Browse content similar to 21/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, we are in Salford, and welcome to Question Time. | :00:00. | :00:19. | |
And welcome to our audience tonight, who are from different | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
generations. One half under 30, and one half over 60. And welcome to the | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
panel, Conservative Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, Labour's | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
Shadow Justice Secretary, Sadiq Khan, Liberal Democrat Olly Grender, | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
adviser Tony Clegg until last year and is now in the House of Lords. -- | :00:39. | :00:48. | |
adviser to the Clague. -- Nick Clegg. | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
You may have noticed only three panellists, because sad to say how | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
two other panellists who we had asked to come, Daily Telegraph | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
writer Tim Stanley and broadcaster Joan Bakewell, were held up on a | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
train by a fire at the side of the track. They came halfway and then | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
went back, lost for ever, I suspect. When they turn up, we will have them | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
on. They will not be here tonight. Let's go to our first question. We | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
get a lot of questions about the divide between the generations and | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
the idea behind this programme is to explore those questions, and other | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
things, in terms of these two generations, under 30 and over 60. | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
The first from Anthony Robinson. Would the money spent on universal | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
benefits for wealthy pensioners be better used to help young people? | :01:45. | :01:55. | |
These are that list - free television licences, went a few, bus | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
passes, I test is, even being exempt from the under occupancy charge, the | :02:01. | :02:08. | |
bedroom tax. Olly Grender. I think, Anthony, yes, on the whole, they | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
should. Where I think it gets difficult is that we work on an | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
assumption that you all look very young and sprightly on this side of | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
the audience, and we work on an assumption that you are baby | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
boomers, and therefore reaping the rewards of a post-war era. This lot | :02:30. | :02:37. | |
here? They look very healthy? They look very healthy to me. And so I | :02:38. | :02:46. | |
think what we need to stop doing is to stop thinking of you as a | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
homogenous group. There was a recent report in the place I have just | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
become a member of, the House of Lords, which says that age is no | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
longer an indicator of need. For instance, you might be quite a | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
wealthy pensioner, or have a fewer assets, in terms of property, but be | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
quite lonely. Or you might have property, but be pretty poor in | :03:16. | :03:24. | |
terms of fuel poverty. Are you saying you cannot work out who to | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
give benefits to? My preference would be that wealthy pensioners do | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
give up bus passes. I would like to see that happen. But what I am | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
saying is that I think it is much harder than people assume to say, | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
you are all in this huge lump of quite wealthy. I do not think you | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
are. Jeremy Hunt, do you think you can define who are wealthy among | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
pensioners and then say, you do not need the money so we will give it to | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
that lot? You can do it, but the reason we are not doing it is | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
straightforward. David Cameron promised before the last election | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
that he would protect pension benefits. He is someone who believes | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
he must keep his word. Was it a wise promise and does it last until the | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
next election? Absolutely. And after, if you win it? He believes it | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
was right for the simple reason that we started the parliament with a | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
huge deficit to tackle and big decisions to take us to the fairest | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
way to tackle the deficit. We decided pensioners were different, | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
because they had passed the point in their life where they are able to | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
earn more money to make up for any shortfalls, so we should -- thought | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
it was right to make that decision. The worry is that if you start | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
chipping away at some entitlements, others may follow. We have been true | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
to our word, kept our promise on protecting the state pension and | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
pension benefits. In a very difficult period, that shows our | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
commitment to the people who would find it otherwise most difficult to | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
make up for their earnings. I have to admit, I am quite confused why we | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
constantly seem to be coming back to this question of whether these | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
benefits should be taken away from wealthier pensioners. Would this not | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
have been done years ago if it was easy? I understand it would be | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
difficult to administer the means test and give it to pensioners. I | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
think we should maybe stop dividing the groups against each other. | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
Eventually, young people are going to be pensioners, too. If we pay | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
into the system, we should expect something back. | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
Didn't David Cameron also promised not to top-down reorganise the NHS? | :05:46. | :05:55. | |
I think that is what is called a rhetorical question. The man on the | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
far left. Perhaps MPs should lead by example. There are MPs who have been | :06:03. | :06:11. | |
claiming gas and electric rounds on their expenses. Perhaps they could | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
donate that to pensioners. -- gas and electric allowance on expenses. | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
The definition of a wealthy pensioner now seems to be taken as | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
anybody who pays tax at the standard rate. That means they have an income | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
of slightly over ?10,500. That is a ludicrous mark. Where do you get | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
that from? Because the government do not like to means test, that is | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
where the line is likely to be drawn. I do not want to pick the old | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
against the young, but I think the question goes to a root issue, which | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
is that the British promise basically is that those who are the | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
next generation will do better than the current generation. The way that | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
the social contract works is that it is a pyramid where those at the | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
bottom who are working pay tax which goes towards your pension and you | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
get out what you put in. There is a big Rob, which is that this | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
generation will, for the first time in generations, the less well-off | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
than that generation. I am an MP in London. The average age of a | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
first-time property buyer in London is 38. We can have a discussion | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
about some universal benefits staying universal. The pension. I | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
think the bus pass is very important. Many older people need | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
the bus passed to see friends and family, it addresses loneliness and | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
get them out of the house. But Richard Branson and Alan Sugar do | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
not need it but are entitled to it, which is ridiculous. Richard Branson | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
does not use his bus pass and we are not paying for it. If you means test | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
and shimmers for the bus pass, they will not apply for it. They will be | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
stuck at home and it will be a huge cost to all of us. Rather than | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
pitting you against them, make sure these guys have a future. Get them | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
to work on the get them paying tax, get them paying national insurance | :08:10. | :08:18. | |
and rebuild the social contract. The problem we have with the bus passes | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
is that if the people did not use them, the buses would be empty. They | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
still have to run, they have a schedule to keep. They run whether | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
there are people on the bus or not will stop why take it from people | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
who could use it and fill the buses? I agree with Sadiq Khan on this. We | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
pay for bus passes for those who need them and we do not end up | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
paying for the richer pensioners anyway. I also agree that I think, | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
without wanting to dispute the premise of this programme, David, I | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
actually do not think there is any point in trying to set one age group | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
against another. All young people have parents and grandparents who | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
they want to see through their old age with dignity and respect. And | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
all grandparents want opportunities for their grandchildren. Everyone | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
wants to make sure we have a fair society where we take the right | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
decisions for the long-term, where everyone gets those opportunities. | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
We can do that, but it means difficult decisions in a difficult | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
period, when you have challenges ahead, as we all have, and those | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
challenges do change. I think one of the problems is that if you got on | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
the housing ladder at the age of these people and were lucky | :09:37. | :09:45. | |
enough... Which people? The older generation. If you have built up a | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
great deal of equity, and it is so much harder now to get into | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
housing, and yet that is the basis, in the UK, unfortunately, of a lot | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
of wealth. It is very hard. What we would need to do is to have quite a | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
good and lengthy discussion about how the older people give up some of | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
the equity, or release it to the younger people. For once, I agree | :10:09. | :10:18. | |
with the whole panel. It is not their fault. It is not our fault. It | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
is your fault. We were not the ones who sold off the council houses. We | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
were not the ones who promised no Jewish in fees and as soon as they | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
got anywhere near government sold out everybody who voted for them. | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
You are the ones who did it. It is your fault, isn't it? All right, you | :10:42. | :10:52. | |
made your point. The big question to grapple with, and we should be proud | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
of this, we are living much older than we were historically. There are | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
big questions about social care. We will be looking after our parents, | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
because they will live longer. Also, people who are older will have to | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
work longer. There are questions about when pension entitlement | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
should kick in. It is an issue for all of us because we will be old one | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
day as well. The idea of clashing generations is not the way. But | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
tinkering with bus passes, which is a huge lifeline for many pensioners, | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
is not the source of addressing these problems. These are big | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
questions and need big answers. There are many pensioners who want | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
to give up some of their benefits and have made that clear. You do not | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
have to take the bus pass, the winter fuel allowance. You do not | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
have to do any of these things. When you say there are people who want to | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
give up... There are people who are saying they do not want these things | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
and would like to give them up. Who are they? Maybe you are one of | :11:55. | :12:04. | |
them. No. I agree, who defines a wealthy pensioner. | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
I pay a small amount of income tax, but am I a wealthy pensioner? Could | :12:11. | :12:21. | |
you define a wealthy pensioner? The government can do these things. The | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
sums are much smaller. I have looked at these sums and they are much | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
smaller than you might think. Usually, most people's definition of | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
wealthy is the super wealthy. Actually, it does not have a huge | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
impact because they are often not claiming benefits in the first | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
place. The problem is that we have to recognise that we have a very | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
expensive benefits there will, and we have to take some difficult | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
decisions the fairest way to deal with it. And is it fair to do what | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
David Cameron is proposing for the next manifesto, abolishing benefits | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
for those under 25? Saving how much? What he has said is that everyone | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
under 25 should be earning all learning, and I think that is | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
absolutely right. It is completely wrong that someone can leave school, | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
sign-on, find a house or flat to rent, get housing benefit and then | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
start a life on the dole. I think it is immoral. We need a society that | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
does not allow that. If you look at Holland, they do not allow anyone to | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
claim benefit under the age of 27, and they have half the youth | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
unemployment that we have. They find a combination of studying and | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
working. That is a much better start for people. Are you in favour of | :13:44. | :13:53. | |
that policy? No. It is shocking that it is coming at a time to tell | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
people to earn, or to learn, when the minimum wage is so far below the | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
then -- the living wage. Zero our contracts and the failure to provide | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
people with work are skyrocketing, and fees for education have gone | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
through the roof. So earning and learning is becoming increasingly | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
difficult and you are telling people they have no safety net if they | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
fail. You are against abolishing the benefit. Let's move on because we | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
have a lot of questions. Are you in favour or against the proposal of | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
under 25-year-olds not getting benefit? I am against it. I am | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
against sweeping generalisations about young people. Many young | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
people do not get a good job. Why does the government not focus on | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
those who do not go to university, giving them vocational skills to get | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
a proper job? Why not put pressure on big businesses to provide | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
apprenticeships for young people? The way to reduce the benefit bill | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
is not to cut and fits but to get these guys into work, give them | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
apprenticeships, the skills they need. There are double the number of | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
apprenticeships than under Labour. You are telling stuff that is not | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
right. There are almost 1 million young people unemployed. In the last | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
quarter, the number of young people unemployed for more than a year went | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
up by 7000. There are record numbers not in employment, education or | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
training. They are desperate for education, desperate for employment. | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
They are in the right place, because in Salford, apprenticeship went up | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
90% since Labour left the government. You cut education | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
maintenance allowance, treble Jewish and fees, so do not be surprised if | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
these guys do not go to university or college. | :15:46. | :16:01. | |
We have one and a half million apprenticeships starting, double | :16:02. | :16:11. | |
under Labour. We are doing those who are not in education or employment, | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
that has gone down by 50,000, we are doing the things helping young | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
people. That is what counts. We have got a lot of questions. | :16:20. | :16:28. | |
You can join in the debate from home. The Red Button will let you | :16:29. | :16:47. | |
see what others are saying. Catherine Johnson, please. | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
If clever banks and bankers in London, and ethical banks mess up, | :16:55. | :17:07. | |
who can Manchester girl trust? It is shocking, the revelations at | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
the co-operative bank, and what has happened over the last few years. | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
Had things been different they would have taken 700 Lloyd's branches as | :17:23. | :17:33. | |
well, I welcome the enquiries. The Treasury Select Committee will be | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
doing an enquiry, also the Financial Conduct Authority. It is about | :17:37. | :17:46. | |
mutuals, not-for-profit, getting involved in provision for funeral | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
services, legal services, grocery stores, financial advice. Many | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
people back with it because it is ethical. When you bear in mind who | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
is bailing them out, people banking with them are concerned. We are very | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
proud of our association with them. Is it safe to bank with? | :18:10. | :18:18. | |
It is not for me to say. We have changed the way banks are | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
regulated. The fact they have not stepped in and gives me a source of | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
confidence. I am pleased we are looking into the affairs. To make a | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
sweeping assertion against the movement based on the actions of one | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
ex-chairman and what happened is very unfair. In this part of the | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
country in particular the co-operative movement doing a huge | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
source of good for the population. What can Manchester girl do? | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
If you have got savings, they are safe. The focus from the Prime | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
Minister should not be to score party political points, but making | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
job or worse, savers and investors are reassured their money is safe. | :19:11. | :19:28. | |
I agree with him. Mutuals are a brilliant concept. In a period where | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
people are mistrusting banks, the sort of trust you get with someone | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
like John Lewis, it gives you confidence in an organisation and we | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
should be encouraging different ownership models. We are doing a | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
study to see if there is anything we can learn in the NHS about the | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
mutuals movement. We should be thinking about the nearly 8 million | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
individual holders, most of these people are not wealthy, it is their | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
life savings invested in something they trusted, they got a dividend | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
last year, they haven't had one this year. They are wondering how on | :20:10. | :20:19. | |
earth the reverend flowers -- Reverend Flowers managed to become | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
chairman. There have been a lot of newspaper headlines but how can | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
somebody with so little knowledge of banking got to run a really | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
important into station -- institution? I hope, we are clearing | :20:37. | :20:45. | |
up a lot of mess after the banking crisis, but it does look like he got | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
that job because of his connections, some of them look like political | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
connections and I hope the Labour Party will be transparent. Their | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
responsibility is to those 8 million bondholders to make sure we get to | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
the truth they have a secure future for their savings and this can never | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
happen again. Is it a cheap political point to attach blame to | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
Labour? In fairness there were big | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
connections between the Labour Party and the Co-op bank. Labour has still | :21:18. | :21:28. | |
got its loans, the least it could do is be honest and transparent. | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
Would this have ever come to light if his past haven't been exposed by | :21:36. | :21:44. | |
a national newspaper? It is possible the answer is no. We | :21:45. | :21:53. | |
still rely on our newspapers as thriving and vibrant and exposing | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
organisations. For instance, we are seeing the trial, the Murdoch trial, | :22:00. | :22:08. | |
the trial looking at the telephone hacking, and that would not have | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
been exposed if it hadn't been for some of the newspapers. I think, as | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
a long-term customer of the Co-op myself, I'm disappointed in all of | :22:21. | :22:30. | |
this. What I really ask is how on earth after the banking crisis we | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
had in 2007, why is there still a kind of regulatory system that isn't | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
picking up these things? The one thing I would say is if we are going | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
to have for enquiries about what happened in the past, I am not | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
overly interested in that now, but what I am interested in is saving a | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
great bank, it is the kind of bank we need rather than payday lenders. | :22:57. | :23:07. | |
Mr Hunt likes winning political points with regards to blaming the | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
Labour Party, perhaps we should start looking more into the | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
financial organisations that made significant payments to the | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
Conservative party and their dodgy appointments? Do you agree? He | :23:22. | :23:37. | |
cannot stop himself. They have given no donations to the Labour Party. | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
Recommendations were made which is implemented now would have uncovered | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
some of this. Last year the Chancellor and the Treasury | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
ministers spent a great deal of time lobbying Brussels to change the | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
rules and persuade the Co-op bank to take over the Lloyds branches, the | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
last three years, under your watch. Stop making cheap points about our | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
connection with the Co-op bank. We are very proud with our link with | :24:07. | :24:16. | |
the co-operative movement. Go on, Jeremy. | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
The Chancellor lobbied on behalf of the Co-op rank which is a donor to | :24:23. | :24:31. | |
the Labour Party. You say it doesn't lend money. What I actually said was | :24:32. | :24:47. | |
that we need transparency from Labour to get to the bottom of this. | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
Nearly 8 million bondholders are worrying about what will happen to | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
their savings and we need to make sure we find out the truth stop that | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
is all we are saying. I want to go onto a question that | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
affects the generations we have. Let's move on. A question from Paul | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
George. What can the government do about the | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
housing market when house prices continue to rise? This affects the | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
younger generation who cannot get on to the housing ladder, average wages | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
decreasing, house prices going up. If you look at how the world has | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
changed, when I left university until now, one of the biggest | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
changes is it is so much harder to buy a house. There are other things | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
that have got better for young people, the technology revolution | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
has made huge strides, but this is very difficult thing because | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
everybody wants to own a house rightly so. There are some big | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
challenges if we want to get this right. We need to get new housing | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
starts going again. They have got back to their 2008 levels but it has | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
been a struggle. We need to look at planning laws, and my party, the | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
government, made some controversial changes to make sure we do start | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
building houses. The biggest betrayal of young people would be if | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
we said we have got our houses now, we will not do what it takes to help | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
young people get a foot on the housing ladder. The third thing is | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
access to finance. That is why pay help to buy scheme has been | :26:32. | :26:40. | |
significant, helping 75 families every day at their home. It is true | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
it is still a real struggle. We have to do everything we can. It is | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
something that hasn't changed between the generations, that they | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
desire to own a house. Every government has a responsibility to | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
do what it can to help people take that step. | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
The man at the back. Part of the problem is the Labour | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
government of the 90s set a target of sending 50% of young people into | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
higher education. These young people cannot afford to buy a house because | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
they are coming out of university, there are not the graduate jobs they | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
need, and they are having to take jobs on a much lower level, less | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
pay, in order to be able to survive so they cannot save up the money to | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
buy a house. That is something the previous government have two out of | :27:32. | :27:43. | |
four. -- they have to answer for. So roughly speaking 7% of that age | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
group went to university, the older group. I am proud we wanted to have | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
50% going to university. We have all benefited from a university | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
education. The crisis in the housing market. Besides Ollie. -- Olly. Last | :27:59. | :28:20. | |
year there were as many housing completes as the 1920s. We need to | :28:21. | :28:29. | |
build more houses. The older side. | :28:30. | :28:38. | |
There is a shortage of land yet there are property developers | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
holding onto land for years and years waiting to maximise the prices | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
when they should be legislation that makes them start building within 12 | :28:45. | :28:52. | |
months of buying the land. Do you own a house yourself? | :28:53. | :29:01. | |
Yes. Your children, grandchildren? My children have got on the housing | :29:02. | :29:15. | |
ladder. How old are they? 44, 42. They are not here on this site of | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
the audience? This woman here. There is currently lots of three-bedroom | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
houses empty because people affected by the bedroom tax, because nobody | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
can move into them because they cannot afford them. | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
The help to buy scheme is a bit scary because you are giving more | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
people who cannot afford a house more income, jobs are not certain so | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
why would you give more people access to more money when the | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
economy is not stable, the income is not enough to pay the mortgage? | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
On the help to buy scheme, there are much more checks and balances than | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
they used to be. They used to be hundreds of schemes that would lend | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
money at 93% of the value of the house, and it is something like 40 | :30:12. | :30:23. | |
3% -- 43 products. I know what happened in Manchester is that a | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
whole load of single by Jim Holmes were bulldozed -- single bedroom | :30:29. | :30:38. | |
homes. A lot of people in Manchester have been evicted as tenants. At the | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
same time as there is money available to pay them to keep them | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
in tenancies, unlike stop what, where tenants have been evicted | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
under this system -- unlike Stockport. There is central | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
government funding of ?180 million that can help people through this. | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
If I can just say about the housing thing, I was really interested to | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
see Ed Balls today was admitting Labour kind of screwed up on this. | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
When I was working at backward shelter -- Shelter trying to lobby | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
the government to build houses we got nowhere. It is good to hear Ed | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
Balls finally admit housing was a big failure by the Labour | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
government. I think it was. We are building and have finally managed to | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
start building more affordable homes. For the first time we are | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
getting more social housing after it was sold off by successive Labour | :31:40. | :31:51. | |
and Tory governments. That is not my experience. What about what Ed Balls | :31:52. | :32:01. | |
said? He said we should have built more houses when we were in | :32:02. | :32:11. | |
government. We had to bring those appalling properties and social | :32:12. | :32:13. | |
housing up to decent standard. We should have got more housing but we | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
did not. If we build more houses, it means more builders getting into | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
work, paying National Insurance and tack 's. We need to have a law that | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
says you use it or you lose it. We say to property developers hoarding | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
the land, unless you use the development plans you have to build | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
a housing, we will take it away from you and build on the land ourselves. | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
You mentioned earlier that you are getting to the stage where people in | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
their 30s are only able to get onto the housing ladder for the first | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
time. I was 30 when I got onto the housing ladder and I entered the | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
housing market a mortgage rate of 10%. And the reason why I did that, | :32:57. | :33:05. | |
and a lot of others did, too, was a simple fact of mobility. We were | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
willing to go where the job market was. I was caught up in the | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
north-east and had to move to London to get a job in order to get onto | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
the housing market. I do not see too much of that mobility in the | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
marketplace. Our Usain young people will not move? -- are you saying? We | :33:23. | :33:37. | |
do move. We move around all the time. If where we go to university | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
there are not jobs, we have to go to another city. We move around. You do | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
not necessarily see it, but we do it. Surely basic economics tells us | :33:46. | :33:56. | |
when demand outstrips supply, the price goes up. Jeremy has already | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
told us we are not building enough houses. At the same time, they are | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
making it easier for people to get mortgages. Prices go up. What do you | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
think the effect will be on this generation, who cannot get on the | :34:12. | :34:20. | |
housing ladder until 38? Maybe if we adopt a more European approach. In | :34:21. | :34:31. | |
Germany, more people rent. Isn't it going to turn into a system | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
where we end up renting and the rich get richer and we put more money | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
into their pockets because we cannot get into the housing market? Do you | :34:39. | :34:47. | |
have any aspiration? I cannot afford to enter the housing market at the | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
moment so I will be forced to rent. I do not understand where the space | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
for these houses will be. We currently have an immigration | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
problem, a lack of job is. You are lending money to people, which seems | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
a statistics game for the government to make itself look better. | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
Eventually it will crash because the house prices will go down. Because | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
there are more houses, the equity will do appreciate and it will crash | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
eventually again. I have no intention of even wanting to get | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
into that. We have two very different views on that. I think the | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
answer is that we need a bit of both. We need to increase supply, | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
but also to make sure people can afford it when you increase supply. | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
We need to be brave and accept we will have to do that throughout the | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
country. I think it is perfectly possible to increase supply and | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
protect a beautiful countryside. I think there are lots of places where | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
we could be more imaginative. The NHS is, for example, sitting on a | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
lot of land which we could be much quicker at disposing of, and some of | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
that could be appropriate for housing. But I think that at the | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
heart of this is responsibility for those of us who did manage to get | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
onto the housing ladder when houses were a lot cheaper to think about | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
doing what it takes for people who are much younger, who have the same | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
dreams and aspirations we had. It does not work and it is not | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
acceptable to sit tight. I think we have to say, what are we going to | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
do? Tackling this from all directions is the only way to do | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
that. I want to look my children in the eye and say, I did what it took | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
to help you enjoy the same ambitions and aspirations that I had. 13,500 | :36:37. | :36:43. | |
houses which have permission to build in Salford, but nobody is | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
building, and the number is going up by about 2000 each year. Permission | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
is being given but nobody is building. Why not? Profit. What can | :36:53. | :37:05. | |
the government do? That is where the Help to Buy scheme can make a | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
difference. Young people would be confident that they could buy the | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
houses, and people would be confident they could build them and | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
make a profit. You can relax planning permission. If they do not | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
think it is profitable, they will not build. One problem is land | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
banking. Second, it is people not having confidence in the economy and | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
not wanting to invest in bricks and mortar. We have to use whatever | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
levers we have two persuade them. Olly Grender is right, after a | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
period of time, you could revoke the permission after five years. I am | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
saying, let's go further. Unless you start building, we will take away | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
the permission that you have. We can do it and we should. That will force | :37:55. | :38:02. | |
them to start building houses. Onto another question. Alice Sugden, | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
please. Will the reforms to the NHS do enough to prevent serious | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
failings in care such as at Stafford Hospital? Olly Grender. This week, | :38:13. | :38:24. | |
what the government has done is publish some responses to the report | :38:25. | :38:34. | |
into Mid Staffs. I am sure Jeremy Hunt will go through quite a feud in | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
detail, but I will look at one in particular which was actually in the | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
Lib Dem manifesto. It is about a UK of candour. I see this as incredibly | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
important. This is about honesty from people. When I hand my child to | :38:50. | :39:00. | |
a nursery, I expect all of the staff to be absolutely straight with me if | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
anything has gone wrong. It is exact in the same, as an elderly relative | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
goes into hospital, you want to know there is an absolute expectation on | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
both the organisation and the individuals in the organisation. | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
That goes without saying but how would what happened at Staffordshire | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
hospital be prevented? It does not go without saying. It goes without | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
saying that you think it should happen. I think that is one of the | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
reforms that will prevent things like this in future. I am confident | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
that will happen. I think, in a way, what we need to do is to start | :39:41. | :39:48. | |
celebrating the whistle-blowers. This is exactly the kind of thing we | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
expect and want, people to be honest when something has gone wrong. This | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
is exactly what did not happen in Mid Staffs. On this one particular | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
point, I have confidence. I have confidence in the others as well. We | :40:06. | :40:15. | |
had better not list the others! One of the reforms will criminalise | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
doctors and nurses for wilful neglect. Will that create a culture | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
of openness in the NHS, or a culture of fear? One of the shocking things | :40:24. | :40:36. | |
about what happened at Mid Staffs hospital was that no nurses and | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
doctors were brought to book for a very long time. In extreme cases, I | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
think it is right, if someone deliberately harms a patient. Lots | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
of doctors and nurses have said they would not want a doctor who | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
deliberately harms a patient not to meet full force of the law. What | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
doctor or nurse would ever agree with that. That is not the heart of | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
the change. The heart of the changes something different, making it | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
easier for people to speak out by giving them protection they have not | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
had before. I meet many nurses and doctors who see things they worry | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
about but then think what will happen if I speak out gesture more | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
we need to change the culture so everyone understands that we all | :41:22. | :41:27. | |
want people to speak out. Her point was about criminalising them. Are | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
you happy with his answer? Does it answer your point? I think by | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
criminalising people, other people will be scared to criminalise their | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
colleagues. So they will not whistle-blowers if they think that | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
-- they will be charged. In order for the duty of candour to really | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
work, it depends on the culture of the organisation. It really does | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
depend on that going from the top throughout the organisation. | :42:03. | :42:10. | |
Otherwise a blame culture enters. What we want, and I agree that it is | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
different, those prosecutions are different because it is where harm | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
has been done deliberately. But where there is a mistake, we have to | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
have it so that staff can put up their hand and say, I have messed | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
up. I am sorry, we have to put it right, but also we have to learn | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
from it. It is that culture of learning running through the | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
organisations that I think will make the big change. | :42:36. | :42:46. | |
On the point of criminalising neglect, I am going to qualify as a | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
doctor in a couple of months. I am wondering why is it OK for other | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
professions when they make a mistake in their job not to facing class | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
oration, but it is a completely different story for medical | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
professionals? -- not to face incarceration. If you deliberately | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
harm anyone in any profession you are subject to the law. This is | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
changing what is in common law and putting it in statute. This | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
gentleman made the point that is right. This is not about trying to | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
create more criminals, but a culture of openness. You have one of the | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
best hospitals in the country here, which is the safest hospital outside | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
London. They have done that because they have an inspiring Chief | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
Executive and chief nurse, who have created a culture where the staff | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
feel able to speak out. That is because they think if they talk | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
about an error, something is going to happen and someone will learn | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
from it. There is also another in Greater Manchester, greater | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
Manchester mental health hospital trust. I happen to be on the board. | :43:55. | :44:05. | |
We have that culture going. I think the Francis Report is a very good | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
report. Unlike Olly Grender and Jeremy, I think we should implement | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
all of the recommendations in full. Jeremy talks a great talk, but one | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
of the problems is that the evidence is that since his party joined a | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
coalition government, the number of nurses, and my source is the NHS | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
information Centre today, the number of nurses is down by 6642 since May | :44:31. | :44:38. | |
of 2010. One of the main findings of the report was that staffing levels | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
are so low that doctors and nurses led to inadequate care and lead to | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
bad things happening in Mid Staffordshire. One other thing is | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
that you can have a criminal law about wilfulness collect and | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
publicise the ratio of staff on wards, but unless you give hospitals | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
the resources and the nurses, it is talk and no action. That is what | :45:01. | :45:11. | |
needs to happen, Jeremy. Equally robust figures which you did not | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
mention are that over the last three years we have had 6600 more doctors | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
in the NHS. We have 1200 more midwives, 1000 more health visitors. | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
Yes, I am worried about the nurses going down, not in hospitals, but in | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
the community. District nursing numbers have gone down. That is | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
wrong and that is why we are making the changes this week, which means | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
everyone has to publish the number of nurses, so we know if there is | :45:38. | :45:44. | |
safe staffing. You don't actually have anywhere to go, because your | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
party opposed the public enquiry. You did not want to have the | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
enquiry. It is true that Andy Burnham decided not to have a public | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
enquiry and we decided to have it. That is why we are making, adopting | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
so many of these recommendations today. What has happened as a result | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
of that enquiry you did not want? Over the last year, hospitals have | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
decided to recruit 4000 more nurses than they were planning 12 months | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
ago. I think the climate is changing. I agree we need safe | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
staffing in our wards, but it is not about one number for every ward. It | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
is about a ward by ward basis, transparency and people feeling | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
comfortable to speak out when they see something wrong. | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
Several years ago the NHS carried out one of the biggest job | :46:40. | :46:48. | |
evaluation surveys. Many nurses were put onto management grades which is | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
why a lot of nurses disappeared, on the face of it. Now a ward sister | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
isn't a ward sister, she is called a ward manager so she is not counted | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
in the nursing numbers. So the numbers are understated? We may not | :47:03. | :47:10. | |
have lost that number of nurses. You can talk about statistics all | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
night, but the question was about whether the reforms the government | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
are implementing will help. One of the root causes of the report said | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
the management at Stafford Hospital were pushing to meet government | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
targets and to try and get foundation status, that is why they | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
were ignoring patients, they were more focused on getting targets. The | :47:36. | :47:43. | |
question is, will the reforms help, wouldn't it be better removing | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
politicians from the NHS, no offence intended, so there cannot be this | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
constant reorganisation and change going on? | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
We have got to go onto another point. | :47:58. | :48:07. | |
It is about ensuring the care is wrapped around the individual. That | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
is why the Care Bill is so important, it breaks down these | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
politically led institutions and places them wrapped around, so that | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
one person gets the dignity, attention, care and personal | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
attention they need. That is the foundation of the bill we are taking | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
three Parliament. The definition of success was meeting waiting times | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
target and being in financial balance and we have set up this year | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
a new chief inspector of hospitals who is going round, it will not be | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
possible to be a good or outstanding hospital unless you have good or | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
outstanding compassionate care. Patients need to be at the heart of | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
what hospitals do. Jeremy talks the good talk. Patients, if they are at | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
the heart of things, means not waiting more than four hours for | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
accident and emergency, not queueing in an ambulance waiting to get in, | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
not waiting for days rather than being at home. That is the problem | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
with the ?3 billion wasted on a reorganisation nobody wanted. Let's | :49:24. | :49:35. | |
have a question from Kelly Parker. With the UK jobless rate falling to | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
a three-year low last week, why is it that youth unemployment remains | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
above 20%? Lots of reasons. One of the things | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
we had when we were in government is a guarantee for young people, if you | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
were a graduate out of work for six months you will be guaranteed a job. | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
The government idea of getting young people into work is just to get them | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
stacking shelves, it is in a good -- it is inadequate. You need to give | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
them skills making them attractive to employee. Apprenticeship schemes | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
will be useful to the employer, the young person. Focus on 50% who don't | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
go to university, vocational skills that will make them desirable to | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
employers. Give young people the skills to make them attractive to | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
employers. One of the great tragedies is the wasted talent | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
amongst young people. I am in favour of a future jobs guarantee for a | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
young person, if you are out of work for a year we will guarantee you a | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
job with an employer, we will subsidise that, so they get benefits | :50:40. | :50:49. | |
from the government, you will stop paying taxes, national insurance. | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
Can you choose the league say you can guarantee a job? -- truthfully. | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
Who are these employers? When you speak to small and medium-sized | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
lawyers is the young people don't have the skills -- employers . The | :51:08. | :51:19. | |
big concern and criticism is people from overseas taking these jobs. | :51:20. | :51:27. | |
I am doing a four-year degree with a sandwich course right now and I am | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
in my second year so looking for my placement. I go on websites where | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
there are 70 placements for accounting and finance, only seven | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
of those are written in north-west, they are all in London. | :51:42. | :51:49. | |
Somebody earlier was saying move, would you move? | :51:50. | :51:57. | |
I would . This all comes down to the downturn | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
of industry, it has been eroded year after year. If we started, for | :52:04. | :52:10. | |
example with nuclear energy, if we bought nuclear energy and the | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
manufacture of nuclear plants back from a French company that would | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
provide jobs. Employment is rising but employment among the young has | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
stood still. You are always talking about young | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
people needing skills and if they have got skills there will be a job. | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
The jobs are not there. I have got a 28-year-old with a Masters degree, | :52:37. | :52:44. | |
and she has got lots of skills, she has worked in Budapest, on the West | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
Bank, she has worked for UNESCO in Paris for six-month is unpaid, she | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
is now working in Japan on a three month contract teaching English. She | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
cannot get a job in the UK. Use a move, the only time she has ever | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
been able to move, she still cannot get a job that will pay for housing, | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
so she goes and illegally sublets because that is the only way she can | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
afford somewhere to live and a lot of her friends are in the same | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
situation. They are trapped, they cannot move, the jobs are not there | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
Trapped. Trapped. Jeremy Hunt? | :53:23. | :53:38. | |
I was going to come to her point and explain the issue but I want to say | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
this, it is not government that creates jobs, it is the private | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
sector. Over the last three years 400,000 businesses have been | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
created. That is why we have 1.1 million more people in employment | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
than three years ago. There are some signs the tide is turning for youth | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
unemployment. If you asked me what the single thing we could do that | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
would make a big difference in this area, it is to make sure the skills | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
people leave college or university with relevant to the jobs market. We | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
did have a system where sometimes people getting certificate that they | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
were not actually matched very well with the kind of things employers | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
wanted. She seemed to have every qualification under the sun. | :54:25. | :54:31. | |
I have been with her around Preston opening series and they say we do | :54:32. | :54:41. | |
not want another one. -- CVs. We have let them down. What they come | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
up with is a qualification that needs to be valued by employers. | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
What is worrying is we have a situation where an opponent is | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
falling, jobs are going up but it is not making a big dent in youth | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
unemployment. We need to look at the education system and vocational | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
education and apprenticeships. Nothing is worse than that | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
experience of looking for a job and not being able to find it but in | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
this area, the Northwest, there was better news. For instance, HS2, | :55:15. | :55:25. | |
electrification. The airport development is bringing jobs, but | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
also for greater Manchester there is a 5.8 million investment and it is | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
specifically about helping people to get into work, young people in | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
particular to get into work. As I said before, apprenticeships in this | :55:41. | :55:46. | |
area, I am sorry that doesn't apply to your incredibly qualified | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
daughter, but apprenticeships have gone up 90% since Labour were in | :55:52. | :56:00. | |
power. I am sorry, since Labour left power. This is an important -- | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
important point with regard to the 50% that don't go to university, the | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
gentleman raise that issue earlier, Ed Miliband talk about the 50% and | :56:11. | :56:20. | |
he describes it as the rest, the people that almost don't matter | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
ordered. We do count those of us who didn't go to university and the | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
people that have done other ways to get into work. | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
I want to bring in some people affected by this you haven't spoken | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
yet. Don't stick your hand if you have spoken already. | :56:40. | :56:46. | |
You say implement has gone up but what kind of jobs? Zero hours where | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
people get 15 hours per week? Agency jobs? I have got employment agencies | :56:51. | :57:00. | |
saying can you go down tomorrow only to find out it is a one-day | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
contract. It is all right bashing Conservative | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
policies and agree there are problems with part-time jobs but | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
where will you get money from? The ads is borrowed money. Where will | :57:16. | :57:22. | |
you get money from? Somebody who hasn't spoken from the older side. | :57:23. | :57:34. | |
The jobs are fixed. Who can live on part-time jobs? The figures are all | :57:35. | :57:43. | |
fixed. Are you sympathetic to the youth who cannot find jobs? | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
Yes. The reason is people cannot get jobs | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
the economy is structured wrongly. If you pay thousands of pounds to | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
somebody pushing a mouse around a desk, and give the money to young | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
people they will gain experience and we will all benefit. | :58:05. | :58:15. | |
On that note we have two and. Our time is up. We will be in Falkirk | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
next week, the Scottish government is posting its case for | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
independence. The week after that we are in London. That is on the day of | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
the prebudget report. If you want to come to either programme go to our | :58:33. | :58:44. | |
website or you can call us. If you are listening to Radio five Live you | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
can continue the debate, but my thanks to our panel, Tim Stanley and | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
Joan Bakewell couldn't get here because the trainer didn't deliver | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
them we will have them some other day. Thank you to this panel and all | :58:58. | :59:08. | |
of you, over 60, and under 30. Thank you all very much, good night. | :59:09. | :59:14. |