15/01/2014 Newsnight


15/01/2014

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A mood of "it seemed like a good idea at the time" has overtaken much

:00:08.:00:14.

of the Labour Party tonight on its plans to reform the British

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financial system by forcing the big banks to shed branches. It seemed

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such an easy target, yet tonight the party's come over all coy. Was this

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an idea which should really have stayed on the drawing board?

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We will explore how common relationships are between teachers

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and pupils. I had a crush on this guy so I was

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really flattered by the attention. And do you remember this? Dawn and

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as the sun breaks through the piercing chill of night outside, it

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lights up a biblical familiar anyone this place, say workers here, is the

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closest thing to hell on earth. Reports of the familiar anyone in

:01:01.:01:06.

Ethiopia certainly had an effect, is it possible that most of the time we

:01:07.:01:11.

are indifferent to television news reports of disasters abroad.

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No-one ever lost popularity by laying into bankers. Afters had

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attack on energy companies, Ed Miliband's latest Aunt Sally is said

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to be the five big banks whom he wants to cut down to size and expose

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to competition. True to form some of the bankers helped him out by

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apparently planning to give themselves big bonuses at the

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tax-payers' expense today. The circle that has to be squared is

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whether a bit of populisim can some how be reconciled to a well-run

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economy. Emily Maitlis told us a bit of this last night and is back with

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more now. Not a superhero but the Ed Miliband muscle is being flexed now,

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he has tried his hand with energy companies and parts of the press.

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This week the leader of the opposition will use anies new year's

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speech to talk about radical reform for the banks. Last night we heard

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about plans to break them up, by maybe capping their market share. It

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is to stop the domination of the big five names and let more competition

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in. It is a test of Ed Miliband, he's showing courage to take on

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entrenched interests, this being the latest one. I think there is

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considerable political support among the broad population who don't have

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much that is good to say about their banks. I think there is a political

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opportunity here which is linked to an economic need. We need a less

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concentrated banking industry. The five leading banks, Lloyd's, RBS,

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HSBC, Barclays and Santander, have an 85% share of the personal current

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account market. Four of them, everyone but Santander, have 78% of

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the business market. In the savings, however, it is different. The five

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largest firms account for 63%. In other words it is quite easy for

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banks to argue that their market share is not always consistent, but

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a cap would necessarily be pretty arbitary. Even before his speech is

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out the proposal is already met with, shall we call it scepticisim.

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The opposition are proposing specific market shares on specific

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banks, has that ever been tried in any other country? Just breaking up

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an institution doesn't necessarily create a viable or a more intensive

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competitive structure, so relevant competition authorities need to look

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at that. I make the general point that it is not just about one

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aspect, you need to look at the entire business model. On Friday Ed

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Miliband will tell us the brand-new competition and markets authority

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will investigate whether there is inadequate competition between banks

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and hint at a selling off of some parts of each bank, that is the plan

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at least. The idea of bank being told to sell off branches may be

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ringing alarm bells in some quarters. Don't forget under the

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last Labour Government, when Lloyd's took over HBOS, it was told by the

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EU to shed some 630 branches. There were very few takers. The buyer

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Lloyd's chose was the Co-Op, a bank we now know had a massive financial

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black hole. It is incredibly difficult, as we have seen, to force

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banks to divest, even when they want to. We have seen in the case of

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Lloyd's and RBS. The process of actually spinning off part of your

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banking operations is incredibly difficult, incredibly complex, and

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if you take branch, for example, in particular, if you want to slice out

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a portion of your branch operation, that technologically is incredibly

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difficult. One of Britain's most high-profile bankers told me it was

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a very bad idea for politicians to step in and try to dictate market

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share. They point to success stories, newcomers like Santander,

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who have managed to increase competition, and they say the aim

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should be to get down the barriers, rather than imposing dictate from

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unhigh. It is not just coming from the corners you would expect, the

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bankers themselves. Some of it seems to be coming from within. The

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interesting dynamic emerging here is not so much the one between Labour

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and the Conservatives, but the one between new Labour and whatever we

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might call this. One figure from the Blair era told me "I'm sick and

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tired of this populist nonsense, we should just let the banks with

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banks". Clearly picking fights with business is dangerous territory, but

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perhaps Ed Miliband has calculated if you pick the fights with the bits

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of business he might call "predators", then the public don't

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really mind. One area to strike a chord, the perennial problem of the

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bankers' bonus. It is something that won't happen until 2015. Ed Miliband

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asked the PM if he would block any attempt by the Royal Bank of

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Scotland of paying bonuses double the average of bankers' salary. If

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there is any attempt to pay a bonus bill, any proposals for that we will

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veto it. I'm not asking about increases in pay and bonus, I'm

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asking a very simple question, I'm asking a simple question about the

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proposal that is expected to come forward from RBS which is to pay

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more than 100% bonuses on pay. If he's not asking me about the overall

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pay and bonuses at RBS, why on earth isn't he, he should be. Listen

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carefully, a bullet dodge there, the Prime Minister commit to an overall

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cap at RBS, but ignores one fact, the number of bankers at RBS has

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fallen by some 40,000, could it be that those who are left are actually

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getting paid more? Perhaps Ed won the bonus round in PMQs today, but

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his big test still lies ahead on Friday. Who knows what last-minute

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readjustments to the speech are going on now. Don't forget all

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politicians know how perilous it is to be quoted on what you have said

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in the past. The leader in the opposition has said what Hollande is

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doing in France I want do in Britain! Tricky one that, afterall,

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Ed, breaking up is hard to do. Ge Now the Labour peer, Lord McFall,

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was a member of the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards,

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Wheeler is a bank analyst at Mediobanca. How would the

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realignment doing? Meaning disinvestment. Realignment of the

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banking system so you strip big banks of branches? When this

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Government came into power in 2010, it was charged with divesting 632

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branches of Lloyd's, and 316 branches of royal bank of Scotland.

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Five years later nothing has happened, therefore there is less

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competition in the sector. One of the issues that the parliamentary

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commission focussed on very much was the size of banks. And we were

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convinced that too big to fail is still to be solved. But more

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importantly too big to manage has still to be resolved. Therefore,

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size is really important in banks. So we have to find a way of reducing

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size of banks. What happened with the coalition with the banking is

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they took their foot off the accelerator, left it to Lloyd's,

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RBS, cosy discussions at the EU and nothing happened at all. If we are

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going to disinvest, and going to continue that process, we need to

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have an implementation strategy for that to happen. Could that work?

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Well it is very difficult, as Lord McFall said about getting the

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branches sold. But I think the point he has missed is TSB, the Lloyd's

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branch, will be floated this year, Williams and Glynns, the Lloyd's

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branches will be floated next year. There was no buyers except the Co-Op

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and we know that story. We have virgin money coming to the market.

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We have Metro bank increasing its network, Tesco's and Sainsbury's and

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Marks Spencers, this is just in the retail sector, not talking about

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the specialist SME lenders. Competition is coming to the market?

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Competition is coming to the market. You can't say they haven't sold

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branches. You are still going to have bank concentration. Listen to

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people like Andy Halden and Adair Turner, a chairman of the Financial

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Services Authority, listen to the former governor, Lord King. We have

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got to ensure that we have diversification in banking. That is

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the big issue. He has just told you though will happen? You have still

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got the banking there. It is scheduled to happen this year. It

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was scheduled to happen five years ago and it hasn't happened. The

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market has changed and the economy is better. I took the comments very

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seriously, the now chief economist at Goldman Sachs, or whatever. When

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he was freelancing and on the Monetary Policy Committee, he said

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remember the half-life in banking is three years. We have to have a

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policy and the politicians have to have a policy to ensure that we get

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change. That's why the issues that have been raised so far with the

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leaks with the Ed Miliband report are quite good. This is a

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generational issue and we need to ensure we get the change. You said

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it is a generational issue, it harks back to the generation in the 1960s

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in many people's eyes? In what way? The idea that some how a Labour

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Party can start coming into power and mucking around in a markets in a

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way it believes? With how are we mucking about, the coalition coming

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in 2010 and it wasn't mucking about. Give us a break! I would like to say

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something if it is possible, I know I have a politician, as an analyst

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I... Stop special pleading, get on with it! These branches were not

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sold because the economy was not looking as an economy you wanted to

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invest in bank branches. The good news is people think it is more

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attractive, the stock markets are stronger and we can get the

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businesses into the market. We need more competition but it is coming to

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the market. I think going through, let's just take one other statistic,

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if we add Nationwide into the five big banks you will see since 2009

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their share of deposit, a very important number, of those big banks

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has gone up to 73%. People feel comfortable putting money with big

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banks and they have shown that in the way the deposits have shifted.

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Ed Miliband has become rather boy about this plan, we will see how

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intact it is on Friday. Do you get the impression this is making the

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Labour Party look it is an anti-business party. Someone who is

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sitting in the equity markets that is a yes, we want parties committed

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to business and growing business. Something I would like Mr Ed

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Miliband to answer on Friday, we are expecting the Government to sell

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another possibly ?7 billion of Lloyd share in March or April this year,

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and he's just going to possibly come out with a competition inquiry which

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will undoubtedly hang over the share price, which means we the tax-payers

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may get less for our shares. The timing I'm concerned about it, it

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seems unnecessary. This is an extension of the parliamentary

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committee. We were saying it there had to be change and we were charged

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with looking at the standards and culture in the banking industry.

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Unanimously we agreed, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Nigel

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Lawson, Labour Party people, we said it was a culture that was rotten and

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standards that were low. We have to change that and for the long-term.

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This is just what the parliamentary commission has been asking for. What

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we have to do, Chris, is to ensure that there is a coming together of

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the politicians and people in the financial services industry. And if

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they were alert and up to it, instead of its here you would have

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chief executives of banks. If you phoned for them it would be a

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returned call. I'm sorry to say when you phone the Labour Party you can't

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get a party spokesman on the policy? That is the speech on Friday. You

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wouldn't talk to you when you got the leak last night. I wonder where

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that could have come from! I was in the cinema when I get a text from

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Newsnight and wisely I kept looking at the film! I hope it was The Wolf

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of Wall Street. Dawn and as the sun breaks through the chill of night on

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the plane, it lights up a biblical familiar anyone, now in the 20th

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century. Has the news made us indifferent to suffering in other

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countries. In the last five years at least 950 teachers and other school

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staff have been accused of having a relationship with a pupil. That

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figure comes from the Freedom of Information request made by Radio

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1's Newsbeat Programme to local authorities. One children's group

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says it is not surprised. But some teachers' unions say the claims are

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unsubstantiated. A teacher arrived when I was in year nine. So I was

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about 13 at that time. He was very dynamic, you know. Interesting

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teacher, who took a lot of interest in me. Ella was groomed by her

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teacher who changed her name and her voice to protect her identity. You

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know I had a crush on this guy, so I was really flattered by the

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attention and you know I was really excited that someone was singling me

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out and thinking I was special and stuff. She says it was when she

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began taking the teacher's subject at GCSE that he would often ask her

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to stay behind, and on one occasion he kissed her. Very quickly it

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turned into something that wasn't what I wanted, it wasn't comfortable

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with and things. And I ju remember thinking, I don't want to have sex

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with you. I don't want to do this. I said to him I'm not ready, I don't

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want to. I'm not comfortable and he just sort of ignored it and that was

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it, basically. And I remember after we had sex for the first time I

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remember walking home and just feeling so incredibly alone. Because

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I was in pain internally from what he had done. Ella says it took years

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before she found the confidence to go to the police. He was in charges

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related to me, he was found guilty of indecent assault, buggery and

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rape. When it comes to sexual misconduct between teachers and

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pupils there are no reliable figures. But new information

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obtained by Radio 1's Newsbeat Programme suggests at least around

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1,000 members of school staff have been accused in the last five years.

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Local authorities were asked how many staff were suspended,

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disciplined or dismissed after being accused of having a sexual

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relationship with a student. More than half of councils in the UK

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returned figures showing there had been at least 959 cases in state

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schools. Teaching unions say while cases like Ella's do happen, only a

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small number of sexual misconduct claims are substantiated. Those

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preparing to go into the profession here at Roehampton University in

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south-west London say the risk of false claims is a concern. There is

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lots of sort of hints and tips that we're given for things such as when

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you're supporting a child, or they are distressed, don't hug them from

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the front, make sure you are protected from the front, always

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from the side so there is nothing sexual about it, if anyone were to

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see it to observe it. There is lots of things like that. But it is such

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a shame. Is there a reason why you decided to go into primary school

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rather than secondary school? I just want to teach, at secondary I feel

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there are more barriers to education, kids being sexualised and

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drugs and hormones and puberty and all that, they get in the way.

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Primary they are little sponges, it is so much, it is easier, I

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consider, to teach children of that age than it would be children of

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secondary school ages. Is it fair to say you have thought about the risks

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of false claims against you? Absolutely. Like you say, rightly or

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wrongly again, I thought as a male it might be more, I might be more in

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danger of it than a female might. We have spoken to one teacher who was

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accused of groping schoolgirls. He says after confronting a pupil with

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an offensive weapon in a classroom, the group of girls made up the

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claims. It became apparent during a court case that they had colluded.

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He was found not guilty of all charges but still lost his job. I'm

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pretty sure there was an element of revenge in the malillusionious

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aspect of the all -- malicious allegations they made. I was

:19:32.:19:35.

straight away and the school was supposed to undertaken a

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investigation. They didn't, they left the majority of it to the

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police. Psychologically it is a huge impact. Them a pact, it makes you

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want to stay indoors, it makes you want to hide away from society. I

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have had suicidal thoughts. But the medication I was put on by the

:19:56.:19:59.

doctor eventually took some of those away. Luckily I'm still here.

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Financially I have lost my home. I have been homeless for a while and I

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have been virtually ruined by the process. He says he struggled for

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ten years to get back into the profession. Since 2001 it has been

:20:16.:20:19.

illegal for an adult in a position of trust to have sex for an

:20:20.:20:23.

under-18-year-old they are responsible for, even though the age

:20:24.:20:26.

of consent is 16. Child abuse experts say there is no grey area

:20:27.:20:29.

when it comes to a relationship between a teacher and a pupil.

:20:30.:20:35.

Children develop infatuations and crutches on staff members, that is

:20:36.:20:39.

how it has ever been. Staff members need to be prepared for that and

:20:40.:20:42.

equipped for dealing with that. They need to know who they should talk to

:20:43.:20:47.

and how to conduct themselves appropriately. Bottom line the staff

:20:48.:20:50.

member has a professional boundary to maintain. For Ella, she says she

:20:51.:20:55.

still struggles to sleep because of the abuse she suffered. It meant

:20:56.:21:01.

that I had an incredibly lonely addless sense, and Earl -- addless

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sense, and early adulthood, I didn't have the experiences other people

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had, and it felt like it poured guilt and shame inside me that

:21:14.:21:18.

stayed for an incredibly long time and stuff I still badle with on a

:21:19.:21:28.

daily basis. John Brown is from the NSPCC, and Mary Bousted head the

:21:29.:21:34.

Association of Teachers and Lecturers. Two very different cases

:21:35.:21:37.

there. Do you think the balance is roughly in the right place? It very

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much depends on the school and whether the school has a good policy

:21:46.:21:57.

for dealing with allegations of sexual abuse. And whether the head

:21:58.:22:02.

can go a good investigation and see if -- can do a good investigation

:22:03.:22:07.

and see if the evidence can add up. Or whether the police are called, if

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the police are called that is very damaging for the teacher. Many head

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teachers would run away from making that kind of judgment and refer it

:22:16.:22:19.

immediately to the police? The Government guidelines says the

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school loose to do an investigation and see if the case stacks up. Many

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head teachers are afraid of doing that and getting it wrong. We don't

:22:29.:22:33.

believe there is enough training or support for schools on this. How

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does it look from your side of the offence? We think there is still

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some way to go before the balance is right. Too many children are still

:22:39.:22:43.

not listened to, too many children are still not believed. We only need

:22:44.:22:47.

to look at the research undertaken at the NSPCC, underattracten

:22:48.:22:52.

worldwide in terms of the huge gap between the actual prevalence of

:22:53.:23:00.

child sexual abuse and those who talk about it and those identified

:23:01.:23:13.

and prosecuted a huge gaprms of the huge gap between the actual

:23:14.:23:15.

prevalence of child sexual abuse and those who talk about it and those

:23:16.:23:18.

identified and prosecuted a huge gap. These figures from the local

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authorities, difficult figures to deal with, but you reckon it is an

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underestimate? Given Given we know that there are few witnesses only

:23:30.:23:36.

the abuser and the child, it is about power, it is an estimate.

:23:37.:23:39.

There is a lot to do to understand it. Both of these outcomes are

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undesirable, a child being abused and a teacher being unjustly

:23:45.:23:49.

accused. You two talk to each other and decide. How do you make progress

:23:50.:23:57.

on something like this? It is incredibly difficult, the nature of

:23:58.:24:01.

sexual abuse is it is basically one person's story against another. If a

:24:02.:24:07.

child suffers sexual abuse and it is not believed that is terrible.

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Equally it is terrible if a teacher was accused. And is innocent. It is

:24:13.:24:17.

quite interesting, the cases which they say 950 case, it would be

:24:18.:24:21.

interesting to know how many of those went to court and where

:24:22.:24:26.

teachers were found guilty of what they had been alleged to have

:24:27.:24:31.

happened. The figures are difficult to obtain. It is very difficult to

:24:32.:24:35.

deal with. It is a very sensitive subject, but we can't have teachers

:24:36.:24:39.

afraid of teaching and being in the classroom. You must agree it is a

:24:40.:24:43.

very bad state of affair where male teachers are put off the profession

:24:44.:24:47.

or going into certain kinds of schools because of this fear? No-one

:24:48.:24:50.

wants that to happen, absolutely not. It is really important that we

:24:51.:24:58.

encourage men to come into teaching, to come to teach in primary school

:24:59.:25:03.

and secondary school as well. It is incredibly important. There is a lot

:25:04.:25:07.

that has been done and a lot more than we can do in terms of getting

:25:08.:25:11.

the culture right in schools, in terms of making sure safeguarding is

:25:12.:25:15.

right in schools, so teachers know what to do, if they are in a

:25:16.:25:18.

situation where an allegation is made. That the fabric of schools,

:25:19.:25:22.

the situational prevention is in place as well. Classrooms and

:25:23.:25:28.

schools for designs, the chances of teachers being in situations with

:25:29.:25:32.

children where allegations are being made and not monitored are minimised

:25:33.:25:38.

as much as possible. Those things are key. For children it is

:25:39.:25:41.

important that an early age, from the age of five upwards through

:25:42.:25:45.

personal, social and health education, and sex and relationship

:25:46.:25:48.

education in school and that sort of thing, children are encouraged to

:25:49.:25:54.

understand about the sexual abuse, about understanding what the impacts

:25:55.:25:58.

of that could be, and importantly who they can talk to if something

:25:59.:26:01.

has happened to them. Whatever precautions are in place, you a

:26:02.:26:05.

always going to have schoolgirl crutches or the reverse? -- --

:26:06.:26:16.

crushes and the rest of it? It is, and that is why we need training at

:26:17.:26:22.

prequalification and post-qualifications, and teachers do

:26:23.:26:26.

get into situations where there is a lot of hormones going around, and

:26:27.:26:30.

pupils will develop a crush on teachers. I have worked in schools

:26:31.:26:37.

and seen young men, good looking young men hounded by young girls.

:26:38.:26:40.

They are in a difficult position and it is difficult to deal with that,

:26:41.:26:44.

schools need good policies and teachers need better training in how

:26:45.:26:50.

to conduct themselves. How to, when that happens to them how to deal

:26:51.:26:54.

with that, and also what to do. They would often need support and help

:26:55.:26:57.

when that happens. I don't think there is enough of that at the

:26:58.:27:01.

moment really for both in terms of continuing professional development

:27:02.:27:03.

for teachers and pre-training for teachers. The other thing that is

:27:04.:27:07.

important is the ChildLine school service that can come in and work

:27:08.:27:11.

with children from a young age to encourage them to recognise the

:27:12.:27:14.

signs, and who they can talk to if they have worries and concerns.

:27:15.:27:21.

Aid agencies have talked about something called "compassion

:27:22.:27:24.

fatigue". The idea that people cannot feel sympathy for the victims

:27:25.:27:28.

of war or natural disaster indefinitely. But it is still an

:27:29.:27:32.

article of faith among news reporters if they can only find way

:27:33.:27:35.

of bringing the reality of suffering home to television audiences here,

:27:36.:27:40.

then those audiences may feel sufficiently moved to demand that

:27:41.:27:45.

something be done. Yet an academic report released tomorrow suggests

:27:46.:27:49.

that is not true. That people who are told in the news about awful

:27:50.:27:54.

things happening abroad, actually often remain unmoved. In a moment

:27:55.:27:58.

I'm going to ask the award-winning Sky News frontline reporter, Alex

:27:59.:28:03.

Crawford, what she feels about that discovery. First we report. Iconic

:28:04.:28:13.

images of conflict and disaster. These simple shots help shape public

:28:14.:28:17.

opinion. Maybe even changing the course of the war or forcing a

:28:18.:28:25.

Government to act. We begin with the growing desperation and devastation

:28:26.:28:30.

following the supertyphoon in the Philippines... Today we live in a

:28:31.:28:34.

world of 24-hour news, breaking from any part of the world. Good

:28:35.:28:38.

afternoon, welcome to BBC News, we start with the breaking news from

:28:39.:28:42.

Syria... How hard is it to feel empathy with and sympathy for people

:28:43.:28:47.

thousands of miles away. The research suggests it is getting more

:28:48.:28:50.

difficult. The viewing patterns of 100 people were studied over three

:28:51.:28:54.

months, those who watched short news items were found to be particularly

:28:55.:28:58.

indifferent to suffering in other countries. News items only ever

:28:59.:29:03.

offer us a particular kind of story about suffering in other countries.

:29:04.:29:07.

About who is suffering, why they are suffering and what people are doing

:29:08.:29:10.

to resolve it. That's the story you get. You will get it for a few days

:29:11.:29:14.

and then it will leave the news bulletin. If you want to understand

:29:15.:29:18.

more about the long-term consequence, the wider implications

:29:19.:29:22.

about how it has affected people's lives. Then you need to move outside

:29:23.:29:25.

the news. Younger male viewers in the study were less likely to care.

:29:26.:29:30.

After watching footage of the terror takes in Mumbai, one said "do you

:29:31.:29:35.

remember the image of that hotel? I saw it and thought I'd love to stay

:29:36.:29:39.

there, it looked so amazing". Another said "it's so far away that

:29:40.:29:44.

you tend to distance yourself from it, I do any way". Dawn and as the

:29:45.:29:51.

sun breaks through the chill of night, it lights up a biblical

:29:52.:29:55.

familiar anyone That is not to say television news can't make a

:29:56.:29:58.

difference. Michael Burke's reports from Ethiopia were rebroadcast by

:29:59.:30:02.

400 stations worldwide, going viral before the term even existed. We can

:30:03.:30:11.

see the celebrations you were talking about a short time ago. And

:30:12.:30:16.

more recently Sky's Alex Crawford brought TV viewers the first live

:30:17.:30:21.

pictures of rebels heading victoriously into Tripoli. The

:30:22.:30:26.

authors of the study claim international news coverage

:30:27.:30:30.

struggles to draw an emotional response. On the street she drew

:30:31.:30:34.

more pictures... . Longer documentaries do better, they can

:30:35.:30:37.

paint a more complex picture and have more time to hear from those

:30:38.:30:44.

affected. We have the right to live in freedom. As this graph shows, the

:30:45.:30:50.

amount of coverage given over to international affairs on the main

:30:51.:30:54.

networks fell sharply between 2005 and 2010, partly as factual

:30:55.:30:59.

programmes were shifted to digital stations. It matters on all sorts of

:31:00.:31:05.

levels. Most obvious is the basis for intervening in countries like

:31:06.:31:08.

Afghanistan and Syria has been made on the fact that people are

:31:09.:31:10.

suffering and we should do something about it. We almost fired missiles

:31:11.:31:15.

into Syria a few months ago because of the suffering of other people.

:31:16.:31:19.

And unless we have a full, rich understanding of what's going on and

:31:20.:31:23.

why it is going on and what can be done about it, then we may be making

:31:24.:31:27.

the wrong decisions. But those who have worked in the news industry say

:31:28.:31:31.

the shift to digital doesn't necessarily mean dumbing down. I

:31:32.:31:35.

don't think you can dismiss the other channels. I have just judged

:31:36.:31:42.

some awards, Al-Jazeera, and that is in every home, and it is

:31:43.:31:47.

high-quality documentaries. This is in addition to what the main

:31:48.:31:50.

channels are doing. I know viewers have to try harder to find the

:31:51.:31:53.

channels but it is worth the effort in my opinion. The question is will

:31:54.:31:59.

most viewers make the effort, or has digital technology made it easier

:32:00.:32:04.

for some people to switch off. Here to discuss that research is Kelvin

:32:05.:32:08.

MacKenzie, best known for editing The Sun. And Sky News's Africa-based

:32:09.:32:13.

special correspondent, Alex Crawford. This research rather

:32:14.:32:18.

suggests you are wasting your time, doesn't it? I'm not sure that

:32:19.:32:21.

research is absolutely accurate, to be honest. Certainly my own evidence

:32:22.:32:26.

is that people do engage, they do connect and they are very, very

:32:27.:32:29.

interested in what is going on around the world. You are not going

:32:30.:32:35.

to have life-changing scenarios like Michael Burke's report of Ethiopia

:32:36.:32:39.

every day. But he is a perfect example of how people were

:32:40.:32:45.

absolutely engaged in hundreds of thousands around the world. I think

:32:46.:32:50.

foreign correspondents, that is the challenge around the world. To get

:32:51.:32:55.

people to respond to get people to understand and to get people to

:32:56.:32:59.

engage in it. What are you some sort of social worker? No, no. Not at

:33:00.:33:07.

all. But these have implications on our daily lives in Britain.

:33:08.:33:09.

Everything that is happening around the world will come back to our

:33:10.:33:13.

doorstep. So what is happening in Libya and Syria and Afghanistan and

:33:14.:33:17.

Pakistan does and is having an impact on our daily lives in

:33:18.:33:21.

Britain. And surely we need to know more about what is happening there.

:33:22.:33:26.

A good CV for your company to send you to exotic places around the

:33:27.:33:29.

world. But the reality of it all is that most people actually even in --

:33:30.:33:42.

erodite audience for Newsnight have no idea where south Sudan is and

:33:43.:33:46.

whether it split from north sudden sap, and yet two days ago the ten.00

:33:47.:33:54.

news was leading on it -- 10.00 news was leading on it. Look at the

:33:55.:33:59.

fighting between the Sunnis and Shias, they have been fighting for

:34:00.:34:04.

1,000 years, what is the point of covering it. Look at Channel 4's

:34:05.:34:10.

fantastic documentary about Benefits Street, why not look into our own

:34:11.:34:17.

back yard where they are getting audiences of seven million for what

:34:18.:34:21.

is happening in our own country and looking at the overseas coverage,

:34:22.:34:24.

costing various news organisations a fortune and you could count the

:34:25.:34:30.

audience on one hand. People don't want, they understand eat --

:34:31.:34:46.

Ethiopia and the rest is many years ago. They won't send people out to

:34:47.:34:53.

local places to get the stories it is overseas. Justify your existence?

:34:54.:35:00.

I don't think "stick it up your junta" is really covering news. Good

:35:01.:35:06.

headline though. Your coverage of Hillsborough is very representative

:35:07.:35:10.

of good home coverage. With all due respect I'm not sure whether you are

:35:11.:35:15.

particularly qualified to talk about foreign news. I don't know what

:35:16.:35:19.

Hillsborough has do with it. There is a serious point here, you and I

:35:20.:35:24.

both know why some news editors choose to put certain kinds of

:35:25.:35:28.

foreign coverage on television. And it is to do with the fact that it

:35:29.:35:33.

appears to be exciting, there is lots of "bang, bang", there are a

:35:34.:35:38.

few dead bodies around, they think that is a lot more exciting than

:35:39.:35:42.

anything filmed in this country? Well that's not true. It is. I think

:35:43.:35:50.

certainly male editors maybe seduced by "bang, bang" but that is very, it

:35:51.:35:56.

is becoming history now. There are many more females who are making

:35:57.:35:59.

these decisions and times are changing. I just came back from

:36:00.:36:03.

Central African Republic this morning, that is a country which

:36:04.:36:07.

most people would find difficult to pinpoint on a map. Yet I did one

:36:08.:36:12.

report, what I try to do, and what many foreign correspondents try to

:36:13.:36:16.

do is try to empathise with the local people, they are right on the

:36:17.:36:20.

ground, and they try to pick stories which will resonate with people who

:36:21.:36:25.

are a long way away. I did a story about a pregnant woman giving birth

:36:26.:36:30.

in horrific circumstances and bearing in mind we don't get any

:36:31.:36:36.

response on most stories, home or foreign, I'm saying, I got a lot of

:36:37.:36:42.

response on that one where they saw this poor woman. The central

:36:43.:36:48.

African, what on earth has the Central African Republic got to do

:36:49.:36:52.

with our lives? What is it that you are going to reveal that people from

:36:53.:36:56.

different tribes hate each other and they are trying to kill each other

:36:57.:37:00.

and in some case, bizarrely trying to eat each other, that hasn't

:37:01.:37:04.

changed now. Are you trying to tell me you reporting it in some rather

:37:05.:37:08.

curious way is bringing it to a wider audience in which we can solve

:37:09.:37:12.

this more easily. There is no sign of that, they have been at each

:37:13.:37:16.

other's throats now for as long as I can remember. Alex go on? First of

:37:17.:37:22.

all Mr Kensington Palace Gardens McKenzie where do you draw the line,

:37:23.:37:26.

is north of England foreign, Scotland, Ireland? I do think it is

:37:27.:37:30.

not your fault, you will accept going there, I quite understand it,

:37:31.:37:35.

it is up to editors to say actually the audience don't want this stuff,

:37:36.:37:39.

we will stick it at the end, rather than leaving it off and boring

:37:40.:37:42.

everyone to death and leading to enormously small audiences. In

:37:43.:37:48.

essence your coverage is killing TV news? But everything that is

:37:49.:37:54.

happening around the world has an impact. For instance the killing of

:37:55.:37:58.

the soldier, Lee Rigby in Britain started in Kenya, a long way away.

:37:59.:38:03.

Don't you think people want to know a bit about that. A woman giving

:38:04.:38:09.

birth in the Central African Republic, what has that to do with

:38:10.:38:14.

anything? I think that is about being empathetic human beings, are

:38:15.:38:17.

we just going to turn the other cheek when there is a type of

:38:18.:38:23.

genocide going on? Listen you know I don't think people are happy with

:38:24.:38:26.

hearing that there are hundreds of thousands of people being killed in

:38:27.:38:32.

a small poverty-striken country and they just want to turn away and turn

:38:33.:38:36.

the other cheek and not know about that. They engage with Ethiopia.

:38:37.:38:43.

This research argues against you, ordinary people are saying we think

:38:44.:38:48.

there is propaganda, and actually we can't take any more. In a sense they

:38:49.:38:58.

have got sort of war fatigue and deprivation fatigue. I don't believe

:38:59.:39:00.

just by doing yards and yards of television, because you happen to be

:39:01.:39:05.

in some place that nobody could find in a light mist is a reason to keep

:39:06.:39:13.

you in work. That is very unfair and also not true. Everyone in this

:39:14.:39:19.

economic state that we are in around the world is having to cut their

:39:20.:39:22.

cloths according to what they have got. And that means deciding very,

:39:23.:39:29.

certainly in most companies and most television channels, around the

:39:30.:39:32.

world, they are having to cut back. And that makes them decide very,

:39:33.:39:36.

very carefully where to go and what to do. Good news for the audience,

:39:37.:39:40.

bad news for journalists in South Africa. I think we have had quite

:39:41.:39:43.

enough from you. Thanks Alex, see you. We can't make a case against

:39:44.:39:49.

you, but we're satisfied there's no smoke without fire. The leadership

:39:50.:39:52.

of the Liberal Democrats found itself in a right muddle today as it

:39:53.:40:01.

prepared to welcome back into its inner counsels a man who was said to

:40:02.:40:12.

have groped activists. The women who complained by the politician Chris

:40:13.:40:17.

Rennard think the party is being pathetic. Until last year you might

:40:18.:40:21.

have been forgiven for not knowing the name of Lord Rennard, chief

:40:22.:40:27.

executive of the Lib Dem party until 2009, he was the brains behind the

:40:28.:40:30.

election strategy. He was propelled into the headlines last February

:40:31.:40:36.

when four women made allegations of sexual harassment against him. The

:40:37.:40:39.

police launched an investigation, which ultimately concluded that he

:40:40.:40:43.

would face no criminal charges. Today which got the conclusion of a

:40:44.:40:49.

Lib Dem inquiry into Lord Rennard's behaviour, conducted by Alastair

:40:50.:40:53.

Webster QC, Mr Webster found there was a less than 50% chance the

:40:54.:40:58.

allegations could be sufficiently proven and therefore that Lord

:40:59.:41:01.

Rennard would face no disciplinary action. Evidently feeling vindicated

:41:02.:41:12.

Lord Rennard said in a statement. Nick Clegg didn't seem to see it in

:41:13.:41:17.

the same way. I want everyone to be treated with respect in the Liberal

:41:18.:41:20.

Democrats, that is why it is right that Chris Rennard has been asked in

:41:21.:41:24.

this report to apologise, to reflect on his behaviour and why he won't be

:41:25.:41:28.

playing any role in my general election plans for the campaign in

:41:29.:41:34.

2015. With us now is Bridget Harris, a former special adviser to Nick

:41:35.:41:38.

Clegg, and one of the women who has made the allegations against Lord

:41:39.:41:42.

Rennard. What did you feel when you heard what Nick Clegg had to say? I

:41:43.:41:47.

spoke to Nick earlier on this evening personally. He called me. He

:41:48.:41:52.

apologised. I take that completely sincerely. He apologised for what?

:41:53.:41:57.

He apologised for the fact that the party has found itself in a

:41:58.:42:00.

situation where its rules have been found to be completely over the top

:42:01.:42:13.

and by Byzantine and unable to deal with the allegations against Lord

:42:14.:42:17.

Rennard. When he says he would like Lord Rennard to apologise, would you

:42:18.:42:23.

accept such an apology? Absolutely. I have been living, if you like,

:42:24.:42:27.

with my knowledge about this man for the last ten years. So you know I

:42:28.:42:32.

have made my peace with the fact that he was allowed to get away with

:42:33.:42:36.

it over a number of years. Can I just say, the reason why I came out

:42:37.:42:40.

and joined the other women in the original Channel 4 investigation was

:42:41.:42:44.

because Rennard was basically creeping his way back into all of

:42:45.:42:49.

the offices and the groups of power. For example he was being invited to

:42:50.:42:53.

mentor young candidates in the party. It was at that point that a

:42:54.:43:00.

year ago my colleagues Alison Smith and Allie Goldsworthy. Clearly

:43:01.:43:10.

internal procedures have failed, we need to blow the whistle. Now the

:43:11.:43:15.

guy is being invited back into the inner circles of the party? It is

:43:16.:43:21.

ludicrous. I heard Tim Farron speak earlier, they are flabbergasted and

:43:22.:43:24.

Nick Clegg said this as well, they are in a situation where the

:43:25.:43:27.

allegations and evidence have now been thoroughly tested and have

:43:28.:43:31.

actually found on credible. Nobody is suggesting that they think they

:43:32.:43:34.

are lying. An opinion has been expressed that some people find them

:43:35.:43:39.

plausible but the balance of judgment on the part first of all of

:43:40.:43:43.

the prosecuting authorities, and secondly of the internal party

:43:44.:43:46.

investigation was that the burden of proof was inadequate? The burden of

:43:47.:43:52.

proof in a criminal case is it has to go beyond a reasonable doubt. I

:43:53.:43:56.

think that is perfectly acceptable when you are about to take away

:43:57.:43:59.

somebody's liberty, we know in a civil liberty argument, it would

:44:00.:44:03.

suggest, if you are going to put somebody in prison you have to be

:44:04.:44:06.

beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. We are talking about

:44:07.:44:10.

this man's membership card of a voluntary political party. You are

:44:11.:44:13.

talking about blackening a man's name? I think he has blackened his

:44:14.:44:18.

own name. It is not me and the other women's responsibility for how he

:44:19.:44:21.

chose to behave over the last ten years. It is his decision. But your

:44:22.:44:25.

own party didn't demonstrate that he did behave as you say he behaved?

:44:26.:44:29.

What the party is saying is that in order for an ordinary member to be

:44:30.:44:34.

kicked out of the party, for them to take away their membership, you need

:44:35.:44:39.

to be able to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that he has taken

:44:40.:44:44.

the party into dis. This is an absurd level of proof that is

:44:45.:44:47.

required. That may be, but those are the rules of your party? And Nick

:44:48.:44:50.

Clegg today has said that he will seek to change those rules. To make

:44:51.:44:56.

it easier to have some sort of kangaroo court? There is no kangaroo

:44:57.:44:59.

court, there is no reason why you can't have a civil burden of proof

:45:00.:45:05.

in the circumstances. A QC reviewed all the same evidence as the police

:45:06.:45:09.

reviewed, and the QC recommended to the party today that he thought the

:45:10.:45:12.

evidence was credible and he believed us and he thought Lord

:45:13.:45:16.

Rennard owed us all an apology. Lord Rennard at the moment is claiming

:45:17.:45:19.

that he is not going to give us an apology. Supposing you don't get it

:45:20.:45:22.

and supposing that he's not ejected from the party. He won't be,

:45:23.:45:27.

according to their rules. Will you eject yourself from the party? I

:45:28.:45:31.

have absolutely said today, if Lord Rennard isn't going to leave the

:45:32.:45:34.

party I will. I don't want to be part of a party that adheres to

:45:35.:45:40.

tribal truckures that protects its -- structures that protects its own

:45:41.:45:45.

offenders. I want to be part of a political movement and not this

:45:46.:45:49.

party. I have said today I will leave the Liberal Democrats. That is

:45:50.:45:53.

all for now you may have seen some unexpected footage we showed a few

:45:54.:45:57.

weeks ago, curtesy of the BFI, predicting London in colour and

:45:58.:46:02.

filmed in 1927. A contemporary film maker, Simon Smith, has now

:46:03.:46:05.

replicated the shots in modern London. The remarkable thing is how

:46:06.:46:09.

little has changed, apart, of course, from the curse of traffic.

:46:10.:46:11.

Good night. Hello, another spell of rain is

:46:12.:47:14.

spreading east

:47:15.:47:16.

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