Browse content similar to 15/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
A mood of "it seemed like a good idea at the time" has overtaken much | :00:08. | :00:14. | |
of the Labour Party tonight on its plans to reform the British | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
financial system by forcing the big banks to shed branches. It seemed | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
such an easy target, yet tonight the party's come over all coy. Was this | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
an idea which should really have stayed on the drawing board? | :00:29. | :00:36. | |
We will explore how common relationships are between teachers | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
and pupils. I had a crush on this guy so I was | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
really flattered by the attention. And do you remember this? Dawn and | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
as the sun breaks through the piercing chill of night outside, it | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
lights up a biblical familiar anyone this place, say workers here, is the | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
closest thing to hell on earth. Reports of the familiar anyone in | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
Ethiopia certainly had an effect, is it possible that most of the time we | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
are indifferent to television news reports of disasters abroad. | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
No-one ever lost popularity by laying into bankers. Afters had | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
attack on energy companies, Ed Miliband's latest Aunt Sally is said | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
to be the five big banks whom he wants to cut down to size and expose | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
to competition. True to form some of the bankers helped him out by | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
apparently planning to give themselves big bonuses at the | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
tax-payers' expense today. The circle that has to be squared is | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
whether a bit of populisim can some how be reconciled to a well-run | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
economy. Emily Maitlis told us a bit of this last night and is back with | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
more now. Not a superhero but the Ed Miliband muscle is being flexed now, | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
he has tried his hand with energy companies and parts of the press. | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
This week the leader of the opposition will use anies new year's | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
speech to talk about radical reform for the banks. Last night we heard | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
about plans to break them up, by maybe capping their market share. It | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
is to stop the domination of the big five names and let more competition | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
in. It is a test of Ed Miliband, he's showing courage to take on | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
entrenched interests, this being the latest one. I think there is | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
considerable political support among the broad population who don't have | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
much that is good to say about their banks. I think there is a political | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
opportunity here which is linked to an economic need. We need a less | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
concentrated banking industry. The five leading banks, Lloyd's, RBS, | :02:52. | :02:59. | |
HSBC, Barclays and Santander, have an 85% share of the personal current | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
account market. Four of them, everyone but Santander, have 78% of | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
the business market. In the savings, however, it is different. The five | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
largest firms account for 63%. In other words it is quite easy for | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
banks to argue that their market share is not always consistent, but | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
a cap would necessarily be pretty arbitary. Even before his speech is | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
out the proposal is already met with, shall we call it scepticisim. | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
The opposition are proposing specific market shares on specific | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
banks, has that ever been tried in any other country? Just breaking up | :03:34. | :03:42. | |
an institution doesn't necessarily create a viable or a more intensive | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
competitive structure, so relevant competition authorities need to look | :03:50. | :03:51. | |
at that. I make the general point that it is not just about one | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
aspect, you need to look at the entire business model. On Friday Ed | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
Miliband will tell us the brand-new competition and markets authority | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
will investigate whether there is inadequate competition between banks | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
and hint at a selling off of some parts of each bank, that is the plan | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
at least. The idea of bank being told to sell off branches may be | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
ringing alarm bells in some quarters. Don't forget under the | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
last Labour Government, when Lloyd's took over HBOS, it was told by the | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
EU to shed some 630 branches. There were very few takers. The buyer | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
Lloyd's chose was the Co-Op, a bank we now know had a massive financial | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
black hole. It is incredibly difficult, as we have seen, to force | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
banks to divest, even when they want to. We have seen in the case of | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
Lloyd's and RBS. The process of actually spinning off part of your | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
banking operations is incredibly difficult, incredibly complex, and | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
if you take branch, for example, in particular, if you want to slice out | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
a portion of your branch operation, that technologically is incredibly | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
difficult. One of Britain's most high-profile bankers told me it was | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
a very bad idea for politicians to step in and try to dictate market | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
share. They point to success stories, newcomers like Santander, | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
who have managed to increase competition, and they say the aim | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
should be to get down the barriers, rather than imposing dictate from | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
unhigh. It is not just coming from the corners you would expect, the | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
bankers themselves. Some of it seems to be coming from within. The | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
interesting dynamic emerging here is not so much the one between Labour | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
and the Conservatives, but the one between new Labour and whatever we | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
might call this. One figure from the Blair era told me "I'm sick and | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
tired of this populist nonsense, we should just let the banks with | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
banks". Clearly picking fights with business is dangerous territory, but | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
perhaps Ed Miliband has calculated if you pick the fights with the bits | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
of business he might call "predators", then the public don't | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
really mind. One area to strike a chord, the perennial problem of the | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
bankers' bonus. It is something that won't happen until 2015. Ed Miliband | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
asked the PM if he would block any attempt by the Royal Bank of | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
Scotland of paying bonuses double the average of bankers' salary. If | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
there is any attempt to pay a bonus bill, any proposals for that we will | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
veto it. I'm not asking about increases in pay and bonus, I'm | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
asking a very simple question, I'm asking a simple question about the | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
proposal that is expected to come forward from RBS which is to pay | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
more than 100% bonuses on pay. If he's not asking me about the overall | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
pay and bonuses at RBS, why on earth isn't he, he should be. Listen | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
carefully, a bullet dodge there, the Prime Minister commit to an overall | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
cap at RBS, but ignores one fact, the number of bankers at RBS has | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
fallen by some 40,000, could it be that those who are left are actually | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
getting paid more? Perhaps Ed won the bonus round in PMQs today, but | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
his big test still lies ahead on Friday. Who knows what last-minute | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
readjustments to the speech are going on now. Don't forget all | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
politicians know how perilous it is to be quoted on what you have said | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
in the past. The leader in the opposition has said what Hollande is | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
doing in France I want do in Britain! Tricky one that, afterall, | :07:38. | :07:49. | |
Ed, breaking up is hard to do. Ge Now the Labour peer, Lord McFall, | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
was a member of the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards, | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
Wheeler is a bank analyst at Mediobanca. How would the | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
realignment doing? Meaning disinvestment. Realignment of the | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
banking system so you strip big banks of branches? When this | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
Government came into power in 2010, it was charged with divesting 632 | :08:14. | :08:22. | |
branches of Lloyd's, and 316 branches of royal bank of Scotland. | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
Five years later nothing has happened, therefore there is less | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
competition in the sector. One of the issues that the parliamentary | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
commission focussed on very much was the size of banks. And we were | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
convinced that too big to fail is still to be solved. But more | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
importantly too big to manage has still to be resolved. Therefore, | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
size is really important in banks. So we have to find a way of reducing | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
size of banks. What happened with the coalition with the banking is | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
they took their foot off the accelerator, left it to Lloyd's, | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
RBS, cosy discussions at the EU and nothing happened at all. If we are | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
going to disinvest, and going to continue that process, we need to | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
have an implementation strategy for that to happen. Could that work? | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
Well it is very difficult, as Lord McFall said about getting the | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
branches sold. But I think the point he has missed is TSB, the Lloyd's | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
branch, will be floated this year, Williams and Glynns, the Lloyd's | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
branches will be floated next year. There was no buyers except the Co-Op | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
and we know that story. We have virgin money coming to the market. | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
We have Metro bank increasing its network, Tesco's and Sainsbury's and | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
Marks Spencers, this is just in the retail sector, not talking about | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
the specialist SME lenders. Competition is coming to the market? | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
Competition is coming to the market. You can't say they haven't sold | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
branches. You are still going to have bank concentration. Listen to | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
people like Andy Halden and Adair Turner, a chairman of the Financial | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
Services Authority, listen to the former governor, Lord King. We have | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
got to ensure that we have diversification in banking. That is | :10:14. | :10:15. | |
the big issue. He has just told you though will happen? You have still | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
got the banking there. It is scheduled to happen this year. It | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
was scheduled to happen five years ago and it hasn't happened. The | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
market has changed and the economy is better. I took the comments very | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
seriously, the now chief economist at Goldman Sachs, or whatever. When | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
he was freelancing and on the Monetary Policy Committee, he said | :10:40. | :10:41. | |
remember the half-life in banking is three years. We have to have a | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
policy and the politicians have to have a policy to ensure that we get | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
change. That's why the issues that have been raised so far with the | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
leaks with the Ed Miliband report are quite good. This is a | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
generational issue and we need to ensure we get the change. You said | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
it is a generational issue, it harks back to the generation in the 1960s | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
in many people's eyes? In what way? The idea that some how a Labour | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
Party can start coming into power and mucking around in a markets in a | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
way it believes? With how are we mucking about, the coalition coming | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
in 2010 and it wasn't mucking about. Give us a break! I would like to say | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
something if it is possible, I know I have a politician, as an analyst | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
I... Stop special pleading, get on with it! These branches were not | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
sold because the economy was not looking as an economy you wanted to | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
invest in bank branches. The good news is people think it is more | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
attractive, the stock markets are stronger and we can get the | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
businesses into the market. We need more competition but it is coming to | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
the market. I think going through, let's just take one other statistic, | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
if we add Nationwide into the five big banks you will see since 2009 | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
their share of deposit, a very important number, of those big banks | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
has gone up to 73%. People feel comfortable putting money with big | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
banks and they have shown that in the way the deposits have shifted. | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
Ed Miliband has become rather boy about this plan, we will see how | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
intact it is on Friday. Do you get the impression this is making the | :12:20. | :12:31. | |
Labour Party look it is an anti-business party. Someone who is | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
sitting in the equity markets that is a yes, we want parties committed | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
to business and growing business. Something I would like Mr Ed | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
Miliband to answer on Friday, we are expecting the Government to sell | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
another possibly ?7 billion of Lloyd share in March or April this year, | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
and he's just going to possibly come out with a competition inquiry which | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
will undoubtedly hang over the share price, which means we the tax-payers | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
may get less for our shares. The timing I'm concerned about it, it | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
seems unnecessary. This is an extension of the parliamentary | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
committee. We were saying it there had to be change and we were charged | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
with looking at the standards and culture in the banking industry. | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
Unanimously we agreed, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Nigel | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
Lawson, Labour Party people, we said it was a culture that was rotten and | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
standards that were low. We have to change that and for the long-term. | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
This is just what the parliamentary commission has been asking for. What | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
we have to do, Chris, is to ensure that there is a coming together of | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
the politicians and people in the financial services industry. And if | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
they were alert and up to it, instead of its here you would have | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
chief executives of banks. If you phoned for them it would be a | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
returned call. I'm sorry to say when you phone the Labour Party you can't | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
get a party spokesman on the policy? That is the speech on Friday. You | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
wouldn't talk to you when you got the leak last night. I wonder where | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
that could have come from! I was in the cinema when I get a text from | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
Newsnight and wisely I kept looking at the film! I hope it was The Wolf | :14:14. | :14:22. | |
of Wall Street. Dawn and as the sun breaks through the chill of night on | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
the plane, it lights up a biblical familiar anyone, now in the 20th | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
century. Has the news made us indifferent to suffering in other | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
countries. In the last five years at least 950 teachers and other school | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
staff have been accused of having a relationship with a pupil. That | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
figure comes from the Freedom of Information request made by Radio | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
1's Newsbeat Programme to local authorities. One children's group | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
says it is not surprised. But some teachers' unions say the claims are | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
unsubstantiated. A teacher arrived when I was in year nine. So I was | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
about 13 at that time. He was very dynamic, you know. Interesting | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
teacher, who took a lot of interest in me. Ella was groomed by her | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
teacher who changed her name and her voice to protect her identity. You | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
know I had a crush on this guy, so I was really flattered by the | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
attention and you know I was really excited that someone was singling me | :15:38. | :15:45. | |
out and thinking I was special and stuff. She says it was when she | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
began taking the teacher's subject at GCSE that he would often ask her | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
to stay behind, and on one occasion he kissed her. Very quickly it | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
turned into something that wasn't what I wanted, it wasn't comfortable | :16:00. | :16:09. | |
with and things. And I ju remember thinking, I don't want to have sex | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
with you. I don't want to do this. I said to him I'm not ready, I don't | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
want to. I'm not comfortable and he just sort of ignored it and that was | :16:22. | :16:29. | |
it, basically. And I remember after we had sex for the first time I | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
remember walking home and just feeling so incredibly alone. Because | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
I was in pain internally from what he had done. Ella says it took years | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
before she found the confidence to go to the police. He was in charges | :16:48. | :16:57. | |
related to me, he was found guilty of indecent assault, buggery and | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
rape. When it comes to sexual misconduct between teachers and | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
pupils there are no reliable figures. But new information | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
obtained by Radio 1's Newsbeat Programme suggests at least around | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
1,000 members of school staff have been accused in the last five years. | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
Local authorities were asked how many staff were suspended, | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
disciplined or dismissed after being accused of having a sexual | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
relationship with a student. More than half of councils in the UK | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
returned figures showing there had been at least 959 cases in state | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
schools. Teaching unions say while cases like Ella's do happen, only a | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
small number of sexual misconduct claims are substantiated. Those | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
preparing to go into the profession here at Roehampton University in | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
south-west London say the risk of false claims is a concern. There is | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
lots of sort of hints and tips that we're given for things such as when | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
you're supporting a child, or they are distressed, don't hug them from | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
the front, make sure you are protected from the front, always | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
from the side so there is nothing sexual about it, if anyone were to | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
see it to observe it. There is lots of things like that. But it is such | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
a shame. Is there a reason why you decided to go into primary school | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
rather than secondary school? I just want to teach, at secondary I feel | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
there are more barriers to education, kids being sexualised and | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
drugs and hormones and puberty and all that, they get in the way. | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
Primary they are little sponges, it is so much, it is easier, I | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
consider, to teach children of that age than it would be children of | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
secondary school ages. Is it fair to say you have thought about the risks | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
of false claims against you? Absolutely. Like you say, rightly or | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
wrongly again, I thought as a male it might be more, I might be more in | :18:51. | :18:58. | |
danger of it than a female might. We have spoken to one teacher who was | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
accused of groping schoolgirls. He says after confronting a pupil with | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
an offensive weapon in a classroom, the group of girls made up the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
claims. It became apparent during a court case that they had colluded. | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
He was found not guilty of all charges but still lost his job. I'm | :19:17. | :19:23. | |
pretty sure there was an element of revenge in the malillusionious | :19:24. | :19:31. | |
aspect of the all -- malicious allegations they made. I was | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
straight away and the school was supposed to undertaken a | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
investigation. They didn't, they left the majority of it to the | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
police. Psychologically it is a huge impact. Them a pact, it makes you | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
want to stay indoors, it makes you want to hide away from society. I | :19:47. | :19:55. | |
have had suicidal thoughts. But the medication I was put on by the | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
doctor eventually took some of those away. Luckily I'm still here. | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
Financially I have lost my home. I have been homeless for a while and I | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
have been virtually ruined by the process. He says he struggled for | :20:07. | :20:15. | |
ten years to get back into the profession. Since 2001 it has been | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
illegal for an adult in a position of trust to have sex for an | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
under-18-year-old they are responsible for, even though the age | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
of consent is 16. Child abuse experts say there is no grey area | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
when it comes to a relationship between a teacher and a pupil. | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
Children develop infatuations and crutches on staff members, that is | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
how it has ever been. Staff members need to be prepared for that and | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
equipped for dealing with that. They need to know who they should talk to | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
and how to conduct themselves appropriately. Bottom line the staff | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
member has a professional boundary to maintain. For Ella, she says she | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
still struggles to sleep because of the abuse she suffered. It meant | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
that I had an incredibly lonely addless sense, and Earl -- addless | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
sense, and early adulthood, I didn't have the experiences other people | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
had, and it felt like it poured guilt and shame inside me that | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
stayed for an incredibly long time and stuff I still badle with on a | :21:19. | :21:28. | |
daily basis. John Brown is from the NSPCC, and Mary Bousted head the | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
Association of Teachers and Lecturers. Two very different cases | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
there. Do you think the balance is roughly in the right place? It very | :21:38. | :21:45. | |
much depends on the school and whether the school has a good policy | :21:46. | :21:57. | |
for dealing with allegations of sexual abuse. And whether the head | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
can go a good investigation and see if -- can do a good investigation | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
and see if the evidence can add up. Or whether the police are called, if | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
the police are called that is very damaging for the teacher. Many head | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
teachers would run away from making that kind of judgment and refer it | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
immediately to the police? The Government guidelines says the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
school loose to do an investigation and see if the case stacks up. Many | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
head teachers are afraid of doing that and getting it wrong. We don't | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
believe there is enough training or support for schools on this. How | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
does it look from your side of the offence? We think there is still | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
some way to go before the balance is right. Too many children are still | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
not listened to, too many children are still not believed. We only need | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
to look at the research undertaken at the NSPCC, underattracten | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
worldwide in terms of the huge gap between the actual prevalence of | :22:53. | :23:00. | |
child sexual abuse and those who talk about it and those identified | :23:01. | :23:13. | |
and prosecuted a huge gaprms of the huge gap between the actual | :23:14. | :23:15. | |
prevalence of child sexual abuse and those who talk about it and those | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
identified and prosecuted a huge gap. These figures from the local | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
authorities, difficult figures to deal with, but you reckon it is an | :23:21. | :23:29. | |
underestimate? Given Given we know that there are few witnesses only | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
the abuser and the child, it is about power, it is an estimate. | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
There is a lot to do to understand it. Both of these outcomes are | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
undesirable, a child being abused and a teacher being unjustly | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
accused. You two talk to each other and decide. How do you make progress | :23:50. | :23:57. | |
on something like this? It is incredibly difficult, the nature of | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
sexual abuse is it is basically one person's story against another. If a | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
child suffers sexual abuse and it is not believed that is terrible. | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
Equally it is terrible if a teacher was accused. And is innocent. It is | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
quite interesting, the cases which they say 950 case, it would be | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
interesting to know how many of those went to court and where | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
teachers were found guilty of what they had been alleged to have | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
happened. The figures are difficult to obtain. It is very difficult to | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
deal with. It is a very sensitive subject, but we can't have teachers | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
afraid of teaching and being in the classroom. You must agree it is a | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
very bad state of affair where male teachers are put off the profession | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
or going into certain kinds of schools because of this fear? No-one | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
wants that to happen, absolutely not. It is really important that we | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
encourage men to come into teaching, to come to teach in primary school | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
and secondary school as well. It is incredibly important. There is a lot | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
that has been done and a lot more than we can do in terms of getting | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
the culture right in schools, in terms of making sure safeguarding is | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
right in schools, so teachers know what to do, if they are in a | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
situation where an allegation is made. That the fabric of schools, | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
the situational prevention is in place as well. Classrooms and | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
schools for designs, the chances of teachers being in situations with | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
children where allegations are being made and not monitored are minimised | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
as much as possible. Those things are key. For children it is | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
important that an early age, from the age of five upwards through | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
personal, social and health education, and sex and relationship | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
education in school and that sort of thing, children are encouraged to | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
understand about the sexual abuse, about understanding what the impacts | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
of that could be, and importantly who they can talk to if something | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
has happened to them. Whatever precautions are in place, you a | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
always going to have schoolgirl crutches or the reverse? -- -- | :26:06. | :26:16. | |
crushes and the rest of it? It is, and that is why we need training at | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
prequalification and post-qualifications, and teachers do | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
get into situations where there is a lot of hormones going around, and | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
pupils will develop a crush on teachers. I have worked in schools | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
and seen young men, good looking young men hounded by young girls. | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
They are in a difficult position and it is difficult to deal with that, | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
schools need good policies and teachers need better training in how | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
to conduct themselves. How to, when that happens to them how to deal | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
with that, and also what to do. They would often need support and help | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
when that happens. I don't think there is enough of that at the | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
moment really for both in terms of continuing professional development | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
for teachers and pre-training for teachers. The other thing that is | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
important is the ChildLine school service that can come in and work | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
with children from a young age to encourage them to recognise the | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
signs, and who they can talk to if they have worries and concerns. | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
Aid agencies have talked about something called "compassion | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
fatigue". The idea that people cannot feel sympathy for the victims | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
of war or natural disaster indefinitely. But it is still an | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
article of faith among news reporters if they can only find way | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
of bringing the reality of suffering home to television audiences here, | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
then those audiences may feel sufficiently moved to demand that | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
something be done. Yet an academic report released tomorrow suggests | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
that is not true. That people who are told in the news about awful | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
things happening abroad, actually often remain unmoved. In a moment | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
I'm going to ask the award-winning Sky News frontline reporter, Alex | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
Crawford, what she feels about that discovery. First we report. Iconic | :28:04. | :28:13. | |
images of conflict and disaster. These simple shots help shape public | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
opinion. Maybe even changing the course of the war or forcing a | :28:18. | :28:25. | |
Government to act. We begin with the growing desperation and devastation | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
following the supertyphoon in the Philippines... Today we live in a | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
world of 24-hour news, breaking from any part of the world. Good | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
afternoon, welcome to BBC News, we start with the breaking news from | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
Syria... How hard is it to feel empathy with and sympathy for people | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
thousands of miles away. The research suggests it is getting more | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
difficult. The viewing patterns of 100 people were studied over three | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
months, those who watched short news items were found to be particularly | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
indifferent to suffering in other countries. News items only ever | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
offer us a particular kind of story about suffering in other countries. | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
About who is suffering, why they are suffering and what people are doing | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
to resolve it. That's the story you get. You will get it for a few days | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
and then it will leave the news bulletin. If you want to understand | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
more about the long-term consequence, the wider implications | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
about how it has affected people's lives. Then you need to move outside | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
the news. Younger male viewers in the study were less likely to care. | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
After watching footage of the terror takes in Mumbai, one said "do you | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
remember the image of that hotel? I saw it and thought I'd love to stay | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
there, it looked so amazing". Another said "it's so far away that | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
you tend to distance yourself from it, I do any way". Dawn and as the | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
sun breaks through the chill of night, it lights up a biblical | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
familiar anyone That is not to say television news can't make a | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
difference. Michael Burke's reports from Ethiopia were rebroadcast by | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
400 stations worldwide, going viral before the term even existed. We can | :30:03. | :30:11. | |
see the celebrations you were talking about a short time ago. And | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
more recently Sky's Alex Crawford brought TV viewers the first live | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
pictures of rebels heading victoriously into Tripoli. The | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
authors of the study claim international news coverage | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
struggles to draw an emotional response. On the street she drew | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
more pictures... . Longer documentaries do better, they can | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
paint a more complex picture and have more time to hear from those | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
affected. We have the right to live in freedom. As this graph shows, the | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
amount of coverage given over to international affairs on the main | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
networks fell sharply between 2005 and 2010, partly as factual | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
programmes were shifted to digital stations. It matters on all sorts of | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
levels. Most obvious is the basis for intervening in countries like | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
Afghanistan and Syria has been made on the fact that people are | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
suffering and we should do something about it. We almost fired missiles | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
into Syria a few months ago because of the suffering of other people. | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
And unless we have a full, rich understanding of what's going on and | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
why it is going on and what can be done about it, then we may be making | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
the wrong decisions. But those who have worked in the news industry say | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
the shift to digital doesn't necessarily mean dumbing down. I | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
don't think you can dismiss the other channels. I have just judged | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
some awards, Al-Jazeera, and that is in every home, and it is | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
high-quality documentaries. This is in addition to what the main | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
channels are doing. I know viewers have to try harder to find the | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
channels but it is worth the effort in my opinion. The question is will | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
most viewers make the effort, or has digital technology made it easier | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
for some people to switch off. Here to discuss that research is Kelvin | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
MacKenzie, best known for editing The Sun. And Sky News's Africa-based | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
special correspondent, Alex Crawford. This research rather | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
suggests you are wasting your time, doesn't it? I'm not sure that | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
research is absolutely accurate, to be honest. Certainly my own evidence | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
is that people do engage, they do connect and they are very, very | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
interested in what is going on around the world. You are not going | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
to have life-changing scenarios like Michael Burke's report of Ethiopia | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
every day. But he is a perfect example of how people were | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
absolutely engaged in hundreds of thousands around the world. I think | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
foreign correspondents, that is the challenge around the world. To get | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
people to respond to get people to understand and to get people to | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
engage in it. What are you some sort of social worker? No, no. Not at | :33:00. | :33:07. | |
all. But these have implications on our daily lives in Britain. | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
Everything that is happening around the world will come back to our | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
doorstep. So what is happening in Libya and Syria and Afghanistan and | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
Pakistan does and is having an impact on our daily lives in | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
Britain. And surely we need to know more about what is happening there. | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
A good CV for your company to send you to exotic places around the | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
world. But the reality of it all is that most people actually even in -- | :33:30. | :33:42. | |
erodite audience for Newsnight have no idea where south Sudan is and | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
whether it split from north sudden sap, and yet two days ago the ten.00 | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
news was leading on it -- 10.00 news was leading on it. Look at the | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
fighting between the Sunnis and Shias, they have been fighting for | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
1,000 years, what is the point of covering it. Look at Channel 4's | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
fantastic documentary about Benefits Street, why not look into our own | :34:11. | :34:17. | |
back yard where they are getting audiences of seven million for what | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
is happening in our own country and looking at the overseas coverage, | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
costing various news organisations a fortune and you could count the | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
audience on one hand. People don't want, they understand eat -- | :34:31. | :34:46. | |
Ethiopia and the rest is many years ago. They won't send people out to | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
local places to get the stories it is overseas. Justify your existence? | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
I don't think "stick it up your junta" is really covering news. Good | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
headline though. Your coverage of Hillsborough is very representative | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
of good home coverage. With all due respect I'm not sure whether you are | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
particularly qualified to talk about foreign news. I don't know what | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
Hillsborough has do with it. There is a serious point here, you and I | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
both know why some news editors choose to put certain kinds of | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
foreign coverage on television. And it is to do with the fact that it | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
appears to be exciting, there is lots of "bang, bang", there are a | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
few dead bodies around, they think that is a lot more exciting than | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
anything filmed in this country? Well that's not true. It is. I think | :35:43. | :35:50. | |
certainly male editors maybe seduced by "bang, bang" but that is very, it | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
is becoming history now. There are many more females who are making | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
these decisions and times are changing. I just came back from | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
Central African Republic this morning, that is a country which | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
most people would find difficult to pinpoint on a map. Yet I did one | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
report, what I try to do, and what many foreign correspondents try to | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
do is try to empathise with the local people, they are right on the | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
ground, and they try to pick stories which will resonate with people who | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
are a long way away. I did a story about a pregnant woman giving birth | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
in horrific circumstances and bearing in mind we don't get any | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
response on most stories, home or foreign, I'm saying, I got a lot of | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
response on that one where they saw this poor woman. The central | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
African, what on earth has the Central African Republic got to do | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
with our lives? What is it that you are going to reveal that people from | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
different tribes hate each other and they are trying to kill each other | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
and in some case, bizarrely trying to eat each other, that hasn't | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
changed now. Are you trying to tell me you reporting it in some rather | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
curious way is bringing it to a wider audience in which we can solve | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
this more easily. There is no sign of that, they have been at each | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
other's throats now for as long as I can remember. Alex go on? First of | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
all Mr Kensington Palace Gardens McKenzie where do you draw the line, | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
is north of England foreign, Scotland, Ireland? I do think it is | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
not your fault, you will accept going there, I quite understand it, | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
it is up to editors to say actually the audience don't want this stuff, | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
we will stick it at the end, rather than leaving it off and boring | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
everyone to death and leading to enormously small audiences. In | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
essence your coverage is killing TV news? But everything that is | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
happening around the world has an impact. For instance the killing of | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
the soldier, Lee Rigby in Britain started in Kenya, a long way away. | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
Don't you think people want to know a bit about that. A woman giving | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
birth in the Central African Republic, what has that to do with | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
anything? I think that is about being empathetic human beings, are | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
we just going to turn the other cheek when there is a type of | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
genocide going on? Listen you know I don't think people are happy with | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
hearing that there are hundreds of thousands of people being killed in | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
a small poverty-striken country and they just want to turn away and turn | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
the other cheek and not know about that. They engage with Ethiopia. | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
This research argues against you, ordinary people are saying we think | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
there is propaganda, and actually we can't take any more. In a sense they | :38:49. | :38:58. | |
have got sort of war fatigue and deprivation fatigue. I don't believe | :38:59. | :39:00. | |
just by doing yards and yards of television, because you happen to be | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
in some place that nobody could find in a light mist is a reason to keep | :39:06. | :39:13. | |
you in work. That is very unfair and also not true. Everyone in this | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
economic state that we are in around the world is having to cut their | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
cloths according to what they have got. And that means deciding very, | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
certainly in most companies and most television channels, around the | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
world, they are having to cut back. And that makes them decide very, | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
very carefully where to go and what to do. Good news for the audience, | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
bad news for journalists in South Africa. I think we have had quite | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
enough from you. Thanks Alex, see you. We can't make a case against | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
you, but we're satisfied there's no smoke without fire. The leadership | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
of the Liberal Democrats found itself in a right muddle today as it | :39:53. | :40:01. | |
prepared to welcome back into its inner counsels a man who was said to | :40:02. | :40:12. | |
have groped activists. The women who complained by the politician Chris | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
Rennard think the party is being pathetic. Until last year you might | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
have been forgiven for not knowing the name of Lord Rennard, chief | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
executive of the Lib Dem party until 2009, he was the brains behind the | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
election strategy. He was propelled into the headlines last February | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
when four women made allegations of sexual harassment against him. The | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
police launched an investigation, which ultimately concluded that he | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
would face no criminal charges. Today which got the conclusion of a | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
Lib Dem inquiry into Lord Rennard's behaviour, conducted by Alastair | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
Webster QC, Mr Webster found there was a less than 50% chance the | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
allegations could be sufficiently proven and therefore that Lord | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
Rennard would face no disciplinary action. Evidently feeling vindicated | :41:02. | :41:12. | |
Lord Rennard said in a statement. Nick Clegg didn't seem to see it in | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
the same way. I want everyone to be treated with respect in the Liberal | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
Democrats, that is why it is right that Chris Rennard has been asked in | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
this report to apologise, to reflect on his behaviour and why he won't be | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
playing any role in my general election plans for the campaign in | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
2015. With us now is Bridget Harris, a former special adviser to Nick | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
Clegg, and one of the women who has made the allegations against Lord | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
Rennard. What did you feel when you heard what Nick Clegg had to say? I | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
spoke to Nick earlier on this evening personally. He called me. He | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
apologised. I take that completely sincerely. He apologised for what? | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
He apologised for the fact that the party has found itself in a | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
situation where its rules have been found to be completely over the top | :42:01. | :42:13. | |
and by Byzantine and unable to deal with the allegations against Lord | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
Rennard. When he says he would like Lord Rennard to apologise, would you | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
accept such an apology? Absolutely. I have been living, if you like, | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
with my knowledge about this man for the last ten years. So you know I | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
have made my peace with the fact that he was allowed to get away with | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
it over a number of years. Can I just say, the reason why I came out | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
and joined the other women in the original Channel 4 investigation was | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
because Rennard was basically creeping his way back into all of | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
the offices and the groups of power. For example he was being invited to | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
mentor young candidates in the party. It was at that point that a | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
year ago my colleagues Alison Smith and Allie Goldsworthy. Clearly | :43:01. | :43:10. | |
internal procedures have failed, we need to blow the whistle. Now the | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
guy is being invited back into the inner circles of the party? It is | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
ludicrous. I heard Tim Farron speak earlier, they are flabbergasted and | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
Nick Clegg said this as well, they are in a situation where the | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
allegations and evidence have now been thoroughly tested and have | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
actually found on credible. Nobody is suggesting that they think they | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
are lying. An opinion has been expressed that some people find them | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
plausible but the balance of judgment on the part first of all of | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
the prosecuting authorities, and secondly of the internal party | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
investigation was that the burden of proof was inadequate? The burden of | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
proof in a criminal case is it has to go beyond a reasonable doubt. I | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
think that is perfectly acceptable when you are about to take away | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
somebody's liberty, we know in a civil liberty argument, it would | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
suggest, if you are going to put somebody in prison you have to be | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. We are talking about | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
this man's membership card of a voluntary political party. You are | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
talking about blackening a man's name? I think he has blackened his | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
own name. It is not me and the other women's responsibility for how he | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
chose to behave over the last ten years. It is his decision. But your | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
own party didn't demonstrate that he did behave as you say he behaved? | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
What the party is saying is that in order for an ordinary member to be | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
kicked out of the party, for them to take away their membership, you need | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
to be able to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that he has taken | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
the party into dis. This is an absurd level of proof that is | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
required. That may be, but those are the rules of your party? And Nick | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
Clegg today has said that he will seek to change those rules. To make | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
it easier to have some sort of kangaroo court? There is no kangaroo | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
court, there is no reason why you can't have a civil burden of proof | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
in the circumstances. A QC reviewed all the same evidence as the police | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
reviewed, and the QC recommended to the party today that he thought the | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
evidence was credible and he believed us and he thought Lord | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
Rennard owed us all an apology. Lord Rennard at the moment is claiming | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
that he is not going to give us an apology. Supposing you don't get it | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
and supposing that he's not ejected from the party. He won't be, | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
according to their rules. Will you eject yourself from the party? I | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
have absolutely said today, if Lord Rennard isn't going to leave the | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
party I will. I don't want to be part of a party that adheres to | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
tribal truckures that protects its -- structures that protects its own | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
offenders. I want to be part of a political movement and not this | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
party. I have said today I will leave the Liberal Democrats. That is | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
all for now you may have seen some unexpected footage we showed a few | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
weeks ago, curtesy of the BFI, predicting London in colour and | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
filmed in 1927. A contemporary film maker, Simon Smith, has now | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
replicated the shots in modern London. The remarkable thing is how | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
little has changed, apart, of course, from the curse of traffic. | :46:10. | :46:11. | |
Good night. Hello, another spell of rain is | :46:12. | :47:14. | |
spreading east | :47:15. | :47:16. |