14/02/2017 Newsnight


14/02/2017

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We know the North Korean regime is a danger to its own people,

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but is it now out of control, and a danger

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The apparent murder of this man - Kim Jong Un's half brother -

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at an airport in Malaysia, has got everybody wondering exactly

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what is going on at the heart of the brutal North Korean regime.

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Our former ambassador there will help us to make sense

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of what's happening in the enigmatic nation.

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The National Security Advisor - Michael Flynn - is fired for lying

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This was an act of trust, and that was ultimately what led to the

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president asking for and accepting the resignation of General Flynn.

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about Donald Trump and the way he runs his White House?

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Also tonight - The NHS crisis is not abating:

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The situation at the moment is the worst I've seen it since I started

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working as a doctor 17 years ago. The real difference now is that I'm

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unable to see light at the end of the tunnel.

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We take an in depth look inside this Birmingham hospital

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where the patients stack up in the corridors...

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It is heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. The reality is, you

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cannot get them into an assessment area quick enough because at the

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moment we do not have beds to put people who are waiting for them in.

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Hello, you may not have heard of Kim Jong Nam,

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but you might have heard about him - the North Korean playboy heir,

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whose career took a dive after a botched trip

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A half brother and sometime rival to the man who was

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eventually picked to rule - Kim Jong Un.

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Well, Kim Jong Nam is dead - in strange circumstances

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He was in his 40s, living in exile and his sudden departure opens

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the way to numerous theories as to what might be happening.

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North Korea is a brutal dynastic oligarchy -

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a country of 25 million people held in the most repressive

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The strange goings on inside are always intriguing.

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But at a time like this, with a new US President

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being tested, events may also be consequential.

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Newsnight's John Sweeney has reported from North Korea and has

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Here he is on what we know and don't know about the death.

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Only a paranoid tyrant would want Kim Jong-Nam dead. But it was his

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bad luck that his younger half brother, the ruler of North Korea,

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tested high for tyranny and paranoia. The apparent assassination

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of Kim Jong-Nam at Kuala Lumpur airport raises questions, how and

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why? First, how did Kim Jong-Nam die? Based in Macau in China, he was

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returning from a trip to Malaysia on Monday, he was attacked and fell

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fatally ill at Kuala Lumpur airport. As for a murder weapon, there are

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conflicting reports. An unconfirmed source said that two women were

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behind the attack, stabbing him with poise and needles. But a Malaysian

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police officer told Reuters news agency that he felt someone grab or

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hold his face from behind. He felt dizzy and asked for help. Police in

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Kuala Lumpur are said that the murder weapon was a cloth laced with

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poison. According to sources in Washington, the prime suspects are

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North Korean agents. So, why was he killed? The best text and elastic

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murders on the Korean regime was called Macbeth. Kim

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Jong-un's hunger to rule will lead him to kill anyone who stands

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between him and his rule on power. So far, he is believed to have

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executed 340 officials. But Kim Jong-Nam, as a boy here with his

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dad, hardly cut a threatening figure. He fell out of favour in

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2001 when he was busted by Japanese authorities for entering the country

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on a fake passport, using the Chinese alias for Fat There. He told

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interrogators that he wanted to visit Disneyland. He went on to

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visit Macau as a plump playboy but a shrewd critic of his younger brother

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's regime. Without reforms, he said that the country's economy would go

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bankrupt. But reforms are fraught with danger of systemic collapse.

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What would be the effectively killing inside of North Korea? This

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is the most high-profile assassination ever conducted by the

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Kim regime and will signal the elites of North Korea that there are

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really no limits. Nobody is safe, everyone is vulnerable and if this

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was an assassination, it is very likely that it will be followed by

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massive purges. Welcome to the real North Korea. I

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went to North Korea undercover in 2013. A few months later I

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interviewed Donald Trump, who, chatting before the interview

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pauper, seemed fascinated by the kingdom -- interview proper. How

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will this relationship between Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump layout? If,

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faced by a set of circumstances that is likely to result in the fall of

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the Kim regime, nuclear weapons will be used. The regime will have no

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qualms about using nuclear weapons against their South Korean brethren

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and others. Dealing with North Korea's murderous to Rooney will

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require patience, diplomacy and sure political skill -- tyranny.

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Something that President Trump so far has shown little sign of.

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With me here in London is the former British

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Ambassador to North Korea - John Everard.

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A good evening to you. We are assuming that Kim Jong-un did this,

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is that the writers option? We don't know, all we know he is one or two

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women killed this man at the airport, was at Kim Jong-un or

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another part of the North current drought. Was it an old lover? Kim

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Jong-Nam had a confiscated sex life, maybe one day we will find out? --

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complicated. Was he a rival to his younger half brother? Some say that

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the Chinese may be thought the other one is going mad, let's put this one

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in? There were different thoughts about how North Korea could change.

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There were different thoughts, Kim Jong-Nam was a member of The Royal

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Foundation, older than Kim Jong Un, which, in Korean terms, would have

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put him in the line for succession. He had that strange trip to Tokyo,

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trying to go to Disneyland. If it was Kim Jong Un, perhaps he thought

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resistance to his rule might have less around a member of the Royal

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family and, like Macbeth, the best way to deal with a situation was to

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take him out. So killing him would be a sign of an ability rather than

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strength? He has what looks like absolute power but maybe he is

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feeling insecure rather than secure? Well, yes. Any regime, where the

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Royal family feels they need to kill members of its own is insecure and

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unstable. Is it a flailing regime which is now a danger to the rest of

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the world? A sick dog running around? Is it something that is a

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problem for everybody? It is, it is not a flailing regime, in many ways,

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Kim Jong Un has reaffirmed control. But, it is a regime that has talked

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itself into believing that the only way that it can stay in business is

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by developing ever more terrifying weapons of mass destruction and, as

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we were saying just now, chances are if they crunch came, they would

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press the trigger. You think, faced with a choice of the regime failing

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or pushing a button, they would push the button? It's not what I think

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but what they say. They have set out not quite a nuclear doctrine but

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circumstances where they would use nuclear weapons in detail. They made

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it clear that they are thinking about nuclear first strike, not just

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deterrence. Is it a coincidence that rather a lot has happened in

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President Trump's first month in office? We had a missile test while

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he was with the Japanese Prime Minister, you could hardly have had

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a more opportune moment for Kim Jong-un to say, look what I am doing

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with a ballistic missile test. Plus, this. It seems too much is going on

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for the first month -- in the first month for it to be a coincidence? I

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think the missile test was no coincidence, as the two sat down to

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dinner together, someone worked it out to the minute. Moreover, they

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demonstrated the kind of missile that would be very difficult to take

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out on a launch pad which they thought presumably is what President

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Trump was trying to do in his remark about the end

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-- about the threat that would never happen. I think that the

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assassination of Kim Jong-Nam was genuinely a coincidence and that the

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timing was determined by what they call operational needs. That

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normally he has good security around him. They had to get him at a time

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when he was in a third country, vulnerable at an airport and that

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was their window of opportunity. Briefly, how does the North Korean

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regime meant? It has too, doesn't it? It is ridiculous. -- end. How

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will it end? Nobody knows, maybe it will collapse internally, maybe it

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will eventually be taken over by the self or North Korea will simply

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drift into the Chinese orbit. -- the south. And North Korea will

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effectively become a battle state of China. John Everard, thank you.

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Is the NHS in England under unbearable pressure?

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It's been a prominent question this winter as A

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waiting time targets have been spectacularly missed.

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So what's it like trying to run one of the largest single site

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We'll talk to the woman running the huge Queen Elizabeth Hospital

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But first - we can give you a most extraordinary view

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inside that hospital - both as patients come into A

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and as they are discharged from the hospital, or not.

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Nick Blakemore was given access to Queen Elizabeth's and spent

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So, we are just talking two beds on five and four? Right, I think what

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you need to do... Are the others on ward rounds, still? I think that

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Karen and you need to target those ward rounds to say, look, it is

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Monday night, we will be faced with no capacity if we do not discharge.

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That would mean we are really struggling.

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In the words of Lionel Richie, this could be all night long! I would say

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it is acceptable levels at the moment. We do not have the capacity

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in the hospital. You don't have any capacity? Is that acceptable? How

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things are at the moment, it is considered acceptable. We have a

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long queue in the corridor, this is considered acceptable at the moment.

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Not for me. I do not think corridor medicine should be acceptable in any

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developed country. I woke up and had a chest pain and it got bad, I

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pressed my button... Your emergency button? And I ended up in here. We

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arrived here at about 7:20am this morning. We have had fantastic care

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all morning. Doctors and nurses, blood tests, and she is now waiting

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to be admitted to a clinical dependency unit. But we are just

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waiting for a bed now. So obviously we've ended up in the corridor...

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And we don't know how long we will be here now. How do you feel about

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that? Well, it is a bit alarming, that you are in the corridor where

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there is current through fair and everything going on which isn't good

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for someone who is 90 this year. How do you feel? I'm a bit sorry my

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chest, but I'm fine. Can you have a look at that patient over there? She

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feels wheezy. She's been assessed in the last five minutes. I will let

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you discuss that. I will let my nursing charge no, her saturations

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are technically within normal limits. How long have you been

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waiting in the corridors? Just five minutes. Five minutes. Five minutes?

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OK. What have you been told? She won't be long. The patient is

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complaining of shortness of breath, my colleague assessed terrorism

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-- my colleague assessed her, and technically her saturations are OK.

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She may feel wheezy but because her saturations are normal, I cannot do

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anything else or provide medication in the corridor, especially because

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she is in a wheelchair without an oxygen tank.

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For the time being, she will have to wait until she is assessed again by

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a doctor. Are you

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two clear about why you are here today? We talked about equipment you

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need at home, and by understand is clearing a space at home is the

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first thing that needs to happen? Is that right? Yes, I am trying to

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move, dismantle, a table and chairs for six people. The doctors have

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said that you medically fit to not be here. They reckon that you well

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enough to be at home. When we spoke last week, said that you were going

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to speak to your neighbour about clearing the space. They haven't

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been in. They haven't been there. When I've been there, they haven't

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been. The difficulty that we have here is that we are using an Acute

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Hospital bed, OK? And we need to be making sure that the discharge is

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moved on as quickly as possible. I'm sure that you are aware and have

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seen in the national news and media hospitals are at breaking point. The

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beds are a precious resource and we need to be... We have to be seen to

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be making sure that we are, you know, moving people along. It seems

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there has been a long delay of two weeks now, so the only alternative

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that I can see would be making contact with CCG, that we can use as

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an alternative place for you to wait, a nursing home.

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I have seen nursing homes. My mum died and one. There is no easy

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answer. There is no easy answer. Thank you for making the time to

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meet with us. No problem. You're welcome. The hospital had got to the

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point where we were struggling to find beds for people coming in

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through the doors and it is very much about looking at ways that were

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needed to make beds available so that we could ease the pressure that

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the hospital was going through. I have got a brain tumour. I kept on

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collapsing at home. He kept on collapsing and we kept on having to

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pick him up. From there, it has got worse. He was admitted by the

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hospital, because he collapsed while he was here. I want to go home. I am

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fed up of being here. You are bored here, aren't you? It is upsetting

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me. It's all right. This told me I've only got two months to live.

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That is the problem. It cannot be corrected and he only has two months

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to live. We have been told two months. It could go longer. Couldn't

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it? It could. We don't know. That is why you want to go home. So that he

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can go home and just chill out in front of the telly. With my sun. In

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Andy's case, I think if honour was possibly struggling with his

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diagnosis, he has deteriorated quite quickly over a short period of time

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and my understanding is that they do have a ten-year-old sun also living

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at home and clearly Yvonne was struggling with the vast change in

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handy. You are having a laugh, aren't you? You have to. Thank you.

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Who is waiting for a medical bed so I can pull them from CD you? My role

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is to take overall management of the hospital. Maintain safety of all the

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patients. Give me a list. Making sure that a and E flows correctly

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and they are not bottlenecked waiting for beds. We are amazed that

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back in with the patients out. Let me phone and find out what is going

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on with this stroke bed. When this hospital was built it was based on

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150 people attending A and we are around about that in a 24-hour

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period and most people we are seeing sometimes up to 400 people. The

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mathematics does not work out. We have -73 beds. There are 17 people

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waiting in A for a medical bed. There is one for renal. It has been

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way off at the moment. That is not a good position for us to be at this

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time. Right now, we are struggling in the middle of winter with delayed

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transfers. They are taking 105 beds today. These are patients that

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should be looked after in a care home? In some cases, in their own

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home with a package of care and we are waiting for social workers who

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are very stretched to come and put arrangements in place for those

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patients. This ward was set up seven years ago and is for people who are

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what we call delayed transfers of care. These are people who are

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trapped in the hospital because there is not sufficient care in the

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community. Hello! Hallow, Beryl. The situation at the moment is the worst

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I have seen it since I qualified and start working as a doctor 17 years

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ago. The real difference now is that I am unable to see light at the end

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of the tunnel. You have been in hospital, it has been a long time,

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you were in and then you are home for about 24 hours and then you came

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back in. They brought her here. When she took ill. She is quite well. You

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were not ill when you came in, it was the day after, the trauma of

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being at home... There is a pain in my knee now. Rheumatism. I will see

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if there is something more we can do about it. Beryl and Les have been

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married for over 65 years and they are currently separated because

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there is no capacity within the social care system to provide a bed

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where Beryl can be looked after nearer to her home or even to

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provide a level of support at home that would enable Beryl to keep

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living in her own house with her husband. It will be nice to know,

:21:26.:21:32.

actually, what is intended. What has been happening? Well, at the moment,

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you're not sure whether there will be a nice place for Beryl to go to.

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You tried home, didn't you, and it didn't work and that is how you

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ended up back here and that is why you have been looking at care homes.

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I wish I could care for her at home. I really do. It would be wonderful.

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Hallow. Is it violate? My name is Claire and I am one of the site

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managers here. We have got you a bed on 304, the doctors here want you to

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go up to the specialist ward. Tonight, we will be moving you up

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there. That's all right. Is that all right? I know someone else has just

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said that. She was admitted to A with chest pains and symptoms that

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looked like a stroke and although the stroke symptoms have resolved,

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she has been left with some cardiology symptoms and that is why

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the medics down here want to have a specialist bed which is in

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cardiology and we have managed to achieve that for her tonight. I have

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been looked after fine. I am waiting to go to a nice word now. When I

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found you earlier, you were in the corridor. This is better. Yes. They

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are a movie me again now. So, it will be nice. Howley people have we

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got in the corridor? Six. Six in the corridor and two en route.

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I have been doing A for about three years and when I first

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started, there was no one on the corridor at all and everyone was

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moved into a cubicle straightaway. It is different now. What do you

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think about that? It is a shame. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Because

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you want to get them into an assessment area and get them

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assessed quickly. No one here wants to see people waiting on trolleys

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but the reality is you cannot get them into an assessment area quickly

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enough because at the moment they do not have the beds to put the people

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who are waiting on beds in. It has changed, we did not have this, it is

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a reflection on the volume of people arriving. Is this our medical alert?

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Nick Blakemore there at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham.

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I'm joined now by Dame Julie Moore who started out as a graduate nurse,

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and who has been Chief Executive of the Trust which runs

:24:26.:24:28.

Thank you for coming in. Thank you for the access. No one envies you

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the job. Do you think this winter was exceptionally bad? There was not

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a flu crisis or do we just expect that this is what it is like now?

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The pressures have been rising for the past three years but in

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Birmingham, this past winter has been particularly bad because we saw

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significant pressures and social care and the closure of our

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community discharge beds. There were about 300 beds in Birmingham and 100

:25:04.:25:09.

were closed in the autumn and that has been the single biggest impact

:25:10.:25:12.

on our ability to discharge patients and free up the beds. Others coming

:25:13.:25:18.

back at some point? On Friday I had a discussion with NHS England about

:25:19.:25:21.

trying to recommission those beds. That might take time to get the

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staff to do that. Do you ever get frustrated working, is it too

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monolithic, is it too fragmented? Do I get frustrated, every single day.

:25:37.:25:43.

It is way too fragmented. This is not a A problem, this is a health

:25:44.:25:47.

system problem and the staff do a great job and often, we have had a

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lot of bad press, but every single professional group, every

:25:53.:25:55.

occupational group in the hospital has risen to try and cope with the

:25:56.:25:58.

additional patients coming through the doors. I am so proud of them for

:25:59.:26:03.

what they have done. But we are not responsible for social care, that is

:26:04.:26:07.

the local authority. I talked to a lady in A this morning who said I

:26:08.:26:09.

rang my GP and could not get an

:26:10.:26:24.

appointment for three weeks, I have come here and I know I should not.

:26:25.:26:27.

You're stuck between inadequate GP service, inadequate social care, you

:26:28.:26:30.

are the bit where people can turn up and you have to see them on demand,

:26:31.:26:33.

with a weight. Ye have people coming through the door. We are the one

:26:34.:26:35.

part that never closes. There is a simple question, am I being stupid?

:26:36.:26:40.

Could you build a wing, could you build your own care home, it would

:26:41.:26:43.

be much cheaper than the acute beds in which you're keeping people and

:26:44.:26:48.

keep them there? I would love to do that. There is no capital to build

:26:49.:26:52.

anything at the moment. What we have done at the moment at the Queen

:26:53.:26:58.

Elizabeth Hospital is we have opened every possible bed. There were 200

:26:59.:27:02.

beds more than it should have in the new building and we opened up the

:27:03.:27:06.

older building we were supposed to vacate and for a time we ran several

:27:07.:27:09.

wards in there for people who really required the kind of rehab care. The

:27:10.:27:16.

problem now is, we cannot get staff, there is not enough staff for it and

:27:17.:27:20.

we do not get funded to provide that care and there was more money in the

:27:21.:27:23.

past, there is far less money available now, we do not get the

:27:24.:27:28.

funding to do it, we have not got the capital although we are

:27:29.:27:31.

converting wards. It is much more expensive to keep people in your

:27:32.:27:36.

hospital. This is a fragmentation problem. It is expensive for you to

:27:37.:27:39.

keep people in acute beds and it would be cheaper if the people

:27:40.:27:43.

responsible for social care took the responsibility but instead of giving

:27:44.:27:47.

them the money to do that, we are wasting money on acute beds for

:27:48.:27:59.

people who do not need or want an acute bed. Actually it is sometimes

:28:00.:28:01.

harmful to do that. It is too fragmented. I would love to be able

:28:02.:28:04.

to take the health pathway. It breaks my heart to see an elderly

:28:05.:28:09.

couple being separated because this society cannot provide a facility to

:28:10.:28:12.

allow America bill to be together. That is not correct or write at all

:28:13.:28:16.

and we should not put up with it. Could you do it if they give you the

:28:17.:28:23.

money? Yes. That is interesting. Your budget this year, are you going

:28:24.:28:32.

to hit it? The answer is no, isn't it? You do not want to tell the

:28:33.:28:36.

Department of Health now, but that's basically it. Because of the

:28:37.:28:40.

pressures we have seen coming through, when we admit more patience

:28:41.:28:44.

through the emergency department, if we had them over and above a certain

:28:45.:28:50.

level, 12 or 13, more patients are admitted, we only get paid 70% of

:28:51.:28:55.

Tara. The government gets a discount. It also means we have

:28:56.:28:59.

cancelled elective activity which we are not getting paid for any more

:29:00.:29:02.

and to hit those targets we have to find another way of doing that work.

:29:03.:29:06.

We have not worked through the budgetary pressures. My

:29:07.:29:13.

understanding is that you have a sustainability and transformation

:29:14.:29:16.

plan to improve everything by 2020 and that plan is that Birmingham

:29:17.:29:20.

hospitals find another ?300 million worth of cuts. Let's face it, demand

:29:21.:29:27.

carries on going up, there is not much reason to think that things

:29:28.:29:32.

will change apart from these care beds coming back, you are already

:29:33.:29:36.

busting the budget and you have to find 300 million more between you

:29:37.:29:41.

and other Birmingham hospitals by 2020. It is ridiculous. When you say

:29:42.:29:47.

it like that... Since I have been in management, a very long time,

:29:48.:29:51.

because I am really old, we have been saying we are provide more care

:29:52.:29:55.

outside hospitals and we have not. We need to get real and do that and

:29:56.:30:01.

really build the kind of facilities. We talked about patients coming in

:30:02.:30:05.

and a lot of the patients could have had care elsewhere but it is not

:30:06.:30:09.

available and none of those patients did not need care, they all need

:30:10.:30:13.

care, but there is no alternative available at the moment and we need

:30:14.:30:17.

to provide the alternatives. There are other organisations who are

:30:18.:30:20.

supposed to provide the alternatives and we need to make that real and

:30:21.:30:23.

enough capacity so that patients have not got A as a last resort.

:30:24.:30:34.

Our patients dying for bad care because you do not have the right

:30:35.:30:38.

resources? No, one of the things that staff have done very well is

:30:39.:30:43.

manage quality of care and safety through that, sometimes we've let

:30:44.:30:47.

waiting times goes so if they know a patient is save to wait six hours,

:30:48.:30:52.

we prioritise safety and quality every time over any target. You know

:30:53.:30:58.

Jeremy Hunt, you are part of a big health system in the Midlands, you

:30:59.:31:06.

met him today? Yes, he saw an Spectre read three staff at one of

:31:07.:31:13.

the hospitals, he appreciated the problems -- he saw emergency staff.

:31:14.:31:17.

Several patients do not have the social workers assigned to do their

:31:18.:31:21.

assessments, never mind finding careful some people. We were able to

:31:22.:31:25.

explain a lot of the frustrations that we feel in Birmingham.

:31:26.:31:28.

Sometimes it is often portrayed as hospitals just need to a grip.

:31:29.:31:34.

Throughout all this, with all of the patients that we have with delayed

:31:35.:31:39.

transfers of care, and in December we lost 4000 bed days, we have

:31:40.:31:43.

managed to reduce the length of stay by making the rest of the hospital

:31:44.:31:47.

far more efficient and what we do, a great testament to the staff in

:31:48.:31:51.

everything that they do. We are reducing length of stay and being

:31:52.:31:54.

very efficient and what we do. But we need to crack this problem. Not

:31:55.:32:02.

because of the money and the beds as the main driver, because it is not

:32:03.:32:04.

good care for patients. Dame Julie Moore, thank you.

:32:05.:32:07.

And Dame Julie Moore will be taking your questions

:32:08.:32:09.

about the state of hospitals right after we come off air.

:32:10.:32:12.

That's on the BBC Newsnight Facebook page.

:32:13.:32:23.

Three and a half weeks into the Trump reign,

:32:24.:32:25.

and we have a resignation - his National Security Advisor,

:32:26.:32:28.

General Michael Flynn has gone over a scandal involving possibly illicit

:32:29.:32:34.

and inappropriate talks with the Russians back in December.

:32:35.:32:38.

The affair gives us another clue as to the strengths

:32:39.:32:42.

and vulnerabilities of the administration.

:32:43.:32:43.

First the strengths: the new president is keen to get

:32:44.:32:46.

things done and is willing to cut through the stuffy conventions

:32:47.:32:50.

Well, actually those strengths are also the weaknesses.

:32:51.:32:54.

Those stuffy conventions that perhaps obstruct

:32:55.:32:55.

you getting things done, also prevent cock-ups.

:32:56.:33:03.

This man is the latest of those cock-ups.

:33:04.:33:05.

Michael Flynn, the National Security Adviser controversial even back

:33:06.:33:11.

I have called on Hillary Clinton to drop out of the race.

:33:12.:33:19.

Because she, she put our nation's security at extremely high risk.

:33:20.:33:23.

For some, he broke a law himself, jumping the gun and talking

:33:24.:33:33.

to Russia about sanctions before Trump was President.

:33:34.:33:36.

It is that he reportedly lied about it to White House officials.

:33:37.:33:41.

The issue is not whether or not what he discussed, there has been

:33:42.:33:44.

a complete review of that and there is no issue with that.

:33:45.:33:51.

The issue is whether or not he failed to properly inform

:33:52.:33:54.

the Vice President or not be honest with him or not remember it.

:33:55.:33:57.

That's the plain and simple issue and when he lost

:33:58.:33:59.

trust with the President, that's when the President asked

:34:00.:34:01.

But the handling of the case raises plenty of questions

:34:02.:34:10.

For one thing, Trump was told weeks ago about General Flynn and yet

:34:11.:34:14.

waited until there was a public outcry before sacking him.

:34:15.:34:16.

A tad indecisive for someone so capable of firing people.

:34:17.:34:20.

And also why did the President deny he knew anything about the affair

:34:21.:34:23.

What about the reports that General Flynn had a conversation

:34:24.:34:32.

The President wants to get things done, but action and orientation can

:34:33.:34:54.

end up looking perilously close to making it up as you go along.

:34:55.:34:57.

The picture of Team Trump at dinner at his resort,

:34:58.:35:01.

responding to a North Korean missile test with the Japanese

:35:02.:35:06.

Prime Minister in tow, all in front of other diners,

:35:07.:35:08.

gives a picture of extreme informality.

:35:09.:35:14.

Was Mr Flynn's off piste conversation with the Russian

:35:15.:35:21.

ambassador a sign of an unhealthily close relationship?

:35:22.:35:25.

It was back in December, President Obama imposed extra

:35:26.:35:30.

sanctions on Russia as a punishment for interference in the US election.

:35:31.:35:33.

Surprisingly, Mr Putin did not retaliate.

:35:34.:35:37.

Is it coincidence that it was around then that Michael Flynn

:35:38.:35:40.

There's lot more you could say - the leaks that are coming out

:35:41.:35:46.

of Washington that have brought this to public attention,

:35:47.:35:48.

the fact that Donald Trump appeared to deny any knowledge of the affair,

:35:49.:35:51.

What are we learning about the White House?

:35:52.:36:06.

Why did it take him so long to deal with this, he knew that the guy had

:36:07.:36:17.

lied to the vice president, why didn't he sack him there and then? I

:36:18.:36:21.

think he had to find out the extent of it. The last week, reporters have

:36:22.:36:26.

spoken to President Trump and said, have you seen this report? They

:36:27.:36:33.

sourced another journalist, not a national security adviser, as to

:36:34.:36:36.

whether he had seen anything official. He would not say I saw it

:36:37.:36:41.

in the newspapers or media, we do not know everything. We are just

:36:42.:36:46.

going along with speculations and rumours and points right now as to

:36:47.:36:49.

what the situation was and you knew what. You say that but we know that

:36:50.:36:55.

Donald Trump has known for weeks, and on Friday he said he did not

:36:56.:37:00.

know anything about it. It's an important question about his

:37:01.:37:03.

presidency, we are used to Trump, we know that he says things and then

:37:04.:37:08.

contradicts it. As President, do you think you can behave like he did as

:37:09.:37:12.

a candidate, say things that just are not true? I do not think that is

:37:13.:37:17.

what President Trump is doing. You had to look at what this is. If we

:37:18.:37:22.

are going over to the General Flynn situation itself, nothing illegal

:37:23.:37:26.

was done. He resigned because of the trust issue that may have happened

:37:27.:37:32.

with Vice President pence and him going out and telling a lie on his

:37:33.:37:36.

behalf, being told that was the problem. It had nothing to do with

:37:37.:37:40.

the national-security issues, as stated by the New York Times

:37:41.:37:45.

yesterday, it was a wiretap. There is a transcript of everything that

:37:46.:37:49.

was said between General Flynn and the Ambassador of Russia, and it has

:37:50.:37:52.

been gone over by officials and there was no security risk. It's

:37:53.:37:58.

about political grandstanding by Democrats who smell blood in the

:37:59.:38:02.

water, and unfortunately, this shark is actually going to bite them in

:38:03.:38:04.

the very end. But I cannot help but think that you have not

:38:05.:38:13.

answered my question, Trump lead that he had lied to the vice

:38:14.:38:17.

president. Why did he wait until it was a big public for Rory to sack

:38:18.:38:22.

General Flynn? He was tough, he could have sacked him two weeks ago.

:38:23.:38:26.

He does not have to listen to the public, why does he have to wait for

:38:27.:38:31.

the public to make a fuss and then sack General Flynn? It came down to

:38:32.:38:36.

vice president Pence. The conversation happened between

:38:37.:38:40.

General Flynn and vice president Pence. It was the trust issue that

:38:41.:38:47.

vice president Pence needed between him and the security team. We don't

:38:48.:38:50.

know whether it was him who said that it was time to dismiss General

:38:51.:38:54.

Flynn. These are conversations behind the scenes. I'm not guessing

:38:55.:38:59.

you would have been so forgiving if this was the Obama security Pfizer.

:39:00.:39:07.

Does it tell us, as many as The Papers are saying, that this is just

:39:08.:39:18.

some of the chaos that plagues the administration, as says The

:39:19.:39:21.

Washington Post? Yes, I agree that there is more chaos in this

:39:22.:39:25.

administration than in the past. One of the reasons is that President

:39:26.:39:31.

Trump kept them from the Obama administration with their jobs.

:39:32.:39:35.

Until President Trump goes in and takes out those who do not have an

:39:36.:39:40.

American interest at heart and puts in his own people and gets fully

:39:41.:39:43.

staffed, thanks to Congress and the Democrats finally confirming

:39:44.:39:47.

everyone he put through, we will continue to see the chaos

:39:48.:39:54.

distracting the president from his mission of putting America first and

:39:55.:39:58.

securing the Borders and allowing families to prosper and thrive for

:39:59.:40:02.

themselves. Thank you. Time now for Viewsnight -

:40:03.:40:06.

where we let those with strong Tonight it's the turn of Canadian

:40:07.:40:09.

journalist Graeme Wood. He's the author of a new book

:40:10.:40:13.

"The Way of Strangers - It's a provocative piece -

:40:14.:40:16.

and tomorrow we'll bring you the counter argument made

:40:17.:40:20.

by the academic Tariq Ramadan. Like it or not, the rise of the

:40:21.:40:30.

Islamic State is the modern Reformation. It is tempting to view

:40:31.:40:39.

the rise of the Islamic State narrowly...

:40:40.:42:10.

Graeme Wood there, and a balancing view will come tomorrow.

:42:11.:42:13.

Some rain in the next few days but plenty of dry weather as well. We

:42:14.:42:31.

start the

:42:32.:42:32.

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