14/03/2017 Newsnight

Lights down for the big fight, round two.

The issue is the end of the United Kingdom.

First, who decides on a second Scottish referendum,

And then the substantive argument, should Scotland leave one

We'll look at the link between Scottish independence and Brexit.

Will Theresa May be tempted to water down the latter

Will Theresa May be tempted to water down the latter to avoid the former?

Also tonight, the Netherlands prepares to vote tomorrow.

We ask the Prime Minister will he be another domino in the fall of

Not if I can help it. I am fighting to win. I have called this the

quarter-finals. The half-finals will be the French elections and the

finals will be the German elections. .

And speaking of Europe, why has the Dutch boss

of the Royal Opera House relocated Wagner to a London gentleman's club?

Hello, we knew our nation was at a crossroads -

but now it looks more like spaghetti junction.

The issues of Brexit, Scotland and the union

The re-shaping of the UK could be as dramatic as anything we've

And at the helm of the UK and Scotland as this plays out,

two women; each seeing this as the moment for history to be

made, each diametrically opposed to each other and neither facing

strong opposition from other parties.

Today, Nicola Sturgeon said the timing of a second Scottish

referendum should be decided by Scotland - Made in

Well, it could be an interesting few years.

Before we hear about the dilemma for Theresa May in working out how

to respond to Nicola Sturgeon's request for a referendum,

let's look at the diary and see the key dates.

As far as Brexit is concerned - we trigger the process

We'll get initial reactions and then negotiation proper will probably

start after the French election in May.

The EU has said it wants a draft deal by September next year,

that can be signed off by everyone by March 2019 - that's the date

that Britain would leave the EU, deal or no deal.

So how does a Scottish referendum fit around that?

Well, Nicola Sturgeon says the second referendum should be

after any deal is known, but before we actually leave.

Then even if Scotland is dragged out of the EU,

it can already be preparing to get back in.

Theresa May wants Brexit out of the way first.

Before that would be the "worst possible timing" she says.

After that, it gets tangled up in the UK

General Election - May 2020.

And after that, it gets tangled up with the next Scottish

Well, Theresa May does not want a second Scottish

referendum; the SNP did have it in their manifesto.

And most ferociously we have to expect, over the timing of one.

But there is another dimension - Theresa May could use

Scotland as a reason to soften her demands for Brexit.

Make the demands more Scotland friendly.

That would upset her Brexiteer colleagues, but if she doesn't,

Nick Watt has been looking at calculations that might be

One United Kingdom. Two leaders and a third referendum? Just when you

thought it was safe to venture outside, another vote emerges over

the horizon. If we have learned one lesson over

the last three years, it is that referendums are dangerous for the

losers and the winners. So both Nicola Sturgeon and Theresa May face

a perilous path as Indr Ref 2 Hoves into view. Theresa May looks as if

she's going to have a hard Brexit, which is going to be very, very bad

for the United Kingdom and that is playing into the hands, as - has

played into the hands of Nicola Sturgeon, because it gives her this

extra reason, strengthens her argument for coming out of the

United Kingdom because Scotland voted to stay and Nicola Sturgeon is

also taking a risk with the referendum, I don't think there is

any guarantee she's going to get it through and if she doesn't get it

through, then her career is finished and the SNP are in great

difficulties, so it's a very high risk strategy for both women.

Westminster still retains ultimate sovereignty over Scotland and yes,

there is a slimmed down Scotland office in Whitehall. This means that

Nicola Sturgeon has to ask to hold a legally binding referendum on

independence. Once that request has been tabled, after a vote in

Holyrood, Theresa May faces a headache. If the Prime Minister

rejects a referendum in the course of this UK parliament, she risks

inflaming Scottish nationalists. Just imagine, if Theresa May adopts

this line, just imagine the campaign that's going to take place to

illustrate they're breaking manifesto commitments and trying to

stop the First Minister fulfilling a manifesto commitment in defiance of

the view of the Scottish parliament. For goodness sake. I mean, that's

the sort of - Theresa May talks about a cliff-edge as far as Brexit

is concerned, that's the sort of abyss that David Cameron once looked

over. David Cameron granted that referendum to avoid a stand

Catalonian-style standoff. The man who was Scotland's Secretary at the

time of Indy Ref one says the nationalists would struggle to claim

they're on a par with the Catalans because they were granted a proper

vote. We did that, the Catalanian standoff was avoided. The problem

for the SNP was they didn't get the answer they wanted so it was perhaps

in their views not as decisive as they wanted it to be. I don't accept

this attitude on the part of political parties who say, we have

had a referendum, we don't agree with the result, we are going to ask

people to do it all over again because we hope there will be a

different result. I don't think that's fair and I don't think that's

particularly democratic. But one veteran of Labour's battles with the

SNP says Brexit is complicating Westminster's arguments against a

second referendum. Nicola Sturgeon is saying she wants Scotland to be

independent, able to make its own decisions, not to be part of the

United Kingdom, held in and controlled by the other countries in

the United Kingdom. Theresa May is wanting to take the United Kingdom

out of the European Union again to keep sovereignty and to a country

that's independent and not controlled by, or influenced by the

other countries in the European Union. So it's a very much the same

argument. Scotland's First Minister at the time of the referendum

rejects one of Number 10's central arguments against a second vote.

That both sides agreed to abide by the result. Nicola Sturgeon is a new

First Minister. With a fresh mandate from the Scottish people saying that

under the circumstances of Scotland being dragged out of Europe against

the will of the Scottish people, the Scottish parliament should hold a

referendum on independence, as clear as day.

To stave off a second referendum, Theresa May will embark on a tour of

all four corners of the UK to drum up support for her Brexit plan. No

doubt she will gloss over a similar save the union tour by John Major in

1997 as part of her unsuccessful campaign against the Scottish

parliament. History can move in circles.

So let's get a taste of views from Scotland.

Two and a half years ago, the country was electrified

by its referendum, but also fiercely divided.

The polls indicate that opinion is still divided,

Here are some views from Glasgow today.

There's so much stuff the SNP are not doing

on the groundwork that you say well, how can this be?

How can you ask us to vote Yes for independence when ultimately

you can't give us any kind of guarantees about the future?

I wasn't at all surprised that she made the announcement.

Although a bit earlier than I expected.

And, of course, she feels she's in the driving seat now

because she has the people on her side, but to be

honest the situation has changed since 2014.

So it may well be that a Yes vote would be on the cards for next year.

I think it's definitely too early to call another

referendum election in like 2018, 2019, there is so much uncertainty

I think we voted 55% for being in the UK, 45% against.

So for Miss Sturgeon asking for this, she's essentially wanting

to go against the majority of the Scottish population.

I think it's a good idea being independent but I think

the First Minister is just taking it too soon, I think she should wait

for the Brexit deal to be done, then she can take it from there.

The big difference between this independence referendum

in Scotland and the last one - of course - is that it will all take

And that's something that will cause a lot of head

scratching not just here - but in Brussels and the rest

Our Diplomatic Editor, Mark Urban, is here.

How have European leaders received this idea that this is complicating

a factor that Scotland might itself try and separate from the UK? I

think complicating factor is understating it. There is

consternation and concern, diplomats don't like negotiations to fragment,

to be getting wider when they should be getting narrower, the iruse

multiply. I will fragment this programme and mention Northern

Ireland which you haven't mentioned easterly, both Scotland and Northern

Ireland are possibly on the road to something here and there is concern.

Now people I have spoken to today emphasised that with the case of

Scotland it must be an enabling decision by Theresa May and the

British parliament that allows that to happen. They don't want a sort of

unilateral Scottish referendum. Here is a former Polish Foreign Minister.

We have here two competing principles, the right

to self-determination and the inviability of borders.

So I don't think anybody would object to a cessation

that is done according to the constitution

What would make people very nervous would be any unilateral

That point well made. The Spanish are always a big player in this

because of Catalan. Mentioned by Nick and you, 2014, they tried to go

for it, the constitutional court and the upper House in Spain wouldn't

let them. Of course it was a damp squib. Europe did not recognise the

results of the vote and did not give them what they wanted in that sense.

So that is a warning blow. Look, they've got those sort of issues in

mind, the Spanish, the Belgians and other countries. Some other

countries are more friendly to the idea of Scottish independence but in

the end they've also got to consider the question of if these major

questions about Scotland and Northern Ireland don't get resolved

until after the Brexit negotiations is completed, won't that make for a

simpler negotiation and won't it also make for a British Prime

Minister who is under more pressure from those factors to agree to

single market type terms? Mark, thank you very much.

I'm now joined by passionate unionist and Conservative

And Kirsty Blackman MP, who is on the SNP's

Evening to you. Let's just find out about this, do you agree it has to

be a Westminster sanctioned referendum and there is no go it

alone referendum? That's a process that we are doing, Nicola set out we

are putting forward the section 30 agreement and putting that to the UK

Government in an attempt to try to get agreement there. It would be an

illegitimate vote if it wasn't agreed to by Theresa May? It's not

something we are planning to do. Right. Who gets to decide the timing

of this? Who do you think gets to decide the timing of a second

Scottish referendum? I think your answer answered the question, it's

got to be a parliamentary vote in Westminster that gives authority and

legitimacy to that. The people who control the parliamentary timetable

is the Government. That's what governments do. So I think that the

Government will have an important say probably an overriding say in

deciding what time the referendum will take place. And should the

Government listen to the Scottish Government's advice on that or

should the British UK Government say, well, we don't like you having

a referendum, you can go it after 2021? I am not speaking for the

Prime Minister but from my point of view it seems odd that they should

have a vote before Brexit has been completed. Because I think as Mark

suggested, it completely complicates and confuses the issue. I would say

that they should think - Brexit be over and done be, and then clear the

table, and then we can have a referendum. That seems like a

reasonable way to proceed. Scotland did not support Brexit, we

overwhelmingly voted against. And the SNP were voted in with the

majority of the constituency vote. Our manifesto said we would hold a

referendum especially in these circumstances. The timing is a bit

more complicated. The British Government and you are part of the

UK and Europe population voted to be part of the UK, May say we do not

want this complicated. In terms of the timeline we have chosen the EU

timeline. Michel Barnier said they would spend 18 months negotiating

and six months ratifying. So the shape of Brexit will be known. We

will not know it is going to be ratified, Parliament could throw a

spanner in the works. It surely would be useful to know what the

final deal is. At that stage we will know the shape of the deal or it is

no deal. Those are the options at that stage. Those of the options

that Scotland will be faced with. It seems bizarre timing because in

September 2018 we will know the shape of the deal but it will not

have been ratified, that will take six months to ratify the deal and to

have a Scottish referendum in the middle of the process of ratifying

Brexit to me seems you are confusing the issue. That seems to be a

bizarre time frame for a referendum. September 2019, that is quite close

to the UK general election. There are a couple of issues, the main

thing is to get Brexit over and done with. We know Scotland voted against

but as a whole the UK voted for it. I think is reasonable to say let's

get Brexit over and done with before embarking on another campaign. Would

you accept a September 2019? We have put forward a compromise edition and

continue to do so and we have moved a mile from our original proposals

and the UK Government have not moved an inch. So the door is still open

for compromise. You mean compromise on Scottish access to the single

market? That is what we put forward. Let's talk about the negotiation for

Brexit because one theory would be that Theresa May could soften her

Brexit in order to perhaps make it more like -- more likely that

Scotland would stay in the UK. The problem is you completely forget the

fact there are 27 other countries we are negotiating with about Brexit.

We do not have a choice. They might want us to be in the single market.

We do not know what they were like, but the position will be. So to

frame the idea or notion that somehow the Prime Minister could say

I'm going to soft in this together another deal on the other side, I do

not think it is realistic. You're dealing with the EU, negotiating not

with just Nicola Sturgeon. If the British Government tried to get

something closer to single market access for the whole UK, not the

special Scotland arrangement you have come up with but something

closer, a softer Brexit, would that then stymie that? Theresa May in the

face of all evidence to the contrary is trying to proceed with this hard

Brexit. But would it make a difference if it was soft. She has

had loads of evidence suggesting hard Brexit is damaging. Tens of

thousands of jobs being lost in Scotland. And nothing so far has

made her soften stance and I do not imagine this would do so. It almost

sounded earlier as if you were saying that there was still time for

a deal. You said you'd been trying to get the deal and she has not

moved an inch. I'm interested in what that inch would have to be for

you to say the referendum would be put back in the box. We've spoken

about single market access for Scotland, but it would be beneficial

for the whole of the UK. And if the EU said you cannot have that, and

Donald Tusk at one point said it is hard Brexit or no Brexit, if the EU

did not allow single market access, with that then mean you would say we

will stick with Brexit. If Theresa May was to begin to prioritise the

needs of British citizens and the task of Scotland, that would be a

compromise position. How do you interpret what hearing? Well the

other problem is what the premises suggested we were doing, essentially

playing games, as Nicola Sturgeon is doing. This is the negotiation and

her saying we will have a referendum in September 2019 is an opening

gambit. She's saying I'm going to threaten you with a referendum if

you do not accede to my terms Brexit. I do not think the Prime

Minister, I do not know her especially well, but I do not think

she will be... Playing hardball on that might lead to the

disintegration of the UK. I think the independence issue will be

debated on its own merits. A third of the people who voted yes actually

voted for Brexit. That never comes up. But it is an issue. Some people

in Scotland, a large number, want independence from Britain but also

want independence from Brussels. So that is a big issue. We need to

leave it there. Thank you both. The Conservative MP Craig Mackinley,

who beat Nigel Farage in the Thanet South seat at the last

general election, has been interviewed by police over

the election spending There are strict rules

on what can be spent - the Conservatives have been accused

of bussing in party workers to marginal seats, and not counting

the spending as part The charges are the subject

of police investigations in different seats,

and an Electoral Commission The issue is also causing tensions

within the Tory party. Let's talk to our political

editor, Nick Watt. What has actually happened today?

Well to developments in this long-running story about whether the

Tories as you said have been using general election funding that should

have been for national spending on a local spend. Craig Mackinley was

interviewed under caution by police. He defeated Nigel Farage but Ukip

leader in that campaign and Nigel Farage said if there was to be a

by-election he could run again. And also in that campaign Theresa May's

chief of staff helped out in the campaign and the allegation is that

national funds were used to pay for hotel rooms for those staff. And the

second development is that, Carney, Conservative MP for Lincoln, one of

the MPs under investigation, has written a blistering e-mail to the

party chairman Sir Patrick McLoughlin effectively saying the

leadership is casting these MPs adrift. This e-mail is strongly

worded and shows the strength, it was forced reported by Sky News and

it says to Patrick McLoughlin, at what dazed you think you the bad

gene -- the party might inform us that another media storm is coming.

We did not create this mess, GCHQ did and their professional

reputations are not being trashed. What is Newsnight learned about

these investigations? Within the cabinet I'm hearing a confidence

that there will not be successful criminal prosecutions. I'm told for

that to happen you would have to prove intent, intent to deceive. And

this source told me on the central thing, this point about National

buses going locally and not being declared locally, it would be

difficult to say an MP intended to deceive on that. They may have been

naive but no intent to deceive. But Newsnight has significant

development on the story, we've spoken to a senior Tory figure who

has told Newsnight there is going to be trouble for the party but not

fatal trouble. This figure says, the party will definitely be fined for

breaking the rules, but this was then says they will be surprised if

there are criminal prosecutions and interestingly finally, the source

said they would be surprised if any of the MPs under investigation are

officially a formally unseeded and obliged to defend their seat in a

by-election. Thank you very much. A much anticipated general election

that will either be the latest uprising led by the forces

of populism, or the first recent The far-right candidate,

Geert Wilders, with his anti-Islam, anti-EU rhetoric,

is at or near the top His Freedom Party probably

won't take control of government - that would require coalition

partners he doesn't have. But his candidacy has put

the Netherlands at the centre of international attention,

as they cope with a diplomatic crisis with Turkey,

fears of Russian hacking, and the attention of

the American right. Gabriel Gatehouse has this

report from the Hague. Usually a laid-back affair,

comfortably ignored This time the European establishment

is wondering whether Dutch votes Among the 28 parties

vying for seats, one man The rise of Geert Wilders has left

mainstream politicians reeling. Close the borders, ban

the Koran, leave the EU The elites are struggling

to formulate a response. This morning, through the window

of a cafe on a Hague side street, the Prime Minister was taking

questions from passers by. It was a slightly awkward affair,

broadcast live on TV. In response to Geert Wilders,

he too is taking a hard Sometimes the Prime Minister told

on TV and the newspapers that people with a background that doesn't

want to belong here, just go away. And if the Prime Minister

is speaking like that, it hurts, you know, you feel like,

am I part of the Can I ask you a question in English,

from Newsnight on the BBC? Is Holland going to be the next

domino to fall in the sudden death So I'm fighting,

I'm fighting to win. And I have called this

the quarterfinals. The half finals will be the French

elections and the finals will be And this can be the first election

in five elections in a row, having had Brexit, having had

the Trump election in the US. This being the third

in a row of five. This is going to be the first one

way this domino stone So thank you very much

for this excellent question. And my compliments for your

excellent programme on BBC Two every Members of Parliament are elected

by proportional representation. Dutch politics is all about

consensus, not handbrake turns. The Dutch system basically

enforces compromise. Whatever happens in the election,

there will be a coalition, And in fact, Geert Wilders

even if he wins the largest number of seats, might not end up

being part of that coalition. But his power lies not in the fact

that he might become Prime Minister, His power lies in his ability

to shake things up. There were riots on the

streets this weekend. Such is the tension now

about the question of Islam, the government decided it was unsafe

for a Turkish Minister to visit. Some Dutch citizens of Turkish

origin were very unhappy. Others who witnessed

the violence were thinking well, They had flags from Turkey

and they yelled and they How does it make you feel

about this election coming up? I think many people will decide

to choose for Geert Wilders. By the law of unintended

consequences, an attempt to appease the Geert Wilders vote has led

to a diplomatic crisis. Turkey has suspended high-level

diplomatic relations Such discord between Nato allies

will come as an unexpected bonus to the Kremlin,

which has already cast its shadow Amid fears of Russian

hacking, the vote will be I asked the Dutch interior minister

what evidence he had seen I saw a cloud hanging

over our election results where people could conceivably

in this very polarised atmosphere that we also currently have

in the Dutch political landscape, conceivably argue that the result

would not be fair. And I decided I did not

want to take any risk with that. The mere fact of what was publicly

debated in the United States, in combination with the public

concern right now about conceivable interference, is sufficient

for me to decide this. But you appreciate it is a very

different in to say we want to eliminate all doubt,

but we have no evidence, to saying there is evidence

and therefore we have taken action. And what I say is we want to

eliminate all doubt and I don't... The Interior Ministry hired

a cyber security company to assess the vulnerability

of their electoral system. Fox IT had previously investigated

attempts to hack the Dutch government enquiry into the downing

of the Malaysian airline MH17 by a group known

as Fancy Bear or APT28, thought to be connected

to Russian intelligence. If we look at this group as APT28

and their previous targets, the White House, Nato Allied

countries, the Democratic National Committee in the US,

the Dutch security board, so yes, it makes sense

that it is their daily job to breach Dutch organisations and ministries

to get information and to get information and an advantage

in the things that they're doing There is no suggestion

the Russians are trying to help Geert Wilders,

but then he has His vision of a West swamped

by immigrants has been influential So it is five minutes to 12

for you guys as well. Here he is in Florida in 2014,

speaking at an event hosted by David Horowitz,

who is close to some of the most senior figures

in the Trump White House and who has given more than 100,000 euros

to the Geert Wilders campaign. I did not support Geert Wilders

because he anti-Islam. I support him because he's standing

up for free speech in Europe. I think all of us are happy

with Brexit and happy with the restoration

of the nation state. Because, you know, the EU

is an undemocratic bureaucracy. Geert Wilders took part

in a televised debate last night but otherwise he rarely campaigns

in public, preferring When the Prime Minister arrived

for a rally in The Hague this A pack of journalists

in search of a crisis. A politician in search

of an election. Polls will shut at 8.00pm our time -

there will be a decent The formal result based on a full

manual count takes a while - And so to France -

the other big election this spring. Marine Le Pen still leading

the polls for the first round - but trailing Emmanuel Macron

in the second. The challenge for her is to win

in a second round, when the election comes down to the final two -

the polls show her losing then. But much of the drama is not around

the top two candidates - it concerns number three,

Francois Fillon of the centre rght. He was ahead, poised to be

president, but has been caught up in a scandal,

allegedly hiring his own family for non-jobs

at the expense of the taxpayer. He has now been placed under

formal investigation Earlier I spoke to French

journalist Christine Ockrent. I asked her what happened

to Francois Fillon today, and how significant today's

development is for his campaign? Well, Evan, it's yet another turn

in this incredible presidential The Conservative candidate

has been put under full investigation by the judges,

which is really one step away from being formally charged

for embezzlement with public funds. You know, paying his wife and

children for supposedly fake jobs. Now, that investigation now

is going to take months. So paradoxically, if Fillion

was to be elected, which I very much doubt at this stage,

he would be off the track for five years because the French President

cannot be put to trial when actually What is interesting, though,

is that the core constituency of Francois Fillon is convinced

that he is a victim. Victim of, you know,

leftist media conspiracy, And so his core constituency,

however they have shrunk, The thing is that Francois Fillon

won the primaries, the Conservative And that he has been extremely

stubborn and indeed resilient in saying to his so-called political

friends, look, I'm the only And no other one can

actually step in. They've got until Friday to find

another candidate, is that right? The last, last day that they could

replace him is this week, and then the election rule

is you are stuck And my opinion is that

Francois Fillon will remain What effect can the Dutch election

have on the French election, Well, I think that if Geert Wilders,

who I think has been much overplayed by the French media for obvious

reasons, you know, the comparison If Geert Wilders does not get more

votes than the outgoing centre-right Prime Minister,

I think that will be bad news for Marine Le Pen because it

will show that that populist wave Although of course the Dutch

system is very different from ours because it's

a proportional vote whereas in France again it's

the majority vote and that's why Marine Le Pen has only two seats

in our Parliament today. Well we're watching that one closely

as we continue to do. Now if you wanted to escape

all the talk of Brexit by enjoying a night at the opera,

be careful, because there are hints The Danish citizen Kasper Holten,

has been director of opera at the Royal Opera House since 2011;

he has returned to his Danish homeland, leaving opera-goers

with an epic five-hour Wagner It's usually set in the 16th century

but Holten has introduced a more modern setting and -

not for the first time in his career It's being seen as a nod

to the changing political climate I could never do it

big enough for Kasper! I can't draw enough

attention to myself. He's 100 miles an hour and it's

very difficult to catch I used to be kind of the engine,

you know, running around and I still do that but he puts me

in the shade. Kasper Holten, for the past six

years the energetic Dane in charge of opera at London's

Royal Opera House. Holten's now departed leaving

as his swansong a new take on Wagner's Die Meistersinger von

Nurnberg. Instead of the usual setting

in a small German town, Holten's moved the opera to a smart

London gentleman's club. It talks a lot about guilt and clubs

and groups and tradition. I must admit coming to London

understanding that there are still clubs where women are not

allowed members in 2017, that that's even legal,

was to me a shock and that sense of tradition is something that

I think must be subverted. Wagner's Meistersinger

is all about subverting It tells the story of a guild

of master singers who hold The prize, remember this is set more

than 500 years ago, is marriage Into the fray comes an outsider

with a very different Nurnberg is a village, it becomes

alive in the Meistersinger and then this new virus comes into town that

keeps these old men on the balls of their feet and will

they accept something new? Die Meistersinger is about change

and about the new but also So of course you could bring our

Brexit into a piece like this. I think it's very timely,

there is change everywhere and we just have to look

here in England, in America, It's topical, you know,

there is kind of a sinister This populist kind of message that's

going out from a lot of politicians When you're directing

Meistersinger a lot of people ask about nationalism

what are you going to do about that because there is a famous speech

towards the end where it's about national identity

and national tradition. In the opera Bryn Terfel's

character sings of fighting for a sovereign Germany in the face

of foreign invaders. On the surface, he's

referring to German music traditions but the undertone

is about much more. You can say it's an opera

about Brexit, you can say it's an opera about populism,

you can say it's an opera about London in the sense that

all these things are about change. All these things are about fear,

about people struggling with how For sure, there are resonances

of the language around Brexit when you hear people talk

about the fear of foreign influences, the need to pull

back from the world. So certainly it feels very topical

in that sense but to say it's an opera about Brexit would make it

much more simple than it is. Kasper Holten isn't just

reflecting on Brexit, Trump and populism in this opera

but also looking back on his time in London where he hasn't always

been met with acclaim. A production he oversaw that

depicted a violent rape on stage William Tell by Rossini

a couple of years ago which famously here had a real,

you know, on first night there was a chorus of boos

and it felt very angry. There was a lot of people

in the audience really didn't So, of course when I have to portray

on stage a community reacting to an artist they don't like that

would be the natural Like it's really, everyone is like,

I am sorry is it just me, is this I had an almost physical reaction

remembering what it was like that I can't imagine, I don't know

what it would be like to stand on the stage having just offered up

something that you really care about and have people yell boo

at you and it's vicious. If the production was about me

trying to say boo you back how primitive and stupid

and uninteresting would that be? The opera is not about Kasper

and not about Kasper's experiences but it's me trying to make it

real and personal. Perhaps the most personal

touch in this opera He's changed the ending, not

for the first time in his career, rejecting Wagner's happily ever

after finale where the tenor gets the girl and joins

the Meistersinger singers. In Holten's production,

she turns them all down Somewhat controversial, it's a nod,

albeit a subtle one, to a rejection of populism

of any kind. Hello. In the clearer rural parts of

eastern and northern England and Scotland tonight there could be a

touch of frost around but sunny spells to begin the day tomorrow. A

lot of cloud in the west from the word go tomorrow. Damp and drizzly

in the morning