3 billion | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
out of the economy be nothing but warm words? Well, how can it be | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
nothing other than warm words, what they are trying to say is the | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
Government hasn't done nearly enough to get the economy moving in the | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
direction it should be by this stage. Thank you very much. If you | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
should find yourself given a seat in the House of Lords, you will be | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
entitled to be addressed as the "Right Honourable Lord or Lady". One | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
of these honourable figures is accused to helping himself to | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
?600,000 of charity funds. He's Lord Bhatia, one of Tony Blair's called | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
"Peoples' Peers", he has already been suspended once from the House | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
of Lords for a rather too free and easy approach to expenses. But this | :14:31. | :14:39. | |
is different. This is Lord Bhatia OBE, one of the called "Peoples' | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
Peers", introduced to the House of Lords by Tony Blair in 2001. A | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
merchant banker, a million air strikes a philanthropist. But just | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
three years ago he was caught up in the parliamentary expenses scandal, | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
accused of fiddling the taxpayer out of tens of thousands of pounds by | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
claiming for a second home he didn't live in. He was suspended from the | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
House of Lords for eight months and had to repay ?27,000 to the public | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
purse. BBC Newsnight has seen evidence suggesting that Lord Bhatia | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
could once more be in trouble over abuse of his parliamentary expenses. | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
But there is more. He also stands accused of allegedly mishandling | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of charity money to fund his | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
own lifestyle. It is breath-taking. We're sadly used to expenses | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
fiddling on what most people would think was a large scale in the | :15:39. | :15:47. | |
Lords. But to be accused by a charity of milking them for | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
?625,000, that is breath-taking. Could it really be that Lord Bhatia | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
hadn't learned his lessons after his high-profile suspension from the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
House. To find out I had to get right inside the charity making the | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
allegations, the Ethnic Minority Foundation, or EMF. The EMF brings | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
in around a million pounds a year, mostly from its property portfolio, | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
and usually spends it on good causes in India and in the UK. Former MP, | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
John Barrett is a trustee, and became involved with EMF in 2012. He | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
soon realised that all was not well. It looked like there was a cash | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
crisis approaching, that shouldn't have been happening, because there | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
should have been plenty of money in the bank. It became clear that far | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
more mon had been going 0 out in the charity that could be -- going out | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
of the charity that could be explained. I went to the charity's | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
office to meet the man who first raised the alarm about the state of | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
EMF's finances. Those miles are claimed here, you know. Chartered | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
accountant here took over as treasurer in 2012? I asked the | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
accountant to give me this and that, I see a transfer here and there, and | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
I knew what was happening then, and I was shocked. My trust and respect | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
for him as a Lord had withered away. Lord Bhatia had been chairman of the | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
charity for ten years in an unpaid role until 2009. But when the | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
charity's chief executive left to monitor its projects in India, Lord | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
Bhatia said he would look after things in his absence. But Lord | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
Bhatia's idea of looking after things was not what the trustees | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
expected or sanctioned. He was using the charity to run his own really. | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
That was wrong. That's not right. I mean I wouldn't claim anything at | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
all, you know, from charity, even when I come here for mileage, I | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
don't claim it, it is not necessarily. The trustees confronted | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
Lord Bhatia in December last year, he immediately resigned. But they | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
discovered major problems in the books, it was time to bring in a | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
team of forensic accountants. It was only then the trustees became aware | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
of the scale of the alleged mismanagement. The charity has | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
passed a draft copy of the accountant's report to Newsnight. | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
According to this Lord Bhatia owes EMF more than ?600,000. The thing | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
they are most exercised about is having to foot the bill for Lord | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
Bhatia's personal chauffeur. He was paid in excess of ?40,000 a year. | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
But last January, Lord Bhatia wrote to him and enclosed a cheque in an | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
apparent ?12,000 loan, yet on the same day awarded him a ?12,000 pay | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
increase, effectively making it a gift from the charity. And he did | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
this in the same week as asking the rest of the work force to take a | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
voluntary pay cut. The for enIing accountant's report says this | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
unauthorised gift to the driver could amount to theft by Lord | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
Bhatia. Next the charity claim his contract of employment was never | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
agreed by the board, was not even done on charity headed notepaper and | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
is invalid. Its legitimacy is further challenged, since a letter | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
enclosing the purports to be assigned by a chairman only assigned | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
to that position six months after the letter was signed. Even if the | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
contract is valid, the charity says the amount was excessive. It was a | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
great shock to me to discover that Lord Bhatia was receiving a salary | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
of ?100,000. It was greater shock to me to discover that his personal | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
driver had been put on to the payroll of the charity. He is also | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
said to have put a relative and long-term associate on the charity | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
payroll, when they are alleged to have been his personal assistant, | :19:56. | :20:03. | |
working solely for him. EMF once reimbursed medical costs for five | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
members he charged to the charity. Add to that some other alleged | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
inappropriate expense, many authorised by himself, contrary to | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
the charity's policy and the grand total comes to ?625,961. | :20:16. | :20:24. | |
Small scums and money, and in this -- small sums of money, and like in | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
this case large sums of money, can save lives, to get clean water into | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
a family home in India or Africa. To have someone treated against TB is | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
worth doing and that's why I'm still involved, that is why I'm determined | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
to stick with this. The charity is now engulfed in claim and counter | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
claim. Lord Bhatia is suing for unfair dismissal and has launched | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
separa proceedings against EMF to recover over ?250,000 which he says | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
he loaned to the charity. The trustees say these were not | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
loans but injections of cash to cover up the scale of his own | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
mismanagement. Aside from the controversy over the alleged | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
mishandling of charity funds, Lord Bhatia could yet find himself in yet | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
more hot water. Documents seen by BBC Newsnight suggests that Lord | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
Bhatia could once more stand accused of abusing his parliamentary | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
expenses. During 2009 and 2010 Lord Bhatia was | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
claiming his chauffeur-driven mileage expenses from the charity. | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
These expense forms include a running total of the car mileage. If | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
we take the 4th of February, for example, we can see the total | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
mileage travelled that day was 80. This was claimed for and paid by the | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
charity. But the problem is, if we look at his House of Lords expenses | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
for that very same day, he's also submitted a claim for a 30-mile | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
journey to Westminster. But this means he has been paid twice, | :22:06. | :22:15. | |
because we know that day's full mileage has been paid by the | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
charity. The records show Lord Bhatia appears to do this no fewer | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
than 138 times. Resulting on payments from the tax-payers' purse | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
of more than ?1500 that could have been claimed fraudulently. There can | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
be no defence for claiming the same expenses from a charity and from the | :22:36. | :22:44. | |
taxpayer. Lord Bhatia's alleged double claiming went on until July | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
2010, just a few weeks before his suspension for flipping his second | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
home. It didn't form part of the case against him back then. It is | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
understood these allegations are being made for the first time. To be | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
fair to Lord Bhatia, after he returned to his House of Lords | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
suspension in 2011 and for the whole of 2012, he didn't claim any of his | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
parliamentary allowances. But, following his acrimonious split from | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
the charity in December last year, and his wages from there drying up | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
as of January this year, he once more started claiming his daily | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
announces from the taxpayer. Newsnight wanted to interview Lord | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
Bhatia about the allegations but his lawyer said he was not able to, | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
because of the pending court action. His lawyer also told us that Lord | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
Bhatia believed the charity had mislead the BBC, that EMF, in fact, | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
would hint a large sum of money and had benefitted from the use of | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
facilities in the House of Lords. The lawyer said the story was an | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
attempt to "to rereopen and confuse the historical published position | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
with the present Government and Lord Bhatia and the EMF." The case has | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
been reported by the charity to the national fraud agency, action fraud, | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
while the charities commission told us they had an open case on EMF and | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
was monitoring the situation. We invited Lord Bhatia on to the | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
programme this evening to respond, guess what, he declined! As soon as | :24:23. | :24:31. | |
you leave port and start rowing across an ocean you are on your own, | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
you are immediately launched into a survival situation. If you go over | :24:37. | :24:38. | |
board and are separated from the boat it is a death sentence. The | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
clash in Kiev between a Government which favours Moscow and | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
demonstrators wanting closer relations with Europe, seems no | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
closer to resolution tonight. The American Secretary of State, John | :24:54. | :24:55. | |
Kerry, waded in today, demanding that the people be allowed to decide | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
their fate for themselves. The Ukraine's Government preferred to | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
warn the demonstrators to mind their step. We have been watching the | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
twoing and toing all day. The battle lines are drawn in Kiev, | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
on one side the forces of the date, ranks of riot police protecting the | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
President, and a Government that just turned its back on an EU | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
partnership deal. On the other, the opposition, it is barricaded the | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
streets in the centre of this city, and occupied some public buildings | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
in an attempt to galvanise resistance globally to what they see | :25:37. | :25:43. | |
as Russian domination. If you abandon this country they will have | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
a new pearl line wall. This is the new reality in this wall. President | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
Putin has the dream and everyone does and he has it, to restore the | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
empire. We have another dream, Ukrainian people, to join the | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
European Union. Last night the most important | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
parliamentary opposition leader addressed the supporters in the | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
square that has become the symbol of their revolt. Trying to oust the | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
Government by a parliamentary vote he suggested it would be very easy | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
to walk into the President's office. The opposition's dilemma now is how | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
far to goad the authorities and risk being accused of incitment. Nearby, | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
supporters of Occupy at the mayor's office, inside a constant Cummings | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
and goings as well as anguished political debates, giving the idea | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
of a revolution in process. This woman is 24 and works at the | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
university, she summoned her civil society here by Facebook. Their | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
discussion was about how to effect change It has taken us half an hour | :26:54. | :27:31. | |
to negotiate our way through the police lines there. The truth is the | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
protestors have declared their intention of seizing all kinds of | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
Government buildings. So, they are just trying to stop that happening. | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
And one of the key buildings is the parliament. Inside a debate was | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
going on and a senior figure from the President's party of the regions | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
was briefing the press on their formula for resolving this crisis. | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
They don't rule out joining the EU in the future, but insist that first | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
there is trade disputes to resolve with Russia. TRANSLATION: There is | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
absolutely a prospect of revolving the crisis peacefully. The only | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
thing is the opposition are not yet ready to compro-me we are ready to | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
consider all options. For example the inclusion of the opposition in a | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
Government to share responsibility for t situation in Ukraine, so when | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
we take the step to eurointegration, we would all be ready to share the | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
consequences of that decision. Including the first very difficult | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
period. Outside were thousands of demonstrators who had got through | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
the police lines. But they belonged to his and the President's party. | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
That's the rub, this is not a level democratic playing field. The | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
President's people have all sorts of advantages, and for the moment they | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
are talking of compromise. The President's supporters are taking a | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
line of moderation, and casting the opposition as dangerous wreckers who | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
could rip this country party. Their calculation is that if they can | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
avoid provocative acts of violence towards the protestors, slowly they | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
will start to drift away as the Ukrainian winter bites. That leaves | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
the opposition warning of the stresses between a pro-Russian | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
eastern Ukraine and the west that would rather be with the west. | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
Another scenario is to split the country and to make two Ukraines. | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
That is what today was said to the speaker of the House, you | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
underestimate the situation, it is not a fight between the Government | :29:43. | :29:44. | |
and their position. It is not a fight of sharing the power and | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
getting the office of the President. This is the fight for the future of | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
this country. Whether this country will exist as an independent and | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
sovereign state, or this will be a failed state. Deep pensions remain | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
then, not least because the President may decide to clear these | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
people from the centre of Kiev. For the moment he's winning the | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
stand-off, and might squand at the by using force. | :30:09. | :30:15. | |
-- squander it by using force. I have broken my arm but it won't stop | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
me doing my job, it is so banal as a saying, but when an MP says I'm | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
clinically depressed and I'm taking medication for it is another matter. | :30:25. | :30:33. | |
The MP for Barrow in Furness has just made that statement, John | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
Woodcock. It is not like the Mayor of Toronto admitting smoking crack | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
cocaine and ranting, but for an MP to come out about mental illness is | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
very unusual, and he has been praised by many for it. What made | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
you make the statement? I feel slightly self-indulgent for talking | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
to you. We invited you, it is fine. One in four people the mental health | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
charities say have problems with mental health at points in their | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
lives. Far fewer than one in four actually seek help. I only really | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
thought I could take this step and go to a GP, ask for medication | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
privately because of what some of my friends have done in parliament in | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
recent months and years in saying that they have a problem. In opening | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
up. So I thought well if I'm going to do this I should just be open and | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
honest in the way that I am if I have a scrape, if I fall off a | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
ladder which started this whole thing or whatever. I would say if I | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
have a physical injury, I ought to treat a mental illness in the same | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
way. What is what has been the reaction? Overwhelming today. | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
Supportive? Really lovely. Lots of people in the constituency, on | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
Twitter and Facebook saying nice things. People in parliament coming | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
over and saying well done. I'm sure there will be people up in Barrow | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
who are concerned about it. And you just need to say to them well I feel | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
I can do the job. I'm making a decent fist of it at the moment I | :32:14. | :32:22. | |
think. This is about me wanting to get better and I want more people. | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
We should see treatment as a way of actually overcoming issues rather | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
than flagging up a problem and everyone being worried about it. | :32:32. | :32:33. | |
This is depression we are talking about. Some forms of depression are | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
so bad you can hardly get out of bed. If you can't get out of bed you | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
can't represent constituents can you? I think like any illness, it | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
will affect people in different ways. If it is really bad, then I | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
hope we can get to a point where more people can be onest about it | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
and them seek help. I am blessed, I'm blessed to do the job that I do, | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
I'm blessed that I can still do it despite what I have got. Even if it | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
were, if it were worse than it was I would still want to go and seek | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
help. I would like to think that more people could be open. If we | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
could remove the stigma still lingering around mental health | :33:20. | :33:21. | |
problems, then I think more and more people will be able to feel that | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
they don't have to be silent about this, suffer at home. Not even talk | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
to their family often, which so many people have been coming up today and | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
saying I have had this but I can't say. If they normalise it, will make | :33:36. | :33:42. | |
a difference. You mentioned one in four people having a mental health | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
problem in the average year. That means there is well over 150 MPs who | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
are probably in that situation doesn't it, if they are | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
representative of the people as a whole. Yet what you have done is | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
really unusual? I'm not the first, Kevin Jones, Charles Walker talked | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
about mental health problems in the chamber. Alastair Campbell has said | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
a lot about it. I don't think we should be in a position where you | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
have to fess up. At times in the past when people have tried to force | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
it out and spread rumours. If people want to keep this this is a private | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
thing, it is right and they should be able to do so. I hope more | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
people, even if they are doing it privately and they are struggling | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
that you will try to get help and get yourselves better. Is there a | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
particular problem about being open about this when you are a politician | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
and you can't really show weakness? I think that has been an issue, | :34:39. | :34:49. | |
clearly. I'm reading the biography of Lyndon Baines Johnson, and it | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
talked about how after his heart attack, he was depressed and took | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
pills back then, there was no way he was going into that. That has been a | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
thing. We have so often said, rightly and understandable, you are | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
not real you have just got this image which we don't believe you. I | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
have decided to say what is happening in my life and people have | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
to make a judgment on that now and in the election, I guess. The | :35:17. | :35:25. | |
celebrity cook Nigella Lawson admitted in court today that she had | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
taken cocaine but smoked marijuana but not addicted and that her | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
ex-husband, Charles Saatchi was trying to blacken her name by | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
suggesting a drug problem. The issue in the case is whether their | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
assistants defrauded the glamorous couple has been completely | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
overshadowed the evidence it has given into their lives. This report | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
contains some flash photography. Nigella Lawson had predicted that | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
she would be on trial. Although appears as a witness, the life and | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
marriage of the TV cook was certainly under the microscope, in | :36:03. | :36:12. | |
the not very Nigella surroundings of Isleworth Crown Court. Journalists | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
from here and around the world found themselves privvy to a lifestyle of | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
extravagant spending, and what Miss Lawson described as "intimate | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
terrorism". Earlier this year her ex-husband, Charles Saatchi was | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
pictured with hand to her face. He told everyone that he was taking | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
cocaine out of her nose, but really he was demanding her attention. | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
The art collector said he still adored his ex-wife when he gave | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
evidence last week. She lost no time today in accusing him of bullying | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
her. He In fact, two former personal | :36:53. | :37:10. | |
assistants, on the left here, sisters Elisabetta Grillo and | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
Francesca Grillo are on trial. Accused of defrauding Mr Saatchi of | :37:14. | :37:22. | |
?600,000, allegations they deny. In sometimes testy exchanges, the | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
defence barrister asked Miss Lawson had her background conflicted with | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
her husband's. She replied she didn't know why her marriage was so | :37:33. | :37:41. | |
pertinently to her. He asked was her marriage Endeaning unfortunately. | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
She said not unfortunately. Known to her many fans as the domestic | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
goddess, Nigella Lawson painted a very different picture of her home | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
life today. She said it was intimate terrorism. And this had led her to | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
use cocaine and cannabis. I have never been a drug addict or habitual | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
user, I did not have a drug problem, I had a life problem. The court | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
heard extraordinary details of domestic life chez Saatchi, how the | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
art elector preferred to use cash, and kept a huge stash of it on a | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
clear zip-up bag on top of the fridge. How he picked up the tab | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
when one of Miss Lawson's assistants held a wedding reception at the | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
Saatchi Gallery, and how she could expect to catch a cab to her | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
father's house to do the cleaning. Miss Lawson called her ex-husband as | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
brilliant but beautiful and not the most reliable witness. She's due to | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
face further cross-examination tomorrow. | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
Very soon most of us will be going to bed, for four men, somewhere in | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
the eastern Atlantic though, it will be a pretty makeshift affair, and | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
they will have nothing else to look forward to for the best part of | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
another couple of months. They set off at lunchtime today, to row | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
across the Atlantic. Others have done it before, of course, but none | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
of these four, all four are serving sold yurts, two of them are reseal | :39:16. | :39:27. | |
wounded. We have -- severely wounded. | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
As soon as you leave port and you are immediately launched into a | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
survival situation. If you go overboard and you are separated from | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
the boat, it is a death sentence. It is 3,000 miles of ocean, in a very | :39:42. | :39:53. | |
small boat. It was from the island of La Gomera that Christopher | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
Columbus first set sail for the Americas five centuries ago. His | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
route will be followed by 16 teams of rowers competing in the Atlantic | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
Chap Epping Race. We will go through some safety procedures at night as | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
well, that will be things like having our life jackets on, always | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
wearing them at night. The crews are likely to be rowing around the clock | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
for at least 40 days. This team of four British soldiers, all veterans | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
of the Afghan war, could well find it especially tough. The Lance | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
Corporal was severely wounded on patrol. We were ambushed, close to | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
the enemy and moving down an irrigation ditch. There was an | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
obstruction, a number of trees in the ditch, which forced us to push | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
out of the ditch anden to dry land again. If it is getting too tight we | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
will have to get out. Two of my mates got out and moved forwards, | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
and nothing happened, I was the third man in patrol. I initiated the | :40:57. | :41:05. | |
devaricose immediately losing both of my leg, the fingers on my left | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
hand and a large part of my face. That he is a double amputee. I was | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
conscious throughout the whole incident. I remember the guys | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
talking to me, the searing pain. You're all right mate, you are going | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
to be fine, you're good, you're good. All you want to do is scream, | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
at the same time that is no way to die screaming in the mud. I saw the | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
state I was in, and you immediately kind of wonder, you know, what now? | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
What happens next? You can only trust the guys that are with you to | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
do the best they can, but when you see yourself in that kind of state | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
you don't really have much hope. Cayle had barely finished his rehab | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
when he started training for this. He and the rest of the team aren't | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
just facing a gruelling journey but a dangerous one. There are many | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
ngers at sea, a number of shipping lanes cross our route. There is a | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
realistic chance to get hit by the tankers. Dangerous weather system, | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
tropical storms, Atlantic low pressure, schools, very large wave, | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
30, 40-foot waves created by the trade wins. What is the first thing | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
to do when someone falls in the water. Shout "man overboard". | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
??FORCEDWHI Very unlikely it turn the boat around to pick someone up | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
because of the big sea, if the swells are big you will get carried | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
away from the boat, and trying to find you is like a needle in the | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
haystack. Don't fall off the boat and make sure you stay lipped on. | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
Corporal Scott lost his leg in Afghanistan in 2007, also as a | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
result of an IED. I'm doing it for the guys, the personal friends I | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
have lost, the guys more severely injured than me, and people who have | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
lost loved ones. It is, I think people look at it and go, wow, these | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
guys are soldiering on. What he and the rest of the crew have been | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
trying to prepare themselves for is not just the monotony, but how four | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
grown men are supposed to exist in such a tiny space. I suppose in way | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
it helps missing a leg, because there is a bit more room in there, | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
but it is probably, I can't stretch my arms out and I can probably just | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
managed to get my shoulders in there, it is probably that small. | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
Stuffed inside the boat's hatches are pacts of freeze-dried food, | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
parentally there will be room on deck for a gas burner to cook on, | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
don't ask where. As for answering the all of nature there is at least | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
a choice. Pick your spot, you can have the deluxe or ultimate deluxe, | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
it is up to you. It is over the side or in one of the buckets behind you. | :43:55. | :44:05. | |
So exsummation -- exhaustion, claustraphobia and no privacy, no | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
wonder the team is concerned about how well they will get on. What | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
keeps me awake is how we will get on as a team and make it Now the | :44:13. | :45:24. | |
papers: That's all from us tonight, Kirsty | :45:25. | :46:08. | |
will be here, | :46:09. | :46:09. |