16/02/2017 Newsnight


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS


16/02/2017

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 16/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Is the President on the verge of a nervous breakdown?

:00:00.:00:00.

Tomorrow they will say, "Donald Trump rants

:00:07.:00:10.

I'm not ranting and raving, I'm just telling you you're dishonest people.

:00:11.:00:16.

I love this, I'm having a good time doing it.

:00:17.:00:21.

Tomorrow the headlines are going to be, "Donald Trump rants and raves".

:00:22.:00:25.

There was an extraordinary press conference this evening -

:00:26.:00:31.

it sounded a bit like ranting and raving, as President Trump tried

:00:32.:00:34.

to show his administration is on the right track.

:00:35.:00:39.

Politically, it would be unpopular for a politician to make a deal.

:00:40.:00:42.

I can't believe I'm saying I'm a politician, but I guess

:00:43.:00:45.

We'll ask if it was strange as it looked, or if this is just

:00:46.:00:50.

Then, at the other extreme, there is the Theresa May

:00:51.:00:54.

approach to communication - not to have any.

:00:55.:00:57.

We'll ask if that looks business-like, or simply leaves

:00:58.:01:03.

The acclaimed and Oscar-nominated film Moonlight.

:01:04.:01:21.

We speak to the man who wrote the story.

:01:22.:01:31.

We all know that President Trump's way of communicating breaks

:01:32.:01:35.

80 minutes of press conference that, at times came across as a bit

:01:36.:01:43.

There were, buried within, some substantive messages.

:01:44.:01:47.

He said his administration is a fine-tuned machine,

:01:48.:01:49.

the travel ban was introduced smoothly, he knows of no contact

:01:50.:01:52.

Also, he's achieved a lot for jobs and security.

:01:53.:02:01.

But the core was not all that, it was him lashing out at the press,

:02:02.:02:04.

fake news, the leaks, judges, the Democrats, the state

:02:05.:02:07.

of the world that he inherited, and the press some more.

:02:08.:02:11.

I'm not sure how well short sound bites capture it,

:02:12.:02:13.

Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States. I'm here today

:02:14.:02:30.

to update the American people on the incredible progress that has been

:02:31.:02:34.

made in the last four weeks, since my inauguration. The press has

:02:35.:02:40.

become so dishonest that if we don't talk about it, we are doing a

:02:41.:02:44.

tremendous disservice to the American people. I turn on the TV,

:02:45.:02:49.

open newspapers and see stories chaos. Chaos. Yet it is the exact

:02:50.:02:59.

opposite. This administration is running like a fine tuned machine.

:03:00.:03:05.

President Putin called me up, very nicely, to congratulate me on

:03:06.:03:08.

winning the election. He then called me up extremely nicely to

:03:09.:03:13.

congratulate me on the inauguration, which was terrific. And the leaks

:03:14.:03:19.

are absolutely real. The news is fake, because so much of the news is

:03:20.:03:23.

fake. But I'm having a good time. Tomorrow they will say, Donald Trump

:03:24.:03:28.

rants and raves at the press. I'm not ranting and raving, I'm just

:03:29.:03:31.

telling you, your dishonest people. But I'm not ranting and raving. I'm

:03:32.:03:36.

having a good time doing it. Tomorrow the headlines are going to

:03:37.:03:40.

be, Donald Trump rants and raves. I'm not ranting and raving. We had

:03:41.:03:45.

Hillary Clinton give Russia 20% of the uranium in our country. You know

:03:46.:03:52.

what uranium is, right? It's a thing called nuclear weapons and other

:03:53.:03:56.

things, like lots of things are done with uranium, including some bad

:03:57.:04:00.

things. Politically, it would be unpopular for a politician to make a

:04:01.:04:04.

deal. I can't believe I'm saying I'm a politician, I guess that's what I

:04:05.:04:09.

am now. There have been reports that 48 bomb threats have been made

:04:10.:04:12.

against Jewish centres across the country in the last couple of weeks.

:04:13.:04:19.

There are people that are committing anti-Semitic acts... He said he was

:04:20.:04:22.

going to ask a simple, easy question and it's not. Not a simple question,

:04:23.:04:26.

not a fair question. Sit down, I don't understand the rest of your

:04:27.:04:31.

question. Here is the story, guys. I am the least anti-Semitic person you

:04:32.:04:38.

have seen in your entire life. We lived in a divided nation and I am

:04:39.:04:44.

going to cry, I will do everything within my power to fix that. That I

:04:45.:04:50.

am going to try. I want to thank everybody very much, it is a great

:04:51.:04:51.

honour to be with you. Now one thing he did -

:04:52.:04:58.

a little strange in itself - was hark back to his election

:04:59.:05:01.

victory, incorrectly saying his electoral college win had

:05:02.:05:03.

been bigger than his four People came out and voted

:05:04.:05:06.

like they've never seen before. I guess it was the biggest electoral

:05:07.:05:12.

college win since Ronald Reagan. And this was how he responded

:05:13.:05:23.

when challenged. President Obama 322,

:05:24.:05:26.

George HW Bush 426, I was given that

:05:27.:05:32.

information, I don't know. I guess my question is,

:05:33.:05:40.

why should Americans trust you when you accuse the information

:05:41.:05:48.

they receive of being fake, when you're providing

:05:49.:05:50.

information that's... I don't know, I was

:05:51.:05:52.

given that information. Actually, I've seen that

:05:53.:05:53.

information around. It was strangely ill-disciplined,

:05:54.:06:00.

with numerous exchanges of insults with journalists,

:06:01.:06:02.

and the characteristic Icy -- I see the word tone, the

:06:03.:06:22.

tone, I'm not a bad person, the tone is such hatred. Joining me is a

:06:23.:06:29.

correspondent with CNN, a news organisation that has been the

:06:30.:06:33.

target of some of Donald Trump pleb criticism. Brian, thank you for

:06:34.:06:39.

joining us. What do you think Donald Trump is trying to achieve with

:06:40.:06:48.

these attacks on CNN and the press? He is playing his heads, going back

:06:49.:06:54.

to his greatest heads. This is something he did a lot during the

:06:55.:06:57.

primary campaign. It worked quite well for him. He would be jousting

:06:58.:07:00.

with journalists, sometimes bullying them in ways we saw again today. We

:07:01.:07:05.

are going to see him on Saturday trying another one of his greatest

:07:06.:07:08.

hits, a campaign style rally, going to Florida with thousands of people

:07:09.:07:12.

around him. He said today the crowd would be massive. He seems to

:07:13.:07:16.

already expect a big audience. He's going back to what worked for him

:07:17.:07:20.

when he was campaigning, not necessarily changing to a governing

:07:21.:07:25.

style. His attempt today was to distract and deflect. He was trying

:07:26.:07:28.

to say, the story is about how bad you are in the media, it is about

:07:29.:07:33.

the people leaking, illegally undermining me. I don't think that

:07:34.:07:38.

worked. There were a number of journalists asking very important

:07:39.:07:41.

questions about Russia and other subjects. There was a lot of news,

:07:42.:07:46.

as you are showing, and some commentators in the US are calling

:07:47.:07:52.

him unhinged. Fox's Shep Smith said it was crazy, CNN saying it was

:07:53.:08:00.

unhinged. You are not feeling intimidated? Is there anything he

:08:01.:08:09.

could do to CNN to shut you up or tame what he perceives as the unfair

:08:10.:08:13.

press he gets? That is an important question. The relationship between

:08:14.:08:16.

the press corps and the President is governed by norms, not laws.

:08:17.:08:21.

Journalists are reporting from the West Wing, standing on his lawn,

:08:22.:08:26.

doing live shots. Not because they are acquired legally, but because

:08:27.:08:29.

the President allows it. It has been custom for decades. Right now, there

:08:30.:08:34.

is no indication those norms and customs are changing. The President

:08:35.:08:39.

did call CNN and other outlets today. He seemed to enjoy the verbal

:08:40.:08:44.

combat. Maybe we will see him do press conferences more often. There

:08:45.:08:48.

are concerns about chilling effects from the daily drumbeat, calling the

:08:49.:08:52.

news media fake, the CNN, the New York Times, he continues, on a daily

:08:53.:08:57.

basis, to try to destabilise and delegitimise the American media. A

:08:58.:09:02.

lot of viewers, even some that voted for Trump, that is troubling.

:09:03.:09:08.

Answering questions, mostly words, not actions. I see journalists

:09:09.:09:12.

clearly, standing up straight, covering the biggest story in the

:09:13.:09:16.

world and not being intimidated. How many people out there, in the

:09:17.:09:20.

public, believe him when he says you and the New York Times are fake

:09:21.:09:24.

news? That a very interesting question also. If you look at the

:09:25.:09:29.

polls, we know the trust in media is low. But trust in Trump is also low.

:09:30.:09:38.

The ratings and traffic to news websites, including the BBC and CNN,

:09:39.:09:43.

it is sky-high. The public is very interested in knowing the truth

:09:44.:09:47.

about what Trump was doing, by accessing fact checks for what he is

:09:48.:09:50.

saying. There are issues with trust. I would go back to the President's

:09:51.:09:55.

own polls. He tried to cite an outlier poll that is favourable, one

:09:56.:10:01.

that leans Republican. Most of them, Gallup, from other organisations,

:10:02.:10:06.

they show the President with a 40% approval rating, very much under

:10:07.:10:09.

water in a very difficult situation. He has his base with him, there is

:10:10.:10:12.

no doubt about that. But he's not gaining support from the majority of

:10:13.:10:16.

the American people. When you hear him lashing out at the media, what

:10:17.:10:21.

he is really lashing out about is his unpopularity. You will know, as

:10:22.:10:25.

we know here, the news flow is very fast at the moment and very intense.

:10:26.:10:32.

I just wonder how far he can keep this up and how far you guys can

:10:33.:10:35.

keep this up over the next four years. It's a good thing 24 hour

:10:36.:10:43.

news was invented 35 years ago, between television, radio and the

:10:44.:10:46.

web, we are seeing constant coverage of the President. I see a very big

:10:47.:10:51.

appetite on the part of the public for this coverage, including full

:10:52.:10:54.

very tough coverage that hold him accountable. That is why today was

:10:55.:10:57.

important, he was answering questions from the BBC, ABC, CNN.

:10:58.:11:03.

Big news outlets that had not received questions in recent weeks.

:11:04.:11:07.

That was crucial, we should give the President's credit for doing that,

:11:08.:11:10.

even though it is a basic part of the job. When he is going to Florida

:11:11.:11:14.

again, holding that rally, I am sure there will be a lot of news there as

:11:15.:11:17.

well. He has been taking weekends off, going golfing. They have given

:11:18.:11:23.

journalists a brief break from the news.

:11:24.:11:24.

We're joined by Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to President Trump.

:11:25.:11:31.

Very good evening. Do you think his press conference was a bit unhinged?

:11:32.:11:39.

I think it is pathetic that the BBC would use words of that nature and

:11:40.:11:45.

also the objective weird. It is only weird to journalists like yourself

:11:46.:11:50.

who are biased. Brian is your authority? This is a man who was

:11:51.:11:57.

called ridiculous for his obsession for attacking President Trump by his

:11:58.:12:03.

CNN colleague. I would ask you to Google his name, fake news Delta

:12:04.:12:12.

Airlines. It was a fabulous press conference. Can I just ask a couple

:12:13.:12:15.

of factual questions? For his initial words, which went on for

:12:16.:12:21.

quite a few minutes, had he made notes on that and prepared that, or

:12:22.:12:28.

did he just go in and busk it? He is fabulous on his feet, he doesn't

:12:29.:12:32.

need to. This is the man who, in any one day, would go to nine different

:12:33.:12:36.

sites, sometimes in four different states. He doesn't need an autocue.

:12:37.:12:42.

He revels in this. What we saw today was the old Donald Trump from the

:12:43.:12:49.

campaign trail. It was fabulous. Did he game some questions with his

:12:50.:12:52.

team, did he think, what questions are we going to get, what is the

:12:53.:12:56.

answer? Or he just said, I'm going to go out there, confront these guys

:12:57.:13:00.

and give them hell? The President doesn't need to. He has a whole

:13:01.:13:05.

press team. We have amazing people that write talking points. I had

:13:06.:13:11.

talking points for this interview, don't need to use them but the team

:13:12.:13:15.

writes them. He made this claim, completely false claim, about his

:13:16.:13:18.

electoral college win being the biggest since Ronald Reagan. It

:13:19.:13:23.

turned out Clinton, George Bush and Barack Obama had bigger wins. I'm

:13:24.:13:29.

interested in how some mistake like that creeps in. This is a man that

:13:30.:13:32.

looks carefully at these things. What was going on? I think you're

:13:33.:13:40.

getting a little bit obsessed, yourself. If you listen to the tape

:13:41.:13:45.

you just played, he said I guess I have the largest. It wasn't an

:13:46.:13:48.

unequivocal statement of fact. The bottom line is that he trounced

:13:49.:13:53.

Hillary Clinton. It was organisations like CNN, the New York

:13:54.:13:58.

Times and even the BBC said Clinton is a shoo-in. The Huffington Post

:13:59.:14:02.

said she had a 92% chance of winning. That is fake news and the

:14:03.:14:07.

BBC should not be a hostage to it. What is really striking is, and it

:14:08.:14:10.

was striking in the press conference as well, there is a sort of tendency

:14:11.:14:15.

to leap back to the election campaign, to bang on about Hillary

:14:16.:14:18.

Clinton and her weaknesses, the way that you have just gone on about the

:14:19.:14:23.

way pundits got the election wrong. Does Mr Trump, does President Trump

:14:24.:14:28.

realise that he won the election, he got fewer votes, he won the

:14:29.:14:32.

election, he is the President now, for goodness sake. He doesn't have

:14:33.:14:35.

to keep banging on about Hillary Clinton. He's the President. It

:14:36.:14:40.

looks almost narcissistic, almost a bit childish to be talking the way

:14:41.:14:44.

that he does in campaign mode, when he is the leader of the free world.

:14:45.:14:49.

Only to journalist who don't like him and have an agenda. Is he

:14:50.:14:55.

looking back? My gosh I have been in this position for less than a month,

:14:56.:15:01.

we have done more work in one month than the prior administration did in

:15:02.:15:05.

six. The number of things we have achieved, whether with the coal

:15:06.:15:09.

miners, pushing back on the anti-coal mining policies of

:15:10.:15:12.

administration and the immigration reform and the modernisation of

:15:13.:15:17.

infrastructure planning. It is incredible the amount of work we

:15:18.:15:20.

have done and to say that we are basking in a former glory, please be

:15:21.:15:28.

a bit more factual or you will be accused of fake news. So you agree

:15:29.:15:32.

with President Trump that his White House is a fine-tuned machine and

:15:33.:15:39.

operating well? I have never worked at this rarified strategic level

:15:40.:15:44.

before, I'm a political appointment. It is incredible I come into work

:15:45.:15:50.

every morning at 7 o'clock, open the newspapers and when I read a story

:15:51.:15:55.

that bares no resemblance to the issue I was involved in, I was in

:15:56.:15:59.

the room the day before when it was being settled, eight out of nine

:16:00.:16:06.

times it is fabricated. I'm sad to say that you and your colleagues

:16:07.:16:10.

have fallen into this trap of fake news. It is not fake news, we are

:16:11.:16:14.

trying to understand what is going on, we are not making factual claims

:16:15.:16:18.

a lot of time, we are asking questions that you don't like. No

:16:19.:16:25.

not at all, ask away. Well why did Donald Trump say he knew nothing

:16:26.:16:31.

about Michael Flynn having spoken to the Russian about sanctions and then

:16:32.:16:35.

on Monday we learn that President Trump had known about it for a

:16:36.:16:39.

couple of, more than a couple of weeks? You're obsessing on issues

:16:40.:16:47.

that are not point. I'm asking a perfectly simple question, I have

:16:48.:16:51.

asked it once, why did he say I know nothing about that and then on

:16:52.:16:55.

Monday we hear he had known about it it for two weeks. Why did he say

:16:56.:17:01.

that. It is a fine-tuned machine you said. I said the White House is

:17:02.:17:06.

working as a fine tuned machine. Your question was about the

:17:07.:17:09.

representation of it being a maelstrom in the White House and I

:17:10.:17:14.

answered it factually based on my experience. There isn't any disorder

:17:15.:17:19.

or chaos. Some people in the media would like there to be. But there

:17:20.:17:24.

isn't, I'm in the building. What the president knew when, please ask him

:17:25.:17:27.

when you have an opportunity. I sure you have a BBC correspondent, I

:17:28.:17:31.

wasn't in that meeting with general Flynn. Let me ask you about foreign

:17:32.:17:39.

policy, this is a fine-tuned machine, the president said

:17:40.:17:42.

yesterday he was opened minded on solutions to the issue of Israel and

:17:43.:17:48.

Palestine. Today your ambassador at the UN clarified to colleagues and

:17:49.:17:52.

others there that the two state policy remained the US objective,

:17:53.:17:58.

why is there this constant confusion between the president speaks,

:17:59.:18:00.

someone has to go around with a bucket and a shovel picking up the

:18:01.:18:05.

pieces to clarify to the allies what is going on? Your representation is

:18:06.:18:16.

just wishful thinking. If you zint didn't have an agenda-driven

:18:17.:18:20.

question list, well, read the transcript of what the president

:18:21.:18:23.

said after the meeting with the Prime Minister. It was unequivocal.

:18:24.:18:28.

We remain committed to our ally Israel and any solution will have to

:18:29.:18:32.

be a solution that both sides come to. We are not going to intervene.

:18:33.:18:39.

You need to stick to the facts. The fact is other people, not just me,

:18:40.:18:45.

other people, were confused and reported, not because they have an

:18:46.:18:48.

agenda, that there was a change in US policy. Nicky Hailey felt it

:18:49.:18:55.

necessary to clarify. Why are these kind of mistakes being made. Before

:18:56.:19:04.

you answer that, another one today, Rex Tillerson was in a meeting with

:19:05.:19:09.

the French and they said they thought your policy was to tear up

:19:10.:19:15.

the Tehran deal. Rex Tillerson said I didn't say that. It gives a

:19:16.:19:19.

picture of shambles in which people are having to correct or

:19:20.:19:24.

mis-statements or things that have been misunderstood. Is it everybody

:19:25.:19:32.

else's fault and not your own No there is an agenda driven

:19:33.:19:43.

distortion. The media accused us of being anti-Semitic and white sue

:19:44.:19:50.

preppist and we have an orthodox Jew key to the decision making process

:19:51.:19:55.

and you talk about anti-Semitism. We are not going to stand for it. Where

:19:56.:20:04.

does the BBC or the New York times said it is an anti-Semitic regime.

:20:05.:20:15.

Look at the... That is quite different to say. Tlanchts. That was

:20:16.:20:23.

the response, that we didn't use the world Jewish holocaust. It is

:20:24.:20:32.

absurd. When I... When the president says he hates the press... It is

:20:33.:20:37.

true. I never said anything on those terms, I don't want to get drawn

:20:38.:20:43.

into a Tex eventual argument. Gods forbid you would agree. When he says

:20:44.:20:46.

the press is out of control and you stand there and for most of your

:20:47.:20:50.

answers just say we have an agenda and we are fake news. Prove it.

:20:51.:20:57.

You're using Brian setter. Is it the case you plan no action against the

:20:58.:21:02.

press, the press will carry on and do its job and be allowed to do its

:21:03.:21:07.

job, are there measures your intending to take. This is fake

:21:08.:21:15.

news. You have committed fake news. You're implying that there is some

:21:16.:21:21.

dread intent. It is absurd. What are you positing? I'm asking if the

:21:22.:21:25.

president has actions in mind, he said it is out of control, we need

:21:26.:21:29.

to talk about this and he hinted that he he wasn't going to put up.

:21:30.:21:37.

That might mean I will communicate with everybody by Twitter or I will

:21:38.:21:42.

think of things. Is it the latter or the former. I means we are going to

:21:43.:21:47.

continue to do what we did so very successfully and the thing that put

:21:48.:21:57.

the former real estate billionaire into and to break your monopoly and

:21:58.:22:03.

the mainstream media does not monopolise news and we will go

:22:04.:22:08.

straight to the audience. We are not going to put up with distortion and

:22:09.:22:15.

people who believe they have a monopoly on the truth because they

:22:16.:22:24.

have 60 years of a letterhead. We will communicate with our audience.

:22:25.:22:27.

Thank you for talking to you. We don't like be so much the centre of

:22:28.:22:30.

attention. Thank very much indeed. A week and a half to the Oscars

:22:31.:22:34.

and the film that everyone has But let me tell about

:22:35.:22:38.

a better one than that - not that I've seen La La Land

:22:39.:22:42.

to make a comparison. It has eight nominations,

:22:43.:22:45.

including best film, and it In a way it is Boyz in the Hood

:22:46.:22:48.

meets Brokeback Mountain, but that doesn't begin

:22:49.:22:53.

to do it justice. It's a three-act film set mainly

:22:54.:22:55.

in a black neighbourhood of Miami, chronicling the life of Chiron,

:22:56.:22:58.

from being a gentle child bullied at school to a young adult coming

:22:59.:23:01.

to terms with his sexuality. It mixes macho brutality,

:23:02.:23:04.

with genuine tenderness. The film's directed by Barry Jenkins

:23:05.:23:08.

and is based on a story by Tarrell Alvin McCraney called

:23:09.:23:11.

'In Moonlight Black Boys Look Blue'. They are both up for an Oscar

:23:12.:23:16.

for Adapted Screenplay. And Tarrell, of course,

:23:17.:23:20.

is to a large extent that gentle child we meet

:23:21.:23:22.

in the film. It was based on a lot

:23:23.:23:24.

of memories, particularly memories of myself and my mother

:23:25.:23:41.

and my childhood growing There is a lot of me in it,

:23:42.:23:44.

but I think there is also a lot of When you come to a piece

:23:45.:23:51.

about self-discovery, it's very difficult

:23:52.:23:54.

to leave yourself out. So one of the things Barry was very

:23:55.:23:57.

generous in and very brave in is putting himself

:23:58.:24:00.

in the film as well. One of the most striking

:24:01.:24:05.

things about the film is the very tender depiction

:24:06.:24:07.

of the mentor to the young young Well, one of the things

:24:08.:24:10.

I like to say he was nurturing and mentoring and he was

:24:11.:24:17.

a drug dealer, instead of "but", because but tends to dismiss

:24:18.:24:21.

one part or the other. One of the things I didn't

:24:22.:24:25.

want to do was portray him as one of the others,

:24:26.:24:27.

that he was both to me. I think we should

:24:28.:24:32.

think of all people as And if we want those people

:24:33.:24:39.

to do more good than bad, then we have to think of them

:24:40.:24:50.

as human beings, right? My mother's boyfriend,

:24:51.:24:54.

a man named Blue, was a drug dealer, who was very kind to me

:24:55.:24:57.

- taught me how to swim, taught me how to ride a bike,

:24:58.:25:01.

who taught me how to make And you don't think of a drug dealer

:25:02.:25:03.

being able to do that for a The film of course is,

:25:04.:25:08.

a lot of it, is dealing And it is very striking,

:25:09.:25:12.

and it is not just in your film, there are other accounts of young

:25:13.:25:19.

gay children in underprivileged communities where there

:25:20.:25:22.

is a particularly strong kind of Well, think about the way

:25:23.:25:24.

in which the system is And so you say access

:25:25.:25:33.

to privilege is based on That's the ideal we

:25:34.:25:37.

share with everybody. Think about the way in which we look

:25:38.:25:42.

at women in our society. What is the worst

:25:43.:25:45.

thing I can call you? So that trickles down into all

:25:46.:25:47.

communities and we think how do we maintain access, how do we get

:25:48.:25:53.

more privilege, well, the more masculine I am, I mean

:25:54.:25:57.

I have the means or the money to get

:25:58.:25:59.

to the privilege of life, but if I'm more

:26:00.:26:03.

masculine, then I'm closer to the power/access in the way

:26:04.:26:05.

the society works. So one of the problems is we sort

:26:06.:26:08.

of keep harping on this idea of masculinity or hyper-masculinity,

:26:09.:26:12.

or more importantly toxic masculinity, because there

:26:13.:26:15.

is nothing more wrong with wanting to play sports

:26:16.:26:20.

or being rough and tumble, but then we honour that

:26:21.:26:23.

above wanting to be caressed or nurtured or gentle,

:26:24.:26:26.

then we start creating these So you can have a drug dealer

:26:27.:26:29.

who drives around in a very macho car, who is also nurturing and also

:26:30.:26:38.

gentle and also teaches a person So the film didn't, the film wasn't

:26:39.:26:41.

created to tackle these ideas... It tackles them, because

:26:42.:26:47.

they are part of life. At some point you have got

:26:48.:26:51.

to decide for yourself Can't let nobody make

:26:52.:27:06.

that decision for you. Every interview at

:27:07.:27:14.

the moment comes back to Trump, is there some

:27:15.:27:16.

link between that theme that you have explored

:27:17.:27:19.

in the film and the election

:27:20.:27:21.

of Donald Trump? Is it that a lot of other low status

:27:22.:27:23.

people, and you know people who felt basically this man is speaking for

:27:24.:27:30.

us and he has a kind of masculinity I'm just wondering if there is some

:27:31.:27:33.

link there between the... The world in which we live

:27:34.:27:41.

in in terms of misogyny and the oppression of women and the

:27:42.:27:45.

oppression of feminism, the idea, the xenophobic ideas have been

:27:46.:27:51.

there for a long time. If anything, this film should

:27:52.:27:54.

show you that if this stuff was happening to me in my

:27:55.:28:04.

childhood and I am 36 now, will be 37 this year, that means 20 years

:28:05.:28:08.

ago we were still wrestling with these same ideas -

:28:09.:28:11.

that that poverty that existed We talk about films being

:28:12.:28:13.

a way to escape, to go to another person's

:28:14.:28:19.

life or experience. And this film allowed

:28:20.:28:21.

me to do something So we see Trevante Rhodes

:28:22.:28:25.

as Chiron all grown up and you know he puts on this kind

:28:26.:28:46.

of masculine facade in order to survive in that world and then

:28:47.:28:50.

we look in his eyes and we see in that man's eyes that he,

:28:51.:28:54.

no matter what he does, is always

:28:55.:28:56.

going to be right there, that vulnerable person

:28:57.:28:58.

that So no matter how many accolades

:28:59.:28:59.

that I get, no matter how far I travel from Liberty City,

:29:00.:29:02.

or if I'm in Stratford-upon-Avon, or in London, or Canada,

:29:03.:29:05.

no matter where I sort of put myself on a platform or

:29:06.:29:08.

other people do the same, it doesn't, none of that vulnerability

:29:09.:29:11.

has left me. Within me and within

:29:12.:29:15.

the performance of masculinity or femininity that I have

:29:16.:29:18.

and education I might have, You're up for an Oscar,

:29:19.:29:21.

I mean the film is up for You have a joint screenplay

:29:22.:29:28.

one with Barry Jenkins. Are you going to be that vulnerable,

:29:29.:29:37.

scared child if you win the Oscar? Absolutely, absolutely

:29:38.:29:41.

and I think that's the thing that is incredible -

:29:42.:29:43.

I think you're watching two young men from a very difficult part of

:29:44.:29:46.

world, who are still carrying that world with them and particularly

:29:47.:29:49.

inside of them go to a place that we never thought

:29:50.:29:52.

we would get to. We've seen the Donald Trump

:29:53.:29:54.

communication style this evening. There is something rather intriguing

:29:55.:30:07.

about how quiet she is. She is the opposite of Donald Trump,

:30:08.:30:12.

and some of her predecessors, who feel the head of government job

:30:13.:30:15.

is one that requires you to keep yabbering

:30:16.:30:18.

on about anything and everything - from policy and politics,

:30:19.:30:20.

to sport and soap opera. It's not post-truth for Theresa May,

:30:21.:30:25.

it's post-nothing - stay quiet. We'll reflect on the merits of that

:30:26.:30:30.

approach, but first here's Chris Cook on the contrast

:30:31.:30:33.

with the practices of yore. Since July, and the change

:30:34.:30:39.

of Prime Minister, the Government This week, though, as one Times

:30:40.:30:41.

reporter put it, they went dark. With Parliament in recess,

:30:42.:30:48.

the Government went quiet. It really is quite unusual

:30:49.:30:53.

for a whole government to be And a lot of it is down

:30:54.:30:56.

to Theresa May's own personal She doesn't regard it as her job

:30:57.:31:03.

to give people like me things Now, when I put it in those

:31:04.:31:10.

terms, perhaps you have But here's the big question,

:31:11.:31:14.

as a political strategy, does it Here is the rationale for feeding

:31:15.:31:18.

the beast, from a past master. If a story comes out

:31:19.:31:27.

that says something, and you don't have the capacity

:31:28.:31:33.

to get on top and say, hang on, the facts are X and Y,

:31:34.:31:38.

as you have probably discovered, You know, these stories don't take

:31:39.:31:42.

a life of their own and then start running away into the far distance,

:31:43.:31:49.

and then the public thinks, my goodness, what are they doing

:31:50.:31:56.

that for, when you're not doing The current Prime Minister clearly

:31:57.:31:59.

doesn't feel any great pressure with her current poll lead

:32:00.:32:03.

to engage very much. She went on the Copeland by-election

:32:04.:32:05.

trail yesterday in Cumbria, where she spent under three minutes

:32:06.:32:07.

taking two questions We'll let you get back, thank you

:32:08.:32:09.

very much. It's a fair bet, then,

:32:10.:32:21.

that the current PM won't emulate Ted Heath, shown here showing

:32:22.:32:24.

off his talent as a sailor And here, showing

:32:25.:32:27.

off his musicianship. Showing hinterland would

:32:28.:32:32.

mean having cameras in, The May approach, though,

:32:33.:32:34.

can save you from trivia. Tony Blair, shown here

:32:35.:32:40.

in opposition, later opined on the jailing of Deirdre Rachid,

:32:41.:32:43.

a character from Coronation Street. Even David Cameron's tweeting

:32:44.:32:49.

about British sporting success Maybe this will work,

:32:50.:32:51.

a low profile may preserve the sheen that attaches

:32:52.:32:58.

to new prime ministers. But more pressure from other

:32:59.:33:01.

parties, or events, Right now, the polls

:33:02.:33:03.

suggest her low-profile We're joined by the broadcaster

:33:04.:33:07.

and columnist Steve Richards, by Ayesha Hazarika who was a special

:33:08.:33:18.

advisor to both Ed Miliband and Harriet Harman and by

:33:19.:33:21.

Matt Chorley from the Times. He was the Times journalists that

:33:22.:33:31.

used the phrase going dark. Is it a pain that you go and don't get

:33:32.:33:42.

stories from her? It was recess, journalists were left to their own

:33:43.:33:49.

devices. It does seem to be working. Every time a journalist says give us

:33:50.:33:53.

a story, otherwise it is going to be bad for you, this lack of media

:33:54.:33:58.

coverage, they say, do you want to look at our latest poll ratings?

:33:59.:34:02.

They think it is working for now. How different is it your days? Very

:34:03.:34:06.

different. It's interesting seeing Tony Blair popping up. I think New

:34:07.:34:12.

Labour, in the to 97, when we first got into power, we set the rule book

:34:13.:34:18.

in terms of professionalised media publications. We set up a grid and

:34:19.:34:24.

everybody was obsessed. What is this grid? It is the seven days mapped

:34:25.:34:28.

out and you have to have events in it. We would have grid meetings, a

:34:29.:34:33.

grid manager. A lot of job creation is generated by the grid. To quote

:34:34.:34:40.

Tony Blair, I think there is a third way in all of this. You don't want

:34:41.:34:47.

to become so obsessed with the grid wagging the tail. You need some

:34:48.:34:55.

thinking time to populate it. Matt, is there no grid? There is, the

:34:56.:34:59.

rulers don't put anything on it! That is the difference. -- the rule

:35:00.:35:07.

is. You speak to govern and advisers, they say we would love to

:35:08.:35:13.

do stuff, we are trying to get stuff on the grid. So Number 10 is saying

:35:14.:35:19.

not to? They say why rock the boat? The risk, putting a minister on TV,

:35:20.:35:23.

is that they say something that generates news. Or just to say

:35:24.:35:28.

something! Steve, you have been around a while and written about

:35:29.:35:31.

Prime Minister is, is it the right thing to do?

:35:32.:35:36.

Depends partly on context and partly the personality of the individual.

:35:37.:35:42.

With new Labour, they suffered such a terrible press in the 80s, the

:35:43.:35:48.

early 1990s, certainly the New Labour generation were totally

:35:49.:35:52.

obsessed, partly justifiably, partly to the point where it becomes

:35:53.:35:56.

stifling. What are we going to say about Coronation Street? They were

:35:57.:36:00.

in a complete... I was once having a cup of tea with Tony Blair, early in

:36:01.:36:06.

his first term, 40 points ahead in the polls, William Hague already

:36:07.:36:10.

doomed as Leader of the Opposition. Someone rushed in from the press

:36:11.:36:14.

team saying William Hague is going to say something about hybridisation

:36:15.:36:18.

of rural post offices. What are we going to do? What is the message?

:36:19.:36:22.

Anyone would think they were about to collapse as a government. That

:36:23.:36:27.

becomes stifling. Here approach is interesting. She is much more shy

:36:28.:36:31.

than Tony Blair and David Cameron. It is quite interesting, in such a

:36:32.:36:36.

public position. Her media performances, I think they are

:36:37.:36:39.

authentically awkward because she is shy. She doesn't enjoy them. Cameron

:36:40.:36:44.

and Tony Blair, on the whole, enjoy them. It is partly her own

:36:45.:36:49.

reticence. She can get away with this with opinion poll leads and an

:36:50.:36:53.

opposition in disarray. But there will be times when it becomes an

:36:54.:36:57.

issue for her. No doubt. The problem is the vacuum. You've got to write

:36:58.:37:02.

something. There is an e-mail you send out every morning, you have to

:37:03.:37:06.

feel that with something. If she is not giving you something, you can be

:37:07.:37:10.

mischievous? We have seen business rate rises, they have been planned

:37:11.:37:14.

for some time. This week, it is on the front pages again. Tomorrow as

:37:15.:37:19.

well, a big rise is coming, it's affecting pubs that people love,

:37:20.:37:24.

hospitals that people love. That feels like, this week, because it

:37:25.:37:27.

has been recess, the government hasn't been doing anything, business

:37:28.:37:32.

rates has taken on a life of its own and it will probably mean that the

:37:33.:37:34.

Chancellor will have to do something about it. It had a prominence

:37:35.:37:38.

because there has not been anything else? At the moment, because the

:37:39.:37:46.

opposition is so weak, also because there is the destruction of Brexit

:37:47.:37:49.

and also when Trump wakes up in the morning and hits the tweet deck, the

:37:50.:37:58.

danger for the Government and the press operation, I think they can be

:37:59.:38:00.

quite complacent about it now, but they shouldn't forget that there is

:38:01.:38:07.

lots of domestic crises bubbling up. The NHS, business rates, cuts in

:38:08.:38:10.

school budgets. There are things that the public are getting

:38:11.:38:16.

exercised about. Just having a press strategy that stonewalled everything

:38:17.:38:18.

is not going to be sustainable for a long time. In a way, at this point,

:38:19.:38:25.

it is quite sensible. One Brexit, people were saying, what is her

:38:26.:38:30.

plan? The Economist at the front page of there being no plan. She did

:38:31.:38:35.

a speech. I disagreed with some of the content, but it was almost a

:38:36.:38:39.

work of art that they had worked and sweated over for a long period, but

:38:40.:38:43.

quite an effective way of doing things. Wait and then deliver. You

:38:44.:38:47.

can't do it when you are in control of party and government as she is at

:38:48.:38:51.

the moment, it becomes harder when you lose control, which will happen

:38:52.:38:54.

to her at some point. I have just been doing some talks for the BBC

:38:55.:39:00.

about six prime ministers, what I have learned us I ad-libbed my way

:39:01.:39:03.

through these talks is that the ones that lasted longest work, one way or

:39:04.:39:08.

another, teachers. They regarded part of their role as to constantly

:39:09.:39:14.

mimic it. Thatcher was an instinctive teacher, always

:39:15.:39:16.

communicating simple messages as a matter of human course, almost. Tony

:39:17.:39:21.

Blair to this as well. Maybe the story of 2016-17 is that

:39:22.:39:34.

the New Labour spin model was completely bust come on two sides of

:39:35.:39:39.

the Atlantic you have two contrasting new models. Trump has

:39:40.:39:43.

broken all of the rules of the old spin model, and Theresa May is

:39:44.:39:46.

breaking them. If you sat back and asked yourself, which of the new

:39:47.:39:50.

models do you prefer, which would you say? I think you are right.

:39:51.:39:56.

Journalists like to be given stories. Some politicians like to be

:39:57.:40:00.

in newspapers. The danger is that we think a of stories in newspapers

:40:01.:40:03.

about politicians is what the public want. Actually, I the reaction to

:40:04.:40:09.

the spin culture, which people got more and more fed up with, is they

:40:10.:40:13.

quite like not seeing the Prime Minister on the TV every night,

:40:14.:40:20.

saying what they think about every passing thing going. You slip into a

:40:21.:40:25.

danger, as a politician, if you think success is measured by how

:40:26.:40:28.

many splashes you get, having worked for lots of politicians, the biggest

:40:29.:40:34.

thing is sometimes, why am I not in the newspapers? You need the

:40:35.:40:40.

balance, a good example was the Brexit speech that she did, doing

:40:41.:40:44.

less, but doing it better. So, having the time to properly think

:40:45.:40:47.

through your message, your policy, your strategy and communications,

:40:48.:40:53.

that should be the icing on the cake. When everything is driven,

:40:54.:40:56.

when the grid gets out of control and you are just trying to keep up

:40:57.:41:01.

with the grid, that is very scary. Imagine Trump's spin doctor tonight,

:41:02.:41:08.

if the focus was on message discipline! I think they have moved

:41:09.:41:13.

on from that one. That is all we have time for. Kirsty will be back

:41:14.:41:15.

here tomorrow. Have a good night. Hello. A cold night in Scotland on

:41:16.:41:31.

the way. There will be a touch of Frost and fog patches around, those

:41:32.:41:33.

in southern Scotland slow to clear tomorrow morning. A bit of patchy

:41:34.:41:38.

rain from the Midlands, North West England and western Scotland to

:41:39.:41:41.

begin with. A lot of that fading into the afternoon as the bulk of

:41:42.:41:45.

the UK turns dry. Thickening cloud again in Northern Ireland. Still a

:41:46.:41:49.

bit of light rain for parts of western Scotland. The best of the

:41:50.:41:52.

sunshine, throughout much of Scotland, will be down the eastern

:41:53.:41:59.

side. Grey over north-west Scotland, Misty and matey. Richard

:42:00.:42:03.

Brighton-Knight towards East Anglia. It looks rather

:42:04.:42:05.