Browse content similar to 22/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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On the day unemployment fell faster than in any quarter since 1997, we | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
take you to a street in Birmingham, not Benefits Street, but Working | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
Street, to hear what jobs mean there. Employed, employed, two | :00:19. | :00:29. | |
people employed. With unemployment dropping so dramatically, could an | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
interest rate rise be on the way? More than 40 countries gather in | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
Montreux to try to bring peace to Syria. With both sides hurling | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
accusations and insults across the room, what chance talks on Friday, | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
we talk live to the regime. Independence Square in Kiev is still | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
alight after three protestors are killed. | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
There aren't just sex pests in politics, they may well be in a work | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
place near you. Anne Robinson, Joan Bakewell and | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
Stella Creasey share their own stories and their very different | :01:04. | :01:13. | |
remedies. Good evening the Chancellor claimed | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
success for Plan A, announcing that the sharp rise in unemployment was | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
evidence that the long-term coalition plan for the economy is | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
working and a claim that people in Britain are better off. | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
Ed Miliband parried with inflation rising faster than wages many people | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
are worse off. What is the truth? You may know | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
about Benefits Street in Birmingham, we bring you Working Street in the | :01:37. | :01:47. | |
same city. Employment, employed, two people | :01:48. | :01:59. | |
employed. My son has just been born, two or three days a at the moment | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
times are good, we have plenty of work on. Two people employed here, | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
employed, and they didn't answer, they were out, so maybe they are | :02:09. | :02:17. | |
work? Lazell Street in Birmingham, less than two miles for a street | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
made famous on Channel four, may not be that far from your average | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
street, most of the residents are working. Today unemployment fell far | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
faster than most economists had expected. The Governor of the Bank | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
of England had thought it would take two years to get this low. And | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
nowhere in the UK is it falling faster than here in the West | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
Midlands. This is the biggest fall in unemployment in 15 years, what | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
sort of work is being created and how well does it pay? | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
It is lunchtime and Asif is back from work as a postal worker where | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
he gets ?8 an hour. You work for the Royal Mail through | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
an agency, what sort of a contract have you got? It is like a zero | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
hours contract. Zero hours? It is not fixed. So it is through an | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
agency and you only get what you work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do your | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
hours vary, do they go up and down? They could give me four hours one | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
day and six the next. He has had the job for two months after being made | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
redundant six months ago. So part-time, what are you paid per | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
hour? ?8 an hour. About ?100 a week or there abouts. Around about that | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
much. Can you get other work while doing this, part-time work? I could, | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
I have been applying other place, no luck at the moment. I'm stuck with | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
this job at the moment. Underemployment, where people want | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
more work than they can get is falling. More than 300,000 jobs were | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
created in the three months to the end of November. There are now more | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
than 30 million in work. What is driving that here? The good news is | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
we have large businesses who are thriving locally, big manufacturing | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
organisations, Jaguar, Land Rover, JCB, who are growing and have | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
vacancies. Great, it is falling, but it is still over 9%, in parts of | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
Birmingham it is 20% plus, that is not acceptable. The issue we have | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
got is we haven't skilled up the people in those parts of the city | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
fast enough to celebrate the jobs that are coming along, to take the | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
jobs that are available. Lozell Street has visible signs of the | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
recovery we are hearing about, including the housing market. This | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
man is benefitting now. What do you get paid, do you mind me asking? I'm | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
doing it as a labour charge. So what, ?10 an hour? No, no, it is ?6, | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
?7 an hour. And is there more business now do you find, is | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
business picking up? Just nothing else. Nothing else after that? Just | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
the building, nothing else. What will you do when this is finished? | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
Going home. He may be working, but on wages like that he would be | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
classed as being in poverty. And he may not be working next week. In | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
fact, there are now more people in the UK in poverty with jobs than | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
without. We saw again in the wage data today very, very slow growth, | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
and wages still rising below # %, which is much low -- 1%, which is | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
much lower than the rate of inflation. People getting poorer in | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
terms of pay packets. One uncertainty in the labour market is | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
why are wages so low, it didn't happen in any other recession and it | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
didn't happen in the 80s and it is happening this time round, how much | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
of this is a cyclical downturn and will turn around, or how much is | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
structural and the jobs we are creating in our employment market. | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
The thought is when wages can go up, we have to wait longer and longer | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
for that to happen. The prediction from the Government was last year, | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
after the eurocrisis the prediction was next year. And now the | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
prediction is real wage growth will have to wait until 2017. In the | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
street the price of a job can be shrinking wages. But you can also | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
pay it by taking on the risks an employer by going self-employed. 48% | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
of jobs were self-employed of the jobs created. Far more than | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
previously. Craig is a plumber who has done well from the Government's | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
free boiler scheme. I'm not worried it won't last, but I have done well. | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
It is a Government-funded scheme, if they say no more funding it stops. | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
In this street and the economy people are accepting the risks of | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
self-employment, hours that fluctuate and pay that shrinks. The | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
insecurity of work is a price people are showing they are prepared to pay | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
just to have it. I'm joined to discuss what today's figures mean | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
for the economy and those who work in it by the Treasury Minister, | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
David Gauke and Labour's shadow Employment Minister, Stephen Timms. | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
By any measure of employment these are dramatically good figures today | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
aren't they? They are very encouraging figures, we have had to | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
wait a very long time for them. We were told after the election the | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
consequence of the Government's policies would be steady growth and | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
falling unemployment. We have had to wait nearly four years for the | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
figures. They are very encouraging. What I hope will happen now is the | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
Government will seriously tackle the very large number of people who have | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
been out of work for a long time. Over a quarter of million young | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
people out of work for over a year, they need help to get back into work | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
now. They need to be skilled up. And Lozell Street's example, Jahid | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
working for ?6 and ?7, actually classed as in poverty. And you have | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
someone working in the Royal Mail on a zero hours contract who can't get | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
other work. People are in work but it is not high-skilled work or the | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
work that is permanent and that you can rely? On? The first point is | :07:50. | :08:01. | |
good news, the last quarter, 280,000 more people in work, since the last | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
general election one. Three million people in work. It is worth pointing | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
out that the vast majority of the new jobs created are full-time. | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
Something like 80%. It is also worth pointing out that the average number | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
of hours that workers are working now is 32. Two hours. That's exactly | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
what the level was before the recession. So it is not the case | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
that the labour market has moved over the last six years to lots of | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
part-time work and so on, that hasn't changed fundamentally. When | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
you hear what is happening in Birmingham, when you have got Land | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
Rover, for example, who are doing incredibly well at the moment, and | :08:41. | :08:42. | |
there are vacancies, particularly talking about young people, they | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
just don't have the skills? It is an important point on skills, we do | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
have a problem in this country, which is long standing and that's | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
why there is a lot of work that's going on into for example improving | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
the apprenticeship system, far more people going into apprenticeships | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
than was the case before. It is why there is a focus on ensuring that | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
our vocational training is up to standard and ensuring that employers | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
have greater powers to ensure that apprenticeships are delivering what | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
they need to do. Yes, there is a challenge on skills, that is part of | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
the long-term economic plan to ensure that we get a wealthy | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
prosperous country with a wealthy prosperous work force. I think there | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
is a real problem here, there is a lack of co-ordination between skills | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
support on the one hand and employment support on the other. | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
People on the Work Programme, the flagship back to work scheme, hardly | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
ever get on to the aweren't at thisesship, the two systems are | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
managed separately and don't work together. That is one of the reasons | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
why we are seeing the skills problem among people who ought to be skilled | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
up for work now. Ed Miliband's point about cost of living, inflation is | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
down and actually wages are rising at zero. Nine, inflation is coming | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
down to 2%, you have lost that argument as well? I don't think that | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
is the case. You are right, inflation is two. 1%, but prices, | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
but wages are only going up at less than half of that, so the cost of | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
living crisis is continuing. The average household ?1600 worse off | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
since the election. If they keep travelling in that direction, which | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
indications are they will keep travel anything that direction, then | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
you run out of road. Ed Miliband has completely run out of road on his | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
opposition to Government's economic policies? People in your film were | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
clear this feels an uncertain and insecure recovery. People feel worse | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
off, they are worse off. David Cameron says they are better off? | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
The statistics say otherwise. There is a very large number of people who | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
have been out of work for a long time. They need to be invested in to | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
get them back into work to support the economy in the future. On the | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
question of the 7% unemployment that we had heard once that it was | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
changed, that Mark Carney said when we got to 7% unemployment then | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
interest rates would be revisited. It is seven. 1%, he has revised | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
that. Would you like to see that revised down to six. 5% or are we in | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
a position ready to put up interest rates now you are the Exchequer to | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
the Treasury? I think it is really important that we have an | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
independent Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England, | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
and the Bank of England makes these decisions. I don't think it is | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
helpful for Treasury ministers to kind of give a running commentary on | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
that. A simple answer would suffice? There is a reason why I'm not giving | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
an answer, because I don't think that we as Treasury ministers should | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
do the job of the Governor of the Bank of England. It is important | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
that the Governor of the Bank of England and the Monday three -- | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
Monetary Policy Committee set out interest rate policy. It is their | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
job to do, that and if ministers go and comment on all of that you | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
undermine that independence. I don't think that would be helpful. Can the | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
Employment Minister comment on it, would you like Mark Carney to revise | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
looking at raising interest rates at six. 5%? I would leave that to the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
Monetary Policy Committee. What I would say, if there was a | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
significant rise in interest rates there would be serious problems in | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
the economy and around the country. Those would need to be weighed in | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
the Monetary Policy Committee's deliberations. | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
Such was the hostility between the two sides in the talks over Syria | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
that US and UN fficials in Montreux said merely getting them in the same | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
room was a victory. John Kerry stated from the outset that Casado's | :12:29. | :12:36. | |
departure would only suffice in any sense. The two sides sit down | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
together in Geneva. In a moment I will talk live to the Syrian regime, | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
first here is our security correspondent. Syria, the worst most | :12:45. | :12:52. | |
enduring conflict of our time. At least 100,000 dead and counting. | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
Atrocities on both sides. So, can it be stopped? Today on the shores of | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Lake Geneva, the warring parties were brought bickering to the table. | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
Trading accusation and counter accusation. TRANSLATION: All the | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
victims in Syria are just to allow one man to remain on his throne. No | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
throne has the value of one single innocent life. TRANSLATION: The | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
media lawed these -- Laued these people, these terrorists by claiming | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
they are moderates, they know full well they are extremists and | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
terrorists. Even the UN Secretary-General struggled to keep | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
things on track. Yourself, you live in New York, I live in Syria, I have | :13:39. | :13:58. | |
the right to give the Syrian version, this is my right. We have | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
to refrain from inflammatory remarks. This is my right. The | :14:04. | :14:05. | |
quotes from today's say The expectations for these peace | :14:06. | :14:32. | |
talks were always low, the two sides absolutely hate each other. Now over | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
the next few days they may be able to find some kind of compromise, | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
confidence-building measures like prisoner exchanges, better access | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
for aid, even localised cease-fires. But the fundamental gap remains | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
this, the Syrian Government says Mr Assad is not going. The opposition, | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
especially the rebels doing the fighting say he has to go. And at | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
the moment no amount of talking can bridge that gap. | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
Then there is Iran, its President arrived in Davos today for the World | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
Economic Forum. It is a key player in the Syrian STLIEG supplying arms | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
and money to the Assad regime. The Iranian President said the peace | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
talks are doom today fail, because, he said, some countries sponsoring | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
terrorism were taking part. Iran is furious not to be invited. Its media | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
joined in today calling it a fruitless summit, a failure before | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
it started and slamming the UN Secretary-General for withdrawing | :15:32. | :15:33. | |
Iran's invitation at the last minute. If the purpose is a | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
cease-fire and a political settlement then all combatants and | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
their external backers, countries like Saudi Arabia for the rebels and | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
Iran for the regime will have to be at the table. But the problems is | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
Iran refused to accept the agenda of the talks. It refused to accept that | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
these peace talks were really about forming a transitional Government | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
between the regime and the rebels. Nor are Syria's Jihadists present at | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
the peace talks. They have accused opposition figures who have gone to | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
Switzerland of being traitors. Internationally prescribed Al-Qaeda | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
linked groups like Isis and others have emerged as the most capable | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
forces fighting the Syrian regime. But their tactics are Barrious, but | :16:17. | :16:27. | |
some may be importing their anti-western hatred back here. The | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
importance for the UK for the conflict in Syria is to resolve it | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
as quickly as possible, so any security risk to the UK from foreign | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
fighters, going over there with perhaps good intentions and they | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
will come back having been exposed to radical and extreme information. | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
And believing that terrorism is a good way of carrying on the struggle | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
here. Meanwhile Syria's human trage continues to multiply with millions | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
displaced as refugees. We are desperately calling on Geneva to | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
provide the humanitarian access, protection and system that will | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
enable us to reach the people who are in desperate need. There is | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
nine. Three million people waiting for that assistance. | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
In Syria today there was no let up in the fighting. No victory in sight | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
for either side. No political solution on the horizon. Syria's war | :17:19. | :17:27. | |
looks set to continue. Earlier I asked Monzer Akbik Chief | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
of Staff to the leader of the Syrian National Coalition that if despite | :17:34. | :17:41. | |
today will there be a sit down with Assad and the negotiating team on | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
Friday? Any way the negotiations will be mediated. The parties are | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
not going to speak to each Other directly, we will speak to the | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
representative and visa versa. The Friday session will take place. We | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
will sit there but insist that the Assad regime should admit to the | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
process platform which is the Geneva communique. They have to accept it. | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
Today his Foreign Minister's speech did not mention Geneva at all. He's | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
still in a state of denial. So we will insist that we should put the | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
document in place and should be implemented. If they continue to you | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
know not to adhere to that document then there will be big problems. | :18:23. | :18:30. | |
Would you be prepared to see a Government of National Unity in | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
Syria, which also had members of the Assad regime within it. Not | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
President Assad, but the Assad regime working with all other | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
Syrians. The process, the Geneva communique | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
sa that there should be formation of transitional governs body with full | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
authority. Now this governing body means that all the authorities of | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
Assad should be transferred to that transitional governing body. In | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
terms of the people from the regime there are people there, we have a | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
white list of people who did not commit crimes against humanity and | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
war crimes. They are employees of the regime. They cannot show that | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
they are against the regime, because they are afraid for their lives and | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
the lives of the families. We can work with those people. But Assad | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
himself and his associates and officers, who have blood on their | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
hands, they should be out of that process. This is exactly what the | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Geneva communique says. Thank you very much indeed. Joining | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
me live now from Montreux is Montreux Bouthaina Shaaban, the | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
political adviser to President Assad. Good evening. People around | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
the world, countries present in Montreux, and people in Syria want | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
peace. Do you want peace? Of course I want peace, everybody in Syria | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
wants peace. That's why we are here. We're here north to stop these | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
horrors that are being perpetrated against our people. We're here | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
because we want Syria to get back to its secure, peaceful and beautiful | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
life that we used to live before this horrid war has started. You | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
will have heard Monzer Akbik saying, from the Syrian National Council | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
side that he is ready to talk on Friday, are you ready to talk on | :20:32. | :20:41. | |
Friday too? Well, we are going to talk through the United Nations but | :20:42. | :20:51. | |
what I heard in the report with our interviewee, the Geneva one is | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
subject to different interpretations. I think the basic | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
point should be how to save Syria and how to save the Syrian people. | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
It is not about power, it is about not authority, it is not about | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
Government, it is about Syria and the lives of millions of Syrian | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
people. If we, if everybody puts that into account then solutions can | :21:16. | :21:26. | |
be found. And would that solution, as we were told, one possible | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
solution, he said, was that in any future settlement it was perfectly | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
possible that in a Government of National Unity you would have people | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
that had been in President Assad's regime but not President Assad. Do | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
you think for the good of the country there would ever be a | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
situation where President Assad would leave other people in place | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
but realise it was the right time for him to go? I really believe who | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
is going to be in Government and who is not going to be in Government | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
should be the decision of the Syrian people. After all they are saying | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
that they want democracy in Syria, and I think democracy everywhere in | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
the world comes through the ballot box, not through a Foreign Secretary | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
of a foreign country saying who should be in Government and who | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
should not be in Government it is --. It is unfortunate that Syrian | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
groups are all lining with forces that are not seeking the good of the | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
Syrian people. It would be fair to say that the Syrian National | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
Council, although they would admit that they are not the only | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
opposition force that happens to be fighting in Syria, it would be fair | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
to say that the Syrian National Council wants to have a negotiated | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
settlement. I would like to know who these people represent. We have a | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
wide spectrum of national opposition in Syria, over 20 political parties | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
and all these people were not invited to the conference. I would | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
like to know who niece people represent in Syria. Do they | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
represent the terrorists who are killing and kidnapping. Or do they | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
represent other forces that we don't know of. I think the test for | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
everybody is elections. They should go through the ballot box, they | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
should not, Syrian Governments are not formed in Geneva or Montreux, it | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
should be formed by the Syrian people in Syria, for the benefit of | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
Syria and the Syrian people. So to be quite clear that the ballot box | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
is king in Syria? That actually you would have a free and fair election | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
in a country that is widely regarded as being a dictatorship Well Geneva | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
is the one that speak about it. It says there should be no political | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
vacuum and we should keep our institutions or whatever it is left | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
of it, because the terrorists have destroyed our institutions. Then it | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
says a political process should be put in place. Everyone is reading | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
the document of Geneva and it has been subjected to many different | :24:13. | :24:20. | |
interpretations. But I think the basic... Go on. You heard John Kerry | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
say there can be no settlement, there is no legitimacy for Mr Assad. | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
If there is an absolute insistence that he goes, is there no basis for | :24:31. | :24:39. | |
any negotiation at all? I would like to ask you what do you think as a | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
western woman of John Kerry saying that about a President of another | :24:44. | :24:52. | |
country. Do you think it is acceptable for a Secretary of State | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
from anywhere to decide that a President of a different country | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
should go or stay. Do you think this is democratic or colonial. It is not | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
for me to say. I'm simply asking a question, if for the good of the | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
country, and if for the good of Syria, President Assad stepped | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
aside, would that not be for the good of the country. Which would | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
allow nine million people to return to their homes? We heard stories | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
before, look what they did in Iraq look what they did in Libya. Total | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
bay I don'ts and destruction, we have to question what they are | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
saying and why they are saying it. Any way this is not helpable for | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
Syrians, for more Syrians. If it is acceptable for these people who are | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
saying paid to stay in five-star hotel, th don't represent the Syrian | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
people, it is the people who should decide. January 22nd is celebrated | :25:46. | :25:54. | |
in the Ukraine as the country's day of national unity, overnight three | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
people died in the first fatalities since the anti-Government protests | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
over membership of the European Union began two months ago. Two died | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
in gunshot wounds, and another plunged from the top of the football | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
stadium after fighting with police. It jolted opposition leaders and the | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
President into talks. Tonight fires are still rages in Kiev, and the | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
protesters are back in Independence Square. | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
I'm on Independence Square, it is coming up to 1.00 in the morning, it | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
is cold and knowing. But there are still a few00 protesters out here on | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
the square listening to speeches. The place where the clashes have | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
been going on is a few hundred yards down the road. As you said two, | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
possibly three people were killed in the early hours of the morning. The | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
official figure is two but it is almost certainly more than that, | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
more than three. A colleague of mine saw another dead body being dragged | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
out by police earlier this afternoon. We don't really know what | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
the real figure is. Both sides are blaming each other for these deaths. | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
The Government says they haven't been firing with live ammunition, so | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
if people have been shot it must have been the protestors. The | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
protestors are saying it is Government snipers. The protest | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
leaders have been coming out today demanding that the President call | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
snap elections. Without some kind of giving way on somebody's side it is | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
very difficult to see how this situation is going to be calmed down | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
just at the moment. After three hours of talk there was | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
talk that the opposition would come back to Independence Square and | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
relay the conversation that was had. Are you saying that all that was | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
relaid was their redemand for snap election -- relayed was their demand | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
for snap elections? They have given the President an ultimatum of 24 | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
hours, and the leader of the disparate group of protestors has | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
said that if doesn't announce these snap elections then he will | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
personally lead what he called "the attack" on the square. We don't know | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
exactly what that means. I should say also there are far right groups | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
involved in the protesters, but many, many of them, the majority of | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
the protesters have been peaceful. This really is a stand-off now of | :28:11. | :28:18. | |
which there is no end in sight. The maelstrom surrounding the behaviour | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
of the Liberal Democrat peer Lord Rennard has resulted in a media | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
conversation across newspapers and social media, about the way to | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
respond to unwelcome advances in the work place and the ability or lack | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
of it to speak out about it. Nick Clegg met Liberal Democrat peers | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
this afternoon to discuss the Lord Rennard case, he was adamant he | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
wouldn't back down over his demand that the peer should apologise to | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
the four women activists who lodged complaints against him. Lord Rennard | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
strongly denies the allegations against him. For his part, today | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
Nick Clegg, speaking on LBC accepted that his party had mishandled the | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
affair. Let me about be open I think the way we handled it last year was | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
not great or ideal. On your watch? Yes. And more than that, much more | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
seriously than that, looking much further back it is quite clear that | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
when the women were first caused this distress, many, many years ago, | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
and I think in many cases well before I was an MP the party did not | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
react, the alarm bells didn't go off and there weren't procedures. That | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
is why I have apologised to them in person and publicly. So has the Lord | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
Rennard case served to raise questions about how to act when | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
faced with a sex pest. Who better to ask than three women across the | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
generations have seen a thing or two. They are the journalist and | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
broadcaster and much else besides, Bakewell, the Labour MP, Stella | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
Creasey, and television journalist and presenter Anne Robinson. | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
Joan Bakewell is some of this a generational issue? It is quite | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
clear that older people are taking the view it is not much harm, what | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
is hand on a knee between friends, it doesn't matter much. They are | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
making a fuss and it is unnecessary. And the young women who are the part | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
of the completely liberated generation are saying, I'm sorry, | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
absolutely it is against the rules, we not having it. They are being | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
adamant in the way that both sides are being adamant and they are | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
failing to see. Is that because older women there was no recourse? | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
There was no recourse because the entire culture was behaving in this | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
way. When I was younger. Did you ever face that kind of you know, | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
what was it Michael White called it the "clammy hand"? All the time, of | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
course. As a young woman without power or when you were older? When I | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
was in my early 30s I was working on television and it was quite common, | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
both guests and on the programme, would give you a quick grope, other | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
colleagues would give you a grope, report to the editor, the editor was | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
doing it. It was part of the culture. And I mean, this is the | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
response, and I'm really interested to know if Anne Robinson faced the | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
same thing. What was your response? Your response was well you grew up | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
knowing that this is what men did, some of them, not all of them | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
obviously. You learned social behaviours that pre-empted what was | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
going to happen. You got used to anticipating. You mentally | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
pre-empted it? You anticipated it happening, you could take steps, | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
move away, ask to stop, whatever. Deal with it. Which is in a sense | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
what they are still asking today, and it is too late. Is it acceptable | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
to still ask to deal with it? I think Joan's right, I think it was | :31:40. | :31:41. | |
slightly better when my generation, which was the next one came along, | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
but I can't ever remember it happening to me. Maybe I wasn't | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
attractive enough. But when I think that since the 60s such fabulous | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
things have happened for women, the glass ceilings have disappeared, you | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
know. For some women? Clever girls become clever engineers and get the | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
jobs they deserve. What astonishes me in all that progress that no-one | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
has thought that women have to learn how to deal with treachery. I'm not | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
Chris sizing women -- criticising women, learn how to deal with | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
treachery in the work place. It is sad that really clever women like | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
these Lib Dem women, clever educated never felt that they could deal with | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
it at the time or that they could deal with it and were frightened to | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
have their names mentioned so many years later. | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
As a younger woman in this mix, what do you make of that, we must say | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
these are allegations which Lord Rennard strenuously denies, four | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
younger women, why do you younger women not feel that the law is | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
there, the civil law, the criminal law there to help them? Because and | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
I think this discussion sums up precisely the problem, why is it | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
four women sitting around talking about how can we cope with | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
behaviours rather than a mix of both. Men are concerned about this | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
behaviour as well. We're not making the progress that we think we are | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
making, Anne, and part of it is these kinds of problemsment we are | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
are 100 years on with women being called rabbits for being given a | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
vote. We are only a 80-20 society, four out of five of my colleagues | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
are men. It is not any different in society, it is the same in media and | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
universities, we are a minority. I think one of the reasons why is | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
because we are asking women to cope with these kinds of behaviours, we | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
are sort of saying it is up to us to adapt to the world as it is, rather | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
than men and women to come together and say how can we have equality. | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
That is not strictly true, I am what I'm saying if women could be | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
encouraged to learn how to cope and not be bullied. How about we tell | :33:42. | :33:50. | |
men to stop doing it? Why do we have to cope? No-one has made Lord | :33:51. | :34:00. | |
Rennard think or make it inconvenient to for him to behave | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
that way. It is not fair fight. We are not talking about a clumsy pass, | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
we are talking about somebody in a position of authority who is alleged | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
to have abused that position of authority. Do you think anybody | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
would come up to any of us women sitting here and attempt to put a, | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
man put their hand up our skirt, of course not because we are formidable | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
women. Hang on 20 something starting out. Do you think men have any | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
responsibility in this debate. Let's stop finding ways of focussing on | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
women's behaviour and say what is the behaviour everyone should | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
accept, and what does equality start. It starts with women not | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
putting up with it. We have to start with men stopping. Some of the | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
response in the papers has been that a swift knee to the groin would do. | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
But actually is this not what Stella is saying, which is why should women | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
have to respond? I quite agree with her. We have come a long way, it is | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
a long journey this. It is a long journey and we have already got law | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
on board. And we want to see that. Do you think a lot of young women | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
who are harassed at the work place would even think that they could go | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
to the law. Because would they really, really think that it would | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
do them any good, either with their colleagues or actually with their | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
careers, isn't this the problem that it is still not taken seriously | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
enough? That is why it is a watershed moment. Women have to feel | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
they can do that. The reason they don't is that there are various | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
social reasons, we are living through an absolute inuna decision | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
of highly sexualised, advertising, pop music, culture, fashion and so | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
on. They are part of that view as well. And they lack the confidence | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
to do it because one they could lose out socially, two they could be | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
losing out professionally, they don't feel able to act, which is why | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
we have got to give them the confidence to know that the law is | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
on their side and so are half the population. Do you think the | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
majority of young women know that unwanted sexual touching is a | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
criminal offence? And harassment in the work place is a civil offence? | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
Even if you know that, until you are in that position yourself. I don't | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
want bomb to feel they have -- women to feel they have to be formidable | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
to deal with these situations, I want them to know they will be | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
believed and it will be taken seriously. That isn't about the | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
person themselves. We have to stop focussing on the person would making | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
the accusation, and why not a culture saying we have these laws | :36:21. | :36:22. | |
for a reason, because actually nobody should have to put up with | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
this, male or female. Thank you very much indeed. | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
The UK is the biggest western importer of a leaf called | :36:31. | :36:39. | |
Chhattisgarh, a stimulant Khat, the Home Secretary has banned t in the | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
next few months it will be classified as a Class C drug. We | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
asked the magazine and TV channel, Vice to look at the superintendant | :36:47. | :37:01. | |
for us. Khat grows on trees across South | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
Africa. For most drinkers and drug users the effects are so minor they | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
barely registered, but for the Somali community it is a way of | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
life. Every day Somali men head to their chewing cafe to chew KHAT and | :37:19. | :37:27. | |
talk. Theresa May has announced plans to ban the stuff so it all | :37:28. | :37:40. | |
might end. The talk of banning Khat has brought shivers. It is banned in | :37:41. | :37:49. | |
most countries across Europe. Anti-Chait Khat campaigners say it | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
ruins families, and encourages Somali groups. People who grow | :37:55. | :38:01. | |
insist it should be talked of more like coffee and less like the end of | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
the world. We went to meet the largest Khat importer in the UK. We | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
are importing from Kenya and Nairobi. We have 5,128 kilos. The | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
ban on Khat will be disastrous for your business? Most of the people | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
who are employed will go jobless. This is the biggest Khat warehouse | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
in Europe, the delivery of the week has been coming in. It will be | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
driven as far as Devon, Britain's Khat goes far and wide. Amazingly | :38:31. | :38:39. | |
every piece of Khat shifted from the warehouse in Heathrow was sitting on | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
a tree in Kenya 24 hours ago. Kenya supplies so much Khat to the UK, | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
that whole regions are economically relianten to. One such place is in | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
Nairobi, a huge suburb of the Kenyan capital, most recently known for | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
being the home of the Malattack in September. This is the repackaging | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
plant, this is one of ten hangers around the place. | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
How much of this whole business, all of this stuff is for the UK market? | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
Everything here is for the UK market. All of it? And how much | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
money comes from the UK here? On a conservative estimate I think it is | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
about two billion Kenyan money. You are a billionare? Not yet, we are | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
trying before Theresa May interferes. Some people claim that | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
the money that comes from Khat funds terrorism? That is the most | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
unsubstantiated statement I have ever heard. The extremists guys are | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
against mirra, they say if you are chewing it is an abomination to God. | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
How is something that they don't allow in their description of Islam | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
then take the money and fund the terror, I think that is a misnomer. | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
It is not there. Clearly people in the UK do have something of a big | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
Khat habit, four times a week this amount of Khat is flown to London. | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
We're about half way through a five-hour journey from Nairobi to a | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
place where 90% of all the Khat is grown that ends up in the mouths of | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
the UK citizens. When the UK ban kicks in, the region will go to from | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
being one of the richest in Kenya to being broke. This is the mirra tree. | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
Funny to know those dried up bitter roots that end up being chewed in | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
Kentish Town in London come from trees like this and guys picking it | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
like this. This whole place is run through Khat. How long have you been | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
growing mirra? All my life. That one is the oldest one, the oldest the | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
mirra the sweeter it is. These guys are bunkedling it up and stuck it in | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
a struck to be sorted and sent around Kenya. Every day mirra is | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
going all over the world. If it is banned in the UK it will affect | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
every sector of economy in the Meru community. Do you think that many | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
people around here will lose their jobs? A lot of people will lose | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
their jobs, thousands, we are giving money and we want to fundraise 13 | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
million shillings. If Arabs don't sell petrol can they survive? They | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
can't. One of the biggest weapons of the anti-Khat movement has been the | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
supposed link between the trade and terrorism. US and British counter | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
terror officials have claimed the trade is linked to Al-Shabaab. The | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
studies by the UK's advisory council on the misuse of drugs, and experts | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
from the UN, have found little or nothing to support this. When we | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
asked local guys who packaged the drug about Al-Shabaab, they claimed | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
it would have the opposite effect. If they ban mirra we don't have | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
anything to find, and the people come and brainwash us and say we can | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
give you money to turn you become Al-Shabaab. We will become | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
Al-Shabaab because we don't have anything, this mirra it helps us. It | :42:11. | :42:19. | |
is bringing food on the table. A We have some people here in this tiny | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
little building, smuggling it to the states on a daily basis. If it is | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
banned in the UK will you traffic it illegally? Will it be more | :42:31. | :42:48. | |
profitable? This is a box of Khat being easily transported to the | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
United States, where it has been illegal for 20 years. You stuck it | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
in a box and you write a name on it and post it to the person who wants | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
it. The most famous of all the anti-Khat | :42:58. | :43:43. | |
campaigners is this man. A UK Somali who said he once struggled with his | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
own Khat addiction. Now he broadcasts a weekly TV show where he | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
preaches his anti-Khat message. Welcome to the show. Why do you | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
believe it should be banned? It is a drug and should be banned across the | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
globe. And GoSave the Queen, finally the UK will ban it and we welcome | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
that. A huge majority of the Somali community are upset and angry? I | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
don't agree, that is not accurate, the Somali community is praying for | :44:16. | :44:30. | |
The places where people chew Khat are like this. Is this where you | :44:31. | :44:50. | |
come and hang out? This is it, whole bunch of people hanging out chatting | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
to each other, it is really friendly and chilled out, a bit buzzy. It is | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
a good vibe. We are having a nice time. | :45:00. | :45:09. | |
Just the daily Mail tomorrow morning, and more on the Liberal | :45:10. | :45:11. | |
Democrats. That's all for tonight, tomorrow | :45:12. | :45:32. | |
Jeremy will be in Davos where he will be talking to amongst others | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
Bill Gates. We leave you with a celebration of the beauty of the | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
male form in motion. Two special ballet performances next week. Here | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
is the former Royal Ballet principal, Ivan Putrov, dancing to | :45:48. | :45:49. | |
Johnny Cash's Hurt. # What have I become? | :45:50. | :46:11. | |
# My sweetest friend # Everyone I know | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
# Goes away # In the end | :46:16. | :46:26. | |
# And you could have it all # My empire of birth | :46:27. | :46:34. | |
# I will let you down # I will make you hurt | :46:35. | :46:46. | |
# If I could start again # A million miles away | :46:47. | :46:56. | |
# I would keep myself # I would | :46:57. | :47:19. | |
A line of showers will be rattling across the country first thing in | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
the morning. A bit of snow above the high ground in the north. It won't | :47:28. | :47:28. |