Episode 4 Nolan Live


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Episode 4

Stephen Nolan probes the issues that matter over lively debate with interesting guests.


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Welcome along to the big show and what a show we have tonight!

:00:00.:00:00.

Bob Geldof is here with his Boomtown Rats.

:00:07.:00:08.

And of course we'll be discussing the big issues that you want to talk

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There've been massive political developments across these islands

:00:13.:00:51.

Scotland is calling for another independence referendum,

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Sinn Fein want a border poll, and in Dublin, Michael Martin

:00:56.:00:58.

is looking at a paper on Irish Unification,

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and the Taoiseach wants a referendum about Irish people north

:01:02.:01:04.

of the border being allowed to vote in their presidential elections.

:01:05.:01:07.

So big, big shifts happening post-Brexit, and then

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Ireland is told, get over it, don't worry about it, it is going to be a

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frictionless border, whatever the hell that means. Nobody knows. Let

:01:27.:01:33.

me put the record straight. No border, hard or soft, will be

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accepted by the people of Ireland. But British armoured cars and tanks

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and guns couldn't do in Ireland, 27 member states will not be able to

:01:44.:01:49.

do. Theresa May, your notion of the border, hard and soft, stick it

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where the sun doesn't shine, you are not getting it in Ireland.

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Some of the audience laughing. Is that funny or offensive? I

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understand why the laughing. It got quite a lot of feed on social media.

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A lot of Unionist people were sharing it and they were having

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quite a lot of humorous comments about that performance. I think if

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you just roll back three or four weeks, you had an election where

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Sinn Fein was constantly talking about respect and I think there was

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a severe absence of respect yesterday. Whenever Martina Anderson

:02:31.:02:36.

was making a speech. Wasn't a joke? It is a clear absence of respect.

:02:37.:02:40.

The comments from Michelle O'Neill over the last number of weeks as

:02:41.:02:46.

well, the waffle, waffle, waffle comments and so forth, there has

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been a severe lack of respect shown towards our Secretary of State who

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is here to do a job and should be shown courtesy. Matt Carthy from

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Sinn Fein, what is she at? Is your party trying to wind people up no?

:02:59.:03:07.

Was that coordinated, premeditated? Anybody who has been listening to

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what Martina Anderson are any one of the forged Sinn Fein MPs have been

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seen here in Strasbourg and Brussels will be not one bit surprised by the

:03:16.:03:21.

comments of Martina Anderson. Nobody has done more to protect the

:03:22.:03:25.

interests of the people of the Northern Ireland since the

:03:26.:03:27.

referendum last year and Martina Anderson. I have joined her on a

:03:28.:03:32.

number of occasions with the European Commissioners and

:03:33.:03:34.

representatives of the council with almost every delegation represented

:03:35.:03:38.

in the European Parliament making the case as strongly as it needs to

:03:39.:03:42.

be. The people in the north of Ireland will not suffer. Here is

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what I am asking you. How has your party got any moral authority left

:03:49.:03:53.

to ask the likes of the DUP to treat it with respect? You criticise them

:03:54.:03:58.

for not taking the population with respect, when your Representative

:03:59.:04:02.

Martina Anderson tells the British Prime Minister to stick deck for the

:04:03.:04:08.

sun doesn't shine. Is she really at that base level? The question you

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asked was what she at? Does she really have... Making the case as

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forcefully as it needs to be made so people right across Europe

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understand that the potential implications for the island of

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Ireland, north and south, of Brexit are so great we cannot allow it to

:04:29.:04:35.

become part of some... It is vulgar. That is where your party is that no.

:04:36.:04:40.

Did throw that type of offence at the British minister is vulgar, is

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it not? The point has been made as forcefully as needs to be made and

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we continue to make this point. Under no circumstances can we see

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any hardening of the Irish border. The reality is that lots of people

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in Ireland, north and south, going to suffer as a result of Brexit. The

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implications were always great as a result of Brexit. All of the

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challenges and problems presented are exacerbated because we are no

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fees with the prospect that one part of our country will be taken out of

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the EU is remaining. That is not the current discussion in Northern

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Ireland. The current discussion is the language that your party has

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used while asking other parties to show respect. It is one of your

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campaign slogans, for goodness sake. And then you should -- through that

:05:27.:05:33.

type of abuse at a British payments. White are you smiling? What is funny

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about it? If you want to be sensitive, that's your own business.

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Sinn Fein have been consistent in saying that we will argue and demand

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at every single opportunity in every single for privately and publicly we

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need to ensure there are special arrangements put in place so we

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don't see any hardening of the Irish border because the complications and

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implications of any such move would be so great that the error just

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simply an copperhead will to us and we are not going to tolerate any

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situation where a British Government behave as we have been doing for the

:06:07.:06:10.

past number of months, setting out their own strategies Brexit that

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doesn't give a single iota of concern for the invitations that

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will have for any county in Ireland, whether the six counties in the

:06:22.:06:24.

north or any of the rest. We see the implications for agriculture,

:06:25.:06:27.

business, students, the economy and the ever so great we need to make

:06:28.:06:32.

those points forcefully. When it comes to agriculture, the vast

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majority of the farming community voted to leave the European Union.

:06:36.:06:39.

The reason they voted to leave the European Union is they were sick,

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sore and tired of the regulations imposed upon them and the

:06:43.:06:46.

regulations posed upon business in general. How do you know the

:06:47.:06:52.

majority of them voted to leave? Doing the doors for the election,

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the Assembly election which took place before the European

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referendum, farmer after farmer after farmer was telling us that

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message, over and over again. A vast majority of Nationalist farmers, I

:07:06.:07:08.

believe, voted against, voted to leave the European Union as well. I

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speak to a lot of people and that committee. I know that community

:07:17.:07:19.

well and the voted to get out of Europe because they are sick so and

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tired of the regulations of people in Brussels telling them how to do

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their job and not telling them very well how to do it. They have been

:07:27.:07:30.

huge constraint on the welfare of agriculture, huge problems for

:07:31.:07:34.

agriculture and the benefits have come from Brussels are far

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outweighed by all of the rest... Go ahead. Picture hand up. With the SNP

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asking for a second independence referendum and Sinn Fein gesturing

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towards the border poll, it is time the British Government started

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taking the devolved institutions more seriously in the negotiations

:07:54.:07:58.

about Brexit? I think that is right. We need to take the devolved

:07:59.:08:02.

institutions and the whole of the United Kingdom and the Irish all

:08:03.:08:05.

talking together to work out how do we make the union work better. Not

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how do because to fall apart. Is direct rule free period going to be

:08:13.:08:17.

better? We want our Government any here and showing respect to each

:08:18.:08:22.

other. You think that can be done in three weeks? Three weeks of is what

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it starts with. We need to sort it was happening with our hospitals,

:08:29.:08:32.

schools, there is so much that needs to be done here. There is ten days

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left. You any closer to getting the deal? Work is taking place, I think

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next week will be a very, very busy week for all of us. Considerable

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background work is being done. Any compromise between new? You go into

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negotiations with a willingness to look at what other people are asking

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for, explore that and Testament as to why they're asking for it. To

:09:00.:09:05.

resolve issues. You don't go in with the hard-nosed attitude. At the same

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time, we intend to be tough in the negotiations but pragmatic in terms

:09:10.:09:13.

of getting the Assembly back in the room again. At any cost? Not at any

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cost. We are your red lines? We are not setting red lines. We are in

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there to negotiate. You have set red lines. There will never be an Irish

:09:27.:09:33.

Language Act under Arlene Foster. That is the red line. Is Sinn Fein

:09:34.:09:38.

would prefer James Brokenshire to be running Northern Ireland, van

:09:39.:09:44.

working with the DUP we want to actually run Northern Ireland, we

:09:45.:09:47.

want people in Northern Ireland to be making the decisions on behalf of

:09:48.:09:51.

the people of Northern Ireland. If Sinn Fein want to bring a British

:09:52.:09:54.

director Ronald ministered to build Northern Ireland, that'll be up to

:09:55.:10:03.

them. Go ahead. Does Theresa May's stands towards Nicola Sturgeon's

:10:04.:10:07.

Brexit concerns come straight out of Arlene Foster's hand-picked and is

:10:08.:10:13.

it helpful? What do you mean? The way she is just denouncing Nicola

:10:14.:10:18.

Sturgeon's concerns about Brexit. Theresa May doesn't seem to be

:10:19.:10:22.

taking anybody's concerns about this Brexit thing seriously apart from

:10:23.:10:27.

those concerns in her own party. There is a lot of truth in what you

:10:28.:10:32.

say. Certainly, the response of Theresa May to the mandate that

:10:33.:10:36.

Nicola Sturgeon has in Scotland was quite derisory and I think she has

:10:37.:10:42.

made it more difficult for herself to sell any future day with the

:10:43.:10:46.

devolved administrations. It has been our experience and experience

:10:47.:10:52.

of Scotland in particular. That is borne out in part by the comments of

:10:53.:10:57.

Martina Anderson, the lack of knowledge, around Brexit, what a

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double meaning, it is not just in terms of the border but the economy

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and our relationships. Even within England, it looks as though those

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who campaign for Brexit, once they've won, the actually jump ship

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and left it there. And now the hour trying to interpret what Brexit will

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mean. I actually think Theresa May's comments to Nicola Sturgeon were

:11:21.:11:24.

most unhelpful. Help me understand how that is not going to be some

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type of hard border. Help me understand how someone can walk

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effortlessly in and out of Europe. Northern Ireland will be outside of

:11:36.:11:38.

Europe, Ireland will be within inside Europe I can just walk over

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the border and there will be no checks. Is that right? Two choices.

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We could have a hard border, there could be checks. What Sinn Fein are

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seeing and we are seeing in the north last year, is that that wasn't

:11:54.:11:56.

something that was acceptable to them. How does your secure its

:11:57.:12:03.

border? What we have been putting forward is an argument for the north

:12:04.:12:08.

to receive special starters so it would remain part of the European

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Union. So there is no border at all? The border would be maintained on an

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island of Ireland basis, people coming in leaving the island of

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Ireland, would go through the same immigration controls. Would that

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work? Not necessarily. The border we have been told from the evidence

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given in the Northern Ireland affairs committee, the European side

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had to have checks for goods but as far as the Common travel area,

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people can move freely. It is only on the goods. There is a long way to

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go on negotiations and a lot to be played out. What happens with the

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dudes? What has been proposed by Sinn Fein is fantasy politics. That

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won't happen. There is no prospect of that happening. I don't want to

:12:57.:13:02.

remain in the European Union, I want out. I wouldn't be fighting for it.

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It is up to the Europeans what happens with the border. Theresa May

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doesn't want a hard border. The political representatives in

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Northern Ireland want a hard border. But if Europe insists they are going

:13:19.:13:21.

to have these tariffs and all of that there, it would be to the

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detriment of Europe because Britain imports twice as many goods to

:13:25.:13:28.

Europe as it exports from it. If the are going to be like this and going

:13:29.:13:36.

to insist on this, it will certainly be some kind of border. You have no

:13:37.:13:41.

problem with a hard border? We want the border to remain as it is, but

:13:42.:13:45.

if it's going to be imposed, is going to be imposed at the behest of

:13:46.:13:49.

the European Union. Martina Anderson was targeting the wrong person.

:13:50.:13:53.

Theresa May doesn't want a hard border. It's the Europeans who will

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impose it upon us, not Theresa May. It is Britain that will be doing it

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if they leave the customs union. You have different trading policies on

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either side of the border, you have to have physical checks. You cannot

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avoid it. We want is special deal for Northern Ireland, that could be

:14:13.:14:15.

wearing Northern Ireland stays in the European union, like Norway.

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What is the boat? In Northern Ireland the vote was for yes and

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quite clearly we have to appreciate a one size fits all Brexit across

:14:30.:14:34.

the UK is not going to work. It would work for Scotland, Northern

:14:35.:14:38.

Ireland. We have our peace process, I Good Friday Agreement, we are a

:14:39.:14:42.

divided society, we are now going down this road of... Why does this

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matter in terms of Europe? We need stability. The only way to have it

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is if we have some recognition of our special circumstances. If we are

:14:58.:15:00.

dragged out of the European Union against the well of local people

:15:01.:15:03.

without some form of special deal that recognises the fact... What

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special deal? We single market, European funding, how we protect the

:15:11.:15:13.

Good Friday Agreement. The whole essence of the agreement is that

:15:14.:15:18.

people buy into this shared space. People can operate on a north side

:15:19.:15:24.

bases, east west bases. What Brexit is about is beating downlines.

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Do you think we get a special deal? There is no prospect of it. I was

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speaking to our leader this week and she was talking about some form of

:15:41.:15:44.

special arrangement. She is not talking the Sinn Fein version of

:15:45.:15:53.

staying in the EU budget -- but she has recognising... What special deal

:15:54.:16:02.

does she want? I am aware of what the DUP has signed up to. It is for

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them to answer what they are talking about. You have hinted at it. Last

:16:07.:16:15.

summer they wrote a joint letter to the Prime Minister which touched on

:16:16.:16:17.

a number of issues facing Northern Ireland. There was a set of

:16:18.:16:23.

principles agreed... You said you spoke this week to Arlene Foster. I

:16:24.:16:34.

can see what they don't want is for Northern Ireland to remain part of

:16:35.:16:37.

the EU but they're saying it is different from the rest of the UK

:16:38.:16:42.

and we have to recognise that. She hasn't told you she wants a special

:16:43.:16:49.

deal. She says she recognises there are a special circumstances. If we

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had devilish -- devolution restored... It was a UK wide vote,

:16:56.:17:04.

special circumstances are not going to work. We knew it was either we

:17:05.:17:10.

are going as the UK are we are staying. I voted to leave. Northern

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Ireland voted to stay but it was a UK wide vote. Sinn Fein and anyone

:17:22.:17:29.

else should accept it. With respect, really what people thought about was

:17:30.:17:32.

just leaving the EU and getting extra millions into the health

:17:33.:17:43.

service. That disappeared quickly. That is the ?350 million a week on

:17:44.:17:50.

the side of the bus. It wasn't just that, Arlene made a comment during

:17:51.:17:57.

the week where she said there should be a special deal for Northern

:17:58.:18:01.

Ireland. America further and say that in terms of Brexit it is

:18:02.:18:10.

regrettable that the DUP fronted for a research group UK wide further

:18:11.:18:19.

Brexit campaign. It is very patronising to people. You know what

:18:20.:18:25.

it means but the public doesn't. Nobody knows what it means. Even

:18:26.:18:31.

those who campaigned for it. It means we are casting the shackles of

:18:32.:18:37.

Europe. It means the fifth largest economy in the world will run its

:18:38.:18:43.

own business. We have been relegated already. Tell that to the firms that

:18:44.:18:53.

might move back to France. Their economy has risen since the Brexit

:18:54.:18:58.

decision, employment and business have gone up and the economy is

:18:59.:19:05.

thriving. Are you saying the economy is thriving? The economy of the UK

:19:06.:19:13.

is thriving. There is more wealth amongst about 6% of the people and

:19:14.:19:16.

greater levels of poverty amongst a 90%. I know some other parties like

:19:17.:19:26.

to talk Northern Ireland down but our unemployment rate is half of

:19:27.:19:30.

what the average of Europe is. And look what our average salary is and

:19:31.:19:36.

the level of child poverty. We are talking Northern Ireland town again.

:19:37.:19:43.

It is about facing the facts. 48 workers this week, told the jobs

:19:44.:19:52.

were going, you covered that. In the absence of a devolved

:19:53.:20:01.

administration. That particular course of work was one I had

:20:02.:20:06.

actually saved. Civil servants in the absence of politicians have

:20:07.:20:09.

taken it away. All the more reason to sort ourselves out. We covered it

:20:10.:20:21.

on the show. It was an organisation that helped involvement will -- help

:20:22.:20:28.

vulnerable families. The civil servants have told them it is over.

:20:29.:20:34.

The civil service and health and social care board said it was a

:20:35.:20:38.

pilot project but civil servants have said that is it. 47 people are

:20:39.:20:43.

going to lose their jobs and there have been some vulnerable people

:20:44.:20:46.

contacting the shorter safe they are desperate now. Early intervention

:20:47.:20:58.

that took place with those families will save us hundreds of thousands

:20:59.:21:02.

of pounds each year because young people will get a chance in life. It

:21:03.:21:16.

is government. -- it is gone. We are prepared to get to the bottom of the

:21:17.:21:21.

problems that were around. Sinn Fein decided they would take advantage of

:21:22.:21:30.

the situation. Might you sacrifice your leader in order for governments

:21:31.:21:35.

to be restored in Northern Ireland because Sinn Fein are saying they

:21:36.:21:38.

will not go into government with you while Arlene Foster is being

:21:39.:21:45.

investigated? We fully support our leader. If anybody wants to dictate

:21:46.:21:50.

to the DUP as to who we nominate for any position, they will find it is

:21:51.:21:55.

our choice. We did not tell Sinn Fein that their people were

:21:56.:22:03.

unacceptable. If we listen carefully to what you have said, you're not

:22:04.:22:07.

saying that Arlene Foster will definitely be your leader nominated

:22:08.:22:12.

for the First Minister post. You might give her away. It is for hard

:22:13.:22:19.

to make that decision herself but we are not offering up Arlene Foster do

:22:20.:22:35.

-- to anybody. What you are not saying and what Arlene Foster is not

:22:36.:22:39.

saying is that she will definitely be the nominated candidate. You are

:22:40.:22:48.

leaving it open as an option. We are not setting red lines. Arlene Foster

:22:49.:22:58.

as a leader of a political party gained more seats than other

:22:59.:23:04.

political parties, why are you not saying that she will be the

:23:05.:23:09.

designated candidate? It is for her to make that decision and we are 100

:23:10.:23:14.

cent binder and if she nominates herself to be First Minister and

:23:15.:23:17.

then she will have our full endorsement. Has she talked about an

:23:18.:23:29.

option of her standing aside? No. So the uniform statement from the DUP

:23:30.:23:35.

is that it is her decision, you are all coincidentally saying the same

:23:36.:23:39.

thing. It just makes sense. That was was her decision as to who she would

:23:40.:23:46.

nominate last time as well. It is the job of the leader of the party.

:23:47.:23:50.

Do you think the union is under threat? No. Is Dublin circling

:23:51.:23:59.

around the union? People read into the election results that the unions

:24:00.:24:10.

are in a minute or two in the Assembly, even in the election were

:24:11.:24:13.

Sinn Fein worked so hard to get the vote out, still people came out to

:24:14.:24:19.

vote for Unionist parties. I voted to remain for a number of reasons

:24:20.:24:24.

but one was because I grew up on the border and I know what it is like

:24:25.:24:29.

living beside a visible hardboard and nobody from the panel can tell

:24:30.:24:33.

me what it is going to be like when we leave Europe, what my family will

:24:34.:24:46.

have to face. -- heart border. I had to cross the border to buy things,

:24:47.:24:53.

to practice my faith. Nobody understands what a heart border is

:24:54.:24:59.

to the people that live on it. There are so many people who live on

:25:00.:25:16.

the border and cross it all the time. We have big populations on

:25:17.:25:19.

either side so we have to restrict the UK not to leave the customs

:25:20.:25:26.

union. Europe is the biggest market so why are we throwing that we? If

:25:27.:25:32.

we can keep everyone in the customs union and think about the single

:25:33.:25:35.

market for Ireland then there are prospects of surviving and the

:25:36.:25:43.

region flourishing. The UK Government are being and talking in

:25:44.:25:52.

platitudes and meaningless phrases. What is most crucial is that we will

:25:53.:25:57.

get nowhere in terms of fighting for Northern Ireland unless we have an

:25:58.:26:00.

executive that is functional with a clear plan around Brexit. Therefore,

:26:01.:26:12.

to flip some of the questions, why doesn't Sinn Fein in the interests

:26:13.:26:16.

of the people of Northern Ireland, go into this negotiation now without

:26:17.:26:28.

any red lines? That is the spirit that Sinn Fein are entering the

:26:29.:26:32.

negotiation. You are dictating to them who their leader will be. We

:26:33.:26:38.

are stating clearly that we don't have the confidence in Arlene Foster

:26:39.:26:42.

that would allow us to support her nomination for First Minister while

:26:43.:26:49.

the cloud is still hanging over her. Does this DUP have confidence in

:26:50.:26:56.

Michelle O'Neill when she celebrates and engages and aligns himself with

:26:57.:27:00.

people who tried to put bullets into policemen many years ago? --

:27:01.:27:14.

herself. There are no clouds hanging over her in relation to cash

:27:15.:27:21.

scandals. She was found guilty by a judge as to how she administered her

:27:22.:27:24.

department in the Department of agriculture. I am sitting on an

:27:25.:27:31.

uncomfortable seat here and I have listened to the whole debate and I

:27:32.:27:38.

like to be able to complete one sentence without interruption. I

:27:39.:27:41.

think it is clear we need to say this. An earlier contribution quite

:27:42.:27:46.

rightly said that Theresa May, the Irish government, EU institutions,

:27:47.:27:52.

they are happy to say there should be no return to a hard border. But

:27:53.:27:59.

what do they all mean by marker on? Some cases it is the simple free

:28:00.:28:04.

movement of people. To us what a hard border is is anything that

:28:05.:28:09.

makes it more difficult for farmers for example to operate or trade in

:28:10.:28:17.

an all Ireland basis, for other businesses to operate, for students

:28:18.:28:24.

to travel across the border, anything that makes it more

:28:25.:28:26.

difficult for communities on either side of the border. The truth of the

:28:27.:28:32.

matter is that all of those things are up in there and up for

:28:33.:28:37.

negotiation as a result of the failure of the British government. I

:28:38.:28:45.

was going to ask who will man the border and who will pay for the

:28:46.:28:50.

people on the border? Who is going to man the border? There is a

:28:51.:28:55.

reality that given what happens during the troubles with the many

:28:56.:29:01.

soldiers and police officers, it is not realistic to have a customs

:29:02.:29:04.

borrowers would have been the case many years ago. A lot of it has to

:29:05.:29:10.

be around technology in terms of people movement. Even on goods it

:29:11.:29:16.

will have to be around technology. It is in the best interest of

:29:17.:29:21.

everyone that the EU do not insist that Britain leaves the single

:29:22.:29:25.

market. And that we all stay in the single market. Consequently we don't

:29:26.:29:31.

have a heart border. We have to move on.

:29:32.:29:35.

Well, you all know this show is all about the politics

:29:36.:29:38.

He's a household name who doesn't mince his words and likes to get

:29:39.:29:43.

You are on the European Parliament fishing committee and you are

:29:44.:30:00.

attempted one out of 43 meetings. -- attended. You are a fraud, Nigel.

:30:01.:30:11.

The gentle, he doesn't shout very much, please welcome Sir Bob Geldof.

:30:12.:30:17.

Good to see you. Hello. Help me get my head around where you are

:30:18.:30:31.

rattling your head with Brexit. It is, without question, the greatest

:30:32.:30:35.

act of national self harm that has ever been perpetrated in history.

:30:36.:30:42.

APPLAUSE And yet you are a Democrat and you

:30:43.:30:47.

respect the referendum. Where people stupid? I accepted, I don't respect

:30:48.:30:51.

it. I rejected argument but accept its result. Over the next two years,

:30:52.:30:58.

I will do everything in my power to undermine what Theresa May is doing,

:30:59.:31:03.

everything in my power within the Democratic confines. Why do you

:31:04.:31:08.

think you lost the referendum? Why do you think people voted for

:31:09.:31:14.

Brexit? I have got the passport and the kids of all got is, thank God.

:31:15.:31:22.

But it was an emotional moment and we know that it was the dawn of

:31:23.:31:28.

alternative facts and features news, we know that now. We knew it then.

:31:29.:31:32.

If you look at recent studies over the last few weeks, queer people

:31:33.:31:36.

have a certain sentiment about something and the told something

:31:37.:31:41.

menial to be false. -- certain people. There is a sense that this

:31:42.:31:50.

is better for us, it is not working at all. Where I would agree is that

:31:51.:31:55.

the EU is not functioning. I have been dealing with it with 30 years

:31:56.:32:00.

with regard to Africa and there is a bureaucratic mess. That's not to say

:32:01.:32:04.

the UK does not go in to the heart of this thing. The French are afraid

:32:05.:32:13.

of Germany. My main argument throughout all of this was that one

:32:14.:32:19.

singular reason I would vote to remain, and it goes to this country

:32:20.:32:24.

here, one singular reason is I will never, I will never vote for my

:32:25.:32:31.

children or my grandchildren to go to war. Never. I will never do that.

:32:32.:32:36.

If we are reduced, if Britain is the loose thread on the EU cardigan and

:32:37.:32:40.

we have pulled it with Brexit and the whole thing begins to unravel,

:32:41.:32:46.

stay with me, then we are reduced to economic competing states. When

:32:47.:32:50.

states compete economically and the small guy says that's my field over

:32:51.:32:53.

there and if you don't give it to me, I will get my mate rush out to

:32:54.:32:58.

give it to me. We are back to World War I and we are the most ardent,

:32:59.:33:02.

the most dangerous, the most tribal and wealthy continent ever for 2000

:33:03.:33:08.

years, we fought each other, the one great triumph of the EU is we have

:33:09.:33:13.

had 70 years of peace and look what the belt. You seriously think Brexit

:33:14.:33:19.

could lead to another war? It could lead to an unravelling of this

:33:20.:33:25.

desperately complex compact. If it does lead to an unravelling, we are

:33:26.:33:31.

already in a brutal world war anyway with proxy. Things like Al-Qaeda and

:33:32.:33:37.

Isis fighting each other. Not so much under the wire any more. You

:33:38.:33:45.

know me, I know you, I bought the artist of people. Stay where I am

:33:46.:33:50.

coming from. 1814 was the Battle of Waterloo, one century had to die and

:33:51.:33:53.

another had to be born because there was new technology. It resulted in

:33:54.:34:01.

an afternoon, a day of Matt Kuchar. The greater the first day of the

:34:02.:34:07.

Somme, get rid of old politics because a new economy is coming.

:34:08.:34:12.

Must we repeat that the 21st-century? No. You are not

:34:13.:34:18.

seriously suggesting... I am. Within our lifetime, a few years our

:34:19.:34:23.

European partners fighting with this country in a war? You are not

:34:24.:34:28.

suggesting that. If you look at Russia and a thug like Vladimir

:34:29.:34:35.

Putin, already illegally invading Crimea and he is starring in the

:34:36.:34:39.

Balkans, big-time, where he currently tried to... That is very

:34:40.:34:48.

First World War. The Balkans are frightened to death. Britain has

:34:49.:34:52.

sent 800 troops out there, Germany has sent 500, they are scared of

:34:53.:34:58.

sending their own troops. We are in one here and the people here talking

:34:59.:35:01.

about the border, please guys, please, please, please let's not go

:35:02.:35:08.

back to that, please. Let's not go back to that nonsense that we have

:35:09.:35:12.

had to put up with here, please. What do you mean? The border. There

:35:13.:35:19.

may be. This is the worst Government. I am serious. You have

:35:20.:35:25.

an odious unprincipled creep, and unfunny clown as Foreign Secretary,

:35:26.:35:29.

he really is awful. A very popular man. He lied his way to try and get

:35:30.:35:35.

into position. He has no principle other than herself. He was a lousy

:35:36.:35:41.

mayor. He is a clown. This is anti-democratic. You are pumping

:35:42.:35:46.

your anger into all of these people and denigrating them as characters.

:35:47.:35:52.

Boris Johnson was one of the most popular politicians. That is what

:35:53.:35:56.

you do on a nightly basis. You get paid for it, I don't.

:35:57.:36:05.

APPLAUSE Johnson is useless. He is not up to

:36:06.:36:11.

the job. He goes off and denigrate leaders to diseases. Hello. You talk

:36:12.:36:15.

about that moment in Brussels. David Davis who I know and spoke far in

:36:16.:36:19.

his constituency when he stood down on the 42 days, he asked me if I

:36:20.:36:28.

would go and he came. I spoke with him, he has never done a negotiation

:36:29.:36:32.

in his life. What is your sense of what's happening here in Northern

:36:33.:36:36.

Ireland? Some people are worried. Our Government has fallen. The two

:36:37.:36:40.

big parties, people would argue, they entrenching now into their core

:36:41.:36:49.

base and he did have the DUP on easily talking before the election

:36:50.:36:55.

about a radical Republican agenda, that Sinn Fein have. And you have

:36:56.:37:00.

Sinn Fein talking about Irish unity and very much appealing to their

:37:01.:37:04.

base. Are you worried about what's happening in Northern Ireland? We

:37:05.:37:10.

have no Government. We have no Government and that is really a

:37:11.:37:14.

shame that it's come down to two views of what this places. -- what

:37:15.:37:22.

this place is. You see it's a radical Republican agenda, I don't

:37:23.:37:25.

want to speak about the politics in this place because an city before

:37:26.:37:28.

the show, it is not pertinent because I don't know enough about

:37:29.:37:34.

it. I am for staying in Europe. It's a mess but you can change it. I saw

:37:35.:37:40.

the representative of the DUP about farmers. The farmers will be killed

:37:41.:37:44.

by this. The young people who voted against it, the future has been

:37:45.:37:49.

taken from them. This is true, Stephen. You don't know. It's an

:37:50.:37:54.

unknown. Of course you know, look at the facts. A deal hasn't been done

:37:55.:38:02.

yet. What you are you talking about? The Theresa May is going to be

:38:03.:38:07.

negotiated. This is nonsense. It is the Crystal Method Government. The

:38:08.:38:12.

are saying it's going to be great. Let me tell you, hope is not a plan.

:38:13.:38:18.

What do people do now? You say you're going to spend every minute

:38:19.:38:23.

you can under many Theresa May. I will be playing with the The

:38:24.:38:30.

Boomtown Rats and he is up there and doesn't care what he says. You did

:38:31.:38:34.

say you're going to try and undermine what Theresa May is doing.

:38:35.:38:39.

What can you do? I have got no power at all but I can only persuade with

:38:40.:38:42.

absolute evidence as opposed to the lies that people vote on. I respect

:38:43.:38:47.

the people who voted for all the reasons they voted but I reject your

:38:48.:38:51.

argument and it is my democratic right, just like you don't like what

:38:52.:38:55.

happened in this election, so you must keep the argument going. Where

:38:56.:39:00.

is the opposition in parliament and Westminster? Where is it? Nicola

:39:01.:39:04.

Sturgeon is the opposition. What happened to the Labour Party? BIP to

:39:05.:39:08.

be Her Majesty Buzz 's official opposition, it isn't clear. May keep

:39:09.:39:15.

seeing the people of Britain, no they didn't. Some couldn't be

:39:16.:39:19.

bothered. 48 million said no and some are too young to vote. The vast

:39:20.:39:24.

majority of people said no or didn't vote at all. This must be fought

:39:25.:39:28.

tooth and nail because it's existential to the future of

:39:29.:39:34.

Britain. You go out and you argue. You go out and you campaign, you

:39:35.:39:38.

walk in the streets, I know it's a drag. And who cares what I see? But

:39:39.:39:45.

it's so important that my kids can have a life. I watched these guys

:39:46.:39:50.

here in the front row nodding and objecting. I don't know how you

:39:51.:39:55.

voted, lads, but my life was we would be queueing overnight on

:39:56.:39:59.

borders with the checked every guitar, every amplifier, sleeping in

:40:00.:40:01.

seats where we try to cross the border. Then the EU happens and we

:40:02.:40:06.

breezed through. When I was trying to go around Europe getting any job

:40:07.:40:11.

I could, I had to go under the wire and get rubbish jobs. Now, you get a

:40:12.:40:16.

Ryanair over to Berlin for a weekend, you go to the club, you

:40:17.:40:20.

like it, you find someone, you go to the flat, you hang out. Maybe stay a

:40:21.:40:26.

week. I'd apply for a job. That's over! The future is closed. Get

:40:27.:40:33.

stuck in at open it up. Where do you get this energy from? From you.

:40:34.:40:43.

APPLAUSE Seriously though. It's not for me to

:40:44.:40:47.

see what you're saying is right or wrong but I love your passion. Do

:40:48.:40:54.

you never actually... I bore people. I really wish I didn't. I told you

:40:55.:41:00.

my whizbang plan, you said that will never work. Here is the plan. If

:41:01.:41:06.

only to a Theresa May, here is the plan. It is the Hibernian

:41:07.:41:11.

federation. You are not going onto the next ten minutes. You have got

:41:12.:41:18.

20 seconds. Everything is up for grabs. You on a rock star and

:41:19.:41:25.

talking about this. We get Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic,

:41:26.:41:29.

the three capsules, three separate entities but they join up in a

:41:30.:41:33.

federation, it back to Earth Scotland into the EU, the except the

:41:34.:41:40.

euro, for the Republic, the keep all the benefits of an additional larger

:41:41.:41:44.

economy, for Northern Ireland to keep the benefits of the EU while

:41:45.:41:50.

expanding their pop -- economy and Theresa May starts worrying. Don't

:41:51.:41:59.

you blame me that we haven't had time to talk about the fact that you

:42:00.:42:03.

are coming to Belfast. You are playing next Friday. For the first

:42:04.:42:08.

time in years. Why and coming back? I love it. I love it here. We all

:42:09.:42:19.

do. We have been here, coming for 40 years. It has always been fantastic

:42:20.:42:23.

playing here, one of the greatest venues. Belfast was always the best

:42:24.:42:30.

venue. Belfast, Glasgow, to play. We are a mega- band, probably the

:42:31.:42:32.

greatest band in the world, as you know. Shut up! And we are coming

:42:33.:42:38.

back to prove the point. I wish I could get away with wearing a suit

:42:39.:42:44.

like that. You won't! Bob, thanks very much. You're going to sing for

:42:45.:42:48.

us later on. Thanks. We will hear from Sir Bob Geldof

:42:49.:42:52.

later on, he's going to sing for us. Right, it's that time of year again,

:42:53.:42:58.

St Patrick's Day, and if you're wondering about the Universities'

:42:59.:43:01.

policy of giving a reading day to students today and tomorrow,

:43:02.:43:03.

it's because they are trying to encourage students to leave

:43:04.:43:06.

the area and avoid a repeat of this. Imagine living in

:43:07.:43:09.

the middle of this. A lot of the students are gathering

:43:10.:43:35.

already tonight to start the party. We sent a camera up

:43:36.:43:38.

to the University area to hear We don't do anything except drinking

:43:39.:43:53.

our own gardens because the union would get involved. -- University.

:43:54.:44:02.

We are getting a hard time and we are not doing any harm. It is not

:44:03.:44:07.

fair to brand all the students with that image. It is unrealistic to

:44:08.:44:11.

what St Patrick's Day is about for all of us. It is about celebrating

:44:12.:44:23.

your heritage. It is not as if everyone who lives here is actively

:44:24.:44:28.

bad. It is that once you are there it is easy to be drawn into the

:44:29.:44:33.

wrong lifestyle. It is a religious day but students think otherwise.

:44:34.:44:40.

But I am in equilibria, I don't mind getting drunk or sitting chilled, it

:44:41.:44:45.

will be a good night. Students work hard all year round and then one day

:44:46.:44:52.

of the year they want to get have a good day. There is letter but it

:44:53.:45:02.

doesn't cost that much to clean up. We get the impression that

:45:03.:45:05.

universities are going to be penalties on us and we are going to

:45:06.:45:10.

get kicked out but it is not as, it is the people who are coming up. I

:45:11.:45:15.

think we have to have respect for everyone in the area. What residents

:45:16.:45:23.

live there now, realistically? There are more students than residents so

:45:24.:45:34.

surely our voice should be louder. What residents realistically live

:45:35.:45:39.

their? What residents want is a quiet night. St Patrick's Day is

:45:40.:45:45.

focused on Saint Patrick at the minute but we have practical every

:45:46.:45:51.

term night of the week there is something going on. People clear off

:45:52.:45:57.

about half past ten, they front-load beforehand. It gets quiet for about

:45:58.:46:03.

three hours until about three o'clock and they come back shouting

:46:04.:46:09.

and running over cars and it isn't fun. We have been talking about

:46:10.:46:19.

this, since about 20 years ago when I was skinny, you have lost the

:46:20.:46:23.

argument. This goes on every year. It doesn't mean it is right. It

:46:24.:46:31.

means you're not going to stop it. The police have offered three times

:46:32.:46:37.

the number of officers over the period coming up to St Patrick's

:46:38.:46:41.

Day. The argument is with the wrong people. This problem was created by

:46:42.:46:47.

property developers funded by the Housing executive. We have created a

:46:48.:46:52.

ghetto for students. If I was 18 years old on Friday morning I'll be

:46:53.:46:56.

down there at ten o'clock with my own bottle of cider cos that is what

:46:57.:47:01.

young people do. But we created a ghetto in which you bring thousands

:47:02.:47:05.

of young people together. It has been ruined. You think what it was

:47:06.:47:12.

30 or 20 years ago, it was the best mixed area in Belfast. It was a

:47:13.:47:18.

beautiful area, I lived there and had friends there, Protestant and

:47:19.:47:23.

Catholic, people at the University, working-class people, it was

:47:24.:47:29.

wonderful. It was destroyed by developers and the whole plan to

:47:30.:47:35.

create an area first and is. It is now a zoo. I don't think it is fair

:47:36.:47:44.

to call it a zoo but also not fair for us to concentrate on saying it

:47:45.:47:53.

is the fault of students. Did you live there? Certainly no. He

:47:54.:48:04.

wouldn't live their? I mean, I moved home from London a few weeks ago.

:48:05.:48:09.

I'm staying on the Mullen wrote. That doesn't help my case at all,

:48:10.:48:15.

does it? Why do we focus on students? Because they're getting

:48:16.:48:24.

drunk. The majority of people who go there on St Patrick's Day are

:48:25.:48:27.

actually just young people who are not students but they know that is

:48:28.:48:31.

where you have to go. In fact, students face a lot of consequences

:48:32.:48:37.

and penalties from universities which is more of a disincentive. You

:48:38.:48:44.

remember freshers week. If you go on the first week outside Queens,

:48:45.:48:50.

people are giving out drinks vouchers, the entire bar culture of

:48:51.:48:55.

self Belfast is constructive and students in the first thing you get

:48:56.:49:01.

when you arrive in Belfast as a student is not your books or grant,

:49:02.:49:07.

it is a drinks voucher. And the students bring their friends, their

:49:08.:49:11.

younger siblings, people come into the area. It is because the students

:49:12.:49:18.

that they are attracted all. They're coming for a big party. It is not

:49:19.:49:24.

the way to behave nowadays. There is no respect shown to people who have

:49:25.:49:28.

lived there. You're not the enemy here but you represent the students.

:49:29.:49:36.

Do you think they care? I am neither a student nor a representative of

:49:37.:49:39.

them so I would encourage any students in the audience to speak up

:49:40.:49:44.

for themselves. I think a great deal of them do care. Think about the

:49:45.:49:49.

people who do cause upset, and I am not defending them at all, people

:49:50.:49:53.

who break the law are subject to the law. No, they're not. They ought to

:49:54.:50:04.

be. The you're not allowed to walk openly with open cans of beer or

:50:05.:50:10.

whatever, and they do it and get away with it. I would never condone

:50:11.:50:19.

anti-social behaviour but the problem is more holistic. All year

:50:20.:50:26.

round you have absentee landlords, rundown areas, housing that needs

:50:27.:50:32.

investment in regeneration. Rundown housing doesn't prompt them to get

:50:33.:50:37.

drunk on St Patrick's Day. If they took an interest around the whole

:50:38.:50:41.

year where there is a lot of reinvestment to be done then maybe

:50:42.:50:44.

the problem would be solved. Your demonising students yet we are one

:50:45.:50:48.

of the main economic contributors around that area. What, with buying

:50:49.:50:56.

drink? We rent out the houses and we're shopping and creating an

:50:57.:51:03.

economic injection into the economy. I think the mistake was destroying a

:51:04.:51:06.

beautiful area by putting students there. Property developers made big

:51:07.:51:11.

money out of it and the Housing executive put money to fund them to

:51:12.:51:14.

redevelop and you have created... I would break it up. Try to get some

:51:15.:51:21.

accommodation for students outside of the area. Distribute it so they

:51:22.:51:28.

are not bundled together in mass numbers. Separate them and restore

:51:29.:51:33.

it to what it was, a lovely housing area. Is one day of partying that

:51:34.:51:41.

bad? It is constant. You're talking about people not being prosecuted,

:51:42.:51:47.

in one year less than ten people were prosecuted for drinking and if

:51:48.:51:53.

you walk down on St Patrick's Day you'll see about 1000 and the worst

:51:54.:51:57.

that has happened is able get their bottle taken off them. Should the

:51:58.:52:05.

PSNI not just do their job and sorted out? Make sure they are there

:52:06.:52:10.

whenever the students go home, stop the riotous behaviour? It would be

:52:11.:52:16.

difficult for the police to remove alcohol from hundreds. They could.

:52:17.:52:23.

We pay hundreds of pounds assistance to live there but the way that Irish

:52:24.:52:34.

firms act during the Euros, they get rewarded for acting the same way we

:52:35.:52:42.

act on St Patrick's Day. -- fans. Is it fair enough? The students take up

:52:43.:52:51.

90% of the place and have fun on one day of the year and yet the Northern

:52:52.:53:00.

Ireland and Republic of Ireland fans can be celebrated for doing the same

:53:01.:53:05.

sort of thing but then all the media outlets slate us. You talk about

:53:06.:53:10.

getting the students out but it is one of the closest places to Queens.

:53:11.:53:20.

There is housing all over all fast. South Belfast is much bigger, so

:53:21.:53:24.

spread them about. The concentration and then you bring drinking and big

:53:25.:53:28.

festivals and you have mayhem. It is not just one day of the year. People

:53:29.:53:33.

living there are putting up with ghastly noise from neighbours all

:53:34.:53:37.

the time. That was a good area, lovely area, it could be a lovely

:53:38.:53:41.

area again. I wish we had more time to talk about this but tonight I'm

:53:42.:53:48.

afraid we don't. You are a starstruck! I like the man.

:53:49.:53:54.

Right, I promised you the Boomtown Rats.

:53:55.:53:55.

Here they are with one of their biggest hits - Rat Trap.

:53:56.:54:27.

# There was a lot of rocking going on that night.

:54:28.:54:31.

# Cruising time for the young bright lights.

:54:32.:54:34.

# Just down past the gasworks, by the meat factory door.

:54:35.:54:37.

# The five lamp boys were coming on strong.

:54:38.:54:40.

# The Saturday night city beat had already started.

:54:41.:54:44.

# The pulse of the corner boys sprang into action.

:54:45.:54:47.

# And young Billy watched it all under the yellow street light.

:54:48.:54:50.

# And said, "Tonight of all nights there's gonna be a fight".

:54:51.:55:01.

# Billy don't like it living here in this town.

:55:02.:55:04.

# He says the traps have been sprung long before he was born.

:55:05.:55:07.

# He says hope bites the dust behind all the closed doors.

:55:08.:55:10.

# And pus and grime ooze from its scab crusted sores.

:55:11.:55:12.

# There's screaming and crying in the high rise blocks.

:55:13.:55:15.

# It's a rat trap, Billy, but you're already caught.

:55:16.:55:17.

# But you can make it if you want to or you need it bad enough.

:55:18.:55:21.

# You're young and good looking and you're acting kind of tough.

:55:22.:55:24.

# Anyway it's Saturday night, time to see what's going down.

:55:25.:55:27.

# Put on the bright suit, Billy, head for the right side of town.

:55:28.:55:30.

# It's only eight o'clock but you're already bored.

:55:31.:55:33.

# You don't know what it is but there's got to be more.

:55:34.:55:37.

# You'd better find a way out, hey, kick down that door.

:55:38.:55:40.

# It's a rat trap and you've been caught.

:55:41.:55:51.

# In this town Billy says everybody tries to tell you what to do.

:55:52.:55:54.

# In this town Billy says everybody says you gotta follow rules.

:55:55.:56:04.

# You walk up to those traffic lights.

:56:05.:56:06.

# You push in that button, and when that button comes alight.

:56:07.:56:10.

# Take a walk with me. take a walk, take a walk.

:56:11.:57:04.

# Little Judy's trying to watch Top Of The Pops.

:57:05.:57:07.

# But Mum and Dad are fighting, don't they ever stop?

:57:08.:57:10.

# She take down her coat and walks down to the street.

:57:11.:57:13.

# It's cold on that road, but it's got that home beat.

:57:14.:57:17.

# Deep down in her pocket, she finds 50p.

:57:18.:57:20.

# Now is that any way for a young girl to be?

:57:21.:57:23.

# "I'm gonna get out of school, work in some factory.

:57:24.:57:27.

# "Work all the hours God gave me, get myself a little easy money".

:57:28.:57:31.

# Her mind's made up, she walks down the road.

:57:32.:57:40.

# Her hands in her pockets, coat buttoned 'gainst the cold.

:57:41.:57:44.

# She finally finds Billy down at the Italian cafe.

:57:45.:57:47.

# When he's drunk it's hard to understand what Billy says.

:57:48.:57:50.

# But then he mumbles in his coffee and suddenly roars.

:57:51.:57:54.

# "It's a rat trap, Judy, and we've been caught!"

:57:55.:58:00.

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