Live Morning Session Plaid Cymru Conference


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Dafydd Elis-Thomas has said his goodbye to Plaid Cymru. Leanne Wood

:00:07.:00:11.

shook hands on a deal with Labour. A sign of things to come? Welcome to

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conference live. Good morning and welcome to our

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programme from the Plaid Cymru conference. It's been quite a week

:00:30.:00:33.

for the party. The resignation of an AM, deal with Labour to pass the

:00:34.:00:38.

budget and is talk of a coalition. Plenty to occupy the minds of

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delegates avidin langue Colin. If you want to join the debate, we are

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on Twitter. And there to guide us through the proceedings, our Welsh

:00:50.:00:54.

affairs editor Vaughan Roderick. Let's take things in chronological

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order. The resignation of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas. A lot of people

:00:59.:01:04.

saw this coming. Is it a blow for Plaid Cymru or will they be glad to

:01:05.:01:08.

see the back of him? Elements of both. Someone in Plaid Cymru said to

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me this is the first time the years we won't have Dafydd Elis-Thomas

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seeing anything embarrassing on the Thursday before conference so that

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is an element of relief I think because he has been a thorn in the

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leadership's side for a long time. But there is genuine anger, people

:01:27.:01:32.

feel he used the party and was happy to let the party paid for his

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leaflets, distributed leaflets, that he let down his local party in a

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pretty shabby way. People say this might be understandable, two years

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into an assembly term of three years in but six months looks like he used

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Plaid Cymru as a flag of convenience in the 70 elections. Then followed

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the budget deal with Labour. Hailed by Plaid Cymru as the best budget

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deal for an opposition party since the formation of the assembly. How

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significant a deal is this? If you look at these deals, there are

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things people on the Labour side would like to do anyway. It's not a

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case of them forcing Labour to do something they are opposed to.

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Probably what they would say is for the first half at least of this

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assembly term with all the questions surrounding Brexit Wales needs

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stability and having an agreement with Plaid Cymru and Labour over the

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budget ensures that stability. It leaves Dafydd Elis-Thomas a bit

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lonely. He may have thought that by leaving Plaid Cymru he would become

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the government's 31st vote. It appears to me the government is not

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interested in dealing with Dafydd Elis-Thomas. They want to continue

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dealing with Plaid Cymru. Then this talk or non-talk of a coalition with

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Labour. As a Leanne Wood been flip-flopping on this? Either that

:03:02.:03:09.

or loose lipped. I was not at the briefings were she is reported to

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have said that the coalition with Labour was under consideration. But

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my colleagues were and all of them were clear about what she said. It

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does appear that she opened the door to a bug of speculation that was

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pretty pointless at this stage since no one expect there to be a

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coalition formed at this stage of the assembly. They might be one

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further down the track that no one is thinking now that there will be a

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coalition. We can put some flesh on the bones of those topics over the

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course of the next couple of hours. Let's head over to London and our

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reporter has been talking to as many people as she can. Good morning.

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Good morning. It has been a challenging week for Plaid Cymru. It

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has indeed. Welcome to langue Colin were Plaid Cymru's members are

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gathering for this conference. Yes a challenging week as he said. Just

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over a week now since Dafydd Elis-Thomas made that decision to

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leave the party. It was not unexpected may be in terms of the

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big picture but the timing perhaps was a bit unexpected. Definitely a

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sense here that people want to move on from that and I have asked some

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people about it and people just want to focus on what is being discussed

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here. Also, that talk of coalition. Again, nothing they want to talk

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about explicitly but there is that tension about where Plaid Cymru

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positions itself and the extent to which it props up Labour and to what

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extent it opposes. The morale is pretty good. They have not had the

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major divisions we have seen with other parties. But when they are

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talking about Europe the main thing they are talking about is Brexit and

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how Wales and the Welsh Government should position itself on that. They

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wanted Wales to stay in the European Union and they think there are big

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dangers in Brexit for Wales. Would we be right in thinking that Brexit

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will be the dominating theme in this conference? Definitely. That is true

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of any political discussion at the moment. Yesterday we heard from the

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party's of spokesman Rhun ap Iorwerth talking about wrecks it and

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how the Welsh Government needs to make a stronger case for Wales

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staying and Britain staying within the single market and the importance

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of that for the Welsh economy. Hywel Williams also said the harder Brexit

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position was and patriotic. The feeling that they need to put

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pressure on the Welsh Government. There are questions about Plaid

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Cymru's stands on this. Is what they are proposing, staying on the single

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market and the continuation of free movement of people as part of that

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so maintaining levels of immigration, is that in the spirit

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of how people voted? Thank you and there will be plenty more during the

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course of this morning. The conference started yesterday and

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Beth Al Lewis made reference to it. One of the main speeches was that of

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the Shadow Health Secretary. We will hear a lot about Brexit in the lead

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is a speech this afternoon which will be live here on BBC Two Wales.

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It also featured heavily in the contribution from the Assembly

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Member from Anglesey. The internationalist ever that takes

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place year lag in each year is a great symbol of something that is

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very important to me and to Wales. That is Welsh international is.

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Wales welcoming the world and celebrating diversity by inviting

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the world here and generating global links and associations and

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relationships in doing so. The world coming together in the context of a

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Welsh setting. It's interesting to note that the first National

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Eisteddfod took place in London at Primrose Hill. It was back then in

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1792 that that the voices of Welsh poets and Welsh singers filled the

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air. It's time that London and the Westminster government heard another

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Welsh voice, a united voice uniting those who voted to leave as well as

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those that voted to remain in June's referendum. A voice saying to the UK

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Government deliver annex it that works for Wales as well as it

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possibly can. Yes Wales voted to leave but I don't think Wales wants

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to take leave of its senses when it comes to our economic future. There

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is much uncertainty about the future. Uncertainty about what lies

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ahead. The Austrian American author business finger Peter Drucker said

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the best way to predict the future is to create it and it's a very

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relevant message at a time when so many people, especially young

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people, feel that their future has been taken away from them. We have

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to give them that future and let's be clear about the future we wish to

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create for our country. This is a very famous hall in Welsh political

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history. I hope you realise that. It was in this hall that a certain

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former Secretary of State for Wales made a mess of the Welsh and love

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them. -- national anthem. John Redwood knows he made a fool of

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himself that day. I am sure he regrets every now and then that he

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just stand there quietly and respectfully. He has been the butt

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of many jokes over that particular afternoon here at the National

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Eisteddfod pavilion. But Wales, don't roll over and let him and the

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hard Brexit is have the last laugh when it comes to the future of our

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country. We all need to work together on this. So Welsh

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Government has to commit more energy to fighting Wales' corner but at the

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same time we have to ensure that the eyes and taken off the ball in terms

:10:27.:10:30.

of the rest of the work of government. Worked like delivering

:10:31.:10:35.

the kind of NHS that we as patients and the staff working hard within it

:10:36.:10:41.

know it could be. We have many of the right ingredients already. A

:10:42.:10:45.

committed and skilled workforce. But we have a shortage of some of those

:10:46.:10:50.

vital ingredients into many areas and we also have in the Welsh Labour

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government a shortage of real strategy for a new approach to

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delivering better health care. Plaid Cymru's input I think into this

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week's budget announcement has demonstrated that in some areas what

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Labour regarded as impossible or fantasy politics is not. Those who

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criticised us for having an overambitious health policy that

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could not be afforded in times of austerities should reflect on some

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of what has been achieved through this just one set of budget

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negotiations in terms of carefully targeted investment. But make no

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mistake, we will continue to scrutinise the performance of labour

:11:36.:11:40.

in running the NHS, record that is let's be honest poor. What we have

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done with this one budget deal is to help remove some of the cant afford

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it excuses. We have directed much needed investment towards mental

:11:52.:11:55.

health. We have provided the tools for bringing down waiting times for

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diagnostic tests which should have a knock-on effect on wider waiting

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times for treatment. But the day-to-day responsibility for

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improving performance remains with Labour. I would like to see an end

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to the excuses offered by Labour on health. It always seems to be

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somebody else's fault why we have long waiting times or waste services

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are difficult to access. It's the fault of the UK Government for

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cutting the budget, it's the fault of Wales 's reviving heavy industry

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which left us with an ill population, it's the fault of the

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patients for going to a any rather than waiting for the nonexistent out

:12:43.:12:47.

of hours service. It's the fault of the media for reducing morale. It's

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our fault for being too negative. Let's instead in the spirit of

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positivity urged government to look for innovation, develop our own

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innovation. It's Plaid Cymru working with campaigns like a right to live

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that forced the government into rethinking the unfair process for

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individual funding requests for treatment. I am proud of that. Let's

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not say cant. This Scottish but -- government had their budgets cut as

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well. They are also looking after population dealing with the legacy

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of heavy industry and poverty but we are the ones being left behind. I

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don't want a system where a man in his 80s speaks to me about his

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despair at the fact that his wife has been on a hospital ward because

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of a simple infection for five months because there is no dementia

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care package available for her. I don't want the system where patients

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see their local surgery closed because there aren't enough doctors

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to work there. I don't want a system where pressures on staff and

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patients wait weeks when it occurred and should be days for cancer

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diagnosis, sometimes with devastating consequences. I am not

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into the game of whether our system is better or worse than England. We

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can learn from them and they can learn from us. We can all learn from

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much further afield. I simply want the Welsh NHS to be the best it can

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be. Our people and dedicated staff deserve no less.

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There are bits of what motivated people to vote no in June are things

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I understand completely. It was the desire to blame something for all

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the social and financial ills that have hit the poorest hardest. The

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desire to punish politicians for giving the impression that we have

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not been listening. And the challenge for Plaid Cymru is to

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renew that faith and trust. Neither we nor any other party can avoid the

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blame. Politicians are all seem as the same thing but Plaid Cymru is a

:15:44.:15:49.

party that is rooted in the communities of Wales. Therefore we

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are in a strong situation to regain that respect and faith. If we work

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hard we can show that we are ready to act and that is why I am very

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proud to be working with a team of counsellors, active members and

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working for a very special aim, to get the best out of our communities

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and to get the best for our nation. And the result of the election

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showed in May that people are very keen to trust in us when we show

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that we are willing to work for them and for that trust.

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So, to close. We are an old nation, but the new Wales is still young.

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Ours is an ancient plant, but this new Wales is still in its infancy.

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-- an ancient land. The recently crowned nor Baulch -- know about

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Laurie said he who is not busy being born is busy dying. I will close

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with these words. A new Wales holds so much potential for its people and

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its communities must not be allowed to falter. And the challengers put

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on our way are merely there to be overcome. Thank you very much.

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APPLAUSE. That was Rhun Ap Iorwerth from the

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state of the future for the Welsh NHS. Despite a favourable settlement

:17:42.:17:46.

this week, different councils face very different challenges. One

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particular example came to the fore this week as the leader of

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Ceredigion Council Alan up Quinn was forced to apologise for swearing in

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a BBC interview Waleed defending the way her council went about finding

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savings. She spoke yesterday of her experiences working in a rural area.

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When we look over the developments, I am struck by how much more

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difficult it is by now to cope with continuous cuts, and over the last

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four years, the rural areas of Wales have suffered much deeper cuts than

:18:23.:18:31.

the more urban districts, and I can assure you that fair funding for

:18:32.:18:37.

communities has been top of the agenda when discussing it with the

:18:38.:18:42.

new Cabinet Secretary who came to visit me recently. We have to thank

:18:43.:18:51.

Adam Price in particular for his hand in the behind-the-scenes

:18:52.:18:56.

discussions concerning local Government for 2017-2018. It is not

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half enough, of course, but the financial pot isn't anywhere near

:19:03.:19:06.

enough, either. This needs far more investment, otherwise we will lose

:19:07.:19:10.

critical services that are so essential for our people on the

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ground. Social services are just as important as health. One is

:19:16.:19:22.

dependent on the other. If health fails, then the social services have

:19:23.:19:26.

to pick up the pieces, and without sufficient funding, they cannot do

:19:27.:19:32.

so. But thankfully, some additional money has come to light. But in

:19:33.:19:38.

truth, the what is continuing to get smaller and smaller. There is a lot

:19:39.:19:44.

of work to do in that field. Since my first report in May 2012 the

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budget of Ceredigion has decreased by ?34 million. That is 26% of the

:19:53.:20:00.

budget gone. That has meant reducing the workforce significantly, and

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that is not the end, either. The cost of employment has risen by ?10

:20:04.:20:12.

million, but we can see that the greatest number of cuts have come

:20:13.:20:16.

through reshaping our services across the council. And what is

:20:17.:20:22.

becoming more and more obvious, the cuts are now hitting our services on

:20:23.:20:27.

the ground, and hitting the county's economy, as well. As with other

:20:28.:20:33.

every other county. Thanks to George Osborne and here's austerity budget

:20:34.:20:39.

and the coalition Government of the Tories and Lib Dems which Ceredigion

:20:40.:20:44.

refuse to acknowledge, the Lib Dems refused to take responsibility for

:20:45.:20:49.

the cuts. There is a strong argument by this party that following such a

:20:50.:20:54.

policy not only damages core services but also, even worse,

:20:55.:20:58.

weakens the entire economy. But there is some light through the

:20:59.:21:05.

darkness. We will wait for the statement, but up until now, the

:21:06.:21:17.

Brexit breakfast trio, we await with bated breath what they come out

:21:18.:21:23.

with... But we can at least take pride in the fact that Ceredigion

:21:24.:21:28.

voted to Remain, but on the other hand the farms in Ceredigion are in

:21:29.:21:38.

danger of losing ?44 million of grant money unless London fills the

:21:39.:21:42.

void. We will wait and see about that. That is enough good news for

:21:43.:21:51.

now! I'll rephrase that, that's the end of the bad news. And now for the

:21:52.:21:57.

good news. One thing that really encouraged me during the year was

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the way communities across the county opened their hearts after

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hearing about the poor people trying to escape from the atrocities in

:22:07.:22:13.

Syria. Collecting money and goods was fantastic. The people of

:22:14.:22:18.

Ceredigion reacted with their usual generosity, and working together,

:22:19.:22:23.

under the local services board, they responded to the current crisis and

:22:24.:22:27.

offered homes to the refugees within the county. By now, it's a small

:22:28.:22:34.

number, 11 have been welcome to Aberystwyth and another seven

:22:35.:22:38.

arriving next month. Others have settled very well, and the children

:22:39.:22:44.

are in schools and taking part in activities in the community. Some

:22:45.:22:53.

have already got jobs. We hope to take far more over the next few

:22:54.:22:56.

years over the five years of the programme, said thank you everybody

:22:57.:23:01.

who took part and helped. It is good to see that the message has also

:23:02.:23:06.

spread across Wales. But in light of the financial situation, taking hard

:23:07.:23:13.

decisions has been part of what we had to do. It wasn't going to be

:23:14.:23:18.

easy, and we had to pull together for the sake of our residents. Elen

:23:19.:23:25.

Ap Gwynn the leader of Ceredigion Council. The uplift in funding for

:23:26.:23:29.

some of the councils in Wales came about as a consequence of that deal

:23:30.:23:34.

between Labour and Plaid in the Assembly this week. Talking at the

:23:35.:23:39.

Assembly, one of the new intake is Neil McAvoy, the regional Member for

:23:40.:23:44.

South Wales West, and he is on stage at the moment. They don't know what

:23:45.:23:49.

they are. Is it right wing red Tory Blairite party, or is it, read

:23:50.:23:57.

Corbyn's UK nationalists? I don't know. -- is it comrades Corbyn's UK

:23:58.:24:03.

nationalists? Where were the biggest swings in May, Blaenau Gwent,

:24:04.:24:07.

Rhondda, Cardiff West, or from Labour to Plaid All Labour's

:24:08.:24:14.

so-called heartlands. These are Wales's heartlands and we are The

:24:15.:24:17.

Party of Wales. APPLAUSE.

:24:18.:24:26.

The strategic aim, therefore, of Plaid needs to be simple. We will

:24:27.:24:32.

replace the Labour Party as the Government of Wales.

:24:33.:24:37.

APPLAUSE. I've been busy since being elected,

:24:38.:24:47.

spending most of my time out of the Senedd, knocking on doors, speaking

:24:48.:24:51.

to people, fighting injustices and getting results for my constituents.

:24:52.:24:56.

I was in Barry on Thursday with residents and Plaid activists

:24:57.:25:00.

fighting yet another incinerator. I have also been busy shining a light

:25:01.:25:07.

on the lobbyists. Now, the Labour Party and their First Minister

:25:08.:25:10.

opposes regulating their friends in the lobbying industry. Now, does

:25:11.:25:18.

cash for access existing Cardiff Bay? Of course it does. -- exist in

:25:19.:25:26.

Cardiff Bay. And guess what, Labour ministers refused to disclose their

:25:27.:25:32.

diaries. They refuse to let the public know who they are meeting.

:25:33.:25:37.

And why. And that is a recipe for corruption. On Wednesday, I held a

:25:38.:25:46.

short debate in the Senedd debates to call for a register of lobbyists.

:25:47.:25:52.

I will keep campaigning until we get one. We need to protect our party

:25:53.:25:57.

and our watchdog democracy from corporate interests. APPLAUSE.

:25:58.:26:05.

APPLAUSE Lobbyists sell their services to the highest bidder.

:26:06.:26:11.

People like the British soft drinks Association, who will do whatever it

:26:12.:26:15.

takes to stop legislation which would reduce the amount of sugar

:26:16.:26:21.

children consume. Or the billing companies who want to destroy our

:26:22.:26:26.

green lungs in our capital city -- building companies, and who refuse

:26:27.:26:29.

to build north of Pontypridd in my constituency. We need to bring

:26:30.:26:34.

lobbying out into the open, and the public has the right to know who is

:26:35.:26:38.

being paid what to influence what decision. With a ?16 billion budget,

:26:39.:26:46.

Wales needs transparency, and regulation should be introduced

:26:47.:26:50.

without delay. I hope our whole party is able to fully get behind

:26:51.:26:57.

our Clean-up Cardiff Bay campaign because this party also needs to

:26:58.:27:02.

look at its relationship with commercial lobbyists. It is fair to

:27:03.:27:06.

say that I have had a few run ins with the First Minister over the

:27:07.:27:10.

local development plan in Cardiff, and for those who don't know, Labour

:27:11.:27:14.

took over the council in 2012 stating that they did not want to

:27:15.:27:20.

build on our green fields. Some of them even produced leaflets with

:27:21.:27:24.

children standing in fields under threat, holding up Labour signs, and

:27:25.:27:30.

accused us of being liars. Of course, as I knew they would, within

:27:31.:27:34.

months of being elected, Labour and announced plans to build tens of

:27:35.:27:40.

thousands of houses in the countryside surrounding Cardiff.

:27:41.:27:43.

Those same fields where they stood so cynically with those children

:27:44.:27:47.

will be bulldozed to make way for the new, sprawling suburbs that they

:27:48.:27:50.

assured us they have no intention of building. Traffic is already

:27:51.:27:56.

terrible comic queues go on for miles every day. Whilst politicians

:27:57.:28:03.

talk in the Assembly about reducing air pollution, the political

:28:04.:28:05.

decisions they make will ensure the lungs of our families will be filled

:28:06.:28:10.

with poisonous fumes, and virtually no extra public transport is being

:28:11.:28:15.

provided. Every consultation they have ever had shows that people

:28:16.:28:21.

don't want this. We have helped local referenda with thousands

:28:22.:28:30.

voting, 98% opposed the concrete and the carmageddon, yet Labour refused

:28:31.:28:34.

to listen. But this isn't happening in the whole of Cardiff. In the rich

:28:35.:28:39.

northern suburbs, Labour started a campaign for a green belt, so it is

:28:40.:28:42.

green belt for the wealthier areas but Green destruction for Fairwater

:28:43.:28:49.

and Ely. Where are the Corbyn supporters challenging this? Here is

:28:50.:28:54.

an example of environmental vandalism being inflicted on

:28:55.:28:57.

disadvantaged communities to make huge profits for housing developers,

:28:58.:29:02.

employing lobbyists by the way. Where is the so-called champion of

:29:03.:29:07.

the environment. Labour appointed well-being and future generations

:29:08.:29:13.

Commissioner Sophie how. In the Senedd, the only response I get to

:29:14.:29:17.

my questions from the First Minister on the LDP is outright rudeness. He

:29:18.:29:22.

told me I live in a land of fantasy, called me a coward, says my

:29:23.:29:26.

statements in the Senedd not worthy of response. He is the one living in

:29:27.:29:32.

a fantasyland. He will not admit that he stated on the record to a

:29:33.:29:38.

journalist his party would implement the LDP, meaning tens of thousands

:29:39.:29:42.

of houses built on Cardiff's greenfield sites. And this has been

:29:43.:29:47.

confirmed by the journalist, even though Carwyn Jones still denies it.

:29:48.:29:53.

But his Government press office is slightly confused, because they say

:29:54.:29:57.

he did say it, but as leader of the Labour Party and Potter 's First

:29:58.:30:01.

Minister. Now, you couldn't make it up, could you? You know, Carwyn

:30:02.:30:06.

Jones might not think my statements in the Senedd are worthy of

:30:07.:30:10.

response, but he will get his response in May when Labour are

:30:11.:30:13.

thrown out of city Government in Cardiff.

:30:14.:30:14.

APPLAUSE. . Now, the thing is, this isn't just

:30:15.:30:26.

happening in Cardiff. We have Wrexham, they have tried to do it in

:30:27.:30:31.

Caerphilly, Plaid Cymru activists including the unstoppable Lindsay

:30:32.:30:35.

Whittle got the plans thrown out. APPLAUSE.

:30:36.:30:43.

Now, our communities are not here to be steam-rollered by some planning

:30:44.:30:48.

Inspectorate in Birmingham. They don't care about our history, our

:30:49.:30:53.

culture, our way of life. They have no concern that the quiet rural

:30:54.:30:58.

villages of Saint flagons and others are about to be part of a massive

:30:59.:31:03.

housing estate all built on green fields, and the housing developers

:31:04.:31:06.

certainly don't care about our way of life. The new developments,

:31:07.:31:11.

church lands, Cardiff Point, with a knee at the end for no apparent

:31:12.:31:16.

reason, this is Cardiff, the capital of Wales, we are not some corporate

:31:17.:31:21.

cash cow. We are the largest collection of Welsh people living

:31:22.:31:24.

together they have ever been in history, and our capital city must

:31:25.:31:26.

reflect this. A Cardiff Plaid Cymru councillor

:31:27.:31:44.

will use section 68 and will vote to tell the Welsh assembly to revoke

:31:45.:31:48.

Cardiff's unwanted local development plan because we will protect our

:31:49.:31:59.

city after May's election. This is easily the worst Welsh Government in

:32:00.:32:04.

history. The evidence is all around us. Just a few weeks ago I was

:32:05.:32:07.

exposing Labour's incompetence in the media, they sold to shops in

:32:08.:32:14.

Pontypridd and lost ?1 million. ?1 million just gone on to shops. How

:32:15.:32:19.

many play centres is that? How many doctors or nurses? This land in

:32:20.:32:25.

Rhoose which was sold by the Welsh Government for ?3 million and the

:32:26.:32:29.

person who bought it then sold the land for ?10.5 million. Another ?7.5

:32:30.:32:40.

million loss. But the real jewel in Labour's incompetence was the

:32:41.:32:49.

Lisvane land deal. Land was sold for just ?1.8 million when it was worth

:32:50.:32:59.

over ?40 million. Labour lost ?39 million of our money on one land

:33:00.:33:08.

deal. When ?39 million is lost like that somebody should be going to

:33:09.:33:13.

jail. At the very least somebody should lose their job. But nothing

:33:14.:33:20.

in Cardiff Bay, it's just another day at the office for this dodgy

:33:21.:33:25.

Welsh Labour. Business support as well is being squandered. A business

:33:26.:33:32.

next to Edwina Hart was like former constituency where the money was

:33:33.:33:38.

signed off by Edwina Hart. Did she declare an interest? Of course not.

:33:39.:33:45.

?3.4 million loss on a company which was described as having a weak

:33:46.:33:49.

business case. That doesn't stop Labour. Whistle-blowers are coming

:33:50.:33:57.

to me all the time and the stories I hear amount to a scandal. Who needs

:33:58.:34:03.

a strong business plan when a nod and a wink and knowing the right

:34:04.:34:09.

Labour people is all that really matters? This was not what we signed

:34:10.:34:17.

up for. Devolution was meant to be about Wales being governed better

:34:18.:34:22.

for the people of Wales not some red Tory aristocrats. There are people

:34:23.:34:30.

think this Welsh Labour government is so bad that we need to go into

:34:31.:34:37.

coalition with them. Let me tell you, Labour want coalition. They

:34:38.:34:43.

would love a coalition and there is a small minority and Plaid Cymru

:34:44.:34:47.

will think that we have to take one for the team. To do what is right

:34:48.:34:55.

for Wales. The simple truth is that what is right for Wales is ending

:34:56.:35:07.

Labour rule. We need to spend the next four and a half years grinding

:35:08.:35:11.

them down, challenging them at every opportunity. The way to move Wales

:35:12.:35:16.

forward is by moving Labour out of the way. If our contact with Labour

:35:17.:35:29.

is so good let's have a vote on it. Labour vote against bringing in an

:35:30.:35:33.

autism act and that should have been game over. We should have nothing to

:35:34.:35:41.

do with that. The public once robust opposition and that is what we

:35:42.:35:49.

should give them. When we challenged Labour to be first blister our

:35:50.:35:51.

support went up in the opinion polls. But we backed down and our

:35:52.:35:58.

level of support dropped. We need to take a serious look at ourselves

:35:59.:36:04.

because it may we had an unpopular Conservative government, a Liberal

:36:05.:36:08.

Democrat party which had imploded, a CORBA night Labour Party in free

:36:09.:36:13.

fall yet we only had good results in a handful of seats. If we go into

:36:14.:36:18.

coalition with Labour we will lose support and we will never have the

:36:19.:36:30.

power to really change Wales. We are not a pressure group. We don't exist

:36:31.:36:36.

to movement he around in Labour's budget. We need to take over the

:36:37.:36:42.

reins of power in this country. We needed Plaid Cymru government and a

:36:43.:36:47.

Plaid Cymru First Minister in charge of the thousands of Welsh civil

:36:48.:36:51.

servants who will implement our manifesto. Our Welsh democracy needs

:36:52.:37:05.

recognisable difference. We need clear green water between a corrupt,

:37:06.:37:13.

stagnant Welsh Labour and as the party of Wales. Wales needs a real

:37:14.:37:24.

opposition and that can only come from us. Thank you.

:37:25.:37:33.

That was Neil McEvoy the Assembly Member for South Wales Central and

:37:34.:37:39.

little doubt as to which side of the feds he is sitting on when talk of a

:37:40.:37:43.

coalition with Labour comes up. Let's step out of the conference

:37:44.:37:47.

hall and join our reporter who has some guests. I am joined by Sian

:37:48.:38:00.

Gwenllian and Mabon ap Gwynfor. Let's get your reaction to what you

:38:01.:38:05.

heard from Neil McEvoy. Very strong words about Welsh Labour. About the

:38:06.:38:13.

prospect of a coalition and the corporation going on between Labour

:38:14.:38:16.

and Plaid Cymru. What do you make of what he had to say? He is a

:38:17.:38:20.

passionate politician who is doing fantastic work in Cardiff and is

:38:21.:38:27.

actually leading a very strong local election campaign in the city of

:38:28.:38:33.

Cardiff. Should we view this in the context of Plaid Cymru against

:38:34.:38:38.

Labour in local elections? He has got a strong point of view. I don't

:38:39.:38:48.

share most of it. I think Plaid Cymru can be in opposition and can

:38:49.:38:54.

be constructive as well as being pointing out what's wrong. We need

:38:55.:39:03.

in our team different points of view coming through and Neal is a very

:39:04.:39:10.

valuable member of our team. I think we can work with Labour on some

:39:11.:39:15.

things, for example I've got a Welsh language in my portfolio and I work

:39:16.:39:18.

with the Minister Alun Davies to move forward some aspects. But if I

:39:19.:39:25.

think things are progressing quickly enough or targets are not being sent

:39:26.:39:28.

for strategies are not being followed through I will be the first

:39:29.:39:34.

one to start criticising as well. So we need that too edged approach.

:39:35.:39:39.

Neil McEvoy suggested there should be a vote on the agreement that is

:39:40.:39:44.

between Labour and Plaid Cymru and gave rise to the budget agreement

:39:45.:39:48.

for example. What are you make of that? I would not like to see a

:39:49.:39:56.

vote. As a member of Plaid Cymru we delegate powers to our Assembly

:39:57.:40:00.

Members and our elected representatives to go into

:40:01.:40:05.

discussions with other parties in the assembly so that they can strike

:40:06.:40:09.

the best deal. We stood by our manifesto and we hope and we are

:40:10.:40:13.

happy this time that Plaid Cymru has managed to secure the best deal

:40:14.:40:21.

possible for the people of Wales. Neil McEvoy said Plaid Cymru should

:40:22.:40:24.

have absolutely nothing to do with them. You would not go that far? I

:40:25.:40:30.

wouldn't. People have different views. That is what politics is

:40:31.:40:37.

about. To my mind this is an issue which is contrived by the press and

:40:38.:40:44.

the media. We are talking about it now because it has been ongoing for

:40:45.:40:50.

the last 24 hours. His opposition to cooperation with Labour is no

:40:51.:40:55.

secret. He has been talking about it prolonged time. He is a former

:40:56.:40:59.

Labour councillor and has very strong views about the Labour Party.

:41:00.:41:03.

Hasn't he picked up by the problem here. You provide opposition but

:41:04.:41:08.

other times you are working with them. Wade is Plaid Cymru really

:41:09.:41:13.

stand? Is it compromising your profile? The main problem is that

:41:14.:41:18.

Plaid Cymru is not in government. If we were in government we would be

:41:19.:41:22.

setting the agenda and delivering and moving Wales forward. We are not

:41:23.:41:27.

in that addition unfortunately. We are building on that and the local

:41:28.:41:30.

elections are going to be really important that a stepping stone. You

:41:31.:41:36.

don't have to be propping up Labour? We're not propping up Labour. We are

:41:37.:41:40.

providing effective opposition and we are moving our agenda onwards.

:41:41.:41:46.

The budget has shown that clearly. Our priorities are coming through in

:41:47.:41:50.

that budget and that is through negotiating and talking. If we see a

:41:51.:41:55.

few months down the line that some of those budget proposals are not

:41:56.:42:05.

being delivered we will be the first to be criticising heavily as well.

:42:06.:42:08.

It is a matter of keeping that balance I think, being constructive

:42:09.:42:13.

and working together where we can but also providing that scrutiny and

:42:14.:42:18.

that level of criticism that really needs to happen. The Labour

:42:19.:42:24.

government are not delivering or showing the leadership they should

:42:25.:42:27.

be and it's up to us to point that out. Could it be confusing for the

:42:28.:42:34.

electorate to see Plaid Cymru and Labour hailing a budget deal one day

:42:35.:42:39.

and then the following day you are having a go at them over Europe? I

:42:40.:42:44.

don't think the electorate are that stupid. They know this is party

:42:45.:42:52.

politics. What I'm concerned about is the electorate will look at this

:42:53.:42:55.

and say why are we talking here today about this issue when the most

:42:56.:43:01.

important issue facing Wales is how we're going to deal with Brexit.

:43:02.:43:06.

What is Wales' role going to be in the discussions with the EU? What

:43:07.:43:11.

will our role be within the discussions? Theresa May has said

:43:12.:43:18.

we're not going to get their voice. That is what we're looking at here

:43:19.:43:22.

this weekend. That is our focus. What role can Plaid Cymru play in

:43:23.:43:27.

securing that Wales is represented and we get the best deal. I will ask

:43:28.:43:33.

you quickly about negotiations about Brexit. Isn't it a problem view that

:43:34.:43:42.

your influences marginal on this? It depends on you feeding into the

:43:43.:43:47.

Welsh Government's position and then them feeding into Theresa May's

:43:48.:43:54.

position. I see what you are saying because we're not in government and

:43:55.:43:57.

we need to be in government. If we were in government we would be much

:43:58.:44:02.

stronger than Labour is now in presenting the Welsh point of view

:44:03.:44:07.

and we would be arguing the case for membership of the single market

:44:08.:44:13.

because that is what is best for Wales and the economy of Wales. We

:44:14.:44:17.

are not having that leadership from Labour. We're not sure where they

:44:18.:44:22.

stand. I am really worried the Welsh voices being lost in all these

:44:23.:44:26.

negotiations at the moment. Thank you very much for your time. Back to

:44:27.:44:34.

the studio. Isn't it be us from what we heard earlier from Neil McEvoy

:44:35.:44:38.

and from the guests there that like Camry is finding it very difficult

:44:39.:44:43.

to decide where the dividing line is for an opposition party. Yes and I

:44:44.:44:47.

think they found themselves in a difficult position and to be blunt

:44:48.:44:51.

about it there are two opposing camps. What you have at the moment

:44:52.:44:59.

is a not very comfortable compromise between those two camps. They are

:45:00.:45:04.

not going to coalition felt so they are keeping people like Neil McEvoy

:45:05.:45:08.

onside and they are making deals with Labour keeping people like Sian

:45:09.:45:12.

Gwenllian onside. But that tension is there and it's going to continue.

:45:13.:45:21.

Caxton 's stage -- at some stage the party will have to choose once and

:45:22.:45:25.

for all whether they are going to go into coalition or whether they are

:45:26.:45:29.

going to go into full opposition mode. It is not time critical that

:45:30.:45:35.

decision. But sooner rather than later? If you keep having these

:45:36.:45:42.

arguments surfacing in public they may say this is something we have to

:45:43.:45:46.

resolve. But Plaid Cymru would need to look at the issue. If you're

:45:47.:45:54.

going to break that deal with Labour it has to be over something. You can

:45:55.:45:58.

say we have changed our minds. There has to be an issue on which they

:45:59.:46:02.

break with Labour and think if they were looking for the issue would be

:46:03.:46:06.

somewhere around the government's stance on Brexit.

:46:07.:46:11.

There is a substantial difference between what Plaid Cymru thinks

:46:12.:46:19.

about Brexit and what Carwyn Jones thinks. Ultimately it will be the

:46:20.:46:24.

Assembly group's decision but for Leanne Wood to show leadership on

:46:25.:46:27.

this matter. Do we know where she stands on this? Well, I think the

:46:28.:46:34.

signals Leanne Wood has sent out have been a little confusing, to be

:46:35.:46:41.

honest. As a leader, she is trying to straddle both sides. The

:46:42.:46:45.

difficulty is that straddling both sides can often look like sitting on

:46:46.:46:49.

the fence. She has been trying to send out signals that may be a

:46:50.:46:54.

little muddled. It is something the party is going to resolve and one of

:46:55.:46:59.

the big challenges for her as party leader. And the dynamic in the

:47:00.:47:04.

Assembly, although we heard there is an accusation levelled, we have an

:47:05.:47:07.

obsession with this question, the dynamic in the Assembly, the

:47:08.:47:12.

numbers, makes it a very live issue, doesn't it? Absolutely. We had an

:47:13.:47:20.

Assembly issue is the -- and Assembly election where Labour

:47:21.:47:26.

managed to make of the majority with the sole Liberal Democrat Kirsty

:47:27.:47:31.

Williams. You now have a couple of floating independent members in the

:47:32.:47:35.

sense of Dafydd Elis-Thomas and the Ukip Member floating, so the maths

:47:36.:47:41.

are there for Labour to do day-to-day deals that they would

:47:42.:47:44.

rather have a running deal with Plaid. The question is, how long

:47:45.:47:49.

will Plaid be able to put up with that. It may be the question that is

:47:50.:47:55.

ultimately resolved by a leadership contest within Plaid It is not clear

:47:56.:48:00.

to me whether Leanne Wood intends to leave Plaid Cymru right the way

:48:01.:48:04.

through this Assembly into the next Assembly election when maybe she

:48:05.:48:09.

would look a little shop soiled, little old and tired compared to a

:48:10.:48:15.

new, fresh, Labour leader, because we expect Carwyn Jones to stand

:48:16.:48:19.

down. It might be resolved by the leadership contest. For the time

:48:20.:48:24.

being, thank you. The newest Member of applied Westminster group, Liz

:48:25.:48:36.

Sabha- Roberts made a speech yesterday. I would like to begin my

:48:37.:48:43.

speech with a word of tribute to the families of Aberfan. I know that

:48:44.:48:49.

event has been burnt into the memories of everyone who was old

:48:50.:48:52.

enough to understand what happened on that dreadful day. For younger

:48:53.:48:58.

people, what remains in the memory, and to me, what stays in my mind,

:48:59.:49:04.

who doesn't remember the event, what is burnt on my mind is the second of

:49:05.:49:17.

understanding the shock of how the families of Aberfan were dealt with.

:49:18.:49:22.

We need to remember that. The treatment they got. And for all

:49:23.:49:29.

first, the dignity of those families is something we recall. Let us learn

:49:30.:49:36.

the lessons of Aberfan in our politics, in our dealings with each

:49:37.:49:42.

other. And what John Humphrys said in his report this morning, in

:49:43.:49:49.

closing his report. "We Need to hold onto this." Always, always, we must

:49:50.:49:58.

challenge authority. APPLAUSE.

:49:59.:50:10.

. When I started planning this speech, it was quite obvious to me

:50:11.:50:19.

that as the parliamentary leader would give you a report, I then

:50:20.:50:25.

would concentrate on the occasional other issue, but that's what the

:50:26.:50:33.

plan was. But, in the meantime, of course, my former colleague Dafydd

:50:34.:50:41.

Elis-Thomas said he was going to leave Plaid and be an independent

:50:42.:50:47.

Member. He did that before the constituency committee on Friday.

:50:48.:50:52.

And I would like to note that each and every one of them who was there,

:50:53.:50:58.

members with years, decades, some of them, five decades in the case of

:50:59.:51:04.

some of them, of activity and loyalty towards the members and the

:51:05.:51:12.

party, and enthusiasm towards Dafydd . There was a feeling of shock and

:51:13.:51:19.

disappointment and sadness. The constituency committee appeal to

:51:20.:51:24.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas's conscience. -- appealed. It is only a matter of

:51:25.:51:36.

natural justice. It's a matter of constitutional principle. That is,

:51:37.:51:46.

no one should be a judge in his own case, and that's all I have to say

:51:47.:51:49.

on the matter. APPLAUSE.

:51:50.:52:05.

And, of course, there is such a thing as campaigning and looking

:52:06.:52:11.

back on former days, and aren't we looking forward to a prosperous

:52:12.:52:21.

future for Wales? In Pwllheli in Dwyfor Meirionydd, Plaid Cymru was

:52:22.:52:28.

established. And this year we had the biggest political shock in the

:52:29.:52:32.

British state with the vote to leave the European Union. It was only

:52:33.:52:37.

gradually that the effect of this decision has reached us, only barely

:52:38.:52:45.

four months after the referendum. But the raw emotion of the

:52:46.:52:57.

referendum is still with us and it's important to recognise the

:52:58.:53:00.

importance of this. Didn't we see that regeneration in Scotland two

:53:01.:53:06.

years ago? Of course, although politics can sometimes be a matter

:53:07.:53:11.

of dry constitutional arguing over the dry bones of legislation, it is

:53:12.:53:19.

also a matter of passion. We need to flesh out those dry bones, to bring

:53:20.:53:25.

politics alive. It is through their emotions that people awake, and the

:53:26.:53:31.

Brexit referendum was an emotional time. There were public meetings.

:53:32.:53:39.

This was a time of awakening. It is so much easier to be afraid of

:53:40.:53:45.

something, and Plaid Cymru, our party, must be aware and face that

:53:46.:53:54.

fear in people. I am pleased to say that the troubles of the Brexit

:53:55.:53:59.

referendum have opened the eyes of a group of young people, that there is

:54:00.:54:04.

a younger generation awakening to the need to awaken and become

:54:05.:54:16.

active. They are asking new questions, they are bringing new

:54:17.:54:24.

leaders, there are branches of Plaid Ifanc coming forward. These are the

:54:25.:54:31.

new people of Wales, and we welcome everyone of you, Plaid Ifanc, to our

:54:32.:54:35.

ranks. APPLAUSE.

:54:36.:54:41.

And of course, your parliamentary team, we are back in London after

:54:42.:54:46.

the summer, a new team with a new team of workers. And I want to pay

:54:47.:54:52.

tribute to them, as well. We have said goodbye to Elen Haf Roberts,

:54:53.:55:01.

and I must say, and I can get away with this because I was a new MP,

:55:02.:55:07.

they have really supported me. As a totally new and clueless MP.

:55:08.:55:11.

Fighting a campaign is one thing, believe me, being an MP is something

:55:12.:55:16.

else. And it was so good to have these people behind me. I have a

:55:17.:55:27.

feeling that there was slight disappointment about losing the

:55:28.:55:31.

gravitas of Elfyn Llwyd. He more than anyone helped me deal with the

:55:32.:55:41.

bonkers protocol of Westminster. One Elin, to a great disappointment, has

:55:42.:55:49.

left Westminster to join the team at Cardiff, and of course she will be

:55:50.:55:57.

very welcome there. It is important to have support in Cardiff, as in

:55:58.:56:01.

London. I am pleased now to have a new and excellent team in

:56:02.:56:09.

Westminster. Last year, Osian Lewis came to us, and we have had new

:56:10.:56:15.

members over the summer. We have a new employed officer for a year

:56:16.:56:22.

through the speakers scheme, and Elizabeth Calmeros has joined us for

:56:23.:56:31.

a term. Harry Fletcher, the expert on victim 's rights, is a Member of

:56:32.:56:37.

the team, and he brings years of experience. I welcome each and every

:56:38.:56:42.

one to the committee. I hope some are in the hall, and thank you,

:56:43.:56:50.

thank you all of you. APPLAUSE. And if I go along that angle, I want

:56:51.:56:55.

to thank everyone, but I must thank the people in the office. In order

:56:56.:57:03.

to include everyone. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't true, I couldn't

:57:04.:57:12.

go without your help in the office, that is certain. Of course much of

:57:13.:57:18.

our work in recent months has involved the ongoing saga of

:57:19.:57:22.

scuttling over semantics, grudging consent, missed opportunities and

:57:23.:57:26.

barefaced rollback of powers that is the Wales Bill. Three years after

:57:27.:57:32.

the Silk Commission recommendations, the UK Government finally published

:57:33.:57:36.

its response in the Wales Bill, the fourth piece of primary legislation

:57:37.:57:40.

in 18 years. Disappointingly but hardly surprisingly, the Bill was,

:57:41.:57:46.

and remains, a long way from the practical consensus achieved by

:57:47.:57:51.

Silk. Given that Paul Silke strove to gain consensus across all four

:57:52.:57:55.

parties recommended it was only reasonable to accept expect the

:57:56.:58:00.

Government to accept the report in its entirety. But the Saint Davids

:58:01.:58:09.

Day process, insufficient to be named agreement, tour Silk apart,

:58:10.:58:12.

cherry picking items which fitted the Tory agenda which didn't scare

:58:13.:58:18.

Tory horses and departmental interests than discarded the rest

:58:19.:58:22.

regardless of the needs of Wales. It was once again up to Plaid Cymru to

:58:23.:58:26.

defend our country's interest in the Commons on the Lords. The Plaid

:58:27.:58:31.

Cymru group, I am proud to say, was seen by most commentators to be by

:58:32.:58:35.

far the most effective party in the debates on the Bill, to all effects

:58:36.:58:39.

and purposes, we were the official opposition from Wales. Senedd Hywel

:58:40.:58:50.

Jonathan and I said submitted a number of amendments alongside

:58:51.:58:54.

silent and sometimes empty Labour benches. We forced votes in key

:58:55.:58:58.

areas for Wales such as much resources, policing and the legal

:58:59.:59:02.

jurisdiction, and why we secured the odd victory in some of the overly

:59:03.:59:05.

restrictive drafting, our amendments to bring Wales into line with the

:59:06.:59:10.

Commission's recommendations on the Scotland Act was stubbornly opposed

:59:11.:59:17.

by the Tories. There were also largely ignored by Lebanon once

:59:18.:59:20.

again refused to support our amendments. In the case of the

:59:21.:59:25.

amendment proposing a compromise, distinctly legal jurisdiction, we

:59:26.:59:29.

used exactly the same words as those in the alternative Wales Bill

:59:30.:59:32.

provided by the label Welsh Government. To no avail. Somewhere

:59:33.:59:37.

between so-called Welsh Labour and London Labour, there was a policy

:59:38.:59:42.

somersault, a backward flip. Or perhaps it was Welsh Labour bowing

:59:43.:59:46.

to their Westminster masters. Although the Bill as it stands does

:59:47.:59:50.

indeed devolve some powers, which of course had to be welcomed, powers

:59:51.:59:55.

such as fracking, electoral matters and somewhat as regards energy, it

:59:56.:00:00.

also pulls powers back to Westminster. The Parliamentary team

:00:01.:00:04.

will continue to work on the Bill as it progresses through the House of

:00:05.:00:07.

Lords before it is handed to be Assembly team won the Westminster

:00:08.:00:10.

Government seeks Assembly consent. And I would like to draw to a close

:00:11.:00:16.

by assuring you today that your team in London will not under any

:00:17.:00:21.

circumstances allow Westminster to silence Wales and carry out another

:00:22.:00:26.

at Whitehall power grab. We will work diligently to empower our

:00:27.:00:32.

Parliament, our nation and our people with a leave as we need,

:00:33.:00:39.

leave as we once had, to forge our own future. We will argue over

:00:40.:00:44.

obscure and arcane issues of jurisdiction and constitution,

:00:45.:00:50.

minutiae spawned by the most anorak to political obsessives, and we will

:00:51.:00:55.

do that to build up of body politic for the nation of Wales. But we will

:00:56.:01:01.

never, never accept Westminster sophistry that undermines the

:01:02.:01:04.

direction of our nation's travel to independence. Thank you very much.

:01:05.:01:11.

From one sitting MP to a former MP who now sits in the assembly. We can

:01:12.:01:17.

join Adam Price who is joining us live from London. I remember we had

:01:18.:01:25.

quite a heated debate in our spring conference on this programme when

:01:26.:01:29.

you promised there would be a political earthquake but it didn't

:01:30.:01:31.

quite happen apart from some ground moving in the Rhondda. The

:01:32.:01:39.

earthquake we did have was an unwelcome one, the referendum vote

:01:40.:01:45.

which unfortunately has unleashed this tsunami of uncertainty we are

:01:46.:01:51.

living through at the moment. That is something that all of us in Wales

:01:52.:01:56.

are concerned about and that is why we need the kind of political

:01:57.:02:00.

leadership that sadly we are still lacking at the moment in Cardiff

:02:01.:02:03.

Bay. You deflected that question very well! One of the previous

:02:04.:02:11.

speakers on stage this morning, Neil McEvoy, said your party needs to

:02:12.:02:16.

take a serious look at yourself and he was making reference to the flux

:02:17.:02:20.

of the other parties were in at the time of the assembly election.

:02:21.:02:24.

Therefore you should have done much better than you did. I think Neil

:02:25.:02:33.

McEvoy was referring to some of the areas where we did very well with it

:02:34.:02:37.

was a huge swing from Labour to Plaid Cymru and he was making the

:02:38.:02:42.

point that actually if we were able to repeat those successes in the

:02:43.:02:47.

Rhondda, the near success we had in Blaenau Gwent and in Cardiff West,

:02:48.:02:52.

that shows the platform is they and the appetite is there actually for

:02:53.:02:56.

Plaid Cymru doing well at a national level which means that we can secure

:02:57.:03:01.

the kind of earthquake that I was hoping for at the 2021 elections

:03:02.:03:07.

when finally can get government that is led by a different party. On what

:03:08.:03:15.

you call the unwelcome earthquake, you were on the wrong side of the

:03:16.:03:20.

argument in June. Are you not on the wrong side of the argument this

:03:21.:03:24.

time? You are calling the something which the Welsh people voted against

:03:25.:03:27.

which is membership of the single market. I don't remember seeing that

:03:28.:03:37.

on the ballot. It is a very small ballot vapour and in the small print

:03:38.:03:42.

which might not have appeared on the ballot paper, people are wise enough

:03:43.:03:47.

to know what they were voting for and membership of the single market

:03:48.:03:52.

would have been one of those things. I don't think so. It is very

:03:53.:03:58.

important we are clear about this. The problem we are now dealing with

:03:59.:04:03.

was it was never spelt out what kind of Brexit was going to flow from

:04:04.:04:11.

that decision. I don't believe that every single one of the 52% that

:04:12.:04:18.

voted for Brexit were voting for a hard Brexit. You will have people on

:04:19.:04:24.

the spectrum and some of them who voted to leave would have done so on

:04:25.:04:29.

the basis of staying within the single market which is an option of

:04:30.:04:32.

course. In terms of the Welsh economy, as we know we are one of

:04:33.:04:38.

the most export intensive parts of the UK and the soul leaving the

:04:39.:04:42.

single market is going to have a bigger impact upon jobs and

:04:43.:04:46.

prosperity in Wales than most other parts of the UK. Obviously it is

:04:47.:04:51.

something that is deeply concerning and speaking to businesses in line

:04:52.:04:55.

ball in over the last few days they are deeply worried about the impact

:04:56.:05:00.

and this is not some kind of abstract academic abating point,

:05:01.:05:06.

this is going to affect people's livelihoods and we are right to say

:05:07.:05:09.

we will not accept a hard Brexit being imposed upon us without

:05:10.:05:15.

democratic accountability because it's not the kind of option Wales

:05:16.:05:21.

deserves. What were people voting on then? If they were not voting on

:05:22.:05:25.

leaving the single market -- market or controlling immigration, what was

:05:26.:05:29.

the point of having the referendum in the first place? The referendum

:05:30.:05:36.

was to leave the European Union. The political union. That decision is

:05:37.:05:43.

done. That is clear. The question of what happens next, we have a range

:05:44.:05:53.

of options and there are extreme Brexit here is calling for the

:05:54.:05:57.

hardest possible Brexit. That was never presented as the only shown on

:05:58.:06:06.

the table. They were many people arguing for a Brexit vote which said

:06:07.:06:09.

don't worry we can stay inside the single market and have the best of

:06:10.:06:13.

both worlds. This is the Boris Johnson line, wanting his cake and

:06:14.:06:20.

eating it. This was part of the many falsehoods and lies unfortunately

:06:21.:06:23.

that were at the heart of that campaign. It's not now acceptable to

:06:24.:06:31.

say when we said you could come out of the EU but stay in the single

:06:32.:06:37.

market we didn't mean it. When you are campaigning during the

:06:38.:06:42.

referendum and knocking on doors, were people saying to you we want to

:06:43.:06:51.

control immigration? I had many conversations during the referendum

:06:52.:06:55.

campaign and I think to be honest with you migration came up on two or

:06:56.:07:04.

three occasions. Only two people mentioned controlling immigration

:07:05.:07:11.

during the campaign? Yes, in my case, that was not part of the

:07:12.:07:15.

conversations I was having. It did come up during the assembly

:07:16.:07:17.

campaign. They were more conversations on it then but during

:07:18.:07:21.

the referendum campaign the conversations I had focused more on

:07:22.:07:30.

the economy. I have a constituency which is a big agricultural sector

:07:31.:07:33.

so it tended to focus on questions about the impact for example on our

:07:34.:07:38.

farming sector and what it would mean in terms of access to the

:07:39.:07:41.

single market. Maybe conversations in other parts of Wales and the

:07:42.:07:45.

different profile but in my case it focused very much on the economic

:07:46.:07:50.

impact. Can we turn to the talk that has been this week about a

:07:51.:07:56.

coalition. Leanne Wood has said the party is genuinely torn on the

:07:57.:07:59.

matter. Would I be right in thinking that you are one of the Plaid Cymru

:08:00.:08:03.

Assembly Members who would be in favour of a coalition? I am already

:08:04.:08:11.

on the record and my opinion changed after the Brexit vote because I feel

:08:12.:08:16.

as if we are entering into one of the most uncertain chapters in our

:08:17.:08:22.

history and I felt as a result of that we needed a united front if you

:08:23.:08:30.

like in Wales in order for us to steer the ship through these

:08:31.:08:33.

difficult times. I am in a minority though. I might be a name and I

:08:34.:08:40.

accept that as a Democrat. You make your case within a party. How many

:08:41.:08:57.

other members would be in favour? I am not going to do a roll call. But

:08:58.:09:06.

you would not be the only one would you? I'm not going through a roll

:09:07.:09:11.

call of members. There is a minority view within Plaid Cymru that would

:09:12.:09:16.

like to strengthen and deepen the cooperation. There are some within

:09:17.:09:22.

the party will think we should break the compact and moving to a more

:09:23.:09:26.

conventional out and out opposition role. With the majority of our

:09:27.:09:29.

members and supporters are at the moment is someone in the middle

:09:30.:09:34.

which says we can being sponsored opposition, a constructive

:09:35.:09:37.

opposition and we saw that through the combat with the deal on the

:09:38.:09:41.

budget, that we should be holding the government to account. In areas

:09:42.:09:45.

where we are working for the best interests of Wales the majority of

:09:46.:09:49.

members and supporters feel we have got the balance right at the moment.

:09:50.:09:53.

We are a Democratic party and this is a debate and discussion which

:09:54.:09:58.

will continue and it will be the membership that will decide. That is

:09:59.:10:02.

one of the great things about Plaid Cymru. It is a bottom-up grassroots

:10:03.:10:08.

party. It will be the members who decide are we getting the balance

:10:09.:10:11.

right in terms of holding the government to account and on the

:10:12.:10:18.

other hand making sure we're Wales' national interest requires that we

:10:19.:10:23.

do work together with other parties to secure the best you for Wales. On

:10:24.:10:27.

the budget deal, hailed by you as the best ever secured by an

:10:28.:10:32.

opposition party since the beginning of devolution, it is less than 1% of

:10:33.:10:41.

the total budget. It is 0.79% of everything that the Welsh Government

:10:42.:10:44.

spends. Is that the height of your ambition? Only about two or 3% of a

:10:45.:10:54.

budget changes in any year. Most of the expenditure stays at the

:10:55.:11:01.

existing level. Influences minimal isn't it? In that perspective it was

:11:02.:11:07.

about a third of the changes made in this budget. It is not just me

:11:08.:11:13.

saying it was the biggest 11, that is in -- an objective fact. If you

:11:14.:11:20.

think betting ?20 million extra for mental health is irrelevant, talk to

:11:21.:11:27.

people like I do, my constituents, who suffer with mental health

:11:28.:11:30.

problems. The gap problems in terms of Child and adolescent mental

:11:31.:11:36.

health. This is the core of what democratic politics should be about.

:11:37.:11:42.

Responding to people's needs. Using the power and influence you have to

:11:43.:11:48.

make life better for the citizens of Wales. I am proud of the deal we

:11:49.:11:54.

secured. We started to close the funding gap in and colleges in Wales

:11:55.:11:59.

can pay to England. A ?76 million funding gap and we have got a ?30

:12:00.:12:05.

million increase which is a major step forward in reinvesting in our

:12:06.:12:09.

knowledge base. That is the kind of thing I went into politics for. It

:12:10.:12:14.

is what my country should be all about. Using the levers we have to

:12:15.:12:18.

make life better for the citizens of our country. Adam Price, thank you.

:12:19.:12:26.

The future of steel-making in Wales has been at the forefront of

:12:27.:12:28.

politicians mind for some months. The Tata steel site is in the region

:12:29.:12:36.

represented by Bethan Jenkins and she shared the debate on

:12:37.:12:41.

strengthening the industry. This year has been a tempestuous one for

:12:42.:12:45.

Welsh industry. But since the closure of the last of our minds

:12:46.:12:51.

have we faced times like this. First, the real threat of the

:12:52.:12:54.

closure of the Tata steel works in my own constituency. It has been

:12:55.:12:59.

estimated that our steel industry and supplied the pens on it

:13:00.:13:05.

employers many as 18,000 people in Wales. This would represent a huge

:13:06.:13:10.

loss to Wales. Perhaps when our economy would find it hard to

:13:11.:13:13.

recover from and certainly one that would devastate towns like Port

:13:14.:13:20.

Talbot, Llanelli and Shotton. Of course we have not got to that point

:13:21.:13:23.

yet and we will not, we will fight it. Plaid Cymru's track record is

:13:24.:13:30.

supporting our industry and we need to intensify our support

:13:31.:13:32.

across-the-board. Then there is Brexit. We have been told that with

:13:33.:13:39.

huge amounts of trade going to Europe how will this affect our

:13:40.:13:43.

export earnings? Will it lead to job losses or will the weak pound offset

:13:44.:13:49.

any of those expected losses? And could we find markets elsewhere in

:13:50.:13:53.

the world? Here to discuss all of that with me are three experts in

:13:54.:13:56.

their own right. Firstly we have Adam Price who is the party's shadow

:13:57.:14:04.

finance and economy spokesperson. Adam spent time between parliaments

:14:05.:14:08.

in the field of innovation so he can provide you with well experienced

:14:09.:14:13.

knowledge in this field. As can Nigel Copner on the right of me.

:14:14.:14:18.

Many of you will know Nigel from his heroic efforts in nearly capturing

:14:19.:14:23.

Blaenau Gwent four Plaid Cymru in May's assembly elections. Next time.

:14:24.:14:32.

He is also the founder member of research and innovation centre. The

:14:33.:14:40.

chair of electronics at the University of South Wales and has

:14:41.:14:44.

worked in Silicon Valley. And lastly we have Scott Pansy who is a

:14:45.:14:52.

fourth-generation steelworker. As a shop steward he can also bring his

:14:53.:14:57.

union if as well as a view from inside the industry. If you could

:14:58.:15:05.

all please welcome our guests. I am going to start with Nigel. We are

:15:06.:15:11.

all talking about Brexit but we can not talk about it. What is Brexit

:15:12.:15:21.

mean for Welsh industry? We were all taken by surprise with the result.

:15:22.:15:26.

We are concerned about the convergence funding loss which is

:15:27.:15:30.

half a billion a year to Wales. Although that money might not have

:15:31.:15:33.

been spent in the best way to encourage businesses it was there.

:15:34.:15:40.

We are also aware that Wales exports about 30 billion a year, 35% to

:15:41.:15:48.

Europe. Is that going to be jeopardised? Do we go for a soft or

:15:49.:15:54.

hard Brexit? I refer you back to the great depression when Hoover brought

:15:55.:16:00.

in a tariff and created a trade war and the tariffs escalated as a

:16:01.:16:03.

result the recession turned into a great depression.

:16:04.:16:09.

There is no doubt we need trade agreements within the single market

:16:10.:16:17.

after Brexit. It is widely recognised, with all the concerns we

:16:18.:16:23.

have around Brexit, one of the key issues for the economy going forward

:16:24.:16:28.

is the uncertainty. It is the lack of confidence. That overrides most

:16:29.:16:34.

things. And I think it is absolutely essential that Plaid takes a lead to

:16:35.:16:40.

ensure we have the courage, a coherent plan, and create certainty

:16:41.:16:44.

in the transitioning, moving out of Europe. That is absolutely

:16:45.:16:48.

essential, and within that I obviously support the soft Brexit

:16:49.:16:51.

route and being part of the single market. Thank you, Adam. Obviously,

:16:52.:17:01.

we are a very export intensive economy. We are almost unique in

:17:02.:17:11.

having such an incredibly large trade surplus in goods at a time, of

:17:12.:17:17.

course, when the UK as a whole has a massive trade deficit and has done

:17:18.:17:21.

over many decades. We are still positive exporters, which

:17:22.:17:29.

contributes about 10% to our overall GPA. So having a hit on that would

:17:30.:17:36.

have an immediate effect in terms of Welsh prosperity. We must protect

:17:37.:17:41.

that position, which is why being inside the single market is -- is of

:17:42.:17:45.

such vital strategic importance to Welsh industry. In practical terms,

:17:46.:17:50.

if we are outside the customs union, then you face tariffs and everything

:17:51.:17:55.

else, and by the way, you are in the WTO then, which is actually a far

:17:56.:18:00.

more -- far more likely to challenge things like subsidies. People think

:18:01.:18:04.

if you are outside the EU you don't have state aid problems. The World

:18:05.:18:09.

Trade Organisation has state aid rules which are much more stringent

:18:10.:18:13.

than those in the EU. The EU have been able to carve out of position

:18:14.:18:17.

in relation to those, and if you are not in the single market, what

:18:18.:18:22.

happens, practically, as an exporter, your goods will arrive at

:18:23.:18:26.

the borders of the European Union, and because they do not conform to

:18:27.:18:32.

the regulations and standards, whether a piece of electronics

:18:33.:18:40.

Raqqa, etc, than they will be held back for two or three weeks possibly

:18:41.:18:43.

while they are sent off to be tested. Every batch would have to be

:18:44.:18:48.

tested by the National standards Institute of the country in

:18:49.:18:52.

question, and does Nigel will know, we live in a world of just in time

:18:53.:18:58.

logistics. When you are involved in these very, very intricate

:18:59.:19:03.

international global supply chains, actually having something waiting in

:19:04.:19:06.

some port in the Netherlands for three weeks, you are not going to

:19:07.:19:12.

get that contract again. If you are an intermediate supplier, as a small

:19:13.:19:16.

manufacturing firm, you can forget it. Why would the original equipment

:19:17.:19:22.

Manufacturer by themselves that kind of headache? And all the customs

:19:23.:19:26.

papers of course would have to be done on top of that. It will be a

:19:27.:19:31.

massive headache to every export business in Wales, and we would take

:19:32.:19:34.

a massive hit on our prosperity, which is why we have two insist that

:19:35.:19:39.

Wales remains within the single market. And if the deal is being

:19:40.:19:43.

offered to Scotland and Northern Ireland as has been suggested, maybe

:19:44.:19:48.

we need to create a Celtic union, where, if England wants to be

:19:49.:19:52.

outside the single market, than I am a Democrat, that is a choice they

:19:53.:19:58.

make, and certainly if there is an opportunity for us to bring me on

:19:59.:20:01.

side we should take it as well -- bring Theresa May on side. This is

:20:02.:20:10.

Adam's Way! Moving to Scott. What does Brexit mean for us? It has

:20:11.:20:17.

added more uncertainty to an already difficult situation for us. Did many

:20:18.:20:21.

steelworkers vote for Brexit, your colleagues? That was a worrying

:20:22.:20:26.

thing, we had Government and trade unions advising us all to vote

:20:27.:20:32.

Remain, but surprisingly, a lot of steel workers voted out. They have

:20:33.:20:38.

their own reasons, but some of them still regret their decision, but it

:20:39.:20:43.

is adding uncertainty to us. What was alarming to me was, the

:20:44.:20:49.

prestigious product we produce is for Nissan in nota motives. That is

:20:50.:20:56.

what we are proud of and where our profit margins. 62% in Sunderland

:20:57.:21:01.

voted to Leave but 8000 work in the Nissan plant. Nissan have said if we

:21:02.:21:05.

are not in the single market they would look to leave Britain which

:21:06.:21:08.

would have a knock-on effect for steel, but that is an example of

:21:09.:21:12.

manufacturing as a whole. These companies, once we are not in the

:21:13.:21:15.

single market they will not think twice, they will be gone. This is

:21:16.:21:19.

really worrying from the steel point of view, but for the UK and Wales,

:21:20.:21:25.

we are in real trouble there. Also from steel, a large present about --

:21:26.:21:30.

percentage of the steel we produce is exported to Europe so we use the

:21:31.:21:33.

single market and could lose all those orders. Again it is adding

:21:34.:21:40.

more uncertainty. We don't know what the future holds, but I agree, I

:21:41.:21:46.

think we need to stay in the single market. That was Bethan Jenkins and

:21:47.:21:51.

others on the future of the steel industry here in Wales. Our

:21:52.:21:55.

political editor Nick Servini if our eyes and ears at the conference.

:21:56.:22:00.

Good morning, Nick. Pretty strong words this morning both ways on this

:22:01.:22:04.

possibility of a coalition between Plaid and Labour. There have been,

:22:05.:22:11.

and I think it will be an interesting day today. Fair to say,

:22:12.:22:16.

slightly muted atmosphere here so far. A range of factors, probably a

:22:17.:22:22.

reflection of uncertainty surrounding Brexit, also probably

:22:23.:22:24.

reflecting on the fact that we haven't heard from Leanne Wood yet.

:22:25.:22:28.

This time last year at this stage of the conference we had had a speech

:22:29.:22:32.

from Leanne Wood in Aberystwyth and Nicola Sturgeon here addressing

:22:33.:22:36.

Plaid Cymru. None of that yet, we will have Leanne Wood this

:22:37.:22:43.

afternoon. She didn't want to clash with the Aberfan commemorations

:22:44.:22:45.

yesterday, understandably I suppose. A lot of action here today and you

:22:46.:22:54.

are right, it kicked off with Neal McEvoy, an Assembly Member who

:22:55.:22:56.

brings something different to the party, there is no one quite like

:22:57.:23:00.

Neal McEvoy in Plaid Cymru are possibly ever has been in the past,

:23:01.:23:05.

and with regards to the issue of the coalition, let me give you a very

:23:06.:23:10.

flavour of some of the things he said. He talks about a small

:23:11.:23:14.

minority within Plaid Cymru interested in going into coalition

:23:15.:23:19.

with Labour, and quotes "They would take one for the team." But he is

:23:20.:23:24.

very much on the opposite side of the fence on this, saying they

:23:25.:23:31.

should grade them down, challenge Labour, so at the moment we have

:23:32.:23:38.

this situation where the party is in opposition, abrasively so,

:23:39.:23:40.

aggressive in its criticism, but at the same time striking deals with

:23:41.:23:44.

Labour and as we saw a couple of days ago, the biggest budget deal

:23:45.:23:48.

the party has ever done with Labour, but Neil McEvoy is the view that

:23:49.:23:52.

Plaid should have nothing to do with Labour, and they are not, in his

:23:53.:23:57.

words, "A pressure group designed to move Labour money around the system

:23:58.:24:04.

so fundamental reappraisal of where the current situation is. So the

:24:05.:24:10.

question is, is he representative? No doubt you are talking about it

:24:11.:24:14.

already and will lead out throughout the day, how representative he is of

:24:15.:24:20.

. If you look at conference, in terms of the motions going across

:24:21.:24:27.

before, there aren't a huge stage of motions at the moment pushing

:24:28.:24:30.

towards coalitions and there aren't a huge swathe of motions in the Neil

:24:31.:24:35.

McEvoy direction, either. Wanting to roll back and have nothing to do

:24:36.:24:38.

with Labour. Which would suggest maybe Leanne Wood's position at the

:24:39.:24:44.

moment, and the current leadership, is broadly reflective of where the

:24:45.:24:50.

party years. But of course that could change. Primarily, I think,

:24:51.:24:54.

because of Brexit, and that really is what everyone is talking about.

:24:55.:24:59.

And on Brexit I'm sure Leanne Wood will flush them of these ideas out

:25:00.:25:05.

this afternoon -- flesh out. Key to Plaid 's stances maintaining

:25:06.:25:12.

membership of the single market and also the Welsh Government or Wales

:25:13.:25:15.

having a representative at the top table when it comes to negotiations.

:25:16.:25:23.

The survey would suggest no on both accounts, no says, or no membership

:25:24.:25:31.

of the single market, and no reputation for Wales on the top

:25:32.:25:35.

table. Do they have a plan B? That is right, it is very difficult. I

:25:36.:25:42.

think the call to be on the top table, to some extent, expected. The

:25:43.:25:47.

other call is that a real fight for the constitutional side of things

:25:48.:25:51.

with the fear of a power grab, with the powers that come from Brussels,

:25:52.:25:55.

when they go to Westminster, do they go to Cardiff or not? And of course

:25:56.:25:59.

the single market and membership of it. Sian Gwenllian this morning, AM

:26:00.:26:11.

for Arfon, was talking about the difference between Plaid and Labour

:26:12.:26:15.

on this. It is one of the most divisive issues in terms of the post

:26:16.:26:20.

Brexit responds in Welsh politics at the moment, so Carwyn Jones's

:26:21.:26:23.

fundamental premise, and I think he is similar to Theresia me on this,

:26:24.:26:31.

Wales 52% Leave, if it tells us anything, it is a message from the

:26:32.:26:35.

public to politicians that something needs to be done about immigration.

:26:36.:26:40.

That of course sends you down a route which means continued

:26:41.:26:43.

membership of the single market looks very difficult. And so, Plaid

:26:44.:26:49.

are, and I have heard it so many times yesterday, speech after

:26:50.:26:55.

speech, Rhun Ap Iorwerth, Hywel Williams, staking this claim of

:26:56.:27:01.

membership of the single market, it is a fundamental belief for Plaid in

:27:02.:27:05.

the way they will approach these negotiations, but of course it does

:27:06.:27:09.

mean giving up control on immigration, so then, inevitably,

:27:10.:27:13.

you ask the question, are they in denial, Abe in touch with the

:27:14.:27:18.

reality of the majority of people in Wales who surely, when they voted to

:27:19.:27:22.

leave the EU, did so knowing full well that it would entail leaving

:27:23.:27:28.

the single market as well? And what Leanne Wood has been saying, and no

:27:29.:27:32.

doubt will reflect in his speech later, was that that there was all

:27:33.:27:38.

kinds of reasons people voted to Leave, paddling pools in your local

:27:39.:27:43.

area, disillusionment with politics and immigration as well, but to

:27:44.:27:47.

somehow pick out immigration as the main area that needs to be dealt

:27:48.:27:51.

with is, in her assessment of it, the wrong thing to do, so as a

:27:52.:27:56.

result, retaining single market membership is still doable. The

:27:57.:28:02.

problem she will have is, this idea that immigration is equivalent to

:28:03.:28:05.

issues like austerity and other concerns, when she knows, and you

:28:06.:28:11.

and I were out with cameras in the referendum campaign, so many people

:28:12.:28:15.

in Wales were talking about concerns about immigration. Nick, thank you,

:28:16.:28:18.

you have teed up our next contributor very neatly, because...

:28:19.:28:26.

I thought we were going to talking about Brexit. We will go elsewhere.

:28:27.:28:32.

Plaid Cymru happened the first time two police and crime commissioners,

:28:33.:28:37.

Arfon Jones in North Wales, and in his speech yesterday he outlined his

:28:38.:28:43.

priorities. TRANSLATION: Reducing reoffending is one of the main areas

:28:44.:28:47.

of policing, and in order to do that, we must work in partnership to

:28:48.:28:53.

prevent crime. One of the pioneering projects in this respect is a

:28:54.:29:00.

project to help children where their parents are imprisoned. Resettlement

:29:01.:29:04.

of prisoners back in the community, and preventing reoffending, it

:29:05.:29:09.

depends very much on the help offered to children and families. If

:29:10.:29:17.

they can re-establish relationships, they are less likely to offend

:29:18.:29:22.

again. There is another good reason for helping the children of

:29:23.:29:29.

prisoners. 65% of children with a father in prison go on to offend

:29:30.:29:34.

themselves. Children with a parent in prison are also twice as likely

:29:35.:29:39.

as other children to have mental health problems. And also, they are

:29:40.:29:44.

less likely to do well in school, and more likely to be excluded.

:29:45.:29:50.

There is an opportunity to break this vicious circle, and we shall

:29:51.:29:59.

seek to ensure that services are available to break this. One of the

:30:00.:30:03.

best example of this is what is going on in Parc Prison in Bridgend.

:30:04.:30:12.

In conclusion, policing is changing all the time. Technology changes

:30:13.:30:17.

mean we can respond quickly and rapidly, but it also means they run

:30:18.:30:21.

new sorts of crime, cyber crime and so on. Things have changed so much

:30:22.:30:25.

that the likelihood of suffering from online crime is more than I

:30:26.:30:35.

would call traditional crime. I believe strongly that policing must

:30:36.:30:44.

move with the times, and we must therefore move with the times in

:30:45.:30:49.

technology to enable our front-line staff. People want to see police

:30:50.:30:53.

officers in the community. This gives them more confidence, although

:30:54.:30:57.

of course, there is a lot of work to be done in technology as well. In a

:30:58.:31:03.

time of cuts, we must all use our time wisely, well and effectively,

:31:04.:31:08.

without forgetting the things that are really important to our

:31:09.:31:10.

communities. Thank you for listening.

:31:11.:31:16.

Everybody else is talking about Brexit so let's talk about it for a

:31:17.:31:24.

few minutes. On the Plaid Cymru wish list it seems as though little of it

:31:25.:31:28.

will be delivered by the UK Government. Membership of the single

:31:29.:31:33.

market and a seat at the top table. How problematic is that? I think you

:31:34.:31:38.

have to go back one step before that to realise why Plaid Cymru is taking

:31:39.:31:44.

the stands it is. Regardless of the economic arguments the point is the

:31:45.:31:51.

party asked to accept the result of the referendum but they are also

:31:52.:31:55.

representing their supporters and if you look at the academic work that

:31:56.:31:59.

has been done since the referendum what you'll find is that Plaid Cymru

:32:00.:32:03.

voters were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the UK -- in the EU.

:32:04.:32:17.

So they are representing if you like the remain constituency in Wales and

:32:18.:32:22.

are looking for the minimum possible Brexit because that is what this

:32:23.:32:26.

borders on. Carwyn Jones on the other hand is dealing with a

:32:27.:32:30.

situation where yes the majority of Labour voters vote to remain but

:32:31.:32:36.

there was also a substantial minority particularly in traditional

:32:37.:32:38.

Labour strongholds who voted to leave and that is why his stance has

:32:39.:32:42.

been driven by a different political set of questions. So Plaid Cymru

:32:43.:32:47.

pitching themselves as the party for the remain as, not only depending on

:32:48.:32:53.

their own voters to stay loyal to them but also trying to entice

:32:54.:32:56.

people from outside the party in because of the stands they are

:32:57.:33:02.

taking? That's right but again when needs to take a bit of care because

:33:03.:33:08.

despite the polls and the academic work shows that Plaid Cymru voters

:33:09.:33:12.

were in favour of remain you have to look at some of the places where

:33:13.:33:15.

Plaid Cymru did very well like the Rhondda and Blaenau Gwent in the

:33:16.:33:19.

assembly elections aren't those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave.

:33:20.:33:25.

So it's not quite as straightforward as it appeals -- appears from the

:33:26.:33:33.

research. Plaid Cymru are not in the sort of quandary that the

:33:34.:33:36.

Conservatives or Labour Ardennes where they have a large minority of

:33:37.:33:39.

their voters that they need to appease. And to what extent is

:33:40.:33:46.

Leanne Wood's hand that much weaker than that of Nicola Sturgeon bearing

:33:47.:33:54.

in mind the result in Wales was very different to the one in Scotland.

:33:55.:33:58.

Leanne Wood's and is incredibly weak. Nicola Sturgeon is the First

:33:59.:34:03.

Minister and is running the government and she is running the

:34:04.:34:07.

government of the country which voted to remain. So there is no

:34:08.:34:13.

comparison between that and a leader of a party that is not in government

:34:14.:34:18.

who is trying to influence a Welsh Government which does not have a

:34:19.:34:22.

very strong hand anyway because of the way Wales voted in the

:34:23.:34:26.

referendum. She is in a weak position but Plaid Cymru would say

:34:27.:34:29.

we can't sing nothing about this, we have to see what we think. The

:34:30.:34:32.

accusation levelled at them is that they are shedding their ears to the

:34:33.:34:38.

concerns of people on the doorstep about free movement of people. We

:34:39.:34:43.

heard Adam Price said he only had two conversations about the matter

:34:44.:34:48.

during the referendum campaign. You can say they were shutting very as

:34:49.:34:52.

and there is an element of that but on the other hand it was 52 against

:34:53.:35:03.

48 and you can't assume that all 52 voted that way because of

:35:04.:35:10.

immigration. That is not the case. So there is wriggle room for the

:35:11.:35:15.

party but there is a question come next May when we have local

:35:16.:35:19.

elections of how this sort of stance will go down in places that Plaid

:35:20.:35:23.

Cymru controlled the past like Rhondda Cynon Taff and Caerphilly.

:35:24.:35:27.

It will be interesting to see the Ukip fills some of the space Plaid

:35:28.:35:33.

Cymru took in those areas. We have heard from one council leader and

:35:34.:35:36.

there is another one on stage now, the leader of Gwynedd cancel. --

:35:37.:35:42.

cancel. The period has been rich for

:35:43.:35:59.

Gwynedd, four Plaid Cymru and for Wales. And I believe that experience

:36:00.:36:06.

from this period of government that it holds us to consider. The first

:36:07.:36:12.

thing to stresses that the ambition of all political parties at whatever

:36:13.:36:19.

level is to be in government. That in order to implement a programme of

:36:20.:36:23.

policies which will create a better world for our citizens. We make a

:36:24.:36:29.

difference by leading and winning power and acting. Being in

:36:30.:36:36.

opposition can be comfortable in short -- I am sure. And a nice place

:36:37.:36:46.

to be but in Gwynedd we have never decided that this is our aim. We

:36:47.:36:51.

want to be in power. It has not been easy. But government should not be

:36:52.:37:03.

easy. It means being brave, being enterprising, being creative,

:37:04.:37:06.

smashing old systems and building new ones. Discussing politics and

:37:07.:37:13.

ideas is completely meaningless unless it leads to a programme of

:37:14.:37:20.

action in government. And governing for the majority. Not a minority. A

:37:21.:37:28.

discourse with the whole population, speaking with everyone not just the

:37:29.:37:33.

selected few. Not campaigning for the benefits of any elite but

:37:34.:37:40.

creating a context where everyone can be included and fulfil their

:37:41.:37:46.

potential. The danger with political parties always is for them to speak

:37:47.:37:54.

with ourselves and ourselves only. To build a consensus around the

:37:55.:37:59.

truth that we create campaigning and creating policies that comfort us

:38:00.:38:05.

that the reality of life can be quite different. Our intention is to

:38:06.:38:13.

recognise the contribution of everyone and create a Gwynedd for

:38:14.:38:18.

tomorrow, a Gwynedd which recognises the traditions of yesterday but

:38:19.:38:21.

which is out also in order to create the new Gwynedd. To continue to

:38:22.:38:28.

develop and step forward confidently we need to reinvent ourselves

:38:29.:38:34.

continually, to challenge ourselves, to question ourselves and to create

:38:35.:38:44.

new traditions. We must look at the mirror of Gwynedd that we are

:38:45.:38:50.

seeking to create. Just and fair for everyone regardless. We define

:38:51.:38:57.

ourselves as a Plaid Cymru council in Gwynedd according to what we are

:38:58.:39:03.

in favour not what we are against, what we seek to build in Gwynedd. We

:39:04.:39:13.

don't want a fort in the West but a lighthouse for the whole of Wales.

:39:14.:39:19.

Gwynedd today is a collection of communities which is a microcosm of

:39:20.:39:23.

the rest of Wales. Communities in needs, and the pressure, but

:39:24.:39:26.

communities are full of opportunity to create hope we must not satisfied

:39:27.:39:33.

ourselves with recreating the past but show the possibilities of a new

:39:34.:39:38.

world. Conservatism is not the basis for our future but enterprise and

:39:39.:39:48.

confidence and all this with our basic belief in justice. That is why

:39:49.:39:54.

we have pushed the boundaries of the Welsh language in Gwynedd in order

:39:55.:39:58.

to create a sustainable future for it. Since its establishment about

:39:59.:40:05.

6000 children and young people have been through our pioneering language

:40:06.:40:11.

centres creating new Welsh speakers. Yes, 6000. That is the third largest

:40:12.:40:20.

town in Gwynedd by now. The first centre was established in the 1980s

:40:21.:40:25.

and since then they have made a key contribution to ensuring that

:40:26.:40:27.

children and young people who don't speak Welsh have an opportunity to

:40:28.:40:33.

embrace the language. And with the challenge of promoting the use of

:40:34.:40:36.

Welsh amongst young children and young people in our schools the

:40:37.:40:41.

Gwynedd schools language charter was established. This is a scheme which

:40:42.:40:46.

gives ownership of the use of the language socially with the children

:40:47.:40:50.

and the young people themselves forming it. Creating a context which

:40:51.:40:56.

showed an of all backgrounds can feel confident in speaking. Welsh

:40:57.:41:03.

will succeed as we create a positive and hopeful context for it. Where

:41:04.:41:12.

everyone can be a champion whatever his or her skills audibility.

:41:13.:41:19.

Indeed, some of the non-Welsh speakers are some of the best

:41:20.:41:23.

champions as they support their children in becoming bilingual. His

:41:24.:41:31.

-- the history of Welsh and D would be very different word of the

:41:32.:41:34.

contribution of our schools, governors, teachers appearance and

:41:35.:41:41.

children. We have to thank them all but we need to be thankful also that

:41:42.:41:45.

we have had the opportunity to implement progressive policies,

:41:46.:41:51.

policies that some other councils in Wales are now emanating. Gwynedd has

:41:52.:42:00.

adopted the language as the mainland which of administration, as a major

:42:01.:42:04.

employer we have an opportunity to focus on this. The Welsh line with

:42:05.:42:14.

will become alive as we use it in all situations. This is how to

:42:15.:42:19.

create a natural community for the Welshman which with the positive

:42:20.:42:24.

support for workforce at all levels across the council. And it's not a

:42:25.:42:31.

matter of making the mainland and institution but rather a recognition

:42:32.:42:38.

that our workforce of 6000 live in our communities and make a key

:42:39.:42:41.

contribution to the future of the county. Ensuring advantageous fact

:42:42.:42:47.

is for the language within the Council has an influence on the

:42:48.:42:50.

status of the language in our towns and villages. It creates confidence

:42:51.:42:59.

and expectations. We say to the rest of the public sector in the county

:43:00.:43:06.

to follow our example and implement policies to promote the language in

:43:07.:43:11.

all aspects of the institutions. Gwynedd cancel can achieve much but

:43:12.:43:16.

we can achieve even more in partnership with the rest of the

:43:17.:43:20.

public sector locally and similarly with the rest of the councillors of

:43:21.:43:26.

Wales. Our message is that we can make a difference, we can be

:43:27.:43:31.

champions for the Welsh and which, you can create hope for the Welsh

:43:32.:43:37.

and which. It is possible to create a change for the better and if the

:43:38.:43:42.

Welsh language is to continue as the mainland which of our communities as

:43:43.:43:46.

well as in the council certainly the challenge facing us is to ensure

:43:47.:43:54.

infrastructure for the language and create those social conditions that

:43:55.:43:57.

we need in order for the language to prosper and ensure a supply of

:43:58.:44:03.

affordable housing, varied good quality jobs to promote a vibrant

:44:04.:44:12.

social life. The leader of Gwynedd cancel their talking live on stage.

:44:13.:44:15.

Let's head out of the conference hall for a minute. Let's see who our

:44:16.:44:26.

reporter is chatting to. I am joined by two more familiar faces from

:44:27.:44:29.

Plaid Cymru, Jill Evans a member of the European Parliament and the

:44:30.:44:34.

Griffith the Assembly Member and spokesman on education. Let's talk

:44:35.:44:40.

about the party's stance on wrecks it. Let's have a personal take from

:44:41.:44:46.

you on what it's been like being a member of the European Parliament

:44:47.:44:49.

from the UK and appeared yet since the referendum. In the sense that I

:44:50.:44:54.

am still there representing the people of Wales and will be until

:44:55.:45:02.

the day the UK leaves the EU, the whole focus of my work has not

:45:03.:45:05.

changed which is to get the best possible deal for the people of

:45:06.:45:11.

Wales from the EU. But the whole context has changed. Within the

:45:12.:45:18.

Parliament certainly there is a lot of goodwill and a lot of support and

:45:19.:45:21.

people are very sad that Wales will be leaving. There is certainly no

:45:22.:45:27.

animosity. Do you feel marginalised? Not that the moment. I think people

:45:28.:45:34.

want to still include Wales and summary people have said to me that

:45:35.:45:38.

Europe won't be the same without Wales. The value our input, not just

:45:39.:45:45.

what Wales has got out of Europe but also what we have contributed. I

:45:46.:45:50.

think sadness is the overwhelming feeling.

:45:51.:46:00.

In terms of the Brexit negotiations you are clear that you would like

:46:01.:46:06.

the Welsh Government to make the argument to stay as a Member of the

:46:07.:46:12.

single market. Tied up with that is continued free movement of people.

:46:13.:46:15.

Is that your interpretation, would that remain at the same level of

:46:16.:46:21.

movement of people around the single market? I can't see a situation

:46:22.:46:25.

where full membership of that market wouldn't would be allowed -- would

:46:26.:46:33.

be allowed without allowing other aspects and you can't have your cake

:46:34.:46:38.

and eat it. That is the analogy. I feel passionately in terms of

:46:39.:46:43.

education particularly, we have 5500 EU students in Wales accounting for

:46:44.:46:48.

nearly 7500 full-time equivalent jobs in Wales so not only on a

:46:49.:46:54.

cultural level in terms of academic contribution, but economically as

:46:55.:46:57.

well, let's think about the 7500 jobs in Wales because of those EU

:46:58.:47:03.

students. So you say maintaining the same levels of EU immigration would

:47:04.:47:06.

be a good thing, but doesn't that go against what people voted on from

:47:07.:47:13.

Wales in the referendum on leaving the EU? I think the reasons people

:47:14.:47:18.

voted are very complex, but there is no doubt that the free movement of

:47:19.:47:24.

people as benefited Wales. But people were concerned about

:47:25.:47:28.

immigration, weren't they? People are concerned about immigration, but

:47:29.:47:34.

I don't think we had a real debate about the problems there are in

:47:35.:47:38.

Wales, and there are many problems, of course, there are very poor

:47:39.:47:43.

communities in Wales, and they feel disenfranchised, and they were

:47:44.:47:47.

making a protest against the establishment. But the solution to

:47:48.:47:53.

those problems is not in restricting free movement or even necessarily

:47:54.:47:59.

concerned with Europe. You might be accused, really, if ignoring the

:48:00.:48:03.

message given by the Welsh people here on immigration. You are saying

:48:04.:48:09.

you know better, that those concerns shouldn't be addressed. I am not

:48:10.:48:12.

saying we know better. I am saying if you look at the statistics and

:48:13.:48:19.

the facts, immigrants make net contribution to the tax take in this

:48:20.:48:24.

country so off we are seriously need to understand the implications to

:48:25.:48:26.

close our borders the way some people would like us to do. I am not

:48:27.:48:32.

willing to do that because I believe it would have a huge impact, not

:48:33.:48:36.

just economically but the way we provide many services in this

:48:37.:48:40.

country. So it wasn't on the ballot paper and neither was leaving the

:48:41.:48:45.

single market, by the way. So let's not jump to conclusions. I

:48:46.:48:48.

understand there are concerns but I would also say, look beyond the

:48:49.:48:52.

headlines on the sound bites, because there are real issues at

:48:53.:48:56.

stake. Can I ask you both briefly about an issue that has been

:48:57.:49:03.

discussed on the main stage this morning, that of coalition and your

:49:04.:49:05.

relationship with Labour. Neil McEvoy doesn't want cooperation at

:49:06.:49:15.

the moment or coalition, Llyr Gruffydd, where do you stand? At the

:49:16.:49:19.

moment I am happy with the arrangement we have. We need an open

:49:20.:49:22.

mind because a lot is changing very quickly politically in this country

:49:23.:49:25.

at the moment so we mustn't rule it out, but if you look at what we

:49:26.:49:29.

managed to deliver at the moment, more than any opposition since

:49:30.:49:33.

devolution, we will do all rights. Jill Evans, would you be happy to

:49:34.:49:37.

see coalition if that's what circumstances demanded? Our main

:49:38.:49:42.

duty as The Party of Wales is to assure that in these really

:49:43.:49:45.

uncertain times we get the best possible deal for Wales, the people,

:49:46.:49:50.

the communities of Wales and the future, and so we always have to

:49:51.:49:54.

look at that and how best we deliver that. Jill Evans, Llyr Gruffydd,

:49:55.:49:59.

thank you very much. Back to you. Thank you, Bethan. Plenty more in

:50:00.:50:05.

our programme this afternoon. Brexit and speculation over a snapped UK

:50:06.:50:12.

general election were themes for the Arfon MP Hywel Williams who spoke

:50:13.:50:19.

yesterday. The Tories are always talking about patriotism and the

:50:20.:50:23.

values that are above all that, but there is nothing patriotic or

:50:24.:50:27.

virtuous about the way they behave. And I will say this in a language

:50:28.:50:33.

they will understand. Despite all their fine words, it is unpatriotic

:50:34.:50:38.

for the Tories to undermine jobs, economic growth, equality and fair

:50:39.:50:41.

treatment, and the future life chances of the people of these

:50:42.:50:46.

islands, through their xenophobic rhetoric and there are professional

:50:47.:50:51.

pursuits of a hard Brexit. Then they divisive nationalists. Brexit means

:50:52.:50:58.

Brexit, says the Prime Minister. We will secure the best deal possible.

:50:59.:51:04.

One slogan as meaningless as next. Last night, she said that until we

:51:05.:51:09.

leave, Britain will remain at the heart of the EU. All the more

:51:10.:51:14.

effectively to tear it out, I suppose. In fact, with Scotland,

:51:15.:51:19.

unsurprisingly, heading for a UK exit anyway, the Tory position now

:51:20.:51:24.

seems to be for dumping the single market, and making our own trade

:51:25.:51:30.

deals. Well, what about Wales and our ?5 billion trade surplus? How

:51:31.:51:33.

many hundreds of deals, and with whom first? With Wales's

:51:34.:51:40.

international markets or a cosy setup for the City of London? How

:51:41.:51:47.

long will this take? The thing-mac- Canada trade deal negotiation went

:51:48.:51:51.

on for seven years, now scuppered by the Belgian region of one linear --

:51:52.:51:57.

be you- Canada trade deal. But the Tories reckon they can secure a new

:51:58.:52:05.

deal in just two years. Conference, this is a regime of crisis. The

:52:06.:52:11.

pound plummeting, inflation looming, income static, employment uncertain,

:52:12.:52:17.

productivity low, investment withheld, and the very integrity of

:52:18.:52:21.

the United Kingdom in peril, and in all of this, the Tories are

:52:22.:52:24.

untroubled by their friends in the elite media. At the other end of the

:52:25.:52:31.

scale, let's just look at the simple, possibly real, example. Say

:52:32.:52:37.

you are a farmer and you want to buy a new tractor. Farm payments will

:52:38.:52:41.

cover you until 2020, but you reasonably need to look ahead beyond

:52:42.:52:47.

2020. Will there be money after 2020? Will it be paid per hectare or

:52:48.:52:52.

per animal? Will Wales get a share based on the start of the work --

:52:53.:52:55.

size of the Welsh farming economy, that is the need for Miller, or on

:52:56.:53:02.

the Barnett formula, around 5% based on population? Who will decide,

:53:03.:53:12.

London or Cardiff? Will the Welsh family farm be treated on the same

:53:13.:53:15.

basis as the vast agribusinesses of East Anglia? Now, Dubai that

:53:16.:53:17.

tractor? And if you don't, what does that mean for the tractor seller and

:53:18.:53:22.

the tractor maker, and the steelmakers from Port Talbot we

:53:23.:53:25.

heard from this morning, and the engine plant and everybody else? Not

:53:26.:53:30.

so simple example after all, but there are no answers. Mrs may has

:53:31.:53:35.

said she doesn't intend to give us a running commentary. Is that because

:53:36.:53:40.

she has a cunning plan but isn't telling, or is it because they are

:53:41.:53:46.

completely clueless? I'll let you answer. Now, last year, -- lustre, I

:53:47.:53:52.

want to talk about activism and a possible snap election next year.

:53:53.:53:56.

Mrs me has said there won't be won. We take our word. We have to plan, I

:53:57.:54:05.

think. Can I tell you I have great affection for Llangollen and the

:54:06.:54:09.

Clwyd South can sit constituency. I first stood here in 1999. In the

:54:10.:54:15.

last century! Persuaded to put my name forward by an old friend. He

:54:16.:54:21.

was very canny to phone me up and say, we came fourth last time, you

:54:22.:54:27.

won't have to do anything. I was selected. After driving through the

:54:28.:54:31.

rain from Kana from and spectacularly hitting a wall just up

:54:32.:54:38.

the road from here on returning, the very next Saturday, nine months

:54:39.:54:41.

before the election I was here again, that this time, hitting the

:54:42.:54:47.

doors. In the car park of the Wild Pheasant I met my new agent, the

:54:48.:54:52.

late and much missed councillor Barrie Price. Barry, I asked, where

:54:53.:54:59.

is everyone else? Well, he said, only the two of us. There are more,

:55:00.:55:04.

only it's just, well... We didn't expect you to start quite so soon.

:55:05.:55:10.

They did come out every following Saturday, and on weekdays as well,

:55:11.:55:15.

determined to make this our first general election, something special

:55:16.:55:21.

include South, and they succeeded. Thanks to them. OK, we did come

:55:22.:55:28.

second, but with a swing of 18.9% to Plaid, and we gave Labour the fright

:55:29.:55:34.

of its life. Barry always reckoned that with another couple of weeks we

:55:35.:55:40.

would have won it. And at the count, with Labour seats falling into our

:55:41.:55:44.

hands across our country, I had the exhilarating pleasure of saying, the

:55:45.:55:52.

fair wind of the West is blowing through Wales Today, to the delight

:55:53.:55:56.

of our people and a good few of the counting staff, and to the dismay of

:55:57.:56:03.

Labour. So, what's the point of this little story? Well, it is in the

:56:04.:56:09.

spirit and in the optimism of 1999, and even better, that we must now

:56:10.:56:18.

adopt a plan, must adopt our work and make all that planning and work

:56:19.:56:22.

our own. But we have to get on with it. Now, if we had to win. And when

:56:23.:56:30.

we must for Wales. We will win throughout Wales if we turn two

:56:31.:56:34.

activists here, four activists there, and four into eight and 18 to

:56:35.:56:41.

16, and do it now, getting onto it, working Street by street. Theresa

:56:42.:56:45.

May will perhaps call a snap election next spring. With a

:56:46.:56:50.

sweeping majority in England, and damaging hard Brexit. She will

:56:51.:56:54.

certainly find Labour still at each other's throats. There is no going

:56:55.:57:01.

back for them. But we will be ready. Ready to fight for Wales, ready to

:57:02.:57:06.

win for Wales. Friends, there is a huge challenge ahead of us, but

:57:07.:57:17.

here, in the territory of, we will meet the challenge and together we

:57:18.:57:19.

will go forward stronger. APPLAUSE The MP Hywel on the

:57:20.:57:28.

prospect of an early general election.

:57:29.:57:33.

Final word on our programme of the day, there has been quite a fight

:57:34.:57:37.

for Leanne Wood for one reason or another this week. How important is

:57:38.:57:41.

it an afternoon for her speaking live to conference delegates this

:57:42.:57:45.

afternoon? I think it is a big challenge for her. As we said at the

:57:46.:57:48.

beginning of the programme, reflected throughout the programme,

:57:49.:57:53.

there are two big issues, the Brexit issue, on which it is clear the

:57:54.:57:59.

party is united in a maximum Remain position if I can put it that way.

:58:00.:58:04.

So she will have to explain that to people watching at home, people who

:58:05.:58:13.

will be saying, hang on, Wales voted to leave. Then she has that thorny

:58:14.:58:16.

issue of coalition. We just heard is Dyfed Edwards talking about the

:58:17.:58:20.

importance of Government, local Government, saying you can be

:58:21.:58:24.

comfortable in opposition but you cannot do anything in opposition. I

:58:25.:58:29.

think it was a clear response to what Neil McEvoy said just now. So

:58:30.:58:36.

it is alive argument. Vaughan thank you very much. Vaughan will be back

:58:37.:58:39.

this afternoon. We will be back at 2pm this afternoon when we will hear

:58:40.:58:43.

live from the Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood. I hope you can join us

:58:44.:58:47.

then. Thanks for your company for the past couple of hours. Until this

:58:48.:58:51.

afternoon, goodbye from us all.

:58:52.:58:56.

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