07/01/2014 Newsnight

Good evening. The most-high-profile case in which

so-called Twitter trolls are brought to justice results in two guilty

pleas and the prospect of prison. One of them, tracked down by this

programme, threatened to rape his victim merely because she tried to

get a banknote redesigned. She's here to tell us about her

experience. Can the government get business to

swallow an increase in the minimum wage? It may look like they are

making crystal meth here but I promise you it is beer. They paid a

living wage. Why would you if you did not have to? I was very scared

that one day I would wake up from being strangled.

Is there any knowing why domestic violence occurs? I put my hands

around my partner's throat, trying to get answers out of her. That she

was cheating on you? Yes. I squeezed and I squeezed.

Jane Austen meets vicious Twitter Troll. As combinations go they don't

come much more unexpected. But when two young people pleaded guilty

today to sending offensive messages to a woman whose only offence was to

seek to have a woman's face on a British banknote, it lifted the lid

on a poisonous world of anonymous cyber-bullying which causes real

distress. The victim of that abuse is here and we'll be talking

together shortly. But first Zoe Conway reports. Her report contains

strong language. For more than a week last summer,

Twitter was engulfed in hate. Threats of death, rape and graphic

abuse was sent from more than 80 Twitter accounts to the campaign

Caroline Criado-Perez and the Labour MP Stella Creasy. It began when the

two women successfully campaigned for a woman to be represented on a

banknote. Caroline Criado-Perez said the tweets had a lasting

psychological effect on her. Stella Creasy has said she was left fearing

for her safety. This is 23-year-old Isabella Sorley from Newcastle. She

is responsible for sending some of those tweets. Today, she pleaded

guilty to the charge of sending menacing messages. The court was

told about tweets she sent using several accounts on the 30th of

July. The most abusive were sent in the early hours of the morning.

Hiding under his food is 25-year-old John Nimmo from South Shields, who

also pleaded guilty to the same charge of sending menacing messages.

John Nimmo's tweets were directed at Caroline Criado-Perez and Stella

Creasy over the course of three days last July. He said:

it was an investigation by Newsnight which led to the arrest of John

Nimmo who was using a number of Twitter accounts to hide his

identity. He was tracked down by a journalist. I found all of these

various Twitter account and linked all of them to one individual who

was sending abusive tweets using six different accounts. He confirmed to

me that he was using these different accounts when I spoke to him

privately. He eventually let slip that he had a PlayStation user

name. I used that to link to his Facebook account and then we were

able to find his real name, John Nimmo of South Shields. The court

was given an insight into the character of the two defendants. The

prosecution said Isabella Sorley has several previous convictions for

being drunk and disorderly. She said she was off her face on Trent at the

time of sending the tweets and does not remember sending the offensive

messages. John Nimmo's solicitor said he rarely leaves the house,

here's a somewhat sad individual, because he has no friends he strives

for popularity online and he measures his popularity on the

number of really tweets. One of the elements we see with individuals who

is engaged with this type of behaviour is they are trying to out

do each other and entertain each other in the group. They will go on

to other sites and say, this is what I posted, how funny is this? They

will build up and compete with each other and be more and more

aggressive. With John Nimmo we have the image of a person who was

looking for validation and looking for attention. Why did you send

those messages? I cannot say anything else. They will be

sentenced in a few weeks time. They are already being punished with a

series of mocking tweets. And Caroline Criado-Perez joins me

now. I understand your lawyer has told you not to discuss some of

this. What is it like to receive some of this correspondence? As you

said, it is quite difficult because there are still investigation is

ongoing. But there are many others which are not being investigated.

That is a concern for me. It is a relief that these two have pleaded

guilty but it is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many really

graphic and violent tweets which were sent to me which are not being

investigated. Not just that were sent to me but were sent to other

women. They have not seen any justice whatsoever. They have been

to the police and have been told to close down their Twitter accounts

and not treat things which should insight this type of violence. But I

am really glad that we seem to be seeing some type of justice and

there is an attempt to take this seriously. Does it surprise you that

of the two today that one of them was a woman? Probably sad. There is

no secret that some women can be sexist and misogynistic. We are all

brought up in the same type of society which has misogyny and sex

is running through it would be naive that some women do not pick up on

that. It demonstrates that somewhere in interna lies it so much that they

are spreading it themselves. What you make of the fact that it was a

journalist who discovered the identity of one of these are not the

police? I found it incredibly frustrating. It did feel at the time

that I was having to do all the investigative work myself, taking

screen caps, journalists were getting there before the police. The

next person who was found was found so much longer after Newsnight had

tracked down someone. Journalists do not have the same recourse of

information than the police do, it felt like the police were not

trying. What is the lesson that ought to be learned from this

experience? Well, quite a few lessons. I think social media

companies need to be much more aware of the extent to which their

platforms can be used, not just for positive. They really like to sell

the positives. What you were using it for was positive? Exactly. It

enabled me to change something about society. It enables a lot of women

to engage in the political discourse which is why it is so important that

we do not allow this to continue. A lot of people are being silenced by

this, not daring to speak their mind. Are you suggesting that social

media companies censor what people say? No, but they can take it more

seriously. They can shut down accounts when they are reported.

They can make it easier to report. Also they -- the blocking system on

Twitter is completely inadequate. It is not understood how much Twitter

can be used to stalk women. They made it easier for women or victims

to be stalked online. Have you heard of other cases of women being

stalked online? Absolutely. I am not sure I would go as far as calling it

an epidemic but it is something which is quite usual. It happens to

a lot of women and the worst thing is although I feel my case was not

handled well and I feel angry and frustrated about it, I'm incredibly

lucky compared to a lot of women who do not see any justice whatsoever.

They do not get any media attention so they do not get the police

looking into their case. I do not want to sound callous, but when you

see that one of the perpetrators of the threats you received is some

weird individual who does not go out at all, described by his own counsel

as a sad individual who only ever leave the house to empty the bins,

you were not actually in any real danger from such a person. But you

cannot know that online. All you see are these threatening menacing

messages which are telling you in incredible detail what will happen

to what part of your body, which will be penetrated, which will be

mutilated, when you will be pistol whipped, raped or killed and you

just do not know who these people are. One of the tweets I was sent

said it could be someone you know and I did not know if it was someone

I knew or not. How could I possibly know? So what is to be done? I think

we need to look why this is happening. I think it is incredibly

important that the police take it more seriously and social media

companies are seen some responsibility but we need to look

at not just symptoms but causes. It is about priorities. It is about

deciding, does this matter? Of course I think it matters because I

see it as a freedom of speech issue, freedom of speech for women who are

routinely being shutdown and silenced. Mary Beard was only

talking about politics and as a result of that she got a similar

wave of violent, misogynistic abuse and that is people trying to shut

women down and it is not something we should be allowing to happen.

Caroline, thank you. Yesterday, they were talking about

the need for yet more cuts to public spending. Today, it seems the

Conservatives may be planning to raise the minimum wage above the

rate of inflation. This, senior figures in the party believe, would

be the sort of idea which would transfigure the way the public see

the party. It would certainly be unexpected, especially since the

party fought to prevent the things be introduced, claiming it would

cost jobs. Emily Maitlis has more. I know, I know, it looks like a

scene from Breaking Bad, but it is good old-fashioned beer they brew

here and they do so happily. Not just because it is beer but because

their bosses are recently and in credited living wage employer. --

their boss is a recently accredited living wage employer. Fred Mason,

who set up this brewery just under a year ago, for him, it was a

no-brainer. We hope it will lead to high rates of staff retention, high

rates of motivation and for people to be proud of working for our

company. Tax breaks for employers offering the living wage is

something Labour said it would pledge but the whole question of

wage increases seems to be on a roll right now. The CBI suggested over

Christmas that companies feeling the benefits of growth should put up

their staff's wages and there is a growing sense among some Tories that

would not be a bad horse to back. We want to signal the direction of

travel. The Prime Minister talks about focusing on the lowest paid.

Ironic when you think how hard they used to resist it. The only debate

about the national minimum wage is not whether it would put people out

of work but how many hundreds of thousands more people would be

unemployed wholly unnecessary as a result of this. One image the

Conservatives cannot afford is that theirs is a party of the rich, the

elite. Recent pushes on welfare reform, immigration, the big

questions in Europe have pleased those on the right of the party. A

substantial increase to the national minimum wage would send out a

totally different message, that people are suffering and they get

it. Politically, it is very powerful. Well, yes, OK politically

but economically it is highly conjugated to calibrate. It is

decided by an independent body. But the Government has the last word.

Last August, it advised the Government to increase the minimum

wage by 1.9%. The Government took on the recommendation. Some campaigners

want to see it at living wage standard. Nationally that would put

it at ?7 65. Last autumn it was Vince Cable butt kicked things off.

Remember that. The Lib Dems want you to remember they were first on this

one. The Conservatives have shamelessly been pinching Lib Dem

policies. They are desperate not to look so nasty, the Tories. It does

look now as if they are coming on board to increase the minimum wage.

Better late than never. Our concern is that if the national minimum wage

increases excessively, by more than the market will bear, employers will

take on new workers at a lower pace than they would otherwise have done

so or may even shed workers. Government sources have told me

George Osborne invited leaders in to discuss the issue ahead of the

Autumn Statement. They left him unconvinced a rise would work. The

Government has not submitted its final evidence but it does no harm

to look like they are thinking hard. No risky business but a sense,

can I get away with this one? They have not bottled it for ever. With

me here to discuss this are the Conservative backbenchers, Robert

Halfon and Mark Reckless. What do you reckon? I think you made a huge

mistake as a party to oppose the minimum wage. We are supposed to be

the party of a hard-working people. Something really symbolic like

minimum wage, we need to show we supported and we should increase it

as long as it does not hit jobs. It is consistent with the promise you

make all the offer you make. If we are to be the party for hard-working

people, the workers party, we have to show people we support the

minimum wage. It gets people back into work. Would you like to see it

introduced? I oppose the introduction. You oppose the

introduction of the minimum wage but what about an increase? Ten years

ago I would have said no but I am concerned it will cost jobs.

Evidence has not born that out. -- because I was concerned it would

cost jobs. It will save the taxpayer money. The taxpayer is topping up

low wages through tax credits. In the last really difficult economic

period, employment has done really well. Over 30 million people in

work. Wages have been terribly slow. They have fallen really a lot

in real terms. I just wonder if an above inflation increase in minimum

wage might actually give the right signal for wages and would be

affordable for most employers and would not cost jobs. You are not

converted but can see the merit of the argument. Roberts, like me,

fought his seat three times before he won. Quite a lot of my

constituents would benefit from an above inflation rise. I do not wink

there would be a significant worry on employment. George Osborne was

saying yesterday there has to be another 25 billion cut from public

spending. The minimum wage will encourage people back into work. We

must be careful to raise it to a level that does not hit jobs. You

actually can raise it through other means, through raising the threshold

in which people pay national insurance tax, for example,

continuing to raise the threshold at which people pay income tax. You can

reach a minimum wage and a living wage by reforming the tax system. It

will get people off benefits. Above all, it will show the public that we

really are on the side of hard-working people. If we are to

say that and have that as our slogan, we have to really mean it.

You have to find something that will slightly and EU to the public by

comparison with your present stance. It is not so much the political

positioning. I worked as an economist and have thought about it

a lot. Evidence has changed. Companies have quite a lot of money

stacked away. Wages have fallen, perhaps 10%, compared with where

they were in real terms. Above inflation increases in the minimum

wage would not cause the rise in unemployment that was feared. It may

give the right sort of signal, both in terms of what we want to seek in

helping people at the bottom end but also in the economy, in terms of

getting money into consumers pockets and getting the economy moving

further. You sound as if you are just about persuaded. I spoke about

this a few months ago with the Chancellor. I left that meeting

telling him I thought he should go for it. I think he has been quite

surprised at the extent to which there is not opposition. I think

opinion has shifted within the Conservative party. We followed the

evidence. We have been helping people at the lower end of the

labour market. This would be another way of doing it. I no longer have

the fears in terms of employment that I used to. That is why the

Conservatives were worried about it in the past. I have anxieties. On

balance I think it is the right thing to do. I think politicians

should decide. You should not send it to quangos like the low pay

commission. You need to think, is it economic lead and politically the

right thing to do? The low pay commission, when the minimum wage

was operated, said it could not be operated any more because of the

fragility of the economy. I think the time has come to increase the

minimum wage in terms of inflation to reflect the changes that have

happened in the past few years. The minimum wage has risen at very tiny

levels in the past couple of years or so. It is not just about the

minimum wage. I want to achieve a living wage. Achieve that by

reforming the tax system. We need to get more people out of tax. There

are still 5 million people in our country who will earn less than

?10,000 a year who work part-time. They are not affected by income tax

changes which have been very beneficial. We need to reform

national insurance. We need to get people out of tax. At that time, we

will get people towards a living wage. You are more or less

converted, aren't you? I do not think it is an idea to be pressuring

companies or public sector employees. A lot of people cannot

afford it. We do not pay the living wage will stop some other councils

do. The job of the council is to deliver services as efficiently and

effectively as it can and not pay public workers more than it needs to

get them to do the job. If you are doing it across the board at a

national level and you have a national minimum wage which is not

causing problems, I do think it is an issue we should look at. Robin

has made a very strong case. If we said we opposed the minimum wage and

now we support it, we do not want to be on the wrong side of the

argument. Twelfth Night is gone, and with it the season of goodwill. It's

a melancholy fact that Christmas and New Year is also the high point for

domestic disharmony and, in an alarming number of cases, domestic

violence. The full extent of this horror isn't known, although a

figure of over a million women is often given as an indication of the

scale. Many women have difficulty persuading the police to take them

seriously but sometimes the abusers do opt for treatment. I am quite a

bit bigger than my wife so it was very easy to intimidate her with my

size. I would start using that as a controlling measure.

It turned physical one afternoon. My wife was not listening to what I was

saying, or I did not believe she was understanding what I was saying. In

my mind, she was not being very clever or very alert to what I

wanted to do. So, I lashed out. I punched her in the stomach will stop

this was about eight weeks after the birth of my son said this was very

painful. He was lovely. We went to the beach

and did normal couple things like hung out. Just had tea together,

watched TV, had a laugh, and sort of just a normal relationship to begin

with really. Things went from an argumentative situation to

physically abusive within the space of weeks. I cannot think of a form

of violence I did not display. Nearly every part of my body he

would hit. After a while, he would do it where people could not see. It

got to the point where I'd put my hands and ran my partner 's throat,

trying to get answers out of her... That she was cheating on you? And I

squeezed and squeezed and just could not let go. My partner lost all

consciousness. She felt out of my hands, onto the floor. Were you

worried that he was going to kill you? Yes. I was very scared that one

day I would not wake up from being strangled, I would not be there no

more. It was very... Sorry. My wife made it clear that if I did not go

on the course, it would be all over. That is where I learned that

some of my passive aggressive behaviours were abused. Before I

started the course, just physical violence was abused and not the

control that I had been carrying out for the past number of years. My

wife recently left the phone on the side and it got damaged. Whereas a

number of years ago, that would have been an exact opportunity for me to

be passive aggressive and bully her and belittle her, I could basically

just shrug my shoulders and go, oh well, we will get a new one. I quite

enjoyed watching Hollyoaks when the children had gone to bed. They were

doing a storyline on domestic abuse and I was watching it. I was like,

that is me. I need to sort of get out of this. It was getting worse

and worse to the point where she was going to get seriously hurt. I

thought, no, I have had enough. I am not doing it any more. I went

upstairs and called the police. I admitted to arguing with my partner

but any physical damage to herself, to the property, I flipped. I made

it her fault. I accused her of hitting herself. They phoned up and

said we had dropped the case again. I was like, OK. Did you want that

case to be dropped? No. I did not want it to be dropped. I wanted him

to be punished for what he had done to me. I had given up on everything.

I very rapidly went downhill. I got suicidal. I took an overdose. I did

not know where to go will stop I engaged myself on the course. I

asked for a self referral. He is completely changed. He can actually

hold his temper for an awful lot longer and he is able to recognise

when he gets to the point where he will explode. He will lead and take

a time out. Do you think you are killed? No. My belief is, I am still

exactly the same person. I still have the ability to get that angry,

be that aggressive, but I have the tools and I have the management

techniques to control my anger and do something more positive with it.

I would not say he will never do it again but as long as we recognise it

and work at it and put the things in place and recognise the signs, we

can get through it without it getting to that point. Why should

she believe you now? It is a question of trust. I do not expect

anyone to believe me, ever. I have diminished the trust that level. It

is people 's own decisions whether they will trust me or not.

The names were changed in that report to keep the contributors

anonymous. Are these programmes the way forward? We are joined by Colin

Fitzgerald, of Respect, the organisation which runs these

courses and by Polly Neate from Women's Aid. What happens on these

courses? The men come on the programme. They have to provide

their partner's details so they get support at the same time. They are

asked to look at their behaviour and are held accountable for their

behaviour and asked to take responsibility for it. Can you clear

anyone who comes on to the cause? I think you are is too strong a word.

The course is about increasing the safety of victims and children. You

are presumably pleased these courses exist? Definitely. What is important

is they are part of a response to domestic violence. We need to

remember that at this time in the UK, we have a lot of in adequacy is

in the police and the criminal justice response to domestic

violence and we have situations where services across the country

for victims and affected children are being decimated. Additionally

important to point out that these programmes rely on the rest of that

response from society in order to be effective. It is really important.

These programmes on their own do not keep victims say. There is a hole in

the structure and a response to domestic violence that does that.

Who regulates you? With our member programmes we regulate them. You

ourselves regulated? We regulate these programmes. Asked as an

organisation is endorsed by a number of organisations, for example the

Home Office and the saying that we need a much earlier

intervention. We need victims to feel confident in coming forward to

the police and being supported to make those choices. The other

important thing to relearn their is that we are seeing a trend for

commissioning very short-term perpetrator programmes, not

necessarily effective, and we are in an environment where everyone is

trying to save money and there are some real risks created by that.

Where these programmes are of good quality, that is one thing but we

need to learn the that couples counselling, mediation, short-term

behavioural programmes for perpetrators are not valid

perpetrator treatment programmes. Do you agree with that? Absolutely.

Isn't there a danger that if you teach a man somehow to manage his

behaviour so he is not overtly violent, that there is a danger he

may start to find more subtle ways of being abusive? Is there a worry

about that? There is absolutely a concern. That is why the primary aim

of the programmes we endorse and regulate, we ask that the primary

aim is to increase safety first and foremost. That can only happen if

there are linked partner support services. That is if a guy comes on

the programme he signed up to limited confidentiality. We no one

of the reasons why women stay in relationships with men who are

abusive is if the partner is getting some support. The support is vital.

I really agree with that. You cannot emphasise enough the importance for

services that actually protect victims and give them choices in the

situation. The other thing to say if this is not just about anger

management. It is not just about a guy learning to control his temper

because domestic violence is about coercion and control. It is quite

calculated. It is not just under the who cannot keep their temper. It is

a much more complicated set of behaviours than that and it is

really important that those are addressed. It is not just about a

six-week anger management course and calling that a perpetrator

programme. Thank you. Now, If you've noticed what seems to

be an unnatural scarcity of pasty-faced, tired-eyed geeks in

your locality, here's the explanation.

They're in Las Vegas. Like the members of an occult sect they

gather at this time of year at the Consumer Electronics Show there to

worship the latest glittering gewgaws offered up by international

capitalism. David Grossman is among them.

The old saying is what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Why would the

political correspondents be at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas?

I have got a new job now. This is supposed to be the year of smart TV.

The problem is, where to start in this enormous show. There is only

one thing you need to see for bragging rights. You have to go to

some sun and see their bendable television. It will make you smile.

So it is over two Samsung then. Does this one bend? No. That one bend?

Thank you. Does this one bend? Does it bend? Yes, it is Ben D. Will it

bend now? It is going to bend. It is bending. That is a bend TV. One of

the things we see here is new technologies which do not have their

end application yet. This is detecting the movement of my hands

and my fingertips. It is adapting music. That is not the end product.

It is up to Manufacturer is to incorporate this technology and do

something extraordinary with it. What will they do? We do not know

yet. Everywhere you look there are cool gadgets. Like these. They are

all controlled from your smartphone. It is not just fun. You can use this

to teach children how to programme. And I suppose it could make Mr

Paxman's next croquet party more interesting. You are a robot are

you? I am in California controlling this device. Nice to meet you,

shaking hands. Perfect, yes. Bye-bye. Although this stuff looks

super slick, the technology does not always work. Yesterday, when

Saint-Saens work unveiling their new TVs, they had a film director to

help them but his autocue did not work. It turned into a disaster

movie. The curve, it will impact how we experience movies. Excuse me, I

am sorry. I am sorry. OK. Thank you for joining us. That is all from the

Consumer Electronics Show. Tomorrow we will be look at health and

fitness technology, of which, there is a massive amount here. Strange as

it may seem, Las Vegas which gave the world the all buffets, is

serving up some things which can help you live. I cannot do this, my

head is not in the right space. Now, French comedian has

short-circuited his country's right to free speech. President Francois

Hollande has urged people to ban performances by Dieudonne Mbala

Mbala, usually known as Diuedonne, because of his anti-Semitism. It has

tested Voltaire's believe that I defend what you have to say but not

the right to hear it. The artist called Diuedonne in one

of his recent shows. This number is called the victimisation

Championships in where he plays various characters which are

pleading because of suffering races in history. The subtext is

understood by the audience, it is Jews who have grasped the suffering

limelight. It is provocation is like this which have led President

Hollande to act. A circular is being sent to local authorities reminding

them they have the power to ban Diuedonne's shows on the grounds of

a danger to public order. TRANSLATION: In the threat to racism

and anti-Semitism, of the human lesions caused by discrimination, I

ask the public authorities to be vigilant and flexible. A total

overreaction say Diuedonne's supporters for whom this is all

about free speech. If there are no disturbances at his shows, says his

lawyer, and there has not been, then what the government is doing is pure

censorship. Diuedonne has been based at this small Theatre in Paris which

is now daubed with graffiti. When he started his career, he was in a

double act with another comedian who was Jewish. Back then, everyone

agrees that he was genuinely very funny and very clever. But over the

years, the act has changed. The Diuedonne of today's overtly

political. Such humour as there is is deliberate, provocative, targeted

and some would say downright vicious. Over the years, there have

been several convictions and fines for anti-Jewish remarks, but

recently, according to Jewish leaders, the climate has turned

particularly nasty. This man, whose grandfathers both died in the

Holocaust, says the atmosphere reminds him of early 1930s Germany.

He spoke of a journalist called Patrick Kavanagh. With a name: You

only be a Jew. -- Patrick Coen. He said he wished he had been there at

the time of the Holocaust. We cannot accept that, it is really too much.

He said the Holocaust never happened, it is an invention of the

Jews. For many, not familiar with Diuedonne, the first introduction

with his world has been via the strange arm movement known as the

quenelle. The footballer Nicholas and elk did it in Britain. It has

been popularised on the Internet. It is an overt anti-Jewish gesture. For

others, it is perhaps more innocent, it is a way of putting up two

fingers to the system. Either way, the popularity shows how Diuedonne

has forged an alliance of unlikely types. For his biographer, it is all

part of the new face of the populist far right in Europe. TRANSLATION:

The people who follow him are mainly young, working class. They are not

culturally high level, but they are people who like him taking risks in

his provocation. They like him taking on the system. It is a way of

dealing with their own suffering in society. Several cities in France

have now said they will not allow Diuedonne to perform but what

difference that will make is far from clear. It is the Internet which

counts and Diuedonne's videos on YouTube can draw up to 2 million

hits. His audience are out there and they like what they hear. Well, a

little earlier I spoke to the French writer and film maker Alain Soral,

who is a close friend of Mr Dieudonne, and helped him popularise

the infamous quenelle gesture. I began by asking him what on earth it

meant. It is a gesture against the system,

the powers that be in France. It has only recently become the most

powerful Jewish organisation in France, they decreed it was an

anti-Semitic gesture. Their idea is that an anti-system gesture is an

anti-Semitic ones. Is that an improper accusation? That is the

question. You do not denied that Mr Dieudonne is an anti-Semite, do you?

The problem now is that this word has become used to scare people. A

long time ago, Dieudonne had a partner. All of these accusations

started arriving the day he did a sketch on Israeli settlers. Today we

have a very powerful Zionist lobby in France which treats anyone who

does not subscribe to its vision in the world as anti-Semitic. When he

says he is neutral, between the Nazis and the Jews, he is obviously

saying he is anti-Semitic. I do not think you have quite understood that

Dieudonne is a comedian. He performs comedy and does sketches. If you

take a phrase in isolation, you will not understand. You need to ask the

people who have seen his entire show and then you will see that his very

diverse audience, which reflects the whole of French public opinion, have

never thought he is anti-Semitic. If that is the case, why is it that the

Government that takes such a strong line against him? Because the French

government, as we can see from its foreign policy and the annual

dinner, is entirely under the influence of the Zionist lobby. What

do you imagine Mr Dieudonne will do now that he is finding himself

banned in so many cities? The truth is that the measures taken by the

Socialist government are completely illegal in France. Since France is

still under the rule of law, I would say Dieudonne will win and his case

will be supported by the facts. What is illegal today is not Dieudonne,

it is the measures the socialist government and the interior minister

have taken. Dieudonne will win his battle. Thank you very much indeed.

That's it. We leave you with the work of Professor Trevor Cox, who

has scoured the world for his favourite sounds, and then,

challengingly, put them in a book called Sonic Wonderland. Here are

four of the ones we liked best. Goodnight.