Results Part 3 Northern Ireland Elections

Ireland and experts on hand to analyse the latest assembly results.

We can go to them to get up to speed. People have picked up on this

as one of the lines of the day, because it sums up the brutal nature

of politics. Danny Kennedy, not expected to lose his seat, but he

has gone. He feared he was going to lose it. That is why he was so quick

out of the traps to say that Mike Nesbitt should not have said what he

said about transferrin. It was clear that he had been given

transfers before, but I should say, I got something wrong earlier when I

said she had worked in his office. That was not so. I don't know how my

source got that wrong. But I got that wrong. Hopefully a minor point.

One of those things you pick up. Thanks to our viewers who have

joined us from the BBC News Channel, this is our continued coverage of

the Northern Ireland assembly elections. Thanks for being with us.

What have you made of what has been happening in the last couple of

hours? Keeping a very close eye on developments. How is the picture

filling out? I genuinely did not see the Lord Morrow elimination coming.

And if you considered the three Sinn Fein seats there now, that is really

quite a big statement. By the Sinn Fein party. Their gonna leaders of

unionism who were a bit shocked. Mike Nesbitt looked very weary of it

all. It looked like he was relieved to be resigning, and I think

possibly because of the Lord Morrow elimination and possibly because the

election was more brutal than even she thought it would be, Arlene

Foster looked a bit in shock when she was giving her accept and

speech. There wasn't a single mention of Sinn Fein anywhere in it

-- acceptance. She has declined to be interviewed by the BBC so far,

but we're hoping she will talk to us tomorrow. She has opted to go home

without giving a detailed interview to the BBC. Uncharacteristic. I do

find it strange. She gave an interview to the TV in Ireland. The

DUP are hurting tonight and they will regroup. If Mike Nesbitt had

not resigned we would be talking more about her position, but

politics is a rough trade. It is a dirty and rough business and we saw

today how rough it can get. The DUP were surprised by how rough it has

got. What about Mike Nesbitt's decision to go? I mentioned the

political editor 15 years ago, you work with Mike Nesbitt in this

building, as to die, over many years. Were you surprised that he

launched that pre-emptive strike and fell on his sword? -- as did I.

Earlier than maybe he had to, because people were surprised he did

it so quickly. The results are not good but not as bad as it might have

been. At this stage. There is a view that it is very bad, he did a bad

election the last time and here he is facing the DUP under pressure.

Arlene Foster is the goalkeeper and he has the penalty kick and he

misses the door. You think he had to go? Yes. When he realised himself he

was going to go, is Basic instinct were as a journalist and he wanted

to get to the punch line first bash his basic instinct.

But then maybe you could get all 18 counts finished and then make an

announcement tomorrow, or Sunday. But to do it when people are still

fighting for seats within his party, that seemed a little bit previous.

Yes, it looks like that, but I think the devastation that he probably was

feeling having made no headway against the DUP under such pressure,

and watching the Alliance party, it will not be making headway in terms

of seats, but they have the same number of seats as they had before

it all started. I think the nature of Mike, I've known him 30 years and

he just wanted to be rid of this. He will be staying on until they decide

what they want to do, and that is a huge moment for the Ulster Unionist

Party and I don't think they will take that decision quickly. I want

to talk to Peter Wear who is the former education minister.

Congratulations to you. You had a bit of a gamble. You did not think

you could hold onto your seat, but you moved to where you thought you

could win a seat and the gamble has paid off. Facing a fresh challenge,

moving from a different number of seats created problems for all

parties, but I'm delighted that the people here have placed their trust

in me and I hope to repay them. Everybody thought it was a tall

order for the DUP to have three outgoing ministers in the battle for

seats and to hold them, but you have done that, that's a very good result

for the DUP in Strangford. You have got one and so have the Alliance

party and the Ulster Unionist Party. You are pleased with our

performance. How did you do overall? Sometimes, this is the group of

death, you might refer to it, like in the football World Cup. It was a

mixed picture, we succeeded in some areas but we are disappointed to

lose some great colleagues. And I commiserate with anyone who has lost

a seat, it is very tough. Politics can be very brutal, but there is

great talent which has been lost to the assembly through the election.

That is quite sad. I want to talk about Mike Nesbitt and his decision

to resign. Mike has got to make his own

decision, think about what happens in the internal mechanism. I wish

him well for the future. I wish him well but I don't know what he sees

as his future. Maybe this is an opportunity for unionism to come

together. We have seen a brutal and action, and one of the

disappointments many Unionists will see is that we did not maximise our

seats. That is something that we do need to tackle. And also see how

best we can move things forward in Northern Ireland. Do you feel Mike

Nesbitt's pain this evening? He has been leader five years and he made

the claims in this election but he didn't deliver on them and he has

now fallen on his sword. There is a personal price in these

circumstances. To be fair, we can look at politicians and I know

sometimes people can castigate them, but there is a personal life behind

that. Family life. It can take a toll on families. I've great

personal sympathy for Mike and in whatever avenue he pursues,

remaining as a Strangford LMA, I wishing well, and there have been

disagreements, areas where myself and colleagues have not agreed with

Mike Nesbitt, but it has not been personal. And therefore I wishing

well. Congratulations to you. We can go to West Tyrone and talk to Daniel

McCrossan. He has held his seat. Congratulations, are you relieved?

I'm happy and relieved and looking forward to a rest for a few days

before I go back to the assembly on Monday. What about the tussle for

the fourth set, the fifth seat. How did it pad out? -- pan. You manage

to get home, was it a tight fight? We always had a seat in West Tyrone

and I'm very happy to retain it. This is my third election in three

years and we have most to increase the mandate of the party here.

People came out in force and they offered their support to me, to

represent them going forward. Are you confident, briefly, that the

assembly will get up and running again sooner rather than later? DUP

at one end of the spectrum and Sinn Fein at the other, they seem to have

boxed themselves into corners and it is not entirely straightforward to

see Stormont reconvening in the way that we might expect it to do. I

live in hope. If they can get together before the election, there

was no call for the election, but we are faced with it and the same

result. My fear and the fit of the public, is direct rule. -- the fear

of the public. I hope that Sinn Fein and the DUP don't want that to

happen and I hope that they put their differences aside and put the

interests of the people on the ground first in terms of health and

education. And put aside the them and us, because this is about

everybody in Northern Ireland and people are very angry and this

election shows it. There has been a big increase in the nationalist

turnout. Thanks for joining us. Congratulations again. We are going

to go back to the panel and a moment, but first we are going to go

to the Titanic exhibition centre in Belfast where the four Belfast

counts have been taking place. Thank you. I'm joined by Paul Bradshaw,

successfully elected. -- Paula. You must be pleased. To have retained

their seats across the board. It is a nice team, people from different

backgrounds with different strengths, different constituencies,

and it would be nice to get back at Stormont and do what we have to do

to get the place up and running again. Do you think that this

possible? I think that is why they need the smaller parties, to be in

those talks, because it is so divided and I think the middle

ground, the progressives, who are coming through, they need to get a

voice in there, to make sure that we have a strong mandate. A lot of

constituents have put their faith in us to negotiate on there but half to

get devolution back up and running -- on their behalf. It depends...

The Ulster Unionist Party lost ground, and we have picked up from

other parties, as well. 2000 votes ahead. They had to come from

somewhere. Some from Unionists but also from the DUP. What about Mike

Nesbitt, surprised he resign? No, I wasn't. We have seen so many

casualties and a big names like Danny Kennedy. His position was

untenable and he gambled so much. It was very ambitious, what he said,

but he did not have the party with him. It is very much unfortunate

that his political career in terms of leadership has ended. I don't

know who is going to fill the void. On a personal level, what about the

other casualties? People like Joanne Dobson. You work closely with her.

Surprised she lost her sick? Very surprised. -- she lost her seat. We

worked on the health committee and we did joint campaigning over things

like cancer drugs, and that will be a big loss to them. Robbie on the

health committee, as well. There will be big shoes to fill and this

is a sad day for them. Thank you very much. We can now go to North

Antrim, Ballymena, and hear from our correspondent. The result is

completed. Both counts are over in Ballymena in the leisure centre. Mid

Auster, looking at both constituencies, if you are looking

for any unfamiliar faces you will not find them, but there are

unfamiliar faces who have gone. Three Sinn Fein leaders have

retained their sick, as did the one DUP member. -- their seat. One SDLP

member has claimed a suit. North Antrim, -- has claimed a seat. They

are left with Robin is one of the Ulster Unionist Party and Mervyn

Storey of the DUP. Stuart McGregor has retained the

seat he was co-opted into after the resignation. So many unfamiliar

faces and familiar faces gone from Ballymena.

We can now hear more about the numbers, crunching them on our

behalf, our political editor Mark Davenport. We have to consider two

constituencies, not just any constituencies, constituencies which

we think might turn out to be crucial in terms of the end game.

They are numbers we have had in the back of our mind. One number was the

number 30 because that is what any party needs to wield a petition of

concern, the veto mechanism on its own. We think potentially South

Belfast and Langer Valley could play a role in that. We can have a look

at that. South Belfast first of all. Three MLAs elected here. Let's have

a look. He is clearly there. The other two came in for the two DUP

and a green close behind. This is the battle for the numbers for the

DUP. There are less than two unionist quotas but there are also

floating votes. It seemed at the beginning quite probable that Clare

Bayley would pick up enough transfers from the others to

overtake one of the others, but we are not sure which at this stage. We

are leaping through a few stages. Clare Bayley has left above

Christopher Stortford. The question is where some of the transfers might

go and whether they will deliver their Bayley home and whether the

DUP will be able to get their couple of seats which they had previously.

Paula Rachel and Claire Hammond have been elected -- Paula Bradshaw. That

will leave 2000 surplus Foakes which I think will go to Clare Bayley

rather than the DUP -- votes. Will the transfer be enough for the DUP

candidate. That's one way they could get to 30.

If they got those two and every thing else was even. There is

another place where the DUP is under threat. These three candidates. This

was how they stacked up. Previously the DUP had three seats here, so if

they retained those three seats and the two seats, they get to the 30

mark. There you can see the SDLP are some way behind. They haven't had a

sit there in recent times. If we zoom forward to stage seven it is

proven that Pat Catney is proving quite transfer friendly. Yes. You

can see that Pat Catney got more transfers ban on the DUP candidates

did. The decisive phase will be the transfer of that 3500 surplus from

Butler. It could be that enough of them go to Pat Catney, not enough go

to Brenda Hale, to give the SDLP a surprise victory. We think these

constituencies could be crucial in determining the overall balance. If

the DUP lost out in both places they could be down 28 seats, which would

be about -- better heat. Under the current rules Sinn Fein would still

be entitled to nominate the First Minister? Behind me we have

potentially some late drama in Lisbon. We've only been waiting ten

hours for an upset and the SDLP are claiming that one potentially is on

the cards. As you were saying, Pat Catney and Brenda Hale look like

they will flood it out for the fifth and final seat. Currently Pat Catney

of the SDLP is 130 votes ahead. They are now in the process of

transferring surplus votes from Robbie Butler, the only elected

Ulster unionist. The SDLP says that Pat Catney ease transfer friendly to

the Olveston in the nest on the basis of what happened previously.

They are growing in confidence and saying lots of pacing back and

forwards between Brenda Hale is, and Pat Catney. Both to-ing and fro-ing.

It has been a while since I spoke to the DUP about this. They were

confident at the start of play that they would have three returned. That

confidence has waned in the course of the day but pick up a little with

the elimination of Jenny Palmer of the Ulster unionists. But coming up

is Pat Catney. We are told that they intend to finish this this evening.

It could be another hour or so, who knows, but this is some late drama

tonight at Lisburn. That is a fascinating situation

developing for the final seat. It will be interesting to see if Pat

Catney takes that seat and if it does, that is putting emotion

arguably what Mike Nesbitt said, that Ulster unionists should think

seriously about transferring to the SDLP. In the meantime Mike Nesbitt

has resigned. I will pick that up in a moment with a panel. First, your

catchphrase is always keep are lit. So you did? -- keep her lit. Yes,

but it seems in this election keep her lit didn't seem entirely

appropriate. In the first count we had a great day. Sinn Fein has had a

great day at the leisure centre because out of the ten we emerged

with six of the ten, three in each constituency. If I could just thank

people who voted for us. It is very humbling to be in people's houses,

to be sitting in their kitchen. We've had custard and fresh cream!

Sometimes we've had the old bake together at the canteen. I know you

like your apple pie and custard, so that doesn't surprise me! I swear to

god I had the happiest election experience, bowing to the people up

and down around Tyrone. I think it is the warmest election we ever got.

In West Tyrone we got the highest ever vote. We got a cumulative total

of 21,000. Previous to that a high watermark would have been around

19,000. So we had such success. So much for the folksy stuff, all

politics is local. But what about the serious business of the

politics? What does the mandate for Barry Michael Gough and for your

party, what does that give you a mandate to do over the next few

weeks and months? There will be talks and Sinn Fein is arriving at

those talks with an enhanced mandate. What is their agenda? Our

gender is a quality and respect. I would like to see both governments

involved, the Irish government and British government, because they are

co- guarantors of the Good Friday agreement, which is very much

relevant and needs to be implementing full, not least the

bill of Rights, all of things need to be implemented. And I think my

message to the DUP, who will be at the table as well, is that we are

equal and toe-to-toe. The nationalists and republicans, even

with a progressive agenda, have given us a mandate to say to the

DUP, we are not less than equal, we are your equal, and that message

needs to get home. You've got that mandate and nobody questions that.

You also accept that people who voted for the DUP give Arlene Foster

and her team coming back a very strong mandate as well? I do. I do

accept that and I do respect that very much. But in recent weeks we've

heard conciliatory tone and words from the likes of Ian Paisley Jr. I

think the DUP need to reflect on their tone and language and their

attitude to equality and respect. The society can only go forward on a

platform of equality and respect. There are serious allegations of

financial impropriety and they need to be dealt with absolutely. There

will be a public enquiry which will be reported on later this year. That

will happen. Absolutely. Credit to taking the lead and making that

happen. Let's bring the two governments in as well. The British

Prime Minister should be directly involved in the talks up ahead,

because they are co- guarantors of the Good Friday peace agreement and

until that is implemented in full, the rights agenda they are contained

in as well. Thanks very much and we hope we will see you again before

too long. Look forward to it. Right, let's

talk about that. Quick word about where we are in terms of Sinn Fein's

mandate. What will Sinn Fein do with a mandate? Who knows? I wonder if

they know. The question for them was if they bought people out what would

the people say? Were people going to blame them. And in bed too long and

propping up the DUP, or were they going to row at them? What do they

really want? Do they want Stormont back, even supposedly improved in

some way, or do they want to go into lengthy negotiations with possibly a

different outcome? I wonder how much stomach there is for devolution in

the wider national scheme? I wonder how much appetite there is for

Stormont among Sinn Fein's wider supporters? Do you think republicans

more generally would prefer direct rule? They would prefer it in a

positive way, but it had become so sickening to a lot of people and

they had been turned off so much by the law and progressive picture of

Sinn Fein rolling over in Stormont, which is what a lot of people,

including their own supporters, were beginning to say. I think there was

a bit of that. I also think Sinn Fein could tolerate a longer period

of Stormont being down and out than the DUP could, both because this is

in their favour, whether they see it like that or not I don't know. On

the grounds that they didn't invest as much personally in each case as

the DUP members and they also have their project which is going at the

moment quite well for them, their votes going up. The polls are

looking better. How much of a stomach they have the negotiation I

don't know. How much skill they have for negotiation I don't know.

Because they certainly didn't distinguish themselves all that well

at many points over the last couple of years. A quick word from other

members of the panel. Good news for him and his party leader, they keep

their seats. What about the Pat Catney situation? There is the

possibility that the best DUP will sneak a seat because of the union

transfers. You could say it goes back to what Mike Nesbitt said, that

of stee in voters should think of transferring to be SDLP. It seems

they may have followed his advice? Yes, and Jenny Palmer's supporters

have every reason to want to see the DUP suffer at the hands, given what

Jenny Palmer suffered. But there is that issue that Mike Nesbitt jumped

out, arguably too soon. You think so? I really do. I think both as a

matter of common courtesy, and he is a courteous man, and as a matter of

judgement, it was not the day to do it. There were those bad scenes of

you asking and pushing, properly, of asking these flummoxed guys as to

whether they were ready to pick up the mantle and they barely knew that

the mantle had been cast. That's no way to leave the party. But there

was a sense that it wasn't just the election results that through Mike

Nesbitt. I think a lot of us watching the leader's debate were

struck by how nervous he seemed, how shaky his voice was. You know as a

presenter, and I do, that if you are in front of a microphone your voice

gives you away quite quickly. You're tyred and switched off, whatever.

His voice was shaking in that debate. I think he was already

shaken, whether because he got such bad feedback from within the party

and cause he was nervous about the result, it was as if he had semi-

decided before the result that he did it too soon. Let's just hear

about an Ofsted success. Our correspondent is down at the Titanic

Exhibition Centre. We have a bit of a ray of sunshine? I have. First of

all, the final declaration is about to be made in north Belfast and

that's going to be Exhibition -- two DUP seats, two Sinn Fein

seats. We are just waiting for the announcement in a couple of minutes.

As you say, good news in east Belfast for the DUP. What we have

left are three DUP candidates. We expect Bunting to be returned. It is

a tossup between Robert Newton and David Douglas. The DUP themselves

not calling which of those two will be eliminated at this point. But

after that point I got reaction. We are delighted. We have increased our

vote significantly. We've been working hard since we returned in

May. I hope we can get back and get the institutions back. I am

committed and that's why I came into politics, to work for ordinary

people and deliver for them, whether that be health, infrastructure,

education. We will always do right for Northern Ireland. Are you

confident you will be able to return to the assembly and make those

changes? It will be a long road ahead of us. Let's not take anything

for granted. We will go into the negotiations and see what happens.

INAUDIBLE. I am delighted we've increased our vote and I look

forward to continued to work with the other partners in all four

constituents. I've lost good friends, people who I built up

relationships with since 2015. I am gutted for Cassandra and Danny. A

message? I commend the party under Mike Nesbitt's leadership. He has

guided me and he has been strong for me. He has been there and I wish him

well. I consider him a colleague and friend. Do you fancy throwing your

hat in the ring for the leadership? No. It seems clear that a DUP seat

will go in. Your reflections on that? It is disappointing that

naturally there will be seats lost right across Northern Ireland.

That's disappointing. I spoke in the chamber on the production numbers

and although we have to remember that good MLAs have lost seats

across all parties. The people of Northern Ireland have been affected

and I estimate the cost at ?5 million. An impact on key frontline

services. We have to remember that. People were asked to come out to the

polls again and they were deeply frustrated and angry. They wanted to

get this thing working to get it delivered for the people.

Thank you. Yes, Mark, as I said, during the interview, the official

results were made for north Belfast, they joining Paul Bradley from the

DUP and William Humphrey. North Belfast is complete, we have had the

west Belfast count, we expect the east to be completed, and then

in the next, I don't know the next in the next, I don't know the next

couple of hours. The next couple of hours would be good, I am sure they

would be happy with that, thank you. I wanted to pick up on those points.

We have covered an awful lot of ground. A couple of things he wanted

to pick up on. Two things and I am not sure the body politic in the

north has understood this yet. First, Brexit has changed forever.

The vote on Brexit, and the fact that a majority of people in the

north, in this part of the island, want to remain. In the European

Union, with all of its faults. And for the benefit of everyone, for

viewers across the UK, who will be thinking, yes, the majority voted to

remain in Northern Ireland, but of course it was UK wide and the

majority across the UK decided I narrow margin to leave, and that has

consequences for Northern Ireland. For people throughout England,

Scotland and Wales, and the Scots and Welsh get it, they need to

understand this is an island and the partition of the island economically

and a European border on this island has had a huge impact on the

selection, a huge impact. I live in a border community. I was working in

the north. My husband was working in the south. One daughter is in

college in Dublin and another is in college in Belfast. That is the

first contact. I don't think we can overstate the impact of Brexit on

this election. And the fear that people have right across border

communities, from the Catholic- Protestant and ethnic...

CROSSTALK Has it brought out the vote for Sinn

Fein, not just a reaction to the DUP, it was Brexit? Brexit is

underlying it. The other thing I saw was the ethnic minority communities

coming out and they were coming out and many were voting for Sinn Fein.

But the second context, and people will be reflecting tonight, and we

talked a little bit about it earlier, there is now 1100 votes,

roughly, between Sinn Fein and the DUP. We may have 20, I don't want to

speculate on seats, it is looking at 28, whatever... You will be within

one or two of each other. The north has changed forever. I know that we

have heard the words to the point ad nauseam, respect, quality and

integrity. There needs to be a psychological shift in relation to

respect for what was the minority in the past.

CROSSTALK Just hear me out. There has not been

respect for me as an Irish leader, for my grandchild as an Irish

speaker. As a six-year-old, he was up in Stormont protesting. I would

have preferred if he wasn't. If he didn't need to do it. He was

shouting up in Stormont with six -year-olds, red with anger. He said

to me, why is Stormont cutting the money to my school? I don't think

people get the message of what you're doing to the next generation

when decisions like that I made. I don't want my grandson doing that.

What needs to happen in society is a psychological shift. Listen, we

don't have a DUP representative, we don't have a unionist in the studio

but if we had someone from the DUP, I suspect... We don't have an active

Unionist politician. Let me make this point. If there was someone

from the DUP they would say that you are selective in what you talk about

when you discuss the quality and they might think, and Jeffrey

Donaldson made the point earlier today, there are examples he could

throw at you where you respect things that don't matter to

Unionists. In terms of equality, there is legislative framework and

there are nine grounds on which you cannot discriminate, and Sinn Fein

is clear that you cannot discriminate on political opinion or

religious belief, but you also can't, and the DUP has signed up to

this, on sexual orientation. But my final point on this... Very quickly.

My final point is this is not just about going back to Stormont, this

is about the assembly, north- south, rakish -- British - Irish. You are a

Unionist but you're not a serving Unionist politician, which is what I

think I was getting too. I want to break off before that and bring in

our reporter. Confirmation of success and here is the man of the

moment. Good evening. It is a double celebration. Not only is he

re-elected, it is his 39th birthday. Birthday cake tonight? It won't be

my birthday by the time I get out of here, unfortunately, but double

cause for celebration, delighted to be re-elected by the people of Foyle

and determined to return it to them in terms of the work I do on the

issues which matter to them. You predicted that you would win two

seats and you have retained them but is there a disappointment for the

on first preferences by Sinn Fein, on first preferences by Sinn Fein,

that is a worry for the SDLP? There it is a wee bit of disappointment,

however we have to look at the result, we have increased 3000

votes, and we have managed the vote extremely well, got both candidates,

and that is something to be cheerful about. Sinn Fein have increased

their vote by even more. We have to look at how they did that. We have

to learn from how they did that and we have to see it how we are going

to increase hours in the next election. Your uncle, Mark Durkan,

will he be worried about the Sinn Fein performance, it has been

impressive, and he has a 6000 majority, but he is bound to be

worried towards the next Westminster action? I don't think he will be

particularly worried, I mean, Sinn Fein has been tremendously

impressive, and well done to them for that. We will focus on our

performance and I think we can improve further. We are 35% of the

electorate -- we have 35% of the electorate who didn't come out to

vote and we have to get them to vote SDLP. We are the strongest party

against Brexit. We have been the strongest party on the day to day

issues but sadly the election has become about more than the

day-to-day issues. I think it is important that we look at how to

move this place forward. We will be coming back with a strong team to

Stormont and we determined to play our part in making Stormont for the

people here in terms of delivering better healthcare, stronger welfare,

better education system, these are the issues which really matter to

people and these are the issues which matter to us. Do you think it

can all be put together again on Monday morning when the dust

settles, or have they been too many insults traded amongst the parties,

with the political ramifications tonight with Mike Nesbitt going, can

it be put back together? I sincerely hope that it can. I think the people

want it to happen. The people need that to happen for all of the

reasons I have outlined already. The SDLP will be determined to play a

part in making that happen. Let's just hope that it does. Ultimately

it will come down to the bigger parties. I will let you go and enjoy

your birthday cake. Happy birthday. It is back to you. Thank you. Let's

hear from members of the panel. John, for the benefit of people who

don't know your background, you were a member of the Ulster Unionist

Party, then the deputy leader of NI21, you were an independent, you

lost your seat in May, so you are not an active unionist politician,

but you are steeped in unionist politics, how can you respond to the

talk about the equality agenda and the respect agenda? On a couple of

points, the one thing I would disagree with is that this election

was about Brexit. It wasn't on my sense of it, it was the old issues

of what have bedevilled with us, dealing with the past, Irish

language. People are concerned about Brexit. It wouldn't explain why the

SDLP was under pressure given they are very strong against Brexit and

campaigned on that. I think this was an election about getting into the

sectarian trenches almost... What about the other issues mentioned,

LGBT writes, the Irish language? You mentioned my involvement in NI21. --

rights. When we had the conference I started my lines in Irish, very

badly, bad pronunciation, and the fact that, bizarrely, one of the

guys who does translation for Irish in the assembly is a Portadown

Orangemen. Unionism as a collective almost tens to say this belongs to

something else instead of recognising we need to keep

ownership. Here is the reality, there are a lot of unionistplumac-

Protestants who have no problem with the Irish language...

CROSSTALK It has to be said that there are

unionists who have a problem with the Irish language. And you see the

thing about putting legislation through the assembly, especially

when the DUP have 38 members, anything that they wanted to strike

out other legislation that they thought was going to cost too much,

instead of getting in and doing it, I mean, I accept things around the

respect agenda, and comments made earlier today which Naomi talked

about, about one of the biggest recruiters for Sinn Fein, Ireland

has mobilised a vote for Sinn Fein, yes, a significant vote for the DUP,

but she has mobilised a vote for Sinn Fein, particularly in Kent

Stephenson -- consistencies to the west, that is a tremendous result.

Can I just bring Stephen in, you are in a unique position to give insight

into how this might work, because for the last decade he worked as the

head of Kim indications for the executive, so you have been in their

working alongside successive DUP and Sinn Fein leaders and trying to help

them put forward their partnership agenda. Now, we are where we are, we

have had an election, we don't know quite what happens next. Both of

those parties go back with renewed mandate. The difficulty seems to be

that they seem to think that their mandates are mutually Lousi of, so

how can we move on from here? The difficulty has always been that

while they could agree on a high level on the sort of things you

would expect them to agree on in terms of, we need to pay attention

to infrastructure, the health service, education and schools, once

you get down into the detail, it all tended to fall apart -- mutually

exclusive. And the problem in the politics of all of this is that when

the pressure comes on, as it did in the last few weeks running up around

Christmas and into the New Year, those parties tend to withdraw into

themselves, don't talk to officials particularly, if you are not part of

the Sinn Fein and the DUP cognoscenti, you are not part of the

argument, and that sense of ourselves alone on both their parts

doesn't help, because there is little light getting into this

situation, so if you look at the takeaways for the DUP, well, you

know, we are still there. We are the biggest unionist party, the biggest

party still up for grabs a little bit, but somewhere along the line,

you know, there has to be a sense of, well, let's just back this down

a little bit. One other thing is, believe it or not, Peter Robinson

was good at, was being incredibly magmatic when he had to be and there

was a degree of pragmatism required...

CROSSTALK The first to deliver pragmatism? She

will have to be she is going to continue to be the leader. A quick

word? It follows this point, that is why you need to move, and I give

Katrina this, if you have respect you move to a genuine power-sharing,

we have too many ministers acting as king in their own five -- fiefdoms

and that is not good. I need to break in it as we have interesting

details, Lisbon, we were talking about the battle for the final seat,

we thought Pat Cagney was out of the mix, now we hear that he is back in

again, can you confirm those five seats are being declared? Pat Catney

will take the fifth and final seat in Lagan Valley. I am still awaiting

on the official figure but I am told he beat the DUP's render hail --

render hail. He will be thankful for all of the star -- of the -- Ulster

you transfers. Earlier the DUP were confident of holding all of their

seats and at the end of the night they are down to two. The DUP are

represented by Paul given and Edwin Poots. The fifth and final seat,

about to be declared, Pat Catney. That is a fascinating development.

Thanks very much. Just to clarify, that has happened. It happened

because of Ulster Union is transfers. Pat Catney has now won

the fifth seat. It is a sweet one for the SDLP. For a long while it

was very lonely in Lisburn. I hope Jenny Palmer doesn't get bad

treatment of the ground after this from disgruntled DUP supporters, who

will say they took Sarah to man across the line. Lisburn is one of

the most bitter places behind a semi- civilised facade that I can

think of. Jenny Palmer has no control of the

voters. You know how such things pan out. We

are just looking at pictures of the formal declaration. There is the

deputy returning officer. Actually,... Buries Pat Catney as

well on the left. Another little ironic thing is that Pat Catney was

brought into the party by Ulster McDonald. His period as leader was

pretty unhappy and ended on a pretty sad note. It must be ironic for him,

watching this. And Pat Catney is a bit off a character. He owns the

kitchen bar in Belfast. This could be a significant impact on the DUP

Sinn Fein balance. It isn't clear who is coming out. This picture

might not become clear tonight, but it will become clear tomorrow

morning and that the fascinating thing. Which is really nailbiting

four Arlene Foster. And could that be a defining issue for Arlene

Foster? Mike Nesbitt's resignation has taken the heat off tonight. But

the pressure could be on her again? Enormously. What a parting gift from

Mike Nesbitt if Pat Catney gets the seat, the last seat. All bets are

off. We get to that position. A fascinating situation. Let's just

hear from Mark Devonport who has some more numbers for us. It is very

interesting and also especially interesting for those of us who have

misspent some of our youth in the kitchen. I owe Pat Catney for quite

a lot of plates of mash and needs. We will have to be dealing with it

in completely different circumstances. Our current thinking

at the moment is that this is quite significant because it deprives DUP

of the commission concerned, but we were speaking south Belfast might be

the one. Lagan Valley has now nipped in and done that. Absolutely. We are

now looking for the DUP finishing on 28 seats, roughly the same as Sinn

Fein, although there 28th is not quite certain yet. It is possible

Sinn Fein might not get as many as the DUP. One of the whole issues

that led to Mike Nesbitt stepping down were those controversial

comments he made, that he would give his number, as many of his

candidates disagree. Let's look at some of his constituencies, where

the whole business of the opposition parties transferring between each

other did make a big difference. Here we have the situation where

Rosemary started in sixth place and not a brilliant sixth place when

there were only five seats to be elected. We have to watch Ritchie

McPhillips. Rosemary said she didn't agree with the leader on this and

she felt her supporters should transfer in a prounion way, but look

what happens. If we raced through, Arlene Foster gets elected. Ritchie

McPhillips at this point is down at the bottom. Where do his votes go?

Rosemary Barton is still out of the running at this point. Then at the

next stage Rosemary Barton says thank you for 1004 to -- 1471

transfers. It might seem extraordinary but let's not forget

that Ritchie McPhillips took his seat last year because he got over

90 transfers from the Ulster unionist. That allows him to

leapfrog Morris and Rosemary Barton is elected and Sean Lynch comes

through for Sinn Fein. We are looking at someone else where they

might also play a role. East Londonderry. Here we have a good

performance by Archibald. Clare Sugden doing well. I think we did

say Jerry was standing at an independent. As ever you can never

predict the fortunes of the single transferable voting system. We have

Clare Sugden elected. And John is begin to pick up transfers. What's

happened since then is the campus of votes have been redistributed. We

are now seeing that the votes from Clare Sugden are heading... They

came from the Ulster unionists but may head by a Clare Sugden with

John. And Sinn Fein has it in his sights. Yes. Clare Sugden now has a

surplus of 600 votes. There is a gap of 81 between John and Catriona. I

would have thought enough of those would drift towards the SDLP and

keep them on level pegging after the election, in a situation where we

have lost six of the assembly seats. The SDLP have done very well in

transferring their votes to seats. They fell slightly in the share of

the votes but think of the retaining their seats. On that note let's go

over to the Titanic Centre.. Thank you. Joining me here are two

guests. You must be delighted? Not only delighted, not only have our

present it is gone up but if you compared it to last May there is a

difference of 3000 additional votes. -- percentages gone up. That's a

substantial. One of the main reasons for that is especially a around

attitude. That was felt quite a lot on the doors. And also this desire

to get the institutions working and to physically give us all a mandate

to get in and get things sorted. The DUP have done well as well? But I am

not standing for the DUP, I'm standing for Sinn Fein and we are

saying that our party leader has said that if we win we win for all.

That's the attitude I've had and that's the attitude we will go into

the institutions with. But it has been a good election for Sinn Fein.

That's the position. Some of the numbercrunching that Nicholas and

Mark were doing, do you think is a possibility you will end up with the

same of seats as the DUP? I'm not sure, actually. We were looking at

some of the figures on the screen and we are getting some late results

coming in from East Londonderry, so I don't know. But we have had a

really good election and the DUP have had a good election for in the

middle of an election. Some of the predictions, possibly not from them,

but certainly from pundits and that, have put them at a higher level. But

the fact is that we have shown very positive, progressive leadership,

energetic leadership, console at a -- consolidating leadership and that

something the DUP have to bring back to these institutions. Lots to talk

about. Let's condense it and talk about the DUP's election and the 30

feet you for the partition of concern is looking guaranteed. I

think the DUP would have been looking to get over 30 and they were

always going to lose certain seats. They accept that that in certain

places by only running two candidates, when previously they ran

three. If we step out from the party politics and look at it in broader

terms it's a very good election for that centre block of alliance with

the Greens and non- aligning parties. It is an outstanding

election for nationalism. A complete reversal of the result the

Nationalists had ten months ago when Sinn Fein was the biggest loser in

terms of the percentage share of the vote. That's reversed this time and

it is nothing short of a disaster for unionism. Every unionist party

is looking... Mike Nesbitt has quickly accepted what would have

been the ultimate outcome of that result for him and Arlene Foster

certainly doesn't give any indication that she is planning to

follow that at this stage, that I think there will be a lot of

pressure on her because to be just one or two seats, if that's where we

end up, I head of Sinn Fein, having been ten seats ahead, that's a very

bad result for the DUP. When it comes to Mike Nesbitt, do you think

he was premature and he should have resigned? I think it pre-empted what

was an inevitable decision. By the party and by him. I think it was a

clever thing to do in terms of not only not leaving the issue to fester

within the party, which it would have done. People were already

unhappy at his comments. That was always going to come to a head if

they didn't make significant gains, let alone losses, but I think it

also puts a focus really back on Arlene Foster. Mike Nesbitt has now

gone. The DUP result isn't as bad in many ways, after a bad result. They

are still the largest party and a much bigger player. But it is very

bad when you look at it across. Losing the chief whip, the party

chairman and very significant figures will stop that's not a good

election result. What about RHI, was that factor? It is difficult to

tell. I think clearly that has reinvigorated nationalism. People in

the SDLP say not only that but also Arlene Foster's crocodile remark,

from that point there was a hardening of attitude where people

who might have voted SDLP said, though, we want to send a message to

her. So there were a mixture of factors. I think Arlene Foster's

tactic of constantly drawing up the spectre of Sinn Fein being the

biggest party possibly brought our voters that wanted to stop that. But

I think we also see the opposite effect of that. Nationalism really

drove Nationalists towards Sinn Fein to fulfil what Arlene Foster said

might happen, if indeed they voted in that way. A final word from you.

Did the DUP make it easy for you? Did you make gains with some of the

comments they made around the crocodile narrative? I think

initially it did. But I think some of the offensiveness from Arlene

Foster has prompted people to come out across the board. I think she

does need to reflect on what she has done as a leader. I think Mike

Nesbitt jumped before he was pushed. But I think it was a collaborative

decision. I think Arlene Foster needs to reflect on her own position

and I am sure she will do that in the coming days. Thanks very much.

We are going to have a good chat with members of my panel in a moment

but before that, let's look at the overall state of the parties and

bits and bobs to look at with Mark Simpson.

It is shaping up to be the closest assembly election in history. More

than 80 of 90 seats have been filled, including quite a few in the

last couple of minutes. I don't even know what will pop up but we will

give it a go. What I know for sure is the biggest party is still Sinn

Fein with 26, only two fewer than the party got last time even though

it is a small assembly. How close are the DUP? How many seats have a?

25. Only one seat behind. It is a long way from the 38 they got last

time and it is also short of the magic 30 mark but the DUP are

creeping up on Sinn Fein. Who is in third place at the moment? It is on

the nationalist side, the SDLP, with 11 seats. I suppose, no big deal in

terms of gains for the SDLP, but Colin Eastwood will be relatively

happy with that. Who is next, all is the unionist Mike Nesbitt, not

happy, hasn't made any real inroads into the DUP. Look at the number of

seats, ten. If you want to know why Mike Nesbitt has quit, there is the

reason. No big gains for the Alliance party, they have held on

with eight seats, and they will be delighted under their leader, Naomi

Long. Let's have a look at the scores on the doors to see how the

smaller parties and independents have done, here they are, you can

see Jim Allister, the leader of the TUV, back at the back of the chamber

making plenty of noise, and all eyes will be here on the front of the

chamber. There is a big battle going on between the DUP and Sinn Fein,

only one seat in it at the moment, to see who is going to win the most

seats, it could even be a 28- 28 draw, all we know, Mark, it is going

to be a close finish. Looks like it indeed, thank you,

Mark. Fascinating situation. I am coming to you first, Stephen,

because you are an expert on the numbers, and just to pick up on what

Sam McBride, political editor said, he described it as, I think I heard

it correctly, a disaster for unionism, is what he said, it is not

a good election for Mike Nesbitt and he is gone, but it is not good

either for the DUP. They may end up one or two seats ahead but they have

lost the Chief Whip and the party chairman, they have lost significant

figures like Nelson McAusland, Philip Logan. How much pressure is

Arlene Foster likely to come under in the next 24 to 48 hours? I am not

sure it will be the next 24 to 48 hours but pressure will be there at

eventually. This has been a bad election. Matt McKay she started out

the day as leader, 57,000 votes at the last election head of Sinn Fein.

She may hold on to the First Minister by the 1200 votes ahead of

Sinn Fein if it is a 28- 28 tie. That will send shockwaves through

unionism. It absolutely is. And it will be, owning, people have been

saying this, but given where she was when she took over, and the

honeymoon period with the media, she seemed in vulnerable, and look at

what has happened just a few months down the line. Quick word, John?

Looking at the numbers, it looks like in people designating unionists

and nationals, it will almost be a dead heat, you know, and then the

big parties, people talked before the election if the DUP went below

30, Arlene would be under real pressure, it is looking very

unlikely. If it ends up as a dead heat, 28 apiece, let's speculate,

the DUP would still be able to appoint the First Minister rather

than the deputy First Minister because there is a margin of 1200

between the DUP and Sinn Fein. That is right, isn't it? Yes. It would be

enough to claim the First Minister's position, though, of course, as we

know, they are equal positions. That is why I want to name them. Which

was part of your move. Which is the point I was making earlier. I think

people should not be getting hung up on first and Deputy First Minister.

Well, the unionists R. Well, there are a lot who don't -- are. This is

what I am saying. We need a psychological shift now. It is

50-50. Our society in the north is moving and changing and shifting.

And also, earlier, John, we were debating Brexit, I am not saying

Brexit was... What I am saying is it was one of the key issues and one of

the reasons people came out to vote. So many people on the door said to

me we don't want to be left here on our own in this little, in the six

counties. I don't want to go back to that, because I want to try to look

ahead. The reason they support us is not growth in the north but also in

the south. Your thoughts as we enter the last minutes? I think for both

political communities, it is time for a rethink. I hear what Sinn Fein

say about equality and respect and it does resonate very widely in the

Catholic community. And in what used to be a minority which is definitely

no longer a minority. But they have to carry it a little further than

that. They have to watch it on their language always. They need to go

easy on things like commemorating, as Michelle did, which of course she

had to do, as the first clean skin leader, but they have to watch it

because it doesn't look like respect, and for unionism it is a

bigger question, they lost the majority in any real sense, that is

a big psychological blow right through unionism, and it really

ought to call for a rethink not just from Arlene Foster, it has been

personalised around her, but she isn't a single voice inside the DUP,

she speaks, she spoke for DUP, in her arrogance, that has to be

harbouring today. I think viewers on BBC Northern Ireland will be Dell --

will be with us. We think that some results are about to come in. They

could shake things. It would be otherwise to head to bed when some

of the critical announcements might be just about to be made Stephen,

Katrina made the point unionists shouldn't get hung up about some

other things they get hung up on. You know these people well. You work

with them. You have worked with lots of people and you made the point, I

don't know if people caught it, you set people are hung up on it and it

matters to them. It does matter. It was part of the DUP narrative for

the election, front and centre. Just as a side issue for some but an

important issue for others. If the DUP get to save 28, I think that

their views on same-sex marriage, it will not be as easily come by and I

think it would be an amazing and there will be a enormous pressure to

making us like the rest of the UK in relation to that. What you think the

executive McAllister, if it is running up again, might look like,

presumably the DUP and Sinn Fein, but might it include the Alliance

party? Do you assume the Also unionists would be in some sort of

position? I think the alliance will qualify for the seventh ministry.

And whether there is pressure from Sinn Fein to bring justice into it.

I don't know. I think Alliance, if... They will stick with their

demands on as Naomi said earlier, the things they wanted to look at,

that might somehow have naturally... That people might have answered how

to change the petition of concern because it is not going to be easy

to come by. Unionism, and I do this, I nearly gave up my political career

by telling union sometimes you are going down the wrong road on things

like Irish language, instead of reflecting the Presbyterians save

the language after the famine, that, you know, after the early days of

home rule, the Irish and English were on the welcome sight, or when

Queen Victoria visited Belfast, somehow someone came along and said

this doesn't belong to you, Mark, you know, and we all took a role and

went home. Instead of actually just saying this is part of my heritage

just as much as yours, I am as Irish as Katrina, but identity shifts, and

the fight over the First Minister stuff has worked well for the DUP in

the elections I was involved in in '07 and '11 and '16, and it hasn't

worked as well this time, but creating these men of straw and then

wondering why nobody response, instead of actually, we need to get

back to what is it we want to do, we want to be First Minister and

minister, unique purpose, you want to deal with that power and

responsibility, well, the waiting list is going, rising at a rate of

knots, what are we doing on health, and instead of fighting over things

that we don't need to, so we turned it into... Sam McBride said there

has been an awful day for unionism. And unionism has to reflect. And

that's why I have always said moving to one big party isn't a good idea.

It is why I was against unionists. You need to give choice and change.

And I hope the all star unionist party and DUP stay in the opposition

-- all star unionist party. There is a lot of food for thought. There are

80 seats which come in would just be Newport up. The DUP and Sinn Fein

are closed on this -- on it and tuck. We will be here for the next

half-hour on BBC One Northern Ireland but at this stage we say

goodbye to viewers on the News Tamil who have been with us for the

election coverage. Thank you for your coverage. Goodbye. -- news

channel. Good evening. If you're heading to bed wondering what is in