05/02/2012 Reporting Scotland

Good morning. And coming up: Nick Clegg lost another Cabinet minister

on Friday and his party's poll ratings are in single figures. One

third of flights at Heathrow today are cancelled and that was before

it even started snowing. Why? The Transport Secretary is here for a

Sunday interview. With the government about to

consult on gay marriage, they will With limited cash and growing

demand, do you agree with the government's spending priorities?

The Finance Secretary John Swinney tells us about his budget, its

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1528 seconds

My personal view is that the expression of commitment that is

made in gay marriages is one that I would like the Church's to

recognise. I'm not sure what the definition of a dinosaur is.

are not with the times. I think there is an eternal provision here,

which I would say as a believer. I think civil partnership, as

constituted, I would prefer that to be extended, but that is another

debate, but that provides the legal equality that is being sought.

people believe that civil weddings and so will partnerships are pretty

much the same thing - a marriage in all but name. We did make a

difference? Yes, because marriages between a man and a woman. You say

it is for the charges, but if this law comes in in the European

legislation, the Church could be forced. I disagree, the legislation

can and would make it very clear under the Human Rights Act that it

would simply not be possible to bring a case against a church which

had chosen not to allow a same-sex marriage to take place. We are not

talking about forcing Church is to allow it same-sex marriages. Would

you like to withdraw the word, dinosaur? It is a challenge for the

churches, and they have to move with the times and it is something

I hope they will seriously consider. Some of them are moving with the

Times, and some are allowing gay marriages, isn't the Church of

England - which is in some trouble in terms of its membership - known

to be left behind? -- going to be left behind? In charge has its

doctrine and its teaching, and that is the ground on which we stand.

Most churches would take the same position on this matter because of

the long-standing understanding of what managers. Most people, most

opinion... Most people, historically, all is allowed that

marriage was between a man and a woman. But the public consensus has

changed. The polls indicate otherwise. People are not so

concerned about this. If a same-sex couple want to be together, good

luck to them. The question is whether that is described as

marriage. There is one important point - the judges need to make a

better case about what managers. -- the churches. We're talking about a

civil marriage and not a religious marriage. We will have to leave it

Welcome to the Sunday politics in Scotland, coming up: it is budget

week on Wednesday. Holyrood will pass one of the toughest in its

history. We will ask the Finance Secretary about his choices. With

councils on the front line of the services you get and their main

elections on the way, we will be looking at the key battlegrounds

beginning with Glasgow. With the top of the referendum, not

much attention has been paid to another matter of immediate

importance, the budget for the financial year starting in April.

It passed one hurdle on the day that the plans were set out for the

referendum. On Wednesday it is brought back to Holyrood for the

final vote. Perhaps with the loyalty of the backbenchers, there

is no doubt of the outcome, but what about the outcome for public

services? Our correspondent has been looking at the numbers.

The time was when the numbers only went up, and the money was splashed

around the public services. John Swinney cobbled together deals over

four years. Then came the spending squeeze, swiftly followed by an SNP

majority. John Swinney now has all the votes he needs but how is he

using them? The squeeze is the tightest that

has been. Spending is down by 7%. Next year and two years after that,

spending will be down by more than 5%. Next year's Holyrood budget is

being squeezed by 1.5%. The cumulative pain is building. Not

everyone is feeling that pain equally. The budget facing MSPs on

Wednesday, road spending gets a boost, as the Bill comes in for the

4th crossing, universities have a good deal and students with their

support Bill -- supports money going up. There is a squeeze on

public sector pensions, as capital budget cuts which are hitting

housing hard, and that has been a pressure point, and further

education colleges, and this at a time when training for jobs is a

priority. The councils are in line for one of the biggest cuts. On the

tax side, shops selling alcohol and debacle will have to pay �30

million next trying health tax next year. That is not popular with

supermarkets or the Tories. There is a continuing pay freeze for most

public sector workers. Also, a council tax freeze. This year sees

the start of what is billed as a radical change in the way that

money is spent in Scotland. John Swinney has earmarked �500 million

in what is called preventative spending. The idea is to spend

their early to prevent more expensive problems arising later.

Supporting very young children, in the eye -- with the idea it will

save money later on. John Swinney has all the votes he needs but he

still hopes to win the support of opposition parties if only to

provide political cover for the painful cuts involved. His

opponents have highlighted housing and college spending, but they have

declined to save wear more cuts should come. Since the Budget was

published last September, John Swinney has �130 million in

addition. He has some modest room for manoeuvre and the chance to

hand out a few sweeties. Joining us from our Dundee studio

is hour Finance Secretary, John Swinney. What are you still

negotiating at this stage? Over the course of the last couple of weeks,

I have spoken to the opposition parties and listened to their. In

the Stage 1 debate, ten days ago. The main things are in relation to

college funding, housing infrastructure and some of the

sustainable travel budgets which are available as part of the

government's settlement. I am looking carefully at those points

and my interest is in creating a parliamentary consensus around the

Budget proposals because I think it is in every one's interests in

having steered priorities, delivering economic recovery.

But you do not need their support, you will have the final say. One

interpretation would be that you why negotiating because you need

political cover. My motivation is to provide the broadest agreement.

If you look at the budget I put forward as the finance minister in

a minority government, they were supported on different occasions by

different political parties because I was able to create some consensus.

There is the question of what approach the opposition parties

take. It is often a great interest in proposing new ways to spend

money but not a lot of enthusiasm to save where the money will come

from so I am working with the opposition parties, because we made

clear when the majority SNP government was created, that we

would still work to create consensus across the political

spectrum. A key area for the opposition is the cut in spending

to the colleges. You could make up that money. I knew indicating this

morning that Devon-based -- they feel so strongly about that, do you

accept that if we are basing our economic recovery on a well skilled

workforce, cutting the college budget by that much does not make

sense? The Government has put in place a

range of support for young people trying to get into the labour

market, we have a fund its 25,000 Modern apprenticeships for eight

here of the spending review, and we have given a guarantee to every 16

to 19-year-old that they would have access to training or educational

opportunity if they are unable to secure a work of their own activity.

Since my budget in September, I had put in �15 million to assist the

college sector to undertake the reform the government believes is

necessary. Last week, I allocated a further �5 million to support

employability programmes through the college sector, so we are

putting extra resources into the college sector but I continue to

listen to the points put forward by the opposition. Should we expect

more money going into the college sector? It is an area that is still

under consideration and discussion. There is a material change in the

government's budget has since it was announced in September with 50

million in the college transformation fund and the extra

money which we announced last week. I think they will be beneficial to

delivering our objectives. If you look at what you can deliver,

the living wage is obviously of critical importance for many local

council workers. We know you want a living wage imposed across the

councils and that is happening across government departments, but

the local government committee has pointed out that you cannot require

that to happen in councils in Scotland and the vast majority do

not do that and say they cannot in the future. The living wages very

important from the government's perspective because we think it is

vital to put energy and effort into tackling the issue of low pay in

public services. We have applied the living pay across the areas

that we control but you are right in saying I cannot impose that

across local government in Scotland. But there are a number of local

authorities interested in taking forward this commitment. It is an

issue that I have to leave fundamentally to the decisions of

local authorities but I would encourage them to take that step.

If we look at the bigger picture, you have suggested that Scotland

would be better off, I economically, people would be better off,

individually, in an independent Scotland. How much do you think, in

cash terms? Scotland as a country, as we had access to our resources,

would be placed at the ranking of six in the most prosperous nations.

That would be a significant increase on our present position.

The reason for that argument is to demonstrate that Scotland is a

strong country ergonomically, we contribute more to the United

Kingdom than we get back, and perhaps the fact we are seeing

these messages put forward and deployed by the Scottish Government

is perhaps why be in -- the opinion polls demonstrate support for

Scottish independence is rising as the government puts forward a very

positive agenda about the opportunities that exist for

Scotland. One of the arguments at the heart of the debate is of

delivering greater prosperity to the people of Scotland. I am

interested in having access to the powers and responsibilities to

create more opportunities for the people of Scotland, more employment

opportunities, and making a country more successful.

You were talking about people, the Sunday Times poll, which puts

support for independence at the same level as support for the

remaining in the Union. But what I am getting at, what will this mean

for individuals, financially? Can you put a figure on it? Would it be

�500 per year. The evidence suggests people are interested in

the prospects and the opportunities that would arise from Scotland

becoming an independent country. The example I cited in the letter

the other night was the fact that if we had access to our resources,

Scotland would be ripped -- ranked as the sixth most wealthy country.

That is an indication in the level of growth and wealth in Scotland if

we had the ability to put our own resources to the best effect in

securing the best future for Scotland. That is in marked

contrast to the economic performance people were accustomed

to as part of the United Kingdom, where Scotland's economy has told

the rest of the UK because we have not been able to use our resources

to our advantage. Can I ask you about something else. Almost 60,000

EU nationals living in Scotland will be able to vote in the

referendum that 750,000 Scots living south of the border will not.

Do you think that is reasonable? The franchise issue is important

for the referendum, and the approach we have taken his two

essentially manner of the franchise that elected the Scottish

Parliament in May of not -- in May of last year. And the elections

which established the Scottish Parliament in 1997 Fall --. Many of

these individuals, I can think of my own constituents, army unit

nationals who have lived here for 10 or 20 years. They are able to

make a contribution to Scotland and this is their home. The one

difference we would put forward in the franchise is that we would

extend the franchise to 16 and 17- year-old to make sure that young

people whose future is entwined with the issues around the

referendum would have the opportunity to express an opinion.

Thank you very much. Local councils deliver many of the

key services we get. May's council elections will not be overshadowed

by other polls on the same day. One of the biggest battles will be in

Glasgow where Labour will be fighting to retain control. In the

first of a series of films, here is 19190 - at the Battle of George

Square. The need is that there has been to a revolution outside of the

city chambers. Another battle has taken place this year. The SNP

hopes that Glaswegian Botha's will bring about a peaceful revolution.

Labour has a majority. 46 councillor's to the SNP's 20. It is

quite a challenge from SNP to become the largest group and both

parties will campaign passionately. We want to or for openness,

transparency. We want to engage with people. We want them to know

the we're listening. We have done more than any other UK Council to

tackle unemployment. These are the kinds of issues which are important

to local people. But with a Labour out of power at Holyrood and

Westminster City Council has taken on an extra importance for the

party. It has been a powerful critic of the Scottish Government

in the past. For example on the council tax frieze were the cutting

off class sizes. Glasgow is a very important to the Labour Party. They

have controlled it on their own since the 1930s. As the largest

city in the country it is an important place for the party who

have traditionally done extremely well here. Losing Glasgow would be

a major symbolic defeat for the party. Do you agree Scotland should

be an independent country? But is the SNP thinking about more than

just who can do best for Glasgow? A powerful Labour council would also

be a powerful voice in the No campaign. Under mining labour in

the City can only be good for their SNP in their build-up to the

referendum. Like many battles of the true importance of this one may

only become apparent in time. If the council falls to their SNP it

could be a milestone in the current Scottish war of independence. I'll

now joined by the professor of politics from Strathclyde

University, John Curtice. What kind of messages will be coming out of

these campaigns? How can you hold a national line, locally? It will be

an intriguing campaign. Very true. But it will not just the national

poll, there will be important local issues. For example, the trams

fiasco in Edinburgh. That is another fascinating local issue.

The Liberal Democrats may be on a hiding to nothing there. But beyond

that, are what we are looking for our messages about the degree to

which the SNP have retained the quite substantial levels of support

they achieved 12 months ago. 45% in the polls. If they manage that we

can certainly anticipate them making gains. These elections were

last fought in 2007 when the SNP were only just ahead of Labour in

the Holyrood poles and slightly behind them in the local elections.

They have certainly got the increases that we saw in a Holyrood

election. So we can anticipate them picking up some councils, but

Glasgow would not be top of my list. Places like Dundee, Perth,

Midlothian, these are easier targets. But because Glasgow is

such a big prize everybody is focusing on it. It is relatively

easy for their SNP to denied Labour a majority in Glasgow. Six seats it

would do that. But on the other hand, having overall control of

requires the SNP to have 18 extra seats. That is a very substantial

requirement for them. Probably somewhat higher than the kind of

swings we have been seen recently. A Sunday Times poll today says that

support for independence is that 47%. This falls other polls where

the SNP would get an incredibly good solid figures. What are the

key points are to take from this? This is it rebuild Paul to simply

ask the question, do you agree Scotland become -- should become an

independent country? So it is quite clear that if you are asked the

Alex Salmond question on a Survey it is getting higher levels of

support and Surveys which do not ask that question. But this poll

also provided another question involving devolution a maximum. So

often with these things the truth lies in the nature of the question

being asked. But the question is important in the context of this

Survey. And clearly it is resulting in higher levels of support for

independence. But the key will be it the question and answers at the

end of the Three's your long referendum campaign. -- three years.

The Scottish Government is launching a campaign to encourage

women to cut down on their drinking. It is an attempt to change

attitudes and as part of the campaign a new phone app will

demonstrate how drinking speeds up the ageing process. It is hoped

that the up well short women into Tenants with a history of anti-

social behaviour could lose their housing rates. Changes were made to

how social housing is managed in Scotland. Law abiding tenants's

lives are often blighted by In the 5th round of the Scottish

Cup Rangers face Dundee United. The Dundee United manager reckons that

Rangers are still a difficult team to overcome despite losing their

And now the weather. A better day for the second half of the weekend.

The best of the sunshine will be across Aberdeenshire and Fife. More

cloud across the West and showers will become more persistent.

Feeling less colder than yesterday with lighter winds. Chillier in the

Back to Isabel. Thank you. It looks like the main focus at Holyrood

this week will be on the money. To help me look ahead to the week I am

joined by two economic correspondents. Good morning to you

both. Should we expect more money to go to colleges, having held the

interview with John Swinney? It was very hard to tell full stops he is

good at informing you at progress that has been made but leafing out

the possibility of other things. There is a significant

restructuring on this new regional model. Given that he has a bit more

room for manoeuvre in the Budget next year I just wonder if he might

want to defuse some of that. It is easy to make the link between

skills that are learned at college and the need for young people to

find work and boost the economy. Where should he be looking, if he's

going to review anything? Has a bad idea is to shift money from revenue

into capital full stock -- has Bhagat idea. He wants his capital

spend up by 25%. That is to give the economy a boost and that is

where he is focusing. The long-term view that if he puts more money

into capital spend it then the shovels a world charm the earth.

That causes pain of for frontline services. Underlying his aims are

an attempt to save money, do things efficiently. Now I nor all

politicians say that and it is part of the game but remember that this

is his 5th of budget. He has gotten far down the line. I worked in

higher education for 25 years. There is a degree of duplication in

the provision of courses in further education. He is trying to

streamline and that. The money that is he is saving, he has done very

well to keep spending going in universities and making sure that

we still don't have tuition fees, and that is very important. In the

bigger picture, do you think river carries the can for the cuts will

lose? That has always been the story of politics. If you go down

that road, if you are seen to be imposing some kind of cuts, you

will pay a price at the polls. George is correct to say that they

are attempting to protect a capital budget that has been forcibly

shrunk by the London government. But they are doing and that by

taking out some of the spending from the kind of services that

people notice. There is a new Forth crossing going up. They feel --

people know a service that they depend on and feel it when it is

being trimmed. Bankers bonuses. We are apoplectic this time every year.

What must happen to change this? is an industry which Elms super

profits and politicians can no more nor all the light but in a few

years the bonuses will be even higher. -- moan all they like. I

agree with the vast majority of the general public that these bonuses

are not fit for purpose and the banks take undue risks which we

have just lived through the catastrophe of. So let's use the

tax net to claw the money back. Would you like to see the SNP

government be a little more vocal about taxing bonuses are getting

rid of them altogether? The SNP have always had a good social

democratic position. That is the way to go. We keep on hearing that

something must happen but it is only tinkering around the edges.

What must really be done? It is an interesting dynamic. The banks are

on the back foot. Public opinion is a very strongly against the kind of

packages that people are now getting in banking. Even 20 years a

go this was never on the horizon. It is a very modern phenomenon. It

is just to whether the politicians, at Westminster in the first

instance - at least in the current context quiz -- weather politicians